tundexweb:

@Mizmycoli and others that care to know.I have not and not ready to tell her the errors and inconsistencies of both faiths,especially that of their books neither have I tell her that they are possibly man-made.What I have done so far is discrediting the christian theology of God and beliefs in favour of islam...

Your sister is 15 years old. She's already a young adult. You shouldn't insult her intelligence by giving her partial truths. Tell her your full truth and trust that she is, like you, capable of discernment. The only reason not to expose the flaws of all religions to her is if you sense that it will jeopardise yours or her relationship with your parents, especially if they are still financially responsible for you both. Otherwise, hiding the truth from her isn't protecting her, it is damaging her!!

Bear in mind that you are probably not the only person with whom your sister interacts in her daily existence, so just as you have influence on her, so do many other people. Ultimately, you cannot stop her from becoming/doing whatever she is going to become/do. As her brother, the best guidance you can give to your sister is helping her to realise that with or without religion, there will always be consequences for every action. So she should ask herself what the consequence of anything she wants to do is before she does it. Other than that, you are mostly powerless over how she turns out, and you will be far more relaxed if you didn't try to project your own moral compass on her just because she is your sister.

Live and let live!!

tintingz:

Do some organizational laws surpass some of our constitutional rights?

Nope.

Again, did she achieve her goal of being a lawyer now? If she had comply for just FEW HOURS when she was called to bar and became an active lawyer won't her protest carry more weight?

Your question is hasty. She still has her whole life ahead of her.

Using the brain positively is not a crime!

Agreed, but what constitutes positive usage is relative. You cannot impose your own personal yardsticks on another person.

And I heard she was used as bait by some fellow Muslims to start the brouhaha, promising her they will back her up.

I heard Gina Rinehart is my mother.

The court in Nigeria is a body on it own with rules and regulations, she's not forced to join law school, any rules in that body will surpass some of her constitutional rights(she knows this)

I don't think you understand that courts can be challenged. So if there were a rogue organization that legalized murder within its walls, it shouldn't be challenged because its rules preponderate the constitution? Please stop repeating that erroneous viewpoint. No rule surpasses the constitution.

and besides they didn't prevent her from practicing her religion(she still has full right to her faith), she was just told to remove her hijab for some few hours when called to bar.

Her hijab is part of her religion.

I hope the courtroom will be more liberal to all religion and tradition(if Firdaus win the case) can't wait seeing masquerade lawyers.

Me too!

nonut:

*yawns* same old repetitive lines.

Wait...lemme search my diss repository for a more entertaining yap...
Sorry, all I found was a picture of your brain.

nonut:

Oh! I got no time for a guy who keeps repeating himself like a broken record.

If you've got no time why do you keep farting your brain out?

It's like you're learning on the job.

Yup, and you make it so easy. All I have to do is call out your fart brain.

When there's an improvement, I'll give you a befitting reply.

If I change fart to flatulence, will I get a befitting reply? Pleeeease! I'm super desperate for your acknowledgment..pretty please

For now, I can't go back and forth with you saying the same thing, cos you're comebacks are dry.

As dry as your flatulence infested brain?

You should read your comments, it sounds like something a primary school pupil would write.

Just reread my comments...I sound like someone responding to fart attack

Lame modafocker.

Dammit! You got me!! Your moda just can't keep her mouth shut, can she?

nonut:

Last weak attempt at getting back at me. So lame.

You're beneath my strong attempts ...but no, that wasn't the last. We're just getting started bruv!

Took you long enough.

Yeah! Surprised no one loses sleep over farts?

Crawl back into the hole you came in from.

I love my hole, but fiddling with your fart brain is a far more amusing proposition, so no...good morrrrrrning fart brain!

Guys who bring other guys down just to look good in front of females are nothing but losers.

I agree! However, there's nothing left in you to bring down. You've reached rock bottom, hence, your fart brain!

nonut:

You're an idiot, ain't you?

Yup. Your mental farts dumbed me down..you should be proud of your super power!

You don't know when to let go, do you?

What!? Of course I know when to let go! ... Nah, just kidding. I admit, I'm not as good as your nyansh-brain in letting go. You make it look so easy!

You're trying too hard to impress the lady

Oh my black Jesus! You're on a streak my friend! You read me like an open book. I'm trying so hard because she's worth my every effort, you know?

but it's pretty obvious you're doing a poor job.

Thanks for your feedback, but I think the lady's one is more reliable.

shaybebaby:

He is doing an impressive job, thank you very much.

Keep your randy ass off my mention.

"Randy ass"!? Oh stop it, you durrty boy, you!

Attention seeking dumbo!

Attention grabbing fart head.

shaybebaby:

Trolling Agent?

Just helping him find his purpose in life.

shaybebaby:

I dunno, might be handy for dispersing rowdy crowds.

Nonut, don't be stingy with your mental farts. You freely shared it before, now that we ask for it, you're forming...na wa o

shaybebaby:

Where can I buy one of those?

Oya...nonut, do humanity a great service and volunteer yourself for free.

Why are you so possessive of your sister?

nonut:

You're nothing but a religious zealot. You even had to deny your religion just to post your myopic comment.
Like I said earlier, if you're not comfortable with the way things are, complain or protest.
Stop crying and wailing on Nairaland.

Lol...you're nothing but a fart dispenser.

Essy697:
oh sorry I had to quote what u said it was actually a mistake on my part no one is saying her hijab will interfere with her ability to practice her profession...What we re saying is she has no Case..In every organisation institution be it religious or whatever they ve rules nd regulations guiding dm..The Codes and Conducts of d NBA doesn't permit her to wear a Hijab dts y d wig is Dere..nd if she feels she is superior to the rules she has to be showed d exit door...dont bring religion into non religious association..similar tin happened in Osun state which almost cost confusion in d state bf it was settled..Putting off her hijab for dt period of time won't deny her access to Heaven...Even Allah won't support her on this...U Muslims won't see anything wrong in what she did just becos u guys ve bin clouded by sentiments..

You're right, I don't see anything wrong in what she did, but I am not a Muslim. The sentimental party here is the person who assumes I am Muslim simply because I am defending the right of a Muslim to freely practice her preferred profession without compromising on her belief.

Diademk07:


How does not wearing Arabic Hijab interfere with state transactions?

It doesn't. What's your point?

nonut:

Tell that to the judge who would rule against this crap.
If you guys want special provisions made for you because you're Muslims, write a letter to lawmakers.

I'm not a Muslim. Nevertheless, the fact that you think asking for a discriminatory rule to be abolished is "special provisions" is staggeringly tone deaf.

Some born again Christians are made to wear the NYSC trousers even though it stands against everything they believe in, but they have to do it cos it's the law.

I will be just as pleased to stand with any born again who wishes not to wear trousers if it violates their religious right. In that case, either NYSC should be scrapped or made to respect the religious diversity in the country. PERIOD!

First if she's allowed to wear it once, next she'll put it on in a courtroom and claim it's her right.

So what if she puts it on in courtroom? How will this affect her ability to carry out her responsibilities?

You Muslims should try and be peaceful and stop trying to make a mountain out of a molehill.
The other day Muslims in Nigeria were protesting about something that doesn't concern them in anyway.
Something between US, Israel and Palestines.
But Muslims in Nigeria found a way to make it about them.
You guys should embrace peace and stop raising unnecessary alarm over nothing.

Stick to the issue and stop farting straw men all over!

Diademk07:


Funny enough, islam permit no formal education for women!

Let her go and contest women right to practising sharia law before coming here to spout nonsense.


As for some women that loves covering their head in their call to bar, 'gele' should suffice for them because we're proper africa men, not arabs!

Gosh you must have an enormous straw bank, because I haven't seen this many straw men since crows ruled the world!

tintingz:
Ok, when a masquerade believer wear mask to courtroom, a Muslim were a turban, santa claus believer wear santa cap, cele person wear white cap to courtroom, Sango believer wear cowries, won't that be a good Halloween party?

Maybe lawyers need a little Halloween spirit in their workplace to infuse some life in their otherwise drab profession.

Nigeria lawmakers knows the people and society, they know the level of religion in the society, this is how it can be controlled in organizations, some laws in organizations can surpass some of your constitutional rights.

This rule wasn't made by Nigerian lawmakers, it was created by mentally colonised lawyers. The rules made by Nigerian lawmakers are unequivocal in their eschewment of discrimination.

I didn't say she shouldn't fight for her right, I'm saying she should be wise about it, she should join the member then take the positive action, now that she's not call to bar, who looses?

You're entitled to your opinion on how this should have been addressed. I have a lot of admiration for the lady for not acquiescing to such negative pressure. I hope she has the patience to see it all the way through.

Maybe I was wrong here using society, I should have used organization(she willingly joined).

You can fight for what will benefit your ideology, not when you join an organization that has rules.

She isn't imposing her ideology on any organisation. She is fighting against a discriminatory rule that prevents her from practicing her preferred profession without compromising on her religious beliefs, and I am sure history will be on her side.

Geist:
This is what I am saying. The council of legal education in Nigeria certify that one is qualified to be called to bar. The council of benchers however do the calling to bar. They were the ones who prevented the Lady from answering her call and not the council of legal education. The Link I provided up there clearly states the qualification by the council of legal education as one amongst other requirements for the council of benchers to call prospective practicing lawyers to bar. In all I get what you're saying. The only way I see her winning this though is if she proves that the dress code is not a requirement by the NBA

Okay, thanks for the clarification. I am sure her claim isn't that NBA's rule isn't discriminatory. As far as I know, she is directly challenging the legality of such a rule in the first place.

Maezara:
Perfect. You believe that the rules should be dynamic and flexible, not fixed and rigid---should be more considerate of the values, feelings, and interests of the people it's being applied to, as long as accommodating those values, feelings and interests does not harm other particular interests in the system, or the collective interest itself.
Now, that's an enlightened take that we should all consider.

That's a great summary, thanks!

I'd say, if that's how it's going down, then this idea should also be applicable to private firms and organizations, since no matter how private they are, they're still a node of the society, and it's the collective that provides the atmosphere, framework and environment for the existence and operation of those firms.

I am tending towards agreement here, however, stretching this argument to include private organisations is a formidable minefield. One which I haven't thought through.

Honestly, this is the deeper part where the debate should be---not the Hijab and Firdaus matter we've been flogging all day. The problem is that for others, there are no strict rules concerning dressing in their religions, whereas, there is for the Muslims. So, on face value, when the Hijabi's demand for that right, while others are NOT demanding same, it looks like a demand for special right, and it becomes offensive to us---because we don't think TOO FAR (those among us who do are the few gifted ones).

Although, I can't see through your eyes, I think we're seeing eye to eye. I get your point now.

We see eye to eye.

tintingz:
U.S courtroom has limit to how lawyers should dress, laywers can't dress beyond corporate suit or outfit(not sure tho), the reason I said it will disorganize the courtroom in Nigeria is because Nigeria society is filled with religious/traditional people, imagine the rate of religious people in Nigeria courtroom, is that same in U.S? Do people in U.S take religion and tradition serious?

What is your point? That US is not nearly as liberal as it should be, therefore Nigeria should not be liberal? Saying liberal dress code will disorganise the courtroom is just your own speculation. There is not a shred of evidence that backs your claim up!

What if it fail, hijab is still not approved in bar, what then is next? What she should have done is comply with dress code,

If it fails, then at least she can say she fought for something she believes in! So what? People should shriek from fighting for their rights because of the fear of failure? This type of mentality is one of the more unfortunate antithesis to progress.

join the member and take positive action. Hijab is not something that beneficial to the society, it's only beneficial to her ideology.

So what if hijab is only beneficial to her ideology? Why should society deny her the benefits (real or imagined) of her ideology if it does nothing to harm society? The rule is simple: Live and let live!

Geist:
http://www.nigeria-law.org/Legal%20Practitioners%20Act.htm#BodyOfBenchers Please read section 4. Note that section 4b talks about the certificate given by the Council of Legal Education in Nigeria.

The council of legal education in Nigeria are the administrators of the Law school man, with exactly the same function as your university senate members. I seriously don't know what you're trying to argue here!

Just read the whole thing.

Maezara:
Lol. We're on the same page. Now you get the point of my earlier question, and you just gave me your answers to it.

Now, the idea is that you're not opposed to uniformity, but also want the accommodation of religious diversity---people should be able to put on whatever is SACRED to them [which means you're NOT making exception for the Hijab alone]. And we should only DRAW THE LINE when it is impractical for their profession.

Do I get you now?

Yes you do! I was not making exception for the hijab, it just so turns out that the challenger in this case is a hijabi, and I support her challenge.

P.S. Maezara, apologies if I came across as abrasive. My communication skill deteriorates as an exponential function of the number of people I'm responding to. I'll eat one unripe banana as atonement.

Geist:
Yes they certify but they don't do the calling. Do they?

Yes they do! Again, I implore you to look up the legal education Act!

tintingz:
I agree she has right to wear her hijab under secular right(it depends) but I will disagree if she violated the dressing code of the courtroom because it's against her religion, reason because this might disorganized everything about the court house, imagine a Catholic wearing her veil to the bar, an ifa worshipper wearing her white gele, cele lady wearing her white cap and so on.

If this just and fairness can be allowed in the court house(that anybody can wear thier religious, traditional attire) then, I've no problem with Firdaus protest.

U.S for example don't really have dress code for lawyers, if Nigeria constitution wants to adopt U.S system, I've no problem with that.

I don't get how flexible dress code would disorganise the courthouse man. I would very much want an ifa worshipper, a veiled catholic nun and a cele lady who are qualified lawyers to practice their professions with their choices of attire if they feel so strongly about it. I simply don't share your suggestion this would somehow cause the courtroom to be disorganised. You cited the example of the liberal rules in U.S., but you didn't show that the courtrooms in U.S. are disorganised, so your point is weak on this occasion.

Her move is not wise and not beneficial.

She has created a nationwide debate. People, including our most erudite legal experts and opinion leaders for and against have been talking about it for days. If I were her, I would feel a partial sense of accomplishment. There is no doubt that this would be challenged in court with the level of exposure it has garnered, and we will get unequivocal clarity once and for all. I couldn't think of a wiser and more beneficial action. I for one, cannot wait to see what the outcome will be! I think Nigeria's judiciary is far more mature than we give it credit for...let's see

Geist:
I am asking about military beret. You seemed to suggest theirs had implications while the barristers head gears don't. I was just curious.

I did not suggest, I asked a question. These are two different things. Yes, some military gears have practical implications and others are ceremonial. I don't care much for their choice of uniform. Hijab is not necessarily perceived as a choice by those who wear it, so don't make baseless comparisons.

Maezara:
Trying to use another profession as an example.

It's a poor example, sorry! I am not arguing against uniformity, I am arguing for the accommodation of religious diversity in the national institutions of a secular country. The Nigerian army is just as culpable as the law school in this regard. Look, hijab is clearly something that some religious people feel very strongly about. It takes nothing, absolutely nothing away from uniformity, nor does it change the overall character of your uniform anymore than wearing a wig, or having a mole on your face does.

No. I'm making the argument that DRESSING has NO practical implications for their profession. I may choose to put on other smart clothing other than camo, and still wear my vests and other equipments. But, should that be allowed because it wouldn't affect my performance? The camo is just a piece of clothing that is worn for the sake of identity. I can even put on the camo and add another piece of clothing---like the Hijab, for example. And some of my colleagues may also decide to put on whatever they like. It wouldn't prevent them from performing their duties afterall, so, it should be allowed, right?

Please write out the full spelling of camo and tell me what it means, thanks!

But, why? What stops the others from also putting on whatever they like or is SACRED to them, if the Hijab is approved?

Nothing! People should be able to put on whatever is sacred to them, unless it is obviously impractical. You cannot send a deeperlife devotee to war in a long skirt, for instance.

See, I'm not debating the army, so forgive my reluctance to go down a rabbit hole that will only prolong this conversation unnecessarily. Firdaus is not a soldier, she is a lawyer, and she is fighting for her right in her chosen profession. If a hijabi lady who wishes to join the army comes out to fight for her right to wear the hijab while practicing her profession, I will give her my full support! Such anachronistic and discriminatory rules have no place in the national institutions of a secular country.

Geist:
I would like you to tell us the practical implications of the beret for their profession?

Answering questions with questions?

Geist:
LoL please stop this. This has nothing to do with the Nigerian Law School. The lady attended and and graduated from the Law School without any issue. This is about her call to bar. Get your facts right Agent

What are you on about? What institution is responsible for certifying her as a barrister? Please educate yourself by reading the [url=http://www.nigeria-law.org/Legal%20Education%20(Consolidation,%20etc.)%20Act.htm]Legal Education Act[/url]. Pay especial attention to section 5, where it states that "A person shall be entitled to have a qualifying certificate issued to him by the Council stating that he is qualified to be called to Bar if-"...

Maezara:
Let me get this straight. Do you mean it doesn't matter if a soldier, for example, violates the dresscode of his profession, as long as it doesn't prevent him from carrying out his bilitary duties (cause it won't---it's all about talent and skill, not appearance)?

1) What has the military profession got to do with legal profession?
2) Are you making the argument that military gear has no practical implications for their profession?

Your position seems to be that dressing in any profession should be a free-for-all, and there shouldn't be any strict codes to be adhered to, since your dressing doesn't affect your ability to perform? Is that right?

It is wrong!

nonut:

It goes against the rules and regulations of the bar.

Nigerian law school is not, and I repeat it is NOT an association! Stop bringing irrelevant arguments as if they have any bearing on the present issue.
Please read the argument I made to Geist below:

AgentOfAllah:

The argument in that link has nothing to do with this case at all. That link presents a judgement that argues against adjudicatory roles for courts in disputes regarding the rules of voluntary associations. The Nigerian law school is an institution established by the [url=http://www.nigeria-law.org/Legal%20Education.htm]Legal Education Act of Nigeria[/url]. It is stated in the link that "The Council of Legal Education runs the Nigeria Law School and all persons who have obtained a University degree in law and want to practice as lawyers in Nigeria, must attend the Nigerian Law School"
To the best of my knowledge, the language conveys anything but voluntarism. Thus, the Nigerian law school is not a voluntary association, thus, is subject to the regulations and oversight of the Nigerian legal system.

Proudgorgeousga:
raggedyann, agentofallah, otemsapian, pocohantas, hopefullandland, johnydon22. pls do not deactivate thanks.

Wow! Thanks for the recognition, gorgeous! I'll try, as long as you promise not to

Geist:

The bolded is Perhaps the question that should be asked first. As far I am aware, it's to promote discipline within its members. With certain professions, certain level of discipline is required and as such there are cultures put in place to promote that level of discipline. A soldier would not stand on a parade with beret bent sideways and claim bending his beret does not interfere with him performing his duties. The link might not explain how wearing an hijab stops her from performing her duties but it states clearly that her actions are wrong. If she wishes to change the status quo then she has to get in first. Now my reasons might be inadequate that is why personally I am waiting to hear from the NBA themselves.

Please tell me how wearing the hijab inhibits discipline in the legal profession?

Did you even read the link you provided? The argument in that link has nothing to do with this case at all. That link presents a judgement that argues against adjudicatory roles for courts in disputes regarding the rules of voluntary associations. The Nigerian law school is an institution established by the [url=http://www.nigeria-law.org/Legal%20Education.htm]Legal Education Act of Nigeria[/url]. It is stated in the link that "The Council of Legal Education runs the Nigeria Law School and all persons who have obtained a University degree in law and want to practice as lawyers in Nigeria, must attend the Nigerian Law School"
To the best of my knowledge, the language conveys anything but voluntarism. Thus, the Nigerian law school is not a voluntary association, thus, is subject to the regulations and oversight of the Nigerian legal system.

Geist:
Perhaps try to understand the reasons for the uniforms in the first place. https://www.nairaland.com/4238522/legal-precedence-firdaus-hijab-nigerian

What is the reason for uniforms? And how does the link you provided show that hijab interferes with her carrying out her duties?