₦airaland Forum

Ibime:
How do you do slide tackle when ball is between your opponent's feet? You can only slide tackle when the ball is a reasonable distance away from his body and usually when you are chasing him side by side. They were facing Messi eye to eye with the ball between his feet. Are they supposed to jump into his body? That is clearly a standing tackle situation which they tried too aggressively and exposed the fullback position for Messi to run into at full speed.

Wetin you dey yarn sef?

Watch the gif again, there are moments a slide tackle would have unbalanced or terminated that messi's effort. The moment he broke that 2nd defender close to the touch-line, some good defenders who understands how messi moves would do a slide tackle. A standing tackle wouldn't be enough. Calamitous Boathand strangely did something close here, if you miss that moment messi is gone. That's why not everyone knows when and how to tackle. Coaches train players these things. You may not understand.

https://j.gifs.com/m2Gobx.gif

Ibime:
I think we need optician in the house. From what I saw from your gif Bilbao engaged Messi aggressively right from the halfway line.

Engaged messi aggressively, with no sliding tackles where needed? If you want to check aggressive tackles, go and watch psg-barca 1st leg. These bilbao defenders are clowns. Lemme just let it slide.

diggz:
Thanks alot bro.

Congrats bro, more blessing in the family.

Ibime:
How does this relate to no of tackles? You are even confused whether you are talking about no of tackles or percentage success of tackles. I can't deal.

Man, you don't know what you are talking about. Those Bilbao defenders were desperately trying to tackle Messi right from halfway line. They tried numerous times.

If they were wise like Makelele and Ballack, they would have just chilled in tight formation on the edge of their box and controlled the space and Messi won't score. That's why Messi has not scored a single goal in nearly 10 attempt vs Chelsea. Those Bilbao defenders decided on early confrontation right from the halfway line and paid for it and you are telling us it's vice-versa. Stop typing rubbish. You are clueless.

You are a joke. It's obvious you never played football in a lush green stadium with fans paying to watch. You were here when i dropped gifs of boathand making tackles to stop aguero and messi's darting runs yesterday. The bilbao players were not trying to do anything other than to wait for messi to do his thing. They expected him to turn back because they outnumbered him in that zone. Maldini at his peak would have swept the ball or messi's leg before entering the box. This is the same foolish idea dayo suggested thinking once you force an attacker into a crowded area, there would be no way out. It's high you guys started learning soccer's technicality.

Ibime:
None of this makes any sense. It is not worth commenting on as it's full of misconceptions and poor understanding.

For example, I said the only time tackle is a must is to stop a dangerous counter. How you stop opposition in normal situations is your personal preference and your style of play. You can tackle like Kante or you can block passing lanes like Makelele. I have no quarrel with whatever method you use. So I won't start counting no of tackles as that is influenced by your style of play. You read it to mean that I said tackle is only to be used on counterattack.

So there is just one example of how the above post is full of misconceptions that are not worth my energy.

I only have one question, what is the difference between successful tackles and no of tackles?

Stop confusing yourself, tackles are skills not found in every player. Some are poor tacklers and will not want to risk red cards so they deploy other ways of defending, which may not save the moment. Now below is an example of a non-counter attack moment that a good tackler would have terminated.

[img]http:///media/3-25-2017/XntOBU.gif[/img]

In the heads of those f00lish bilbao defenders, they either believed tackle was not needed or they lacked the skill. Ability to know when to apply and how to execute it smoothly, is not what you find in every defender or dm. You think every muniru and kassim can tackle, so ludicrous. If you have an 82 % tackle success, you are one of the bests defensively. Squawka, whoscored, skysports and others consider tackles in rating dms , who are you to rubbish it?. You have every right to believe that it's not important, that's your problem. I have left this issue, if not for the mentions i got. At the end of the season kante and other dms will still be rated, tackles will still be listed as the strongest point of kante which has raised his profile.

Ibime:
My friend shut it there. I don't know how someone who came in yesterday insisting we must count players tackles will be going into grey area now. Is counting tackles an indication of a defensive players effectiveness or not? Cos I don't understand this one you dey talk now. Do you count tackles or not when rating players?

You have memory problem bro. Below is my first comment which you quoted and i just shot. I dont know why you were twisting my view, as if you made any point. You made it look as if every tackle is a successful one. Without even knowing makelele had 82 % tackle success until you sent a link, i commented based on successful tackles. The link you sent put tackles in the stats, and that's a premier league site. Instead of you to stay mute or address those areas i corrected, you were mentioning me in your posts.
Tell me , why you stated tackles are only to be deployed in counter-attacks
Tell me why you expect defenders that operate mostly in the box to make more tackles than dms outside the box.
Tell me why whoscored used tackles to rate players.
Tell me why idrissa gueye who has high number of tackles now, was tipped for greatness by you last year.
From lesotho to peru, successful tackles will always be used to rate dms.

Ibime:
Whether it is in suporting airmark as he erroneously claims that no of tackles is a key stat to judge a players effectiveness, or plethora of comments made in the past, or posting tackle stats after many matches to prove a point. . . . or your recent attempts to prove that VDV, Luiz, Azpi, Aldeweireld etc are high volume tacklers to go with their status as top defenders, it has always been clear to me what your stance is, as well as from the likes of the below:





My stance has always been clear on the other side of the debate based on my experience with Makelele, Ballack, Terry and co that you don't need to post high numbers of tackles to be effective.

If we misunderstood each other before, and now both agree that no of tackles is not an indication of effectiveness, then there is no need to fight. Lets just shake hands and help me pass the message the Airmark, bigkesh and co rather than supporting their stance. I will not hear that the Greatest Chelsea legends who barely tackled are ineffective because someone wants to promote Kante or down Matic.

You have been found out, just take your L and sleep on it, dont twist my view to look as if you made any meaningful point here. Nobody stated tackles are the all in all in defensive skill set, what we are educating you on is, tackle is an essential part of defensive skills you can use to rate a dm.

- You said whoscored saw tackles as just style of play. I proved it that you lied by using the site ratings that used tackles as one of the stats that makes kante beats coquelin in their ratings.

- You stated that tackles must only be made in a counterattack moment. This is fallacious , embarrassing and every sensible person will agree that not only In counter attacks, tackles can also be deployed to thwart any goal-bound move.

- I proved it to you the year matic was the best dm in epl, he made the highest number of tackles in the league. Nihilist came to corroborate it by telling you in the past 2 seasons dms with highest number of tackles made epl team of the year.

You were expecting defenders inside the box to post higher no. of tackles when they are likely to commit a foul and get sent off or cause penalties. This is ridiculous and i backed out because it is irritating arguing this stuff.

doctokwus:
There is no nid explaining urself,its very obvious to any half intelligent person that that 'certificate' is a fraud.
The only fear is that in Nigeria,anything can happen and d crook wud be left to remain in that seat.
SR are not magicians.Someone that knows Dino very well and has an axe to grind spilled d whole stuff to them,so if Dino likes he shud continue his bluffing,but the info supplied to SR,is almost foolproof.Probably when Dino was still a nobody,he himself told someone his true story,maybe somebody that did same fraud he did,or probably d info may even av come from the person that even forged all his documents for him!
I bet u wherever Dino now is,he wud b wishing a major disaster happens in Nigeria that wud just make this 'horror' story pass.

Spot on. I wont be surprised if the secret was hatched at a beer parlour. Where men were discussing how you may not finish with first class and make it big in nigeria. Taking dino as an example, crusing best of cars, living big in posh area of abuja, dining with the powerful people without .................... from university.

Ibime:
@ Nihilist and Airmark,


Look egbons, I don't want to say the one wey go make handshake pass elbow. . . but una dey try my patience. Why is simple empirical evidence hard to recognise?

Top 20 tacklers does not contain Aldeweireld, Van Dijk, Luiz and Azpi - those are your 4 best defenders this season. I did not see Verthongen or Valencia either. That's your top 6 defenders.

Ngolo Kante is the only player that will PFA Team of the year in the top 20 tacklers. That is empirical evidence, case closed.

Just because NGolo Kante is envogue right now, we have people running around spouting all manner of crap.

The John Terry you have been defending as World Class against Dayo is a low volume tackler. All of my Chelsea defensive heros from Makelele to Ballack were low volume tacklers. I will not come and rubbish them today just because NGolo Kante has a different style of play, nor will I place Ramires above them because of tackle stats.

I put John Terrys tackle stats below. The first people to defend John Terry from Raumdeuter will be the same ones to come around and start telling us that number of tackles is important because of NGolo Kante. Please be consistent.

Let's desist from arguing nonsense. Make we leave am there.

Nihilist:
In 2013/2014 there was no DM in the PFA team. In 2014/2015, the midfielder with the highest number of tackles in the league made the team. In 2015/2016 the midfielder with the highest number of tackles made the team. In 2016/2017, the DM with the highest number of tackles is expected to make the team. So I'm not sure why you're telling me about Erik Pieters or Claudio Yacob.

Nihilist:
We were largely discussing midfielders, don't try and obscure the debate by introducing centrebacks to the discussion. Obviously a CB is the last line of defence. He is less likely to attempt a tackle than a midfielder because the consequences could be disastrous. If a DM misses his tackle, a CB can cover him behind. If a CB misses his tackle, then the attacker could be through on goal.

Respect I dont need to type again. You have killed this.

SmartchoicesNG:
What is your problem? How did he get into a master's programme at ABU?

Educational system is corrupt but recent revelations are shocking, if they are true. The delay in ABU, making official statement , is more shocking.

SmartchoicesNG:
God bless you. No story again!

I am suspecting Yshaya his governor......

DrDeji20:
dino graduated from ABU. #endofstory, Sahara reporters claimed he didn't and that's not all they went ahead to publish lies about it, just to claim God knows what, proud and stupid folks. It's been confirmed he graduated from ABU. Sahara reporters and sowore should prepare for thier court hearing. they better hire a good lawyer cos I don't see them clearing this one.

Bachelor of Arts (Geography), Are you guys for real? It's just a matter of getting a statement of result of one of his course mates that year and compare.

It seems Dino has many stuffs to tidy at the same time now.

Ibime:
Stop miseducating the youth and filling their head with nonsense. There is no professional defender or midfielder that will turn professional and doesn't know how to tackle. Even I know how to tackle.

Every player will tackle to save their team on a dangerous counterattack etc on a need to basis.

You must be joking. Every player can tackle but not every player can make successful tackles. One of the reasons some defenders will be in the first team while some will be on the bench. Mustafi had the chance to tackle hazard, outside of the box, but refused and paid for it. Not every professional defender knows how to tackle well, sergio ramos at his peak is better than 1000 smalling at his best in tackling.

Ibime:
on a dangerous counterattack etc on a need to basis. That is the only situation where a tackle is a must, and that happens rarely in a game.

This is not correct. I had seen non-counterattack moments that required last ditch tackles to stop a goal-bound moves. Especially when through passes were given to strikers after attacking midfielders have done their tricks among many bodies.

Ibime:
So going around counting number of tackles is not a valid or sensible measure of a players worth. It is the most INANE use of football stat I have ever seen.

Experts do this, it's only on nairaland i read that tackles should not be in the stats to evaluate defensive ability.

Ibime:
Of the top 20 tacklers in EPL this season (full of luminaries like Erik Pieters, Claudia Yacob and other wastemen), only Ngolo Kante will make EPL team of the season. So much for counting tackles to judge players.

Tell us the best dm in epl, whose name is not on that list of wastemen? That tells you the obvious. The year matic was adjudged the best dm in epl, he made the highest number of tackles in the league. He had 78% tackle success with 129 tackles. This season he has made just 43 tackles, i dont want to go into reasons for that sharp contrast. This is one of the reasons many people are asking questions as regards his influence in the team.

Ibime:
Tackling is just a style of play. Even Whoscored recognises tackling as a style of play.

That's not absolutely true. Whoscored considers it in rating defenders, it's more than style of play. In the image below, what do you think makes kante better than coquelin if we follow the stats? That's whoscored rating, which i had no influence on the data used. It's only on pep's mouth and here on nairaland i have seen people relegating tackles.

Chelseafan1:
Lwkm, he said he deployed several methods that night, I am not sure tackling was among those several methods

He has been looking for those several methods since.

Chelseafan1:
U don corner the guy, he has nothing to say, , d idiot will now ignore the post, run to anoda thread to go start another argument about Hazard, the rate at which he tries his best to bring down Hazard or force it down our throats that Hazard is shiit, you would think he gets paid to do that.

The same garbage Hazard, he wouldn't mind for his team, ask him why he wants Hazard the trash, he will be yarning nonsense.

Word on the street was that apari lost a lot betting on a straight win, backing bayern, the day hazard killed their 3 legends within 3 secs.

Chelseafan1:
We have heard you, oya, tell us what Boateng did to stop Messi, if they are not tackles, what are they.??

I may need a megaphone to call his attention to this question:

Did boathand make those tackles to cover for his mistakes?

raumdeuter:
[s]What type of foolishness has fallen over you

Is the realization of hazards uselessness now making you foam in the mouth like an epileptic beast ood burden.

Shameless retardd no wonder sharp guys dey collect your girlfriends[/s]

Address the issue raised, dont deflect questions. React to the tackles made by your boathand. Did he make them to cover his own mistakes?

Chelseafan1:
Foolish old man, Airmark has called you out, reply to that post, those gifs he posted of Boateng, how are those not tackles, explain.

Shameless old man, don't pretend not to see his post.

Apari's head L is with a cap.


[img]https://lawebdelkuku.files./2013/03/letras_gorra_animado_l.gif[/img]

bigkesh:
Airmark Pls give us those gifs Ramdueter has been posting


Let us see the other methods ooo

[/quote]They are not tackles and they are mistakes made by boathand. Dayo is a bad influence on up barka juveniles on this forum. If we dont correct him, some of them will just memorise the line and spread the wack belief everywhere.


https://j.gifs.com/KBEPMZ.gif


https://j.gifs.com/m2Gobx.gif


https://j.gifs.com/vpzaNZ.gif

Dayo is a shameless dude. In real life i will like to spank his bald head. In his words and i quote him verbatim.

raumdeuter:
Baling out Schweini and decapitating Aguero in the process
https://j.gifs.com/KBEPMZ.gif

Boathand bailed out his colleague here, but he believes every tackle must be as a result of a mistake by the tackler today.

Ibime:
That's why tackling is STYLE OF PLAY not measure of effectiveness. Real Madrid set up makes the DM more desperate in his play but the Makelele that was labeled World best DM was the one at Chelsea who barely tackled.

Infact the worlds best defensive team for a decade from 2004 to 2014 was Chelsea and our midfielders didn't tackle except the worst midfielder of them all, Ramires. His first touch was so poor, his 2nd touch was often a tackle. If the best defensive team of the decade didn't tackle, that should tell you how fugazi this new fad of judging midfielders by no of tackles is.

I don't care if you make zero tackles per game like Makelele or 4 tackles per game like Kante. That's your STYLE OF PLAY. All I care is that you do your job which is to keep the clean sheet.

This is part of where you getting it wrong. Essien tackled too - shared responsibility. When i am much free i will address your posts better. You cant be known as a defensive side without those tackles bro.

raumdeuter:
You dont have to take my word for it, Take Maldinis own words the best defender of his generation

Apari ramuzaki, answer that simple question. Stop disgracing yourself. Have told you , you can tackle to cover a mistake by your team mate. Use your brain, it's yours given to you freely. You are not charged for it .

raumdeuter:
Its extreme foolishness to think tackles matter

Xabi Alonso said it Maldini said it. these are 2 of the best players on their positions. From what expert? an ogogoro expert?

There are several ways sensible players play the DM role while reducing tackles to the back

Ibime should tell you that there is a smart way you can follow/usher an attacker into a crowded area where he will be outnumbered not just diving into tackles like TP Mazembe players

This is ridiculous. so at every point in time your opponent is attacking you, you will have a crowded area to push him into. Footballers reading this will laugh. You dont make tackles recklessly, you should be able to know when and how to give it it out. Which crowded area should coquelin push hazard into? Which crowded area did krychowiak have to race messi into, in that epic moment? There are some moments in a match if you dont activate that tackle, you will lose your opponent or risk being carded. Ability to manage that moment well, speaks volume of how great you are defensively.

bigkesh:
Kante hardly makes mistakes and he has been winning tackles, so according to Maldini and Bro DAYO Kante is covering up for his mistakes? ?


I don't understand this


Winning tackles will always be important

Help me ask him again. Things that are not difficult to understand dayo will be arguing blindly over it.

raumdeuter:
You are too foolish. DM will only be evaluated by ball recovered whether they do it through tackles, body placement, proactive interception, speed of diving to block is immaterial here you morronn

Let Ibime come and educate you further

This is the reason i call you ramuzaki. Experts will not call it immaterial, that's why on that premier league site, it was not embedded in another field. It is no.1. I am telling you from an expert point of view, no bragging.

raumdeuter:
This is what you should have been doing instead of bingeing on chicken wings

Tackle is like doing crash study for an exams you had 3months to prepare for. A smart student doesnt need to do reading at emergency because many things can go wrong

Just like a smart DM doesnt need to tackle because many things can go wrong

proper use of your body to cover the pathway is a more efficient way of dispossesion which is what Busquets mastered and idddiots like airmark cant understand

There are times your team mate loses possession suddenly or get dribbled and you are out of position, there is nothing like using your body for your opponent who is also skillful like messi, some metres away heading for your goal on a counter. You need to diligently make that tackle. Dont be deceived, coquelin tried to use the body like you stvpidly thought of and lost his position in the team. I played football and footballers understand this. Not hard.

raumdeuter:
Tackle is a last resort when you have already failed to do what should have been done

[s]Like I said this is like rating students based on how effective they studied 3hrs to exams when smarter students have done this 3months at their own pace and comfort

It is a concept too hard for a madrasa dropout to understand[/s]

Mumu, so you have not seen a player making a tackle to cover for his team mate(s) blunders?

Ibime:
You are wrong again. Playing midfield against Barcelona where you have already squeezed the space so that a Barca player cannot move 5 yards without encountering another Chelsea player negates the need for tackling too much. You defend those games by positioning and pressing.

Midfielders tackles in 2012 UCL semifinal: Barcelona 2 - Chelsea 2

Busquets - 3
Xavi - 3
Iniesta - 1

Merieles - 3
Mikel - 2
Lampard - 2

Not counting Mascherano and Ramires because they played CB and RB respectively.

If it is my job to educate this thread about such nonsense stats that some peeps have been promoting, I will do it.

Real madrid was not parking the bus and makelele had better numbers which you confirmed. Chelsea deployed different formation against barca, does it remove the fact that dms will be evaluated on tackles? These numbers up there even showed you the reason makelele didn't have high number of tackles as it was the era of parking the bus - responsibility shared. The Premier league link you quoted placed tackle as no. 1 stat in defence, you are here saying its nonsense stat.

Ibime:
82% of zero = zero.

If you offer me 50% of £1,000 or 82% of £1, I know which one I will take.

No of tackles means NOTHING in rating a DM, if not 95% of DMs would be rated better than Makelele.

This is basic common sense.

Tackle success is essential here, not number of tackles bro. Makalele's 82% tackle success is very high and any dm with such too is a great dm. It's not difficult to understand.

raumdeuter:
EVeryone more knowledgeable and smarter than you is saying something you are doing stronghead like Danfo without brake

Maldidni is rated as the best defender of his generation when he talks I will rather listen to him than to a koranic school dropout like you

He told you what made him to give tackles, he didnt tell you such moments wouldn't occur. Ability to rescue that moment is what makes one defender better than the other. You cant take away tackles from defensive responsibility. That parameter will always be used mumunatu .

Ibime:
No it's not. Makeleles tackle rate was very low at Chelsea. Makelele only made 114 tackles in 144 EPL matches, less than 1 per game

https://www.premierleague.com/players/2454/player/stats

Now if you are talking Makelele at Madrid, he made higher no of tackles because he was the only defensive player and all his actions were to stop counterattacks which meant more last ditch tackling. At Chelsea, he was in a controlled midfield where he would just control space until you run into a cul-de-sac and lose possession.

Also what is the difference between making 0.8 tackles per game and 1.7 tackles per game?

Does a jambody player like Wanyama look like somebody that needs to tackle you when he can just shade you off the ball? Do you know that almost every time a player of Wanyamas size goes to ground to make a tackle, he gets a yellow card?

Force = MA. It is the mass in that equation that makes big players not to accelerate into tackles otherwise it would be construed as violent play.

It is small players like Kante and Gueye that need to go to ground to win the ball cos they can't do it by strength. That's why I said no of tackles is an indication of your style of play, nothing more.

Wanyama also tackles but not as much as kante, because dembele is not sleeping. In fact dembele has won more tackles than all of them. However kante lost more tackles than wanyama. My point here is that you cant relegate tackles as a dm. As you rightly stated makalele didnt do much of tackles at chelsea, cos he wasn't the sole pivot then. He had 82% of successful tackles, which is well above average in effectiveness. The primary responsiblity of a dm is to shield his defence, by way of tackles, interceptions, defensive positioning etc. A dm playing against an attacking side like barca cant do without tackling because you have attackers who are skillful and will always take you on. Even in the link you posted, tackle is no. 1 on that defensive stat and any dm who cant do above average in it is not a great dm. Makalele and co did.

raumdeuter:
airmark see your useless yeye life outside wey dem dey use play merrybet.

whatever you refuse to learn in secondary school will be forcefed to you in your old age

See ibime teaching you Force = mass X acceleration. This is what you should have learnt in JSS2

You are a disgrace to Nigerian educatio

Apari werey, stuffs always fly over your bald skull. My point is tackle is essential in rating a dm. Makalele had 82% so can you see how dull you are? I was expecting tackles not to be part of the stats used to evaluate makalele in ibime's link, but it was used. You just jumped stvpidly into matters beyond your grasp.

raumdeuter:
“IF I have to make a tackle then I have already made a mistake.”- Paolo Maldini.

That's why martins sodomised him easily. Is there any player without mistakes on the field? You be mumu, his statement has nothing to do with relegating tackles. You or your team mates can make a mistake and you need to make that tackle to save that moment. Your ability to rise up to such occasion will be applauded.

https://share.gifyoutube.com/m6Ojal.gif

Ibime:
You need to go check what Wanyama is doing, never mind what Kante is doing. Matic outtackles Wanyama.

I have told you clowns to stop looking at tackle statistics which tells you nothing except for a players style of play. Not all players need to tackle to turnover possession.

You cant be hailed playing against the messis of this world as a dm without getting good numbers in successful tackles. makelele was a good tackler. You cant play down tackles in top flight football. Successful tackle is an essential parameter for evaluating DMs bro.

A40:
[s]Eru ti ba werey sha. Alatenuje oshi. You were gleefully willing to forsake $500 to win just 50k, now I'm offering more while you stand to lose significantly less yet you are telling stories that touch. Okuko

Let's see who go end up for lagoon.

If you aren't game then make u comot for my circumference and stop buzzing for my ear like Ekpan Fly


Of course we are used to excellence from Müller so the dip in form is cause for alarm. However Müller's place is safe in football folklore. A World Cup and CL winner at 24 a feat your useless Ikedia will never kuku achieve. Only a senseless apoche cra cra like you would bring in Cavani into this debate.[/s] The likes of Ronaldo and Messi miss more than they score. [s]But like Müller they deliver when it matters most. Abilities foreign to Hidden Ikebe Super Hazard

Abeg make we hear word. Ancelotti coached Madrid and now Bayern his interest in Hazard? Nil[/s]

Dmcdad, bykebyke, debroslink, homesteady, coded01, do you guys agree with this boy?

A40:
[s]Eru ti ba werey sha. Alatenuje oshi. You were gleefully willing to forsake $500 to win just 50k, now I'm offering more while you stand to lose significantly less yet you are telling stories that touch. Okuko

Let's see who go end up for lagoon.

If you aren't game then make u comot for my circumference and stop buzzing for my ear like Ekpan Fly


Of course we are used to excellence from Müller so the dip in form is cause for alarm. However Müller's place is safe in football folklore. A World Cup and CL winner at 24 a feat your useless Ikedia will never kuku achieve. Only a senseless apoche cra cra like you would bring in Cavani into this debate.[/s] The likes of Ronaldo and Messi miss more than they score. [s]But like Müller they deliver when it matters most. Abilities foreign to Hidden Ikebe Super Hazard

Abeg make we hear word. Ancelotti coached Madrid and now Bayern his interest in Hazard? Nil[/s]

Dmcdad, bykebyke, debroslink, homesteady, coded01, do you guys agree with this boy?