₦airaland Forum

@ihedinobi,
Hope you are doing well. Your paper on the unity of faith sucked you in. Your excitement was palpitating. Thanks for reiterating what I said. God had to send His Word in Flesh to bring life, truth and light indeed.

anukulapo: Ok. I thought as much;I just wanted to be sure. Good observation especially to support the fact that MOST TIMES "Interpretation becomes skewed by the time we do not hear God ourselves".
However I want to draw our attention back to some other major points in the commandment.
As clearly stated in both statement of the commandments (directly from God and her recant) She knew that
1) they ought not to eat
If they do,
2) They will die
She was clearly aware of the commandment.
I know you didn't say anything contrary to the point I just made above but I just wanted to state it so that we will not shift from that the observation (which is true) would not become another "strong meat" that some other people would begin to wrestle with.
I hope this won't amount to distraction and derail. Just my input on the issue.
Grace to you,stay blessed.

Oh thanks for this observation. There are things to learn from it and each person can draw their inspirations.
Amen and you too.

anukulapo: I carefully read through your post but I still don't get your point in the above quote especially as regards Eve recanting the instruction of God to the devil.

Please,spare a little time to clarify. Thanks.

@all contributors
You are all doing a good job. I hope I catch up with the pace to read through to the latest page soon.

Hello @anukulapo,
What I was trying to say was that Eve added what God did not say 'DO NOT TOUCH IT LEST YOU DIE'. This may be because she didn't hear it direct from God. Interpretation becomes skewed by the time we do not hear God ourselves.
That was why God had to send His VOICE/WORD again in Jesus Christ since the Israelites refused to hear him direct on Sinai but rather preferred a mediator.

@mychildren,
Yes your wish is granted. See as efribody don dey bear their name. After dem all run comot. Na fight bring them all back. U go know aproko when you see them. Dem beak dey long because of too much poking into mata. Gosh, I am really happy to see everyone.

@muma, Amen. Olorun noni o.

@yemstico, did I prophesy? E happen, you come run abi? See my post for last year september to you o.

Alwaystrue: @july16th, na wa for una o. Abeg go do PT sharp sharp as you dey see double o because as you add my name for koboko mata wey me no know anything about. You no even hear me mention the koboko thin. Na wa o. Long time dear. We are all popular for trusting the Lord just so many people to remember. No vex. Helep us greet Beloved o.

@blessedmum, trust God and watch Him do wonders. It is well with you. Accordingl to man's knowledge that sperm volume may not be able to do much. According to God's report, it takes just one right sperm with divine ability to hit the target. Infact I still dey speak 'man' language. With God, it takes his strength to conceive for your husband. Shikena.

@Beetle, she is back! But this her mouth be like @Manugirl o. Seems like she don consolidate. CHOI! The combo go bad o. Beetle feat. Manugirl. Kai...
Who called you witch? I said who are those that called you a witch? Where dem be today?
Welcome back. I dey here na, abi you wan drive me when I need to encourage the brethren. I no be like you wey for the first sign of trouble, you ben johnsen na My talk don dey too much. Make I maintain.


@Flakeey, how are you? This is indeed a good sign o. We should all realise this is a ministry. Let us encourage other mums that will come in using our examples of faith that worked for us. It is all about having a Hall of Faith and edifying other who are week. Hear @Blessedmom, she is inspired to go on and trust God for He will surprise her soon.

Pastor, Prepare Your Heart


Thursday, 21 August 2014 01:15


'I lay prostrate before the Lord... forty days.' Deuteronomy 9:25 NIV


A preacher got into the habit of writing his sermons word for word. It worked well - until one Sunday he found himself in the pulpit without his notes. Addressing the congregation, he said, 'I've forgotten my notes this morning, so I'll have to pray and rely on the Lord. But at tonight's service, I'll come better prepared.' Cute story, but it's not so cute when it's a reality! Pastor, your people may be impressed with your speaking abilities short-term, but they'll only be impacted long-term when your words are inspired by the Holy Spirit.

The ability to change hearts is above your pay grade, so don't fall into that ego trap or you'll fizzle like a wet firecracker! Study the life of Christ. Before He chose His disciples, or walked on the water, or fed the multitude, He spent hours in prayer. So in order to choose the right people, feed your flock on Sunday morning, or 'walk on water' and accomplish great things for God, you must focus on preparing your heart and not just your message. You say, 'But I'm a people person.'

That's good, but you'll have nothing to say to people that'll make any real difference unless you get it from God. You say, 'But I'm a project person.' Unless you spend time with God, you'll get into things you shouldn't - things you may not be able to get out of. Moses said, 'I lay prostrate before the Lord...forty days and forty nights because the Lord had said He would destroy you.' And the end result? God not only saved the nation, He blessed it. So pastor, prepare your heart.


SoulFood: 2 Chron 12-15; Luke 15:11-32; Ps 119:97-104; Pro 21:24-27


This is The Word For Today

Forgive Them, and Let It Go!


Wednesday, 20 August 2014


'Pray for those who spitefully use you and persecute you.' Matthew 5:44 NKJV


An unforgiving attitude can keep you from moving forward in life. So isn't it time you got serious about forgiving the one who hurt you? You say, 'But then they'll have got away with it.' They're not getting away with anything! God is qualified to judge; you're not. Remember, your critics are making decisions about you based on limited information, but God knows the truth and He will deal with your detractors in His own time. By trying to defend yourself and prove them wrong, you're stepping into territory that belongs exclusively to God.

The Bible says: 'Never pay back evil with more evil. Do things in such a way that everyone can see you are honourable. Do all that you can to live in peace with everyone... never take revenge. Leave that to the righteous anger of God. For the Scriptures say, "I will take revenge; I will pay them back," says the Lord. Instead, if your enemies are hungry, feed them. If they are thirsty, give them something to drink. In doing this, you will heap burning coals of shame on their heads. Don't let evil conquer you, but conquer evil by doing good.' (Romans 12:17-21 NLT)

Satan's goal is to get you all tied up in knots and steal your peace. Don't play into his hands! Christ, your example, prayed for those who drove the nails into His hands: 'Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do.' (Luke 23:34 KJV) Your enemies may think they're smart, but often they're acting in ignorance. Don't come down to their level by retaliating. Forgive them, and let it go.


SoulFood: 2 Chron 8-11; Luke 15:1-10; Ps 119:89-96; Pro 21:20-23


This is The Word For Today

@Bcolah, @Godsgrace, @edunjobix, @cjnone, @Ayaakanoh, @Tbaby4real, @favouredgal,
Thanks for all the prayers and lovely wishes. It is only by the strength of God that we move on daily not by our power or might at all.

@Dasha01, thanks for all the jokes, very funny. God make you laugh.

On the issue that has been discussed at length, lets please let objectivity and peace reign. It is not all bad, we have gained lots of information from each other. The thread is meant to work in harmony. It is a new day.

Greetings to all newly increased mums and dads that I have not mentioned, safe carriage and ease of delivery.

@omonikiba, @Dreamsinbc, @safe, @pink @santagelo, @nice14 (berrybass @bniceb ), @joesq, @ebony, @goldenbaby and all others please return and encourage one another. Strength is drawn when we edify each other.

Even when it seems like nothing is happening, when you are at your wits end, tired, worn and dejected, God is still faithful and working things out for our good. We may never understand it now but we will understand it better by and by and when the testimony comes, you will know how worth it the whole process was.

@Mamatriplets, you are welcome once again. Let's go there...

Why do i have such a good feeling? Somebody wake me Oh, i never even sleep.
This night (not yet asleep) dream is too sweet.

@Beloved1993, I see you. Did i suspect, i think so...CONGRATS doc on your new angels. The Lord be praised!

@All, thanks for all the bruhauha (okay correct me), all things indeed work together for our good.

MamaTriplets1: Hello Mighty Parents of a Glorious Generation, Beeen Agesss ooo!!!!! Choiiiii!!!! Please, Please and Please I beg all those offended by my absence to forgive me. Make unu no vex at all. Y'all tried by all d love you continued to show me even when I was not here anymore, I thank you soooo much. MyBeloved, I came because of you. A BIG Conngratulations to you!!! Am so happy for you!!! Shame to barrenness . You too have prevailed. One woman that NEVER gave up on me... Hmmm.... Alwaystrue...aka Alwaysbaby... Gawwddd!!! That Woman is my own guardian Angel.... She will be so shocked to find this post here by morning... She always believed i could make a come back even when I thot otherwise... Baba God dey!!! @Zarammum, Ayakaanoh and all those speculating about me being on this forum with anoda ID..... Wosai!!! No be me oooo!!!! I have not been here in ages. I was just beeped abt stuff going on here on peeps that were defrauded by honiepie. Its well ooo. Please am am not benicebpeaceable. Am a Crusader of PRAYER!!! and I have never been one promoting one product or the other for infertility. Venuss dearie, I sight you. Redeemersave I never see Ur testimony ooo!!!! @All, be encouraged because He who has promised to Give you Children is FAITHFUL to Fulfill. Has He promised you? He will bring it to pass!!!! To those who are weary, HOLD ON, Help is on the way!!!! Shalom...

No i had to catch this before you changed your mind madam MamaT mi Adanma to sure, o baby that is not easy.
I have caught you in 4D.

Parents, we are back in businesssss!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

August visitor is home!

Take Control of Your Life

Tuesday, 19 August 2014


'He departed again to the mountain by Himself alone.' John 6:15 NKJV


The Bible says: 'When Jesus perceived that they were about to come and take Him by force to make Him King, He departed again to the mountain by Himself alone. Now when evening came, His disciples went down to the sea, got into the boat, and went over the sea toward Capernaum... Then the sea arose because a great wind was blowing. So when they had rowed about three or four miles, they saw Jesus walking on the sea and drawing near the boat; and they were afraid. But He said to them, "It is I; do not be afraid." Then they willingly received Him into the boat, and immediately the boat was at the land where they were going.' (John 6:15-21 NKJV) Notice three things in this story:

(1) The control Jesus exercised. People wanted to plan His life for Him. Sound familiar? When that happened, 'He departed again to the mountain by Himself alone.' Note the word 'again'. Spending time with God was something He did regularly. Do you?

(2) The criticism Jesus evoked. When the crowd wants to make you 'King', it's hard for your ego to walk away. But Jesus did. Others couldn't impose their will or agenda on Him. Why? Because He was committed to doing the will of God and nothing else.

(3) The communion Jesus enjoyed. He emerged from a night of prayer empowered to walk on the water and subdue the storm. If you want to succeed in life, there's only one source you can go to for strength and guidance: God. Do you want to take control of your life? That's how you do it!


SoulFood: 2 Chron 5-7; Luke 14:25-35; Ps 119:81-88; Pro 21:17-19


This is The Word For Today

God has given some people cheques (promises).
These cheques just happen to be post-dated. Many atimes you cannot even see the date.
What do you do when you have a post-dated cheque especially when you know the cheque will not bounce?
I believe we spend the time preparing for what you will use the proceeds from the cheque to procure or with dreamy eyes start smiling and laughing in advance of what you will enjoy it with on the day of fulfilment.

Proverbs 13:12
Hope deferred maketh the heart sick: but when the desire cometh, it is a tree of life

Hope is a precious and wonderful thing! Here is a glorious and important proverb, if you will consider it carefully at length. Without hope, men get desperate and will do almost anything to escape their hopelessness. With it, men can endure almost anything, no matter how desperate their conditions become. Wise men will appreciate the great value of hope.


Lamentations 3:24-26
24 The Lord is my portion or share, says my living being (my inner self); therefore will I hope in Him and wait expectantly for Him.
25 The Lord is good to those who wait hopefully and expectantly for Him, to those who seek Him [inquire of and for Him and require Him by right of necessity and on the authority of God’s word].
26 It is good that one should hope in and wait quietly for the salvation (the safety and ease) of the Lord.

The scripture talks about the quiet expectation of those who have this post-dated cheque with them, They wait on the safety and ease at which God does His thing.
Both Abraham/Sarah were given that post-dated cheque. Infact the cashing of it even looked bleak as it seemed as though they had no means of ID (their bodies were both dead) to receive the cheque but God gave them a new name of Father and Mother of nations.

Hannah had it too and her countenance was no more sad. Many others in scripture were given those cheques and they were all cashed.

Today, if you know you have those cheques, keep it safe in prayers, praise and joyful hearts till its value date.
It will be such a pain to spend the time holding this post-dated cheques in running helter skelter, crying and all sorts as if you do not have it.
And if you think you do not have it, just check the word of God...it is big enough to hold cheques for everyone. Just grab yours.

For yet a little while, and he that shall come will come, and will not tarry...

Happy New Week Folks.

Love Your Church - Jesus Does! (

Monday, 18 August 2014


'...after you have suffered a while, [may God] perfect, establish, strengthen, and settle you.' 1 Peter 5:10 NKJV


It took seven years to build Solomon's temple. In Scripture the number seven represents completion. So when it comes to your 'position' in Christ, you're as saved right now as you'll be when you stand in Heaven. When Jesus cried, 'It is finished', everything required to reconcile you to God was completed. The word 'complete' means lacking nothing. And when you put your trust in Jesus, that's how God sees you. When He positions you in Christ, 'You are complete in Him.' (Colossians 2:10 NKJV) You say, 'But I still sin.' The Bible says, 'We all... beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image...by the Spirit of the Lord.' (2 Corinthians 3:18 NKJV) Did you get that? The Holy Spirit is at work in your life every day, in every way, moulding you into the image of Jesus.

God's ultimate plan for you is greater than you can comprehend. Jude writes, 'Now unto Him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of His glory with exceeding joy... be glory and majesty.' (Jude 1:24-25 KJV) Note the words 'Him that is able'. This is something Christ does for you, not something you do for yourself! And one of the tools He uses to bring about your perfection (maturity) is trouble. Peter writes, 'May the God of all grace, who has called us to His eternal glory by Christ Jesus, after you have suffered a while, perfect, establish, strengthen, and settle you.' It may take a while, but you'll get there!


SoulFood: 2 Chron 1-4; Luke 14:15-24; Ps 119:73-80; Pro 21:14-16


This is The Word For Today

@Odunharry,
Weldone and kudos for keeping the publishing ongoing. Hope school is good and you are excelling there. It is important you know.

@harlos,
Dont be lazy. Be inspired to study Receive grace.

@Lateef4me, where are you?

Love Your Church - Jesus Does! (7)

Sunday, 17 August 2014

'You too are being built together to become a dwelling in which God lives.' Ephesians 2:22 NIV


Jesus lives in each of those who make up His church. 'You are... members of God's household, built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, with Christ Jesus Himself as the chief cornerstone. In Him the whole building is joined together and rises to become a holy temple in the Lord. And in Him you too are being built together to become a dwelling in which God lives by His Spirit.' (Ephesians 2:19-22 NIV)

Nothing is nearer and dearer to the heart of God than His church. 'Christ... loved the church and gave Himself for her.' (Ephesians 5:25 NKJV) His greatest interest, and the core of His eternal purpose, is that 'through the church, the manifold wisdom of God should be made known.' (Ephesians 3:10 NIV) You ask, 'How can I become a member of Christ's church?' It's a family; you must be born into it. That's why Jesus told Nicodemus, 'You must be born again.' (John 3:7 NKJV) You don't get in by shaking a preacher's hand, filling out a membership card or making a donation to the building fund. The Bible says, 'Receive one another, just as Christ...received [you].' (Romans 15:7 NKJV)

Once you've accepted Christ and He has accepted you, you're 'in'. You may not have the high profile others enjoy in your church, but in God's eyes you're a bona fide, blood-washed, Heaven-bound member of His family. The Bible says, 'The Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved' (Acts 2:47 KJV) - and when He adds you, there's not a soul on earth who can subtract you!


SoulFood: John 4:4-26; John 7:37-41; Exo 17:1-7; Isa 35:1-7

This is The Word For Today

Thanks all for the opportunity.
Striktlymi, Ihe, Yooguz weldone as your topics were delivered well despite how technical it could be.

Mark, PastorOluT, Truthman, Babagnoni, MrAnony, kudos to you all.

Goshen and Drummaboy, thanks for the avenue to publish the word.

May grace continually be multiplied to us.

BabaGnoni: Thank you for your replies, since you're still here, one or two more clarities before I hang loose off you and let you go
You said: "What the law could not do in that in was weak through the flesh,"
What law are you referring to here?
Is it the law given or Eden or law(s) elsewhere?
OK what is law, what's your definition of law or understanding of law?
For the second and last question, you said "It was not recorded that Adam and Eve believed God and as such His Word was broken"
If someone didnt believe God's word, why would that person, advise Eve not to touch the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil lest she dies, when in fact the command God gave was not to eat of the tree?
I was to iron out the righteousness of God part too, but it can lie low
Thanks in advance again

It was the law given at Sinai that was being referred to there. The bible said thw scripture. I just quoted it.

A law is a systematic structure of rules that governs behaviour of a people usually enforced by penalties. There is always a reason that makes a law come about. Not understanding the reason why may often taint how it is carried out.

We do not know what Adam advised Eve. It was Eve that told the devil that it should not even be touched. Well she touched it and didnt die which wasnt even part of the instruction. The law not to touch (that Eve said) was just to buttress not even eating it but the reverse occured.

Thanks.

@ Candour,
Thanks. It was God's grace that enabled me and many others to present as it is not an easy task. I would have rather preferred to look on but it is all about grace received.
Cheers.

christemmbassey: I TOTALY DISAGRY WITH THIS but since it appears u were nt ready to defend ur presentations, i'll let it pass. God bless.

You are at liberty to disagree my response to your questions. Thank you.

BabaGnoni: @Alwaystrue,
Great submissions as earlier pointed out, since we have you on standby for Q&A, please, enumerate more on law, grace and righteousness

Thanks for your patience. What the law could not do in that in was weak through the flesh, God did by sending his own grace (Jesus Christ) condemning sin in the flesh that the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in those who DO NOT walk according to the flesh but of the Spirit.

The Law therefore is holy, and [each] commandment is holy and just and good. Did that which is good then prove fatal [bringing death] to me? Certainly not! It was sin, working death in me by using this good thing [as a weapon], in order that through the commandment sin might be shown up clearly to be sin, that the extreme malignity and immeasurable sinfulness of sin might plainly appear.
We know that the Law is spiritual; but I am a creature of the flesh [carnal, unspiritual], having been sold into slavery under [the control of] sin.

The law was evil to a sinful fleshly man because he could not keep it. Why? There was no spirit link to God which could interprete and bring to life the righteousness of it. So man used fleshly wisdom to interprete the law and ended up even more sinful.
Jesus died to connect us back to God and thus God's word falling on a spirit-led man who believes and obeys it is a pleasure to God. Grace is what shows us the righteousness of God's law thaf he spoke in His voice.
Remember, there was a place where Jesus said man was obeying traditions of men instead of God's law. It isn't the same as ordinances which had law of commandments in them. Exodus 21 to 23. Those were decrees contrary to us that Jesus abolished like eye for eye, do not mix with other people on earth, do not this and that and so many others in those chapters that were contrary to us.


We will be able to understand the law of God is love and till we know how each law of God applies to love we will keep thinking the law is not good. Our very faith upholds the law of God for its the law of the Spirit that a spirit led man follows through the help of grace because Jesus fulfilled the law. Its this same law that is being fulfilled in us as we walk in Christ. Jesus didnt obey the law like pharisees, he obeyed it by the Spirit to which it was said he had no sin or unrighteousness.

BabaGnoni: Please give responses keeping in mind, in the context of Eden before the Fall (e.g law for Adam and Eve, and grace for Adam, Eve and maybe animals like birds etc)
and then righteousness in the beginning, as in Eden and the correlation with 2 Corinthians 5:21 and Romans 3:22.
If possible, also the Hall of Faith, what exactly was the act/task done by each recipient, that it was credited or counted for each as righteous? Any reason(s) for this
(i.e. noting that each believers seems to be enjoying as per 2 Corinthians 5:21 and Romans 3:22 a fast track righteous status, courtesy of what happened on the Cross)
Sorry, but we're all learning from all this.
Thanks in advance for the replies
PS: This can be declined without danger of repercussions

It was not recorded that Adam and Eve believed God and as such His Word was broken. Even believed the word of the serpent over the word of God. Adam believed the word of Eve over God and they translated it to action. Belief and action go hand in hand and that is why whem we believe Jesus who had no sin, we act like him and believe His words to us, taking his advice and doing His good pleasure.
Because someone doesnt believe Chrisy does not make the failthfulness of God without effect. God remains faithful. When God sent His Son to die for our sins and tells the world that they should believe Him and live but they reject such, God will remain faithful. The grace will remain available, whether or not man takes it. Man simply looses if he fails to believe God.

I quoted where the snake was raised up in the wilderness and Moses told the people to look on it and be saved. Those that believed the word and translated it to action by looking on were saved. Anyone who felt what effrontery, how can it save me and didnt look lost out by dieing. God remained failthful to His word.

All those in the Hall of Faith, heard God, believed and obeyed.
What did Abel do? Offered a better sacrifice than Cain for God testified of His gifts.

Enoch had the testimony he pleased God...he did stuff not recorded but they believed God enough to put it into actions.

Noah heard God and obeyed by building the ark even when it appeared foolish. He didnt waiver but acted in line with God's instructions.

Abraham obeyed by faith when he heard God who told him to go out to a strange land. He didnt just believe and sit at home. He put his believe into obeying.

Sarah after she laughed at the word of the angel but it did not stop her and pappy Abraham from doing the do which brought Isaac....lol.

Same Abraham obeyed the voice of God to sacrifice his son. He could have claimed i believe you Lord and not do now. God swore by two immutable things to bless Abraham....a blessing we all enjoy today.

They all believed and showed the belief. That is why Hebrews 11 shows, by faith they did this and that...it was by faith to the Spoken word.

Israel rejected the spoken word of God at Sinai preferring laws which they ended up unable to keep. GOD sent His voice again in Jesus Christ, words which God said if man did not heed, he would require it of them.

Jesus expects belief and obedience to His word. And the comforter He sent afterwards brings to our remeberance those words in the wholesome wisdom of it and guide is in how to apply it to enjoy abundant life...that is grace.

Thank you.

BabaGnoni: @Alwaystrue,
Great submissions as earlier pointed out, since we have you on standby for Q&A, please, enumerate more on law, grace and righteousness
Please give responses keeping in mind, in the context of Eden before the Fall (e.g law for Adam and Eve, and grace for Adam, Eve and maybe animals like birds etc)
and then righteousness in the beginning, as in Eden and the correlation with 2 Corinthians 5:21 and Romans 3:22.
If possible, also the Hall of Faith, what exactly was the act/task done by each recipient, that it was credited or counted for each as righteous? Any reason(s) for this
(i.e. noting that each believers seems to be enjoying as per 2 Corinthians 5:21 and Romans 3:22 a fast track righteous status, courtesy of what happened on the Cross)
Sorry, but we're all learning from all this.
Thanks in advance for the replies
PS: This can be declined without danger of repercussions

Thanks @babagnoni,
I will respond later as i have a fellowship to attend now.
On your PS: i wonder what repercussions I should be scared of on NL. Lol. Glad you know we all have a choice to do whatever we want. Thanks for the reminder.

Added: apologies Mark, didnt know you were about to post.

@All,
Thanks to all the presenters, i have had a quite busy week and been unable to check up your presentations. Infact i was out when i quickly checked and saw the questioms to me. I will go through and gain as much as I can.

Alwaystrue: As usual you come with a mindset. No wonder u r not dissappointed. Lol. I will answer you later. I hope the moderators are seeing this and work on it.

As I gave my word to @christembassey and in the few minutes i will like him to understand that what i meant by law as control is what Paul ended Romans 7 with.

I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.
Paul simple said thank God for Jesus, the grace of God, so he servea the law of God in his mind but when in the flesh, the law of sin. Whenever he allows his flesh overide his Spirit, he allows the law of sin rule over him which makes him to come to Christ for grace to help which helps him overcome in the future. That is what i meant by control.

The bible said that those who walk in the Spirit are not under the law meaning those who walk in the flesh are under the law...Christians walk in the flesh when they are not subject to the Spirit of God and that is how anger which leads to fighting which is against the law of the letter occurs. They need to run to the throne of grace to receive mercy and help.
Paul said he would not have know lust if not for the law and affirmed the law is good for its points us to our ever constant need for the Saviour.

I do not insist on law and grace. Scriptures do, i only say it please. The same gospel preached to Israel was preached to us but they didnt mix it with faith.

The finished works of Christ wasnt about going against the law but enabling the righteousness of the law to be fulfilled in us who walk after the Spirit not the flesh....it made it that plain.

It has been said grace is not lawlessness and if its not lawlessness its lawful...there is no middle ground...that is why i described at length the law of the Spirit which Christ fulfilled thus showing us exactly what His Father meant by the law of the letter.


I await Drummer's summarised questions.

christemmbassey: Thanks @Dboy for ur posts on Alwaystrue's presentation, though, I expected d law/grace mixture and I was not disappointed. U've covered most areas i'd love to av sm clearifications but @Alwaystrue, pls can u explain further this ur 'law is control' and its place in d finished work of Christ? Do u really think that 'Grace teaching encourage sin, why? And why do u insist on grace/law mixture? Bless u.

As usual you come with a mindset. No wonder u r not dissappointed. Lol. I will answer you later. I hope the moderators are seeing this and work on it.

@ Drummaboy,
I am glad to have abided by the laws you laid down with the fruit of the Spirit of self control.

On all the points you raised, please summarise your questions.

It would be nice if you dont assume what i did not mean by playing judge and jury at the same time. Ask your questions please and let me answer then draw your conclusions...

For the record when Jesus said he did not come to abolish the law but fulfil it, it is not the same as 'law of commandments contained in ordinances which he abolished IN THE FLESH'. I really wish you understand this.

Also while pasting your questions, do make it short and straight to the point. Then i will answer. Thanks.

@Gombs,
Thank God for his word and our ever present help and revelation. My last check before i started posting, i was on 3997 words. I think the scriptures i posted ate into my allowance.
By the way, you commented before i was done. Usually the presenter paste 'The End' or similar. It is against the rules of the convention i think. U may remove and paste after to make it good.
Thanks.

Apologies if my post was long. I had to really cut it down though as i said the scripture quotes took up some space.

CHAPTER 3
The Demands of the Law & The Supply of Grace


As it is God's law, so also is the supply of God's grace. Grace is the full and abundant supply that completely fulfils the demands of God's law just as Christ fulfilled the law not in words only but actions. Indeed, only grace can express God's law. Any other power or ability comes totally short of expressing God's law. One finds sufficiency in, but only in, God's grace.

Grace supplies that ability, power, strength that can prove the good and acceptable and perfect will of God. God's will as a principle of responsibility for every man, woman, and child is God's law. God's supply as a principle of enabling strength for every man, woman, and child is God's grace. God's law thus finding expression in an individual's life through the impartation and working of God's grace is demonstrated in and manifested in righteousness!

Righteousness is the performance of God's will in the power of God's grace. The Law fulfilled in Grace and demonstrated in Righteousness is in fact the nature of spiritual life! All else is spiritual death!

Righteousness cannot be demonstrated without grace & it’s in grace we fulfill the law. Any spiritual power or strength that God gives, He gives to be exercised according to His will--Those powers not thus subject to and controlled by His will are not powers of God's grace but rather workings of the rebellious will of the flesh. God's grace is abundant but it enables us to do His Will and Only His Will and Nothing but His Will. True grace functions only in accordance with God's perfect law which is spiritual manifesting in the physical. Every bestowal of God's grace fulfills in the receiver the demands of God's law. The flesh of course rejecting God's grace falls short of God's law but the new man fulfills the righteousness of the law in which he delights.

That is why the bible says:
Romans 8:4
That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit .

Anytime man tries to be righteous by the letter devoid of the Spirit, he is being self-righteous but there is a righteousness of the law of the Spirit which is the intent and purpose and reason why such laws even came into being and this was what Jesus expressly showed when he walked the earth in human form. His wasn’t some legalistic, ‘tick-the-box’ submission to God. Jesus is THE WORD OF GOD and as such all he did or said was the very real and original purpose of God. Acts 1:1.

Grace comes with great responsibility on a higher plane and pedestal than the law...but Jesus is there to help. Grace goes the extra mile than the law (of the letter) for it is at a plane that makes the believer blameless. Grace handled the believer from the source, the heart. Matthew 5.


Finally, the demand of the law and supply of grace can be weighed on a scale in 3 key forms:

Legalism/Self Righteousness: This is the concept of spiritual life that excludes God's grace. It is common today, as it has always been. (Romans 9:30-32). When trust in placed in the flesh rather than the ability of imparted grace to fulfil God’s word, it is self-righteousness. This type of righteous works is the flesh attempt at meeting a standard--Whether recognizing God's law or any other code as that standard, it is a trust not in grace through faith but in the flesh. ANYTHING CAN BECOME LEGALISTIC.
Even in this grace convention, there are rules that apply as stated from the beginning. While people can understand the spirit of it and gracefully fulfil it, it can become legalistic. All is based on the heart. The convention could as well go on without any laws since we are ‘under grace’ but as long as people are prone to walk in the flesh….the law is ever present to point out their wrong. With reference to humanity, what the Father demands of us, the Son condescends to fulfill and supply in us and for us. So also the Holy Spirit is associated with righteousness. The fulfillment of law through grace is a demonstration of holiness.

Lawlessness: Equally damaging, however, is that doctrine that excludes law. Law is control and grace is power. Those who teach the doctrine of grace without law are teaching divine power without divine control. Power without control is dangerous in any realm whether physical, political, or ecclesiastical, governmental, intellectual, and certainly spiritual. This is the doctrine of lawlessness. Satan, its originator, will bring it to full manifestation in the man of sin, the lawless one.

God’s righteousness/Spirit-Led: This is someone who has handed his all to Christ and works based on the WORD of GOD whether captured in the Law of the Letter or not. God wanted the Israelites to walk according to His WORD not passed as a Law. This person walks according to the law of the Spirit many examples as quoted in the earthly ministry of Christ. Gal. 5:22 shows the fruit.

The two men on the way to Emmaus had knowledge of the law & prophets but took Jesus Christ to explain and interpret to them about Himself. He had to open the eyes of their understanding even though they had the knowledge. The Law is Spiritual & it takes the Spirit to remove the veil.

My prayer is that we will continually delight in the law of God after the inward man, which will renew of hearts, renounce our flesh and avail ourselves of God’s grace.
May we receive and hold the gospel preached unto us with faith so it will profit us eternally. Heb. 4:2.




Instead of Using “I am Human” as an excuse to walk in the flesh, try using “I am Saved” as a reason to walk in the Spirit. That is why grace is ever abundant.


CONCLUDED

CHAPTER 2
The Supply of the Grace

Grace, I will opine, as favour shown to the unworthy and the divine ability to do things God’s way; this could be divine ability for salvation and divine ability to do what we would not normally be able to do and it comes as a result of being connected to Jesus Christ, His Son. Jesus, while on earth was the fulness of the Spirit, of truth and grace. He was the confirmation of what God said when the Israelites rejected God’s words to them on Sinai. While He wanted to deal with them in words, they wanted it in laws.

Acts 3:22-23
22 Thus Moses said to the forefathers, The Lord God will raise up for you a Prophet from among your brethren as [He raised up] me; Him you shall listen to and understand by hearing and heed in all things whatever He tells you.
23 And it shall be that every soul that does not listen to and understand by hearing and heed that Prophet shall be utterly [exterminated from among the people.

The first mention of ‘grace’ in the bible was where Noah found grace is the sight of God. Later, Abraham believed God and it was counted to him for righteousness. Belief was the vehicle that carried ability to receive grace.

Such grace was often as a result of a good standing with God and usually to a selected few who received it. The kingdom of Israel received grace from God but the difference was that they did not have the spirit that would match that grace so as to have the ability to please God.
All through the books of the bible we see God’s grace at work. Many people have the erroneous notion that the OT is all law and the NT is all grace. Some liberals even maintain that the God of the OT is harsh and vindictive but the God of the NT is tender and forgiving. Some people think that OT believers were saved by keeping the law and NT believers are saved by grace through faith!

Of course these misapprehensions are not totally made up; there is much more of a gracious framework to the NT than to the OT. But God never changes; only His dealings change as conditions and times change. In both Testaments people are saved by grace through faith.
No one can ever be made right in God's sight by doing what the law commands. For the more we know of God's laws, the clearer it becomes that we aren't obeying them; his laws serve only to make us see that we are sinners. His laws show us that we need a special ability to be able to do what he really wants us to do.

But now God has shown us a different way to heaven -- not by "being good enough" and trying to keep his laws, but by a new way (by believing and heeding to His Son: JESUS CHRIST). Now God says he will accept and acquit us - declare us "not guilty" - if we trust Jesus Christ to take away our sins. And we all can be saved in this same way, by coming to Christ, no matter who we are or what we have been like.
Yes, all have sinned; all fall short of God's glorious ideal; yet now God declares us "not guilty" of offending him if we trust in Jesus Christ, who in his kindness freely takes away our sins.

For God sent Christ Jesus to take the punishment for our sins and to end all God's anger against us. He used Christ's blood and our faith as the means of saving us from his wrath. That is grace!
The bible says the law was given by Moses BUT Grace and truth came by Jesus Christ. Grace and truth brought life and righteousness which the law was unable to do.
Jesus is the fullness of Grace, when he walked on earth and after he left He sent the comforter and the Spirit of grace to guide us in all truth. Grace was poured out beyond measure for all to receive just by belief in Him. No more did man have to perish due to the flesh but because of God’s infinite love He was able to draw all men to himself.

Numbers 21:5-6,8-9
5 And the people spake against God, and against Moses, Wherefore have ye brought us up out of Egypt to die in the wilderness? for there is no bread, neither is there any water; and our soul loatheth this light bread.
6 And the Lord sent fiery serpents among the people, and they bit the people; and much people of Israel died.
8 And the Lord said unto Moses, Make thee a fiery serpent, and set it upon a pole: and it shall come to pass, that every one that is bitten, when he looketh upon it, shall live.
9 And Moses made a serpent of brass, and put it upon a pole, and it came to pass, that if a serpent had bitten any man, when he beheld the serpent of brass, he lived.

The scripture above is another example of grace in the wilderness which Jesus indicated that this bronze serpent was a foreshadowing of Him. The serpent, a symbol of judgment due to sin, was lifted up from the earth and put on a tree, which was a symbol of a curse. The serpent lifted up and cursed symbolized Jesus, who takes away sin from everyone who would look to Him in faith.
If you look at it from another angle, what brought death initially, brought life when it was looked on with belief.

It is by grace we are saved and it is the gift. Grace which encapsulated God’s love has what we need to come to God and stay with God.

Hebrews 4:15-16
15 For we do not have a High Priest Who is unable to understand and sympathize and have a shared feeling with our weaknesses and infirmities and liability to the assaults of temptation, but One Who has been tempted in every respect as we are, yet without sinning.
16 Let us then fearlessly and confidently and boldly draw near to the throne of grace (the throne of God’s unmerited favor to us sinners), that we may receive mercy [for our failures] and find grace to help in good time for every need [appropriate help and well-timed help, coming just when we need it].
Verse 15 shows us that it is God’s infinite love that made Him send His son to share in the weakness we had as flesh, and show us the grace that raises us above sin. Grace shows us that we have the right to God’s mercy when we fail and we have the ability to rise and have the help to live in the same mind with Him.

Titus 2:11-14 further shows us that Jesus, God’s grace, appeared to all men bringing the much needed salvation and teaches us to live above ungodliness and lawlessness. This can only be received in Christ Jesus. In Him we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.
Grace is no more a license to sin than electricity is a license to electrocute yourself. Grace, like electricity is meant to bring life not death and there is no life in sin.

Good morning brethren,
I am truly honoured to be a worthy vessel in the hands of the Lord Almighty and for making my hands the pen of a ready writer. Appreciation once again to those who chose to hear me and the brains behind the platform to share and publish the word of God. I will like to add that lots have been discussed by many of us on this forum regarding the law and grace so I will be as simple as possible taking a different direction from prior discusses. I may not quote too many scriptures but can provide if any grey area is noted and raised in any questions we may have.



(GRACE 1): THE DEMANDS OF THE LAW AND THE SUPPLY OF THE GRACE OF GOD

Foreward: Has anyone ever ruminated on how heaven was before the fall of Satan (i.e. when he rebelled)? Satan was with God always and was fully part of the grace of God yet he fell? Even though the bible does not tell us much about the time before the creation of man, it can be perceived that after God created his heavenly son, he did not give them any law and all heaven basked in his omnipotence.

Let us fast forward to the creation of man and the command of God regarding the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. After the instruction by God, man disobeyed. Pertinent to remember is what Eve told the devil when he asked her to recant what God told her…she must have heard God’s instruction from her husband and gave second-hand information yet if we compare what God told Adam and what Eve told Satan, we will notice a difference. God spoke His word to Adam which he informed his wife and Eve stated it as a law to the devil (do not even touch..if Eve was a lawgiver that is what she would have added)…Compare the below noting the highlights.

God Speaking:
Genesis 2:17
But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die

Eve Speaking:
Genesis 3:3
But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.
What I just presented above is for our rumination and deep meditation and whatever questions I asked are rhetoric.


CHAPTER 1
The Demands of the Law

After the fall of man, we see God deal with people individually usually due to the good heart they displayed like Enoch, Noah and Abraham. God is righteous and created man to live and fellowship with him. God is Love and because this is His nature, all He wanted from man was also to be this same nature with him so they can walk together for as scripture says can two walk together except they agree and what fellowship has light with darkness. Just take a look at how he related with Abraham especially and the bible even records it that Abraham was the FRIEND of God. They both walked and talked together and had deep trust for each other so much that God swore by Himself and gave a promise and an oath…two immutable things… in which it was impossible for God to lie that in blessing he would bless Abraham. Such was the relationship they both had.

Abraham must have been so close to God that the mind and desires of God must have been etched in the heart of Abraham so much that God could say that He trusted Abraham would teach his household to keep God’s way and attend to his laws, statutes and judgements inscribed in Abraham’s heart as a result of the walk with God. While Abraham was obeying and heeding to every command or instruction God gave him, he was either knowingly or unknowingly observing whatever law God may have given at that time for he seemed to understand the principles and the basis for what God often wanted to do. His total faith in God is today the reason why many of us are privileged to be in the Faith due to the promise he received.

Therefore, why did the law have to come in? The law was demanding of man what he wasn’t giving it. Why was there need for a systematic body of rules to govern behavior enforced in place of the wonderful loving relationship of hearing directly the word of God and in quiet and reverential obedience doing that which should come naturally?
Let us keep in mind that God gave commands and instructions right from creation and penalties were attached to disobeying them. However a formal structure was put in place by Moses to which a default usually led to a merciless punishment either by man/special atonement or often swiftly by God.

Galatians 3:19; 21; 23-24 tells us that the law came because of transgressions till the promised seed would come. The law was a school master that brought us to Christ when we acknowledge we cannot please God of ourselves only by His supernatural strength when we believe. And this law was not against the promise of God…At all.

The above scriptures capture the essence for why the law was given and written. The law was added due to sin & unrighteousness, a demand so stringent, it had been stripped of the grace that could have gone with it had it been it had been a communication between God and his people directly and the faithlessness that characterized not wanting to hear God directly, governed by unhealthy fear. No wonder something as basic as loving God and your neighbor as yourself had to be broken down to an endless list of rules and regulations as common with dealing with children and written in stone. Because people were prone to go after strange God’s, up to their mode of dressing and their relations had to be micro-managed so that they did not act like the heathens did. All these laws were the breakdown of the main law of the Spirit God had wanted to write in the hearts of man for He said
‘I will put my laws in their minds and write them on their hearts. I will be their God, and they will be my people’ (Heb. 8:10; Jer. 31:33)

The genesis of this was when the people refused to hear God’s voice at Sinai; they instead requested for a mediator because of fear:

Exodus 20:19 And they said to Moses, You speak to us and we will listen, but let not God speak to us, lest we die

God who had just delivered them from Egypt with His mighty hand of power became someone they refused to listen to but preferred to listen to ‘limited’ man rather than God. Such was their transgressions, fear and unbelief. (Exodus 20).

Jeremiah 7:22-23 Read v24.
22 For I spake not unto your fathers, nor commanded them in the day that I brought them out of the land of Egypt, concerning burnt offerings or sacrifices:
23 But this thing commanded I them, saying, Obey my voice, and I will be your God, and ye shall be my people: and walk ye in all the ways that I have commanded you, that it may be well unto you.
JESUS returned as that Voice/Word/Truth/Light/Life.

The laws written down by Moses and all words of the prophets are surmmarised as two by Jesus Christ in Spirit - Love. All the rules were just to direct the behavior God expected from man and show people the need for the promise He gave to Abraham for none could keep all those rules. In a bid to even keep these laws, man lost sight of the plot and rather either found ways to bypass the main reason (Spirit/intent/principle) God gave such laws or defeat the entire purpose of it. A cute example is the picture inset.

It's a practical example of the verse below:
GALATIANS 5:4 You have become estranged from Christ, you who attempt to be justified by Law; you have fallen from grace.

This young baby is justified by the letter of the law…she did not ‘touch’ it (with hands). But in all sincerity is she truly justified having lost the spirit? Jesus is the end of the law FOR righteousness, for He brought in an even higher pedestal of the Spirit which is even harder to keep except through Him.

2 Corinthians 3:15-16
15 But to this day whenever Moses is read, a veil lies over their heart;
16 but whenever a person turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away

Because man’s spirit had died to God at the fall, the Spirit of the laws given, i.e. the reason and purpose of it for our good could not be understood except by a limited few as a result of their constant walk with God. The veil covering the main purpose of God’s mind is removed in Christ Jesus through faith. The flesh profits nothing.

Romans 8:2-4
2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh
4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit

Those two laws as shown above reflects the disparity of a life led by the Spirit and the one led by the flesh. We are subject to God’s laws but if we can live our lives in oneness with His Spirit through Christ Jesus, we will live at a higher plane and altitude rather than in the flesh and live at the altitude of turbulence and weather vagaries of this world.

Paul said the law is Spiritual but he was carnal. He said that the law was made for those ‘under the law’ which the bible clearly tells us are those who walk in the flesh and not in the Spirit. Gal. 5:18-22 identifies the Work & the Walk.

Good morning all,
Please expect my submission shortly.
Apologies for the slight delay.

^^^^^^

Sadly you wrote so much up there yet got lost in the whole plot:

Deuteronomy 22:28-29
28 If a man finds a girl who is a virgin, who is not betrothed, and he seizes her and lies with her and they are found
29 Then the man who lay with her shall give to the girl’s father fifty shekels of silver, and she shall be his wife, because he has VIOLATED her; he may not divorce her all his days Same as Exodus 22:16-17

The person DID WRONG...pure robbery. It is the hardness of their heart that made such penalty just like they killed animals for penalty of their sins or had to refund back what was stolen. IT WAS A SIN. The man VIOLATED the girl!!!!!!! The only way to make her 'NOT A PROSTITUTE' was to marry her in those days. This was exactly what happened here:

Genesis 34:31
And they said, Should he deal with our sister as with an harlot?
I will leave you to read the whole story and see how it is seen in Israel those days to sleep with a woman when she wasn't married to the person.

Oh and by the way, all the scriptures above were actually talking about RA.PE. Concensual se.x between two unmarried couples is same as wh.oredome and harlotry. Same as sleeping with someone's future husband or wife.

Leviticus 21:14
A widow, or a divorced woman, or defiled, or a harlot, these shall he not take: but he shall take a virgin of his own people as wife
A woman as defined there was either a widow, divorced, defiled/rap.ed, a harlot, a virgin or married.
If this does not explain anything to you then I wonder what will


LOVE is the FULFILMENT OF THE LAW....When you love someone you don't VIOLATE THEM. LETTER OF THE LAW vs SPIRIT OF THE LAW. It was due to the hardness of their hearts that they are given such penalties. It is still stated there....the man has to make her his wife meaning he has extra marital relations. I noted you smartly avoided I Corinthians 7:36 I quoted but Jesus has said it all.

People go scot free today without such stiff penalities but does it make it less a sin.

Jesus the Word Himself said:

Matthew 5:28
But I can guarantee that whoever looks with lust at a woman has already committed adultery in his heart

You do not lust after what you have in this case. It is after what is not thiers that makes a man lust.

I wish you well in your bible study. Your posts falls on all points and cannot stand beside the word of God. So long.

newken: @ alwaystrue.
Deuteronomy 22:17,20-21 is a classic example of what i have been saying. The Man paid a a full pride price for a Virgin. Non virgins get married dont they? They are worth less than Virgins.

That man either wanted a refund after sleeping with the wife or just wanted to disgrace the man by accusing him of selling a prostitute to him for Virgin Price.

Virgins were worth more. Just like it is today. you don't want to marry a slut claiming virgin. Would you take it lightly with the father if you actually paid a high cost because of her Virginity Status.

Wow, so he wanted to disgrace the man who 'sold the prostitute' to him not the supposed 'prostitute'? So you can actually call a non-virgin a prostitute then. Yet this was what the bible said:

Deuteronomy 2:13-14a
13 If a man takes a wife and, after sleeping with her, dislikes her
14a and slanders her and gives her a bad name, saying

And the best way 'not to take it lightly' with the father who 'sold' the supposed 'damaged goods' was to stone the girl to death. Was your interpretation up there based on the flesh or the Spirit please? I would be careful to answer that.

newken: 21 then they shall bring out the girl to the doorway of her father's house, and the men of her city shall stone her to death because she has committed an act of[b] folly [/b]in Israel by playing the HARLOT in her father's house; thus you shall purge the evil from among you.

In the instance of the above verse there was already a contract of marriage while the girl still lived in her fathers house. it is only when a lady has a covenant of marriage that she is condemned for playing the harlot, because this is adultery, which is punishable by death.

@newken, really?!

Deuteronomy 22:15-16
15 then the young woman’s father and mother shall bring to the town elders at the gate proof that she was a virgin.
16 Her father will say to the elders,
Did you miss this part? Did it occur to you that playing the harlot in the fathers house meant that she was defiled while she was staying with the father (as unwedded) and not with the husband? And that was why the husband said he did not MEET HIS WIFE A VIRGIN ON THE WEDDING NIGHT?! Is that not what all this is about...The man TOOK A WIFE... Educate me on contract of marriage and convenant of marriage please.

Does bringing the WIFE to the doorway of her fathers house mean either of the below to you:

- She was part of the FAMILY/VILLAGE MEETING that was ongoing and after the verdict she was killed at the doorway of her father's house since she was 'sold' (in your words) from his house anyway.

- She was sent back to her father's house after the 'discovery' which led to the family/village meeting in the first place so she was only brought out and stoned.

newken: As strange as this may seem, God never condemns either men sleeping with whores, or unmarried women who are whores. According to scripture, if a man has sex with an unmarried woman, it was not considered adultery! God sentenced married men to death for adultery, married women to death for adultery, unmarried men to death for adultery, but never does He sentence unmarried women to death for adultery.

Yet we have

Deuteronomy 23:17
There shall be no wh.ore of the daughters of Israel, nor a sodomite of the sons of Israel

1 Corinthians 6:9
Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind

It is obvious you have decided to close your eyes to the scriptures that show this. And its is strange you missed that whoremongers will not inherit the kingdom of God. You just admitted a girl who was not found a virgin and was wedded to a man was seen as being 'SOLD A PROSTITUTE'...with your very own words.

newken: It was never a sin for a lady to have sex before marriage. Only The priests family was mandated by God not to go into prostitution. God also frowned at parents forcing daughters into prostitution. infact, God commanded his prophet, Hosea, to take a wife who was a LovePeddler, so he did (Hosea 1:2-3). She was a LovePeddler living inside Israel.

Hear yourself and what did Hosea 1 say:

Hosea 1:2
When the Lord first began speaking to Israel through Hosea, he said to him, “Go and marry a prostitute, so that some of her children will be conceived in prostitution. THIS WILL ILLUSTRATE HOW ISRAEL HAS ACTED LIKE A PROSTITUTE BY TURNING AGAINST THE LORD and worshiping other gods.”

Note the FULL CONTEXT of the instruction to Hosea and the reason for it and please come back and say you were joking when you quoted the above.

newken: The Bible does not forbid premarital sex. There is no passage of the Bible that references premarital sex as a sin against God. The association between sin and premarital sex is a new Christian idea. The only possible reference to premarital sex being a sin in the Bible is in the New Testament. This premise although, is generally dismissed by theologians because the Greek word pornei, or sexual immorality is commonly incorrectly translated into the English word fornication.

Deuteronomy 22:17,20-21
16 "The girl's father shall say to the elders, 'I gave my daughter to this man for a wife, but he turned against her;
17 and behold, he has charged her with shameful deeds, saying, "I did not find your daughter a virgin." But this is the evidence of my daughter's virginity.' And they shall spread the garment before the elders of the city.
18 "So the elders of that city shall take the man and chastise him,
20"But if this charge is true, that the girl was not found a virgin,
21 then they shall bring out the girl to the doorway of her father's house, and the men of her city shall stone her to death because she has committed an act of folly in Israel by playing the HARLOT in her father's house; thus you shall purge the evil from among you

The bolded is proof enough to show a man can sleep with a virgin he married and later lie that she wasn't one and proof is shown to the elders in her favour who will punish him. Woe betide the bride who was claiming afterall we 'want to marrry' and sleeps with her fiancee and he turns against her later. Note 'FATHER's HOUSE and GAVE HER TO THIS MAN FOR A WIFE'.

I Corinthians 7:36
But if a man thinks that he's treating his fiancee improperly and will inevitably give in to his passion, let him marry her as he wishes. It is not a sin

Above are two scriptures both old and new that makes your OP fall like a pack of lies. That's what happens with the truth. Do you want Jesus words as well? May the Lord help you.

@OP,
This your topic is dead on arrival. You defined it yourself - 'PRE' marital sex is not same as MARITAL sex. As long as a woman is not (YET) your wife or a man is not (YET) your husband it is against the will of God.

A man leaves his father and mother and cleaves to HIS WIFE...

Do not let the letter kill you. What is the Spirit of the message. Fornication is any non marital sex. Marriage involves GIVING AWAY THE WOMAN to the man by the Father primarily.

A man's way appears right in his own eyes and it leads to destruction.

@Noblewife, mighty congrats on your baby. May the baby bring greater happiness and favour yo your home. I rejoice with you.

@Abibaby and @Nezzel, this is great news. After 52 days Nezzel it is confirmed. @Abibaby, despite infection where man advised it is until you treat it that you can conceive, it still happened. This is to prove to to you that if a man looks at the wind he will not sow or the clouds he will not reap.


@udobaby, where are you?

Ecclesiastic 11:4-6
4 Farmers who wait for perfect weather never plant. If they watch every cloud, they never harvest.

5 Just as you cannot understand the path of the wind or the mystery of a tiny baby growing in its mother's womb, so you cannot understand the activity of God, who does all things.

6 Plant your seed in the morning and keep busy all afternoon, for you don't know if profit will come from one activity or another--or maybe both.

If the above scripture never meant anything to you before, please read it again today and see the correlation. Never let the report of a man hinder you from your conjugal duties. It is mysterious how God works for it is he that does all things.


@ayaakanoh, lovely song. Thank you. It is the month of August. Expect a visitation, an August visitor.


@favouredgal, how is LO? What is wonderful recollection. 15 testimonies. The Lord is doing another wonder. Remember the word from a sister who said it is another season of outpouring.

@mums and dads who experienced delay and we're part of the thread but have since moved on, this Word is for you:

and when you have returned, strengthen your brethren.