₦airaland Forum

Seun:
Claims of the Prophet's illiteracy may have been grossly exaggerated, but even if they are true, being illiterate only means that you cannot read or write. An illiterate can be creative and have a good memory.

The Prophet composed the verses over a period of many many years, memorized them, and taught them to his friends, who also memorized them. This is exactly how most societies passed on their traditions and myths from generation to generation before writing became a thing. There is nothing remarkable or supernatural about this.

His claim to have met a supernatural entity are easily explained as untruths. Many of his revelations are obviously self-serving such as the one permitting only himself to take more than 4 wives when he wished to do so, and those promising rich rewards to young men who died in battle when he was in need of fighters.

If you believe the Prophet's revelations came from a supreme supernatural entity who created the universe, then you should be a Muslim. Why are you not a Muslim?

The question is wether Mohamed encountered a supernatural being. I don't know how u can possibly argue he didn't if you know anything about his history and how he was deeply traumatized and changed by the experience. It is easy to tell what parts of the Koran were inspired. They came complete and perfect, you can't add or subtract a word, which is why it can't be translated without losing something.

I said most enduring religions were initiated by an encounter with the supernatural. Why don't you ask me why I'm not a Jew or Hindu or worship Yoruba gods?

Seun:
Name the single "supernatural" phenomenon that you consider to be the most impressive and difficult to explain, and I will explain it to you.
If you want to talk about prophecies, tell me about the most impressive prophesy that you have witnessed and I will explain it to you. This is not to say that there is nothing I can't explain, but the most common phenomena that people consider to be supernatural are easy to explain.


The popularity of a belief is no indication of its truthfulness. You have to know why people believe what they believe. If the reason for a belief is sketchy, it is unlikely to be true. If the reason for a belief is sound and reasonable, it is likely to be true. We humans are very gullible as children. We tend to believe, and continue to believe, whatever our parents tell us during our formative years, whether they are right or wrong, beneficial, or harmful. Through this mechanism, religious ideas have been passed on for centuries, despite being incorrect and harmful.


It's certainly possible to think that you "know" something without being able to explain it, but such "knowledge" is unlikely to be accurate.


This is an idea that you made up because it fits your existing beliefs. You've not taken any steps to determine whether it's actually true or not.

Once again thanks for taking the time despite having so much to do and read.

Seun I am really surprised at you. Why pick an argument you are sure to quickly and easily lose?
OK, here goes :
** I was in the audience when a preacher predicted the planes flying into the World Trade towers in New York years before it happend. Explain that?
**Prophet Mohamed, totally and completely illiterate, was able to dictate the whole Koran, which he said was put on his lips by a supernatural entity he encountered while fasting in the caves. Explain that.
** St. Paul, bent on killing Christians, became the greatest proponent of Christianity after an encounter with a supernatural entity. Explain that
** Countless prophesies, miracles, prayers answered, lives dramatically transformed, etc.
Nostradamas' prophecies of hundreds of years ago still coming true till today. Explain all that.
------------------
It is not about just popularity of belief as I'm sure you very well know. If it's prophesied thousands of years ahead of time that a special person was coming and that person comes and says he is the one prophesied about and that his words would be around for thousands of years and, thousands of years later, it turns out he was right, there has to be something real there, though unexplainable by logic and science. The truth is that most enduring religions are initiated by an encounter with a supernatural entity and (initially at least) sustained and backed by that entity.
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Call it intuition, gut feeling, or what u will, but sometimes people simply KNOW, and they know with a certainty better than any scientific theory. Yet they are unable to explain how they know.
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I didn't make up the idea of us not knowing the true nature of reality at all. It is an obvious fact.
Any person who had access to your brain can make u perceive anything and anyhow, regardless of what is actually there. You have no way of knowing if anything exists outside your head, nor it's true nature. For all I know, this could be one long dream I'm having. The universe didn't have to be set up that way, which makes one suspect this whole thing could be a set-up.
--------------------
Finally, Seun, u r a smart person. How can u possibly hang your belief system on the following!!! :

----Someone says he is guessing there could have been a big bang out of nothing, while admitting he knows absolutely nothing about 96% of what he is guessing about!? Calling it dark matter/dark energy. (That means scientists can study only 4% of the PHYSICAL universe. Not to talk of other possible aspects of the universe that are completely beyond our equipments and imagination).

DeepEyes:
1. What is this religion's esoteric "proof" of which you speak? Id like to understand you.

2. From what I know so far, religion bases it's doctrines on ancient teachings of God/Allah, while always whitewashing or ignoring his perceived shortcomings (things he did that they *secretly* do not approve) in their bid to assume perfection for a POSSIBLY imperfect deity. This is an ASSUMPTION! So how is religion any Superior?

1) Here are some of their "proofs":
**Prophet Mohamed, totally and copletely illiterate, was able to dictate the whole Koran, which he said was put on his lips by a supernatural entity he encountered while fasting in the caves.
** St. Paul, bent on killing Christians, became the greatest proponent of Christianity after an encounter with a supernatural entity.
** Countless prophesies, miracles, prayers answered, lives dramatically transformed, etc.
Nostradamus' prophecies, made hundreds of years ago are still coming true today.

2) Remember u r the one who wrote the following:

[["There's obviously an origin/source/creator but its probably not that "God" depicted by religion as an attention-seeking insecure being."]]

And I was the one who pointed out to u that God didn't have to be perfect, that they were only describing him as he presented himself to them and that there was no reason he couldn't be as they described. I'm glad you have since come to see it that way also.
Most enduring religions are initiated by a direct encounter with a spernatural being.

DeepEyes:
1. What is this religion's esoteric "proof" of which you speak? Id like to understand you.

2. From what I know so far, religion bases it's doctrines on ancient teachings of God/Allah, while always whitewashing or ignoring his perceived shortcomings (things he did that they *secretly* do not approve) in their bid to assume perfection for a POSSIBLY imperfect deity. This is an ASSUMPTION! So how is religion any Superior?

1) Here are some of the "proofs":
**Prophet Mohamed, totally and copletely illiterate, was able to dictate the whole Koran, which he said was put on his lips by a supernatural entity he encountered while fasting in the caves.
** St. Paul, bent on killing Christians, became the greatest proponent of Christianity after an encounter with a supernatural entity.
** Countless prophesies, miracles, prayers answered, lives dramatically transformed, etc.
Nostradamas' prophecies, made thousands of years ago are still coming true till today

geoworldedu:
Guy don't go there o. If this guy explains spirituality for you, then you will have no choice than to start reasoning out of the books. Go and read the revelation he claims his own god Atum the brother of Jehovah is revealing to him. You won't remain d same again.


https://www.nairaland.com/2938907/

That his particular submission I refered to is very good. That doesn't mean his post u refered was not non-sensical.

hammer6:
Please Igbo is distinguished from Niegria. They are not the samething.

Wen u request ethnic group of a Nigerian, u are making a distinction from the general collective.

She said, she is not Nigerian.

Do u know what "subset" means? Who said Igbo and 9ja are the same thing? As she rightly said she is British but of 9ja or more specifically Igbo heritage.

aaronson:
Your question is so invalid. its like you asking what's the colour of air?

consciousness in man is the 'being' in you that makes you exist and you only know you exist because you think you are. A dead person can't exist because they can't think for them self that they do so yes, consciousness is the
reason you thought to even quote me.

Here is what u wrote:
[["Now, living things in this same universe such as me you and other living things can NOT die because we don't really exist, we only change form. 

Note- You only confused because of the following:

1 - you trying to make sense of a dead universe because you have consciousness which the universe lacks."]]

While congratulating u for thinking outside the box, I have to also say u make no sense:

How can something that does not exist change form? And u never answered the question: where does that consciousness or "being" in u as u put it come from? That's the discussion of this thread.

Profkenny1:
Here you go guys! Sorry, I've been busy with writing a proposal due on Friday.

The earliest and most direct observational evidence of the validity of the theory are^a:

1. The expansion of the universe according to Hubble's law (as indicated by the redshifts of galaxies),
2. Discovery and measurement of the cosmic microwave background, and
3. The relative abundances of light elements produced by Big Bang nucleosynthesis

I am also attaching a pdf document. Please study it and also expand your knowledge by going through the references.

Africa must rise...Let's break the jinx of "If you want to hide anything from a black man hide it inside a book, he will NEVER find it!"

a Partridge, R. B. (2007). 3K: The Cosmic Microwave Background Radiation (illustrated ed.). Cambridge University Press

I don't have to understand what u have written to know your "evidence" is hogwash, dubious at best - when you start off by admitting you know absolutely nothing about 96% of what you are theorizing about.

What's your take on this my reply to Seun?

Since you claim to KNOW, what's the EVIDENCE for all of this?

I don't claim to know at all. I'm just pointing out who it makes more sense to believe.

Deicide:
Who told you that animals don't communicate or talk to each just because you don't understand Chinese does it mean China people don't talk gosh

Who has ever said animals don't communicate?
Look, animals have been evolving same period as man or longer, yet show me an animal you think will soon start writing like a child. If u r honest with yourself, the truth is that the difference between man and other animals rivals the difference between living and non-living things.

What's your take on this my reply to Seun? (And the one below that, to TLuzzie?)

luvmijeje:
Seun, can you see your life? You're not different from an average Christian.

And you have the gut to criticize Christians.

Don't ban me o.

No, Seun will not ban u for this. He is too fair a guy for that. But he also will not put this thread on front page - it too much debunks atheism

ScepticalPyrrho:
You can ask the same for a "supreme eternal being" if it is assumed to be existing.
Which animal isn't unique in its own way?
What makes man so special?

I still maintain the difference between man and other animals rivals the difference between living and non-living things. Animals have been evolving longer or equal time period as man, yet non is any where near talking or writing like a human child.

What's your take on this my reply to Seun? (And the one below that, to TLuzzie?)

Here it is:

1) So u say u can explain prophesies and other supernatural stuff. Go ahead and explain, we are all ears. And while u r at it, also explain to us how u know for sure that anything exists outside yourself, in other words how u know that all this is not happening only in your head.

2) Remember I said I'd be more inclined to believe you. It is a matter of probability. Be honest, who would u be more inclined to believe: someone who is supported by thousands of people over thousands of years and all sorts of supernatural stuff OR someone who says he is guessing there could have been a big bang out of nothing, while admitting he knows absolutely nothing about 96% of what he is guessing about!? They call it dark matter/dark energy. (That means scientists can study only 4% of the PHYSICAL universe. Not to talk of other possible aspects of the universe that are completely beyond our equipments and imagination)

3. The question is: is it possible, in this our universe, to KNOW something and yet not be able to explain it or give proof about it? I believe the answer is yes. So if one says he is not sure about the answers to the questions of this thread, he should not also go ahead to say that nobody else knows.

In conclusion, I believe this our reality was intentionally set up such that it is impossible to fully understand it's true nature and be able to logically or scientifically explain it, while still in it.
Religion takes that into account. Atheists (logic and science) don't.

Expatiating, this one to TLuzzie:

See, the thing is that you admit you don't know. Which is understandable because you are very limited - you even have no way of knowing if anything exists outside yourself.
Someone else emphatically say they know without a doubt based on things beyond your limited understanding. Then they support their claim with things beyond your limited purview: prophesies, miracles, prayers answered, lives dramatically transformed, etc.
See, what you should say is that you don't know and stop there. Don't say nobody else knows. You are way too limited to say that.

luvmijeje:
Seun, when it comes to Christian's thread, you're always forming professor of Bible.

This is your area of specialization o, don't run from my questions.

What's your take on this my reply to Seun? (And the one below that, to TLuzzie?)

Here it is:

1) So u say u can explain prophesies and other supernatural stuff. Go ahead and explain, we are all ears. And while u r at it, also explain to us how u know for sure that anything exists outside yourself, in other words how u know that all this is not happening only in your head.

2) Remember I said I'd be more inclined to believe you. It is a matter of probability. Be honest, who would u be more inclined to believe: someone who is supported by thousands of people over thousands of years and all sorts of supernatural stuff OR someone who says he is guessing there could have been a big bang out of nothing, while admitting he knows absolutely nothing about 96% of what he is guessing about!? They call it dark matter/dark energy. (That means scientists can study only 4% of the PHYSICAL universe. Not to talk of other possible aspects of the universe that are completely beyond our equipments and imagination)

3. The question is: is it possible, in this our universe, to KNOW something and yet not be able to explain it or give proof about it? I believe the answer is yes. So if one says he is not sure about the answers to the questions of this thread, he should not also go ahead to say that nobody else knows.

In conclusion, I believe this our reality was intentionally set up such that it is impossible to fully understand it's true nature and be able to logically or scientifically explain it, while still in it.
Religion takes that into account. Atheists (logic and science) don't.

Expatiating, this one to TLuzzie:

See, the thing is that you admit you don't know. Which is understandable because you are very limited - you even have no way of knowing if anything exists outside yourself.
Someone else emphatically say they know without a doubt based on things beyond your limited understanding. Then they support their claim with things beyond your limited purview: prophesies, miracles, prayers answered, lives dramatically transformed, etc.
See, what you should say is that you don't know and stop there. Don't say nobody else knows. You are way too limited to say that.

adepeter26:
Are you a Christian?

Let's start from there

What's your take on this my reply to Seun? (And the one below that, to TLuzzie?)

Halfpenny Tearless Veedkid Happney65
Johnydon22 KingEbukasBlog ahless Hahn
CoolUsername Precision geoworldedu

Here it is:

1) So u say u can explain prophesies and other supernatural stuff. Go ahead and explain, we are all ears. And while u r at it, also explain to us how u know for sure that anything exists outside yourself, in other words how u know that all this is not happening only in your head.

2) Remember I said I'd be more inclined to believe you. It is a matter of probability. Be honest, who would u be more inclined to believe: someone who is supported by thousands of people over thousands of years and all sorts of supernatural stuff OR someone who says he is guessing there could have been a big bang out of nothing, while admitting he knows absolutely nothing about 96% of what he is guessing about!? They call it dark matter/dark energy. (That means scientists can study only 4% of the PHYSICAL universe. Not to talk of other possible aspects of the universe that are completely beyond our equipments and imagination)

3. The question is: is it possible, in this our universe, to KNOW something and yet not be able to explain it or give proof about it? I believe the answer is yes. So if one says he is not sure about the answers to the questions of this thread, he should not also go ahead to say that nobody else knows.

In conclusion, I believe this our reality was intentionally set up such that it is impossible to fully understand it's true nature and be able to logically or scientifically explain it, while still in it.
Religion takes that into account. Atheists (logic and science) don't.

Expatiating, this one to TLuzzie:

See, the thing is that you admit you don't know. Which is understandable because you are very limited - you even have no way of knowing if anything exists outside yourself.
Someone else emphatically say they know without a doubt based on things beyond your limited understanding. Then they support their claim with things beyond your limited purview: prophesies, miracles, prayers answered, lives dramatically transformed, etc.
See, what you should say is that you don't know and stop there. Don't say nobody else knows. You are way too limited to say that.

hopefulLandlord:
actually I'm not being dismissive of his post, his post is full of strawman

Big Bang theory is NOT an atheistic claim! Big Bang was first proposed by a THEIST, Georges Lemaître who was a belgian physicist and ROMAN CATHOLIC PRIEST, and eveb the Pope at the time,The Pius XII, wanted to make it part of the Christian doctrine as "proof of god"

he's making it sound like its atheists that brought the theory

What's your take on this my reply to Seun? (And the one below that, to TLuzzie?)

Here it is:

1) So u say u can explain prophesies and other supernatural stuff. Go ahead and explain, we are all ears. And while u r at it, also explain to us how u know for sure that anything exists outside yourself, in other words how u know that all this is not happening only in your head.

2) Remember I said I'd be more inclined to believe you. It is a matter of probability. Be honest, who would u be more inclined to believe: someone who is supported by thousands of people over thousands of years and all sorts of supernatural stuff OR someone who says he is guessing there could have been a big bang out of nothing, while admitting he knows absolutely nothing about 96% of what he is guessing about!? They call it dark matter/dark energy. (That means scientists can study only 4% of the PHYSICAL universe. Not to talk of other possible aspects of the universe that are completely beyond our equipments and imagination)

3. The question is: is it possible, in this our universe, to KNOW something and yet not be able to explain it or give proof about it? I believe the answer is yes. So if one says he is not sure about the answers to the questions of this thread, he should not also go ahead to say that nobody else knows.

In conclusion, I believe this our reality was intentionally set up such that it is impossible to fully understand it's true nature and be able to logically or scientifically explain it, while still in it.
Religion takes that into account. Atheists (logic and science) don't.

Expatiating, this one to TLuzzie:

See, the thing is that you admit you don't know. Which is understandable because you are very limited - you even have no way of knowing if anything exists outside yourself.
Someone else emphatically say they know without a doubt based on things beyond your limited understanding. Then they support their claim with things beyond your limited purview: prophesies, miracles, prayers answered, lives dramatically transformed, etc.
See, what you should say is that you don't know and stop there. Don't say nobody else knows. You are way too limited to say that.

Also, lalasticlala , mynd44 , ishilove,
expatiating, my reply to TLuzzie:

See, the thing is that you admit you don't know. Which is understandable because you are very limited - you even have no way of knowing if anything exists outside yourself.
Someone else emphatically say they know without a doubt based on things beyond your limited understanding. Then they support their claim with things beyond your limited purview: prophesies, miracles, prayers answered, lives dramatically transformed, etc.
See, what you should say is that you don't know and stop there. Don't say nobody else knows. You are way too limited to say that.

Lalasticlala what do u think of this my reply to Seun? You too Mynd44, Ishilove etc. Who do u side with? Be honest, don't side with a person just because they happen to be your
b_ _s.

Here it is:

1) So u say u can explain prophesies and other supernatural stuff. Go ahead and explain, we are all ears. And while u r at it, also explain to us how u know for sure that anything exists outside yourself, in other words how u know that all this is not happening only in your head.

2) Remember I said I'd be more inclined to believe you. It is a matter of probability. Be honest, who would u be more inclined to believe: someone who is supported by thousands of people over thousands of years and all sorts of supernatural stuff OR someone who says he is guessing there could have been a big bang out of nothing, while admitting he knows absolutely nothing about 96% of what he is guessing about!? They call it dark matter/dark energy. (That means scientists can study only 4% of the PHYSICAL universe. Not to talk of other possible aspects of the universe that are completely beyond our equipments and imagination)

3. The question is: is it possible, in this our universe, to KNOW something and yet not be able to explain it or give proof about it? I believe the answer is yes. So if one says he is not sure about the answers to the questions of this thread, he should not also go ahead to say that nobody else knows.

In conclusion, I believe this our reality was intentionally set up such that it is impossible to fully understand it's true nature and be able to logically or scientifically explain it, while still in it.
Religion takes that into account. Atheists (logic and science) don't.

PrecisionFx:
There's no supernatural stuff supporting the Adam n Eve British story.

The story us same with any other fiction u know.

Did u read my post at all? I said it doesn't matter to this thread.
We are discussing existence/non-existence of a timeless being that created the universe not minutiae of the Bible, Koran or such

DeepEyes:
If this were the atheist argument, wouldn't it be respectable? Lol. Unfortunately, this is more like the agnostic argument. Atheists simply deny the existence of any deity or supreme being (Yahweh, God, Tomato, whatever) and rather go with scientific explanations (which is where the big bang theory usually comes in). THEIR ARGUMENT IS MORE LIKE LIVING​ IN BLATANT DENIAL cos sometimes they get very illogical just to defend it. Like, u snap ur fingers and someone gets a siezure and they say "oh that must have been a coincidence" Then u snap ur fingers again and another person gets a siezure and they still go with coincidence just because they don't want to believe/concede that u have supernatural abilities. See where their argument becomes irritating? The agnostic thinks he's on the same page with the atheist until he suddenly realises that the atheist is actually just hell-bent on denying God, while he just wants to know the truth- very different ambitions!


OtemAtum I see u also have questions in ur mind. U know, I've always said the best way to understand something deeper is to teach it. The little time I've spent writing replies on this thread has opened my mind to a new dimension of thought contrary to what I previous believed. Let me tell u something I just figured out maybe it wud help u understand better. Just take ur time to read:


Actually, we humans overthink the subject of God. We search everywhere except one place- within. We think like mature intelligent beings instead​ of going back to the basics of life in order to find answers about the basis of life. The best answers would be found studying babies and nature and pure creation, not by thinking through our already-biased minds. Afterall, u can tell a bit about an author's personality by reading his/her books, and about an inventor's character by observing his/her inventions, not by THINKING! There's​ a reason why of all the intelligent people who have walked this Earth, no one has ever been able to solve the puzzle. Its because the maker of the puzzle is a cheif puzzler who explicitly doesn't want us (his creation) to figure him out. Wait, don't overthink this too. Lemme explain:


I am a scientist who created a sentient (capable of thinking, planning and creating) robot. Would I want this smart robot to one day figure me out? Would I not try to be as mysterious as possible to prevent a possible backfire? Even if my robot are quite inferior to me, I still have to take precautions. Is this not the same thing we humans are afraid of about creating intelligent Robots? Lol.


Now, what would I do? I would deliberately limit this robot's life span so that it never lives long enough to be WISE enough to figure me out. I would plant misdirections everywhere so that when it seeks knowledge of me it would always get frustrated and give up on the subject. I would create intermittent self-initiating catastrophe to keep my smart robot busy. I would also create several other distractions in it's world (love, purpose, destiny etc) all to keep it occupied over it's lifespan. And no matter how personal I get with my robot, I'd never fully reveal myself to it, for it can use the knowledge of me against me!


This has been our mistake as seekers. We shud start thinking like creators in order to understand creation. The Bible is a great book of sacred knowledge, but it is also a very giant puzzle filled with riddles, misdirections and hidden Truths. Good luck to any man who always reads the Bible LITERALLY. Lol. There's a reason why Jesus always used parables- he's kinda like the creator, and they are really fond of riddles and misdirections he and his dad...or boss (Lol. yes I'm being facetious). Now let me shock you- there is NO perfection in the whole universe. This is one of the Bible tricks, to get mankind searching for a perfect God instead of a supernatural MAN-LIKE being. If u can find my previous replies I gave examples of how the Bible mixes real events with fiction for the sake of their personal agenda- which is what confuses us about God. Truth is, God is like man with SUPER powers. He has vulnerabilities, just like any other scientist genius.


When we created the computer, it developed bugs. When God created the universe, it developed bugs. Look around you, this world has errors (bugs) in it, which mean the inventor, like any other inventor, isn't perfect! At first the creator tried to debug his system, but it had been corrupted beyond redemption that the only way wud be to destroy and rebuild. But building the universe may not have been an easy task for the creator, and no, he isn't as "omnipotent" as the Bible paints. He's just like..say.. heaven Steve Jobs. He's a boss and a genuis and all, but not omnipotent parse. Hes intelligent beyond measure, but not omniscient. So you can actually advice God on what to do next or even negotiate with the creator (Moses did the first, Abraham did the second). But chances are, his ideas wud still be better cos he's super smart- I mean, u designed the computer, he designed the freaking universe in which u exist so *coughs. But he's NOT omniscient. So is it possible that God wud regret something? Absolutely!


Am I saying we can actually challenge God? Yes!! But, you know, you have to have like a very solid death wish to launch such a campaign. Lol.


We humans are pathetic. We are the greatest hypocrites of the Galaxy. We have a problem thinking outside the box once our selfish interest is involved. Why do we think it's okay to eat chickens and cows? Even if ur a vegan, why do we think it's okay to eat plants?...because, Duhh! They're food! Right. Okay. So we can eat stuff we can't​ even create, but God DOESN'T HAVE THE RIGHT TO EAT WHAT HE CREATED An ordinary KING or PRESIDENT​ can command the execution of a whole nation of fellow humans which he cannot even create, But HOW DARE GOD COMMAND EXECUTIONS OF ROBOTS HE CREATED Why do we think this way? Its because we overthink God. We expect perfection from God, but if there are bugs in the system God created then it means he ISN'T perfect, hence we can't just demand/expect perfection from him the same way we can't expect perfection from the makers of iPhones or cars or you name it!


Tell u what, if I created smart robots who began doing stuff on their own sometimes even against me or against my will, chances are I'd love some, hate some, kill some, defend some, punish some for others, be indifferent to some, use some as scapegoats to teach lessons to the ones I like, use some as experiment just for fun, because I freaking created them! I have every damned right to do whatsoever I Please! But if they rebelled and waged war against me, I won't be surprised either since I know I created self-sufficient beings who have my kind of crazy creative swag.


So, the secret is this, stop seeking a perfect flawless creator that is sooo Superior in swag and is omnibullsh!t bla bla bla as the Bible misleads, and start accepting in ur heart that the one who made us is in many ways JUST LIKE US- an imperfect genius-thinker being that, if u think about it, would make a very good friend!

What a wrte-up! Gives so much food for thought.
The only thing is that it is based on the likely faulty assumption that your brain (with which u r reasoning all this) was designed to perceive reality as it truly is. That's why religion is superior. It makes no such assumption. It's "proof" comes from a reality outside our own. A reality beyond our human comprehension, logic, and science.

aaronson:
Irrelevant to do this since you wouldn't believe anyway but summarizing all 3 questions and giving the answer at one breath. The Universe means nothing to you, think of it as you living in dead universe which has space that eventually started as a result of time( the big bang). Now, living things in this same universe such as me you and other living things can NOT die because we don't really exist, we only change form.

Note- You only confused because of the following:

1 - you trying to make sense of a dead universe because you have consciousness which the universe lacks.

2- you living in a programmed matrix such as culture, religion, class struggle, race etc

3- you have been lied to all your life.

4- This my write up will not make sense to you.

D-E-E-P and really out of the box. But raises more questions than it answers, like where did your consciousness come from

swegiedon:
like seriously?? just to let you know he isnt ,no one is limited,but we do all have different reality tunnels,and you saying he is shows your close mindedness on this issue

We simply don't know the true nature of reality. We are limited in that way. That's the simple truth.

This cut-and-paste from my reply to Seun will explain further:

1) So u say u can explain prophesies and other supernatural stuff. Go ahead and explain, we are all ears. And while u r at it, also explain to us how u know for sure that anything exists outside yourself, in other words how u know that all this is not happening only in your head.

2) Remember I said I'd be more inclined to believe you. It is a matter of probability. Be honest, who would u be more inclined to believe: someone who is supported by thousands of people over thousands of years and all sorts of supernatural stuff OR someone who says he is guessing there could have been a big bang out of nothing, while admitting he knows absolutely nothing about 96% of what he is guessing about!?

3. The question is: is it possible, in this our universe, to KNOW something and yet not be able to explain it or give proof about it? I believe the answer is yes. So if one says he is not sure about the answers to the questions of this thread he should not also go ahead to say that nobody else knows.

In conclusion, I believe this our reality was intentionally set up such that it is impossible to fully understand it's true nature and be able to logically or scientifically explain it, while still in it.
Religion takes that into account. Atheists (logic and science) don't.

DeepEyes:
I like ur submission. It pretty much sums up the whole point. Tho I wud point out that u seem to be describing agnostics, not atheist. Atheist are simply the opposite of believers- unbelievers. They are like the south pole of the "belief" magnet, while theists are the North Pole of this same magnet. They are, sadly, just as ignorant as believers, since they also "blindly" believe there's no God WITHOUT evidence to unequivocally PROVE that God doesn't exist (cough **so how are u different from Christianity and Islam. U shud have ur own customised anti-religion Religion so that y'all can fight all day**). I do not personally respect this group, as I regard them with skepticism- in their intelligence they have also resorted to foolery.

Agnostics on the other hand, are the true seekers of truth. They neither agree nor disagree to the existence of a supreme being, only they won't settle for dumb science theories or bullsh!t doctrines unless u supply them with sensible evidence. In the absence of this evidence, the quest goes on, and no conclusions would be drawn. Period.


P.s: The bloody big bang theory should be morphed into a brand new religion too. Maybe then these science-hogging atheists wud realize they've also fallen prey to the brainwash system. Bloody stuupid baseless theory. Something science obviously resorted to for the lack of better alternatives! I mean, this is almighy science we're talking about; they have to come up with some explanation or they'll lose face! Then u hog it like it actually makes any sense, intelligent folks like you?? That theory is shiit, and u shud reject it for what it is while continuing ur seach for something that actually MAKES SENSE! Not gulp it down in servile surrender just cos it came from almighty science. I insist u aren't any better than the gullible religious folk.

@ameri9ja I think by now u already Know where I stand on this subject. There's a supreme being/source alright, but I doubt he's that melodramatic, insecure, inconsistent and misleading Hebrew Yahweh. If a BEING created this universe, I would expect him/her/it to be more......coordinated.

Thanks for your as usual excellent submission. You have just about said it all. The fault I find is a common one: Based on your very limited senses, u r saying people don't know what they claim to know simply because the claim is based on things beyond your understanding.

This cut-and-paste from my reply to Seun will explain further:

1) So u say u can explain prophesies and other supernatural stuff. Go ahead and explain, we are all ears. And while u r at it, also explain to us how u know for sure that anything exists outside yourself, in other words how u know that all this is not happening only in your head.

2) Remember I said I'd be more inclined to believe you. It is a matter of probability. Be honest, who would u be more inclined to believe: someone who is supported by thousands of people over thousands of years and all sorts of supernatural stuff OR someone who says he is guessing there could have been a big bang out of nothing, while admitting he knows absolutely nothing about 96% of what he is guessing about!?

3. The question is: is it possible, in this our universe, to KNOW something and yet not be able to explain it or give proof about it? I believe the answer is yes. So if one says he is not sure about the answers to the questions of this thread he should not also go ahead to say that nobody else knows.

In conclusion, I believe this our reality was intentionally set up such that it is impossible to fully understand it's true nature and be able to logically or scientifically explain it, while still in it.
Religion takes that into account. Atheists (logic and science) don't.

OtemAtum:
I am not an atheist, but we have been existing right from the invention of time and space and we don't cease from existing, but we change state.

IMO, atheists are even more intelligent than theists, because in their search for GOD, they didn't settle down to accept dogs(gods of bad religions) as the CREATOR GOD. It is like when we say food does not exist because we don't know the nature of food yet, and in a bid to prove that food exists, you bring shit and ask us to eat it as food and believe it is food. Those who rejects such shit and keep looking out for a better presentation are better than those who settle down to eat those bitter shits which they are forced to accept as food.

This is the case with yahweh, Allah, Mazda and many other bad gods presented to us as God Almighty. The nature of God is far far different than the nature of the small small gods I mentioned above. So it is better for atheists to die as atheists and then know the truth about the real CREATOR in their afterlives than to accept dogs such as yahweh, allah etc as God Almighty and then be told that they have totally lived a life of error.

I like your excellent submission as well. The fault I find is this : Our understanding of reality being limited, I don't think u r qualified to say someone else does not know what they say they know, simply because their claim is based on things beyond your understanding.

This cut-and-paste from my reply to Seun will explain further:

1) So u say u can explain prophesies and other supernatural stuff. Go ahead and explain, we are all ears. And while u r at it, also explain to us how u know for sure that anything exists outside yourself, in other words how u know that all this is not happening only in your head.

2) Remember I said I'd be more inclined to believe you. It is a matter of probability. Be honest, who would u be more inclined to believe: someone who is supported by thousands of people over thousands of years and all sorts of supernatural stuff OR someone who says he is guessing there could have been a big bang out of nothing, while admitting he knows absolutely nothing about 96% of what he is guessing about!?

3. The question is: is it possible, in this our universe, to KNOW something and yet not be able to explain it or give proof about it? I believe the answer is yes. So if one says he is not sure about the answers to the questions of this thread he should not also go ahead to say that nobody else knows.

In conclusion, I believe this our reality was intentionally set up such that it is impossible to fully understand it's true nature and be able to logically or scientifically explain it, while still in it.
Religion takes that into account. Atheists (logic and science) don't.

Seun:
This is your key mistake. We can explain prophecies, intuition, miracles, warning dreams, and most of the other "supernatural" phenomena.


Actually, with your kind of thinking, I don't have to perform supernatural feats to convince you that I created the universe. I just have to make you believe that I can perform supernatural feats. I just have to be a competent but unethical magician, who pretends that his tricks are real. The testimony of the people who wrote scripture is unreliable because people used to be extremely gullible in the pre-scientific era. There is a story in the bible about Paul and his companion being worshipped as gods because they were bitten by a snake and didn't die. Imagine that!

Thanks again, Seun, for taking the time and for Nairaland. Sorry about the delay in reply, you know how it gets.

1) So u say u can explain prophesies and other supernatural stuff. Go ahead and explain, we are all ears. And while u r at it, also explain to us how u know for sure that anything exists outside yourself, in other words how u know that all this is not happening only in your head.

2) Remember I said I'd be more inclined to believe you. It is a matter of probability. Be honest, who would u be more inclined to believe: someone who is supported by thousands of people over thousands of years and all sorts of supernatural stuff OR someone who says he is guessing there could have been a big bang out of nothing, while admitting he knows absolutely nothing about 96% of what he is guessing about!?

3. The question is: is it possible, in this our universe, to KNOW something and yet not be able to explain it or give proof about it? I believe the answer is yes. So if one says he is not sure about the answers to the questions of this thread he should not also go ahead to say that nobody else knows.

In conclusion, I believe this our reality was intentionally set up such that it is impossible to fully understand it's true nature and be able to logically or scientifically explain it, while still in it.
Religion takes that into account. Atheists (logic and science) don't.

johnydon22:
I'd have loved to answer these questions but maybe i have become incurably lazy these days to write very long explanatory posts. probably why not reset the thread, if you make a new thread maybe a part two of this one mention me for.

Why not reset the thread yourself as u see fit

hammer6:
Her heritage is Igbo.


Chi Onwurah is an Igbo name and Igbo word.


Igbo is the only ethnic group she has, unless she is mix maybe Irish or Scottish.


Nationality changes but ethnicity remains the same.

Igbo heritage is a subset of 9ja heritage. As she rightly said, she is British (of 9ja or igbo heritage)

Caseless:
trump and many conservative did.

Most people did not believe Obama was Kenyan.
They believed him to be American of Kenyan heritage

PrecisionFx:
The Adam n Eve Story is as false/wrong as the Atheist story.

The The Adam n Eve Story being false or not doesn't matter here.
Whar matters is that one side says a timeless intelligent being set up
reality as we know it with all sorts of supernatural stuff to support that claim. The other side says maybe a big bang occurred from nothing while admitting knowing absolutely nothing about 96% of the universe they are guessing about.