₦airaland Forum

PAGAN 9JA and macof, I never made reference to any abrahamic concept in my original post which is basically about reincarnation that is vehemently denied by the abrahamic religions. It is because of your irrational bias that you keep accusing me of such. The story global flood is mentioned in Ifa and was not brought to us by the abrahamic missionaries. I hope you are aware that other non-abrahamic peoples also know of this flood.
FOLYKAZE, go and ask any competent babalawo about Eni-bi-eni. How do you think matriarchal societies came about? The link in my original post is of THE CREATION STORY as narrated by the Chairman, Ethics and Scriptures, International Council for Ifa Religion. Why don't you contact him instead and tell him that he doesn't know what he is doing. I also hope you are aware that apart from the 801 irunmoles there are higher irunmoles. I also never mentioned that Eniyan is the same "thing" as Iwa but that they are appellations of the same person. Even those who practice Lucumi and Santeria know this very well.

Sorry all about the way I acted on that Canaaland connection thread; I was going through a lot at that time.

MetaPhysical, IWA here is in reference to the personality, not that other context. My Baba Awo confirmed that IWA is OLUIWA, more proof can be seen in the names of other divinities like Olosa who is also known as Osa.

How about we start with contributions of relevant Ifa stanzas concerning reincarnation-death-rebirth. In that creation story about the creation of Ninibinini, it is mentioned that Olodumare created her at location X bringing her to earth, confirming that our journey starts in heaven - orun n'ile, aye l'oja.

This question is drawn from the historical records of Ifa of which I seek a better understanding.

After the flood, Olodumare decided to create another set of beings to do his will on this planet. He created a female, Eni-bi-eni (translated as “One in our likeness”) a.k.a. Ninibinini, and handed her to an Irunmole known as Ènìyàn to be his wife and for both of them to populate the world. They begat 16 children - 8 sets of twins - otherwise known as ọmọ ènìyàn but afterward more and more people were created, the last being the oyinbo. (see THE CREATION STORY - http://ifatraining.weebly.com/library.html)

Given that: Irunmole[/i]s are spirit entities (say, ministers of light); [i]Orisha[/i]s are thought of as humans who accomplished exemplary feats for which they were duly recognized and elevated to the status of [i]Orisha[/i]s; the traditional concept of reincarnation is that parents can come to this world again as offspring of their children and children can birth (become ancestors of) their parents; there are numerous records in [i]Ifa of various Irunmole[/i]s having children; and there seems to be no rule in [i]Ifa (to my knowledge) excluding such Irunmole[/i]s from reincarnation;

1. is it impossible for the offspring of these [i]Irunmole[/i]s to have as descendants these [i]Irunmole[/i]s, and if so
2. if (1) above is true, wouldn't the [i]Orisha[/i]s be the reincarnated [i]Irunmole[/i]s?
If you say that it is impossible or possible, kindly try to support your position with logical (step-by-step) arguments. One reason for bringing up this topic is that I hope we can use our conclusions to inform ourselves better about various versions of certain events in history as recorded in Ifa.

NOTE: [i]Ènìyàn is the same person as Iwa who is Oluiwa and also known as Oduduwa; the beings who dominated this world before the flood are known as Eníyán (the rejected ones) and some escaped the flood (examples include the beasts described in the biblical books of Daniel and Revelations; the famous Yoruba author known as Fagunwa used them for his book "Igbo Olodumare" or "Forest of a thousand demons".

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It is ready.

I got my understanding of the Hamitic Hypothesis from

The Hamitic Hypothesis; Its Origin and Functions in Time Perspective. Edith R. Sanders. The Journal of African History, Vol. 10, No. 4 (1969), pp. 521-532.

Tony Spike, thanks for the links. I will try and see what I can learn from them.

MetaPhysical, my response to your mail seems to have been blocked, so no further communication from me till further notice.

I now leave this thread and nairaland, partly to concentrate more on my blog and the re-drafting of that yoruba history article.

9jacrip, your wet blanket intervention on this thread has been laced with hypocrisy. If at all you read any of Dierk Lange's papers without prejudice, you would have immediately noticed they are like minority reports and that he has been refuting the hamitic hypothesis with reasons usually suppressed in oyinbo-dominated scholarly groups. These groups have been the ones brainwashing your likes into rejecting our traditional accounts of migration while supporting their historical and academic fraud. Why is it that you quickly reject our stories but happily swallow the oyinbo dictates about our history and theirs? you would do well to remove the ship-loads of logs from your eyes and unclog your neural pathways of their scholarly fraud. but, are you one of them trying to discourage us?

some of the people who covetously claim responsibility for developing the land they covet are now talking of recklessly hunting the wildlife of the coveted land as a business opportunity.

Tony Spike, the presence of the names of those patriarchs on Egyptian king lists is true and I had already planned to begin a series about it that would show the links to Ifa. Can you send me a mail with the url?

MetaPhysical, have you seen the article that I mentioned in my reply to your mail?

another PAGAN 9JA...

9jacrip: Of what relevance are both references? They do not mention Africa/west Africa/Yoruba in anyway. Help me out here, what point are you trying to drive home with that link when the argument is solely about the 'home' of Yiddish West or East?

Are you by any chance a linguist?

The info in those links is about the often suppressed awareness in scholarly circles that modern hebrew is a fabricated language and that the jews are impostors.

prexios: the etymology of ejigbo:

Afin, awo ilode,
Adia fun Ajibola,
tii se yeye elekuru,
Loja ejigbo-mekun.

Ajibola saye oni ire.
Orunmila loni koo saye oni-ire,
Ajibola saye onii re,
Elasode loni koo saye oni-ire.

Ijesha lafin. If you look carefully at the word irefin, i never know if a place is so called until now, but, what you have to look out for is the code words, just as tony spike has said above. Irefin is the feedback to afin. Irefin means ire-afin, that is "the journey of Afin." Who was afin? Recall the aro eyo, where an icon said "...afin le nimi, mii seni a ti laya." i don't need to find who afin was if i have this ancient line, period.

Ejigbo is the short for ejigbo-mekun. Oja ejigbomekun is the founding fathers' name for what we call "Yoruba and her neighbours." Some people are not going to drop the old name for new ones, hence the term survive till our time. The Yoruba search party were of two divides, the pro-and anti-expansion. the Ifes were the expansionists, like the elites.

The anti-expansionists were people who speaks different language other than Yoruba around Yoruba land*(guesswork here).

The title for the ifa that i have given here is Osa - meji, it is taken from Odu Osa. I have told you guy to get the book awon oju odu mererindinlogun by Wande Abimbola ealier on, when we are at the initial stage of this discourse with Alagba Negro, whom i really miss.(i may have been unprofessional at that stage, i never knew we will come this far, but even when we disagree, his contributions get us this far, as i have to unleash just to be right.)

like it or not, Aku seems to be a short cut of Akure. You have to particularize en-route the closest synonym. the reason is, no Yoruba history is isolated of the other next to it. to isolate is to struggle with facts. then struggled facts often stand aloof and is foreign to body corpus of the thread of Yoruba history, meanwhile, all Yoruba words were codes invented by scholars like us who created subtle backups should in case one placed at some distance point become corrupt. Aku to me may have to do with Aoku, or Aaku.

You are correct, anyway. it talk about the remnants. the Yoruba lost a lot of followers and were greatly discouraged, thus they seek the face of God to know if they will ever survive at this strange world. But then God comfort them and says that they will become so many (awujale). From this came the song,

Ewo le ayo ewomo o
ewo le ayo ewomo.

Ayo is the source of the prefix Yo- that you have in Yoruba. Don't ask me more about this, you should understand what the mnemonic Ayo is, it is distributing seed across each cell that make up an opon. You know that Ayo is "Songo" among the Cameroonians sha? fact in Yoruba will always collect itself to connect.

egypt is actuall ejigbo. eji refers to two or duality while igbo is perhaps ancient land. thus ejigbo is upper and lower egypt. horus the black one is actually orisha who is obatala. horus was the first to rule upper and lower egypt together, after defeating osi who is osi efa or satan. remember that in ifa, obatala is strongly linked with ejigbo.

9jacrip: Read these:

http://multitree.org/codes/heb

multitree.org/codes/heb

^^^ I don't see where any connection is made.

Wexler, Paul. The Schizoid Nature of Modern Hebrew: A Slavic Language in Search of a Semitic Past. Wiesbaden: Otto Harrassowitz, 1991.

Johnson, Georhe. Scholars Debate Roots of Yiddish, Migration of Jews. New York Times. October 29, 1996. http://www.nytimes.com/1996/10/29/science/scholars-debate-roots-of-yiddish-migration-of-jews.html?pagewanted=all&src=pm.

The Fulani have an old Berber (?) element. DISCOVER. 2012 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2012/01/the-fulani-have-an-old-berber-element/

It was the oyinbo colonialists that taught our people to begin to believe that either we did not migrate or that we migrated only from somewhere around the Benue River basin.
Here are the fulani dna papers:
MtDNA Profile of West African Guineans: Towards a Better Understanding of the Senegambia Region. Rosa, A, et al., 4 (340-352), s.l. : Annals of Human Genetics, 2004, Vol. 64.

A Back Migration from Asia to Sub-Saharan Africa Is Supported by High-Resolution Analysis of Human Y-Chromosome Haplotypes. Cruciani, F, et al., 70 (1197-1214), American Journal of Human Genetics, 2002.

I will get the details of that paper when phcn does the needful.
Many west and central african peoples have traditional accounts, e.g. kisra legend, of mass migrations from the Near East. I would rather believe my ancestors than encourage myself to accept without scrutiny the biased research promoted by oyinbo people who fabricate reasons to justify their hatred of us. If I had been restricting myself I would not have let Otito set me free from their lies.

The Fulani gene pool includes some Indo-European DNA which is seen in the scientific community as evidence of a back-migration into Africa. Can you provide an alternative explanation?
As our people migrated from Ile-Ife within the last 1,000 years they found various artifacts in the virgin territories. An example is the group of Esie soapstone figures. Another is the magical pot found by migrants from Iremo Quarters and which they called "Orisha gun amu ewa" (shortened to Shagamu). did such artifacts create and plant themselves? is it not that some people lived there before, including a previous incarnation of yourself? how is it that there is little knowledge among our people of sungbo eredo?

Perhaps then it can also be translated as "careers of aye or this life." From yours I guess the "Ise-" prefix has to do with work activities, and "Asa Isembaye" means "traditional/ancient occupations on earth."

Pls prexios, what is isembaye?

Matthew 16:1-9 applies, especially vese 9

And I say to you, make friends for yourselves by unrighteous mammon, that when you fail, they may recieve you into an everlasting home.

From the passage, the convicted army officer is the unrighteous servant and the subject of verse 9 while while mammon and the everlasting home are oyedepo and his church. how is it that the spirit of the lord in that church did not help oyedepo discern and reject the convict earlier? the n11 million given to the church of oyedepo is almost 10 percent of the unrighteous n150 million.

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A negative influence is the lack of belief in the application of atunwa (reincarnation) factor and the occurence of loops in our history. Why don't we test it as a hypothesis and see whether or not the results fill the missing links?
One thing I've noticed about near east history is that the collapse of the 2nd bronze age involved violent conquests by non-blacks (oyinbo, fulani, touaregs and the likes) from a northeasternly direction and the southwesterly migration of blacks toward and into west and central africa.

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i have noticed that a number of african slave descendands and those who willingly emigrated to the diaspora advocate the emancipation of our peoples but simultaneously want to do the very same ile dida economic policies of the oppressors. they promote confusion and have been returning to promote and engage in the latter. the oppress want that and give them avenues like bbc and cnn interviews to encourage them. i have been trying not to see them as traitors, agents of the enemy.

there have been rumours that OS X Maverick might be incompatible with my early 2008 macbook, chai!

Olisa74, I really appreciate your feedback.

MetaPhysical: Amor4ce, lets talk.

Did you get my mail? Some of my sent mails have been prevented from reaching their gmail destinations e.g. one sent with the word "efa" included in the message body. I noticed this after I posted that essay about osi efa, ona efa and otun efa.

Does "ya" also have anything to do with "intervention"?

MetaPhysical: Very deep and insightful contributions. I am loving it.

There is a lot in here to provoke the brain. On the topic of Ado and all its variants, I made an observation. The letter D seem to me, at its minimal, to be an anchor or interface between two forces. Consider the Yoruba root sounds DA, DI, DE, DO, DU. Also AD, ID, ED, OD, UD.

Here D acts as a bridge interfacing the authority of creation with the functional manifest and producing a sense of FOUNDING, ORIGIN, FIRST-TO-BE, SETTLEMENT, ORDER and so on.

Ada
Adi
Ade
Ado
Adu
Ida
Idi
Ide
Ido
Idu
Eda
Edi
Ede
Edo
Edu
Oda
Odi
Ode
Odo
Odu
Uda
Udi
Ude
Udo
Udu.

i think it is best to start from here as a sort of nairaland collaborative project with the aim of producing an encyclopaedic dictionary of yoruba monosyllables and associated vowel prefixes aka stabilizers . i have been wondering if there is any such book with which i could learn the language better. from there the deep aspects of the monosyllables will be revealed to the learner as the oluwa deems fit and ready.

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