₦airaland Forum

Pope22:
The people you are scared of were the ones that came to you to worship with you and you think if you had gone to them, that they would kill you?
Simply thank God for this kind of union to continue and not finding a way to rubbish this friendly visit which am sure God is also pleased.

Lolzzz. You can't bring yourself to answer the question can you? I understand.

OkCornel:
The Israelites had gold and silver in their custody at that point in time.

Now move on to Deuteronomy 14 v 24-26. Money was very much in use then.

If God never requested for money as tithe back then, who is requesting for money as tithe now?

Just say it. God's ordinances are obsolete. Say it and rest.

MrPresident1:
You are right, it begins with Love, then faith in what is done, then the hope on GOD

You are right. Good night sir.

OkCornel:
Even in the era of Solomon where gold and silver was plentiful, it never changed the object of what was tithed?

In Matthew 23 v 23; Jesus never made any reference to monetary tithes. This was after the era of Solomon.

How then did tithe change from agricultural produce to money?

Or are you implying God did not know what He was doing when He gave out the guidelines on tithing?

In other words, the ordinances of God have become obsolete?

OkCornel:
In Abraham's time, he purchased Sarah's grave using money

In Joseph's time, his brothers used money to purchase food from Egypt

In Moses and Aaron's time, the Israelites had enough gold to create a golden calf

In Solomon's time, Money (gold and silver) was very much available.

In Jesus' time, tithe was never money as per Matthew 23 v 23. Moreso, Judas betrayed him for money

When God gave out His guidelines on tithe, He never requested for money. Where and how did tithe change from agro produce and livestock to money?

Where did God change it?

Well, i don't farm now, i work and pay my tithe and first fruits. No be by force nah. No give.

Na my money nah. How dis tin dey pain una like this? Na my money

OkCornel:
Tell me what the Israelites used in creating the "golden" calf

How does that connect?

Ranchhoddas:
E don finish na.
What were you expecting?

I no see anything wey go make am open this thread nah

MrPresident1:
The foundation of God's giving was faith, hope and love, this is the foundation on which he gave Christ to us for a sacrifice. Faith, hope, and love was the foundation on which the superstructure of the death of Christ is built which provides shelter to all who come in it.

Yes. And First Fruit and Tithe comes from the same body of teaching which is Faith Love and Hope. We are saying the same thing. You don't do one and leave the other

It begins with Love, then faith in what is done, then the hope on God.

OkCornel:
Per the bolded, I hope you know you just lied.

Money was very much in use back then!

Deuterenomy 14 v 22-29

22 Thou shalt [f]give the tithe of all the increase of thy seed, that cometh forth of the field year by year.

23 And thou shalt eat before the Lord thy God (in the place which he shall choose to cause his Name to dwell there) the tithe of thy corn, of thy wine, and of thine oil, and the firstborn of thy kine, and of thy sheep, that thou mayest learn to fear the Lord thy God always.

24 And if the way be too long for thee, so that thou art not able to carry it, because the place is far from thee, where the Lord thy God shall choose to set his name, [g]when the Lord thy God shall bless thee,

25 Then shalt thou make it in money, and [h]take the money in thine hand, and go unto the place which the Lord thy God shall choose.

26 And thou shalt bestow the money for whatsoever thine heart desireth: whether it be ox, or sheep, or wine, or strong drink, or whatsoever thine heart desireth: [i]and shalt eat it there before the Lord thy God, and rejoice, both thou, and thine household.

27 And the Levite that is within thy gates, shalt thou not forsake: for he hath neither part nor inheritance with thee.

28 At the end of three years thou shalt [j]bring forth all the tithes of thine increase of the same year, and lay it up within thy gates.

29 Then the Levite shall come, because he hath no part nor inheritance with thee, and the stranger, and the fatherless, and the widow, which are within thy gates, and shall eat, and be filled, that the Lord thy God may bless thee in all the work of thine hand which thou doest.


Deuteronomy 14 v 24-26 clearly shows that tithe is NOT MONEY!!!

Wow. You were mean in the time of Moses some people were bankers and businessmen who earn salaries instead farm produce?

OkCornel:
Even in the era of Solomon where gold and silver was plentiful, it never changed the object of what was tithed?

In Matthew 23 v 23; Jesus never made any reference to monetary tithes. This was after the era of Solomon.

How then did tithe change from agricultural produce to foodstuff?

Or are you implying God did not know what He was doing when He gave out the guidelines on tithing?

Wonderful!!! This guy. We have had 4 Eras. The Golden or Classic Era ===Abraham till Jesus.
The Medieval === Agrarian=== from Jesus to the fall of Rome to the World Wars.

The Renaissance Era=== Post World Wars.

Modern Era === Technology. Now.

Through all these Ages, things have changed, but has God? Shd his ordinances?

alBHAGDADI:
Footnotes of Bible? Did the writers of the original manuscripts of the Bible include footnotes or it was done by men of today to deceive people in a wrong direction? Those footnotes are the reason why many now believe in a false doctrine of rapture. They make you read meaning into the Bible instead of allowing the word of the spirit read meaning to you.

Proverbs 3:9 is not a reference to any exodus verse. It is what it is, or else why did it say "all thine increase", a thing exodus didn't say?

Say what?? Rapture is a false doctrine? Lolzzzz. You mean the Bible didn't teach Rapture, but men?

OkCornel:
FIRST FRUITS IN JUDAISM AS GOD DESIGNED IT TO BE
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Fruits

Hebrew perspective

Main article: Bikkurim (First-fruits)

In Ancient Israel, First Fruits was a type of offering that was akin to, but distinct from, terumah gedolah. While terumah gedolah was an agricultural tithe, the First-fruits, discussed in the Bikkurim tractate of the Talmud, were a sacrificial gift brought up to the altar (Bikkurim 3:12). The major obligation to bring First Fruits (henceforth: Bikkurim) to the Temple began at the festival of Shavuot and continued until the festival of Sukkot (Bikkurim 1:6). This tithe was limited to the traditional seven agricultural products (wheat, barley, grapes in the form of wine, figs, pomegranates, olives in the form of oil, and dates) grown in Israel. This tithe, and the associated festival of Shavuot, is legislated by the Torah. Textual critics speculate that these regulations were imposed long after the offerings and festival had developed.

By the time of classical antiquity, extensive regulations regarding Bikkurim were recorded in the classical rabbinical literature. According to Jewish law, the corners of fields, wild areas, left-overs after harvesting (gleanings), and unowned crops were not subjected to (and could not be used as) the tithe of First Fruits (they were intended to be left as charity for the poor, and other mendicants); plants from outside Israel were also prohibited from inclusion in the tithe, as was anything belonging to non-Jews.[ The rules also specify that each type of product had to be individually tithed, even if the numbers were balanced so that there was no difference in amount between this situation and using just some types of First Fruit as the tithe, and retaining others in their entirety. Fruit which was allocated to the tithe could not be swapped for fruit which wasn't, to the extent that wine couldn't be swapped for vinegar, and olive oil couldn't be replaced by olives; furthermore, fruits were not allowed to be individually divided if only part went to the tithe (small whole pomegranates had to be used rather than sections from a large pomegranate, for example).

The separation of tithed produce from untithed produce was also subject to regulation. The individual(s) separating one from the other had to be ritually clean, and had to include the best produce in the tithe if a kohen (priest) lived nearby. During the act of separation, the produce was not permitted to be counted out to determine which fell under the tithe, nor to be weighed for that purpose, nor to be measured for the same reason, but instead the proportion that was to become the tithe had to be guessed at. In certain situations, such as when tithed produce became mixed with non-tithed produce (or there was uncertainty as to whether it had), the tithed produce had to be destroyed.Anyone who made mistakes in the separation of tithed produce, and anyone who consumed any of the tithe, was required to pay compensation as a guilt offering.

The pilgrims that brought the Bikkurim to the Temple were obligated to recite a declaration, also known as the Avowal, set forth in Deuteronomy 26:3-10 (cf. Mishnah, Bikkurim 3:6). Native-born Israelites and proselytes would bring the Bikkurim and would say the Avowal, but women who brought the Bikkurim were not permitted to say the Avowal, since they were unable to claim inheritance in the Land bequeathed unto the tribes by their male lineage.[a] This Avowal was incorporated into a beautiful and grand festive celebration with a procession of pilgrims marching up to Jerusalem and then the Temple with gold, silver or willow baskets to which live birds were tied. (Bikkurim 3:3,5 and 8 ). The pilgrims were led by flutists to the city of Jerusalem where they were greeted by dignitaries (Bikkurim 3:3). The procession would then resume with the flutist in lead until the Temple Mount where the Levites would break out in song (Bikkurim 3:4). The birds were given as sacrificial offerings and the declaration would be made before a priest while the basket was still on the pilgrim's shoulder (Bikkurim 3:5-6). After the basket was presented to the priest, it was placed by the Altar and the pilgrim would bow and leave (Bikkurim 3:6).


I'M STILL WONDERING HOW FIRST FRUITS HAS TRANSFORMED INTO FIRST WAGES & SALARIES WITHOUT ANY CLEAR INSTRUCTIONS FROM GOD IN THE SCRIPTURES TO THE CONTRARY!

Give unto God and man, but please beware of false teachers twisting the truth (facts) on ground with a little error or lies to suit their selfish interests

So you are a Christian who do not believe in what YHWH did with the Jews? Where are your roots?

Oh wait. Are you a seed of Abraham? Why, are you a Jew? Are you a follower of Jesus of Nazareth? Why, are you a Jew?

We do not live in an Agrarian society when everything was crops anymore, that doesn't mean God has changed or His ordinances have become obsolete. If you don't do it, then don't do it, but to condemn it is wrong.

My harvest from my farm is my wages or income if i were living in the Medieval era, but, i now live in the Modern era when everything is monetary and my wage or income is salary, shouldn't i keep up with obligations because the society has changed?

MrPresident1:
Let your emphasis be more on what is truly important. When you show the people the truly more important things and they are convinced, all other convictions will fall in place.

I hope you know that salvation is giving?

For God so loved the world that He gave...

You can't preach Jesus without giving. Satan is attacking giving because he knows that that is where our freedom is.

OkCornel:
Are you ready to show us where God asked for money as first fruit?

God gave specific instructions on how first fruits should be given;

Why isn't the church following God's instructions? How did money come into the picture?

270. To set aside the first fruits and bring them to the Temple — Ex. 23:19
271. The Kohanim must not eat the first fruits outside Jerusalem — Deut. 12:17
426. To set aside the firstborn animals — Ex. 13:12
428. Not to redeem the firstborn — Num. 18:17

Take a look at God's specific requirements for first fruits. Look at all those instructions and tell us where God demanded money as first fruit!

Oh, this guy. You don come again. You mean since our society is no longer agrarian, the ordinances of Jehovah have become obsolete?

Have you ever read 'Whatever your hands finds to to do...?'.

Let me ask you. In the Old Testament, how were the People who didn't leave in Jerusalem paying their Tithes and First Fruits? Were they carrying their crops from wherever they were to the Temple in Jerusalem? No sir. They sold and took the money to the Priest. Read Leviticus 27 all. It's a long read, but try to read it.

there's what the Bible called redemption before Christ died.

TATIME:
Fully understood Sir!

Good.

alBHAGDADI:
Please stay away from all those Bible translations. They are actually Satan's handwork in that they pervert God's word. Same thing with NIV and NLT.

The only translation I recommend is the KING JAMES VERSION which is older than all these modern and Satan inspired Bibles. Research more on the. and you will see that they call Jesus Satan.

Pls leave the Bible translations out. Let's deal with the content. Every one who can read will see that they say the same thing.

I am Evangelical, and i read every Bible translation. Believe me, if you read kjb only, you'd missed out on certain contents.

MightySparrow:
But why?

Well. They feel cheated out of their inheritance as the first son of Abraham.

Ishmael was the bastard son of Abraham, albeit, first son, but he was rejected by Jehovah and Isaac was picked. It all began then.

They claim Isaac's place and try to obliterate him. They claim it was Ismael Abraham sacrificed at mount Moriah, hence the Mosque in Jerusalem where the Temple of Solomon once stood.


Na only Jesus go fit separate that fight when him come back.

TATIME:
Majority are no more following their once revered religious leaders who taught them so many heresies (including the Hellfire and Trinity doctrines) but i don't understand why they're still clinging onto the teachings of those teachers after discovering that they're FAKE!

Hey, there's Hellfire and Charles Tass Russell shall burn in it and you too. He is Hades right now awaiting White Throne Judgement. Say whatever you like, you shall stand before Christ the King.

Jehovah is Jesus and Jesus is the Holy Spirit. They are not divided but one.

Janosky:
My bro, there stupidity is simply absurd. Trinity doctrine shuts down their power to reason.
Solite3 & Anas09 said their Trinity is now a hierarchy , no more co-equals.
Trinitarians are Confused.

Lolzzzz. a JW witness who preaches watchtower's Governing Council instead of the Bible. I don't care to explain to you what Trinity is.
Gerarahia.

Pope22:
You are very funny, please shut up. I purposely told you am not a born again because I wanted to hear what you would say and you ended up saying trash. The only difference between Muslim and christian is because Muslim believe in Mohammed as a prophet and aslo believe that Christ is also a prophet and not the son of God. Christians believe in trinity while Muslim dont but the two religions believe in God and believe in God's anger, mercy, blessings and commandments. Those people you see that kill Christians are those who twist the words of the prophet and a good Muslim cannot shade an innocent blood.

Hahahahhahaha. Why did you pretend to be a Christian?

You didn't answer my question. How did you know that born again muslims are better than Born Again Christian?

You mean the muslim killing people are not true muslims or they have their own koran?

You mean the koran did not command them to kill but they twist it by going against it?


You didn't answer me boy, What do you think wld ve happened if Christians crashed into a mosque on a sallah day when muslims are praying, will you come up here telling this story or we'll be counting thousands of dead bodies in Nigeria?

Pope22:
You are actually the ignorant one. Read the origin of the religion Muslim and their believes and what makes it different from Christianity. Its just like roman catholics and non roman catholics, they are one but have just slight different believes but both still believe in God. Read before you display your ignorance here bro

Let's do it together. You first, tell me a bit about origin of Islam.

Leave Catholicism alone for now. Let's talk islam.

MrPresident1:
If you establish a strong foundation, there is nothing you cannot build as a superstructure; you can be modest and decide to build a bungalow, or you build a duplex, or you can build a skyscrapper, as long as the foundation is built right.

Once you establish the important part of faith hope and love, other aspects will take care of themselves. The people cannot be stingy when they know the importance and benefits of giving in love.

You sound mundane. Stinginess? You make it seem like it's a gratitude thingy. No. The Kingdom of God, the Church is built on Giving. Her foundation is giving.

Jesus created the Universe to give and receive. Except you want to steal, cheat, bribe, kill to make money,but if it's godly, then it must have its foundation in Giving.

All the three earthly kingdoms gives and takes from each other.

The Mineral kingdom, vegetable and Animal Kingdoms give and take from each other.

Pope22:
So those ones that entered the church and did not kill, what were they? Christians?

They are nominal Muslims. As we have nominal Christians so also they are nominal Muslims.

Do you know why the Sunnis don't regard he Shi'as and the Yorubas as real muslim? Lolz.

alBHAGDADI:
No, first fruit should be given ever time you get an increase. It is the same thing as tithe. Take not of the phrase "of all time increase".

Proverbs 3:9
Honour the LORD with thy substance, and with the firstfruits of all thine increase:

First fruit is not the first salary of the year or of your new job. It is ten percent of every salary. If you say it is the January salary or the first salary of a new job, then it means you won't be paying tithe for that month which is wrong. Can you now see the flaw in that? So, anyone telling you that it is a whole salary is a fraud. First fruit is just another term for tithe.

What is INCREASE tho?
Here is how The Message Bible puts it;
Honor God with everything you own; give him the first and the best. Your barns will burst, your wine vats will brim over.

Good News says; Honor the Lord by making him an offering from the best of all that your land produces.
First Fruit is not Tithe. The operative word here is 'First', not 'Increase'.

We Pay Tithe. It is a debt. This is a partnership where we share our profits base on agreed percentage of a venture. But thou shalt remember the LORD thy God: for it is he that giveth thee power to get wealth, that he may establish his covenant which he sware unto thy fathers, as it is this day.
Deuteronomy:8:18

The Lord gives you power to make wealth, in return you give Him 10%. This is Tithe.

But, we give First Fruit, it's an offering. We recognise that what we have comes from God and offer to Him in honour of Him . Honor the Lord by making him an offering from the best of all that your land produces. Every harvest, the first portion goes to the Lord before you can eat or sell from it.

But, in the case of salary earners, how shd First Fruit be given?

MrPresident1:
Where are your messages on faith, hope and love which are the most important things as advised by Jesus? If we are able to convince the people on what is truly important, they will fined it I easier to take care of themselves and their neighbours which is the essence and purpose of tithes and offerings and firstfruits

You do not do one and leave the other.

Besides, Kingdom prosperity is tight on Giving. If you are Christian you'd know that. Giving is the beginning and end of Christianity. You empty to be refilled.

alBHAGDADI:
Kindly attack the message and leave the messenger alone. Or is the message too hot to face?

Let me understand this. Shd First Fruit be given every beginning of the year or the first harvest of investment?

This is what i do, When i get a new Job or start a new business, my first salary or proceeds, i give as First Fruit. I do not Give my first salary at the beginning of every year. That's not what the Bible teaches. But, it appears that is what you are positing here.

MightySparrow:
Born - again Muslims

A born again muslim follow in the foot steps of Muhammad and that will be to kill and destroy anything Jewish or Christian. They'll never enter a Church, unless to kill.

Pope22:
Am not a born again

How then do you know that a Born Again Muslim is better than a Born Again Christian.

Now listen, any muslim who can be termed as born again is the one who follows the koran and lives as Muhammad lived. He'd rape women, steal from others, kill people and hate development, very deadly. in the other hand, a Born Again Christian is someone who wld follow Jesus and love others, forgive, live in peace with others. Give both to good and bad people.

If you want to know who is born again from these two faiths, look at the lives of the followers.

You can't follow muhammed and love anyone who is not muslim or genuinely live in peace with your neighbors.

Do you think the story wld've been the same if Christians had crashed into a Mosques where muslims were worshipping on a sallah day to commemorate with them? Wld it not have been war?

I don't care to compare my life with a Muslim's for we are Kingdoms apart.

And...?

CodeTemplar:
Let's wait until it is holy jihad day....

Trust a muslim to your detriment.

solite3:
Satan's Snares: Ecumenism and Interfaith Meetings

Ecumenism: The threat to Christianity. The coming together of Christian churches in the name of unity. But is it unity based on Scriptural truth or that of error? Are we as Christians traveling in the forbidden paths of darkness? Paths which lead to everlasting destruction?
"

Ecumenism mainly refers to initiatives aimed at greater Christian unity or cooperation. These initiatives are often referred to as interdenominational. It is used predominantly by and with reference to Christian denominations and Christian Churches separated by doctrine, history, and practice. Within this particular context, the term ecumenism refers to the idea of a Christian unity in the literal meaning: that there should be a single Church."-Wikipedia
Christ has said in his prayer; "And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me,

that they may be one, as we are....That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me."-John 17:11,21. A vivid undisputed fact from Christ's prayer. Here is Christ praying for unity within his Church, and it is through this unity which should exist within his Church that the world will believe that indeed Jesus is the sent of God. But what are the basis of this unity? meaning, what constitute this unity that Christ talks about?
"Howbeit when he,

the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come...Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth."-John 16:13; 17:17. The Spirit of Christ, in which his followers are one in Christ, is said to be the Spirit of truth. For the Holy Spirit is to guide us "in all truth" and from Christ we learn that the Word of God is truth. This showing us that we can unite in truth, all truth. Meaning that doctrine is the basis of Christian unity. Not unity in error: It is Satan's influence which is behind this Ecumenism movement to lead men neglect truth and pursuit unity that is not based on truth, but error. Is this what Christians would like? Just to neglect God's truth in favour of unity which is not based on truth but the traditions of men?
Ecumenism not only just one of the devil's devices to ensnare both the Christian world and the world, he brought an onslaught: Interfaith Meetings. Where you find different faith groups or representatives coming together and each praying to their "god" or doing something according to their 'faith'. Yes I put the words in quotations marks simply because; "for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved..."-Acts 4:12It is very explicitly written; "Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last;

and beside me there is no God." and Christ made it clear in John; "I am the way, the truth, and the life:no man cometh unto the Father, but by me..."- Isaiah 44:6 and John 14:6. So as people who profess Christ, how can we go and have interfaith connection with other 'faiths' while the Bible is clear about Christ being the only true way to God? What messages are we preaching while attending such meetings? Bringing Christ, the true God, to the level of the abominations of men's imaginations? God and Dagon cannot be in the same temple, ask the Philistines in the Old Testament. We cannot favour Ecumenicism nor interfaith, for they are the instrument ways of the enemy to bring man into error and unity of error, not that of God. I appeal to fellow Christians not to favour the works of Satan.

We know the end of the story. Satan will still fail.

solite3:
You don't know what it means to be bornagain.

there is nothing like born again muslim. Interfaith is satanic. Christianity cannot join another religion.

Don't mind that ignorant guy. And he is Christian. lolzzzzzzzz.