₦airaland Forum

[quote author=tpia@]how am i justifying racism?

what i noticed was many africans [nigerians actually], do not know what racism is.

my post also mentioned the fact that racism is ingrained in a lot of people, its not something they can consciously stop.

basically, what i mean is the problem goes deeper than most folks assume.

however, the thread context tries to combine integration in a religious setting, with racism, not sure that's the appropriate way to view such matters.[/quote]I agree

ona2: You find this also in Lagos, Nigeria. you see a Catholic church that is predominately Igbo owned and the Yorubas are leaving to look for a church with Yoruba congregation. basically, the issue is usually the mode of praise and worship. Igbos will want to avoid yoruba churches cos of this and vice versa. not racism this time, but tribalism. it a sort of way of finding a sense of belonging. i was recently speaking with a calabar man who married a Yoruba woman and he told me that in his church, many of the couples are a mix breed of Calabar and Yoruba men and women. its just a normal cause of life, always wanting to find a sense belonging whereever you are, and the church, no exception.

It's like that in America to, their are igbo churches, Edo churches, and Yoruba churches, and a few that are a mix. I guess it is where people feel comfortable going to church.

[quote author=tpia@]I think people do not understand what racism is.

We tend to assume racism is a choice, many of us do not realise that for a lot of people, racism is not a choice like it is for us, but a part of their identity, ie who they are.

They define themselves by it and would be lost and confused without it.

So, instead of forcing everyone to inconvenience themselves and maybe suffer anguish in the process, best to let people have whatever context they are comfortable with in their personal lives and not be overly critical over something they cannot change without God's help.

As long as they are not breaking the law while finding their comfort zone?

Obviously, mixed race couples may need integrated churches more, and i believe many of those abound. Likewise mixed tribe or mixed nationality couples may find it easier if they have other couples like themselves to relate with.[/quote]True, you have a point there

kaeyame: In USA, its all about skin color, here, its about where your parents come from.

I pray ours doesn't get fully blown in the churches, even though it exists to a certain degree

So true America has a long painful racial history between black and white people from slavery till now. during slavery, then segregation many white american churches were racist towards black americans so many formed and started their own churches that they have created their own style of worship from white americans that they prefer up till now. Although in today's age slavery and etc is over in America many cultures and races have their own churches, but it is Beyond racism and has now become less about racism for most of them, it is more about who they feel more comfortable praying with, preaching and prayer practices are different from one culture to another. In America you have Russian, Korean, Vietnamese, Hispanic, Black american, Nigerian, Ethiopian, Eritrean, Ghanian, Haitian, Jamaican, Orthodox Greek, Polish and etc churches now and it has become less about racism and more about how each cultural and racial group have their own way they feel comfortable in praying to God and feeling comfortable with praying with their own.

safarigirl: Of course she is. There are more hos in the US of A(shawos) than decent women. Hence the reason the likes of KimK and Snooki are famous. In naija those gals would've been working in brothels

LMAO

[b]" (CNN) -- The Rev. Paul Earl Sheppard had recently become the senior pastor of a suburban church in California when a group of parishioners came to him with a disturbing personal question.

They were worried because the racial makeup of their small church was changing. They warned Sheppard that the church's newest members would try to seize control because members of their race were inherently aggressive. What was he was going to do if more of "them" tried to join their church?

"One man asked me if I was prepared for a hostile takeover," says Sheppard, pastor of Abundant Life Christian Fellowship in Mountain View, California.

The nervous parishioners were African-American, and the church's newcomers were white. Sheppard says the experience demonstrated why racially integrated churches are difficult to create and even harder to sustain. Some blacks as well as whites prefer segregated Sundays, religious scholars and members of interracial churches say.

Americans may be poised to nominate a black man to run for president, but it's segregation as usual in U.S. churches, according to the scholars. Only about 5 percent of the nation's churches are racially integrated, and half of them are in the process of becoming all-black or all-white, says Curtiss Paul DeYoung, co-author of "United by Faith," a book that examines interracial churches in the United States.

DeYoung's numbers are backed by other scholars who've done similar research. They say integrated churches are rare because attending one is like tiptoeing through a racial minefield. Just like in society, racial tensions in the church can erupt over everything from sharing power to interracial dating.

DeYoung, who is also an ordained minister, once led an interracial congregation in Minneapolis, Minnesota, that eventually went all-black. He defines an interracial church as one in which at least 20 percent its membership belongs to a racial group other than that church's largest racial group.

"I left after five years," DeYoung says. "I was worn out from the battles."

The men and women who remain and lead interracial churches often operate like presidential candidates. They say they live with the constant anxiety of knowing that an innocuous comment or gesture can easily mushroom into a crisis that threatens their support. Poll: Race and religion in America »

"It's not all 'Kumbaya' and 'We are the World,' " says Sheppard, the pastor of the Northern California church, who was raised by his father, a Baptist preacher, in the black church. "There are plenty of skirmishes."
Can't we just be Christians?

If it's so tough, why bother? That's one of the first questions interracial churches must address.

DeYoung says he encountered many blacks who said they wanted a racial timeout on Sunday.

"They would say, 'I need a place of refuge,'" he says. "They said, 'I need to come to a place on Sunday morning where I don't experience racism.' "

Whites also complained of their own version of racial fatigue, other scholars say.

Theodore Brelsford, co-author of "We Are the Church Together,'' another book that looks at interracial churches, says whites often say that church should transcend race.

"They'd say, 'Can't we just get along without talking about race all the time? Can't we just be Christians?'"
Not really, say advocates for interracial churches. They argue that churches should be interracial whenever possible because their success could ultimately reduce racial friction in America.

American churches haven't traditionally done a good job at being racially inclusive, scholars say. Slavery and Jim Crow kept blacks and whites apart in the pews in the nation's early history. Some large contemporary black denominations, like the African Methodist Episcopal church, were formed because blacks couldn't find acceptance in white churches.

Large denominations like the Methodists, Baptists and Presbyterians split over race in the 19th century when their members clashed over the issue of slavery, Michael Emerson, a scholar on interracial churches, recounted in his book, "Divided by Faith."

But interracial church advocates say the church was never meant to be segregated. They point to the New Testament description of the first Christian church as an ethnic stew -- it deliberately broke social divisions by uniting groups that were traditionally hostile to one another, they say.

DeYoung, the "United by Faith" co-author, says the first-century Christian church grew so rapidly precisely because it was so inclusive. He says the church inspired wonder because its leaders were able to form a community that cut across the rigid class and ethnic divisions that characterized the ancient Roman world.

"People said that if Jews, Greeks, Africans, slaves, men and women - the huge divides of that time period -- could come together successfully, there must be something to this religion," DeYoung says.

Biblical precedents, though, may not be enough to make someone attend church with a person of another race. Something else is needed: a tenacious pastor who goads his or her church to reach across racial lines, interracial church scholars say.

The Rev. Rodney Woo, senior pastor of Wilcrest Baptist Church in Houston, Texas, may be such a person. He leads a congregation of blacks, whites and Latinos. Like many leaders of interracial churches, he is driven in part by a personal awakening.

Woo's mother is white, and his father is part Chinese. He attended an all-black high school growing up in Port Arthur, Texas, where he still remembers what it was like to be a minority.

"Everyone understands the rules, the lingo, the mind-set -- except you," he says. "It was invaluable, but I didn't know it at the time."

When he became pastor of Wilcrest in 1992, he was determined to shield his church members from such an experience. But an exodus of whites, commonly referred to as "white flight" was already taking place in the neighborhood and the church.

Membership fell to about 200 people. At least one church member suggested that Woo could change the church's fortunes by adding a "d" to his last name.

"The fear there was people would think I was Chinese," he says. "There would be a flood of all these Asians coming in, and what would we do then?"

Woo kept his last name and his vision. He made racial diversity part of the church's mission statement. He preached it from the pulpit and lived it in his life. He says Wilcrest now has about 500 members, and is evenly divided among white, Latino and black members.

Woo doesn't say his church has resolved all of its racial tensions. There are spats over music, length of service, even how to address Woo. Blacks prefer to address him more formally, while whites prefer to call him by his first name, (a sign of disrespect in black church culture), Woo says.

Woo tries to defuse the tension by offering something for everyone: gospel and traditional music, an integrated pastoral staff, "down-home" preaching and a more refined sermon at times.

But he knows it's not enough. And he's all right with that.

"If there's not any tension, we probably haven't done too well," he says. "If one group feels too comfortable, we've probably neglected another group."
Going from "they" to "we"

Sometimes, though, a determined pastor is not enough. Interracial churches can also implode on issues far more explosive than worship styles -- like sex and power.

One such issue is interracial dating. Some scholars and leaders who deal with interracial issues say it's not unusual for parents in racially-mixed churches to leave when their teenage kids begin dating.

Woo saw that exodus at Wilcrest. Some parents talked about the importance of a multiracial church, until their kid became attracted to someone from another race within the church.

"As kids began to date, some things get revealed," he says. "They didn't want their kids involved in interracial dating -- and that's not just whites."

Accepting black leadership is another touchy subject. Most interracial churches are led by white pastors. A congregation typically becomes all-black if a black pastor is hired, says DeYoung, the "United by Faith" co-author.

"As long as the top person, the senior pastor, is white, power sort of resides with whites," DeYoung says. "But when that shifts, it does something psychologically to people. People usually leave."

Black pastors who do gain the acceptance of interracial congregations still have to watch themselves. Some white parishioners, even progressive ones, get uneasy when a black pastor gets too fiery in the pulpit, says Brelsford, co-author of "We are the Church Together."

"A black church sermon that could be understood as impassioned might be interpreted as angry and defensive by a white congregation," Brelsford says. "It could kick into fear of black men."

Sheppard, the black minister of the church in California, says he modified his style to appeal to all sorts of people.

He says he abandoned the pulpit pyrotechnics he learned growing up in the black church when his congregation's racial mix changed. He also carries his authority lightly, dressing casually in the pulpit and consulting with church committees before making decisions. In conversation, he's relaxed and accessible.

"I'm very aware of how rare this is," he says of being the black minister of an interracial congregation. "I'm humbled by it."

The people in the pews must also do their share of adapting, scholars and ministers say. Only when ethnic groups no longer feel compelled to abandon their entire culture on Sunday morning can a church claim to be interracial, Brelsford says.

An interracial church isn't one in which all the black members act, dress and worship like the church's majority white members to make them feel comfortable, he says.

Interracial churches resist "taking one dominant identity and forcing everyone to fit into it," Brelsford says.

That appears to have happened at Sheppard's church in Northern, California. Since its rocky early days, it has now grown to a multiracial congregation of about 6,000 people. Whites, blacks, Asians, Latinos - all now attend.

"We refuse," Sheppard says, "to be a one-flavor-fits-all church."

Interracial congregations often include people who probably wouldn't have become friends in any other circumstances. They are people like Dwight Pryor, a black man who grew up in segregated Mississippi seeing blacks brutalized by whites. He says he grew up disliking white people.

Today, Pryor says he is best friends with a white member of Wilcrest, a man who grew up in Alabama during segregation in a family that hated blacks.

When Pryor sees his friend on Sunday, he says he no longer sees a "they" or a "them" trying to invade his world.
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He sees his brother in Christ.

"We come to love each other," he says. "When I look into his eyes, I can see the love of Jesus Christ. He and I have become friends. "[/b]
http://www.cnn.com/2008/LIVING/wayoflife/08/04/segregated.sundays/

yellowpawpaw: Hv u guys noticed that any guy in these K gals lives suddenly lost it?
Lamar lost it big time,
Humphrey was messed up,
Bruce jenner is looking for escape route,
Now its kanye west,his last album was a big flop. He is booed at times.
Now he is comparing his aristo babe with michelle!
What an insult internationale!
His end is near like the rest.
D K family knows how to use men as ladder, he won't be d last.
Deluded he goat

lol, interesting assessment

[quote author=tpia@]those are also black features but more commonly associated with non-blacks, for some reason.

why do you think they're non-negroid?

blacks are a very diverse race.

what i mean is seeing such features in blacks does not automatically translate to non-negroid, true, mixed may be a factor but not always.

the same features in others, could be from blacks.[/quote]so true, Those features look negroid to me and anyone who says otherwise needs to take a look again. Also at that time they were a strong african empire who loved themselves and didn't have any self hate, so for the poster to imply that maybe they didn't have a accurate description of themselves is worng. I never heard them being linked to Indonesia, I feel some of those links were done to distance the accomlishmenst the Yoruba's did then, this video speaks more about it


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M5f0JxwR-0k

I think it is 50/50 amongst africans born in America from African parents but I have seen it more with males then the females when they prefer non-african cultures over their own but the africans born and raised in in their african countries and culture mostly stay and keep their culture regardless of gender but I have noticed that some africans that do swade to non-african cultures from where they are from tend to different from one african country to another.

I really don't know how I would rate this whole assessment of this threads topic cause at times it just wasn't accurate at times however There were some points that were true but other points that I didn't agree with or was stuck in between at times

Congratulations to her

lol

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y26M83s003Q

Glam fairy01: And some will say,when Nigeria start celebrating Halloween ?

exactly

congratualtions to him, interesting combo of a couple

3ace: Seems their mother is half-breed.

His mother is beautiful but she doesn't look like a mixed race person to me, I and my family memebers of mine have similar features & skin tone and we are black and nigerian, stop being ignorant

I guess Omotola Jalade, Bukky Wright, and etc are also mixed breed to you, ridiculous

[quote author=Missy_B]I'm sorry but I can hardly make any sense out of the part in bold.
You asked if Miley was more influential than Michelle and I implied that it depends on whom the survey is being conducted.
Miley will most likely sway more teens than Michelle would. So, yes, if we are taking only teens into consideration.

Which brings us back to my point. Kim has some sort of influence on a set of people (regardless of the quality of these people). If we conduct a survey on just these people, Kim will win. ''Kanye isn't entirely wrong''. What's there not to understand? [/quote]I think the assumption that Kim will win is based on your opinion not fact, based on what I have seen on the media it depends on the demographic of women in America, to me that is not hard to understand but to sandbox all women and say a generalized statement and make Kim a winner is hilarious, most likely celebrities like A-list actresses on Oscar night from Nicole Kidman to Halle berry would win but Kim, I'm sorry NO.

[quote author=soul_glo]Yeah. When you go to your next job interview dress like Kim Kardashian and see how far her influence will get you. Kim's sense of style is more geared towards street clothing. This same Kanye West was the one that tried to change Kim Kardashian's whole wardrobe because he felt it was too ghetto LMAO. At least Kanye West has a good excuse. She's the mother of his child and he is in love with this woman. What is your excuse?


I finally read the interview and that idiot Kanye is taking about Michelle Obama cannot wear the same bikini that Kim Kardashian wore after having her baby. Looking good in a bikini is the highlight of a 30 something year old mother in 2013 This is what women were persecuted and imprisoned for so that women Kanye West can tell us that a woman is influential because she looks good in a bikini. Susan B Anthony is spinning in her grave.


You're right Kim Kardashian is influential with people that like to take half naked pics and instagram them. She's popular with people that watch her life and try to convince themselves that they have similar lives. In Kim Kardashian's defense she is living her life the way she wants it.[/quote]excellent response

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sQqjcW9higA

[quote author=Missy_B]Ask teens to choose between a free ticket to Miley's concert and an access to Michelle's whatever. You should get an answer.


She is the First lady, what do you expect?
Regardless the price of what they wear Michelle and Kim cannot be put on the same scale of fashion. . . It will be an insult to Kim and I will take offense.


Which brings us back to my original point - Kanye isn't entirely wrong as Kim is more influential to a set of people than Michelle is. The quality of the people being influenced is another story and isn't the subject of discussion right now.


I rest my case![/quote]Its funny you say the people being influenced is a different story but bring up the example of who teens would chose Miley or Michelle, when everybody knows that mileys fan base are TEENAGER'S but you didn't use the example of college graduates or middle age adult women who are doctors, business women in the corporate world and etc as a example. so let me flip it if it was a person in the late twenties to early thirties who works for a big corporation in America, A professor in a IVY league College/University, a engineer, a chef , or simply a women trying to progress in society and etc who do you think they would chose? a free ticket to see miley cirus or free access to michelle; also who do you think they will emulate in how to dress in the office or corporate dinner? Kim kardashian or Michelle Obama

I never brought up price, but clothes selling out of J.Crew and other well known stores so women can get a dress Michelle or kate Middleton wears to official appearances not Kim speaks alot of volume in influence in the fashion world. The type of people Michelle influence is another scale then to Kim's. So the type of people makes a difference. Kanye made a generalized statement as if a teenager or a 20 year old Vegas Hip Hop dancer that watches keeping up with the kardashian and buys their products means everybody from a corporate lawyers, exec from a company or a female scientist who works for the CDC is also influenced in Kim Kardashians fashion when it is the complete reverse.

Like I said they each have their style but their influence are to different crowds & demographics so for Kanye to blurr that to me sounds like a insult and ridiculous on Michelle's end

[quote author=Missy_B]The one in a higher position isn't always the most influential.
Newsflash: In some aspects Kim would sway more crowd than Michelle could; in the fashion world for example.[/quote]then by your definition Miley Cirus is also more influential, almost everything Michelle has worn from the inauguration ball twice, to world appearances has sold out in stores and has been mentioned. Don't get me wrong Kim kardashian has her own style as well, the same as Michelle but the type of people Kim sways vs. Michelle is totally different, and totally different levels

Stylemakers of 2013: Kate Middleton, Michelle Obama, Phillip Lim and More—See the Pics
http://www.eonline.com/news/458713/stylemakers-of-2013-kate-middleton-michelle-obama-phillip-lim-and-more-see-the-pics

[quote author=soul_glo]Kim Kardashian being compared to Michelle Obama is like comparing Anna Nicole Smith to Ursula Burns. Those names should not be in the same sentence. Kanye West is delusional.[/quote]Amen

[quote author=Missy_B]I'm more likely to open a thread on Kim than one on Michelle Obama. So, no, Kanye West isn't entirely wrong.

#TeamKim[/quote]well it is pretty obvious she is always in celebrity news all the time, not Michelle(not a celebrity) but that is not a excuse to use the word influential and Michelle Obama in the same sentence with Kim Kardashian. Michelle Obama is in a higher level and influence in America then Kim Kardashian regardless of how many times TMZ flashes her and kanye on celebrity news. I think if Kanye had compared her to another celebrity in her level this wouldn't be a issue and their would be agreement with that