₦airaland Forum

Beaf:
The human genome project ended quite some time ago, so there is very sound scientific basis to say that there are only cosmetic.
http://www.ornl.gov/sci/techresources/Human_Genome/home.shtml

You need to rejig that argument.

Obviously the aim of the project was not just identification and break down of genetics, the utimately aim is to explain fundamental links between human traits and genetics and they are no where near completing that yet. You should keep up with developments.

If your comments where on the back of the initial breakthrough then you where completely misguided. Remember when Dr watson made his racist comments he was told to wait because the research was still underway

http://www.wikinomics.com/blog/index.php/2007/06/15/the-next-stage-of-the-human-genome-project/

Besides I'm not arguing about anything so no need to rejig anything, just a word of caution that there is uncertainty

A more fundamental question needs to be answered before this whole debate can be had and it hasn't been answered which is,

What is intelligence?

AjanleKoko:
Another one of those why-are-we-so-dumb posts.

My own two cents:
I don't think there is anything like an 'intelligent race'. Nor do I think there is anything like a 'dumb race'.
Usually intelligence is individualised. I.e. how an individual responds to the stimuli of the external environment, coupled with prevailing customs. Although there is some research about genetic influence,brain size and shape, etc., but no basis whatsoever.
We've all heard about how super-intelligent the ancient Mayans were. Wonder why they're not ruling the world now, or why they could not save their civilization from disappearing.

In the culture of the ancient world, visionary leadership, culture and customs counted for a lot. Then individuals were greater than the collective. That's why you have personalities straddling those times. Alexander, Christ, Mohammed, Ceaser, Hannibal, Charlemagne, etc. Their ideas still live on, supported by the social systems created by the culture of the people out of which these people came.

In the context of the modern world, collective effort counts for everything. Of course there is a place for individual vision, but the social structure needs to suppport this. In most African societies, it does not, because we are not in any way a collective. A bunch of multi-ethnic nationalities can't be herded into a nation. Lee Kwan Yew realised this, and somehow got his people to see that the British-imposed Federation of Singapore and Malaysia was not going to work, and it was dissolved as an entity. I mean, he had a bright idea, but he still had to get people behind him.

In most of black Africa, there is no collective, no shared customs, no structures to support collaboration. So it makes individual brilliance pale out easily.

Interesting point

Beaf:
There is almost zero genetic difference between "races". That is why I used the example family earlier. Sometimes, there can be more genetic variation in a nuclear family of the same "race" than there is between two different "races".
Also, aren't you are casting your net too wide? Parrots might be more intelligent than most birds, but they certainly are a different animal from an ostrich; just like humans are different from baboons.

We need to look into societal structure for any issues. One question that would offer up a lot of answers is, why were our ancestors left behind from about the 15th century? That is when something went wrong, there is no racial difference in intelligence.
Racial differences in intelligence is a fad. For example; a couple of decades ago, when the Chinese were dying in fearsome scales of hunger, draught and natural disasters, no one ascribed them any intelligence. The same goes for India. But today, there is talk about them being somehow more intelligent than everyone else. Tomorrow, it will be Botswana and Rwanda; they are the next rich countries.

It is possible that there are no differences between the races but we don't know yet they only began decoding last year which was a breakthrough. So we can't say anything about Zero differences yet.

I think you misunderstand my point, the question which is a legitimate one is why do we take for granted that all races are equal in intelligence? there is no logical or scientific reason why it should be.

The animal kingdom can also be grouped into mammals etc and further sub divided into dog, cats, humans etc All I'm saying is that within the sub groups there is disparity in levels of intelligents and other traits for dogs for instance so why should it be different for humans?

There might not be differences but it is certainly a valid question and don't say it's impossible because there isn't conclusive evidence either way.

I hope there are no differences for obvious reasons but although it is very uncomfortable to consider, its not impossible.

Beaf:
Its simple. There can be more variation within a single family (small noses, height, weight, skin color etc) than the so called differences between "races" (usually colour and body part shape); but the relative intelligence of family members is not dependent on any of those variations.

You mentioned dogs. They are deliberately bred for certain characteristics, something similar happens with the offspring of two intelligent humans; say for example, two professors. They tend to be as intelligent  or more intelligent than their parents.

As to most species having varied intelligence, the ratio's are the same for all races. That leaves any gaps to environment / culture and suppport / upbringing,

But dogs are chosen based on what they are first before selections are done. Parrots are more intelligent than most other birds, fact.

The genetic testing has only just began so time will tell, but is it impossible that blacks are genetically more intelligent than whites or Asians or vice versa.

There is the suspicion for instance that rhythm has to do with genetics so why not intelligence? Let’s be objective and argue freely

Duduknight:
Correct but adaptation is related to intelligence. So if you relocate pigmies to New york and New yorkers to the congo, what you will find is that, the more intelligent members of each group will adapt better and quicker than the less-intelligent members of each group.

We have evidence to support this. There are Africans who move to the western world from their villages and quickly adapt and become successful in their new environment while their peers manage or suffer. The reverse is also the case for caucasians who move to Africa or the Amazon jungle. The intelligent adapt and survive while the less intelligent don't and either die or run.

I think a big problem with the debate is that intelligence is almost impossible to define. What is intelligence?

As well the debate is not that there aren't intelligent people on both sides, which the second part of your post is saying, because people on both sides admit there are. The debate is whether the bell shaped curve is shaped differently for the different races.

Beaf:
Some people have big noses and small heads. . . that is genetics. People with big noses and small heads are not more (or less) intelligent than the rest of the population.
However, a child growing up in the wilds of Ajegunle is very very unlikely to grow up as intelligent as one who has grown up in Asokoro, Abuja.

Nigerians live in a very harsh environment where people shout for joy at the resumption of electricity supply after a break lasting hours, days, even months. What do you expect from people reduced to an animal existence?

You make a very very valid point. But let me play devils advocate for a second. Most other species have varied intelligence depending on what they are. For instance dogs are not equally intelligent, different types of dogs have different levels of intelligence. Certain dogs are easier to train by police for detecting explosives for instance because they are more intelligent and that way inclined. It's the same with birds and other animals.

Why is it necessarily different for the human race?

Horus:
This a very interresting topic. I watched also last night the documentary ("RACE and INTELLIGENCE" and I think that many points have been omited in the documentary. Why intelligence have to be defined by the criteria of the caucasian in 100% of the case?.
Let us take the example of a caucasian who live in a big american city. If this caucasian is left alone in the middle of the Kalahari desert in Namibia, do you think he could survive in the desert without modern equipment and food brought with him?. NO. But The Bushmen or San, have their home is this vast expanse of the Kalahari Desert. They are living in one of the most inhospitable terrains in the world. They are able to read the signs of Mother Nature at a very young age, this is also a form of intelligence.It’s almost unbelievable that they are able to survive by hunting, gathering roots and tubers in such environment. Their lifestyle and culture were really something to experience because intelligence is also the ability to live in tune and harmony with nature.

Very good point, this is what has come to be known as emotional intelligence. I think this debate is a very complex one and no one on either side should be arrogant enough to make a blanket statement or discount any aspect of the debate.

But don't you think it could be argued that a person surviving in the bush has more to do with adaptation than intelligence?

POSAKOSA1:
Sorry my friend but there is no correlation between race and intelligence.


Race is nothing but a social construct.


Genetics/Environmental/Economic factors determines how well one is exposed to "education or factors that can help one to be considered intelligent" in society.

What do you mean race is nothing but a social construct? and is there a relationship between race and genetics?

It's easy to say environment and I think personally environment is an over riding factor and should rightly be the main focus.

However I also think genetic make up could have a role to some extent and cannot be discounted entirely.

hcl_acid:
nigeria as a whole possesses great qualities such as brilliant minds, absence of natural disasters and so on, but i must give it to BENNY BOY11 here who i see as someone in for the real truth.  at first the absence of adequate leadership is already a big problem for the nation, secondly we nigerians see ourselves as AFRICA NUMBER 1 and a great force in the world's economy which isn't a bad thing the problem is that nigerians in general talk too much!! when would we begin to learn?!! one thing is certain without HUMILITY our system would remain stagnant despite the fact that GOD gave us everything. you see nigerian leaders always present when it comes to problems relating to other african nations when the country is in disorder, i'l explain:
1. one of the most adopted approach to measure a country's economic power is by it's stability in energy generation and consumption, i don't need to say anything further about this,
2. bad leadership has costed us lack of security, adequate health facilities (which means a great deal), proper educational system, a scary distribution of wealth out of this world's fashion, and, the funniest of all is that nigerians are still fighting for world recognition, boasting about personal achievements such as flashy cars around town, expensive edificies and houses,,  we must always learn to wait for outsiders to comment on improvement in our system and how great we are. my experience with the nigerians i met outside the country has been very frustrating as everyone says the same thing. 'make money and return home to show everybody that i'm loaded'  some even tell the women that their parents are ministers and buisness tycoons and etc,  it's hightime we started doing things properly both in and outside nigeria.

It is because of people like you that I never generalise about Nigerians or any other group of people. When I see intelligent, well thought through and most importantly objective posts like yours I am encouraged that there is hope.

For every basic minded post like the one left by ceah, there is a sensible one like yours.

ceah:
@Gbawe, DuduKnights and Benny,

@Gbawe, DuduKnights,   I hardly reply to post on NL though i cant do without NL daily but i decided to reply to this post cos i have noticed  @Gbawe and @DuduKnights are very intelligent and constructive people.I just want you guys to keep it up. I am proud of the two of you. If Seun thinks about NL award for Constructive and Unbiased Post on NL then i would have voted for you guys. As for @Benny, i think @Duduknights should understand something i noticed abouth this ghanian, There is a difference between hate and truth, I have noted hatred in all @Benny post on NL, so @Gbawe might not be wrong afterall.

@Benny, the fact is that no one can send you out of NL but you need to change your Mindset, Attitude and most of all your Mentality. Stop Hating, continue to be proactive and try not to generalise when really the statistics is there for all to see. That one egg is bad does not make the rest in the crate bad.

God Bless you all,

Noted hatred in my posts? Very interesting I wonder if you understand what hatred means and I would love to see examples of this hatred you speak about.

Everyone here probably including yourself knows deep down that there is a lot of truth in what I have posted on this topic because you wouldn't single me out of hundreds of people if it wasn’t the case. Let alone go and read all my post like you said you did.

I go on several forums mainly black and have no intentions of leaving any of them so I guess you have to get used to it. Just like some people on here your narrow mindedness seeped through when you said things like "this Ghanaian" and "no one can send you out of Nairaland" which makes me suspect you have the backward “Ghana must go” mentality.

A wise person will assess what people say regardless of where they are from, and remember the truth is not always what we like to hear.

In conclusion my posts aren’t the problem my being Ghanaian is, and quite frankly it's more your problem than mine.

Nigeria has the capability of being the Giants of West Africa. By that I mean Size Population, resources etc

Gbawe:
Not at all. You and other non-Nigerians continue to prove my point . Nigerians know many African Countries through actual first hand experience yet very few of you non-Nigerians on this forum know Nigeria enough to understand its unique challenges. I am not on a Cameroonian or Ghanaian forum attempting to lecture them on their national affairs. As much as I welcome diverse input I would prefer non-Nigerians are better informed before they come here to regurgitate what they have heard .

The Federal Government has never shown a cohesive desire to support the valiant international trade efforts of Nigerian enterpreneurs. That cannot detract from how Nigerians are gifted business 'travellers' . There is no accepted format for global trade either and it is patently intolerant and ignorant to state that "Nigerians should take over Nigeria" first , when anyone knowledgeable about Nigeria will know that , for example , the Igbos are marginalised to the point where they are continously schemed out of the Presidency because of certain 'arrangements' !!!

Why would an Igbo person not travel to utilise abilities stifled at home? This is the type of 'local Knowledge' you and others don't possess when you make statements about Nigeria !!!! So my friend , 1 plus 1 will not always equal 2 . I am a patient man. I am willing to wait and see wether Nigeria can never improve as a South African poster concluded. 


My friend for a clever chap you dissapoint me with the above . Do you know of the concept of "local knowledge" in International trade as a defining ethos of how societal differences require individual approaches and solutions ?

I said there might be the need to tweak a thing or two to accommodate differences. The fact that you approach one society differently from another doesn’t change the underlying principle.

If you are attempting to say that Nigeria’s situation is different and the Igbo predicament you stated is justification for different rules to be applied to Nigeria, then you could not be more wrong.

I said transparency and accountability were key ingredients. There is no country without its peculiarities and sections of a society being excluded from the political process for one reason or another is not peculiar to Nigeria. How many full blooded Scots without significant English influence have ever been British Prime Ministers? But that’s not to say a Scot with the business acumen can’t thrive in England. There isn’t going to be another black president for a while after Obama but go to Atlanta and see how vibrant the constantly growing black middle class is.

If there is transparency, accountability, openness and fairness which are all traits of good governance then Igbos would not need to leave even if they didn’t have political clout.

Mind you the fact that methods of obtaining accountability and fairness should take culture and traditions into account does not mean the principle of fairness is not being applied.

Tell me the most Nigeria specific problem which a person like me would be completely clueless about and I will show you how the good leadership blueprint mentioned earlier deals with it comprehensively.

Gbawe:
My friend, I don't deal in half truths. You do with how you never understand fully what you are talking about. On previous threads I have shown that you love commenting about Nigeria when you don't understand its 'unique' and self-inflicted problems that could be resolved fairly easily with genuine political will. Here you are showing the same ignorance of the real state of affairs in Nigeria vis a vis cause and effects.

Minus Government interference, Nigerian private entities do well and distinguish themselves amongst their continental peers. Nigerian private entities also demonstrate the will to innovate not entirely common accross Africa. Infrastructure , education , public services for example, are woeful because of inept leadership at the Federal Government level. Inept leadership is secured and perpetuated because of the lack of electoral fairness i.e Nigerians do not get the chance to elect proven leaders who will facilitate the development and progress we can secure rapidly with our manpower and material endowment. The skills of leadership and enterpreneurship still resides in Nigerians regardless of the ineptitude that ensures those qualities are not harmonised to produce national greatness.

You simply don't know as much as you should on Nigeria and I don't think I have enough time to become a teacher to anyone. Non-Nigerians incessantly taunt Nigeria with how w produce oil yet import petrol but do you know that that situation is about to change with how Nigeria is about to deregulate its petroleum sector completely to facilite efficiency and profitability with how the removal of government subsidy  plus the involvement of private , and thus profit-led , players will make Nigeria exponentially greater profit as per how the sale of refined products (when importation used to be the case) will increase immensely. We will simply be refining efficiently what we produce. Is this Rocket Science? Should it not have been done ages ago? Long story short things are not done when they should be because of vested interest. It was the same fo Ghana. Now that things are being done correctly Ghana is moving in the right direction. When our leaders begin to do things properly Nigeians , becuase of the inherent industrious spirit they possess , will secure growth exponentially greater than others have secured in simiar time frame. That is what I hint at when I point that Nigerians trading well outside our border is something to praise .

You are simply beating about the bush. You can take any good economist from anywhere in the world and to any country in the world and they will be able to identify fundamental flaws or strengths. There might be the need to tweak a thing or two to accommodate slight differences but the basics will remain the same.

You are attempting to mystify the Nigeria situation but 1 plus 1 will always be 2 regardless of where or when you ask the question. Good leadership which means well thought through policies, transparency & accountability, investment in people & infrastructure worked in Europe for the Uk, Germany etc, in Asia for Japan, Malaysia Singapore etc and it will work if applied in Nigeria.

I don’t need to know Nigeria to make the above statement because what works is what works for all societies. Can you at least accept that?

Duduknight:
I hate to agree with you but I have to. I also agree with some of the points that Gbawe is making. However, it is difficult to make much progress abroad without first putting your house in other. In the 80s when globalidation started to take form, General Electric under Welch did not delve into the global market. Welch's reasoning was that he had to put his house in order in order to be able to pursue opportunities in the global market. So what did he do, he restructured GE first and then made it lean and agile so as to be able to compete with Japanese and European firms.

While it is through that some progress is being made by some Nigerians, it is progress that is still being impeded by a lack of a strong united front and infrastructure in Nigeria. Further progress will come from a substantial reduction in fraudulent practises, investment in durable infrastructure, changing of internal mindsets, and stable democracy

It is impossible for a rational person to disagree with you, it just is.

ikeyman00:
bennyboy
fundamentally; i think its paramount u argue along the line with the subject

with the world of survival the fittest, its necessary that nigerians stand up and be counted for the cause of known?

Sorry Im not with you, what do you mean?

Gbawe:
I am not surprised you find this funny but the truth , if you care to look for for it , is that "Nigerians are taking over Nigeria" when the same cannot be said for many other Africans. When South Africa brought us  viewing entertainment with DSTV and telecom services with MTN how did Nigerians react? Did we beg our Government to kick out the South Africans?

No !!!! Instead of just accepting unfair monopolistic trade or begging our Government to 'intervene' we developed our own competitive viewing entertainment network with HiTV and Adenuga waded into telecoms with Globacom!!!!! Many things are wrong with Nigeria but some of you should know that Nigerians still retain the business intelligence and bravery that sees them prefer to rise up to a challenge and prove themselves.  Bring anything to Nigeria , and before long, Nigerians will attempt to deal in it themselves. Other Africans , on the other hand , may be comfortable 'importing' forever. When you have those qualities Nigerians have , naturally, others will hate you for it.

http://www.hitv.com.ng/

Firstly Nigeria has done its fair share of protectionism and "unfair monopolistic" trade whatever that means. Secondly Nigeria like most other African nations is very much a net exporter and even has a less diversified economy than some if you care to know. So here you go calling pigeon steps giant steps again.

PAININASS:
I hear say Nigeria dey get worse everyday,No job,No electricity,No gas,No air to breath,No security,Bad health care services,No law,No human right,why you maggots are so happy about this shit thread,you guys are talking about taking over africa,they are chinese of africa?but i have to tell you that there is abundant job in china,we need to invest at home first,be comfortable at home before we can invest abroad and that is exactly what white people normally does,as for the investment abroad,don't you think,our money laundering politicians are investing abroad because they don't want  nigerians to know their worth,what is good about investing abroad when your people are suffering at home?i hear say ADENUGA DEY LIVE IN GHANA because of EFCC,nigeria is running down and promoting economic of other african nations,we need to be carefull,and yes we are slaves arround the world,our people arround the world are sweeping snow,clean shit etc,and just last night the weather was -4 degree,can you guys imagine snow everywhere,even my electric blanket was getting cold?we nigerians abroad really want to be home but there is nothing at home,you guys should think about the future of nigeria not about those hearthless people investing abroad.

That is straight to the point my brother. Globalisation is not a substitute for Nation Building.

Gbawe:
You are agreeing with patently wrong reasoning ? Are Nigerians doing wrong for wanting to trade outside Nigeria in the spirit of globalisation? I guess it is fine when the USA sells everything to the world from Rap, porn to Hamburgers and acceptable for the Chinese to be everywhere in large numbers but "charity begins at home" when it comes to Nigeria and Nigerians. Nigerians should start inspecting the mischief-driven views of Non-Nigerians before agreeing with those views . We are a much maligned people but In this day and age of globalisation , where an ability to trade beyonds one's own border is a highly desirable quality , only a hateful , fearful or inadequate person will tell you that we should "stay in Nigeria" .

We should rightly feel shame for our negative export like 419 but let us not become brainwashed into self-hatred enough so that we start agreeing with non-Nigerians that our good qualities are bad and that we do no good beyond the borders of Nigeria. better that those telling Nigerians to stay in Nigeria address their own shortcomings and deficiencies that sees them unable to even dominate their own local business and trading enviroment instead of a fruitless attempt to attack qualities Nigerians have that the intelligent World deem desirable.

The World is becoming more of a global village. Nations will not be turned into closed forthresses because citizens fail to take advantage of local opportunities. Globalisation is inevitable. Those who are visionary will realise this. I am personally happy that we have no qualms trading beyond our borders. That is a quality that will be priceless when we begin to get our act together as a nation.We should not encourage those who want to pretend everything we export is bad when the actual truth , for anyone who actually cares to find out , could not be more different.

As much as you sometimes have a point you indulge in too many half truths, taking things out of context and misrepresentations. You are always picking inapplicable examples to back your invalid points.

Charity begins at home. If you don’t believe me read up on the importance of indigenisation in economics and also assess highly respected Michael Porter’s diamond theory. I hate to sound academic but you leave me no choice.

Can’t you see that America’s expansion was fundamentally different? Talking about burger king and Mcdonalds remember all these are not just symbols of America expanding but more importantly the success of corporate America in America. When did India become a force to reckon with? Indians have been far more aggressive business wise than Nigerians have ever been for decades but they only became a force a few years ago when its Government took full advantage of outsourcing and also developed the right IT strategy. Until then India was a hell hole that had some innovative individuals plain and simple. Progress begins at home. Quite simply taxation, restrictions on repatriation of profits, having to employ from the host country and even ownership laws makes expansion inappropriate as the main tool for nation building

Patting yourself on the back because action was taken to compete with DSTV, which is an isolated story as usual. What action was taken when the lack of basic infrastructure led to investments leaving to “lesser” nations? Or when education which is the back bone of development deteriorated and Nigerians had to go to Neighbouring countries for education? The answer Nothing, but these are the issues that matter.

The article which is patronising by the way, at best is stating a fact that we have known for ever, that Nigerians are intelligent. But so what if that was all that was needed Russia would be the greatest country.

A country that is more than capable of being a Malaysia or at least an India celebrating and calling others jealous because they end up on a list with Somalia a close second.

AjanleKoko:
@Gbawe,
Correct perspective bro.
Wonder when we'll learn to believe in ourselves.
That the rest of Africa fears us is in itself significant.

Delusions, and if they fear you its not for the reasons you are thinking about I can promise you that

mjay:
What's your beef? bennyboy? u dont have to tell us dt, accept it or not  the article is true,and in many ways than one and you have not seen anything. Imagine for instance even South Africa cannot do without us. The profit  MTN makes in Nigeria is unprecedented, DSTV with all their campaign makes so much  money in Nigeria. Imagine African magic, devoted to Nigerian Nollywood alone, while Africa Magic Plus takes care of the rest of Africa. Imagine if we do not have to contend with all our domestic problems. what else can I say, Nigeria is coming watch out!!!!!!!

I wasn't the only person that thought it was a good point but I guess mine stands out more for some reason. For the sake of Africa and West Africa in particular I hope Nigeria gets it right and the region gets the boost that could turns things around. So it’s not a case of “watching out for Nigeria” for me.

Only hard work, humility and being truthful to one's self can save Africa. Not noise unjustifiable arrogance and delusion. Ask yourself how can people realistically be envious of your current situation? And if nothing needs to change in terms of approach why is the so called forcefulness not improving people’s life and sorting out basic things that "timid" people are sorting out?

And before any unintelligent person makes any ignorant comment I am west African and a failed Nigeria is one of the Worst things that can happen to the region as a whole and therefore it is very much an issue that concerns me and rightly so.

lagerwhenindoubt:
We shall know our fate as soon as Ghanaians finish rolling out the first batch of Nigeria Must Go Bags  

That will never happen

asha 80:
It is better we start at home before venturing outside.

Most intelligent post so far

kuramo:
@Bennyboy11

I have a simple advice for you.  Why don't you confine your contributions to a forum like Ceddiland.com or Ghanaland.com. 

You should have enough worries about the problems and difficulties facing your compatriots.

Leave Nigerians alone to discuss their issues and how to solve them.

Unfortunately my friend the internet gives unparalleled freedom especially in discussion forums, so you are just going to have to not read my posts if they bother you that much I'm afraid.

AjanleKoko:
Two things.
Number one, these African nations haven't achieved anything, not even electricity.
Many of these nations are being supplied by some regional power, like SA and Angola. And they are scarcely industrialised, so their power requirements are miniscule.

Secondly, you notice the article doesn't talk about Nigeria the nation. It talks about Nigerians.
I'm sure you agree that those are two different things entirely. Not that I don't want Nigeria to be a united and developed nation. I just believe those things will work out with time. But I'd rather be Nigerian anyways.

I don't know which specific countries you are speaking of, but it is irrelevant anyway. If you take these supposedly failed states out of the equation then my point becomes much clearer. The bottom line is one key ingredient for industrialisation to occur is energy and this is regardless of what is happening elsewhere.

Your other point about other countries needing less electricity because they are presumably less industrialised than Nigeria is neither here nor there because if there is more economic activity in Nigeria than elsewhere like you claim then the wealth being created by these activities should make it relatively easier for Nigeria to meet it’s power commitments, which is elementary economics.

Nigeria is a country and being Nigerian a nationality, so yes it is different in that respect but not entirely, because there is an important interrelationship which makes my point valid. There is no Nigeria without Nigerians and neither can there be a Nigerian without the country Nigeria so true progress of Nigerians will always be measured by how well Nigeria is doing. Yes individual successes are commendable and mean something, but ultimately whether you like it or not there is a limit to how well Nigerians can be said to be doing without Nigeria itself improving. Africans as a people are looked down upon not because they aren’t absolutely brilliant individual Africans, it’s because as a continent, Africa is in a mess. The incredible selfishness we see is based on your premise, which is that you can distinguish yourself so much that where you are from becomes irrelevant. The earlier we realise how intertwined and indivisible the two things are the better it will be for Africa.

AjanleKoko:
Nice piece. Because that is the way it is.
We are hustlers, plain and simple, and we have the guts to pull off any type of business deal, scam, or heist.

I don't know why we seem to think Western businessmen conduct business like the Pope, in white cassocks, sprinkling holy water on the pounds/Euros/dollars. That's the image they like to paint of themselves, and gullible Africans believe them.

If you travel within Africa, you will be shocked at how developed Nigeria is, in terms of infrastructure (yes!) and commerce.
Those countries have 24 hours power supply, but some of them have capitals that look like Ado-Ekiti, and their banks are usually only Barclays, Standard Chartered, and what have you.

Yeah but electricity is quite basic and essential though. Achieving bigger things before the basics is a bit like wearing your underwear over your trousers, or building a house without a foundation.

Agression for the sake of aggression sometimes means you stand out amongst your peers, but is it worth it if the same aggression hinders nation building which is partly the case for Nigeria.

It would be nice to see Nigerians taking over Nigeria

sasuos:
my nigerian brothers, please stop living in ignorance, to every action , there is a reaction. nigeria banned ghanaian textile and goods to nigeria as far back as 1999. nigeria was the first to breach the ecowas aggreement. nigerian bussinesses were relocating to ghana because of power, the gov of nigerian in a bid to stop this, banned goods from ghana to naija, this is because goods manufactured by these companies in ghana go straight to naija. TILL YOU STOP THE BLAME GAME, YOU ARE DOOMED FOREVER, AND MAY god forbid that. ghana and nig have come a long way. please stop the ANTI GHANA SENTIMENTS, end of discussion

You are so right my brother. Not long ago there was an outright ban on sugar, confectionery, sweets and exercise books by the Nigerian Government some of these goods have been traded across the region for years. I'm not saying there couldn't be a justifiable reason for this but it puts things into better perspective.

I wonder what Gbawe has to say about all this.

Same old Nigerian misconception, your problems are more fundamental than that. You have this misconception that you do so much for neighbouring countries which is just not true. Mind you majority of peace keeping activities are partly western sponsored.

Megalomania is the disease some Nigerians suffer from.

Kobojunkie:
Would it make you feel better if Ghana was kicked out of ECOWAS for this act then, and Ghanaians tell you that they would not have it any other way? I am almost certain that this new law was not made over night and the country considered the possible consequences to its ECOWAS membership before embarking on and choosing to implement such a law.

It is sort of obvious from the many posts from the other side that some Ghanaians are not really concerned about possible ECOWAS consequences in this case, well, not as much as you seem to be.

That is very far from the truth. I think Ghana takes its Ecowas commitments very seriously contrary to popular belief. One poster talked about Ghana not contributing anything and looking to be isolated which is completely false. Ghana and Nigeria are particularly important members and have worked together on several issues not least peace keeping which is debatably the most pressing issue within the region certainly in recent times. I think there might actually be the need for intervention in Guinea soon if things don’t calm down again Ghana and Nigeria will stand shoulder to shoulder as in Liberia, Sierra Leone and elsewhere.

The truth of the matter is bodies like Ecowas, United Nations in recent times, and the commonwealth and so on should be seen for what they are. They are bodies that signify solidarity and our common interests, a tool for dealing with crises when they arise like they do in our part of the world. Actually I think our biggest achievements collectively as West Africans have happened through Ecowas, but Ecowas will never have the power to dictate on important political or economic issues.

Gbawe:
Bennyboy11 wrote:

Of course I do and anyone who can think will admit that protectionism is sometimes neccessary and justified. Since you appear civil , unlike Shesi who suggests people who disagree with him are "not okay" , I will ask you some questions also.

Do you believe that protectionist measures can be phased in gradually so as not to aggravate unemployment, destitution, bankruptcy and despondency?

Do you believe a Government is still 'protecting' its citizens with protectionist actions when it only deems it fit to enforce non-compliance penalties for a "general" policy against one group of people alone?

Is there no chance at all that persecution is at play here?

Its is true that some Nigerians have sadly been left unemployed and had their livelihoods taken away from them because they fell short of the $300,000 requirement imposed by the government. I however disagree with your assertion that the move would aggravate unemployment, destitution etc. The impact is insignificant and the numbers will drive my point home.

If you take the total number of Victims of this arguably unfair requirement as a proportion or percentage of Nigerians of working age willing and able to work it will immediately be apparent that you have over exaggerated it’s impact. Not to bring up the past but the return of over a million Ghanaians to a total population of less than 12 million and much lower if you count only the people able and willing to work, was definitely capable of destabilising our economy. Especially when you factor in the absence of their remittances, then the impact becomes a double negative in economic terms. I know you don’t Condon what happened to Ghanaians but I’m just making a point.

Regarding your other questions about Victimisation and unfairness, I can not say that everything is above board because I am sure we would agree on some of the nuances of this issue, however, to put the policy in perspective you need to see things from the Ghanaian Government’s view point for a second.

The key to a successful investment policy is to attract the right type of investments to avoid leaving your economy in tatters. I will use a far fetched example, take the premiership for instance, when assessing the impact of foreign players the conclusion drawn was that, if players coming in are of a superior calibre to the local players then English football will benefit as a whole, however if you have good players but not superior to but just as good as local players then the English game will suffer. This thinking is the premise on which a lot of immigration points systems of civilised and decent countries are based. All the Ghanaian Government is trying to do is avoid the $20k and $30k investors in small shops in Accra which Local Ghanaians have been doing for years and probably one Ghanaian a month does when they go back home from the US or the UK. Instead they want to attract investors like Adenuga and Bank owning Nigerians who we don’t have too much of locally and have the ability in my opinion to help in no mean way to move Ghana to the next level.

Singling out Nigerians was wrong and gave the wrong impression. I know I run the risk of sounding like I’m defending the indefensible but as far as avoiding the not so desireable investor mentioned above, Nigerians would be the main group to look at due to common language, similarities in taste, economic power and believe it or not closer ties compared to neighbouring countries. But the Mills Government absurdly singled out Nigerians which has deservedly attracted chastisement. If I’m not mistaken this has been extended to other Nationals which should have been the case in the first place.

I can however tell you for a fact that Ghana is very keen to attract Nigerian investments and “chasing Nigerians out” could not be further from the truth, it will never happen. If you want to talk about Nigerian/ Ghanaian rivalries on an individual person level, then that’s a different issue. It’s neither one sided nor relevant in my opinion.

People can’t wait for Globacom to start competing within the mobile phone market. How can there be anti Nigerian sentiments within Ghanaian business when a bank like Zenith was awarded bank of the year in Accra because it deserved it. The popularity of Nollywood movies, Nigerian nightclubs like xcel and other ventures in fast foods etc all dispel this notion. I know of multi million dollar unhindered Nigerian investments made within the soon to be the Ghanaian oil industry, these are facts I can vouch for myself.

When you put things into perspective you will realise this is all down to a Ghana first and Africa second approach which is completely fine by me because sadly no other approach is realistic in this Globalised Capitalist world of ours.