₦airaland Forum

Actually for all the people crying foul, a quick question for you.

Ecowas as a union came into existence around 1975, so what happened to the principle of free movement of labour and goods etc during the "Ghana must go" saga in the eighties?

Should Nigeria have been kicked out of the union or are the rules just meant for Ghana alone to adhere to?

KnowAll:
I beg moderator close this thread it has run its course, the topic here is hypothetical until such a time when the Ghanaian Government actually tells all Nigerians to leave it is an unnecessary waste of time that doesn’t warrant these entire hullabaloo.

Nigerians please stop pulling your hairs off for something that has not and might not even happen.

Of course if the Ghanaian government deem it fit for Nigerians to pay $300,000.00 to run a business in Ghana, what it simply means is that ECOWAS is dead and Nigeria should not bother attending such conferences anymore since it will only amount to a talking shop with no concrete communiqué.

We should be talking more of the scrapping and dis-banning of ECOWAS if anything at all

Ecowas as a union stands for a lot more than just economic corporation although admittedly economic corporation is an important part of it.

I think the regional corporation that Ecowas has brought is responsible for a lot of tangible achievements in the region. Lets not forget Ecomog's achievements in Liberia and other places as well as some economic corporation achieved.

I think the rules should be revisited to ensure that all member states benefit from the union. West Africa has different countries at different stages of development and different issues facing them. I think it's important that West Africans work together but not at the expense of individual progress

Osupru:
ikeyman00,

Now you want to talk about bad things people do? Don't even go there. Abi you know the headquarters of bad bad behaviour ? Nigeria is internationally certified for that.

Don't be sucked into a debate with unintelligent individuals you rightly figured out his small mindedness. Save your energy for intellectually stimulating posts

Liedetect:
Here is something for you to also think about


To all Ghanaian fumbling around in this forum if, you feel inferior and passive you are bound to see someone who is confident as loud. If your national characteristic is a tendency to sneak behind peoples, back and whisper in the shadows, obviously you will tend to see anybody who speaks openly and with confidence as loud. Worms that like the dankness of the soil probably think the sunlight too loud.  Nigerian people are brash for good reason, they have been there, done that and burn the shirt, they are not Johnny-come-lately. 

However, words hide deeper meanings. For instance, rather than admit Nigerians are confident people, those who admiringly dislike them might choose to use words such as brash, loud, cocky and arrogant. Bold and outgoing are also words that describe confident people. Likewise, meek, timid, mousy, passive are word used to describe Ghanaians. Sneaky, skulking, Jealous and bitter are also words that describe the nature of quiet people. The funny thing is, the negative words use to describe people who are confident are far more delightful than the negative words used to describe quiet people.

One thing further, it seems Ghanaians envy the way Nigerians act and would like to copy the Nigerian swagger but do not realise that it is the Nigeria true genuine nature. It is not an act.  Ghanaians on the other hand are not in touch with themselves and consequently exhibit bushman mentality. When you are in touch with yourself the things you do, which others who are bush condemn eventually becomes fashionable when they are able to do it themselves. This is why the Nigerian spraying of money, condemned by bush envious, bitter, jealous people, has now become popular amongst other cultures.

Finally, as I said before, Ghanaians desperately want to be like Nigerians but are too bush in mentality to do it successfully. Bush people are often too meek, misinformed and over do things based on ill-perceived notions. See how you Ghanaians have only just discovered oil and already have started partying and screeching hysterically to the entire world about your illusionary supper power status, wanting to pull out of ECOWAS, to kick foreigners out of your country, bragging that you are the giant of Africa and all this before the oil is even out of the ground.   



Stupid fools do not understand Nigerians are warriors. Our swagger come from culture, which informs how our women most walk and hold up themselves with virtue, and how our men must be brave and bold. They think we swagger because of labels or buildings or capitals and such stuff. Even in a mud hole we are what we are, warriors.




Hell, I might just change my username to SWAGGERING WARRIOR, lol.

This must be the most unintelligent posts I have read on this forum and that takes some doing. You exemplify the reason why Nigeria is in its current state and might continue to be for a while.

You exhibit a lack of common sense when analysing situations which leads to stupid conclusions being drawn and an unjustifiable praise for mediocrity. Some Nigerians not all (because I am too intelligent to make blanket statements) have that problem which manifests itself by a lot of noise being made with nothing to back it.

What swagger do you speak of? And even if it exists it should be curbed because being one of the worst governed countries in the world and impoverished is nothing to hold your head high about. Neither is having a terrible reputation all over the world. For your information Nigeria has never been a major economic force so don't talk about having been there and done that cause you haven't you are just praising mediocrity like I said. Would you not have preferred to have discovered oil at a time of improved governance like Ghana? Your obvious lack of common sense makes analysing issues difficult for you, hence you see early discovery of oil as an achievement by itself.

Show me a Ghanaian that would want to trade our economic and political stability, relatively safer, better governed and more internationally respected status for a Nigerian one and I will show you a pig that can fly.

If you are cosidering changing your name like you said how about "ignorant buffoon" it is most certainly more appropriate

Gbawe can I ask a quick question which addresses the fundamentals of this issue. Ignoring ecowas treaties and other related points for a second, do you believe that it is extremely important that citizens of any country are economically empowered and are more active and dominate wealth creating economic activities within its nation? And that any responsible government would and should one way or the other work to achieve this even if it means creating an uneven playing field?

I think this post is fundamentally flawed quite frankly. Why is it the case that Nigerian success is always measured in the context of the relative failings of other countries?

Too many posts on here are based on the dangerous premise that Nigeria is not doing badly because others are doing worse which is a defeatist attitude. Why can't it be the case that Nigeria is doing sell because Nigeria is doing well? The mind mindset of a forward thinking people should be to be better through positive strides and not through default.

Colonialists have messed up Africa without a shadow of doubt with their artificial boarders and quite frankly wasting our time by concentrating the world’s resources on developing a handful of their nations. When you throw in post colonial meddling and their cold war antics then it becomes impossible not to hold them at least partially responsible for a lot of what is happening in Africa today. But the question that really matters is in spite of all that, can we as a people develop? The answer is a resounding YES. We certainly have the resources, they stole some but we have way more left and with hard work and a resolute attitude we can develop as a continent. Countries like Nigeria certainly have the human resources to compliment their Natural resources.

So as opposed to adopting a sceptical, retrospective and conspiratorial view we should look forward and set good goals. Don't forget global investments are not controlled by a committee of ex colonialists. Multinationals that answer to their shareholders spearhead investments decisions. Therefore to say that they are conspiring to make South Africa more attractive is put politely inaccurate. Most people would invest in South Africa before Nigeria for obvious infrastructure and economy related reasons and that’s just the truth. To blame others for failing to make our own nations attractive investment destinations will do us no favours. Oprah's ignorance is not the reason for failing to attract investments the hard facts on the ground are!

Liedetect:
Sneaky Ghanaians at it again

Haven’t you all notice what the SNEAKY Ghanaian minister is doing, he is aware that his Ghanaian people are obsessing about Nigerians and insulting them and that it is getting to the stage where people are starting to notice that this having a go at Nigerians has gone beyond bantering and is looking unhealthy.  Therefore, in typical Ghana sneaky mode the minister wants to turn the perception around and make it look as if it is the Nigerians who do not like Ghanaians and the once with the unhealthy obsessions.

Nigerians need to wake up and realise that most Ghanaians have never liked them and that this manifests itself on many occasions e.g. at school they go around slaughtering Nigerians to Caribbean people.  In the work place, when talk of Africa takes place, Ghanaians likes nothing better than to slaughter Nigerians in the presence of oyibo, Caribbean and other none-African colleagues or anyone who cares to listen for that matter.

Nigerians do not seem to understand that the Ghanaian character seeks to avoid confrontation and while this at first seems like a good thing, it does not end with just avoiding confrontation. They go on to judge you behind your back and this is typically hypocritical and sneaky. They appear very friendly and always smiley however, as soon as you turn your back they will slaughter you.

I like the confidence with which you say they do this, that and the other. Groups of people are Homogenous are they? Well on the basis of your logic all Nigerians are Fraudsters and should be slated to all none Africans by Ghanaians, so no love lost.

larez:
All I have to say is that I apologize to my Ghanaian Brothers and Sisters, and hope they bear with us as we try to transform our society from one ruled by many miscreants into a model society such as Ghana. We, the average Nigerians though may love whooping your butts in football, still love and respect you as an extension of ourselves in Brotherhood.

Majority of Ghanaians appreciate the fact that these are not the views of average Nigerians and I am a little surprised that the Ghana high commission in Nigeria found it necessary to comment. I think this sort of banter has existed between the two countries for a long time and I consider it largely rivalry of a healthy nature quite frankly.

As a Ghanaian I am assured that Nigeria will rise again especially when I read well thought through, objectives posts of this nature and the general feeling of discontent i believe will soon force change.

You are however a very brave person for attempting to talk about football. I think butt whooping has been very one sided lately and we all know who's been doing the whooping. lol

Yeah I'm quite happy that we made it. Really hope Nigeria makes it too. I think Ghana, Ivory Coast and Nigeria would represent black Africa best.

Gbawe:
Can you not , as an obviously intelligent individual with an eye on the bigger picture , ignore the arrogance of the uninformed and unexposed? We are both "darkies" to the rest of the World . Our continent and its people are not exactly held in high esteem Worldwide. We should rally to each others support if at all we understand that we are the most underdeveloped region on the face of the Earth. We certainly have no business declaring superiority over each other when , in recognition that we each bring different 'meals' to the table , we should be supporting each other. Good Ghanaians should speak against what is happening in Nigeria but only in the esprit de corps hope that their Nigerian brothers and sisters will be liberated from the leadership tyranny Ghana also had to endure in the past . You will admit however that some Ghanaians (and perhaps I wrongly mistook you for that ) have allowed themselves to be carried away with all the nonsense to the extent that lording it over Nigerians , by accentuating our current woes , is the most important consideration .

Dont be fooled by the number of  my postings. I have not been a member of this forum for long at all. I have certainly not seen any "Ghana must go" post. My unequivocal position is that it was wrong for Nigeria to eject Ghanaians from Nigeria. The excuse that Ghana did same to Nigerians in the 70 is untenable to me . Man must evolve, improve and move forward not become more nearnderthal and visceral.

In conclusion it is our best men/women we must all put forward always if we are to enjoy continental peace, development and unity while diminishing xenophobia, protectionism and prejudice. That is what will promote progressive coexistant and simultaneously defeat the petty desire of some Africans to compete with other African when , in the words of Kwame Nkrumah, "Africa must unite or die" . Coincidentally , and on a national level , I think Ghana is doing well because it is promoting its best men and women to positions of authority and Nigeria continues to underachieve because it is allowing its most influential positions to remain in the hand of inept men and women who are the compromised choices of those who place vested interest ahead of national development.

Hear hear. My sentiments exactly. Our well being is intertwined all is not lost Africa indeed can Unite.

Gbawe:
well I guess I can understand where you are coming from. If you noticed ,earlier , I have already admitted to the existence of Nigerians who will  seek to belittle the achievement of Ghana and ungraciously cast it off as small and unimportant. That is wrong of them and I feel , as someone who is fiercely pan-African in outlook , that it is shameful some Africans shortsightedly prefer to jostle for supremacy without understanding that an African continent with uniformly prosperous nations is a credit to all of us.

To a large extent those in the West cannot differentiate between me and you. We are both Africans from the "beggar" continent  . I only got involved in this thread because I recognised what I assumed to be a bragadocious boast that sought to arrogate upon Ghana what it does not possess yet , in the typical spirit borne of the need to declare supremacy over Nigeria at all cost by some Ghanaians.

I care not for the Giant of Africa tag. I only care for an Africa that is working for you, me and all of us from every corner of it.

If you see my contribution to the Obama thread you will 'feel' my pride at Ghana for its achievement in showing the world that the "Monkeys" can be civilised and democratic when the likes of Nigeria and Kenya continue to embarass our continent by behaving as our Western detractors claim we are only able to .

We have to work together to move our continent forward rather than get bogged down with declaring superiority over each other when God has given us all different endowments. Disregard the arrogant Nigerians in future as they do not speak for all Nigerians.

Well said

Gbawe:
Objective Ghanaians , and indeed Africans, who are not blinded by hate admit Nigeria's potentials , if led well , to be the foremost nation in Africa. Anyone not choked with hate will understand that a Nigeria fulfilling its potential is not a bad thing at all for Africa and the World but thanks for the curse all the same . Conversely, I pray for Ghana to go from strenght to strenght because that will aid regional and continental development.





Thank you for your kind wishes. A "blown up" Nigeria will leave West Africa unscathed no doubt. Sad to see that Xenophobia has rendered you myopic to the extent you cannot understand that a Nigeria in crisis will mean West Africa in crisis and that , conversely , a healthy Nigeria is good for all West Africa- including Ghana.


The repellent Xenophobia , despite attempts to hide it , is now becoming obvious .This really is the crux of the matter is it not ? This is why Nigerian businesses alone now require a $300,000 capital base to operate in Ghana is it not? If you don't have the natural talent to compete against others who are more ambitious, more innovative and more outgoing get your Government to cheat on your behalf with crude protectionist practices belonging to the stone ages not so ?

Please hurry up and kick all Nigerians out of Ghana as many in Ghana are currently advocating. Hopefully those you kick out will be fired up enough to go back to Nigeria and begin the revolution to get the current indolent Government out. I guess kicking and keeping Nigerians out will solve all your problems and make you guys more dynamic, more ambitious and more outgoing in your business attitude. In line with your new found Giant status you will also now suddenly have the business acumen ,sagacity and go-anywhere-attitude to travel outside Ghana and dominate the continent 


http://www.triumphnewspapers.com/$3oosd1072009.html

Nobody wants to see bad things happening in Nigeria the Ghana Nigeria rivalry is generally a healthy one although occassionally it gets a bit messy but that's from both sides. Everyone appreciates what a booming Nigeria means to Ghana and the region. I for one would like to see a revolution in Nigeria so you can attain your full potential but it doesn't seem like it will happen any time soon so life goes on.

I however dislike the arrogance and ignorance exhibited here on occassions. How come nobody ever says anything about Ghana must go comments on here including yourself when thousands of Ghanaians where killed in the process.

Nobody has ever said anything about Nigerians returning Ghana is too civilised for such an undignified move

PROJECT:
benny,first and foremost am a nigerian living in ghana and i dont see what u should be happy about ,in ur statement u said ur judiciary is independent, well i will taell its not a clear case is the story of tsatu tsikata,when nana addo was the arttorney general we know how he kept changing tactics all to keep tsatu in jail juts to sell of vodafone,we know of the kojo mpiani ghana at 50 and how the police and bni was threatening the opposition or should i tell u of issa mobila and how the suspects were freed becos the govt said there were no witnesses,i could go on and on but really stop making a whole lot of noise an informed society is a developed society and how well informed are ghanaians ,over 80 percent of the citizen are not educated,anywhere u go u see their zenophobic attititude towards nigerians,apart from alhaji banda who is doing well and paa kwesi nduom who else can u talk about, u cannot talk of being the giant of africa when all u depend on is dole out from countries like nigeria who gives u oil on credit,america ,idia and china,, what investments do u have even in neigbouring togo,please dont build castle in the sky, nigeria only has leadership problem which will be overcomed soonest.i assure u, nigeria is giant of africa, charter house is a good example,gtbank,inetrcontinental.amalbank.and more

I like it when uninformed individuals with no attention to detail talk out of turn. Go back and read my comment on being African Giants before you post another comment. I know you are not attempting to compare the independence of our institutions with yours because that would be laughable. What happened regarding the issues you raised? When nana addo attempted to fast track cases including tsikata's case the courts halted proceedings because the fast track approach was deemed illegal under the constitution this was when the Npp was in government. Now that my friend, is independence. Corruption exists but there are systems in place, mr mpianim who you speak of is currently facing a committee of enquiry and a case is being put together to prosecute any Ghana @ 50 wrong doings. What happens when big men in Nigeria are called to answer questions? well they just don't turn up I remember that happening in the case of IBB.
What happened when Npp the Government of the day went to the high court about election results? what did the courts say about Asa b's wife's passport a few weeks ago? these are all decisions the courts took which went against the wishes of the Government of the day eveidence of independence so please check your facts. Don't let me start with the achievements of the electoral commission which is an imported and very independent institution. Do you have that level of transparency with your electoral commission? I doubt that very much.
The government did not say anything about the Mobila issue it was the courts that did, there was insufficient evidence look it up in a legal dictionary and it happens I can't see your point.

We can all come up with statistics and talk nonsense thats easy to do, 80% illiteracy I won't even comment on that. Like I tell you guys all the time when you stop trooping into our educational institutions in your numbers then you can make such comments.

Generally Ghanaians are not as rich us you guys because we are not as corrupt but your statement about banda being the only businessman must be a joke. It will be petty to mention individuals but do you know the likes ken ofori atta, togbe afede, or even sam jonah? well sam jonah is an advisor to the nigerian government on investment issues read about him. Bit of education for you generally businesses venturing out, go to compatible places and language for instance can be a barrier hence not a great deal is being done in togo. For your information data bank owned by ken ofori atta is a major player in financial services market both in Liberia and sierra leone. Regimanuel gray dominates the real estate industry in Sierra Leone. Word of advise don't be to taken in by super rich individual Nigerians most of then are the reason why you are a failed state.

Also there is nothing wrong with foreign aid as long as it is part of a strategy to build economic independence and not a permanent arrangement. Germany after the second world war was completely dependent on foreign aid for years so was Japan. Nigeria is far from independent so I can't see your point.

It doesn't help that the first few cases of armed robbery involved some Nigerians but that does not excuse anti Nigerian sentiments and I hope things improve on that front. Nigeria hasn't been that mature in the past either, we all know about the ghana must go saga. Ghana can't be that bad with an estimated 2 million Nigerians in Ghana about 10% of our population that speaks volumes by itself.

So check your facts before you post ignorant comments my friend and we will hopefully be supplying you with some electricity soon so maybe you should start showing some humility.

Gbawe:
Bennyboy , unlike Shesi who apologized when shown his error , you do not seem to have any honour !!! I have repeatedly stated that I don't care for the Giant of Africa tag. You have proven what I have suspected all along with your refusal to own up to stating that what you wrote is factually incorrect i.e Ghana is "the true Giant of Africa".

Instead you continue to move the goalpost by skirting mischievously around issues with utterances such as "My point is that Ghana currently is the happening place in the region.". Someone should tell you that "happening place" (whatever that is based on) does not constitute regional Giant.

Your motive is the same as I have witnessed from several Ghanaians i.e give a dog (Nigeria) a bad name and hang it in order and proclaim Ghana superior. As for your " happening place" claim I will only say that some of you are too swayed by what you read in the papers to know what is on the ground !!! If you think , because of all the negatives you read about Nigeria , all what you wrote below is not happening in Nigeria (especially the highlighted) then good luck to you;

For example, Eko Atlantic City , currently under construction in Lagos State, is the only project of its kind and scale in Africa !!! It is the equivalent of the Palms in Dubai. Dare I say that not many African countries can contemplate , let alone facilitate, such a Project. See it for yourself below.

http://www.ekoatlantic.com/

I cannot even begin to tell you of the Groundbreaking strides being made in Banking, telecoms, Property development , etc in Nigeria and by Nigerian businesses throughout the continent. Who is is taking 3G technology to Ghana ?(Hint the Nigerian -owned fastest growing telecom operator in Africa !!!).

I can show more "first of its kind" things happening in Nigeria but why bother? You clearly prefer to deal in conjecture that leads you to hastily believe all the negatives written about Nigeria now translates into the notion that everything is at a standstill there while everything is great in Ghana to the extent it is now the "happening place"

Granted , corruption is making life terrible for the average Nigerian . You would be correct if you state that things work better in Ghana because it has less corruption and its important institutions (Judiciary, electoral body, Executive, legislative, etc) work better than their Nigerian counterpart but you are simply decieving yourself if you now  think that everything has stopped working in Nigeria and that no progress is being made there. I think many folks are taking Obama's praises of Ghana and his put down of Nigeria to mean that he has now conferred "true giant of Africa" status on Ghana.

I am happy for Abbots. If the words of a hypocrite Politician who is not taken seriously in her own country now makes Ghana a Giant ahead of Nigeria in your eyes so be it.

http://www.newstatesman.com/200311030009



Those who see the big picture want all Africa to be happening places . They are not quick to bragadociously declare that they are "the true Giant of Africa" or that their nation is "the happening place" merely because they are the darling of the West currently while being totally ignorant of what is happening in other nations !!  

Here we go again with the mischief and moving of the goal post . The status of a regional Giant nation has clearly accepted parameters!!! That is all I have tried to point out to you. Accept that and move on. I am not saying Ghana is not working better than Nigeria currently but it is wrong to call your Nation "the true Giant of Africa" because democratic practices are strong in your nation while thinking Nigeria is suddenly a non-entity because it is badly led.

It is ridiculous and childish to brag that Ghana is "the true Giant of Africa" when many African nations are richer, stronger, more literate, more economically diverse and more infrastructurally sound than Ghana. That is all I am trying to show you. Continuing to argue means that , coupled with an ignorance of what is happening in many African nations , you have taken the praises of the West to mean what it does not !!!!

There are some very basic things you seem to be missing which I will highlight. I was speaking Metaphorically and have explained what now feels like a million times the essence of my initial post so I am really and truly done with this African Giant talk.

You talk about a lot of African countries being more developed in infrastructural terms than us which is very true. My pride in Ghana is in its chosen path and systems that have been put in place. You make a mistake that many Africans make you said just because Nigeria is "badly led" which gives the impression that being badly led is a minor issue. There is nothing more important than being well led, actually the only ingredient needed to build a country is good leadership every thing else can be substituted. Good leadership can even make a docile people astute, good leadership can provide resources where resources don't naturally exist. I can give you several examples of nations that have little or no natural resources that are the envy of the world. You casual statement of Nigeria being "badly led" shows your lack of understanding of what works. You should trade all your oil wealth for good leadership. Have you ever wondered why the UK which I would not place in the top ten most beautiful places remains a major world player? It is the respect for its institutions and sound leadership.

When it comes down to it, you will not find many African countries being led better than Ghana today and that’s why I am "bragging". Infrastructure can be build in a day, go to Dubai and see how oil money has transformed their infrastructure but putting the right systems in place and building an environment that good leadership can thrive in takes forever and that is what matters. South Africa probably makes Accra look like a village, but considering the turmoil within it, the disparity and low level of education amongst the black population caused by apartheid, coupled with HIV and current leadership worries, I would not rush to envy their position. I know it's a bold statement but I stand by it.

What did the building of Abuja do for Nigeria? Did it diversify your economy more? Did it change your image to the outside world? Did it address fundamental problems? the answer to all that is no. So what will the Eko Atlantic project which is very impressive i must admit or any other project do? nothing.

The name of the game is bottom up change and it has to be done painstakingly, it takes a long time and there are no short cuts. The point you are all missing is that Ghana has embarked on this long Journey and has further to go but the important thing is that we have began. That is the distinguishing factor. You on the other hand are looking for quick fixes, Nigeria approached Max Clifford to help salvage your reputation and he turned it down he would not be involved with a white wash. There were allegations of Rawlings being paid money to help with your reputation when he was president and current happenings gives credence to that story, but that’s irrelevant. Ghana has not paid a penny for its current reputation it comes naturally when you embark on the journey for true change. And don't attempt to belittle the importance of having a good reputation to the outside world in the current globally interdependent world because that would be naivety beyond comprehension.

This Eko Atlantic project is being built without proper lights in Nigeria. All the incredible mansions that we hear about in Victoria Island or wherever it is, depend on generators do they? Doesn't that sound like a fantastic building with no foundation to you? and we all know what happens to buildings without solid foundation. Isn't it amazing that the OECD recognises that Ghana has a more diverse economy than Nigeria? It means if Ghana begins to see an economic boom our foundations will be sound. Isn't it amazing that whiles fantastic ambitious projects are being undertaken like Eko Atlantic Ghana with better electricity than yourselves is solidifying its electricity by investing heavily in it now? Your change is top down ours is bottom up and we'll see which lasts longer and yields better fruit. Don't be impressed because with the investment any project is doable anywhere.

The most important achievements of any society are usually intangible and only discernible by people with intellect and foresight. It might therefore look like I have nothing to write home about but don’t be fooled.

In conclusion if your current president does not have the mandate of your people like I have heard people on here saying, and elections become a season for bloodshed and mindless killings, and there aren’t systems and independent institutions which ensure accountability and repercussions for corruption then I am afraid that YES Nigeria is standing still or pobably even going back whiles Ghana is moving forward in spite of projects like Eko Atlantic.

JamesG:
@Bennyboy11

This forum is really for Nigerians tackling issues in Nigeria - not Ghanians. Ghana is the greatest country in the world,  now please leave!

The topic doesn't sound Nigerian though does it?

sherry lo:
@Shesi your fact is everywhere,even in Accra. Tell a young girl please I want to buy water and the next thing you will hear is " minti brofu"I don't understand English!!.

Are you still insistent on this Ghanaian illiteracy nonsense? Saying it several times won’t make it true you know. Check the illiteracy rates for both countries you are computer literate aren't you?

Let me remind you my dear broken English is not as popular in Ghana as it is in Sierra Leone and Nigeria and remember speaking broken English is not speaking English so stop exhibiting your ignorance.

Talking about education aren't Nigerians fighting tooth and nail to get into Ghanaian universities?

ikeyman00:
[size=20pt]to all ghana must go brother!!!!!![/size] on the thread

now yall listen!!! and listen carefully

this man like here aka superman cannot i repeat decieve in anyway on the condition the election was ran in ghana

yes like some ghanaian said here, nobody could educate on the history of ur great country, but what u failed to tell the nigerians is emm alot of other tribes in ghana aint happy Mill won, cuz they beleived he simply won only because he came from ewe right tribe

now this is accusation from ghananains not from me, cuz they knew deep inside that the man is criminal

if na lie ask the ebos-ashanttis


like watchin the ghanaians delibrating on issues with regard to nigeria

hmmm still here

watchin ha

WHAT??

Gbawe:
Why do you say no ? I never disputed or confirmed the truth of what you said. When I said "try and be careful in future" I hope you know that I was talking to Shesi and not you ? I was just making it clear to Shesi not to quote me as making a statement I never did. Shesi  , even as I don't see how that is an easy mistake to make ,  claims I hold certain views based on what was written by you. That is wrong and injurious to my character.  I can only conclude that Sheshi made that mistake in the haste to square up to a Nigerian who is "bellittling" Ghana when that is not my intention at all.

I have stated repeatedly that Nigeria is not a Giant of Africa. That tag is meritoriously deserved by South Africa. I was only keen to point out to Bennyboy that Ghana is not "the true Giant of Africa" as he claims. Even with all our problems it is still obvious to anyone who is conversant with the qualities of a regional Giant that Nigeria is still far more a Giant in West Africa than Ghana is . We all wish Ghana well but let us not  fabricate outright lies to support our positions and arguement.

Nigeria sucks . We all know it but it is still the Giant of West Africa to those who understand the parameters that define a regional Giant . When Ghana is not even the Giant of West Africa how can anyone now claim it is the true Giant of Africa because it has constant electricity and  its electoral and democratic institutions are strong ? Let us keep discussions rich and informative not childish and innacurate.

I think you should save us the semantics. Your technical definitions of giants of a region are neither here nor there. I have repeatedly told you this is not the importance of my post. You should look at substance over technical form. How important is it that you are seen as a giant and to borrow your own words "suck" as well. This title on the basis of your own post is worthless and not worth another post.

My point is that Ghana currently is the happening place in the region. We are attracting the crème of West African society. Trassaco Valley is full of Sierra Leonean millionaires that have come in with their wealth, other parts of Accra is attracting high calibre Nigerians and other African professionals from all over the world. Professional Ghanaians are moving back home in their numbers with confidence, businesses are relocating from other parts of the region to Ghana. Whether factual or fake, people consider Ghana as different and like the saying goes perception is reality.

Externally people are warming up to Ghana tourism is at an all time high. Diane abbot called Nigeria a failed state or something but sends her only son to be educated in Ghana because she has enough confidence in the place. You might see this as unimportant but brand Obama visits Ghana at the height of his popularity. The OECD offically acknowledges Ghana as having the most diverse economy in the region which to people who know is a very big deal. These are all hints, something good happening.

The timing of our oil find could not be better and although unlike a lot of other people I don’t place huge significance to it, it is still a positive development. You can't help but thing that God has a personal interest in Ghana

So my brother on the basis of your definition I bestow on you the title of Giants of Africa, but Ghana is still the happening place and I pray God continues to make us the happening place and never the giant on the basis of your definition.

sherry lo:
@bennyboy,I am not arguing about which country is more corrupt,all I am saying is they are also trying to bring down the level of corruption in their country not that there is no corruption at all there. That they are the new symbol of grate Africa like some people are trying to portray, no!

It just seemed like you were spending too much time nitpicking and also coming up with inaccuracies like akuffo addo being a drug dealer and Ghanaians being illiterates which was simply absurd.

Like I said there is corruption everywhere and Ghana is no exception but it sounds rich coming from you when everybody knows corruption is a bigger problem in Nigeria. I also think contrary to what you believe that recent developments in Ghana have thrown a positive light and told a different story about a continent often seen as troubled. I think you should at least appreciate that and realise that it has an impact not Just on Ghana but Nigeria and the whole region too.

The west often thinks that Africans aren't civilised enough to adopt democracy without appreciation of difficulties peculiar to Africa. Like divisions caused by their stupid boarders and cultural differences. But Ghana showed that it is possible for Africans to govern themselves and yes that greatness is possible in Africa. The elections were not perfect but certainly free and fair and there were no reports of any deaths either. This is not an achievement in African terms only look at the likes of Iran or even Russia.

You are completely underestimating what has been achieved which is sad. Imagine Ghana carrying on with its current culture for the next couple of decades which is possible. Not only will we be comfortably a middle income country or better but a model that shows the whole world that Africans are not inferior, a truly exciting prospect. And coincidentally we being the first country in Sub Saharan Africa to gain independence would dispel the notion that there is a correlation between colonisers leaving and countries falling apart.

sherry lo:
@Manuel,and if their leaders were responsible what do you think Akwatia {their diamond land} and Obuasi [their gold land}should look like? The Govt extract this things without even if people live there or not.Ask about Consolidated diamonds, its a govt company like the Cocoa board but It has packed up why?corruption!eaten to the bone.They only tell you what they want to be told.

Anyway it's Africa and we are doing our thing.

You have an incredible fight ahead of you if you are trying to portray Ghana as being more corrupt or as corrupt as Nigeria and if you succeed I will get you to sell a ford fiesta as an x5 because your powers of persuation would be second to non. After more than $300bn of oil revenue you have nothing to show for it. You were talking about Accra being the only place with 24hr lights in ghana which is a lie by the way but anyway how many hrs of light do you get in Lagos? Not a single airport better than Ghana's in the whole of Nigeria, roads not better, education system not better after $300bn in oil revenue. Common sense would tell you that the fact that Ghana has earned way less but achieved these things in itself means it is less corrupt.

Have you read the systems that have been put in place to deal with Ghana's oil revenue going forward? corruption exists everywhere parliamentarians in the uk and iraq contracts given to US companies proves it but there are levels of corruption. whether you like it or not there is more fraud, armed robbery and government corruption in Nigeria than Ghana.

You seem very worrried about Ghana's problems again I would worry about Taliban style attacks in the north nigeria, kidnapping and distruptions in oil producing regions  to name a few of your problems, non of which touch wood we will ever have to deal with in Ghana.

Gbawe:
My friend be more pragmatic in reasoning . Utterances such as "underestimate us at your own peril" means that you see national (and perhaps unhealthy)  competition that may lead to harmful protectionism (some would argue that case already with Nigerian businesses alone required to possess a £300,000 capital base for operation in Ghana) where you should note productive national coexistence.

Ghana and its people are what they are . Nigeria also. The wise man notes his natural strenghts and that of those around him. He does not delusionally arrogate upon himself strength he  is physically and innately deficient of. I suspect that if you could have a truthful conversation with Obama today he would confess that , respected as Ghana is currently , Nigeria is the particular and strategic nation that needs to 'up its game' for Africa to undertake huge developmental strides. hence the current effort to shame Nigeria into assuming its continental leadership role.

Most Nigerians are secure enough in themselves to praise Ghana for how it is 'schooling' us in democratic and electoral practices but don't take that to indicate you are now the "Gaint of Africa" ahead of Nigeria . We have vast potentials that , if realised , will automatically ensure we claim our position as the real "Giant of Africa" . I am one of Nigeria's biggest critics and I am also its greatest supporter in noting it strenghts . Personally I am not interested in my nation being viewed as the "Giant of Nigeria" but I find it factually decietful when Ghanaians can now view their nation as the "Giant of Africa" when they cannot play Nigeria's role if the defense of our continent suddenly becomes an issue today !!!!!!

I don't see my nation to be in competition with any other - I just view the statistics disspassionately in observing that , in reality , Nigeria , even as we do not currently merit the tag , is still more of a "Giant of Africa" than Ghana is or can be when the factors that matters are taken into consideration . You , if you see the big picture and understands its implication for Ghana and Africa ,  should pray for a progressive Nigeria.



Not at all. You see it that way because you fail to comprehend my logic. America gives the World popular culture today with its music, eating habits, spoken accent , education curriculum, political sytems, etc, etc . Like or lump it , those things are indications of the USA's intellectual dominance and greatness. When a nation produces the Worlds foremost experts in many fields you have to recognise their 'gift' . In Africa , wether you want to admit it or not , Nigeria is doing similar with how we are exporting our culture and thinking rather than accepting those things from others. Music, movies, literature, etc from Nigeria is now dominant in Africa . Virtually every African now knows what "wahala" is similar to how the America's dominant and all-conquering hip-hop culture gave us the word "player" and "player hater".

Simple experiment for a citizen of the "Giant of Africa". Next time you are in Ghana please count the pages of the foremost Newspaper of Ghana -  the Daily Graphic - to indicate the complexity and newsworthiness of occurences in Ghana attesting to the "Giant nation" status you arrogate upon yourself (hint - nowhere near the Times newspaper of the UK ) . Then ask for a copy of even a small Nigeria newspaper( hint- equal to the volume of the foremost Newspapers of the most advanced nations of the World) to understand the natural diversity and complexities of events and occurences in Nigeria that qualifies it for Giant Status (similar to South Africa ) in direct comparison to the diverse scope of daily events that has made  the World's top nations great enough to facilitate the export of culture and life habits to others.

It's a shame that you conveniently ignore parts of my statements and take some out of context to enhance your posts. I clearly stated the redundancy of the African Giant concept. If it means that much to you keep it but I would rather not be a giant and improve as a nation.

I said "understimate us at your own peril" in response to your claims that Ghanaians were not innovative enough. All I'm saying is that we also have high achievers that can steer progress contrary to your assertion. You can put an African disunity spin to it if it serves your purposes.

No educated African or West African for that matter would underestimate the impact Nigeria could have on the region or even the continent if it got its house in order. I have said on many occasions that if nigeria does well I would rather be supported by Nigeria than western nations for obvious reason and I still share that view.

However if this dream that we would all like to see happen does not seem to be materialising then what do you expect surrounding countries to do? If investors see Ghana as being more attractive or as the gateway to the region then so be it. I love Africa but I love Ghana more and so it should be. It is naive for you to think that we should think continentally when even some individual countries are so divided that they can't even live together. Who in thier right mind would take on such a logistacally impossible task. One of my favourite African leaders of all time Kwame Nkrumah , learnt the hard way that charity should begin at home. The peoples of the continent althought united in many ways instinctively and naturally look out for thier own. South Africa premitively proved it not long ago and I still see Ghana must go jokes on this forum as a reminder of the limits of African unity.

The united kingdom used to be incredibly powerful and one of the biggest empires in the last few centuries. Even America was it's colony as you probably already know but today that is far from the case. The moral of the story is that firstly taking the lead role is not dependent on natural conditions like size, diversity and other traits alone because Britain lead the world as a tiny little island. Secondly, with any human system the lead role will be assumed by whoever if it is left vacant because Britain didn't work hard enough America took it,  and there is the prediction that china will take it if America slacks. Before you interpret this as me claiming that we have taken it from you all i'm saying is the lead role is not to be taken for granted or a God given right.

It is a fact that Ghana in the past did look up to Nigeria but it is certainly not the case today. Quite frankly apart from excessively rich Nigerians that we hear about which I personally see as dispicable in cases where corruption is the root of thier wealth, there is nothing else to write home about . The things you point out as evidence of your leadership is merely highlighting your potential and not your greatness. Yes you have a big population majority of Africans are Nigerian, yes I am sure we all use nigerian words but so what? Many parts of asia were influenced by China in terms of thier food and even culturally because there was so many of them, but Japan a tiny spec in comparison for a long time had all the respect, economic and political swagger. And even today is a better country inspite of chinese strides. Who cares about your insignificant dominance in irrelevant areas when you only serves as the way not to do things when it matters. All I've seen in articles since ghana's oil find is how Ghana can avoid being a Nigeria.

You once again seem to underestimate Ghana's contribution to the region and again please don't interpret this as claiming to be the giants. We have a rich history of intervention and support, when ever Nigeria has helped to restore calm in the region we have stood shoulder to shoulder under ecomog. At the hieght of the Liberian civil war when most other countries refused Liberians entry we took in our Liberian brothers. Budumburam is one of the biggest single settlement areas for refugees in West Africa. We have also done our bit for the likes of sierra leone and Ivory coast. We are still credited for providing the most signifinant inter african financial package in African History. Check your history books for Ghana's assistance of Guinea after thier independence.    

Anyway in conclusion forget about the African giant noise, perhaps we dont have the clout to be giants but neither do you have the organisation to be the giants. Using Giants, Leadership and Nigeria in the same sentence makes many people uneasy!

Gbawe:
My friend take it easy !! Do you actually understand what a regional giant is ? Don't be fooled by the endorsement of Obama and the West. In the real sense of the Word Nigeria is far more a Giant of Africa than Ghana is. I won't start listing the considerations that indicates regional dominance suffice to say it is not democratic and electoral excellence !!!

As an individual proud of Ghana's achievement while being very familiar with your nation I will urge you and fellow Ghanaians to desist from delusions of grandeur. For all Ghana's laudable achievement of late the average Ghanaian , is still not aggressive enough in terms of business, economic and enterpreneural dynamism  to build rapidly on the electoral success of Ghana and turn it into vast economic success as we see with leading nations of the World.

If I were you I would worry about how every aspect of the Ghanaian economy is increasingly being dominated by foreigners (to include Nigerians) while many Ghanaians are happy to remain in the diaspora when opportunities abound at home under a stable political climate. Where will you not find a KFC or Burger King in testimony to the global business aggression of Americans ? Nigerians , whatever you think of them , are the same in Africa in testimony to how we don't recognise borders in our quest for business expansion and opportunities.

You should , for example , worry about how a "giant of Africa" has its main restaurant chain entirely in foreign hands - Papaye, Frankies, On-the-run (all Lebanese) and Mr Biggs (Nigerian). You should also worry about the  success of Nigerian banks in Ghana. I would also be concerned about how the telecom sector is now locked down by Nigerian, Lebanese and South African players. You just don't call yourself the Giant of Africa - you must think and act like it !!!! Nigeria bashing is in vogue lately but lets keep it real . Ghana deserves the praises it is getting lately but Ghana cannot be a regional Giant with a people who are not naturally dynamic, aggressive , expansionist and innovative !!!!!

We Nigerians may have our problem but we still remain probably the most dynamic people in Africa and nothing can take that gift from God away from us . When we sort ourselves out then the World will see Nigeria realise the fate God intended for us when he endowed us with plenty to include some of the best natural  and human resources known to man . For example , it is not many African nations , in testimony to consistent intellectual sagacity , that can boast of  producing  so many world-acclaimed literary giants to include a Nobel Prize winner in literature !!!!

Ok Gbawe I consider your post intellectually stimulating enough to warrant a comment, I will ignore comments calling me a jerk etc which to me exhibits basic mindedness and a limited vocabulary, doesn't deserve my time i'm afraid.

You make a fair point and Nigerians are without doubt industrious and have shown themselves to be forward thinking especially outside of Nigeria. But this is why I believe Ghana is leading the way.

In Africa political stability, systems that work, and a positive image is everything. A lot has been done in Ghana in the last few years and should ensure that the current stability remains. We have trully got independent institutions that work. The electoral commission, the Judiciary are trully independent and the culture of democracy is entrenched in Ghanaian soceity. Whoever it was that belittled our election as just showig common sense and not being special above should realise that it is no mean achievement, for your information in india the worlds biggest democracy and what is seem as an emerging market, people die during every election. So until you've achieved it dont belittle it.

I also think you are underestimating Ghanaian innovation. If you strip out corrupt billionaire ex government officials from Nigeria and factor in the fact that your population is 6 or 7 times ours, then there is not much between us. I will show you 1 Ghanaian investment banker, engineer, hedge fund manager for every 6 or 7 Nigerian investment banker etc. We have seen the biggest return of high calibre people in the last few months. I am talking of investment bankers and hedge fund managers and the sort.

Don't forget a lot of Lebanese businessmen where born in Ghana hence the economic impact is virtually the same. Nigerians that are investing which I am very much in favour of, does more good than harm. Nigerian investments total a couple of billion dollar and what is wrong with foreign direct investment. The fact that china holds majority of US federal bonds, or that the saudi's own 10% of America does not make them any less of a giant.

I would worry if we were clueless and sitting on the sidelines. There are several Ghanaian owned banks and financial institution (unibank, fidelity, unique trust etc) we have a lot of astute business men, after all we were the first african nation to have a listed company on the NYSE. Tutu agyare was the first black trader in the UK and currently impacts Ghana's economy with his operation greatly. I dont believe in tribal stereotypes but as stereotypes go Ashanti's are as aggresive in business terms as Ebos if my Ebo assumption is right.

I would never sacrifice our nature as a people for anything, its the basis of our peaceful country and the reason why we have never had a full blown civil war and touch wood wont ever have one. Aggressiveness for the sake of aggressiveness is distructive, is nigeria not aggressive enough to sort out thier electricity problems and infrastructure? We in Ghana are slowly building our nation, we have free education to primary school level and currently working on including secondary level, a national health system which is about to be a single payment system for the whole country, primary kids have free feeding and tansport, best roads we've had since independence, produces more electricity than nigeria which is 6 or 7 times our size and currently building another dam. Ghana is quietly aggressive underestimate us at your own peril!!

Finally talking about individuals like you did is a bit petty, I admire Wole Soyinka but I can talk about the likes of Prof allotey who is the only african to have his own theory in maths (allotey's theory) but who cares. Kofi annan is Ghanaian too but its not about individuals my friend.

The concept of African Giant is redundant but when it comes down to it we currently look more like giants than you do, it's not the size that matters or potential that matters its tangible achievements that speaks volumes.

Jerry Rawlings is one of the most deluded individuals in Africa. He has a completely over rated impression of himself and has trully gone past his sell by date. It is common knowledge in Ghana that he is not mentally all there, and is on medication hence his gaining as much weight as he has in recent times. He really should not be taken seriously. The most ridiculuous thing I ever heard from him along with with his current nonsense, was the fact that President Kuffour was killing people in Ghana. He actually came to the uk holding semininars and spreading such outrageous stories about the kuffour government which lost him respect in civilised quarters.

I mean lets face it how stupid is the above story? How can Nigeria a country that is yet to host an election the quality of what we have come to take for granted in Ghana, take any credit for our current achievements? An African Government in power losing an election to the opposition with around 40,000 votes and not a drop of blood spilt in the process. This is trully the best thing since sliced bread and Nigeria in my opinion is between 50 and 100 years away from achieving that

Ghana has achieved political maturity and are the true Giants of Africa. Democracy has trully blossomed and reached all areas of our society. For a nation to attain a bloodless free and fair election like we did, it takes more than just the leaders being convinced by others to step down, a fact that people on this forum will not be familiar with because of the lack of exposure to true democracy . In kenya both leaders begged their supporters to back down to no avail.

In conclusion I would completely ignore Jerry Rawlings's stupid statements like most Ghanaians have and concentrate your Nigerian efforts on saving your own failed state. The taliban type developments, unrest in your oil producing regions which have distrupted production, endemic corruption, the image as probably the one of worst nations on the planet are more real and factual than your claims of your involvement with Ghana's recent achievements which has absolutely nothing to do with you.

As a Ghanaian I will continue to bask in glory and pride myself with our recent achievements whiles patiently awaiting the death of Jerry Rawlings.

Dam!! we all have issues as African Nations but which way for Nigeria. There is high tensions due to corruption and mistrust, then the oil rebels, and now taliban style attacks.

My only fear is that this Enormous failed state does'nt finally explode and spill over the whole West African region like Melting Magma. Taking down all of us withit

Fhemmmy:
Obama visited Ghana before Nigeria and now it is all cos of Oil.

Exactly that is the bottom line

back2back:
you are stilling dodging the question:

The blame is for things that happened before/during the action not what you did after the action.

why US did not blame itself for 9-11?

if you dont know the answer. Leave it.

you seem to think you have a worth while line of questioning which is a shame. What the hell does it matter so America are wrong, have you heard the phrase" two wrongs dont make a right".

Say something else this is'nt working

Your reply to my other post is not very clear but I didn't think it would be cause quite frankly there isn't much you can say to that.

As a Ghanaian I would be more upset if there was no demand for the oil discovery due to electronically powered cars that would be a shame.

You are talking like they are about to colonise us for our oil. For your information world dd and ss controls oil prices and not a servant master relationship. This is an opportunity for Ghana to improve life for its people and just you watch that happen.

People talk about Iraq war being about oil, it might be I don't know about all these conspiracy theories but what I know is that its been forecasted that Iraq's government stands to gain $1trillion yes $1trillion in the next 15 to 20 years and if they are more sensible than nigerian governments they could significantly improve iraq beyond recognition.

I have had enough of the victim mentality you have the rebel part sorted you now need to find a cause

So what are you saying then?

Ok so without going into details relating to 911 I presume you are convinced the US have themselves to blame for 911.

Granted even if that's the case does the fact that America is being unwise in that respect justify you acting in the same way. Essentially what you are saying is that it is alright to act a fool as long as America is. Just being defensive for defensive sake my friend, face the truth.

Always blaming others for your mistakes. World factors and conflicting interests and ideologies will always exist but it's up to you to look out for you. Nigeria has nothing to show for over $300bn of oil revenue since you became independent. The opportunity cost of having chief this and chief that in thier private planes etc is your current state of existence.

Yes imperialism exists and it can and does hamper progress. You only need to look at the reaction to chinese recent successes to realise that people in high places hate progress elsewhere and would love to maintain the status quo, however after $300bn in oil revenue which you physically had in your own hands, it would not be over ambitious to see constant electricity, clean water and basic infraustructure in Nigeria sorry but that part Na your own fault.

You can be a sceptic all your life or make the best of the cards dealt you. I think Obama represents seismic change in the world order and Africans should take advantage and try and improve our lives. The next eight years if he is reelected will be the least imperialistic America is likely to be ever. I am happy that Ghana's framework seems to be in order at this opportune moment.

I'm not saying they are making a difference, I'm saying they do have high achievers. They are like Ghanaians as far as education and striving to do better, but obviously with such a population they are bound to have more achievers. No need to mention names because it is beside the point but usually black achievers are African and not always but a lot of the time Nigerian.

But don't miss the point Ghana has more control over its future than nigeria that's what I meant