₦airaland Forum

https://www.nairaland.com/217342/festus-keyamo-replies-omoyele-sowore

FROM FESTUS KEYAMO TO OMOYELE SOWORE,

Dear Mr. Omoyele Sowore,
> >
> > Thank you so much for your letter dated the 7th of January,
> > 2009, which you sent to me via e-mail. In fact, I was just
> > settling down the next day to digest some of the information
> > you supplied when I got calls from many quarters that the
> > letter was already on the internet inviting comments from
> > the public. I want to thank you for your wisdom in doing
> > this because for people like you and I who insist on
> > transparency in public life, we cannot be exchanging letters
> > that imply so much behind the scenes.
> >
> > So, even though you did not inform me of the open nature of
> > the letter to me except that I got to know from
> > well-wishers, I am informing you that this reply will be
> > on-line for the public to digest just as yours also was.
> > Fair enough, I guess?
> >
> > Let me briefly comment on the personal nature of the letter
> > you addressed to me. People may not know, but we have known
> > each other for nearly fifteen years now, especially from my
> > days in Gani Fawehinmi Chambers when some of us formed the
> > National Conscience (not a party then) to fight the
> > military. You were then a student at the University of
> > Lagos, but I cannot remember whether you joined the movement
> > then. I only remember a few years later when you had
> > problems with cult members whom you claimed you were
> > fighting and we all believed you. Your confrontation with
> > them led to your abduction by the cultists from whose hands
> > you were later rescued. When you graduated shortly after,
> > you visited my office then at Maryland a number of times to
> > intimate me of your intentions to travel abroad to treat
> > yourself. According to you, the poisonous substances that
> > were injected into your body by the cultists, needed to be
> > flushed out of your system.
> >
> > A few papers reported this at that time. Then, I remember
> > you had no job. You eventually travelled abroad on medical
> > grounds to "flush the poisonous substances from your
> > system". As a friend, let me apologise for not following
> > the treatment for more than ten years now, even when you
> > visited me when you were in Nigeria a few years ago. I hope
> > the treatment is going on well in the U.S? Even though it is
> > more than ten years, I know these treatments take some time.
> > Please, send some of the duly authenticated medical records
> > to me as a friend for me to know how far the treatment has
> > gone. You may also wish to make it public like the previous
> > letter to me. This may dispel any insinuation from bad
> > people that you falsified medical papers to travel abroad in
> > search of a better life which is the worst form of
> > corruption. Just as you said you admired my activist
> > credentials, I can also vouch for you that you are still
> > undergoing treatment till today. Please, send the records.

MuttleyLaff:
https://s8.postimg.org/dab0wz4hx/Watching_U.jpg
Be careful in responding back
Stop being petty
Why would God need to, want to or have to lie bro?
Whats all this straw man approach about?. What you driving at, hmm?

Do you really follow and understood the context of that verse (i.e. Numbers 23:19)
Did you at all grasp what both ''God is not a man'' and ''neither the son of man'' means?
Did you notice there is a sharp distinction in ''the son of man'' and ''Son of man''?

MuttleyLaff:
distinction in ''the son of man'' and ''Son of man''?

maybe you need to also know that the issue here is not about the distinction in ''the son of man'' and ''Son of man''(diversion from topic ) i think But the distinction between the nature of God who is the father whose nature cannot lie(not need to lie or whatever) allegedly said to transform to a nature whom every person in that nature is by defaulf 'a liar' and 'a sinner' Romans 3:23 "for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God" (so as to suit a pre-conceived idea that suggest that God the father was the same person in human nature 'a liar by default' or need to be a liar, (by your analogy) read again Romans 3:4: “Indeed, let God be true but every man a liar.”

MuttleyLaff:
https://s8.postimg.org/dab0wz4hx/Watching_U.jpg

Why would God need to, want to or have to lie bro

one thing i dont like is to stylishly withdraw statements or play down on statements expecially when answers are needed:

you actually said this below in affirmation without giving conditions;

God will be,whatever God will be.
God will be, whatever God needs to be.
God will be, whatever God wants be.
God will be, whatever God can be.
God will be, whatever God has to be.



then i only help you to apply the human nature 'not just as something to be pulled on and off' but what bible says about it in

Romans 3:4: “Indeed, let God be true but every man a liar.” should be taken seriously and not be sidelined in its applications when needed most

hence

God will be,whatever God will be. (i.e a liar) in an event that he eventually pulled on a human skin
God will be, whatever God needs to be.(i.e a liar) in an event that he eventually pulled on a human skin
God will be, whatever God wants be.(i.e a liar) in an event that he eventually pulled on a human skin
God will be, whatever God can be[b].(i.e a liar[/b]) in an event that he eventually pulled on a human skin
God will be, whatever God has to be.(i.e a liar) in an event that he eventually pulled on a human skin

this is not a question of 'why would God need to lie,okay! so can you answer pls?

MuttleyLaff:
God will be,whatever God will be.
God will be, whatever God needs to be.
God will be, whatever God wants be.
God will be, whatever God can be.
God will be, whatever God has to be.

one by one let me start by this very opening post,

Numbers 23:19
God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good?

Malachi 3:6: “For I am the Lord, I do not change.”

Romans 3:4: “Indeed, let God be true but every man a liar.”

sir, can God be a liar, or even lie, when he(in an event eventually pulled on a human skin) and as such under a perceived limited circumstancies of human limitation (so to say) that is because he is said to be limited by human nature or command...he eventually lie/lied/ became a liar, i need a simple answer to harmonise these below as truly what you really mean; that

God will be,whatever God will be. (i.e a liar) in an event that he eventually pulled on a human skin
God will be, whatever God needs to be.(i.e a liar) in an event that he eventually pulled on a human skin
God will be, whatever God wants be.(i.e a liar) in an event that he eventually pulled on a human skin
God will be, whatever God can be.(i.e a liar) in an event that he eventually pulled on a human skin
God will be, whatever God has to be.(i.e a liar) in an event that he eventually pulled on a human skin

My defination of a liar is already alluded to in Numbers 23:19 that is
''God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it''

MuttleyLaff:

God obtain a body, in another person (of Jesus) so as to operate on earth

Can you tell us the character that is saying that 'my servant' who is also telling another character 'the servant' in the old testament isaiah 42:1 before jesus came to the earth

isaiah 42:1 kjv
Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul delighteth; I have put my spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles.
And why jesus fuffilled 'the servant' word for word according to the vision isaiah saw and recorded above in isaiah 42:1

Mathew 12:18 kjv
Behold my servant, whom I have chosen; my beloved, in whom my soul is well pleased: I will put my spirit upon him, and he shall shew judgment to the Gentiles.

are you saying that God is calling himself 'my servant' in anticipation before he obtain that human body and why did he not refer to ''my chosen; my beloved that shall shew judgment to the Gentiles. as God the son? but my servant?

note again further assurrance from the God and father to his servant jesus before he came to the earth;


isaiah 42:6

I the LORD have called you in righteousness, and will hold your hand, and will keep you, and give you for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles;

your response is needed here sir

The Nation did Not carry this News

Saraki never have any fear to enter the Dock like Tinubu who cannot even smile

see saraki All smiles with Dance right in the dock beacause the Appeal court will vindicate him soon, and before the judjement of appeal court, no continuation of trial in the cct. see the man all smiles Admire him pls https://www.nairaland.com/2682353/saraki-not-afraid-enter-dock

On this thread below

https://www.nairaland.com/2681772/lawyer-begs-saraki-enter-dock

The thread Misleads the public to believe that saraki was afraid of entering the Dock, 'Afraid' it the OP's discretion means that saraki waiting for an order to enter the dock which must be communicated to him by his counsel 'on whose instruction he(saraki relied) onas a guide now was misinterpreted to mean that saraki was afraid and funny enough, it made it to the FP

So judge for yourself is this man below afraid?

Boomark:
I don't want to waste time on you because you started in error. May be all you know are errors. So you need to start afresh, I mean, start by receiving Christ again and desiring to know him well by studying honestly.

Number 1, dishonesty always come in answering questions not in the asking. There is always an answer to every right or wrong question. It is only when one does not have answers or is confused by a question that one will start thinking a simple question is dishonest. How can? Smh for u small.

Now
"'Behold, I send My messenge, and he will prepare the way before Me.(Read Mt 11:10 for better understanding) And the Lord, whom you seek, will suddenly come to His temple, even the Messenger of the covenant, in whom you delight (after clearing the way, the Lord..., even the messenger of the new covenant is not John). Behold, He is coming,' says the LORD of hosts" ( Malachi 3:1). (the Is what Jehovah has said)

You FAILED again with your definition of Delusion, I wonder if it is what they taught you in school Besides your definition of delusion(no matter how sweet or chocolatey you want to make it look) is not the answer to my question. I asked a straightforward question. If you don't know it, say 'no idea.'

@ boomark, how are you, the comment you quoted and replied has been removed from the original post by the Mods, as it violates a nairaland rule, so you can continue your meaninful contribution on the thread, i seem to be very busy but will be back on the thread.

Bad news for sahara reporters as their journalist left cct court room in shame

MuttleyLaff:
Though I first said, suit yourself, but actuaaly hoped you'd obliged, as your feedback, possibly would have led to giving you something to really worry a bit about


I said: Why not?
Is it impossible for God to pull something like this off? Yes and No!

Am still waiting for responses to this

@ MuttleyLaff:

sorry i could nt continue, but i will be back, i was too busy for now but expect my reply soon, thanks.

saraki was like,

http://www.77evenbusiness.com/go-and-relax-code-of-conduct-tribunal-adjourns-sarakis-trial-to-november-5/
The Code of Conduct Tribunal (CCT) has postponed the sitting for the trial of Senate President, Bukola Saraki, regarding the 13-count false asset declaration charge against him.

Nigerain Eye gathered that the chairman of the Code of Conduct Tribunal, Danladi Umar asked the Senate President, Bukola Saraki, to “go and relax” as he adjourned his (Saraki) trial to November 5 and 6.

He took the decision after listening to Saraki’s lawyer, Joseph Daodu and government lawyer, Rotimi Jacobs, both senior advocates, on the pending case at the Court of Appeal. Judgement was slated to be delivered on Tuesday, but was postponed indefinitely.

Daodu had raised the issue of the appeal, after the Tribunal Chairman ordered Saraki to enter the dock.

He was supported by government lawyer, Rotimi Jacobs, who also informed the tribunal of the case at the Court of Appeal, saying the appellate court which heard the case for 10 days said judgement was not ready.

Jacobs said there is need for the Tribunal to respect the Court of Appeal and halt proceedings. He added that the appeal court may deliver its judgement in the next one week.

He asked the Tribunal to adjourn proceedings for two weeks, so as not to disrespect the higher court.
Jacobs said he has his witnesses were ready to proceed if the Chairman of the Tribunal ruled otherwise.

Saraki’s lawyer supported the argument. But he asked the Tribunal to adjourn indefinitely since there is no assurance of when the Appeal Court will deliver its judgement.

Daodu lawyer said the tribunal should take the fact that the defendant is a Senate President and he is at present handling an important national assignment at the National Assembly

johnw74:
bad spirited berni, going even to others posts to flame

i believe theres plenty of flames waiting for you

Back to sender i reject it joor shaarababababa Any weapon formed against my thread shall not prosper, they shall scather by fire ah dont let me be angry o, ti mo ba binu haaaah go and sleep man, you are on the wrong thread

MuttleyLaff:
Maybe if you explain what a liberal Trinitarian is
and what a liberal Trinitarian is about, I might be able to confirm whether you're correct or not that am a liberal Trinitarian

Dont worry again i have gotten what i need and enjoying the conversation steady. in fact i am learning!

What were you expectin?.
Were you expecting God to bend the protocol or rules with some abracadabra?...........

You dont need further explanation other than, God, an Invisible being, is a Spirit.

So when Jesus Died for Good three days, even at Death in those three days he is still God! yes or No!

This is how serious this is, even, God, Himself abided by this decree
and didnt make Himself an exception to it
God obtained a body in the person of Jesus, God the Son, to legally operate on earth

wow,

This statement above just convinced me to believe that you are a liberal Trinitarian, am i correct?

God obtain a body, in another person (of jesus) so as to operate on earth

i need more explanations

MuttleyLaff:
I hear you, loud and clear

Hmm

Haba Chief, you can't have your cake and eat it (too)
Wetin be ''i think both ''is'' and ''was''?''

It's either satan is a celestial being and due to the limitations of human beings' vision, is invisible to human beings' korokoro eyes
and satan, as up to now, remains still being a celestial being and invisible
(i.e. satan had not for a fraction of a second, EVER stopped to be a celestial being or at any time stopped being invisible to human beings)

No one, no human being, bible recorded or not, has ever seen satan before,
so what's with ''i think both (''is'' and ''was'') in my own context''?
What's that all about?

ok, satan ''is'' a celestial being, are you ok with that now
But you know that satan Has no place among other celestials in heaven anymore! he has already fall out of Gods arrangements.

Rev 12:8 and 9

8 but they (Devil and his angels) did not prevail, nor was a place found for them in heaven any longer. 9 So the great dragon was cast out, that serpent of old, called the Devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was cast to the earth, and his angels were cast out with him

MuttleyLaff:
johnw74 knows what he is doing,
the jw name calling is a cunning plan designed to turn the state of affairs to his own advantage

Every time jw is typed, regardless of you saying you arent jw, it's used try to drown you out or done to try and emasculate you

lets leave the guy out before he attacks you so that we can have a meaningful discussion, He is reduced to one Dimensional

Is the bold meant to be a past tense (i.e. ''was'') or present tense (i.e. ''is'')?

i think both(''is'' and ''was'') in my own context fits the fact that satan still remains celestial and invincible!

Tjayjosh:
You asked two questions. The answer is Yes for both. Trying to understand the scriptures deductively, may never give you the answers you truly need. "You may frequently be like a blind man grooming in a dark room for a black cat which is not there". Most words as used in the Bible are metaphorical in nature. As you cannot seperate fish from water, you cannot seperate metaphor with the writen word of God. And the disciples came and said unto him, why speakest thou unto them in parables? He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mystries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given (Matthew 13:10-11). Many therefore of his disciples, when they had heard this, said this is an hard saying; who can understand it? When jesus knew in himself that his disciples murmured at it, he said unto them, Doth this offend you? What if ye shall see the son of man ascend up where he was before? It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that i speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life. You need the spirit of God in you before you can fully understand and interpret His word. prophecy in Ezekiel 28:11-19 talked about the king of tyre. However, some of the descriptions in this bible passage go beyond any mere human king. In no sense could an earthly
king claim to be “in Eden” or to be “the anointed cherub who
covers” or to be “on the holy mountain of God.” Ezekiel 28:11–19 is a dual
prophecy, comparing the pride of the king of Tyre to the pride of
Satan as described in Isaiah 14:12-14. This exceptional long prophecy against Tyre shows a veiled description of satan (28:11-19) as the real power behind the king of Tyre. Satan was not directly called an angel in the bible.

The bolded is honest answer that i need from you! as you did not shy away from expressing your understanding in a logical way

For what we know, he was called "a cherub."

Again satan was not directly called a cherub! it was lucifer that was called 'a cherub' and the missing link here is that 'lucifer was never called satan' but then you arrived at that conclusion in your own logical way or through a secondary 'evidence of proof' or opinion below ..that;

Tjayjosh:
However, some of the descriptions in this bible passage go beyond any mere human king. In no sense could an earthly
king claim to be “in Eden” or to be “the anointed cherub who
covers” or to be “on the holy mountain of God.”

Your opinion above seem to be in conflict with what you said about 'a cherub' and the 'Garden of Eden'
Gen 3:24 shows that we have more than one cherub(Cherubims) who also were at the Eden; and these cherubims were sent by God himself

Genesis 3:24 KJV
So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.

can you give further explanations to butress your point beyond reasonable doubt? that lucifer was which of the cherub in Eden? even though we had more than one Cherub in Eden! thanks

johnw74:
yeah i spelt a word wrong, i must have bad concentration, duh

Thats the effect of getting yourself annoyed unduly, i dont know your age but you still behave like someone not matured to handle issues in a matured way.

you posted to me
not i to you
like jmaho5 you stuck your nose in where it wasn't wanted
they are wrong as you are

where did i post to you? is it on this thread? i think you should go back to page 0, you were the very first person to quote my p[ost and comment.

you and they have rejected scriptures i have posted
am i going to post them again to show you, no
go back and look for them.

which scripture? the scripture you posted did not prove anything, i have treated it in my coded post (A#1) you were afraid to show further proofs when the ones you relied on in the passage failed to adress the issue

here was my reply because it seems you want us to go round the tables thats why i coded my replies post (A#1)

below are all the contents of bible verses that you quoted which all failed to call satan an angel!



Ezekiel 28:13,14 and 15

13 Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.

14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.

15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.

17 Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee.

Ephesians 3:9King James Version (KJV)

9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:


Psalm 99:1King James Version (KJV)

The Lord reigneth; let the people tremble: he sitteth between the cherubims; let the earth be moved.

Isaiah 14:13King James Version (KJV)

13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north

Revelation 12:3,4,7-9
3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.

4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.

7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,

8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.

9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.


your reply Fail to address (A)in the very Topic, that is; lets see the scriptures you quoted in your juxtapose,

a, Ezekiel 28:13, 15
b, Ezekiel 28:14
c, Ephesians 3:9
d, Psalms 99:1
e, Isaiah 14:13, 14.
f, John 8:44

g, Revelation 12:3,4
h Revelation 12:7-9

a-f .....did not mention that Lucifer was Satan while;
'g' and 'H' ...did not Mention lucifer at all among names that satan was called in 'h' neither was satan called an angel in the passage
so your proof lacks the substance that is.... to prove where the bible/sacred scriptures DIRECTLY says that satan is/was an angel

MuttleyLaff:
I had previously gone through almost all your threads/posts if not all, and already came to realise you're in the ''Satan was an angel'' camp

Thats how I got to quote part of your previous thread which is relevant to this present one

Trinity or trinitarians, ah, a topic not good for the faint-hearted and/or religious bigot

I want to thank you too, as you come across as level-headed.
Your postings are calm and sensible, you seem not afraid to get your feet wet feet,
nor dont mind delving further into deep waters,
I dont know why you dont mind the deep end,
maybe its because you know how to swim out or maybe it's due to the life-jacket you've strapped on

Thank you sir, i just realised that the time we put on arguments at times may worth it and at times not even worth it, Trinity issue will continue till the God knows when, because its a mind set, most of the believers are not ready to come out of their comfort zone(what they are persuaded to believe) and honestly test their convinction because of fear of failure so they hung to their 'untested beliefs' with a 'made up mind' yet they get irritated when you prove your own convinction. thats just the case of one john74 on this thread who never knew me from adam and yet not interested in my topic yet calling me names its funny anyway because since he has got no proof tangible i dont think i will have his time.

Anyway like i said i am open to new ideas.

Let start with this first,
do you agree that, first and foremost, satan is a celestial being

Satan, before angel or Arch-angel (i.e. which a step above an angel) comes into the picture, fundamentally, is an invisible being.

Of course yes, i agree that satan was a celestial beign and invincible beign.

Secondly, its vital to agree that, not all celestial beings or invisible beings are angels, however all angels are celestial or invisible beings
Some celestial or invisible beings are stationed or have offices and dont go on errands
Some celestial or invisible beings, are stationed or have offices and combinedly, do go on errands

i agree with that, expecially those reffered to as the 24 elders

johnw74:
If you are going to come back with a long study for me
don't waste your time, I won't read it

I know satan is an [size=14pt]angle
[/size]
I know Jesus Christ is not an Angel

I don't care what you think on it
or what jw pharacees think

so satan is an angle, angle 90' 180' or 360'? see what fight is doing to your concentration, while it will be on record that i have never insulted you. neither was i part of the jw people you have issues with.

you dont care what i think but you want me to care about what you think!
you still dont get it, i dont need to beg you with what i believe, i only responded because you 'came on my thread' only to realise that you had already concluded in your mind to fight whoever tried to ask of proof that satan was an angel.

john74 you are NOT fair to me at all, are you saying that i dont have the right to my own opinion? when you have your own right?

its very funny anyway.

Tjayjosh:
What are cherubs/seraphs, are they angels?

did the bible says that satan was a cherub? show me word for word
did the bible say that satan was an angel word for word show me.

johnw74:
I don't agree with you, and I'm not really too interisted in whether satan was an angel or not,
I know that he was.

Then you are on the wrong thread! you knew satan was an Angel but was too shy to prove it here so that others can gain, maybe you have just realised that your proof is very weak.

Again The TOPIC...Re: (A)Was Satan By Default An Angel? (B)Prove It If You Think Jesus Never Exist As Angel

your reply Fail to address (A)in the very Topic, because you have no proof at all yet you want me to swallow your juxtapose that does not mention lucifer as satan wholesale, can you see your mistake? and instead of you to adress that you are diverting insults meant for jw to the wrong person(myself) maybe to evade the answer that you can present

For more on that look back at my posts.

Again your post contain no mention of 1, lucifer as satan 2,or satan as angel and funny enough its not even your work, you copied and paste another person's defective work as mutleylaff exposed. you are yet to prove anything

i am still waiting for you to adress the (a) part of the topic.

truthislight:
^^^^

The thread is demanding where a clear reference was made that Satan is an Angel and not based on deductions of facts and evidence.

The OP is not saying that he denies or does not know the evidences available showing that Satan was an Angel, but he is showing that there is no direct reference to Satan as such in the Bible, but rather, from deductions only, that conclusion can be drawn that Satan was an Angel.

Samething with Jesus being referred to as an Angel. No direct reference.

If it is wrong for such deductions to be made for Jesus, why is such deductions allowed for Satan ?? ?? ??.

i think you should let please let me be responsible for my statement and if you can allow me to respond directly at john74 and stop insulting each other for now, i dont really have the time but will treat the issue well.

TOPIC...Re: (A)Was Satan By Default An Angel? (B)Prove It If You Think Jesus Never Exist As Angel

your reply Fail to address (A)in the very Topic, that is; lets see the scriptures you quoted in your juxtapose,

a, Ezekiel 28:13, 15
b, Ezekiel 28:14
c, Ephesians 3:9
d, Psalms 99:1
e, Isaiah 14:13, 14.
f, John 8:44

g, Revelation 12:3,4
h Revelation 12:7-9

a-f .....did not mention that Lucifer was Satan while;
'g' and 'H' ...did not Mention lucifer at all among names that satan was called in 'h' neither was satan called an angel in the passage
so your proof lacks the substance that is.... to prove where the bible/sacred scriptures DIRECTLY says that satan is/was an angel

post coded [size=14pt]A(#2)[/size]

johnw74:
That leave me out, I will never respect jw satanic, sectarian beliefs.

who told you that i am a jehovahs witness? if i may ask you, i dont go to any church i practice my faith alone. i am not one of jehovahs witness and i think that you should have ask me earlier. i know nothing about watchtower and so spare me that attack.

i am still in surprise that despite the fact that this i have not engaged you in any serious discussion you are directing wrong accusation on me without confirming who i am. i give you the benefit of doubt and expect your apology for your action anyway.

you even call me a devil when i have not even offended you i think you need to watch it,

but another truth is that watchtower wrongly taught that God in the beginning created two Angels, Michael and lucifer, and Michael created all else
and now BERNIMOORE is arguing against watchtower in his quest for satan not being an angel.


jw is wrong and they change a wrong for another wrong
that's what the wrong spirit does to you

Joh_8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

friend, i think you have wronged me and its just very funny. Mutleylaff left this thread satisfied with my explanations, he was never a jw neither was i, but he believed that jesus was an arch angel who run errands for God. you dont need to agree with me or allign me with watchtower for God sake.
i repeat i am not a jw and if you continue your attack on my thread i will be out of here, and willbe back later.

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@johnw74

I could nt reply you within the week, but was only able to respond to Muttleylaf, i read every post and was moved to reply thus;
1, That in our(myself and you john74) course of discussion on this thread, shall aknowledge and accord respect to our individual beliefs, particularly ...My fundamentals of Human right under the Nigerian constitution as a citizen of Nigeria which granted me ;the freedom of personal liberty expecially of in the area of 'choice' of what i chose to believe ...is my personal right and should be respected vis a vis. which hereinafter means that it will be wrong to force a concept on me outside my submissions or insinuate that i was forced to believe anything. so i want to state expressly in affirmation that; i chose to believe some bible concept based on strong proofs that appealed to me personally, and i am still open to new ideas and responsible for anything i believe.
And i will not force you to believe my concept as you dont need to agree with my personal assertions everybody to his her own opinion, but rather to prove your concepts or belief with strong evidences to compare and show the strongest of proofs in a particular topic of which i have the right to make a reply, but then you and i are free to held on to our different opinions without derailing the thread.

2, That the Topic the OP is all about is to prove where the bible/sacred scriptures DIRECTLY says that satan is an angel WITHOUT 'juxtaposing scriptural verses but rather a single verse that says that ''satan is/was an Angel

your reply Fail to address that; lets see the scriptures you quoted in your juxtapose,

a, Ezekiel 28:13, 15
b, Ezekiel 28:14
c, Ephesians 3:9
d, Psalms 99:1
e, Isaiah 14:13, 14.
f, John 8:44

g, Revelation 12:3,4
h Revelation 12:7-9

a-f .....did not mention that Lucifer was Satan while;
'g' and 'H' ...did not Mention lucifer at all among names that satan was called in 'h' neither was satan called an angel in the passage
so your proof lacks the substance that is.... to prove where the bible/sacred scriptures DIRECTLY says that satan is/was an angel

johnw74:
Where in the Bible does it say Satan was once a glorious angel in Heaven?

“Thou wast created.” Ezekiel 28:13, 15. “Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth.” Ezekiel 28:14. “Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty … every precious stone was thy covering … the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created. … Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.” Ezekiel 28:12-15.

Lucifer was created by God, as were all the other angels (Ephesians 3:9). Lucifer was a “covering” cherub. There was one great angel that stands on the left side of God’s throne and another on the right (Psalms 99:1). Lucifer was one of those highly exalted angel leaders. His beauty was flawless and breathtaking. His wisdom was perfect. His brightness was awe-inspiring. Ezekiel 28:13 seems to indicate that his throat was specially prepared to make him an outstanding musician.

But pride, jealousy, discontent, and self-exaltation arose in his heart. And he decided to attempt to unseat God and then demand that all worship him.”Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness.” Ezekiel 28:17. “For thou hast said in thine heart, … I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: … I will be like the most High.” Isaiah 14:13, 14.

Then, “there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven. And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.” Revelation 12:7-9.

Lucifer won the support of one-third of the angels (Revelation 12:3, 4) and caused an insurrection in heaven. God had no choice but to oust Lucifer and his followers. This was the greatest battle, by far, ever fought. Lucifer’s aim was to usurp God’s throne, even if it might eventually lead to murder (John 8:44). After his expulsion from heaven, Lucifer was called Satan (adversary) and devil (slanderer), and his angels were called demons.

http://proof.directory/where-in-the-bible-does-it-say-satan-was-once-a-glorious-angel-in-heaven/

below are all the contents of bible verses that you quoted which all failed to call satan an angel!



Ezekiel 28:13,14 and 15

13 Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.

14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.

15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.

17 Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee.

Ephesians 3:9King James Version (KJV)

9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:


Psalm 99:1King James Version (KJV)

The Lord reigneth; let the people tremble: he sitteth between the cherubims; let the earth be moved.

Isaiah 14:13King James Version (KJV)

13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north

Revelation 12:3,4,7-9
3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.

4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.

7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,

8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.

9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

MuttleyLaff:
In this context and in Jesus' capacity where it applies, Jesus would have to be an Arch-Angel
I am aware of Revelation 22:16, hence the ''in this context and in Jesus' capacity where it applies...'' caveat emptor

The sentence above (in bold) is where i am driving my argument to, i decided to put the thread in a way that it will draw answers in a practical and comparable way, you think i dont know that satan was an angel?of course you rightly quoted part of it, or that jesus was also an arch angel that run errands for God while some angels are under his control, some of my works in 2012 dealt with that. the thread was directed to the trinitarians that i have engaged before like OLAADEGBU and co.

i want to thank you for your sincerity since i discovered that we both agree on some of these issues, but there are areas we will still need to reconcile

1, satan as an Arch angel
2, Jesus The Almighty God same as his father

Those who finds Fayose's word to digest should read the summsrry in bold below

slimtee101:
“[size=18pt]I have consistently asked them why they have closed their eyes to the corruption allegations against their own people. Why is their attention only on people from the Southern part[/size] of Nigeria? ......Fayose

1, Farouk Lawan Admitted To collect 620.000 Dollars bribe but because he is a fulani No case!
2, Salisu Buhari has a criminal case for forging a certificate of Toronto university to become the speaker of the house of representatives a crime that warants extradiction but since the North can manage their own crime, they use the literates southerners to expose theirselves and delivered them for prosecution in order to actualise the born to rule concept,

Asiwaju Awon Ole (leader of thieves), Bola Ahmed Tinubu Bought our own Yoruba so called leaders and shut them up when needed, shamefully people like Soyinka and Femi Falana held in high esteem are not even worth it, yes they dont..soyinka who just resigned as Black heritage cultire chaiman an illegal position used to shut soyinka up after beign ridiculed by the rightful owner Olagunsoye oyinlola, and Femi Falana whom Tinubu promised Attorney General and justice Minister which never be, and people like Ayo Opadokun, and lateef jakande's mouth are shut down till further notice o maa se ooo.

Fayose a role Model of the revolutionalised yoruba youths says it all. ''why they have closed their eyes to the corruption allegations against their own people. Why is their attention only on people from the Southern part''

bolded below in your response Affirm my point Already;

MuttleyLaff:
No thanks to whoever ''bumped'' (i.e. Bring-Up-My-Post) this 2 year old dead post

Not that there isnt any verse to show satan was directly called an angel, as there are verse(s)
but hypothetically speaking, just because there’s a lack of verse showing satan was directly called an angel
doesn’t mean, it isn’t true satan was an angel
(i.e. a malaika in Hebrew/Arabic, angelos in Greek, a messenger, effectively a celestial being sent to errand(s))

Satan is now an ex-Archangel because satan since after the botched coup detat no longer runs errands or messages for God
Satan ''upgraded''. Satan now has own angels, confirmed in 2 Corinthians 12:7

Satan, like all other invisible beings, are first created as celestial beings before becoming angels
When angels or an Archangel vacates the post or office,
they no longer are angels of God or an Archangel of God
but now become angels of whom they have allegiance to or become an adversary of God

The question again is 'did bible directly call satan an arch-Angel? No! you want us to believe that because satan has angels 'followers' means that he is an arch-Angel, hence

[s]Lest I be lifted up by the abundance of revelations, a thorn for my flesh was handed over to me,
an Angel of Satan to buffet me, lest I be lifted up.
- 2 Corinthians 12:7[/s]

Using same analogy (strictly)

Revelation 22:16
"I, Jesus, have sent My angel to testify to you these things.....

Que(3)Can we conclude that jesus was an Arch-Angel?

DRUM ROLL:
and here is THE COVETED verse you're so much after

lets see the verse;

And no wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light.
- 2 Corinthians 11:14

(NIV) 14 And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light

Another Translation used 'masquerades as an angel' so when you 'disguise' or 'masquerades' as a lion you are already a lion in 'essence' get a life my brother that verse does more damage to your strawman's claim you already have a drum rolling, i guess you have to stop dancing now due to the expose
if you still doubt that the verse does not support your notion Notice the parallel the writer was trying to strike by comparing verses 13 the preceeding verse with verse 14 that you quoted

13 For such men are false apostles, deceitful workers, disguising Themselves as apostles of Christ.
14 And no wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light.

Now be the judge, after reading the below which was posted two months or so after the original,
if ''Angel is a task not a different form/nature but apply to both human and spirit sons of God''
why Satan cant or wasnt an angel of God?
- you should recognise or be familiar with the below and remember who wrote it

My answer to you querry above will depend on the outcome of your response to Que 3 that is;
Que(3)Can we conclude that jesus was an Arch-Angel? Using same analogy in 2 Corinthians 12:7.