₦airaland Forum

netotse:
if that alone is considered, you're 100% right. . .if there was a way to achieve that without having to carry domestic and commercial load, i'd agree with you totally but as it stands today, it isn't possible and i think in this case, it's left to the investor that want to access the funds to make it work. . .

I think since the distribution network more easily defined geographically, it shoudnt be too difficult to isolate the distribution network for the industrial areas/parks. Irrespective of power plant siting, the local distribution network for this target areas will have to be reviewed. The transmission network is what I am more concerned with. I feel We should upgrade the transmission network to ensure cost effectiveness in generation and delivery,while keeping in mind future plans. We should noyt build expensive ad hoc networks that would increase short term cost, and then be abandoned on the long run.

i'll be going to PHCN HQ sometime next week, i'll try and find out the cost per-unit-lenth for txn networks.

Hope you are not going just to ask four your share of the new CBN disbursements?  
Tommorow now, we go hear say u don get  GenCo  

i dont agree with your overbudgeting thingy on hydro o. . .cos they have hydrologists at hydro stations and you monitor the rainfall of the area for close to 8yrs at least before siting a hydro station there, it's all about planning and economic dispatch really.

If you capacitive is not excessive in the raining season, it will be short in the dry season. the seasonality of the water levels as opposed to tyhe more consistent power demands makes it that you cannot eat your cake and have it.

i'm guessing including the northen sites was mainly for political correctness and ish though

Such considerations are required to avoid unnecessary political tension. Surprisingly, PHC (already with AFAM) is the only south-south location. I would have expected something around delta/baylesa areas and something in the midwest also. Without a capable transmission network to spread the power around, you might indeed endup with the grumblings that easily follow such projects in Nigeria.

Avenir:
I agree that transportation will always be a big problem in the north since in any event you have to transport whatever fossil fuel (gas, coal, etc) from the south to the north. But there are several viable hydro sites in the north. They don’t have to run on fossil fuel for the north.

Ofcourse you don't have to look outside fossil fuel for the south and there are many types. Over 60% of world generators are coal powered. You can enter into purchase agreements to guarantee your supply. Gas fired generators would have been the cheapest for Nigeria due to abundant sources of natural gas. However the current problems in Niger delta will not encourage anybody to invest in gas pipeline business.

The core of the discussion is on if we need immediate investment into the transmission and distribution networks. The description given in the article seems to focus on localized power generation which I feel will be cost inefficient as ooposed to optimal siting of the power station (based on fuel/energy sources and transmission network). Having a city supplied by an hydro station (or any other underterministic source) off grid will expose such cities to either over budgeting at times of source abundance and/or under-supplied in times of dearth (like dry season for hydro stations).
With out using the  grid, it becomes chop alone die alone

Beaf:
Who are the "all"? You and your cheap association of tribalistic LOSER'S?

so everyone that has read that particular post are now 'tribalistic losers'. You have definitely lost it upstairs and gone off the deep the end

Beaf:
Ok. So I should have praised Yar Adua for competence? Sorry, Yar Adua was fuc'king incompetent. You just want me to worship because he is not an [size=14pt]"undeserving Southerner".[/size]

NL bully, I refuse worship, instead; I hail Jonathan! Make e pain you well well! Ode.

Cheap, tribalistic LOSER!

Yar'adua was competent enough to have led the NNPC reforms for 2yrs, but then you would claim ignorance of this.
It is ever satisfying when one exposes ethnic bigots like yourself  for what you truly are.

Beaf:
You created this issue for your own ulterior, tribalistic motives, I already creditted Yar Adua here https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-406672.0.html#msg5621527
You came on here nitpicking and calling people "undeserving Southerners"; all because I said "I loff Jonathan".
You're sick man!

Cheap, tribalistic LOSER!

We have all read your purported credit to yar'adua in which you described him as 'never been able to even get it going'.  Interesting choice of words for 'praise', when a simple declarative statement would have sufficed.

I do credit your consistent efforts at trying to drag the discourse off road. Grabbing at straws is an hopeless endeavor.

Beaf:
I gave credit earlier on, but you feel I should kneel and worship (apparently, because Yar Adua is not an [size=14pt]"undeserving Southerner"[/size]).

Cheap, tribalistic loser!

you mean when you said

Beaf: I cannot help but lof Jonathan. This indeed what NNPC ad Nigeria needs. Over the years NNPC has been a wide open conduit for the brazen theft of our money - straight out of the oil wells into foreign accounts.

. . .Next kick out the twin vultures, Barkindo and Rilwan Lukman. Cool Cool Cool

or

Beaf: @topic
What Jonathan is proposing for the NNPC is the right thing. The NNPC has been run as a looting corporation. Its equivalents in other countries (even those without oil) are building refineries all over the World; they are properly organised, money spinning ventures.

Your only mention of yar'adua was only in a veiled attempt accusing him of incompetence.

Beaf:
Stop dodging, fuc'king tribalist. You have enough command of English not fool anyone by pretending not to understand the exact meaning of what you said.
You meant, Jonathan or any Southerner does not deserve to rule this country.

Cheap tribalistic LOSER!

Seems you have now become delusional At what point did this become an issue of Jonathan deserving to rule the country. Its is funny how you are so sure you know what I meant, even after I have clarified otherwise. Your are either paranoid or suffering from self guilt. (un)fortunately, I have no intention of following you on your deranged expedition.

The issue at hand is simple and clear: Yar'adua, and not jonathan, deserves credit for the NNPC reforms.

Beaf:
. . .Similar to the dysfunction your brain is now going through.

You have unmasked yourself as a tribalist. Your mental state is why you think you have the right bully others. Loser!

Increased font size will nont make your post any more credible.
You can accuse me of being a tribalism all night long, but the truth is there for all to see.
Yar'adua deserves the credit for the NNPC reform and not Jonathan. Give credit (or criticism) where it is due and not try to arrogate the good works of others for your preferred candidate.

Beaf:
Clown. Why is Jonathan an "undeserving southerner"?[
Tell me who the tribalist is now? You are as mad as Tanko Yakasai. NL bully.

because he hasnt done anything as per the reform to deserve any credit or as he?
do you feel we should credit him for not doing something wrong?

Beaf:
I already did that here https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-406672.0.html#msg5621527.
biina is just a shameless loser with ulterior motives.

Beaf:
Thanks for that. Akanbi didn't need to go the gutter route (like OBJ) to make his point.
I am 100% aware that Yar Adua started the idea, but he has never been able to even get it going. It has been the same story all through with other projects, that is why he earned the nickname, "baba go slow".

So classifying Yar'adua's efforts as 'never been able to even get it going', like the topic was erectile dysfunction, is your idea of giving due credit?
If you want to credit it as he deserves, you should say so genuinely and unequivocally, not  take some cheap shot at the guy.

netotse:
those are the industrial nerve centres of nigeria now, geometric power(barth nnaji) is doing something in aba and from the gist i hear, things are moving fast there (he's prolly the only serious IPP sef). . .

i think you're looking at this in terms of nigeria as a whole, not in terms of the nigerian economy, the question to ask is, would it be cheaper than using generators? and would both the investor and the industries being supplied profit from the arrangement? while i dont know the numbers that were/are being crunched, i think it would be a worthwhile venture. . .besides, the transportation problem you're talking about is principally for the north, and that's if gas is the fuel, i dont think the type of stations to be built were specified.

The transportation issue is not a northern one alone, as it is a case of per-unit-length costs. Outside of fossil fuels and nuclear, I cannot think of any other power generation scheme that is not seasonal, irregular and/or situational. I dont think the government has granted approval to build nuclear stations.

The problem of the Nigerian economy is one of Nigeria as a whole, and the core issue is the cheapest way to deliver power to these cities/regions, while at the same time keeping an eye on future plans and scalability. I dont think isolated siting in the above locations is optimal, as opposed to having the fossil fuel units in the south and complementing them with the undeterministic sources in other regions. The latter solution requires a serviceable transmission network.

Beaf:
Infantile.

Go and die! I choose to credit Jonathan, because I wish to.
You are really the one who is tribalisic. How else can you feel that anybody hailing Jonathan must be Ijaw? . . .So tiny minded, did you breastfeed?

It seems you lack comprehension skills. At what point did ethnic bigotry apply to only people of the same tribe or do you not know the meaning of ethnic bigotry? 

Your failure to provide a valid reason for deliberately crediting the good works of a northerner to an undeserving southerner from your geo-political zone can only lead to the logical conclusion that your actions were borne out of ethnic bias against the northerner and/or unabashed sycophancy to your region.

Beaf:
Abeg go and rest jare! There is no point in being dishonest and hanging like a coward unto the foolish, gutter arguments of another person.
I credit Jonathan, oya go and die!

You people are beginning to sound as mad as Tanko Yakasai.

Unable to offer a counter argument, you reverted to your true self, slinging personal insults.
Jonathan has done nothing commendable yet, and until he does so, the credit for the NNPC reform goes to Umaru 'the living dead' Yar'adua
Make u carry your ethnic bigotry and propaganda waka comot, make better people see road pass.

netotse:
thats why i used the term captive generation, the industrial parks or whatever they're called will be turned into islands, so they wont be tied to the national grid(although there are ways to tie them in in such a way as to feed the excess power). . .prioritizing some states and regions is what we have on ground already,more importantly and since this is aimed at improving the economy, the 'masses' are not really important in the sense you're considering, what the CBN wants is to encourage industries i.e. create more jobs, you having light at home doesn't create more jobs


as per the idea you mooted, our distribution and transmission networks are already in a sorry state, cos for a while there has been little or no work done on them, most of the work has been on constructing new generating stations(although i admit a few new txn stations have been built), the networks are already overloaded in a lot of places(both on the transmission and distribution side) so i think it would be better for the private investors to concentrate on the OPS where they have a better chance of recouping their investments.

P.S. if they cater to the industries, in a sense it will increase the MW's available for non-industrial use. . .

Did you observe the proposed sites? Lagos, Kano, Onitsha, Nnewi, Port Harcourt, Aba, Funtua/Gusua/Malunfashi/Zaria, Lokoja and Maiduguri/Gombe/Bauchi.
Maybe I am missing something, but I dont see how it would be cost effective to site the stations in those areas and now transport the fuels to them. I dont think gas pipelines will be more cost effective than upgrading transmission system.

Fhemmmy:
Solving the power generation in Nigeria dont need any super natural being help.
We dont have to invent anything, all that is needed are already on the shelf.
We just need proper way to take care of it and make it happen

While the problem of the power sector does not require super natural abilities, it would take more than 'common sense' and money to solve.
There is a huge difference between the solution to a problem being straightforward and being trivial. The power sector problem in Nigeria is straightforward (if you know your onions) but is far from being trivial, and it would be a major misconception to trivialize it.

netotse:
actually, his idea makes more sense. . .cos if the funds are used entirely for captive generation then the companies will be able to charge the customers properly, and it will also benefit the economy much more this way.

charge which customers - the DisCos? We cant afford to address the issue serially, rather all phases should be tackled in parallel, even if it means prioritizing some states and/or regions i.e. put the money where it would have the most impact. Example I would take regular supply to the designated industrial areas above wasted capacity.

One factor that is worth considering (and am not sure if it is true) is if implementation time is lower for transmission and distribution, meaning they can lag generation in initiation.

ziddy:
Sanusi is a brilliant man. He also obviously has plans for Nigeria. He is taking the initiative away from the Executive arm of Government on this.

Adequate power generation has been one of his favoured areas from which to jump-start the economy. Remember when he attacked the Seven-point agenda.

Hope he knows distribution is also a problem sha.

I wouldn't get my hopes high. He is an a economist and banker, and can likely not see clearly beyond the financial/funding angle to the problem. His technical direction will likely be borne of the utterances of people who should know better like the minister of powe.
It is the minister of power that should seize the initiative to make sure that the funds made available indirectly by the CBN are directed to the right areas, and used to provide solutions to problems, but then the a guy who thinks power is measured in 'MW per day' wouldnt know much about that. When a person is unqualified, competence is a moot point.

Beaf:
Thanks for that. Akanbi didn't need to go the gutter route (like OBJ) to make his point.
I am 100% aware that Yar Adua started the idea, but he has never been able to even get it going. It has been the same story all through with other projects, that is why he earned the nickname, "baba go slow".

So who formed the OGIC that submitted the draft bill? 
In fact what has jonathan done (besides continuing from where Yar'adua left off) that makes him derserving of any credit on the process?
It is obvious that, for subjective reasons, you are finding it difficult to credit Yar'adua for his effort, and would rather appropriate it to Jonathan. This is why Akanbi accused you of being  motivated by ethnic bias.

netotse:
now every tom d1ck and harry will want to build a power station. . .lol

I dont see the problem as long as the banks can be held honest,to ensure that the low interest loans are injected into the sector. I would have only liked the investments to include the transmission and distribution segments as well.

naijaking1:
This type of question makes me wonder where you have been. Please read many other Nigerian newspapers, not just Dailytrust. Soon, you will ask for evidence to show that Sanusi fired bank CEOs?

If a position/statement is in dispute, the right thing to do is provide evidence to back up your claims, but seems you would rather we take your word (or the words of your comrades) for it.
If you dont have anything to backup the position, simply say so or dont say anything at all, instead you are making ad hominem comments.

Now, you're comparing apples with oranges. Why compare thieves with enterpreneurs?
You still haven't understood the basic terminology used to convict ENRON operatives, and you continue to display your ignorance shamelessly. Nobody goes to jail for poor morality, that action also must have broken some legal codes to be actionable.

'entrepreneurs'! The sacked executives were thieves.

When you're done reading your koran up-side-down maybe you'll understand my point

If you don't know how this morality argment started, please go back a few pages. Just like Sanusi, you contradict yourself every step of the way

You should take heed to your own advice.

Fhemmmy:
Another one for us to watch.

BTW . . . .Since when do the CBN has to make such announcement?

Since we have had a governor that encourages transparency. Nigeria would be better off if the people were similarly informed by other arms of the govt and parastatals.