₦airaland Forum

Moneywomen17:
don’t know who u are but is seems u are as dumb as Gregy too. TAO11 never denied lucumi were Yoruba it was obvious. The point was relating to the scholars who said there were 3 types of lucumi from oyo, chabe or Bariba. But bariba are not Yoruba they only speak the language hence his refrence to them as also lucumi but not proper. Now the author said he wasn’t sure if the lucumi was proper lucumi which is oyo or just bariba who just speaks lucumi. No one knows for sure. With that said several sources claim that lucumis were employ as administrators in ur bini kingdom and not only that lucumi was the lingual Franca. U can do ur further research to dispute it but until u do it remains credible.

You are the dumb one here with comprehension problems.

Out of the numerous writers that wrote on the Benin history, no one wrote anything about the Benin kingdom having to

1) First change its language from Edo to Yoruba

2) Then later to Edo again.

If you have excellent reasoning, you would know the account of the french writer is either false, a misconception or he visited some other places he thought were part of the Benin kingdom. His statements opposes common sense on the matter on ground.

If you think otherwise, how is it possible Yoruba slaves that served the king in the palace influenced the king to change his mother tongue to Yoruba?

At what time did the king decide to change back to Edo language?

If you cant provide this, then let common sense guide you.

YauYamba:
Again your own attachment confirms my point that Benin Kingdom adopted Yoruba language as lingua franca.

It says towards the end (citing the same French father I cited earlier) that:




"A Breton Capuchin, Colombino de Nantes, noted that by the 1630s Yoruba (Lucumi) was a lingua franca of muchof the coast."




It clearly says that this lingua-franca called Lucumi is one and the same thing as Yoruba -- your last straw has just been demolished.

Again it cited! the same French missionary I cited earlier -- who wrote that Benin adopted same foreign language as its lingua-franca.

But you're free to ignore whatever won't let you sleep at night. Lol.

Now you have agreed that the Lucumies are Yorubas as opposed to your earlier stance.

We are progressing.

If the Lucumies were Yorubas and they were employed to serve the Oba, how is it possible that slaves influenced the mother tongue of the king , the chiefs and the soldiers?

Let your brain figure that out if it is working properly.

As for the french writer, his claims are debatable and will require another independent source to corroborate it.

From all the books you have read about Benin kingdom, he was the only one that made such claims despite not being the only visitor to the Benin kingdom as at that time.

Many writers wrote explicitly about the Benin kingdom in great details and none ever mentioned that there was a change of language at anytime in history of the kingdom.

Such an important assertion can not be proved by one wild claim.

He may have met and interacted with only the slaves who run errands in the kingdom. The Oba of Benin at that as well the chiefs were not open to receiving visitors not to mention a mere missionary who was on a trip to propagate his religion.

Mine is Lani.

My local government is Ovia North East.

Village is Ozorgwor

YauYamba:
Baribas are obviously not Yorubas ethnically. Anyone who have read a relevant book on the subject should know.

In other words, your article's mention of Lucumies there is in reference to peopele who speak Yoruba generally (not necessarily people whose ethnicity is Yoruba.

Its inclusion of the Baribas, for example, gives this away quickly.

And your article clearly expresses its doubt and uncertainty as to whether or not the Yorubas proper (i.e. Yourubas ethnically) were among those slaves.


Once again, free your mind and read carefully below:




Your article obviously made it clear that it was unsure and uncertain if the said Yoruba-speaking slaves were actually Yorubas ethnically, or peopele from a different ethnic group who have only adopted the Yoruba language, e.g. the "Baribas".

Your article admitted this. So, stop pretending.

Moreover, I am still amazed as to how a handful of slaves could have influenced the Benin King, his chiefs, and the whole Kingdom into adopting a foreign language -- Yoruba language.

They even managed the administrative affairs of Benin Kingdom.

Logically then, the respective events of my article is clearly and obviously different and distinct from the event of your article.

The events of my article shows that Yorubas were administrators in Benin Kingdom, and that Yoruba language became Benin kingdom's lingua-franca.

This is in sharp contrast to the event of your own article which admits that the said Yoruba speakers here are possibly not Yorubas ethnically. And that they were enslaved not employed as administrators. Big difference! Lol.

In sum, both articles speaks to different and distinct events obviously. Open up your mind. Lol.

First the writer mentioned that the Lucumies were Yoruba. Pls read that line like twenty times so you can comprehend it.

Then the writer went further to list 3 types of Lucumies.

1) the main Lucumies are from Oyo ( emphasis on main)

2) lucumi bariba

3) Lucumi sabe.

Now the writer say the Lucumies employed in the palace are possibly but necessarily from Oyo. As much as the writer wasn't sure if the Lucumies employed in the palace were from Oyo, he wasn't also sure they were not from Oyo.

In one of the supporting documents you posted, it was specifically stated that the onukumi are a small group of eastern Yoruba people. I dont know why you are trying to separate the lucumi identity from the Yoruba at this point of the argument when you have admitted severally that they were Yorubas.

Is it because you have been enlightened they were slaves in the Oba's palace?

YauYamba:
(1) Your article obviously made it clear that it was unsure and uncertain if the said Yoruba-speaking slaves were actually Yorubas ethnically, or some people from other ethnic group who have simply adopted the Yoruba language, e.g. the Baribas.

Your article admitted this. So, stop pretending.

Moreover, a handful of slaves could not possibly have influenced the King, his chiefs, and the whole Kingdom into adopting a foreign language.

The events of my article and of yours are clearly different and distinct, though both true.

See this link here for my earliwr cimment in this:

https://www.nairaland.com/5846948/benin-yoruba-empire/5#89957911

(2) See attached for how Ibadan forces sacked and slave-raided territories of your Benin Kingdom.

From R.E. Bradbury himself.

What's your argument exactly?

The article clearly states that these slaves were Yoruba!
And the uncertainty has to do with " if they were from Oyo".

Pls read.


Pls desist from saying the oba , the chiefs and the soldiers spoke Yoruba as no where in the article did it say the lies you are propagating.

It was the Lucumies that were Yoruba that spoke the language. So there was no language influence whatsoever. Pls use your brain. How can slaves influence their master to the extent the Oba and chiefs changes their language?

Common sense should tell you that the reason the Lucumies were speaking Yoruba was because they didn't understand the language of the Oba and the indigenous people.


I will respond to your last propaganda in due time

lawani:
No, the language was spoken by the royalty, soldiers, judges, and all empire builders. They even went as far as naming new towns like agenebode a Yoruba name. Ago onibode means outpost of the sentry in Yoruba.

This assertion can only be manufactured by your redundant brain.

Sorry it really hurt to know Yorubas worked as slaves in the Benin kingdom.


I know you cant take it. But pls dont drink sniper.

lawani:
Pls if you can not be polite, do stop commenting on my post. The Benin palace had a palace language and that language was Yoruba. Deal with it.

Yes the language was spoken by Yoruba slaves. I hope your ancestors weren't among the spoils of war that served the Benin Oba

Dont bother replying @Tao11

The spam bot is tired of your propaganda.

lawani:
we know the lingua franca of the British empire, oyo empire and etc. Tell us the lingua franca of the Benin empire, be reminded that edo language does not pass Benin city.

You dont deserve a reply because your question reeks of embryonic intellectual redundancy.

TAO11:
There is no need deleting the thread. If that's what you meant.

What are you worried about?

Worried? Why should I be worried when your propaganda has been disbanded?


Anyone following this thread should get the full gist now and know where to stand in this debate

TAO11:
I think your motive shouldn't be to win an argument but ro learn.

Having said that, I shouldn't actually have replied this given that your reply shows you do not know certain basics yet.

But I consider it a moral duty to reply. And I can understand why you may be feeling the way you feel about this.

Lucumi, Lukumi, Olukumi, Onukumi, Alkomi, and endless variant spelling of it are in reference to the same people of a known region.

Your argument (which I think you're making here) is that each of these variant spellings relate to different ethnic group. This is is at best laughable.

It is like saying that the different variant spellings of Benin (such as Beny, etc.) by the Europeans --refer to different ethnic groups.

If you've ever read a book on early West African history, you would have come accross such variant spelling by Europeans of African names.

What I will advice is that first get that article and read through its pages first to ground yourself in the basics before replying.

But to say something specifically in reply to your comment:

(1) The 4th paragraph uses the words "Lucumi" and "Lucamee" interchangeably in reference to on and the same thing.

Again, this shows that the variants are simply spelling variants in reference to one and the same thing.

But more than that, the region of "Lucumi" (aka "Lucamee", etc.) was specifically delineated on the map of WestAfrica in that same paragraph.

It says Alladah and Whyday are to its southwest, and Benin Kingdom is to its southeast.

Where is that?

Learn to read and understand, that will make teaching you easier.

Did you read the part where variants of the word are used to refer to people? E.g Onukumi


Did you read that there are variants of the word in America according to the writer? I guess according to you that variant also refers to a group of people in west Africa.


Did you also read the letter by the French missionary saying the language is called "locomin" ?

Isnt that different from lucumi being used to refer to a group of people?

That's what I was pointing out to you.

TAO11:
I am not sure why you're pained about our Ooni. Oh okay I understand, he is you God and our King.

Having said that, let me know if you need evidence for the following historical facts:

(1) Benin was racked by war and reduced to a mere village.

(2) Binis were still largely roaming stark n@ked up until the late-1890s/early-1900s, and perhaps later.

(3) Ibadan forces raided territories of Benin Kingdom for slaves.

(4) Yoruba language was imposed as the lingua-franca of the palace of Benin Kingdom and of the whole Kingdom itself.

(5) Ekaladerhan (your new found ancestor) does not exist in any historical writing prior to the early 1930s.

cc: lawani, Obalufon

If it is the 1897 expedition you are referring to, the Benis are proud of themselves having won the first aggression from the British but fell to the second one.


2) As for number 2, citations and proper evidence needed . Dont bring those ones written by your Yoruba revisionists and propagandists.


3) This is another falsehood emanating from your brain.Attached is a screenshot that says as early as the 16th century, Yorubas were employed as slaves in the Benin palace.


4) The attached screenshot settles it. The lukumi whom you are referring to were simply slaves. Now go run along with your tail between your legs

Now the essence of this thread has been defeated.


The creator of the thread should bow out in shame

TAO11:
Finally, a Bini boy is advicing the Binis to trust these reports in good faith.

So now let me expose the latest deception here by the gayboy.

The same account you posted (your 1st screenshot) makes it clear that those so-called slaves are not necessarily people whose ethnicity is Yoruba, but rather people who are not Yorubas ethnically but have also themselves adopted the language of the Yorubas -- e.g., the Bariabs.

You have to learn to read your own screenshots before posting them to the public and getting yourself disgraced like this.

In the light of these, it then becomes clear that those slaves who themselves are not Yorubas ethnically -- but non-Yoruba speakers of the language -- are not the same people running the show of Benin Kingdom.

How could slaves possibly enslave the King, the Chiefs, and the whole Kingdom; and then imposing a different language.

No, a slave cannot possibly do that. The imposition of Yoruba language over Benin Kingdom (as the report -- which gregyboy suggests we must trust -- shows) is by noble freeborns who are Yorubas ethnically.

You left the most important message in the screenshot that talks about the lucumies that were employed in the Benin kingdom and started beating around the bush.

Just like he said the Lucumies were the king's slaves.

They work to serve the king. It even goes on to tell you why the king had to employ them to serve him . So that if they commit an offense, he wouldn't hesitate to punish them.

You wonder why they spoke foreign language? Because they are most likely part of the spoils of war.

Dont tell me you are pained because the document says some of those slaves maybe from Oyo (a yoruba land).

It's all history now. Cheer up.

TAO11:
(1) This is like saying there is no evidence that Benin Kingdom had any historical event at all in the 1600s, etc.

This is because the only eyewitness evidence we have of past historical events in Benin was from the reports of these visitors.

We didn't write those accounts ourselves. Lol.

So, you have a lot of things to illogicaly reject, and by the time you are done with your illogical rejection, historical Benin Kingdom will be non-existent, at least in your mind.

(2) Probably that's why the visiting Europeans and the local Binis never communicated with each other since their first contact in the year c.1490. Lol.

(3) What about our ancestors who were not "brought up" in these foreign languages, but yet learnt them to communicate during the early years of their first contacts with these foreign visitors?

May be they never communicated. Who knows!? Lol.

(4) How did Latin become the lingua-franca of all of Europe? Did the Latins set up a class to teach all Europeans Latin?

Again, think about "Eweka" from "Owo mi ka" -- the young lad's first words. Your answer may lie here. Don't ignore.

(5) The same report does not talk about the decline of Latin throughout Europe, hence Latin was never once the lingua-franca of Europe.

Moreover, if I'm writing today as an eyewitness of the prevalence of English as a lingua-franca in Nigeria, I can't possibly document an eyewiness account of the decline of same lingua-franca.

Such decline will perhaps happen only in the future, centuries from now. Any such report I give about decline is not an eyewitness report but a prophesy.

Hmmm! The kind of reasoning we see from you guys is so pathetic to say the least.

Yet you indicated somewhere that you're different from the normal Binis who "can't reason critically".

Sighs!

(6) "Scared" to include things that has absolutely nothing to do the actual purpose of the report??

Again, the report was a note, by this church Father, to the higher authorities back in France -- explaining to them that "climate" and "language" is not even a barrier for settling in Benin for missionary purposes.

He said their climate is "good" unlike in other parts of the Guinea, and their lingu-franca "is easy".

How is the particular name of the ruler supposed to be one of such essential factors to be included in his note to the church leaders?

So that the leaders back in France can pray over the ruler's name before coming?

Let's analyze the documents leading to your assertion.

From the documents you posted, did you read and understand that there are up to four variants of the word "lukumi" and each with different meanings depending on the region?


Now let's take a look at the second paragraph of the document you posted. Here the writer says "Lucumi doesn't appear to have been used of Yoruba speakers with one exception" . The exception is that a small Yoruba group calls itself " onukumi" which certainly looks like a variant of the word " lukumi" .

And then the writer concluded that paragraph by saying " It is conceivable that it represents a survival of a usage formally more widespread in west Africa ".

This means the word "lucumi" had many variants with different meanings and wasn't exclusive to the small Yoruba people who called themselves " Onukumi" (another variant).


In the third and fourth paragraph the writer layed emphasis on the meaning and usage of the different variants of the word.

It was used to refer to a place or region. (with reference to west Africa, no European has ever visited where the word was used to refer to a place).

He also mentioned that lucumi was used to refer to certain people and that is where the Benin kingdom came in.
Now the writer says " Lucumies were employed in the palace administration of the Benin kingdom " .


Now, where is the connection between the lucumies that were employed in the Oba's palace and the "Onukumi" (the Yoruba group)?

That wasn't mentioned at all. The discrepancies in the word and its corresponding meanings should have guided in your spurious assertion that Yoruba language was used in the palace administration of Benin kingdom.


If you read your supporting documents very well, you will see where the writer emphasized the word was widespread and popular at that time. The word even has a variant in the Americas.


In conclusion, I believe proper understanding of the text you uploaded is all you need.

The Benin kingdom had a variant of the word with a corresponding specific meaning while other groups in west Africa had theirs including the eastern Yoruba group who called themselves Onukumi.

The facts and statements in those documents is not enough for you and your revisionists to make such spurious assertions.

.

Fatherofdragons:
After killing igbos what has ur useless people benefitted for it, if not struggling to turn ur selves into 21st century slaves trying to get to Italy through Libya. Your women have turned themselves into sex slaves it's either they are raped or are forced to fvck dogs for the white man's pleasure while your men are ritualists.

I'd rather die in a war than been raped with a stick in the ass by an ugly looking Arab in Libya.

Continue living in the delusion of ''one Nigeria'' while ur people fall on top of each other in other to be the first to get beaten up and raped in another man's country because they want to escape the GLORIOUS NIGERIA they killed igbos for.

Most times you Igbo people forget that there is a log in your eyes but keep pointing to the dust in another man's eyes.

To be a prostitute in Italy and to be a drug pusher in India, Malaysia, Indonesia, South Africa, China, Oman, Spain and almost everywhere, which is more shameful?

Go to South Africa, igbos are being killed like flies on the street because of drugs

Go to Indonesia their prisons and jails are overcrowded by igbos for drug pushing. Check their death lists, and you will be amazed how many igbos are already signed to die by hanging, electrocution or firing squad.

Go to India and Malaysia, the police and security agencies now knows that every Emeka, Okafor and Chukwudi is a drug offender or fraudster.


I can go on and on about same tales all over the world yet you guys jump on every thread bashing Edo.

Go to nairaland front page and any drug related topic, it's the igbos.
Recently, some of your brethren carried their drug madness to your state and killed many of you because of drugs business.

Next time your mind starts to tell you to bash Edo for prostitution, ask yourself what about Emeka, Okafor and Chukwudi in Malaysia and Indonesia that are on death row for carrying drugs

oga snizzerkiller a.k.a chuks86 a.k.a godisgud86......you are still here with your Elitebook 820 to scam people


after bursting you severally on other threads with your several monikers , you still created this one because fraud is in your DNA.


until you refund and apologize to all those you have scammed here, you wont sell this system and you wont know peace

Godisgud86:
If you can name the people i have scammed and let them come here and confirmed that i scammed and i have done business with them. You are only a Jobless idiot.

ole ! ole ! theif.....

If you are innocent, come and defend yourself on this thread https://www.nairaland.com/4447059/please-just-got-scammed-snizzerkiller

To whom it may concern and to the safety of nairalanders, this guy is a scammer.


Do business with him at your own risk. He has many tactics and ways of scamming people. He has successfully scammed many people here.

Beware of him


check here to read about his activities

https://www.nairaland.com/4494604/reduced-hp-elitebook-820-g2#67406438

nairalanders beware......this guy is a scammer


CC

bobo65

Hajayman

elpacino481

damiosy

Godisgud86:
Very Neat UK used HP Elitebook 820 G2, core i7 processor, 16gb Ram, superfast 256ssd, slim and portable 12.5 inches Microsoft office already installed. Running on Windows 10 professional, webcam,, Very strong battery upto 4hrs plus,

price #125,000- *non negotiable*

Call=09084342167

no hiding place for scammers on nairaland!

chuks86 a.k.a snizzerkiller a.k.a Gearbay also has another moniker Godisgud86.

He scammed someone early this year of gift cards using chuks86. He then proceeded to scam another person of 60k on this thread using another moniker https://www.nairaland.com/4447059/please-just-got-scammed-snizzerkiller

he then posted this advert using snizzerkiller which he used to scam the guy of 60k on this thread https://www.nairaland.com/4436854/sleek-mint-hp-elitebook-820#66631702

He de-activated snizzerkiller moniker and posted the advert using Gearbay on this thread https://www.nairaland.com/4474095/quick-sale-uk-820-g2


he then marked the item as sold because he was busted as a scammer.


He then placed the advert again using another of his numerous monikers this time Godisgud86. Now to prove Godisgud86 is same person as gearbay......check out the phone number from his advert below

Hp Laptop Model : Elite book 820 G2
Processor Type: Intel Core i7 5th gen
Processor Speed: 2.6 GHz to 3.20 GHz
Installed Memory: 16 GB Ram
Hard Drive: SuperFast 256 SSD
Operating System: Windows 10
Operating System Edition: 64-bit operating system
Screen Size: 12'5"
Webcam: Yes
Charger: Yes
Wireless: Yes
PLACE An order for delivery today. Sms your NAME ADDRESS and PHONE or LAPTOP of your choice to 09084342167. 24Hrs Delivery Service Within Lagos N1000 (Payment on delivery) charge within Lagos

He uses same phone number 09084342167 as he uses on this thread

Elpacino481:
from this his statement I felt something was wrong. " Sms your NAME ADDRESS and PHONE or LAPTOP of your choice to 09084342167" who does business like that? is it a lotto?. Guy you're fake and a scammer. until you prove yourself innocent. Bright007 thanks for exposing this guy.

the guy is a scammer....he has scammed two people that i am aware of on nairaland this year. here ...https://www.nairaland.com/4447059/please-just-got-scammed-snizzerkiller and https://www.nairaland.com/3985148/dont-trade-chukky86-hes-scam


the evidence that nailed him is that he came here saying he has a shop at computer village but when you wanna have a deal with him he tells you to meet him at Yaba or that he can deliver it to you .

Gearbay:
You welcome...will be expecting you. So you can testify.

good one mr snizzerkiller......will make sure the last guy you scammed comes to the address

bobo65:
Ill b going to computer village on Friday, let me go check things out myself

good one my brother. you will be amazed how nobody will claim knowing gearbaby nor his product

here is his throwback post..........what a life

Gearbay:
You can keep barking, you are happy spoiling business, may your family find no happiness and from this day,all the curses in the Bible shall be yours, only if I am the scammer you think I am.


I rest my case. I hope it makes you more happy.

you are a scammer. i am in touch with the last guy you scammed. he will soon be here to provide more evidence . you may have scammed him, but you cant scam another.

bright007:
a quick look at your moniker will reveal you have only this product as your advert in two topics.

you created this moniker on the 20th of this month, just days after you scammed someone of 60k and deactivated your old account

bright007:
oga just shut up....which shop?

is it the one you aren't proud of putting in your adverts? Have you forgotten how you tell prospective clients to meet you at Yaba?

i wonder if your own computer village is at Yaba

deal with all these evidence up there and just throw in the towel. Decide today to start living a better life before scam erodes your destiny

Gearbay:
When you are done keyboard warrior, you know when to stop. If you don't have anything meaningful to say. Wa ba ti e Ni waju. To ma ba gbogbo nkan aye je. O de Ni ri atunse.

scammer ....you have been busted. i just saved another victim from falling into your trap. Now, that makes me happy.

Gearbay:
Come down to my store, I will pay your Tfare and let me know you are bright007.

oga just shut up....which shop?

is it the one you aren't proud of putting in your adverts? Have you forgotten how you tell prospective clients to meet you at Yaba?

i wonder if your own computer village is at Yaba

Gearbay:
There is a yoruba adage that said A-bi-i-ko; a-ko-i-gba; ode lo ti nkogbon wale.

show us proof you aint snizzerkiller the scammer.

Gearbay:
You need help.. I will stop there.

go and change your ways . Scamming people will ensure you die a puppet.


its on you at the moment to prove that you aint snizzerkiler. I will find someone who will verify your shop at computer village in no time. you are very lucky you didnt scam me or anyone close to me, by now, you for dey kirikiri or kuje prison