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Romance / Re: Refine Your Dating Game (Charm 101) Ladies Don't Enter! by butterfly88(m): 5:42am On Jun 16, 2017
g.m novelist guy thanks for the post Bro still got a lot to learn ibehodinakapeter@gmail.com
Religion / Re: Theism And The Pettiness Of God by butterfly88(m): 1:50pm On Apr 08, 2017
one hell of an article @ o.p..beautifully articulated.

indeed an all powerful God should be self sufficient and be free from all humane weaknesses however insignificant.

but like to approach the concept of the creator "wanting" us to worship him from another dimension. and to do that I'll use this simple,human logic

a teacher wants his student to study not because, the seriousness of the his student will make him(the teacher) a better person but because the students serious will actually make the student a better person.

and when the student refuses to study the teacher becomes furious and sometimes is forced to punish the student,not because the students refusal to study affects the teachers future but actually it affects the student

so from this logic, the teacher needs the student to study for the students own good.

Now can we modify your article saying " God only "wants" the creature to worship him for the creature's own good and not because it adds anything to Him(God)..or better still it is you who needs to worship, God,and strive to be a better person and not God who needs your worship.

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Literature / Re: That Little, Crazy Chicken! (A Comedy) by butterfly88(m): 10:02pm On Oct 14, 2016
I love this!! nice one @op
....keep it coming

I'm so following

1 Like

Religion / Re: How God Healed, Saved And Delivered Me From HIV (My Story) by butterfly88(m): 8:31am On Oct 14, 2016
grin...what a deliverance

7 Likes

Religion / Re: A Sincere Question For Theists: Where Did Evil Originate From? by butterfly88(m): 8:06pm On Oct 13, 2016
shadeyinka:


There is no plan behind natural disasters!
Its like a Trojan infestation of a computer: some unplanned things happen.


Is it the fault of the manufacturer?
Even the user could have inherited the computer!

Something tampered with the original plan of the earth and that is the main problem every thing we see as bad are just symptoms of the initial infection.

This had always been the Christian Theists position
bolded sir...does this mean that the Creator was imperfect afterall, and has,no knowledge that his "perfect plan" will be altered.?
Religion / Re: A Sincere Question For Theists: Where Did Evil Originate From? by butterfly88(m): 7:52am On Oct 13, 2016
DoctorAlien:


Remember that you would have been a robot today without a mind of your own, had GOD not given freewill to you.
I'm only against you attributing the origin of evil to Satan the accursed ...the creation of freewill is a better response..."and maybe that's the best design possible"
Religion / Re: A Sincere Question For Theists: Where Did Evil Originate From? by butterfly88(m): 7:41am On Oct 13, 2016
DoctorAlien:


The gift of freewill will surely be abused, and rebellion against GOD will surely arise, but woe to the person through who these will come.
ok..so it is from the creation of "freewill" afterall and not the devil
Religion / Re: A Sincere Question For Theists: Where Did Evil Originate From? by butterfly88(m): 7:34am On Oct 13, 2016
... pardon me please,whats the verse trying to explain? @ doctoralien
Religion / Re: A Sincere Question For Theists: Where Did Evil Originate From? by butterfly88(m): 7:26am On Oct 13, 2016
DoctorAlien:


Lucifer was very powerful in Heaven. He was the covering cherub of GOD Himself. He stood in the presence of GOD Himself, and beheld His face. He was terrible in power and might, majestic to behold, and was adorned with wisdom surpassed only by the wisdom of GOD. Indeed, he sealed up the sum(Ezek. 28:12). He was the leader of the angels. They delighted to carry out his will(that was why he was able to deceive some of them). The only privilege which Lucifer was not given was knowledge of the counsels of GOD Himself. This is reserved only for GOD.

Thus, Lucifer was next in power only to the GODhead.
good,

now: you're trying to push the origin of "evil" to push the origin of sin to Satan the accursed and this is not correct


for it begs the question, does God have infinite knowledge? if yes!, that means therefore that He definitely knows that the creation of Satan will also bring sin(assuming Satan created evil)..now if He knows this prior to the creation of Satan and[b] wants a world free of evil[/b] Why did he go ahead with the creation of Satan?

the only way we can resolve this is either god has no prior knowledge (that is he doesn't know what he is about to make), which is incorrect.

i won't rush unto concluding...lets have your opinion.

1 Like

Religion / Re: A Sincere Question For Theists: Where Did Evil Originate From? by butterfly88(m): 6:57am On Oct 13, 2016
DoctorAlien:


Yours is a very intelligent question. The truth is that the origin of sin and evil is mysterious and unaccounted for. It is mysterious because it is hard to understand why a being terribly powerful(next in power only to the GODhead), in the holy and untainted courts of Heaven, would begin to harbour conceit and pride in his heart.

It is pertinent to understand, anyway, that GOD does not force obedience from His Creatures, and that they can choose to worship Him or not.
What do you mean by "a being next in power to the Godhead please"?

1 Like

Religion / Re: Fine Tuning Of The Universe, Prove Of A Designer Or Not by butterfly88(m): 2:23pm On Oct 12, 2016
AgentOfAllah:
Most of the universe is still adverse to life. You cannot - because you exist on a tiny speckle of dust that is conducive to life - extrapolate that the universe is conducive to life.

This doesn't seem to be the doing of an all powerful god. Surely, the creative force of an all powerful god cannot be constrained by the effects of gravity. It rather seems to me that god was bound by these laws, thus, constructing the universe using the right constant values, otherwise its work would have been DOA. This means that the laws and constants you talk about preponderate god.

This is a misunderstood reading of the anthropic principle. It states simply, that we observe the universe because (local) conditions are conducive for an observer to exist within the same universe. In other words, we wouldn't exist to question how well-tuned the constants of the universe are were it to be any other way, so there is nothing remarkable that we just so happen to exist here.
I really don't understand what you mean by a "misunderstood reading" of the anthropic principle, for most of the proponents of the principle support the view that the universe is fined tuned

taking the bolded a step further it simply means that our seemingly fortuitous, suspiciously specific locale, temperature range, chemical and physical milieus are just what’s needed to produce life.

also---
the more I examine the universe, and the details of its elegance , the more evidence I find that the Universe in some sense must have known we(the observers) were coming. — Freeman Dyson.


also---
John Barrow another proponent of the anthropic principle states - the universe seems fined tuned for life and even went further to say " This is known as the antrophic principle"


and John wheeler in his own version of the anthropic principle proposed that - observers are required to bring the universe into existence. his version simply says that any pre-life Earth would have existed in an indeterminate state, like Schrödinger’s cat. Once an observer exists, the aspects of the universe under observation become forced to resolve into one state, a state that includes a seemingly pre-life Earth. This means that a prelife universe can only exist retroactively after the fact of consciousness.
Or simply put- an observer is required to bring the universe into existence


so if anthropic principle doesn't support fine tuning and the fact that the universe was the result of "consciousness" what does it support?
Religion / Re: Fine Tuning Of The Universe, Prove Of A Designer Or Not by butterfly88(m): 11:33am On Oct 12, 2016
donnffd:


You still dont get my point...

@bolded
1. There is no evidence yet to confirm anybody chose anything.

2. It could be argued that the universe was fine-tuned for stars rather than life because stars are littered everywhere in the universe but life is very very limited.

3. Saying the universe is fine-tuned is also acknowledging that you know the difference between a fine-tuned universe and a "not fine-tuned" one hence me asking, how can you make such a conclusion when you have a sample size of one?(i used the snow-flake example, i suggest you refer to it), its simple logic.

So, if you have just a single example, how can you know whether it was fine-tuned or not, when you dont even know what a "not fine-tuned" universe looks like (i really dont know how i will explain for you to understand again oooo!).
1)I'm not arguing that there us "proof " of a hand that puts things in it their perfect position, but the facts of fine tuning "possibly" points to that...for there is something uncannily perfect about our universe. The laws of physics and the values of physical constants seem, as Goldilocks said, “just right.” If even one of the multitudes of physical properties of the universe had been different, stars, planets, and galaxies would never have formed. Life would have been all but impossible..here is where my argument comes in

Tweak the charge on an electron, for instance, or change the strength of the gravitational force or the strong nuclear force just a littel, and the universe would look very different, and likely be lifeless. The challenge for physicists is explaining why such physical parameters are what they are.

Also my final response to AgentOfAllah is this- true most of the observable universe is "dark energy" which is responsible for the expansion of the universe-the amazing thing again is--if dark energy were very much bigger we wouldn’t be here, Even a slightly larger value of dark energy would have caused spacetime to expand so fast that galaxies wouldn’t have formed.

why are all these parameters "just right" for life?
Religion / Re: Fine Tuning Of The Universe, Prove Of A Designer Or Not by butterfly88(m): 10:33am On Oct 12, 2016
AgentOfAllah:
What do you understand by the term "physical constant"? Because you've mentioned a mighty lot of things, and of all these, only Planck length is veritably a "physical constant".

Again, do you know what a constant is? And, in the scale of the universe, you live on an inconsequential accretion of matter not even worthy of being called a blemish, yet you seem to think the universe is not hostile to life. How have you arrived at your conclusion?

You assume all the other fundamental forces shouldn't scale with a change in the value of the strong nuclear interaction. If these forces are multiple expressions of a grand unified model, there is no reason why one should be independent of the other.

You have not shown that the universe is conducive for life. Let's put things in perspective: The density of the universe is 10-27 kg/m3. This implies that for every cubic meter of space in the universe, there is on average, roughly only one hydrogen atom. Try to process that thought, and you will come to appreciate that much of the observable universe is vacuum; and vacuum, sir, is not conducive for life at all.

It is true that the fundamental constants seem finely adjusted to allow for the development of life, but this is not the same as the claim the the universe is conducive for life. Be careful about making exorbitant claims like that! Finally, that the fundamental constants seem "finely tuned" does not mean they are in fact, "finely tuned". You should read a little on the anthropic principles. The fact is that we don't have a clue why these things appear to be so fine-tuned in this manner, but I encourage you to think about the implication that emerges from your "intelligent design" claim.

To state that the universal constants are so finely tuned that they suggest the input of some purposeful designer invariably suggests that this designer must force their designs to conform to certain constraining rules, outside of which, they are unable to be creative. For example, if god used 0.1C instead of C as the speed of light in its attempt to convert energy into mass, matter would not exist. This means god itself is subject to some objective physical laws. While succumbing to the inexorability of these physical laws may suggest an intelligent designer, it tells an unflattering account of your "all powerful" intelligent designer.
other fundamental constants asides Planck's lengths include, the Newtonian constant of gravitation, speed of light in a vacuum, harthee constant,stefan boltzmann constant, josephen constants et cetera...

Let's call the others "finely tuned constants or better still parameters"

these physical constants are also life friendly so to say...take for instance the velocity of light..i gave john.ydon n22 an example on how it will affect the luminosity of stars and render the universe adverse to life

all the gravitation constants,if weaker or stronger it will affect the temperature of stars..and if the stars were too hot it will burn out too quickly and to cool it will render fusion impossible hence making life impossible.

now a quick look at antrophic principle

Robert dicke laid down his argument in this manner - assuming gravity was a hair stronger or the Big Bang a sliver weaker, and therefore the universe’s lifespan significantly shorter, we couldn’t be here to think about it. Because we’re here, the universe has to be the way it is and therefore isn’t unlikely at all.

this to clearly supports "fine tuning" and most likely a conscious designer.
Religion / Re: Fine Tuning Of The Universe, Prove Of A Designer Or Not by butterfly88(m): 9:40am On Oct 12, 2016
donnffd:


What are you saying?, if thats an attempt to insult, i would advise to refrain from it and use your intellect instead of your heart in arguing.

We have heard the argument all over and over again, the fundamental constants are just right and if slightly deviated from its current values would result in a universe far different from this.

Now i am asking you, Have you seen another universe for you to deduce that this one was fine-tuned?, Have you compared this one with any other one?, are you basing your judgement on a sample size of one?
not attempting to insult you bro..only asking if you fully grasp the concept of fine tuning..i'm also not claiming to be a master in the field

as for the bolded...this one is not a question of using the heart in argument(it isn't a topic of lovecheesy)...various scientists(atheist and Theist) have argued in this line and have supported the concept of fine tuning notable of then is stephen hawking...and others too have argued on the contrary

I am a student of knowledge and if you logic/opinion on the topic is superior I'll gladly accept

having different opinions on something isn't a crime by the way.

as for your question my topic isn't about comparing one universe with another but about the fundamental constants that governs the universe...why are they so "carefully chosen" to accommodate life?
Religion / Re: Nature, Made For Man Or Indifferent To Man's Existence [the Article] by butterfly88(m): 9:19am On Oct 12, 2016
realtem:
shocked This is long.
cheesy and equally interesting
Religion / Re: Fine Tuning Of The Universe, Prove Of A Designer Or Not by butterfly88(m): 9:02am On Oct 12, 2016
johnydon22:
In a random dirty puddle in the ground an amoeba lives, the puddle has just the right temperature, just the right salinity and texture and so the amoeba thinks

"This puddle must certainly have been made specially for me"

This is the situation here, just like the amoeba the fact that we are means the universe can accomodate us, if this was a universe that cannot accomodate us, we won't be here and we won't ask this question.

In this cosmic causality there are two possibilities.

-either the universe can accomodate life
-or it can't

So do you think one part of the coin is likely without interference from extra-cosmic intelligence and not the other half, the possibility is like a coin tose so both are equally fully possible with or without such external interference

But just like the amoeba - We found ourselves in a universe that can accomodate us therefore we begin to think that the universe was made just to accomodate us.

That is a grand delusion of the amoeba -

99.9% of the universe is hostile to organic molecules [ultimately life] i wonder how such a hostile universe was caused with a purpose of harbouring life in mind cus it seems that is a project gone wrong.

It is absurd to assume that all the universe is was tweeked just for you..
I wouldn't rush into disputing your opinion...but my take on fine tuning revolves around the fundamental constants that governs the operation of the universe , and there exists hundreds of these constants(as far as I know) and if just one of them was tweaked beyond its acceptable limit things will go out of hand

for instance the speed of light,if it has another value asides the present,it will greatly affect the luminosity of stars which make it impossible for life to thrive here

even the mysterious weak nuclear force, if it had been weaker life will be impossible from the beginning of time(the big bang)

so the question is, are these constants which govern the universe carefully chosen for life, or a mere delusion (like the warm and the puddle)

will you say fine tuning is mere fallacy even when presented with all these fundamental constants that works in-synch to support life, will you call them the result of mere chance?

1 Like

Religion / Re: Fine Tuning Of The Universe, Prove Of A Designer Or Not by butterfly88(m): 7:48am On Oct 12, 2016
@donnffd:do you even understand the concept of fine tuning to begin with?
Religion / Re: Fine Tuning Of The Universe, Prove Of A Designer Or Not by butterfly88(m): 7:34am On Oct 12, 2016
AgentOfAllah:


I read your post, and then asked 2 specific questions resulting from my reading. I wouldn't ask those questions if I felt your post answered them. For the sake of clarity, here they are again:

1) Give an example of a "carefully chosen" physical constant.

2) Explain how this constant makes the universe conducive for life.
ok then

1) we have the force of gravity,electromagnetism,weak and the strong nuclear force and many many more like the nuclear efficiency,the cosmological constant,the plank's length....all these forces maintains a short range of values which if exceeded in the slightest will cause the universe to operate in a strange way and even render it hostile to life

take for example the strong nuclear force, if it was say 1.99% stronger it will greatly affect the fusion of stars, i bet you know what this means.if not it simply means there will be no hydrogen in the universe,
you should know what this means

-- if the force of electromagnetism was a bit weaker or stronger the universe will die out in no time(short lived)

--if the cosmological constant was a bit larger the will mean that the universe will expand too quickly,, and the result, the universe will form a solar type star in no time

---also the hiesenbergs uncertainties magnitude if too small, oxygen transport to cells will be reduced, and the effect, it will render some life essential elements unstable

there are more of these constants,but will stop here

as for your 2nd question...I think the above explains them too..to further clarify take the quote below

The laws of science, as we presently know, contain many fundamental numbers(constants), e.g the size of the electric charge of the electron and the ratio of the masses of the proton and the electron, .. The fascinating thing is that the values of these numbers seem to have been very finely adjusted to make possible the development of life--stephen hawking

cc.johnydon22

what is your opinion about this?
Religion / Re: Fine Tuning Of The Universe, Prove Of A Designer Or Not by butterfly88(m): 5:53pm On Oct 11, 2016
ValentineMary:
There is a place in the mariana trench(the deepest part of earth) that if humans go without a submarine, the pressure would immediately kill them. But on getting there, there were some fishes there who the pressure did not kill. In fact the place was well suited for the fish. Was the Mariana Trench designed for those fishes or did they adapt @ Butterfly88??
you are not addressing the o.p, I never disputed or tried to dispute organisms ability to adapt.

my argument revolves around the fundamental forces that governs our universe..and like I said and is correctly known if any of them had other values asides the present,there will be no us...and we wouldn't be here to speak of adaptation in the 1st place....how come all these values appear to be "carefully chosen" to suit life...is this evidence of calculation and planning and hence evidence of an intelligent designer or this correctly chosen values just came up coincidentally as sirwere pointed
Religion / Re: Fine Tuning Of The Universe, Prove Of A Designer Or Not by butterfly88(m): 5:03pm On Oct 11, 2016
Edenoscar:
Can you explian in detail what you mean by
from the op--- it had become clear that if the Big Bang had been just one part in a million more powerful, the cosmos would have blown outward too fast to allow stars and worlds to form. Result: no us. Even more coincidentally, the universe’s four forces and all of its constants are just perfectly set up for atomic interactions the existence of atoms and elements, planets, liquid water, and life. Tweak any of them and you never existed
Religion / Re: Fine Tuning Of The Universe, Prove Of A Designer Or Not by butterfly88(m): 4:59pm On Oct 11, 2016
AgentOfAllah:


I don't get it when you say the values of physical constants are "carefully chosen", nor am I sure you know what you mean when you say "the universe". Can you give an example of a "carefully chosen" physical constant, and how this constant makes the universe conducive for life?
you'll get the info if you go through the op bro
Religion / Re: Fine Tuning Of The Universe, Prove Of A Designer Or Not by butterfly88(m): 11:59am On Oct 11, 2016
ifenes:


Right
very correct sire..taking it a step further,without consciousness matter dwells in a undermined state of probability...for instead the nature of the electron cannot be determined except there is a conscious observer..Therefore on a larger scale any universe that could have preceded consciousness only existed in a probability state

hence consciousness should precede the universe.....i totally agree!!
Religion / Re: Fine Tuning Of The Universe, Prove Of A Designer Or Not by butterfly88(m): 11:38am On Oct 11, 2016
SirWere:


....C'mon; you're warping my argument.


I'm only saying that; just because something has a very small probability doesn't mean its impossible.

Classic example: The sperm race to the egg.....


oh...probability when used to explain why all physical constants in the universe are so fine tuned to support life is very wacky sorry to say....isnt it more logical to say that these values were carefully chosen...and not the result of merely tossing millions of dices and still ending up with the correct result all the time
Religion / Re: Fine Tuning Of The Universe, Prove Of A Designer Or Not by butterfly88(m): 11:24am On Oct 11, 2016
ifenes:

Commercial Science is not going to answer all questions because it doesn't explain everything. The first question I tend to ask these day is; who are the scientists we trust so much with vital information like the Origin of the Planet? Majority of key information are rendered "Classified" which means they ain't meant for the public.

If the OP is trying to push what he perceives as a fine-tuned Universe to the working of an Intelligent Designer,he may be right. But whom can this be. Everyone experiences the Universe in different,unlimited ways. A disturbed mind will have a distorted reality until a solution is found. From the Psych world the Universe is in the mind. What we think is what we experience... Every individual is an Intelligent Designer.

The Cosmos,Universe,Planet are interpretations of energy fields in our minds. So rather than trying to study the Universe from outside like science is pretending to do,we might want to do it from the inside of our minds.
hmm...interesting....if I get you correctly bro..." our perception of the universe is only a function of our mind?

or to put it otherwise what we perceive as reality and how we visualise the universe is only a function of our consciousness...right?
Religion / Re: Fine Tuning Of The Universe, Prove Of A Designer Or Not by butterfly88(m): 11:17am On Oct 11, 2016
SirWere:
Fine tuning eh


..... A worm wanders into soil filled with humus.

He glories in its warmth and feels comfortable with its smooth smooth particles.



Suddenly; he declares:

"The soil is too soft; too WELL-DESIGNED............it must have been made for me!!"


......and the next day the farmer comes and clears it and that's the end of that gringringrin




**********************************

Seriously though; it is fallacious to state that because something is exceedingly improbable; it is impossible.


Take a look at football, EPL to be precise. Had anyone said ten years ago that Leicester would win the league; Chelsea would end tenth and Manchester would struggle against Stoke; we would have referred such a person to the asylum....



The Multiverse universe is vast; wide, full of many mysteries and secrets we have not yet tapped yet. Is it so impossible to believe that there are underlying; simpler principle that explain the supposedly precise values


Most physicists are speculating above alternate universes but I dunno; it takes a lot of assumptions to accept that.






......And as for the biological part; let's not go there. People have this immediate knee jerk response when you suggest? that they are really not that special in the scheme of things.
wow..physics and science doesn't work that...take this concept imagine going for your project defence and want you were only able to come up with is

" I randomly mixed this with that and guess what I got this masterpiece".....what will you expect from your audience...a round of applause? certainly not "
Religion / Re: Fine Tuning Of The Universe, Prove Of A Designer Or Not by butterfly88(m): 10:49am On Oct 11, 2016
hmm...you've made a fine argument, but here is the concept of fine tuning of the universe...

all fundamental physical constants that governs the universe appears to be carefully chosen just to suit life this is evident from the fact that if you tweak any of them a little then life will definitely seize to exists.

and I clearly noted that if the big bang was tweaked by one part in million time then there will be no us...this is evidence of fine tuning@ Edenoscar.

my argument is clearly sighted in the op...take time to read please

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Religion / Re: Fine Tuning Of The Universe, Prove Of A Designer Or Not by butterfly88(m): 9:39am On Oct 11, 2016
cc:johnydon22,ifenes, taurus25, sirwere, cooluseename,kevoh,lordnicklaus,valentinemary.....
Religion / Fine Tuning Of The Universe, Prove Of A Designer Or Not by butterfly88(m): 9:30am On Oct 11, 2016
Our world as we know appears to be designed for life, not just at the microscopic scale of the atom, but at the level of the universe itself. Scientists have discovered that the universe has a long list of traits that make it appear as if everything it contains(from atoms to stars)was tailor-made just for us. Many are calling this revelation the “Goldilocks Principle,” because the cosmos is not too this or too that but rather “just right for life. Others are invoking the principle of “Intelligent Design,” because they believe it’s no accident the cosmos is so ideally suited for us.

This puts us in the midst of a great debate,there was a recent trial over whether intelligent design can be taught as an alternative to evolution in public school biology classes. Proponents claim Darwin’s theory of evolution is exactly that(a theory) and cannot fully explain the origin of all life, which naturally it never claims to do. Indeed, they believe the universe itself is the product of an intelligent force,which most people would simply call God. On the other side are he vast majority of scientists, who believe that natural selection may have a few gaps, but for all intents and purposes is a scientific fact.

And it will just be marvellous if the debate changed from the contentious one about exchanging evolution for religion, and switched to the more productive tack of asking whether science can explain why the universe appears to be built for life. Of course, the fact that the cosmos seems exactly balanced and designed for life is just an inescapable scientific observation—not an explanation for why

Amazing it is that no matter which logic one adopts, one has to come to terms with the fact that we are living in a very peculiar cosmos. By the late sixties, it had become clear that if the Big Bang had been just one part in a million more powerful, the cosmos would have blown outward too fast to allow stars and worlds to form. Result: no us. Even more coincidentally, the universe’s four forces and all of its constants are just perfectly set up for atomic interactions the existence of atoms and elements, planets, liquid water, and life. Tweak any of them and you never existed

Such life-friendly values of physics are built into the universe like the cotton and linen fibers woven into our currency. The gravitational constant is perhaps the most famous, but the fine structure constant is just as critical for life. Called alpha, if it were just 1.1x or more of its present value, fusion would no longer occur in stars.also, if gravity was a hair stronger or the Big Bang a sliver weaker, and therefore the universe’s lifespan significantly shorter, we couldn’t be here to think about it. Because we’re here, the universe has to be the way it is and therefore isn’t unlikely at all

Electromagnetism is another of the four fundamental forces, that helps facilitate the existence of atoms and allows the entire visible universe to exist. And any small change in its value will mean that none of us will be her here.

So you either have an astonishingly improbable coincidence revolving around the indisputable fact that the cosmos could have any properties but happens by chance to have exactly the right ones for life or else you have exactly what must be seen if indeed the cosmos is the product of consciousness. Either way, the notion of a random billiard-ball cosmos that could have had any forces that boast any range of values, but instead has the weirdly specific ones needed for life, looks impossible enough to seem downright silly.

And if any of this seems too preposterous, just consider the alternative, which is what contemporary science asks us to believe: that the entire universe, exquisitely tailored for our existence, popped into existence out of absolute nothingness. Who would accept such a thing? Has anyone offered any credible explanation for this? what logic can explain this?

Has anyone explained how dumb carbon, hydrogen, and oxygen molecules could have, by combining accidentally, become sentient—aware!—and then utilized this sentience to acquire a taste for pando and egusi? How any possible natural random process could mix those molecules in a blender for a few billion years so that out would pop conscious creatures ? Can anyone conceive of any edges to the cosmos? Infinity? Or how particles still spring out of nothingness? Or conceive of any of the many supposed extra dimensions that must exist everywhere in order for the cosmos to consist fundamentally of interlocking strings and loops? Or explain how ordinary elements can ever rearrange themselves so that they continue to acquire self-awareness and a loathing for jollof rice ? Or, again, how every one of dozens of forces and constants are precisely fine-tuned for the existence of life

So is the very very structure of the universe is explainable only by acknowledging a conscious designer?. As the universe is fine-tuned for life, which makes perfect sense as life creates the universe, not the other way around. The universe is simply the complete spatio-temporal logic of the self.

Or is there a better explanation for why the universe is fined tuned?...your opinions will be respected,,and I'll love a healthy constructive debate, all forms of squabbles should be avoided

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Science/Technology / Re: A Brief History Of Physics(the Four Physical Forces) by butterfly88(m): 8:26am On Oct 09, 2016
spacyzuma:
I was searching for *nuclear* on NL and I came across this nice thread. Just followed.

Keep it up, OP.

+1
thanks sir
Religion / Re: My Journey To Atheism (A Story Of An Ex Muslim) by butterfly88(m): 8:03pm On Oct 08, 2016
johnydon22:


I'm wondering if you'd say this if the person above deconverted from Christianity, i'm really thinking.

Seriously would you?

Hypocrites.
indubitably not,he'd be like He was never a christian,,he was never guided by the holy spirit...this here is the peak of hypocrisy
Religion / Re: My Journey To Atheism (A Story Of An Ex Muslim) by butterfly88(m): 8:00pm On Oct 08, 2016
johnydon22:


I'm wondering if you'd say this if the person above deconverted from Christianity, i'm really thinking.

Seriously would you?

Hypocrites.
indubitably not,he'd be like He was never a christian,,he was never guided by the holy spirit...this here is the peak of hypocrisy
Religion / Re: Type The First Word That You See by butterfly88(m): 9:58am On Oct 02, 2016
cry...babe

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