₦airaland Forum

stockbull:
I've tried to give the necessary advice as regards 'prophecies' to those involved and those cautious-trading-posts i made early this year to make cover on portfolios,however,a reminder to those prophetic bullish posts would only aggravate attacks and the tank of pent-up emotions would easily get busted.here i beg......we learn during the bear and not the bull.many investors would now learn and the learnt ones will be re-learned.let's learn All together.it is well.***no intention to stop the fun anyway***

Character cannot be developed in ease and quiet. Only through experiences of trial and suffering can the soul be strengthened, vision cleared, ambition inspired-Helen Keller

This is the time to know thy sef.

bigass:
You seemingly right time to re-enter may be wrong afterall.

No one can time the market...

ernie4life:
Yea that's why I said make proper inquiries before you invest, note that for KGIF you will be paying the naira equivalent in the currency you wish, and when dividends are paid it will also be in same form, so like carpenter said if for any reason the naira drops you know the implications, though I think it will be hard for you to do investments in a another currency in another company, but you could check out the one carpenter mentioned that deals on dollars, I think it's a good deal. but remember the naira has been a bit stable for a while now

Ernie I just used that Investment as an example...it is not offered to everyone. Took a while to be able to get in myself and the conditions are very different from the everyday fund. It is a medium to long term investment vehicle and as such will not recommend it to people. The rates are not also fantastic when you compare to the MMFs...around 5-7% but good for diversification

ernie4life:
@carpenter you are right, now I made enquires about this situation, the person in charge told me the have foreign accounts for different currencies, this means u need not change to naira before you invest, all you need to do is provide the necessary documents then you tell them which currency and the will give you the account to pay money into, though this is for KGIF I don't know about FBN

I find that strange....if the investment is denominated in naira then be sure they will do a conversion. The problem is not even the conversion per say...it is the rate that will be used that I am concerned about. Unless the investment is denominated in several currencies. Marketers will do anything to get money in most times...then the story will start. In what denomination will dividends be paid? I hope you catch my drift


If they agree to convert at the CBN rate to naira and will pay back in dollars at the CBN conversion rate when exiting...that makes sense but I doubt they will do that.

For the Ivory African Bond I mentioned earlier, the investment is denominated in dollars and dividends are in dollars.

red101:
Thanks a ton for all the information.
I talked to a friend and she said it was too risky. The whole process seems complicated enough anyway.
I will stick with what I have for now and maybe sometime in the future an opportunity will present itself.

All the best!

Meanwhile continue to read more about what is available...try to open an account in Nigeria.

Remember no pain, no gain

ernie4life:
all investment houses are aware of foreign investors so the always have an arrangement for them, FBN will definitely have options for dollar investments, KGIF has options for dollar investments though am not sure how the transaction is done, if you are interested I make the inquires of how it works and post for you.

Yeah you are very correct but the problem with changing with banks (or investment houses) from any currency to naira (USD for example) is that you lose like an average of 5% of the naira equivalent compared with the black market. So lets say eventually she wants to use the money and needs to change it back to dollars after a year...chances are that dollar would have appreciated against the naira (of course the reverse can happen but unlikely or remain the same). I don't have any statistics to work with so lets say the naira loses 3% against the dollar....she then will have been better off investing in the US for 6% than in Nigeria at 12% (4% effective) for that period. This would not have been a problem if you could change via the banks or investment houses back to dollar at the CBN rate but chances are that it will not happen. They are happy to receive but not so happy to give.

I would only transfer dollars for an investment if the investment is denominated in dollars otherwise, will change it with a money changer (by the way, someone runs a foreign exchange biz here...) try this thread https://www.nairaland.com/68738/how-much-did-exchange-dollar/86#26808717

Arbitrade and others have been doing this for a while.

passwelle:
I really do not understand this "paper loss" thing. The Ogbeni bought FBNH at N33 about 7 years ago. It is below N12 now. When will it be a loss? If he asked when it was N28, or last November when FBNH was N17, or last Sept when it was N15, I am sure you would have said the same thing. I do not see the capitalisation of FBNH at N1 trillion anytime soon, so chances he will get back his N33 per share will not be anytime soon (assuming the bonus and dividends will be counted as profit over the 7 year period). Honestly, I am not being sarcastic, I just want to understand this school of thought that believes you have not lost till you sell. It negates the idea of stop losses, and allows a small loss to grow into a huge one.

Your point is valid and i have done that before...in the end you just become a speculator without even knowing it. Of course you will make some money but I personally do not believe it sets a good foundation for anyone that hasn't being doing this for a while (and even the gurus lose big also). You cannot time the market. You can only do your due diligence and hope that all other things fall into place like everything in life....nothing is guaranteed. A stock selling at 50k today can be 1 naira next month or may be delisted...(they still have value, just not being guided by stringent rules from NSE)...that is the chance we all have to take.

There are situations that may warrant getting out without doubt, just like every rule has an exception but no one lives their lives by watching the exceptions.

red101:
@carpenter and ernie,
Thanks for the information.
I have absolutely no clue where to begin. I do not own a Nigerian bank account and have not lived in Nigeria for at least a decade. 10-15% is really high. The average return here in the US is about 6% so I thought it would be a good idea to take advantage of that.
How do I go about opening an account from abroad? Is that even possible?
I just sent an email through the "contact us" link on the FBN website asking for details on how to open a mutual fund account for someone based abroad. I hope I get a response.

Interests rates are quite high here also, it is probably what the experts call "cost of money".

Am not sure if FirstBank will open an account for you but I think GTbank has something like that (you probably don't need to appear)...go to http://gtbank.com// and you will be able to get first hand information (see it as the place where your research truly starts).

FBN capital might actually accept dollars from you as I have transferred to them before but on a seperate Investment vehicle (Ivory African bonds). However, the bank rates and what is available in the open market are not the same ...could be as much as 5% difference with the open market being higher.

Elai147:
It was not sarcasm. @Carpenter actually meant well and gave you a good advice.

Thanks

kotlass:
What if he meant well? Is it not better you assume the best or at least go learn how to decipher real advice instead of casting aspersion on another? To give advice these days sef dey fear person. lolz

Thank you

UNLEASHED:
I can't sense a real advice from a sarcasm, like I said before I'm an absolute novice dealing with stocks and a dormant trader at that, well thank you if it's a genuine advice but if it's not, you shouldn't have replied at all

See me see trouble o! You asked and I gave my opinion and resolve on such matters because I believe FBNH is a good stock to hold and you definitely do not want to sell now unless you desperately need the money. Buying more now will reduce the average cost of your holdings.Am also sure you are not even on 33/share now if all your bonuses have been taken into consideration. You are in this bus already as they say and i will say again, until you sell, you have not lost anything. Write to First Registrars or visit their office am sure you will be glad you did at least before doing anything.

Disclosure: I own FBNH shares and bank with them, Invest with FBN Capital

UNLEASHED:

Hi everyone, I bought Firstbank shares worth a little bit over 500k at NGN33/unit when it went public in 2007 with the aim of leaving it long term, I really don't know much about stocks just that the fund was idle at that time, hence the motive to invest in shares. Most times I even forget I've got some shares somewhere. I just checked on NSE and FBN shares is 11.30 If I'm right? Does that mean I'm at loss? What are my chances of making profit in the long term considering the fact that I bought the shares 7 years ago.

You have not lost unless you sell, if I were you, I would buy more. Also chase down your dividends and bonus over the years.

red101:
Hi Carpenter and Ernie4life, what do you suggest for someone living abroad who knows absolutely nothing about the market in Nigeria but wants to participate.

Ernie has offered the best advice...you need to do some research first.

However, we all are all still learning and please note that I personally do not qualify to give financial advice (unfortunately, the experts have messed up so much that I have decided to do it my own way at my own peril). Knowing what I know now, I would invest my money in an index fund that gives me the flexibility to pull my money out when I need it. If after I feel there is a better investment out there, I will pull it out partially and see how that goes.

I have been with FBN Capital (FBN Money Market Fund) since 2012 and they offer good and reasonable rates (you can read up on their site http://www.fbncapital.com/). InvestmentOne is also a good one, am sure Ernie will be able to guild you with that. There are also others, from ARM, StanbicIBTC

Please note that this is to get you started while you find an investment vehicle that suits your apetite then you can tell us too.

Warning! If it looks or sounds too good to be true run!!! (it is not uncommon to find rates in the region of 10-15% per annum in Nigeria, I would be cautious of any rates above that)

Do you have a Nigerian bank account? This will make life much easier for you to deal with the train you decide to board.

Send a mail to the Investment House and they will take it from there...you can always send scanned forms with signatures these days with a copy your ID or passport. Also, ensure the account you are paying into has the name of the Investment house in question before you pay.

Disclosure: I bank with FBN, own shares in FBNH, invest with FBN Capital

passwelle:
JIJO = Jump in jump out. Short term trades by speculators.
The link below explains the "monkeys". I like the moral and I quote "If you are going to be a fool and pay absurd prices because you think that a greater fool will appear in the future, make sure you buy a goat and not a monkey."
http://www.wanderings.net/notebook/Main/HowStockMarketWorksMonkeysAndGoats

I loved the enhanced version. I will buy chickens, nice supply of eggs. lol

Thanks for sharing

Dexterax:
Myself and a few friends have passed a vote of confidence on this stock as the most valuable JIJO stock my oga.
Please carry on and keep us apprised of your enviable returns, keeping the new NGN 0.01 benchmark in view.

Anxious to see how this will play out. I have a portion of money in penny stocks and I am not selling.

I would want to believe the forces of demand and supply will drive the prices up... if you want to buy 1m units and 1m units is available, good. if 500,000 is available then the price would move at least in layman terms.

Born2berich:
We welcome you to the JIJO club

lol.
Last time I sold a stock was like 2 years plus ago. I am one of those straight jacket guys once I pitch my tent somewhere. I may need to do some rebalancing later but for now am buying.

This house is only happy with bulls...especially with loads of people as monkey hunters here

What happened to shares being on sales and it is that time to get a good bargain.

@passwell

My money has arrived

myjoy08:
Hello Nairaland Family, it is very glaring that emotions are running high when it comes to our preferential treatment of our prioritize stock(s) in NSE. For God sake, let's not be carried away and loose our civility and respect even when we have huge individual difference and personality. If one doesn't like a particular stocks or by mistake you sold out of unknown, let it go and move on. As Oga Franklin... stated yesterday you win some and loose some but in all there are many battle to be won in stock market in terms of making money. Oando, or not Oando, life goes on!!! God bless everyone! God bless Nigeria!

Abi o! Ose jare

@Ernie

I guess this article explains my "nothing is guaranteed" clause.

The NDIC insures money in the bank but sincerely, they do a terrible job at it (only a mere 500,000 naira is insured per account the last time I checked). However, as far as Money Market Funds (MMFs) are concerned, you are at the mercy of companies just like you are if you picked your stocks on your own.

http://consumerist.com/2009/01/03/whats-the-difference-between-money-market-accounts-and-money-market-funds/

A nice article http://www.thesimpledollar.com/personal-finance-101-how-much-money-is-that-investment-really-earning-each-year/

davide470:
But you actually exaggerated the whole thing. They have apologised and it would be best for you to do the same and maybe take down your comments. All is fair in Love and War!

Apologising doesn't take away the fact that this would not have happened if

1. They didn't make a mistake
2. Correct a mistake with another mistake(my opinion).

Don't get me wrong, I think from all I have read on this site Morgan does a great job and I would gladly recommend them to anyone even though I use Cowry Assets. Issues around money have to be taken seriously and if blowing it out of proportion is what gets the job done, then so be it.

I prefer to resolve issues via emails as it shows a trend...unfortunately, some companies have so many people managing the service desk and there is a disconnect between its members. If a customer wants to talk, then he wants to talk...write it down and solve his problem. You can send him a detailed email of agreements and ask him to reply to that email.

This is naija...I don't play with my money and I would not play with anyone's.

MorganCapital:
Hello Stockfrick.
The reason we prefer to respond via email is so that we have proper documentation of the trend of events especially when is concerns customer queries. This makes it possible for any member of the team to pick unresolved customer queries and follow through seamlessly. It is also best to ensure that information to customers are sent via email so that it takes out the miscommunication that may arise through voice communication where individual interpretation to issues may take precedence over the facts.
Finally, it is also a means of checking members of the MorganCapital team to ensure the highest level of professionalism in the discharge of their duties.
That said, The issue was a posting error from our accounts unit while treating your cash withdrawal instruction and was discovered during our inhouse account audit which happens from time to time. The reversal was not a withdrawal from your account but a correction of the error posting made on the account while executing your mandate.
MorganCapital has a zero tolerance for fraud in our transactions with our clients and the visibility and enhanced transparency that our iTrade platform gives to trading clients as well as our reduced brokerage fee is ample testament to our honesty and professionalism.
We apologise for the inconvenience the reversal may have caused you (considering that our market has been bearish for some time now which has made us all edgy). However we think that the exaggerated posting that a large amount was removed from your account is unnecessary and misleading considering that a member of our team spoke to you at various times explaining what actually happened even shortly before your posting.
Thank you for choosing MorganCapital Securities.

Good response.

@morgan. In future maybe it might be best to contact the customer before such action is taken on his account even if it is by email.

Here is the newsletter for September for FBN Money Market Fund

http://www.fbncapital.com/docs/default-source/fbn-money-market-fund-fact-sheets/fbn-money-market-fund-factsheet---september-2014.pdf?sfvrsn=2

passwelle:
Outrageous trade of the day award goes to the individual who put up for sale 1 unit of Unity!

hahahahah!

I have been looking for this article and finally found it.

http://www.thesimpledollar.com/dont-let-your-investments-get-spooked-by-world-events/

Toluway:
You see! War between the bear mongers ant the bull mongers.
Your prayers depend on the quantum of your stake at present.

no wars...just an opinion and it is not based on my stake...it is based on when I intend to cash in gradually.

Toluway:
No vess Passwelle, but I want the bulls back.
Panic waves will start somewhere and spread like wildfire across investors all over the world.

Bulls ke, are you retired?

Abeg make the bears continue ojare... plenty stocks never reach the level i am willing to buy yet.

passwelle:
You wished it, and now you have it. Hope you have loads of cash to cherry pick!

hahahahah! Unfortunately, I have no cash.

Interesting posts and some very nice comments too.

Remember while studying that your most valuable asset is what you know not your certificate or the school you attended. The few jobs I have had are as a results of skills I picked up and some opportunities, not my degree. This advice is not just for Nigerians ... it is the same everywhere, maybe even worse in some countries where you have a trailer load of debts to pay.

It is also a refresher for some of us not to forget where we came from. Thank you poster!

passwelle:
My Oga hen, no be small thing. It also makes sense for me, I am just saying our bourse get as e be no be small. Anyway sha, do remember that hope is not an investment strategy. Na hope carry people enter Jos Breweries, na dat same hope still carry person enter DAAR today .

Abeg no make me laff too much. Na people wey enter those buses know wetin dem dey look for. In sincerity, we all gamble once in a while and I could have been in any of those buses...but they didn't appeal to me then.

FranklinRich:
Once thing I have learnt over the years is to try not to take all this quotes hook,line and sinker. Warren Buffet has never invested in Nigeria and so might not know how we operate here. I do biz in both environments and one thing I have learnt to do is to drop my sanity once I get into muritala Muhammed airport and assume a different personality. It took me a while to learn this but I must say I learnt this the very hard way. For me I will look at both the playing field and scoreboard and even the referee to know when they want to blow their whistle.

Interesting points but all that happens there also...it is the very nature of the market.