₦airaland Forum

daniel2090:
the problems with the health sector in nigeria is almost same as with any other sector in nigeria.And what is the pillar of this problem;"not staying in your zone of responsibilities".
when an individual refuses to stay in the zone of responsibility and specialty in this case,such person loses relevance
A doctor has his own responsibility bestowed upon by virtue of being a doctor,if he wants to stay relevant,he will not encroach into the responsibility of another.infact between specialist doctors,a cardiologist cannot make a diagnosis and decision that supersedes that of a neurologist when it comes to a neuropatient,funny enough both of them are trained to recognize such patient but one is more skilled to manage such patient and vice versa.in best international practice,both specialist doctors do not collect same salary and allowances
In the UK,US and canada,and other advanced countries.,a nurse does not do what a doctor is trained to do ,they are meant to assist the doctors and make the management of the patient easier hence they a crucial role,however a nurse cannot take the role of a medical doctors,hence the financial compensation cannot be thesame.A nurse cannot make a diagnosis for the doctor in a real hospital setting.it is only in nigeria in which a nurse may boast that what a doctor can do,he or she can do.do that in the US and u get jailed for it with your nursing licence revoked.
A pharmacist has a crucial role,but making a diagnosis and managing a patient directly has never been part of it historically.infact in the states and Uk,a pharmacist is prohibited from dispencing some certain drugs if not all except the client has a prescription or written order from a licenced doctors.it is only in nigeria that you will see a pharmacist giving bromocriptine to a young patient with only menorhagia as complaints without a full option history(its a true story,happened fews days ago).well,i am not generalising this error to all pharmacist,but he made an error by not referring to a physician(Obs and gynae precisely) he could have just stayed in his zone of responsibility.
historically,physicians are known to be moving from houses to house doing everything but there was need to improve efficiency and patient management hence the creation of the idea of a nurse and etc.all these are essential in patients managenent but provided they all stay in their zone without interfeering with laydown structure.
nobody is against career profession and advancement in any medical related profession as long as one stay in his or her area of calling
if anybody has any contradiction or different opinion,let him or her find out the roles,responsibilities and financial compensations attached to individual medical professions in the UK,US ,canada and other european countries for an unbiased realistics view.

Honestly, you've said it all. I think it is high time they introduced history of medicine and it's allies to the curriculum of all in health so that people will understand where their roots lie. I also blame some medical elders of yore who never looked over their shoulders in the erroneous belief that their best interest would be protected. Patient welfare was all they cared about until emergence of these cancerous growths bedevilling us today. Some more elderly consultants even consider it an insult that doctors have to be struggling to have their salary relativity preserved when ab initio, doctors and justices were at same pay levels. Today the difference between a Chief Justice and a consultant special grade I is as high as heaven is to earth. It's really disheartening how we have treated ourselves where senior doctors ridicule junior ones in presence of nurses etc. We are like reaping what we sowed over the years. What most observers don't know is that this is a battle for the soul of medical profession. Losing it is not an option and this is the reality everybody else would have to assimilate however unpleasant and hurtful it sounds.

addey44:
Non-physicians have been heading health ministries since time immemorial. Is that, however, what we are talking about here? Why not address the proper issues.

Kwara state has been appointing non-doctors as commissioners over the years. The records are there for anyone interested. Why this is being made another 'Hotoro' at this material time is what is funny and suspicious. What has their appointment done differently from what obtains in other states? What is grand about healthcare delivery in Kwara state? Truth is when the appointees get their on the back of their struggle, everything further down the line is personal.

ruffhandu:
Lol. Keep fanning your ego. Every profession is distinct. You cannot be the drummer and the dancer at the same time .
Everyone should maintain his, even you Bro.

Just missed it there ore. People can drum and dance simultaneously. It's not about ego, it's standard and Nigeria wouldn't be an exception. It's not everything we can 'Nigerianise'.

dealslip:
There is something odd about the look of these placard bearers. The all look strange and stunned.

Haha haha. Walahi... stunned is euphemised term for their countenance.

CircleOfWilis:
go get urs...

https://www.rcr.ac.uk/public-and-media/common-medical-terms/radiology-faqs

It can be annoying when people refuse to take to corrections. Half knowledge is really bad and that unfortunately is the bane of Johesuites.

stasius:
Privatization!

Privatization!!

Privatization!!!

Privatize the health sector! Simple...
Health will be very expensive and the poor may not afford it after this but sanity will be restored!
Privatize the health sector!!!

Yeah! It will be very expensive but with universal health insurance coverage, the burden will be lessened on patients and the system will function better.

donald197:
Adopt YAHAYA AHMED report,or choose technocrats to go n see what obtains in UK,US ,AUSTRALIA and other developed countries. If both parties are not satisfied yet,privatize the health sector.

Yayale Ahmed's presidential committee did a thorough job and consulted widely, even as far as studying what obtains in developed parts of the world but as usual, it was not allowed to see the light of the day because some parties would not agree and it got sacrificed on the alter of politics cum corruption. How long should this briggande be allowed? It has become a cancer and needs being excised. The pay comparisons you have there will never be accepted even though it's what obtains in those 'sane climes' they tout so much.

mfm04622:
So you want to earn same amount with doctors? Do you think it is fair for you a lab technician that spent 3 years in school and a doctor that spent 6 to earn the same?
When it comes to administration of hospitals, yes doctors should not be head of hospitals. Doctors don't have any advantage over other professionals when it comes to managing hospitals.

Some studies have demonstrated hospitals ran by doctors to be better managed than those they didn't run. The clamour for headship by Johesu is born out of greed. They also want their hands in their imaginary 'cookie jar'. I can't even imagine that happening in Nigeria cos it will never happen. Their services are important and complimentary but that is what it is-ancilliary. The earlier that is realised, the better for the system. The shouts for government to give it to administrators is their plan B when it became obvious their dreams will not materialise. Like one of the women before King Solomon, their philosophy is 'if I can't have it, so should you also'.

fumebi:
Are doctors and other medical staffs in private hospitals having this problem? Are private hospitals on strike?
Let's the public hospitals be privatised.

Exactly! We don't have this kind of nonsense there because they all know their places and the doc is the BOSS! NMA is for doctors and the other co-workers have their individual associations but because of the fact that they do not match individually, the need to gang-up under the amorphous JOHESU to hold Nigerians to ransom arose. Government should simply outsource pharmacy and lab services and most of these problems will fizzle out. Alternatively, govt should just hands-off health. Privatise and let's see an investor that would keep the senior cadres of these allied professions who spend greater part of the day gossiping or aimlessly roaming the whole space in his or her employ.

nobilis:
LOL.

First of all, you quoted the wrong post to say this your rubbish.

See how you are just feeding yourself and your followers with deliberate misinformation.

Maybe you need to go and consult your pharmacy professors in school.

In Nigeria, pharmacists are not allowed to prescribe medications.
Only doctors are allowed to prescribe medications.

You can carry your head and hit it on the wall as many times as you please.
That is how it is.

You've not finished doing your own job and duty and you're trying to claim one of the duties of doctors.
Tomorrow you guys will say doctors are suppressing you when it is obvious that you guys are the ones overstepping your boundaries.

Truth is they feel incomplete. This talk about being rated second class is out of inferiority complex. The craze to append 'Dr' to their names is born out of this. Why aren't they proud and contented with whoever they chose to be? There are job descriptions they do not want to follow and that is one of the problems. There's no way a patient in a hospital will say first port if call is the pharm, labman and so on except where such an individual is unlearned. It's a tall dream which will NEVER happen.

nobilis:
Hahahahahaha.
So much bile is in your veins.
In everything I said, this was the only one you picked up.

Whether it is Water Resources or Fire Resources, in the academic profession, the professor is at the head.

For example, in a university, you don't make a non-professor a Vice Chancellor when there are professors around.

Capisce?

Please try and clear the excess bile in your system before it becomes something else.

Even when a professor is not around, one would necessarily have to be IMPORTED whether any other person on ground likes it or not. That is the unwritten rule and those in that environment know they have to fall in line.

ruffhandu:
You need some education. Professor at the head of what? A professor of water resources can only be head of water resources, not biological sciences.

You really need to learn to think.

Drop your ego. He is only telling you that in an academic sphere, professors top. In health setting, it's the doc even when it hurts so much.

IamaNigerianGuy:
As an exercise in spotting logical inconsistencies, read over your contribution again.

Haha haha.... real assignment

BushDoctor123:
I thought Doctors are suppose to diagonise an ailment while the phermacist prescribe, but in nigeria the doctors have taken the roles of the phermacist while leaving them with dispensing alone. In sane clime its not done that way.

You are by all means a bushdoctor.

drjay1:
To blame the Nigerian doctor for drug addiction shows a very shallow way of reasoning.
The problem with us as a nation boils down to hatred. Things will only get better when we see beyond our selfish gains and look for practical ways of solving problems.

I wouldn't expect anything less from a pharmacist of his kind as not all pharmacists reason the way the author does. Some have better grasp of issues and control of their tantrumic tendencies.

Stephaustin:
There is nothing one cannot see in an epistle written by a person guided by hatred and useless sentiments.

Doctors worsened drug abuse among Nigerian youths?

That some doctors misbehave does not mean all doctors misbehave; that is fallacy.
You cannot tell me that all pharmacists, lab scientists, nurses and other health workers are saints. Let each sector and individual be probed and the result will be very amazing.

Talking about NAFDAC being headed by a pharmacist as appropriate is also fallacious. NAFDAC does not regulate only drugs, but also food, cosmetics, medical devices, chemicals and packaged water. Are pharmacists also experts in these fields?

I just pity the poor masses that will always bear the brunt of this mess.

Please note that I am neither a doctor nor a medical student before you accuse me of sentiments.

You just demonstrated how an open mind analyses issues. Commendable

nobilis:
I'm still waiting to see how doctors led to the abuse of Tramadol and Codeine by youths.

I feel disappointed. I had expected him to be explicit but as usual succeeded in moving in circles and ended pushing in our faces another beautiful 'trash'.

Not only doctored but also nursed and pharmasied. Yeye people.

phase1:
Stop trying to deceiving Nigerians, most physicians are in their private hospitals as the JOHESU strike rages on because they cannot function without JOHESU staffs. The consulting rooms are empty but NMA is releasing fake press releases and paying their friends in the media to write that the 'hospitals are working' and insinuate that Johesu professionals are 'not important' while patients are dying.

Anyway, the truth will prevail.If the Ministry of health (ministry of physicians) which is actually an appendage of NMA likes, they can refuse to pay JOHESU staffs for 10 years but common sense will prevail. That strike will not end until all previous agreements are implemented and new ones considered actively.

Johesu will play that politics you've been playing for decades till they get what they want.

JOHESU have suffered so much injustices over the decades, things can never be worse than it already is so they have no where to go but up.

The strike goes on.

Yes, aluta continua. With all pleasure.

I wouldn't have known he played her if she didn't call him out on media. How has it now helped her course? More damage I'll say.

Ang88:
I used the word "about'',meaning estimated value... I'm a registered nurse, working in government hospital, so I know this things

Yeah, that still doesn't excuse this as untrue and fallacious.

Ang88:
Some of the people commenting here are student doctors... Student doctors don't touch patients in the ward. They only come to the ward to learn during wardround... House officers to consultants are the people who touch patients... About 96percent of student doctors don't know anything about practicals... About 50percent of house officers don't know practicals...the hard truth is their biggest reality...talking from experience

Student doctors.... don'ttouch patients?... 50% house officers don't know practicals? Where did you get the statistics? We are in deep shit this country, walahi.

danilmo:
pls u self retaliate by employing auxiliary doctor if ur opportune to have a hospital..

lol..

am a medic and the only people I ll love to employ in my hospital are the med lab or rather microbiologist.. other sector na trained ordinary sales boy who can dispense drug in place of a pharmacist, a trained lady as nurse,

employ professional nurse and pharmacist say wetin wen I can actually train cheap ones myself.. hian ,


Just thesame thing my brother do in his hospital.

Hahaha.... 'auxiliary doctor!' got me reeling.

Isacisse:
Beautifully Scripted and also a Beautiful Nonsense.
The “patient” and not the doctor is the primary target, who y’all are here to serve.
If you want to talk about success in management, The Pharmacist should boast of that laurel but funny enough I have never seen them do.
They develop a product for the patient,
Educate you on the Indications, adverse effects, dosage but you claim you are the point of Call alone.
Are you blind or you intentionally see with your head. Look at the Billionaires in Pharmaceutical Industries, funding research for you people just to have a comprehensive data to cater for your need in the hospital to sever the Patient Properly.
You just feel threatened and assume their is Competition or someone coming for your job.
What I’m against is,You Doctors of Med & Surgery should stick to your thing and allow competent hands take over the management of the hospital and Ministry of health. You’re all fraud amassing wealth for yourself, and shouting no money every time. CMD’s are the greatest thieves, that’s why they don’t want anyone to come close to the administration to understand what they are doing.
Grants from Multinationals, Donations, Help from NGO’s, FG Allocation, and Internally generates revenue and you monkeys still blame the FG for the Bad State of the Health Sector. ���
These thieves if they are going on strike, take advantage of people’s sympathy and be shouting bad state and poor working conditions.
Mad people that don’t know Management. Common call a cleaner to clean there place of work, they can’t. Who has ever been to any General or Teaching hospital emergency wards. These monkeys their don’t know when to call a cleaner to do their job talkless of their supposedly professional colleagues which they assume to be enemy and they claim leader. ���
Leader my foot, yeye dey worry all of una.
These people requested for a 20% increment and you monkies want to die ��.
Armed robbers if it’s sure for anyone of you here. I challenge you show us your pay slips and see if ordinary graduate on the street will not feel like committing suicide. You just blackmail the government and take advantage of everything.
Scrap Hospital na and let’s see who will suffer You or the Patient.
Monkeys be thinking they are the most important ��. Let it ring Patient Patient Patient first and not you. Get your fact straight. International best practice allows the Nurse to see Outpatient, Pharmacist Outpatient, but laye laye you want to do all and at the end you can’t. You will now be giving lie lie fact 10,000 doctors to 1 patient Barawo. A consultant which is very easy to attain if you have money � will see 10 patients and motherfucker will leave until next week but will be collecting about 700k and above, a scam he can replicate in many places and get away with it.

God will judge you, if you play the patient card here. If not incompetence, why are you scared.
Architect, Engineers( Civil, Electrical etc) work with everyone to erect a beautiful edifice. I have nerve heard of the part where anyone claimed Superiority over the other or insist on working alone without the other but you monkeys in the health sectors won’t let the masses have peace. God will judge you all

Beautiful trash.

hydeka:
No be small local champions o

These guys don't know that we cover their Bleep ups in front of patients when they write all those nonsense prescriptions...and most of them just copy the consultant. If you leave them alone to work, na wahala be that. Abeg, let me not open their nyash here

I really respect the few who are honest enough to ask for assistance from other professionals. Those are the real doctors.

Open their yansh. People are interested in that.

dechriscool:
The gang up against doctors is not only by allied health workers but also by some Nigerians. I did a post about how JOHESU members beat up Doctors at NAUTH just to registered their graviances against doctors in course o f this their strike .That post didn't see the day light.

However,the disparity in salary structure between doctors and JOHESU members can't be overemphasized.Read the statement of facts below to guard on the activities in the hospital

THE PATIENT COMES TO THE HOSPITAL TO SEE THE DOCTOR.

There are three group of people in the Hospital worldwide;

1. Doctor
2. Patients
3. Hospital support staff.

-A patient comes to a medical emergency unit rushed by his relatives.
-The DOCTOR sends for his file/folder to be retrieved by the MEDICAL RECORDS STAFF.
-The DOCTOR takes history from PATIENT and examines the PATIENT.
-The DOCTOR makes a diagnosis (or set of diagnosis-differential diagnosis).
-The DOCTOR asks the PHARMACIST to supply the drugs for the particular disease.
-The DOCTOR asks the NURSE to administer the drugs.
-The DOCTOR asks the PATIENT to go to Radiology department to do an X-RAY/CT-SCAN.
-The DOCTOR in the Radiology department (RADIOLOGIST) asks the RADIOGRAPHER to do the X-ray. The DOCTOR in the Radiology department (RADIOLOGIST) interprets the X-ray and writes a report to be taken to the DOCTOR in the Emergency.
-The DOCTOR in the Emergency unit uses the X-ray report to further treat the patient.
-The DOCTOR sends the PATIENT to the laboratory to do some tests.
-The DOCTOR in the laboratory (PATHOLOGIST) asks the LABORATORY SCIENTIST or LABORATORY TECHNICIAN to do the test or do the test himself if necessary.
The DOCTOR in the laboratory (PATHOLOGIST) interprets the report and sends the patient back to the doctor in the emergency.
-The DOCTOR evaluates the patient and asks for more drugs from the PHARMACY for the NURSE to administer.
-The DOCTOR admits the patient to the ward if patient is not good to go or discharges the patient if he is good.
-THE DOCTOR in the ward keeps on seeing the patient and evaluating his needs. THE DOCTOR calls for the assistance of the NURSE, PHARMACIST, LABORATORY SCIENTIST/TECHNICIAN, RADIOGRAPHER when the need arises.
But there is always a need for the DOCTOR to be in CONTACT with the progress of the patient.
-THE DOCTOR DISCHARGES the PATIENT home or CERTIFIES him dead as the case may be.

IT BEGINS WITH THE DOCTOR and PATIENT from admission and ends with DOCTOR and PATIENT on discharge from the hospital.

1. DOCTORS WORLDWIDE are LEADERS of the health sector in the best of centers.
-Google LIST OF BEST HOSPITALS IN THE WORLD.
A list of many hospital according to ranking would come up.
-Take the first 5, or 10, or 20 hospitals ONE BY ONE.
-For each hospital Google it's leadership.
-All would show you that the doctor is the head.
The CEO/CHIEF EXECUTIVE OFFICER of all the hospitals have MD or MBBS as their basic qualification. (Most of these doctors have no any other non-medical qualification).

PLEASE GOOGLE FOR YOURSELF
-THE BEST HOSPITALS in the world.
-Then LEADERSHIP OF EACH HOSPITAL.

2.)DOCTORS ARE PAID FAR BETTER THAN OTHER SUPPORT STAFF WORLDWIDE.
This pay gets far different when the DOCTOR is a SPECIALIST: CONSULTANT (UK/INDIA) or an ATTENDING PHYSICIAN (USA).

Google the best hospitals in the world and the salary of the workers.

Google for yourself.
Do not be fed with lies.

3.) CAREER PROGRESSION for DOCTORS.
Doctors have two pathways for progression in Nigeria:
i. NORMAL CIVIL SERVICE where you are promoted to the next grade after every 3years.
ii. POSTGRADUATE MEDICAL EDUCATION, where you enroll into residency and is only promoted after rigorous academic and practical training and passing of professional examinations.
After NYSC the doctor pays heavily to write an exam called primaries. After the primaries he/she undergo extensive training as a REGISTRAR and after 3-5years write the PART 1 exams to become a SENIOR REGISTRAR. After another 3-5years he writes another exam to become a FELLOW/CONSULTANT. Each of PART 1 and 2 exams advance the doctor only one grade level (e.g Part 1 exam after 3-5 years moves a DOCTOR from grade 12 to 13. Part 2 after another 3-5moves a doctor from grade 13-14).
The pass rate of these exams generally is between 10-30%.
Its difficult to progress through the postgraduate pathway. You may spend more than 6years without promotion.

GOOGLE THE TRUTH.

Great bit I doubt this would make sense in a senseless world.

utenwuson:
doctors are mad... this is exactly what is playing out in NASU and ASUU, without the nurse, the lab scientists, the register and all other health related staff, doctors are crap, what's doctors problem with a body agitating for their own increment and other benefit when they no longer belong to same body? go to hospitals now and you see why doctors are useless without this people.... doctors prescription is what nurses use to administer, we all need each other Abeg.

You are right to an extent but you started with abuse and that had an effect on any sense you tried making. Doctors need other support staff but then each person needs to know his or her place in scheme of things. Health care can't be left rudderless. And to correct t your impression that doctors can't work in this condition, you obviously don't know to what extent JOHESU has gone and is still going to ensure that patients are not seen by doctors. Good thing however is that this has not deterred the doctors. Clinics run, emergency services are rendered and steps will be taken to ensure scope of care is broadened so hapless Nigerians would be spared of the unnecessary pain this drama has brought.

frankpro27:
I tell u. They knw nothing. If only pharmacists will start documenting their medication errors, all these problems wud be put to rest.

Funny. Who asked them not to 'document'? At least that would also add to their schedule if you think what they do now needs some upgrade.

SLYX:
All this nonsense typing, is it about the foolish Nigerian doctors that know nothing. Why do you think President Buhari had to travel for medical check up outside. It's crystal clear that Nigerian doctors are not worth it at all. I have first hand experience of how doctors in teaching hospitals managed my mom's health almost to death. Just one visit to a Turkish hospital, all their wrong diagnosis were revealed. And today my mom is alive and strong. I rather die than submit myself to be treated by a Nigerian doctor

Nigerian doctors are not good yet they do well abroad. Perhaps those Turkish docs are the ones managing the health of millions of Nigerians. Not really surprised. Sentiments and emotions sway out reasoning most times.

AbuadStudent:
Nowhere in the world is it done, that doctors are paid the same as other health care workers. This johesu are asking for impossible demands.

They know anything goes in Nigeria when you know what buttons to press.

obi4eze:
NMA are very greedy set of people.

I'm so happy to know that the general public is becoming aware of the greediness of these set of people.

No. NMA is not greedy. It is the other way round and yes, people have been misinformed and swayed by lies. This time truth will be told and as many as would want to remain in lies are free to do so.

Elueme:
I wish u could digest the NMA position before posting this crap..
NMA is not against pay rise for anybody but ask that relativity be sacrosanct according to international best practice.. A doctor with several academic battering and fellowship struggle cannot be on same salary scale with a nurse or pharmacist.. forget the age and all, the quality of service isn't same irrespective of how old one has been in service. We must learn to respect professionalism in this country.
Johesu was formed to hang up against the doctors in the health sector because they feel with their strength they can arm twist the government.. Some of it's demands ate briddled with ego, jealousy and desire to reap where one didn't sow. The door is wide open for any who wishes to study medicine. No following short cut, go back to school and be accorded same status.

The public are lazy when it comes to checking facts and that is what JOHESU propaganda machine has been feeding on. I didn't even see this your post before posting mine cos I wouldn't have wasted my time. People have been fed lots of lies and I tell you it would take more to undo the brainwashing. For once, government have to stand up and tame these unbridled brigandry and 'longthroat' disposition of JOHESU. Doctors are not against 'small' increment of salaries. Every worker in Nigeria has been agitating for pay rise given the fact that indices have changed and we are in a new reality. What doctors are saying is that pay relativity health workers is 'sacrosant'.