₦airaland Forum

FiveFootNinja:
FOR YOUR PURPOSES, maybe confusing counter-intuitive with illogical is convenient.

FROM YOUR MACRO PERSPECTIVE, maybe anything beyond secondary school physics looks like magic.

But in the realm of critical and rigorous thinking, which is where this conversation is supposed to be taking place, they will continue to remain fundamentally different concepts. And that's that.

Know your cognitive limitations.

Well, NL is a layman's forum. It is not a place of "critical and rigorous thinking". "Illogical" serves us just fine here and conveys the meaning we want it to convey. No need to keep repeating a long word like "counterintuitive"!

FiveFootNinja:
I'll say it again and again, those two words are more different than you think. And that's that. If you can't see how your argument isn't logical, then the joke's on you. Sadly.

For our purposes here on this thread both words work just fine. We're just trying to convey that QM does not follow our everyday macro logical pattern NOT that it lacks logic in it's own quantum world!

FiveFootNinja:
Honestly I only shared that link to make a rhetorical point that you should go there and argue with actual physicists since you're so sure of your claims. I was half-serious, and also half-joking. But I like how you cherry picked a single comment from that thread that seemingly supports your claim but ignored the actual punchline of my reference and let it fly swiftly over your head. Lol.

For the avoidance of any doubt, I'll address the comment you lifted from that thread.

The guy in your screenshot compared quantum tunneling to a low resolution game rendering. Personally I don't think his analogy is accurate because if you actually take the time to read on quantum tunneling, you'll learn that it's not necessarily a glitch in the way that guy described it. It is a mathematically precise phenomenon predicted and confirmed through experiments already carried out. Read the subheading in this wiki titled "Mathematical Discussion":
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_tunnelling#:~:text=In%20physics%2C%20quantum%20tunnelling%2C%20barrier,of%20a%20finite%20potential%20well.

I'll reiterate again, and as I've just shown you, quantum tunneling is clearly rooted in mathematical formalisms. So you can make the argument that it is counterintuitive since it defies the notions of classical physics, but it is NOT illogical.

Obviously I expect you to come back once again and bicker some more without a convincing counterargument.

You keep trying to play this your word game of "illogical" vs. "counterintuitive". Intuition follows logic, doesn't it? Or is it just based on nothing?
Something can be logical from one perspective but illogical from another. I DON'T KNOW WHY YOU CAN'T GET THAT!!
QM is not confined to maths!
QM can never be logical from our everyday macroscopic world perspective!!

FiveFootNinja:
Which one is "AT CORE" again? I hope you're not trying to backpedal with style again? Don't forget your claim was "the universe is illogical". You never included this caveat about tiniest particles when I mentioned you the first time. Plus, even at quantum levels, there are discernable patterns and probabilities. If there weren't patterns and logical underpinnings, then quantum computers shouldn't have existed in the first place. 💁🏽

Illogic might not be an inherent characteristic of the universe afterall. It might only just be a characteristic of your argument in this topic. 🤧

There you go again sir.
Now re-write the above post using:
FROM OUR MACRO PERSPECTIVE and we'll see whose argument has illogic as characteristic!

FiveFootNinja:
Uhhmmm... You?

By repeatedly conflating the two words, you ARE implying that they mean the same thing. It's not rocket science, m'lady.



Let's try this one more time.

COUNTER-INTUITIVE: When something happens that goes against our intuitions or expectations, because it directly contradicts our daily experience and how we view and understand the world.

ILLOGICAL: No logical coherence or meaning. Something you literally can't make sense of. If it's impossible to make sense of something, then it's illogical.

Here's a hint: it's possible to make sense of QM.

Anyone who isn't thicker than a bag of rice can tell that these two concepts aren't identical. If you're having difficulties telling the difference, then what can I say? The truth is in the pudding. 🚶🏽🚶🏽🚶🏽

Are you just pretending to be obtuse sir?
The most important parts of my statement are:
FOR OUR PURPOSES HERE and
FROM OUR MACRO PERSPECTIVE

Now rewrite your post using those and we'll see who is thicker than a bag of rice!

LordReed:
Fraud. You claimed you could make anything happen just by thinking about it but when faced with a challenge you've had to modify your position over and over again just so you don’t have actually demonstrate anything. That is full on fraud. LoLz.

I'm done with you, fraud. Bwahahahahahaha!

You are the fraud sir. Quite obviously.
Why do you keep LYING that I said "anything"? Please show where I said "anything". Bwahahahahahaha!

FiveFootNinja:
Madam if you want to play with words, at least show some finesse about it and stop zigzagging around without a point. Do you think you've said anything profound yet? I'm still waiting for a coherent argument from you because none of what you've said so far has demonstrated the point that you've been desperately trying to make.

And I don't know why you keep stating the obvious. You said "No two different words can mean the same thing in all circumstances". Okay? But I never said anything to the contrary, so who is arguing this with you? 🤨

Yes it is a fact that words have distinct meanings and if anything, you're the only one ignoring those distinctions to prop up your failed position. Your choice of words so far have been sloppy at best, and have only served to obfuscate this conversation even further from when we started it. 🤦🏽

Now she's telling me QM is probabilistic, like anybody following this discussion wasn't already aware. I never forgot about that but well done all the same, Miss Obvious. 🥱

When you're done shining your torchlight under the bright sun for no reason, maybe you can turn it off and make me understand how QM being probabilistic negates what I said about counterintuitive and illogical having two different connotations.

Go ahead. Make my day.

Because you keep repeating the stupid statement, "counterintuitive and illogical don't mean exactly the same thing." Who said they did?!
Again, FOR OUR PURPOSES HERE, we want a word that means "makes no SENSE or does not follow a LOGICAL pattern from our macro perspective"! Can you please tell us how ILLOGICAL does not fit that bill.
Also tell us how it is logical that a particle would appear on the other side of a barrier it shouldn't pass through or why something applied to a particle has same effect on a particle light years away. How are these logical from our everyday perspective??

LordReed:
Yes so repeat the magic. Or are you the fraud you trying hard, but failing, not to look like.

Christ is God incarnet. I am not. I don't possess his faith.
Always trying to confuse apples and oranges. Take QM which is highly probabilistic, how can you insist you know for sure whether a particle actually passed through a barrier it shouldn't be able to pass through??!

That a particle APPEARS to have passed through a barrier it shouldn't pass through doesn't mean it indeed passed through it! NO ONE has any way of knowing if it actually passed through the barrier or something else was happening! Just like entanglement, we dont know for sure what's going on! See one physicist's take below.
BTW I read in that site our man keeps citing, quote, "QM is actually magical in relation to the classical context".
These things are MAGICAL from our macro perspective. That's what "magical" means!

LordReed:
LoLz. Just use your mind and think to water to turn to wine. Isn't that your advanced repeatable technology that is indistinguishable from magic. Make it happen! Bwahahahahahaha!

Christ did just that

LordReed:
LoLz. Oh you certainly are and you've done a stunningly good job of it. Bwahahahahahaha!

Keep on bwahaha like a lun till they come and bundle you to Yaba left😆

Gabrielshow24:
Leave the fool!
Jesus is scholarly agreed to be real!!!

Only fools hold onto conspiracy theories such as Roman invention of Jesus, when there are plethora of proof against that.

He just wants to continue in his delusion!
Let him be, these are the kind of people that the "great delusion" is cast over!!!

When Jesus is ready, if he wills👀, he will save him.
If not leave him to his Delusions!!!🤧

Isn't just amazing what people would believe? Same Jesus that said the Emperor was no god at all but a lowly sinner in need of salvation like everybody else! That's the same Jesus invented by him!

LordReed:
LoLz. Just use your mind and think to water to turn to wine. Isn't that your advanced repeatable technology that is indistinguishable from magic. Make it happen! Bwahahahahahaha!

Go argue with placebo effect😆

(Drunkeness is a disease!😅)

sonmvayina:
Jesus is fiction. The earlier you know this, the better for you.
Every culture have their own creation myth. The stories are all lies, but the messages are the same.
Man = God's spirit+ body from the earth.

You can't actually read the NT and Bible in general and think Jesus is fiction. Impossible. People that produced such profound teachings would produce other works. Where are they? Plus Jesus is alive in people's lives today, and the only name demons fear in spiritual warfare. Explain that

sonmvayina:
The heart of man is desperately wicked.

It's need to be refined. Only the Torah can do it.

So you see, pure evil exists - evil for evil's sake

sonmvayina:
Well, it is about her and her son. Most apparitions are usually her.
It's all paganism.
All other denomination are also being mislead.

Yet they invented him. See how you're not making any sense?

johnw47:
he is more than that
you mighten have seen him mock Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit, and the mother of Christ, etc. etc. etc.
calling Jesus Christ a asse wipe, and calling the Holy Spirit; the holey spirit


he is lost just like other blasphemers of the Holy Spirit here

Unbelievable. You're right, he's much worse than Max. No comparison

LordReed:
2023 is not a long time. I'm seriously thinking this is another moniker of PoliteActivist. This is how insane that one is too.

Whatever floats your boat. I'm not the one making a fool of myself

LordReed:
Yes so turn water to wine, lets have a party. LoLz.

This one is obsessed with turning water into wine. You must be an alcoholic of sorts. No wonder!😆

FiveFootNinja:
By the way, since you believe the universe is SOOOO illogical, then can you explain how we're having this conversation at this very moment? Or better yet, can you tell us how quantum computers were built or how quantum field theory was developed?

AT CORE (tiniest particles which make up everything) the universe is ILLOGICAL (does not make sense nor follow predictable pattern - from our macro perspective!)

FiveFootNinja:
You're describing quantum tunneling, which is not illogical at all because it follows directly from the principles of Schrodinger's equation. Therefore, it's mathematically consistent. However what we expect about the interaction solid objects (intuition) might not be fulfilled on a quantum level. Our common sense simply can not be applied in the realm of QM. Once again, your ignorance of QM rears it's ugly head.

But if you still think I'm blabbing, maybe you can register on this forum here and share your views on this thread where the mathematics behind quantum tunneling is being discussed. Let us know how that turns out for you:
https://www.physicsforums.com/threads/understanding-quantum-tunneling-is-the-schrodingers-equation-the-key.651382/

See him talking mathematical jargon to confuse people!😆
Bottom line, the particle APPEARS to have passed through a barrier it shouldn't pass through! No one has any way of knowing if it actually passed through the barrier or something else. I read in that site you posted quote "QM is actually magical in relation to the classical context".
See below, one physicist's view

FiveFootNinja:
Alright, now you're just becoming obtuse. Me bringing up economics was to demonstrate the fallacy of your thinking that logic and intuition are similar and interchangeable. You claimed the analogy was false but you actually didn't show why it's false, you just keep repeating yourself stubbornly. 😒

The only thing I can parse from your argument is that you're incapable of considering ideas or concepts beyond what you're used to. Counterintuition and illogic are not the same. If you took this argument to somewhere like a philosophy forum where they deal with the etymology of words, I swear they'd rip you apart, no offense.

The reason we think QM is "illogical" is because we're limited by our everyday experiences. It's not a flaw in the foundational logical systems that base QM. The only thing illogical here is your complete aversion to this clearly stated distinction.

You are the one being obtuse sir - forgeting QM is probabilistic. FOR OUR PURPOSES HERE, we want a word that means "makes no SENSE or does not follow a PREDICTABLE pattern from our macro perspective"!! Both "counterintuitive" and "illogical" fit the bill, so we use the shorter word!
No two differently-spelt words mean the same thing in all circumstances!!

LordReed:
LoLz. Now we switch to quote mining. Meanwhile I'm waiting for your repeatable advanced technology of turning water to wine. Bwahahahahahaha!

I think your problem is that you don't understand the meaning of the word "magic".
The quote from your fellow atheist ought give you a clue:
“Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic"

Just unbelievable! This Islam religion eh!

Lesson: Be extremely careful who you accept food from!

He'd be ok. Pay off a lawyer and judge, get option of fine

MartinsD12:
From the video here , one can see clearly he is not boxing healthy what do I mean he is not well at all if you watch the body movement you will see it , my question is why didn't he go for medical checkup before going for this boxing match because from this video he is staggered

You're talking nonsense. People have collapsed and died doing the most mundane things. There was that man giving a speech and he collapsed and died!

LordReed:
LoLz. Now we switch to quote mining. Meanwhile I'm waiting for your repeatable advanced technology of turning water to wine. Bwahahahahahaha!

Back to the beginning:
The universe is a magical place my dear. You just have to open your eyes to see it. It's all magic

tctrills:
I know, he is one of those kids that read one small book and think they have gotten all the knowledge in all the books in the universe. He has a lot to learn

Couldn't have said it better. Thanks 4 putting him in his place

tctrills:
You are using the scientific method to answer questions on Adam and Eve. And you call another person a slowpoke. This is the clear case of the pot calling a kettle black.

No mind am.
Arthur C. Clarke who said “Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic" is a raving atheist like him!

tctrills:
You just claimed that you were using the scientific method now you are running away from your point.
You kids come out acting intelligent until you are not.

PSEUDO-scientific method! He doesn't know everything about QM can be classied as magic

LordReed:
LoLz. Is.that why none of you have walked on water because it is repeatable? Please when next are you turning water to wine I want a good party. Bwahahahahahaha!

Arthur C. Clarke who said that was a raving ATHEIST!
Here's the quote again:
“Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic"

LordReed:
Magic is fantasies charlatans like you like to talk about. Quantum entanglement is repeatable and highly predictable science.

Magic is also repeatable, doesn't make it any less magic.

Reminds if this quote from Arthur C. Clarke:
"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic"

LordReed:
It is logical because it is repeatable with the same result every time.

That's NOT the meaning of logical. Find your dictionary. "Logical" for our purposes means "makes SENSE or follows a PREDICTABLE pattern from our macro perspective"!!!