₦airaland Forum

LordReed:
So they are illogical because you define them to be illogical. SMH.

If they were illogical we would not know how to find them but we found and can even predict their characteristics. Stop saying what you don't know and refining things to fit your kookie jargons.

You are the one talking foolish sir.
1+1=11 is illogical in our normal world BUT quite logical in the binary world

FiveFootNinja:
You didn't really address anything though. Everything you captured in the screenshots are underpinned by rigorous logical formalisms. None of them strictly violate logic.

Logic and intuition are two entirely separate things. QM defies common sense, but that doesn't strip it of its logical underpinnings at all.

I think you missed this my post:

Both "illogical" and "counterintuitive" describe something that doesn't make sense or follow a predictable pattern. All these are counter to logic of our macro world (normal meaning of logic, as I emphasized). Of course anything can be logical within it's own context, but that's not what we're talking about. You may create a system of logic based on the quantum world and have all these logical and even intuitive, but we're talking from perspective of our macro world!

sonmvayina:
FYI: Jesus is a Roman Catholic invention.
So what's next?

So how come Roman Catholics don't emphasize Jesus at all, but instead Mary and others? It is the other denominations that emphasize Christ and His words

sonmvayina:
And I analyze the situation and take the best possible decision.

Meaning what? You really don't believe that pure evil exists? How about those who ask people to commit murder for no reason, and they'll give them money?

sonmvayina:
Nah
What about the Indian and Chinese one...or even the Yoruba or Igbo one....
They are all different...but the messages are consistent.

Non of those was cited by God incarnate as historical fact

LordReed:
None of these are illogical unless you don't know the meaning of the word.

Both "illogical" and "counterintuitive" describe something that doesn't make sense or follow a predictable pattern. All these are counter to logic of our macro world (normal meaning of logic, as I emphasized). Of course anything can be logical within it's own context, but that's not what we're talking about. You may create a system of logic based on the quantum world and have all these logical and even intuitive, but we're talking from perspective of our macro world!

FiveFootNinja:
Like Burna Boy said: "you go dey explain tire, because no evidence". 🚶🏽🚶🏽🚶🏽

Evidence abound of people who changed their conditions by changing their thoughts!

FiveFootNinja:
As for the highlighted, have you considered that the universe is actually logical, except it doesn't confirm to our own expectations? There's actually a big difference between "counterintuitive" and "illogical". Basically there's a difference between common sense and formal logic. It just occured to me that you might be confusing those two concepts.

By the way, quantum mechanics is rooted in logical systems apparently, so that's another one of your claims being shot down.
Read: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_logic

Ok, I've now read it and your link. I think you're going to confuse yourself and the "audience" delving into mathematics.
I was going to use the word "counterintuitive" but I decided that intuition usually follows logic and what is counterintuitive is very likely to also be illogical, so no need using such a long word!
All these points below about QM are both counterintuitive and illogical (it's normal meaning)

FiveFootNinja:
As for the highlighted, have you considered that the universe is actually logical, except it doesn't confirm to our own expectations? There's actually a big difference between "counterintuitive" and "illogical". Basically there's a difference between common sense and formal logic. It just occured to me that you might be confusing those two concepts.

By the way, quantum mechanics is rooted in logical systems apparently, so that's another one of your claims being shot down.
Read: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_logic

Ok, I'm just now seeing this. Let me read it and respond

FiveFootNinja:
Lol. I like how you just ignored everything I said (including my distinction between formal logic and common sense) only to come back and keep repeating yourself like I didn't just point out the flaws of your position. Not a good look for you I must say.

If you're going to keep repeating yourself on this subject and not offer any evidence to back your claims up, then my work here is done. I'll let discerning readers decide for themselves.

WHAT do I keep repeating that is wrong?? And can you please state again what you said that you said for clarification. Maybe I missed it.

It is simple: we've known for ages through direct experience, testimonies, and observation, that people's thoughts and strong faith seem to affect reality and that results are NOT necessarily logical. THEN QM comes along and demonstrates that the universe is indeed NOT logical at core (meaning most minute level), and that our attention can indeed make something appear. It is that simple!

FiveFootNinja:
I quoted your very own words back at you, so there's no need for you to be disingenuous. I might give you the benefit of doubt if you really didn't understand the implications of your argument, but it was clearly evidenced in the way you presented your argument. And to be honest, it's difficult for me to believe that you really didn't know what you were doing when you said:

And the tone of your delivery in that last sentence was emphatic.

Just to be clear, I'm not trying to fit everything into science. I'm just telling you that most times, observable events can be explained in ways that don't necessarily subvert the common idea of causality. You're the one using magic to explain your ignorance.

QM has proven that the universe is NOT logical at core!!!! That's ALL!!! I didn't say it proved anything else!!
And if the univere is not logical, these other stuff are NOT far-fetched (my exact words). NOT that QM proves anything in the macro world!!!!

LordReed:
How is this magical? Please just stop.

It is magical sir, because it makes the seemingly difficult or impossible, easy. It shifts the needful from outside you to inside your head! Which makes it all magic NOT logic or science (which are what FiveFootNinja is always trying to fit things into!)

If you THINK you are beaten, you are;
If you THINK you dare not, you don't.
If you'd like to win, but THINK you can't,
you won't.
If you THINK you'll lose, you've lost...
Sooner or later the man who wins
Is the man who THINKS he can!

illicit:
Akpabio will foot the bill...

No panic

Yep. With OUR stolen money!

FiveFootNinja:
The start of your first paragraph is already a contradiction.





I think you know you've overextended a bit with your argument and now you're trying to play it safe. It was comments like these that made me quote you in the first place:


It's pretty obvious you were trying to portray your worldview as being evidenced by QM claiming it as a framework for your belief, so it's a bit strange now that after this framework has been shown to be problematic, you are now trying to disclaim it and distance yourself from your past attempts of applying it. 😒

I have not claimed that the universe is logical or vice versa. I don't know enough to make any blanket assumptions. All I have alluded to is the fact that the universe as we know is governed by certain laws. Also I don't think your reference to the placebo effect as proof of the universe being illogical is accurate at all.

There have been research works and studies made and documented in neurobiology for the placebo effect. It has been established that the mind can influence the body's reactions through biochemical pathways. What's so mysterious or "illogical" there? 🤷🏽

And you're confusing yourself with a lot of concepts here. Like psychology for instance. It's basic psychology that if I'm envisioning myself as being clean, I'm motivating myself to take a shower, whether I'm conscious of that fact or not. And this is normal human behavior.

No dey whine us abeg. You need actual evidence to make this kind of argument to work. All these ones you're saying right now is just yarns. 🙄

With respect sir, you're not being truthful. I never said any of these is based on QM. I only said QM illustrates that the universe at core is NOT logical! (And QM is the very core of the universe).

It is beyond psychology and neurology and anything science can explain (which is what you're constantly trying to do - fit things into science). It is like trying to fit the miracles of Christ into science. Many times he said, "Your faith cured you". Your own head cured you! If your head can cure something as complex as a disease how much more these other stuff? And here you are trying to explain it with psychology and neurology!

sonmvayina:
The story does not make any sense. That's because it's not an actual historical story. It is a retelling/re cast of an earlier Babylonian myth. In the Babylonian version Adapa/Adam did not eat the food/fruit in both cases, man lost the chance to dwell indefinitely on earth.

And it doesn't occur to you that they're both talking of same HOSTORICAL occurrence but with distortions from re-telling and human memory?

sonmvayina:
There is no devil and evil being as Christians do.

So when someone murders a child that's not evil?
And there are two voices in your head. Where's the one from that tells you to do evil?

LordReed:
This is just pathetic. Calling the ability to achieve a goal magic is the most insipid thing I ever heard.

Consider sir, because we don't know the universe works like magic, when we want to accomplish something the first and usually only things we consider are our prevailing circumstances and how "hard" it would be from there, and secondly, "how" (the steps we have to take to get there). The magic is in the fact we can actually almost ignore those two things that seem the most important!

sonmvayina:
This one didn't..

Like he said, it is an allegory. We are expected to read it and learn the hidden messages..

Well, I may not know much but I know one thing FOR SURE: you are NOT wiser nor know better than Christ!
Christ and the apostles regarded the story as historical fact, even tracing genealogy of Christ to Adam. Who am I to believe, you or them? You who know almost nothing about how the universe works!

LordReed:
Still skipping the question: tell me something you can achieve with your magic that I can't without it.

That's because the question is irrelevant. The magic lies in the fact that (contrary to our hard-wiring that things have to be logical and lineal) once "the universe" gets the message (or once it gets to a certain level of our subconscious) it will arrange things to somewhat effortlessly bring it into being - no matter how hard it seems to us and however far-fetched it would seem from the current circumstances (infact you can almost say the current circumstances are irrelevant). You can also almost say the question of "how" is irrelevant. That is the magic!

FiveFootNinja:
But how do you know the gun already exists? You haven't seen it yet! 🌚

All jokes aside, I don't think you have a very good understanding of quantum physics if you insist on this funny looking explanation. Quantum effects are not intuitive. They take place at a subatomic level, and under no condition can they scale up to macroscopic objects.

Also, they cannot scale up to metaphysical lengths of transforming yourself from one level of consciousness to another. You cannot use focused attention to transform yourself from one version to another. It won't just happen in an instant. If you are referring to change in character, then that's a result of years of experience and active, observable changes in your own brain, that will bring about a different you. You cannot manifest an alternate version of yourself in a blink of an eye. So it's very ridiculous to think that quantum effects can align with our everyday experiences in that manner.

That's why your argument is dead on arrival, because you seem to be misapplying the principles of QM to falsely argue that with enough focus, you can just bring things to existence just like that. In QM, there's no difference between things that exist and things that don't exist. All particles exist in a state of superposition until they're measured (Look up Copenhagen). I only brought up the gun to challenge your concept of things only manifesting in reality when you observe them. You can't observe my gun at this very moment, but it doesn't make it any less real.

I'm not applying QM to anything, I'm only using it to illustrate that the universe is NOT logical as we are hard-wired to believe. Something that happens everyday, yet you say it cannot happen. Take placebo effect, you'd say that cannot happen, yet it happens everyday! Just know that human understanding of the universe is extremely limited. Nobody says it has to happen in an instant but it has been demonstrated over and over that when people believe something (within reason) without doubt, it happens - exactly as Christ said!
As for version of yourself, you keep using the word instantaneously. Who said it has to be instantaneous? The truth is, even disregarding QM, you can’t consistently see yourself as (example) clean and well-dressed and stay dirty and unkempt for long. Once it gets into a certain depth of your subconscious it must become real.
That can be applied to other aspects of life - once "the universe" gets the message it will arrange things to somewhat effortlessly bring it into being - however hard it would seem to us and however far-fetched it would seem from the current circumstances (infact you can almost say the current circumstances are irrelevant), also don't consider the question "how", you can almost say it is also irrelevant!

Gabrielshow24:
While this reply is witty, it misrepresents her views.

Merci beaucoup sir!

FiveFootNinja:
Hi. If you don't mind, maybe we can conduct an experiment based on your logic here? Maybe you should turn around, and let's test your observation hypothesis with a bullet from a gun. Afterall, you're not going to see it, so the gun shouldn't exist. What say ye? 🙃

But the gun already exists. It only works with things that don’t exist and you want to bring them into existence - you imagine them and focus on them and they materialise. Something like, say, a version of yourself different from the one that currently obtains!

LordReed:
LoLz. No matter you call it QM doesn't lend credence to any dort of magic. You are trying to cooperation something you barely understand into your kookie jargons.

You cannot even tell me something you can achieve with your magic that I can't without it.

Well, everything in the universe is comprised of those quantum particles. If they only materialise when you focuse your attention on them, it is NOT far-fetched to assume that what we focuse on, what we imagine, materialises.

Different versions of you could be floating around, but the one you focuse on becomes your reality. Say you decide to focuse on ("download"} the version that's wealthy, healthy and has it all together, that becomes your reality. You can also mindlessly download the version of you that's poor and struggling!

MaxInDHouse:
Who told you Beroean Jews interpret the Bible themselves?

So this is the lie Satan is promoting that you subscribe to shey?

Well they didn't interpret it themselves it is what Paul INTERPRETED that they were searching other scriptures to know for sure if it's so.

For instance Paul was a Jew and he also practiced Judaism before but now he is claiming Jesus of Nazareth is the Christ which 99% of the Jews kicked against the idea! John 9:22

So it's the fulfillment of prophecies that occurred during the life of Jesus and the events that followed his death that Paul was interpreting to prove that Jesus of Nazareth is the Christ {Act 17:1-4} and that's what the Jews in Beroea were searching the scriptures to verify if this is true not that each person is interpreting the scriptures to cause contradictions just like it is among you people today!

When you suspend your brain (like you freely admit you have done), what faculty will you be using to search the scriptures? And what exactly would you be looking for when your guru (in your case JW insiders) have spoken?
So, oga, they clearly did NOT suspend their brains!

(By the way Pau wasl a Jew and remained a practicing Jew. That he believed Christ didn't cause him to stop practicing Judiasm)

LordReed:
LoLz. Any time you see someone try to use quantum mechanics to prove magic ,there's no need to bother, you know the person has gotten lost in some internet rabbit hole of kookie jargons.

I'm not using quantum mechanics to prove anything. It's just one illustration of how your attention could create reality and that the universe at core is neither logical nor goes by common sense! Examples abound - if you looking at something you're not actually seeing the thing, you're experiencing something in your own head. Hence you could be clearly seeing a distant star that actually disappeared thousands of years ago. So the universe is actually happening in your head. The belief is that it's NOT just happening but that you're actually the one creating the aspect of it that pertains to you!

MaxInDHouse:
I can see how you've been confusing yourself with no one to teach you but it's ok faith is not a possession of all {2Thessalonians 3:2} so you can continue in your ignorance.

Adam and Eve are the only humans on earth that time so they lost their senses after rebelling against God not that they become wise.

If you and your husband are on a beach that belongs to only the two of you and nobody can come to the place do you need clothes to hide your body from your man?

That's exactly what happened to Adam and Eve but after their rebellion they began treating each other as strangers, the wife now felt her naked body shouldn't be exposed to her man again and the man also felt the same.

That was the beginning of trouble for the human race, faithless people only love exposing their bodies to their mate in marriage for a short time after some time they began seeing each other like strangers and the love start to diminish unlike when they first met.

Humility is one of the qualities that comes with the fruit of God's Holy Spirit {Galatians 5:22-23} so if you don't have it i'm sorry for you!

Oga sir, like the Bereans I read the Bible MYSELF and interpret it to the best of my ability with my God-given faculties - but open to better interpretations. I don't remove my brain like a slowpoke and agree that animals only kill for food or animals don't feel pain!

So why do animals not cover themselves though everybody is watching? Same reason - they have no notion of unclothedness. Has nothing to do with who is watching.

MaxInDHouse:
Is this what you expected from Max?

Arguing what has been simplified by the faithful and discreet slave that Jesus appointed to TEACH us?

Well i'm not your type sha, your type will come arguing with you endlessly we are HUMBLE PEOPLE! Zephaniah 2:2-3; Matthew 5:5

Yep, Jesus appointed LYING, brainwashed JW insiders to teach you!

I can imagine Eve saying to Adam, "You slowpoke, you're naked, NAKED!!"
And he replying confusedly, "What is "naked"?"😅
My joke of the day!

Gabrielshow24:
1) God told them the consequences of eating the fruit which was obviously bad.

They couldn't discern as at then but they could listen.
All what they did were based on instructions and one of those instructions elucidated the consequences of eating the fruit—Death.

2) there's no clear indication whether or not they ate from the tree of life 🤔 but there are reasons to suggest that didn't because of the Lord's retort to them after the fall.

Some might argue that they ate but it falls short because they died; thereby making the 'tree of life' no different to a 'mango' by sustaining one only for a 'short' season!!!

This also shouldn't have alarmed God if they were to eat from it again after 'devouring' from the tree of K.G.E.

The ripple effect suggests that they didn't eat from the tree of life 🤔!!!

3) there is no mention as to why the serpent was more wise or cunning than the beast of the field but there are reasons to suggests that it might have had 'external interaction' or it was simply just plain wise but mischievously so!

If it had interaction then it was doing the bidding of one whose name must not be mentioned👀—The Dark Lord!

Or it was inadvertently being inspired or fed such information 😅, obviously so, by the Dark Lord😵‍💫?

If it was just 'plain wise' then it did everything on its own accord and this 'event' was an opportune chance by the Devil to make man fall!

4) this is plain obvious!
Information would have been passed on to her!

Her statement confirms that also!

5) that's the aspect of being omniscient!
You see and know all possibilities!

It's now left to the 'players' to choose their paths.

6) it's a bye product of the ripple effect of man's sins.

The earth was cursed!
Women travailed in labor👀
Hence violence also would have erupted upon the surface of the earth in different forms!

7) The serpent crawling on the ground has two meanings the literal which suggests that they might not have been walking on their bellies initially and the metaphorical, which is a direct judgement to the personality of Satan!

Both, by your logic, will be idiots or morons as they didn't know they were naked!!!

The question is also inconsequential to the subject matter!

1. They were given two choices, one good, the other bad. They were TOLD this (not shown). They had no notion of good or bad. They just did stuff. How will such beings (who had no notion of unclothedness) even comprehend death.
They hadn't eaten the fruit and had no notion of good or bad!

2. The question is why. WHY hadn't they eaten the tree of life all that time when they were clearly told about it and were NOT forbidden from eating it?

3. The question is WHY?
Why create him wise then allow him access to simple, gullible beings subject to deception and manipulation?

4 But she did not get it firsthand so it had much less power. Also, how was she sure Adam was not jiving her? grin

5. How does free will tally with them being DESTINED to do something?

6. Still doesn't explain why animals are being punished when they did nothing wrong

7. Compare to man's punishment. Suppose man's punishment was to be walking with their feet? Would that make sense?

8. Nope. Eve ate the fruit before Adam. How would you like to be married to a woman who did not know that walking around naked is bad - just like an animal?
It is relevant because Adam had to eat the fruit to come up to the level of his wife!
I can imagine her saying, "You slowpoke, you're naked, NAKED!!"
And he replying confusedly, "What is "naked"?"😅

MaxInDHouse:
Jesus suspended the use of his brain for the (unseen God) Apostles suspended the use of their brains for Jesus (a man they can see) disciples suspended the use of their brains for apostles (men they can see)
So God has human representatives to whom we must be SUBMISSIVE! Hebrews 13:17

Read your Bible. The apostles PRAISED the Bereans for NOT suspending their brains. Which is why today we have the Berean Bible

Steep:
they knew that the eating of the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil (K.G.E) was bad because God told them,in order words, the fruit of the tree gave them an inherit ability to know good and evil.

They had not eaten from the tree of life.

The Serpent was created wise and tricky subtle for some other purpose. People sharp knives knowing it could be used to kill but the purpose is different. Knowledge, abilities, things in general can be used for good or evil depending on the intention of the user. A doctor can use the his instrument to operate on a patient in order to save his life but he can also use it to kill him. Subtlety is also an attribute of wisdom.

Proverbs 1:4 To give subtilty to the simple, to the young man knowledge and discretion.

However the instruction was passed down to her.

. God gave man free will, God does not use his Omniscient to override man's will unjustly.

man was the head as far as the earth is concerned so through man the physical creation fell and through man they will be redeemed.

God is the creator of na nature, the curse actually might have altered the Serpent's nature. What you call nature today has already being cursed.

same feminist enlightenment nonsense which is noting but gnosticsm. Calling disobedience to God self awareness just shows plain demonic. You seem to have embraced this new age satanic enlightenment. (Disgusting)

1. They hadn't eaten the fruit and had no notion of good or bad

2. The question is why. WHY hadn't they eaten the tree of life all that time when they were clearly told about it and were NOT forbidden from eating it?

3. The question is WHY?
Why create him wise then allow him access to simple, gullible beings subject to deception and manipulation?

4 But she did not get it firsthand so it had much less power. Also, how was she sure Adam was not jiving her?

5. How does free will tally with them being DESTINED to do something?

6. Still doesn't explain why animals are being punished when they did nothing wrong

7. Compare to man's punishment. Suppose man's punishment was to be walking with their feet? Wouldn't that make sense?

8. No at all. How would you like to be married to a woman who did not know that walking around naked is bad - just like an animal?

MaxInDHouse:
Unlike Jesus Christ who suspended the use of his brain only to preach and teach what his father told him:
"I cannot do a single thing of my own initiative. Just as I hear, I judge, and my judgment is righteous because I seek, not my own will, but the will of him who sent me." John 5:30

Unlike Apostles who suspended the use of their brains only to follow Jesus like zombies in whatever he teaches:
“If anyone wants to come after me, let him disown himself and pick up his torture stake day after day and keep following me". Luke 9:23

Unlike those taught by the Apostles who suspended the use of their brains only to remain obedient to the teaching of Apostles:
"Be obedient to those who are taking the lead among you and be submissive, for they are keeping watch over you as those who will render an account, so that they may do this with joy and not with sighing, for this would be damaging to you." Hebrews 13:7

For your information that's why Jesus is 100% sure that all his true disciples will have the same line of thought {John 17:20-23} because the same thought runs from Jehovah to Jesus to Apostles to disciples and there can never be any division among us {1Corinthians 1:10} the love unite us together as one big and happy family of peace loving worshipers throughout the earth! John 13:34-35


But as for unah Satan rebelled against Jehovah and began promoting pride among you therefore from Satan to the least among you people it's arrogance all through leading to division and by the end of the day you people will resort to weapons fighting and killing one another yet claiming Jesus is your Lord! Matthew 7:21-23

They suspended their brains for God. You suspended yours for MEN! Corrupt men at that, with an agenda and a narrative they can't admit is wrong

LordReed:
Naa you wanted to sound like I was the unreasonable one who can't see your magic. What something can your magic get that I can't get without it? Can you magic yourself to become the richest man in the world? Or is your magic limited to what anybody can achieve anyway?

Can you believe in a million years that something can be in more than one place at once or that something will not exist until YOU look at it?

In quantum mechanics there are infinite possibilities. A particle will be everywhere but will only materialise where you happen to look. Your attention makes it real at that spot. So also real life.

LordReed:
Naa you wanted to sound like I was the unreasonable one who can't see your magic. What something can your magic get that I can't get without it? Can you magic yourself to become the richest man in the world? Or is your magic limited to what anybody can achieve anyway?

YES!! If you are able to honestly see yourself as totally already that. But it doesn't go by comparison (richest), but that may happen by default. It's a power we just don't use because our brain is wired to believe things have to make sense when in fact the universe is NOT logical at all!😆. Quantum mechanics has proven it!