₦airaland Forum

shadeyinka:
You read up something on the internet and suddenly you've become an expert.

You read some Jewish mythology about some imaginary beings that fell into the earth from some fictitious heaven and interacted with humans and you think you have monopoly of knowledge.

johnydon22:
So? aliens did it because you have no idea how it came about, guy go and sleep....

He did not even study the history of iron smelting and he's here asking inane questions.

shadeyinka:
I guess you don't get it yet.
What you insinuate was that man just did some random process and sometime, beneficial side effects come out of it.
But
You forget the law of probability. All in the remote parts of the world use similar techniques.

If I have seen smelting of iron ore before, it makes sense if I use series of trials and error to recreate it.

Humans achieve great results in incremental steps: I ask that you
1. show me inceamental steps in iron ore smelting technologies.
2. Show show me migrational pattern of the spread of iron technology.

It would interest you to know that several communities who never passed through the bronze age still managed to have iron technology. For e information,Bronze melts at about 600oC and iron melts at about 1200oC. These are not common temperatures.

My friend just read up on the history of iron smelting. The ancients weren't smelting iron at such high temperatures. They used a process called bloom, which then has to be consolidated with a hammer to produce wrought iron. They weren't heating up the iron and using it the way we are using it now. The technology for that came over time. You are just making ridiculous assumptions.

MrPresident1:
The way you say that 'wee wee' is so funny, I am roaring with laughter

I don't even know what wee wee looks like. Show me the picture

Say no to wee wee. I don tell you my own.

MrPresident1:
I do no wee wee, I do no drugs. I only read my Bible

Wee wee man. You don see mad man wey gree say him dey mad?

johnydon22:
More appealing?

No doubt, thats why it has less and less adherents everyday.

Yes more appealing. People always want to be told what they stand to gain in every endeavour they engage in. Religions like Christianity and Islam have been able to outline and articulate that in ways the TAR haven't.

MrPresident1:
Wetin be wee wee?

The drugs you are consuming.

African traditional religions weren't well thought out and refined that's why most people find the foreign religions more appealing. We were supposed to have refined them and make them more appealing but we didn't.

MrPresident1:
In less than 33 days he will be here.

This wee wee man don come again.

frank317:
I think he is saying that either aliens or fallen angels thought humans iron smelting... Lol

My problem is that they couldn't teach humans how to make flat screen TVs or smart phone... Recall this was prior to the coming of Jesus Christ, a supposed son of the creator.

Even Jesus thought no human no single technology. He even had to shout at the top of his voice to preach to 5000people( if that is possible). Lol, Jesus ,son of the creator didn't bother to invent microphone since he knew he was going to preach to a crowd, but ordinary fallen angels or aliens thought humans how to smith iron.

Nothing way I no go hear for Nairaland.

He couldn't even think that the process was as a result of trial and error that took a long period of time like hundred of years. The inventor might have been interested in other things when they stumbled on the possibility of iron smithing.

I just tire for the guy. I couldn't even respond to him.

butterflylion:
Please and please stop quoting me since dishonesty is now fanciful.

Where did I say they injected 11D stimuli? I simply said the response structures which are 11D were triggered by another stimuli which obviously wasn't from our 3D limited world. This was why the question was asked why the brain would erect 11D structures since our world only had 3D stimuli and this quote was the question.

Nothing like what you are saying is even suggested in the article. Articleis saying A while you are saying B.

From the article directly:


"But now scientists are[b] trying to claim our knowing and awareness exists in 11 dimensions".[/b]

How are they claiming that our knowing and awareness exist in 11D when you are saying that it is something out of the world that we can not even access. But they are already claiming that our knowingand awareness already exist in 11D not that it comes from any 11D stimulations as you are trying to say. Article is talking about calibration when a group of neurons forms a clique and the geometric object they form and how they are used to measure dimensions while you are talking about something else. Based on that calibration they were able to discover many things.

It says "From tens of millions of these objects even in a small speck of the brain, up through seven dimensions. In some networks, we even found structures with up to eleven dimensions.”

All these were discovered using the mathematical postulations and calibrations they clearly explained.

In response to what? We have a world limited to 3D yet the brain developed 11D response structures in her neural cliques. The brain being a machine that responds to external stimuli shouldn't be having 11D response structures when it has only been exposed to 3D stimuli from our world.

So the big question is WHY? WHERE? HOW?

WHY is the brain raising these response structures when we only offer 3D stimuli

WHERE are these 11D stimuli coming from?

HOW is the brain able to break down this information it obviously has been receiving in 11D to our own 3D so beautifully without being fried?

The questions and ramifications are endless but of course you would never see those ramifications being the unscientific mind you are.

Calling on another unscientific mind such as hopefullandlord is a desperate cry for support or help from one who is in over his head. But how can you call one who cannot swim to save another who also cannot swim?

Like I said, not all arguments are meant to be won. Many are to learn from. You should try learning from this one.

Enjoy your swim and you can finally cease quoting me now regarding this topic which you ignorantly have been arguing about. It's futile arguing with people who do not understand scientific language.

All of what they talked about following the process by which the structures arise which they clearly outlined.

butterflylion:
This is why I detest arguing with ignorant yet proud people. The article clearly states and I quote.

We found a world that we had never imagined,” says neuroscientist Henry Markram, director of Blue Brain Project and professor at the EPFL in Lausanne, Switzerland, “there are tens of millions of these objects even in a small speck of the brain, up through seven dimensions. In some networks, we even found structures with up to eleven dimensions.”

These dimensions as in this case 11D response structures were already present in even a small speck of the brain and in some neural cliques or networks they found up to 11D response structures.

They were already there and they used the below to explain how they calculated dimensions.




Since they already had a 3D reference it was easy to use the same response structures to now calculate higher dimensions with the help of algebraic topology via the neural cliques. The reason why algebraic topology was used was due to the extremely high neural cliques or networks involved. You only employ topology when you wish to mathematically calculate abstracts.

Why do you have to deliberately be dishonest? Why?

Supernoetics is an attempt to rebuild the brain by man so intense studies into the workings of our neurons are extremely important and they know what they are on about.

They have proven that the brain constantly rewires itself during development (higher information exposure) to build a network with as many high-dimensional structures as possible and the highest they came across was 11D.

I have told you I am done arguing with you because you are obviously ignorant but now you also wish to add dishonesty to that. So quit quoting me on this subject.

You are just making things up and claiming to know what clearly you have shown you do not know. The article clearly states what the structures / stimulations are and how they are calibrated. When applied the structures are calibrated into different dimensions. It is this dimensions the article dwells on. You on the other hand is saying that external 11D stimulations were injected into the neurons and the neurons responded in a certain way when the article never made that claim. The article even asked why the brain suddenly erect 11-dimensional structures? In response to what?" If they are using 11D stimulations as you are saying why then are they asking such questions. You are dishonestly spinning their article and still accusing me of dishonesty. Run along if you have nothing to say.

Abeg hopefulLandlord come and see what this one is saying. Follow the debate and give me your honest opinion pls.

You are just making things up because none of what you are talking about is even reported in the link you posted

butterflylion:
Young man listen and I mean really listen so you would save yourself from dying of ignorance.

Neurons (also known as neurones, nerve cells and nerve fibers) are electrically excitable cells in the nervous system that function to process and transmit information

They never get exitable without an external information stimuli. A neuron does not just fire on its own. Something triggers it and for sake of this conversation and what has been observed based on the 11D response structure in the neurons it was an 11D information that triggered such a response.

When the talk about neural cliques, these cliques are network-level memory coding units in the hippocampus and they never fire up without an external stimuli.

The brain does not go into a frenzy of neural cliques without something triggering it and that something in this case were 11D stimulations. Something our world does not have and cannot offer.

Completely not true. The link you gave very clearly stated what it means by neural cliques and how they are calibrated. No where does it state that 11D simulations were injected into the brain. They clearly stated what they meant by the structures/ stimulations they were talking about and how they are gotten. They structures / stimulations" arise when a group of neurons forms a clique: each neuron connects to every other neuron in the group in a very specific way that generates a precise geometric object. The more neurons there are in a clique, the higher the dimension of the geometric object". It is based on that that they talked about 4, 5 and 6 D. They then went to say that these calibration and test using algebraic topology were carried out on a virtual brain and later on to a real brain where it was SUGGESTED that the brain constantly rewires during development to build a network with as many high-dimensional structures as possible based on their calibration. The brain is stimulated and calibrated into various dimension based on the type of clique that is formed. The more neurons there are in a clique, the higher the dimension of the geometric object. They even claimed that as a result our knowing and awareness EXIST in 11D. How is it that they are claiming that our knowing and awareness exist in 11D when you are saying that it isn't accessible to us at all and completely out of our reach. Are we reading the same thing?

The 11D response structure is an attempt by the brain to upgrade itself to the level of understanding the information it was getting. Much like a super computer would need an upgrade in order to cope with the volume of data or information which is beyond its capacity or what it was

Upgrade itself to which information when the same article has this to say:

"It all sounds very plausible, except for one thing: why does the brain suddenly erect 11-dimensional structures? In response to what?"

When words like Mathematics dimensions are used In physics and mathematics, the dimension of a mathematical space (or object) is informally defined as the minimum number of coordinates needed to specify any point within it. The concept of dimension is not restricted to physical objects. High-dimensional spaces frequently occur in mathematics and the sciences

Mathematical dimensions deal with NON TANGIBLE SPECIFICS and those specifics are real but the mathematics is not tangible. They were simply trying to explain to you what mathematical dimension means and I have expanded on that explanation right now.

They clearly explained what they meant by mathematical dimensions in context of their article. No further explanations from.from . you is needed.

If you do not know the function of neurons and that they do not function without information stimulation how then can you convince anyone that you have the slightest understanding of what we are talking about? You mentioned neural cliques but do not even know what causes neural cliques. You think they just spring up randomly?

The more you argue the more you show your inability to hold this discussion with me or anyone remotely scientific. You simply look at words but not their meanings or inferences.

I have engaged you enough. You are simply going round in circles despite how simply I keep breaking things down to your level. Not all arguments are meant to won. Most are to learn from. Try to learn from this one.

You are not explainin anything to me but making things up on your own. Where in the article was it stated that 11D simulations were passed into the neurons? Just show me that specifically pls.

felixomor:
Dullardman
Have u ever provided a video as evidence that wasnt listened to and analysed by me?

Please Excuse yourself.
Science is not for you

Felixmumu provide evidence in form of scientific articles not a YouTube video. How many times have I provided a YouTube video as evidence to support any science based discussion? Does this Youtube video show any body that was certified brain dead that showed any cognitive abilities?

felixomor:
Oh So you mean the video is MUTE?
Then after you will say we are Liars

Baba provide scientific published papers not YouTube videos. This is similar to me providing a video of a professor of evolution talking about evolution as evidence of evolution to you in a debate. Don't tell me that you are this dense.

felixomor:
The bolded clearly shows the type of person you are.
He explained "things". And yet you cant take pain to learn or even take note of what he said.

Let alone even trying to rebut it.
You don't even care to know who the man is.
Why would you.

Apart from that, I even provided another link on this thread
But you wont see it.

Please It is sad to inform you that discussions such as this are not meant for you.

He isn't saying anything. The link he provided is saying one thing while he is saying another. The link for example clearly says that the mathematical dimensions are pure abstractions and are NOT real while he is trying to say that they are real. Why should I listen to him when the link is there and is saying a different thing.

So providing a link is everything abi? I read your link and it doesn't provide any specific or detailed evidence. It says of all the patients under study ONLY one was able to fully demonstrate an out of body consciousness when declared "dead". It didnt state how the person was declared dead and for how long. It link also made some wI'll claims about people retaining some type of cognitive abilities 3 minutes after being dead. How were they able to determine this? They didn't say. If people are able to do that , how did they know? Did the people come back to life and tell them that? If they didn't die as they also insinuated then that means they were not dead. It's that simple.

butterflylion:
11D is a reality because the same place that processes 3D information is the same place found to possess 11D structures in response to what 3D cannot offer.

I tried explaining 11D to you but your lack of understanding could not fathom it.

If 3D talks about height, width and depth then surely 11D is way beyond that and that was why I said earlier that 11D is like seeing an object from the front, back, under, top, in between, inside out, outside in, while going through all the delicate and intense sensory reactions that come with these views as well as existing or non existing colours as we know it then processing all these information in a nano second.

Is 3D abstract? If it isn't then why would you term 11D abstract? Are you agreeing that man is limited to 3D in our material world? Since you are and since the brain only evolves based on what it is exposed to and we have the inability to expose it to 11D then why then does it have 11D structures which scientifically has been proven to be a response to an external unknown stimuli based on where it is located.

11D is not a reality because it doesn't even exist in reality. The link you gave even made that absolutely clear.

Note that extra mathematical dimensions are pure abstractions; they do not actually exist, except to make formulas balance up when the formula is otherwise WRONG!

How are these stimulations/structures achieved or gotten from the brain? According to the link you posted they are gotten :

"Claims that these structures arise when a group of neurons forms a clique: each neuron connects to every other neuron in the group in a very specific way that generates a precise geometric object. The more neurons there are in a clique, the higher the dimension of the geometric object".

It is not as if the brain was stimulated with some external information from a dimensional plane we do not have access to at all as you are suggesting . The scientist that conducted the study only made some extrapolation after observing a group of netrons forming a clique that generates a specific geometric object. The more neutrons the more geometric object, they then categorized then into different planes and dimensions.

This is just an extrapolation based on abstract observations. That is why the link said that the group of scientist are TRYING TO CLAIM that our knowing and awareness EXIST in 11D. Mark the word exist in 11D.

felixomor:
- and thats why he showed u scientific evidence for consciousness and awareness without brain activity.
You still don't grab ?




His scientific evidence already shows consciousness beats the scope of brain activity.
Thats all he needs to show.

Which scientific evidence has he provided? Which one have you povided? You just provided a vidoe of a man explaining away things he insist muh be accepted in a certain way. Just drop the scientific paper that states that consciousness has been shown to exist in a person that was certified brain dead.

A vidoe of a man making assertions is not evidence of anything. This is akin to me providing a video of an evolutionists talking and explaining evolution in a video as evidence for evolution.

butterflylion:
I wonder why this is too hard for him to understand?

All I have offered which is ground breaking scientific information is so anyone can analyse it.

If all we know today isn't limiting the brain to itself and the brain is showing clear signs of stimuli beyond what it is exposed to then what is causing this higher external stimuli which is beyond what our own material world has to offer? It must be something more than this our world.

If it was from our world then we would not be talking about it. The brain evolves based on what it is exposed to.

A cave man would remain a caveman because he is not exposed to anything beyond his level but the moment he is, his brain evolves to cope with the new information stimuli.

That is what is happening here. There is an external 11D stimuli which the brain is responding to and we know it's not from us because 11D is not 3D. You cannot get higher by being exposed to lower.

What is 11D?

butterflylion:
My God!

Is abstract mathematics a materially existing thing? Yet it is used to establish the existence of things that do exist.

How did we get to establish the existence of 3D and show that our brain is 3D based? MATHEMATICS!

now same algebraic topology has established an existing 11D structure in our brain. But because our world only holds 3D information they cannot (for now) say the source of this 11D responses but can talk about the effect of the source which is not in dispute.

There is no disputing the fact that this 11D stimuli source is not from our own 3D world. There is no arguing this.

What they say is no claim but a fact and this fact is GROUND BREAKING!

Even a lay man can analyse available information such as I have given you enough of but you simply refuse to analyse but keep asking for a name for this source or an 11D information. If you understood anything from all I have been saying then your questions would have been totally unnecessary. Your asking those questions show you have no understanding regarding all I have been talking about and only wish to box me into a corner by trying to force me to say a name or offer an 11D information when clearly if you had given yourself to a little analytical thinking you would realise that such 11D information isn't available. Even if it was available it certainly wouldn't be in this our 3D limited world.

You are not talking about anything. You are just trying to build a mountain out of an abstract speculation.

3D simply means something that has height, width and depth. 11D is what? What you've failed to say is that this 11D stimuli you are talking about is not a thing at all. Its not that the brain was actually stimulated with a 11D stimuli in REALITY. All these are abstract postulations that aren't real. What they are saying is NO FACT but a ground breaking abstract claim. We are not talking about reality here but abstract postulations.

The 11D structures you are talking about are not real structures but abstracts. We need to get that clear.

felixomor:
Just as u clearly refused to tell us why u left what he provided and decided to pursue "what generates consciousness"

He said that consciousness isn't generated by the brain and my consistent question to him is what generates consciousness. He then went into the filed of abstract mathematics and claims that were made that have not even been established and started running commentary on them. All I asked him was to tell me what generates consciousness.

butterflylion:
Your denseness keeps increasing!

How can you provide what does not exist in our material world due to our sensory perception yet that which aids our sensory perception (the brain) is raising 11 dimensional structures in response to stimuli which our material world does not offer.

So if our material world does not offer 11D then it must be coming from somewhere else. Now what this place is called is a story for another day but we have been able to establish that:

1. Our material world is realistically a 3D limited space.

2. The brain has 11D structures in her neurons which came about by external stimuli.

3. These 11D external stimuli could not have been generated by our material world since it is a 3D limited space.

4. If it was not generated by our world but we can see the effects (the 11D structures) then there MUST be another external source which isn't our own material 3D space.

5. What is this external source called or what manner of information emanates from it that would demand 11D structures being raised by the brain as a response? THIS THEN BECOMES THE BIG QUESTION.

None of what you are saying here has been established. All these are mere claims based on ABSTRACT postulations. The link you gave clearly said that some scientist are TRYING TO CLAIM that that our knowing and awareness exist in 11D. They have not established it. They are just claiming it. We are talking about abstract claims here and not reality. It's very important to note that. Non of what you are saying is real. Everything you are talking about is abstart claims. The brain havibg 11D structires is just an absttaxt postulation that hasn't even been established. That is why I asked you specifically to give me an example of an 11D stimulus or information that is processed by the brain. What are these 11D structures the study claims the brain is erecting?

shadeyinka:
I can see that you're a genus!

So Aliens taught humans iron smelting? Interesting.

butterflylion:
[/b]

This shows you have no clue what we are talking about.

Our world only holds 3D information so where can our 3D world produce 11D stimuli from when none is found here yet the brain is being stimulated by 11D information obviously from outside the limits of our 3D world especially since it has developed 3D structures in her neurons to cope with these 11D stimuli.

We do not need to physically see the evidence but we can see the effects of the evidence (for now). For there to be an effect (the 11D structures in the brain) then there must be a cause.

Knowing the cause is another thing but the effect is clear and definitely the cause is not from the limitations of our 3 dimensional world.

Where and how then do you want me to produce an 11D information from when it is not found in our limited 3D world?

Do you see why I said you show absolutely no understanding regarding this discussion.

What is this 11D information you are talking about? What is it? You said earlier that our brain is converting 11D information into 3D. What is this 11D information? Give an example of it.

felixomor:
Ok I see,
So you no longer want what "generates consciousness"?

He clearly said he can't provide that. Can you help him?

felixomor:
I already know his ways.
Very soon from that mathematics, they will look for another straw to hang on.
Straw to straw. The journey continues

Baba give us an example of an 11D information that the brain processes. A clear example is what you are to give.

butterflylion:
They want to force me to say what I never said. I simply analysed latest available scientific data based on algebraic topology in the blue brain project and he is still asking for evidence from abstract mathematics.

You are talking about abstracts and you want me to do what with it? Give me a clear example of an 11D information that can be processed by the brain.

tintingz:
You have not provide any evidence dalaman asked. I have been following you guys arguments.

Abeg leave the loud mouth blow hard. He made a claim, I asked him to provide evidence and he want off jumping all over the place and ended up providing nothing.

butterflylion:
we are done here! Every scientific assertion I have posted and you have read clearly are alien to you hence your repeated questions.

Have a good day.

And the scientific assertions that shows the thing that generates consciousness is what? Run along.

butterflylion:
young man it's clear scientifically engaging you on any discussion is futile because you lack the ability to reason scientifically.

I do not need to categorically state or show you evidence when I have repeatedly stated that the brain being a 3 dimensional machine and this 3 dimensional state was brought about by our external stimuli yet this same brain now has 11 dimensional structures found in it which were definitely not brought about by our known 3 dimensional stimulation then something beyond what is attainable in our world is causing the brain to make these reactions.

What it is, is not for me to say but it's clear that those reactions are there and not being influenced by our known 3 dimensional world.

I also in reference to this tried to simplify it by using the radio and radio station example. A radio receives signals and interpretes such signals to sound but does not originate those signals. Which is like the mind and brain.

The source of the radio signal is high powered but the radio itself isn't.

Critical thinking does not always seek evidence but can draw evidence from its own critical analysis of information available and presented to it.

I repeat, " if we are restricted to a 3 dimensional world and the brain only reacts to what externally stimulates it which is in our known 3 dimensional world, yet has 11 dimensional structures which are obvious reactions which are not found in our 3 dimensional world, what then is causing these 11 dimensional reactions since we have strictly 3D in our world.

Does our world have 11 dimensional stimuli dalaman?

So you do not know what generates consciousness. Say that and move along instead of wasting my time with comentaries you do not have answers for. If I am to ask further questions you will still continue with your merry go round of endless speculations. I don't need that. I just wanted you to provide evidence for your claims, since you can't then move along. If I want to read or engage in scientific discussions I know where to go.

butterflylion:
How are 3 dimensional objects calculated? How are visual aids which assist in viewing 3D calculated and made us aware that 3D actually exists? MATHEMATICS!

now they found 11D structures in the brain and how were they able to calculate it to be 11D? MATHEMATICS!

I never said mathematics brought the tangibility of what generates consciousness so I do not know where you read that from. What I said was simply that our world offers a strict 3 dimensional external stimuli and our brain is meant to restrict itself to what stimulates it but clearly the brain isn't doing that because it has 11 dimensional structures in it and this goes against how things should be since we only offer 3D in our world. So where is the 11D emanating from?

It's like the brain upgrades itself to receive 11D information and then downgrades to give out 3D feedback. One end is 3D (our end) the other end is 11D.

Without mathematics calculating this 11D existence how would we have known that such a thing existed?

Now we know that this exists, how come is the brain having it when there is nothing on our planet capable of causing such stimulation which would cause such a reaction from the brain?

You really need critical thinking in order to follow my train of thought dalaman.

I did NOT ask you to run commentary on the function of the brain as to how it receives 11D information and downgrade it to 3D or ask me questions about things you do not know about . That is not what I asked you to do. I simply asked you to tell me what generates consciousness as a response to you claim, that is what you are to do and not give me commentary on brain function.

felixomor:
By now you should know how he argues.

He argues by repeating the same sentence over and over again. Even when u have addressed what he is saying
And then before you know, he starts repeating the exact same words you are using.

By the way, I thought they were after "scientific evidence" ?
Now it is mathematics. SMH

Show me where he has addressed what I've asked him.

What is the thing that generates consciousness is what he is to tell me. Show me where he addressed it. You can help him as well.