₦airaland Forum

butterflylion:
I have been laughing so hard right from when I began engaging them. Not one of them ever and I mean ever makes a jot of sense.

They try to push their confusion on people but to someone with a [b]sharp mind like mine [/b]all I see are confused people trying to make me laugh and at that they are succeeding

So in your mind you have a sharp mind. . Abeg no make me spill my drink for body with laughter . Sharp mind indeed. .

butterflylion:
*face palm* so much idiocy in one person.

I will ask you again. What has my belief got to do with your claim? When you made your claim did you first ask me for my belief? If somebody showed me pictures or not how does that affect your claim after all your claim is a counter to whatever pictures I was shown or not shown. How do they even have anything in common??

Going by your logic Since you also claim not to have any empirical evidence to back up your claim I can also say you were indoctrinated into atheism can I not?

You see why I say you are confused? Let me post my comment again

I made my claims and provided my own evidence. You refused to accept it and insisted that I should provide your own specific kind of evidence. I will provide ot only after you give me an example of the evidence you want so that I'll see it before getting yours. I'll need you to provide me with the specific pictures and dates you were provided with as proof before you believed so that I can get it for you.

.

How on earth can you relate a book with an idea? First you were on about an idea and now you are sitting on a book? Are you this daft?

Are you so blind not to know that the idea is different from the book? Before the book there was something that caused the idea. So which is of more value? That which caused the idea or the idea or the book?

At this point It is obvious you are in a deep poo of confusion.

Just show that this thing that existed before the book is real on its own without human input. Just show how it existed and what it did on its own to let people know about it without human input. It shouldn't be difficult for you.

BlueAngel444:
A delusional state. No wonder in the bible it's written a fool says in his heart their is no God.

He isn't forced to believe that, he just feels proud having brought himself without any help to such conclusions.

The convince themselves

I HAVE THE HOLY GHOST THAT CONVINCES ME

. This one na nut case. Use the holy ghost to convince us na. What are you waiting for? You have the holy Ghost which you believe is part of God in you, yet you cant even formulate clear arguments. Mumu!

felixomor:
Eiya, At last you have manifested your foolishness in A very large way!

You'll soon be exposed. Enjoy it while it last but I assure you that you'll soon be exposed.

BlueAngel444:
In Africa a bastard is one who doesn't know his father.

I have told you my origin, tell me yours.

Define your existence, since you reason for yourself what is your conclusion as to your origin

While you at it proof that the day you believe you were born is the actual day you were born.

When your done, realise the foolish you speak of.


You portray your 'wisdom' in that God isnt real because it's told to you by a man.

Then your name isn't real, your probably adopted, maybe a science experiment or you brain chemically ultered. You probably don't even exist and all you see are lies.

Maybe we are just bots in the matrix system you've been born and trapped in to believe this is all there is to you.

Do you even have a certain belief, or you don't believe at all

You've told me your origin how? By insisting I accept Jewish mythology and fiction?

Why will an all powerful God that wants me to know about it amd start a personal relationship with it depend on you to tell me about it and how to go about it. Pls explain it to me. All I asked you was to tell me where God is and you started crying.

butterflylion:
Yqqqou need to show you understand your own comments before you ask someone else to help you do so because you obviously do not check yourself when you type and post. You simply type anywhere belle face.

FYI you claim that extraordinary claims demand extraordinary evidence as an atheist right? So I have the right to reject your version of what you term as "evidence" and demand what I feel would be satisfactory which I did by demanding for pictures, names and dates. Did I ask for too much from someone who claimed that God is of human construct? Surely for you to believe that as an atheist you must have gotten empirical proof to this effect or is atheism no longer proof driven?

If only you showed me the pictures and tangible evidence you were provided with before believing in God only then will I accept that you deserve the type of evidence you are requesting for. I reject and refuse to provide it on the groundsthat you do not deserve it because you werent provided with any such evidence before you believed. You wdream simply indoctrinated.

Are you suffering from selective atheism?

Again you conclude that "I believe the bible is divine ". Says who? You? The Bible as a book is not divine. I am sure when you were a Christian you were among those who would sleep with the bible under your pillow believing that the book holds the power to save you.


Lying and goalpost shifting is nothing to you so why am I not surprised?

So your claim that I said the bible is divine is based on your assumptions abi? So you don't believe that the bible is a divine book. If it is a man made book like any other book as I claimed then why are you yapping? If it isn't divine and is man made then all it's stories and everything is man made.

butterflylion:
You must have the brain of a pea. Who ever said our perception of reality is superior to anyone? Are theists the one who go around calling everyone who do not agree with their worldview deluded?

Bigotry is at the very heart of atheism. You are so intolerant so much so that you hunger and thirst after religious threads and can never look away.

Yet you come here to speak of bigotry. Abeg carry your pea sized brain and reasoning waka.

See waste of space calling others waste of time. Your time is already being wasted by sitting on Nairaland all day every day to debate what you have accepted does not exist so how can anyone be wasting Your Own time for you when you are doing so seamlessly by yourselves.

Felixmumu. I always knew this was your alt moniker.

BlueAngel444:
The pagans were the first to call those who were like Christ, Christians, because of their message and way of life

Without human input, simply. From before the beginning was the God was made the beginning by speaking it into existence and therefore setting the course of time from its on set.

God Spoke- Bang all things began.

God spoke a word and that very word manifested

If you can believe that man just came to be, why then find it difficult to accept the self origin of God, if not that denying Him makes you your own god, ruled by your flesh.


The Word became flesh, it never started with a man, not even Abraham, not moses nor Adam. It began with God.

He spoke Himself into existence,

He used His own arm to bring about his purposes

God does it, has it pleases Him

God told the very first woman, Eve, a woman would bear salvation and from that day for four thousand years ALL nations waited for His appearance

Pls go and park somewhere and leave me alone. You are an indoctrinated robot. You can't even reason for yourself. So the first woman that existed is Eve abi? I cry for you if you are an African. Mumu.

BlueAngel444:
I searched for Him with all my heart


But



I did not find Him



He found me.

He sees all things, flesh and blood cannot reveal Him to you, He knows the intent of your heart and if your He's, He will find you when it's time

To recognise Him when He reveals Himself to you, you must study the Torah not as a story but as an investigation to discover His nature. By watching someone you get glimpses of who they are,

Rule 1. God is love
Rule 2. God is holy
Rule 3. You have no idea what rule 1 or 2 mean, even by definition except by encounter (job, Isaiah testify of this)

Be prepared to lose yourself for Him to reveal Himself to you.

You must have Self-control and be Humbly (it will feel so much like a fast and your heart not even your body is breaking apart.

Without these His fearful presence will consume, He HATES PRIDE

My goodness. .

You are DELUDED and I seriously mean it.

What am.I to do with all the puerile nonsne you typed up there?

So I must study the Torah before God reveals Himself to me?

My friend said I should study the Koran to know God's true nature and final revelation and message to mankind. Why is he wrong and why are you right?

butterflylion:
Once again he does it. Such a confused fellow

You said the God idea is from man and when I asked for evidence you shifted goal posts to the bible as a book and not the God idea. You then tried to say since the bible was written by men that is your proof of the God idea being from men.

I said God is a man made idea and gave my evidence. You refused to accept it am insisted that I should provide you with pictures and dates as if you accepted pictures and dates before believing in the God idea. I just gave you a standard example using the bible. A book that is completely a human book which you believe is a divine book as example to show you that your religion and the book you call the word of God is nothing but the work of men.

I told you that a book is different from the idea which every right thinking person knows except you for obvious reasons.

So the bible is different from the Jesus is God idea? What guides you as a christian and where do you get your instructions as a christian. Is it through the bible or from Jesus Himself?

Now right here you say It's of divine origin so cannot be proven but I thought you first said it was a man made idea so how come it is now of divine origin?

What did I say is of divine origin and can not be proven. You've started telling lies abi? What did I say is of divine origin and can not be proven. Tell me pls.

[Plus right here you said its of divine origin even though you also in confusion claimed it is man made yet attributed man to being the one who fostered the divine when man has no divine traits in him as you an atheist claims. So where did these divine thoughts then come from since man isn't divine and empirically has no links to the divine (according to you atheists)?

What did I say is of divine origin because I don't know or understand what you are talking about. Where and when did I say anythingis of divine origin? Lie lie don dey smell.

Make up your mind already! Each one of your comments are stakes to your own heart.

You need to learn to first read your comments, then compare them to your previous comments, make sure they do not cancel out each other before you click the submit button.

You need to show me that you understand my comments. Begin by showing me where I said anything is of divine origin.

BlueAngel444:
Even if I told you, or went as far as taking you, would you even recognise Him and by what standard would you validate my claim

Just tell me where he is and tell me how I will be able to recognize and know that it's him and differentiate it from some other phenomenon. It's very simple . How were you able to know God and also diffrentiate it from other phenomenon?

butterflylion:
From saying Christianity is strictly faith based you are now saying Christianity is not faith based alone.

All you wrote up there are simply goalposts shifting.

You say so many conflating comments you do not even know when you fall off the bang wagon.

Your case keeps getting struck out with your own hands.

You are simply shouting Christianity is a man made religion and have forgotten so quickly that with your own words you also said atheism is a man made idea.

Obviously if Christianity is man made and you ran from it to atheism which you have confessed to also being man made and then claimed that atheism is right while Christianity is wrong when you claimed that both are man made then people need to check your level of sanity because your confusion is alarmingly shocking.

Kingebukasblog take note again!

Where did I say christianity is strictly faith based? You've started making things up. The God idea is what I said is faith based.

Both christianity and atheism are man made inventions. That is a fact . Is any of them of divine origin? If yes then state it's divine origin and how it orginated divinely without human input.

CatfishBilly:
The Bible is a book of fiction, so I can quote from the Bible same way I can quote from Animal Farm.

Yet of you tell him that he believes in the mythical and fictional writings of other humans he'll start crying baa, baa, meh, meh.

BlueAngel444:
Atheists, godless or god-haters

Your foolish is your unavoidable confusion the moment you said in your heart their is no God in an attempt to be free of Him.

weldone, but first answer me this

Prove your existence based on agreeable facts you have discovered and not from anyone nor by believing what you've been told?(your ignorance is your arrogance in failing to admit that what you claim to know was told to you by another pitiable soul that knows not the truth - take it from a devil that became an angel!)

Where is God?

butterflylion:
Kingebukasblog he does it again!

Dalaman your case has been struck out already by your own hands.

If Christianity is faith based and you denounced it, how did you do this as well since you say you cannot provide empirical evidence? Is it also not via faith that you deny God or gods existence?

I need you to critically look at what I just wrote and tell me if I am wrong. Your very words show I am right because you rejected a faith based idea which you already assumed had no evidence yet you claimed God is a man made idea.

You are only digging the proverbial dagger deeper into your own heart with your own hands.

From prosecutor you became defence and now you have become a judge and jury.

Only you?

Christianity isn't faith based alone. It makes specific claims about the universe, history of humans, how the world will end and the reason why humans act in specific ways. It also claims that if you subscribe to the belief system there are things that you will do that will differentiate you from those that do not subscribe to the belief system. Saying that christianity is faith based alone is a copout. It is not. Christianity has a history. The only thing christianity has never provided is tangible evidence for its God. We can look at its claims and disprove it based on that.

For example it's history alone shows that it is a man made religion like all the others.

As for God being a man made idea, I've already provided you with evidence. There are many different Gods that humans have invented through out their history. You were indoctrinated and made to believe in just one out of the many. You weren't provided with any tangible evidence before you believed. You were only indoctrinated systematically to accept the teachings and doctrines of a man made religion. Christianity is a man made religion and that is a fact same with Islam, Taoism etc.

Faith is simply defined as deeply held beliefs based on convictions rather than proof. But it can be falsified. We can go to the bible and I will show you that some specific words/ claims of Jesus and the promises he made are NOT true. If I can do that then I have falsified the faith based claim. It's that simple.

When christian apologist try to defend christianity they don't use faith based arguments . They try to use convincing arguments and evidence to support their claims not faith based arguments because they know that faith based arguments are useless. It will not even convince them.

butterflylion:
Kingebukasblog he just buried his own case.

You guys must have been having some great fun with this particular atheist. He is dumb with a capital D for Dalaman.

This fool has just stated he believes in some experience (human imaginations) Is here talking thrash.

God is something that is based on BELIEF. it is not something that is based on anything tangible. Believe in God is not based on proof because there is none. You weren't provided with any tangible proof about the dead Jewish hippie before you foolishly believe that he created the universe or that he is coming back on a flying horse to send you and those that accept that made delusion into some imaginary heaven.

Why ask me for tangible proof over an idea that begins and ends with faith? We all know how your Jesus God idea started in history. It was completely a man made up idea. Men did everything from the formulating the stories, to the creation of the religion and it's theology and doctrines. You want pictures and proof. Ok provide the ones you were provided with that convinced you then I'll provide you with mine.

butterflylion:
It's obvious you cannot see your hypocrisy and error right before you.

Atheism is also man made that is why there are many variants of atheism. Can atheism exist on its own without human input?

You said God is a man made construct yet cannot show empirically, evidence supporting this claim but quickly said/inferred that "proof does not necessarily need to be demonstrated in a specific way" .

What you just did was to defend both theism and atheism in one fell swoop. You became prosecutor and defence at the same time and a judge would definitely call you stupid.

Of course atheism is a man made entity just like theism. On this thread you tried to mock an atheist for quoting from the bible a book written by humans and complained by humans through votes over a period of time. To you the bible a completely human made book is the word of some elusive God.

Evidence doesnt have to be demonstrated in a specific way. I asked you for the same evidence you are requesting from me but you ran away from it. Lets cut the chase from here was well. You are a God believer and a christian. Show me the pictures and dates about God that you were provided with as proof before you believed. I need them so that I will be able to provie you with what you want.

So provide me the pictures and dates that you were shown as proof that convinced you, since you refused to accept my evidence then I'll immediately provide you with the pictures dates and evidence that you want.

butterflylion:
Cut to the chase Mr. You have nothing to back up your claims with Afterall according to you, "evidence does not necessarily need to be proven in a specific way".

I am sure if you look hard enough you would see the irony in those words of yours.

I have everything to back up my claim. No God can be shown to exist on its own without human input. If you know any God that exist on its own without human input point to it and the belief system it created on its own.

If you believe in God then show us the tangible evidence you were provided with before you accepted tell belief. If you can't then you shouldn't be asking me that nonsense.

butterflylion:
Jumbo dumbo, you said if we went to court with an argument ba? The person who took us to court was dalaman when he claimed God was a man made idea and not me.

That very moment he dragged us to court. My opinions do not matter because I made none. His opinions matter because he made such a claim.

So a Judge would determine that he who made the claim should justify it with evidence.

Now he has been asked for specific proof and he ended up saying that "proof does not necessarily need to be demonstrated in a specific way". Thereby defending both atheists and theists unknowingly and any judge who sees this way of reasoning would call dalaman chronically stupid.

I've already made my claims and provided evidence. All Gods are man made that is why there are many different Gods and religions created after different cultures. No God can be shown to exist on its own without human input. If you know any God that exist on its own without human input point and show it to us. It's very simple.

butterflylion:
Kingebukasblog how do you cope with this fellow? I am witnessing goal post shifting happening live right here.

Dalaman what has my belief got to do with your claim? Did you ask for it before you made your claim? Besides your claim was purely atheistic so you do not need a theistic view before you can authenticate yours.

My opinion matters not here. Not even remotely. Your claim is all there is.

Names, pictures, dates! I dey wait.

Your beliefs have everything to do with the questions you are asking. I said that no God can be shown to exist on its own without human input. You disagreed and I told you to show me the God that exist on its own without human input and the belief system it created on its own. Then you went on a rant that I should provide pictures and dates for my assertion about God being a man made idea. Since I am discussing with you specifically then I will also want to know if you believe in God or not. If you do then you should also provide the picture evidence and dates you were provided with before you believe so that I can know the exact type of pictures and dates to give you. If you don't believe in God then move along.

Waiting for you to show me the God that exist on its own without human input and the belief system if created on its own which was the first question I asked you and also the picture evidence you were provided with before you believed. If you can't provide it then stop asking me to provide that which you can't. Because I asked you first.

butterflylion:
So proof does not necessarily need to be demonstrated In a specific way ba? Kingebukasblog kindly take note.

He is empty so has nothing to show for his claim.

Do you believe in God? Yes or no?

butterflylion:
For the last time listen. I made no claims you did!

I am not on the quest to convince you, you are on the quest to convince me!

Your claim is not about me because that is one of the reasons you (not me) became an atheist. So show me proof of this?

Rather than do this, you are looking for my own evidence when I have said and done absolutely nothing.

You well so?

Pictures, names, dates! I dey wait.

I can play your games as well. Do you believe in God? If yes then provide the tangible proof you were provided with before you believed. If no, then I have nothing to discuss with you.

butterflylion:
It seems your head first wakes up and it takes 12 hours for your common sense to wake up alongside.

When did I categorically say I believe in God on this thread? I could believe in an impersonal God can I not? For that I do not need dates or pictures or anything but my reasoning. Atheism isn't like that. Atheism is proof based due to its sceptical nature.

So you cannot speak for me. You need to speak for yourself as an atheist and how can you do this? You need to provide empirical evidence to your claim of God being a man made idea.

I dey wait.

If you believe in an impersonal God that doesn't require any evidence then why should I provide you with any evidence.? You don't need any. By the way proof doesn't need to be only in pictures and dates. I've already provided historical proof. So stop speaking for me as well. As an atheist you aren't the one to tell me what to take as evidence or proof. Just speak for yourself alone.

butterflylion:
I am sure you know the difference between history (which you atheists claim can be falsified) and actual tangible evidence such as names, dates and pictures ba?

Stop playing ignorant and just do the needful. I did not ask you for history so get to work with what I specifically demanded for.

Did you provide us with any tangible evidence to show us why you believe in God? Were you provided with tangible picture and date evidence before believing?

KingEbukasBlog:
I strongly believe that people who indulge in these vices , perpetrators of evil works are atheists . Atheists have no foundation of morality so even bigotry , hatred , murder can been seen as good to them , it is arbitrary . Are you telling me that the South African pastor who forces people to eat grass is a Christian ? I think he is an atheist amusing himself with his ability to control innocent minds based on humans' predisposition to believe in anything elevated , supernatural , mysterious etc .

Using religion or spirituality to mask your subterfuges or manipulations is open to anyone .

Thankfully your beliefs and thoughts are always false, so you can keep believeing and thinking what ever you like since they are always false.

butterflylion:
I think you need to revisit the earlier parts of this thread and convince yourself with that, that the claim of God being a man made idea first fell from your Olodo perfused mouth. Hence why you need to defend your claim via evidence and not seeking the evidence from someone else in defence of your silly claim.

In the midst of all I just typed the meaning of Olodo is embedded in it for you to decipher for yourself.

Where are the pictures and dates you were provided with as proof before you believe in God? Where are they?

butterflylion:
Yep! He surely made an extraordinary claim of God being a man made idea so he needs to support same with extraordinary evidence which was why I specifically asked for names, dates and pictures.

When the mirror is turned on them they resort to name calling such as his overly zealous Olodo rant.

I've done that already. There is no one God. There are different ideas and concepts of God that is why there are many different Gods and religions. Your Jesus God was invented by the early church fathers whose names and the role they played in creating the theology , christian doctrines and religion tradition as a whole is well known. They started creating the religion years after the Jesus chsracter died by writing down fictional and mythical stories about him and elevating his status as God over time at their various meetings and councils. Everything about the Jesus God started like 2000 years ago before then there was no Jesus God anywhere. Allah God came around like 1600 years ago by Mohammed and his cronies. The deist movement and idea started recently in the United states. If you are a Nigerian then your own ancestors has their own ideas and conception of God they invented as well. Ifa and Olurun the God that sent Oduduwa is an example.

butterflylion:
You take your rants of Olodo too seriously. An Olodo is someone who is unable to match his reasoning with his writing.

You made a claim of God being a man made idea so match that claim with proof namely, names, pictures and dates otherwise your Olodo rant is actually you addressing yourself.

Note: an Olodo is the person who can assume a book is same as the idea contained in it. You mentioned idea and suddenly you are switching to a book.

Well I am waiting for your evidence to your claim.

Again what is this Olodo saying? I gave you a simple task which is to show me any God that exist on its own without human input in my first reply to you. If you show me the picture you were provided of any God or give me the dates you were shown as proof he established the universe and crateed things before you believed then I'll equally provide my own pictures, and dates. Provide the pictures and dates you were shown as proof of God before you believed.

butterflylion:
Listen carefully. I want to see your evidence you have for God being a man made idea. Not theory or history but actual evidence.

When you can or cannot provide that then we will delve into the purpose or lack of behind creation. Let's take it a step at a time shall we?

I dey wait.

What is this Olodo saying? Have you ever provided any evidence for God outside human history, theories, imaginations and make belief? When you provide actual evidence for God that is outside human imaginations, history and make belief only then will I begin to assume you are not a big Olodo and you have an idea of what you are talking about. That is why I've told you to show me any God that exist on it's own without human input. Instead of doing that the Olodo is crying baaa, baaa, meh meh. Olodo!

What is the purpose or lack of it behind creation apart from the imaginations you have been indoctrinated with by others? You take your deluded opinions too seriously.

butterflylion:
One confused one with the moniker catfishbilly while trying to defend his atheistic opinion on another thread had to quote from the Bible. He quoted from Mathew 7:6

"Do not give what is holy to dogs, and do not throw pearls before swine ...."

I had to remind him that the swine there was actually referring to people like him (an atheist) and atheists do not run to the Bible for defence. Same thing they reject he ran to for assertion!

If I tell you you worship ideas and conception of other men you'll start baaing. Is the bible not a book written by humans? Olodo.

butterflylion:
I see! He said in his atheist testimony that he is now an unapologetic atheist so you are right. When one rejects creationism he then subconsciously replaces it with an alternative such as an eternal universe.

When did God create the universe, why, when and for what purpose? Use God alone and answer these questions since you claim that creationism is true. Tell me when, why and how God created the universe. Use God alone and explain these things to me. After all you claimed that your God is an experince. I believe you also speak with this God so speak to this God and give me the answer. When, where, why and how did he create the universe. Let's startfrom there.

But wait Dalaman, if the universe is eternal and you are also a part of this eternal universe, shouldn't you also be eternal?

So what part of you is as eternal as the eternal universe? Or what part of you would or could be eternal?

Where have I stated that the universe is eternal? My position is that nobody knows if the universe is eternal or not and there is no clear cut evidence to show that, all we have are only postulations and speculations.

If you insist that the universe was created then you'll have to provide incontrovertible evidence to show that this God you are referring to is the one that created the universe. By evidence I mean something that is as clear as possible, something that who ever see it will agree and come to the same conclusion.

butterflylion:
Let me teach you how claims are defended.

Person A (dalaman) makes a claim.
What was the claim? (God and all gods are man made ideas)

He would be required to provide evidence for this as deemed fit by those whom he made such claims to.

So here is the evidence I seek from you dalaman.

I want the name or names and pictures of those who originated this God idea you claim. And I also want the date this idea began.

Can you do this?

I have already provided my evidence already.

There is no God that can be shown to exist without human input. Your Jesus God was invented by the gentile disciples of Jesus and early Church fathers. The mostly unknown disciples wrote down the fictitious stories about him while the early church fathers created the theology and formulated the bible which they called the word of God through votes. The books of the new testament were voted by men to be included in the canon. Those that were discarded were thrown away and labelled as something other than the word of God.

Before the church fathers and the early unknown disciples of Jesus decided to invent the stories and create the theology and religion that elevated a Jewish hippie to the status of God, there was nothing like Jesus God that existed any where. Your God remains a man made entity. I'll only take you seriously and accept that you are not an olodo when you show me any God and the belief system the God created ALONE without any human input. Oya go ahead.