butterflylion: You cannot force anything out of me. You believe in science and science is already showing that consciousness exists outside the brain as I have shown you.
You need to pause and stop being shallow and actually think. If nothing should jump start your thinking process then my post about 11 dimensional structures being found in a 3 dimensional brain when a 3 dimensional stimuli cannot generate an 11 dimensional response from the brain should have forced you to actually do some thinking as a supposed critical thinking atheist but instead of engaging your thought process you would rather sweep such a huge significant find aside simply because you wish to keep arguing.
What generates consciousness? Tell me what it is and stop dancing around your long tail.
butterflylion: This your comment shows you are not a critical thinker and also not a scientific mind.
Despite all I keep saying, and you keep reading, you keep repeating this?
That is because you are NOT saying anything meaningful or relevant to the question am asking. You claimed that consciousness is generated outside the brain by a source. All I've asked you to do is tell me what generates it, and state this elusive source you have been talking about. Simple question. What generates consciousness?
butterflylion: so suddenly mathematics does not provide evidence simply because you do not see it? Are mathematical equations real or are the results real?
That's what the quote meant by balancing things. Mathematics are simply calculations which help confirm something intangible and brings it to tangibility.
butterflylion: Gosh! Let me break it down. The brain is a reaction and processing unit. It reacts to what we see, touch, feel, hear etc and builds structures which can handle such external stimuli.
The Brain is a 3 dimensional machine which it has become due to our restriction to 3 dimensional assessment and visualisation.
However an 11 dimensional response structure was found to reside in the brain and since the brain only builds structures based on information stimulating it then something beyond our known 3 dimensional exposure is causing this 11 dimensional response.
Our world does not have 5D to 11D stimulations so the brain could not have developed those 11 dimensional structural responses in its neurons on its own. It came from a source above our 3 dimensional world.
That is as simple as I can put it and if you still do not understand it then good luck
What generates consciousness and how can it be clearly demonstrated is what you are to provide evidence for not telling me something bla bla bla. Something? What is the thing? What's it's name? How can it be clearly verified? What is this source you are speculating?
butterflylion: I think you are beginning to mock yourself. Clearly you read where I said science is beginning to tow the line that consciousness isn't brain based and here you are trying to force me to tell you where consciousness comes from.
Don't worry, the ground breaking research was published just in June 2017 so evidence would follow soon for you that consciousness isn't brain based.
Do you actually "originate" your thoughts from your brain or your brain simply processes them? Is it everything you want to think about that comes as you want them or a lot of other undesired thoughts also come along but your brain simply chooses what you want from all that mess.
You wake up in the morning and the thought "coffee" pops into your head without you thinking about it. Your brain begins to process the information and you suddenly feel a longing for coffee and your brain decides how coffee is prepared and you get up and make yourself one. All this happens in Nano seconds but you can actually freeze the process by asking yourself questions in the moment like, "but I do not need coffee so why am I thinking about it"?.
Ogbeni what generates consciousness is what you are to tell me. What is the name of the thing that generates it, how can it be clearly demonstrated. These are what you are to provide answers to not writing epistles about coffee. What generates consciousness? Tell me the name of the thing and how it can be demonstrated. It's simple.
butterflylion: I do not think you understood that quote. This was what it meant. For the limits of science these abstractions do not exist but they can be mathematically calculated because mathematics isn't limited to tangible things so they aid to bring balance when physical formulas are wrong.
What am I to do with your opinions? This is what it says:
Note that extra mathematical dimensions are pure abstractions; they do not actually exist, except to make formulas balance up when the formula is otherwise WRONG!
I can read and understand clearly. I do not need your opinions and interpretations.
butterflylion: By the way, the brain is 3 dimensional and that is a fact and not a claim. However they discovered that this same brain creates 11 dimensions within itself and the questions is WHY?
what would make the brain create 11 dimensional walls in its information centre when physically there is no reason to do that since it only receives 3 dimensional stimuli.
So why the 11 dimensional wall? Could it be that it is receiving an 11 dimensional stimuli from another source outside its physical 3 dimensional stimuli?
There is a huge gap between 3D and 11D and if 3D still blows our mind today then imagine what 10D or 11D would do. It would be like unlocking the full potentials of the brain and being able to see everything from the front, back, side, top, bottom, in between, inside out, outside in, in colours that do not physically exist, and calculating all these information at the same time.
Something else is causing an 11 dimensional stimuli on the brain.
The dimensions were clearly stated to be be mathematical abstracts from the link you posted. They do not actually exist in reality. They are just mathematical abstracts.
You are to provide evidence not speculations of could it would it should it. I don't have any interest in your own opinions and speculations. The evidence of what generates consciousness is what you are to provide not mathematical abstracts, opinions and wild imaginations. You made the claim to provide evidence for your speculations and assumptions. What is is this elusive source? What's it's name and how can it be clearly verified? I don't want your opinions.
What we have up there are just speculations. They claim the brain is 3 dimensional and there are other mathematical dimensional plains. They even concluded with this:
Note that extra mathematical dimensions are pure[b] abstractions[/b]; they do not actually exist, except to make formulas balance up when the formula is otherwise WRONG!
What am I to do with wild speculations? What generates consciousness is what you are to show not throwing wild mathematical abstract and imaginations at me.
butterflylion: I do not think you read where I said science is evidential while not everything is tangible.
Where is the scientific evidence that shows that consciousness is generated outside the brain and how has that been clearly demonstrated scientifically?
butterflylion: The problem with you is that you think too highly of yourself and always try to convince yourself that what you say is actually true. Here you are claiming I ran away when I told you on another thread that I would respond to you on my own time and not based on your demand. The below post is for you.
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We can see that science is also taking the posture of consciousness not being brain based because thought isn't confines to the brain yet the brain processes thought whenever it pops up which is similar to what Rupert Sheldrake said that the brain is like a radio set that receives and interpreted signals but does not generate them.
I know that even you, a lot of times you have woken up happy and full of good thoughts but out of nowhere a negative thought just pops into your head and you cannot understand why you are having such a thought despite being positively happy.
Or when you are driving down the road and fully concentrated on your driving and then suddenly a thought pops into your head that you need to call someone (without you even thinking about it) the thought just pops up from nowhere.
I am sure if you sit down and think about it, you will discover I am right.
Which science? You just threw quotes at me without links. What am I to do with them? Where are the links to your post?
I asked you to show me what generates consciousness and how it can be clearly demonstrated. You haven't done that but throw more wild assumptions from who knows where claiming it's science. Where did you get those quotes from? Next time make sure you post the source where you lift your materials.
butterflylion: The VAT majority of science assume that consciousness resides within the brain and that is simply because science is based on what we can see, touch, hear and feel so anything outside that boundary is discarded as they have no equipment or parameters to study them and that is another reason why they still question NDE.
Where is your own evidence to show that consciousness is generated outside the brain and how can that be clearly demonstrated? You have to provide evidence for your own assumptions as well. What generates consciousness? It's very easy to make wild and empty claims.
CatfishBilly: The vast majority of science is of the agreement that consciousness resides squarely in the Central nervous system. There's no out of body consciousness that's separated from the brain. It has never been proven last I researched.
I was surprised when butterflylion came up with his empty and baseless claim that has no evidence at all. I asked him to provide evidence and he ran away.
shadeyinka: Thank God there is a sane person on board.
I am not insinuating that the First Iron Smelting was from a Spiritual Source, but the complexity is amazing.
All evidence seem to point to the fact that man learnt the art from a non-human but advanced society..and that all human cultures try to recreate with the available material what they have seen these cultures do.
Some say extraterrestrials! Some say demons/fallen angels Some say hybrids of fallen angels and men(nephillims).
I take no definite stand here. But the similarities of the Process of Iron Smelting all over the world from China to Japan to Africa (you need to watch the video I posted for the guy above) is too striking. If just one of the essential is missen, iron can never be smelted
Didn't know that you are one of those that believe aliens came into earth and shared their technological know how with humans.
PastorAIO: Yes, I believe that consciousness can exist without the brain.
I don't believe that anybody has demonstrated consciousness without or without a certified dead brain. I do not believe that even you have demonstrated any 'conscious ability'.
although I suspect that you and I are talking about different things when we refer to Consciousness.
Pls explain what you mean by consiouness so that I can understand what you are talking about.
shadeyinka: Tell me just one experiment you have done before. Your lack of comprehension is disturbing.
Experimentation for what? If I get you, The first blacksmith said: "let's try what will happen when we take soil, coke, limestone, charcoal and heat it for up to seven hours at a temperature of 1300oC. We might get something out o!"
And of all soils, they stumbled across Iron ore And They found coke: and not cocacola And They found limestone and not granite And Coal or Hardwood Charcoal and not just something else And They just knew that five hours of straight firing will not do, that they have to endure for 2-3 more hours.
And then, when the iron finally melted, they just knew that it is a useless mass that needed to be taken back to the furnace, heated to about 800 oC and then hammered repeatedly until much of the excess carbon is squeezed out and then, it can be forged into implements.
Of all soils: how did they know the one that contained iron (which had never been seen)?
You don't get it! The process isn't something you just stumble across.
I don't want to continue this conversation with you after this lecture on the process (suitable for any lay person)
We don't know exactly how the first iron smelting began, but we we do know is that it was a human discovery. I believe it was a cumulative knowledge that was gotten over time. I've asked you to tell me how the knowledge was gotten and you've refused to answer.
This video might enlighten you. How do you think this primitive people discovered each of the constituent and sequence to make iron. NOTE: They didn't know that Iron is part of the periodic table. They do not know about chemical reactions.
Did they do any experiment? For what?
How won't they? Humans have been smelting iron for a very long time. Where do you suggest they got the knowledge from?
shadeyinka: I believe you know why I rested my case with him. He doesn't understand that the several variables cannot come by luck but require the right information.
Thanks
Where did I claim they came by luck? It's a human discovery. That's all there is to it.
bloodofthelamb: BELOVE! I WAS A SINNER THROUGH INHERITANCE..THE ADAMIC DISOBEDIENCE WAS PASSED UNTO ME THROUGH BIRTH..CHRIST DIED TO FREE ME FROM THE ADAMIC FALLEN LINEAGE BUT NOT ONLY ME, EVERYONE WHO WILL BELIEVE IN HIM WILL ALSO BE FREED..I PRAY CHRIST GIVES YOU UNDERSTANDING..AMEN
So you inherited sin from some mythical and fictitious Jewish man abi? How can an African inherit anything from some mythical Jewish man?
bloodofthelamb: BELOVE! CHRIST JESUS SO LOVE YOU THAT HE ACCEPTED TO BE CRUCIFIED FOR YOU AND FOR ME AS WELL SO THAT WE WILL HAVE HIS VERY LIFE THAT CAN NEVER BE DESTROYED...I PRAY THAT OUR GRACIOUS LORD WILL GIVE YOU UNDERSTANDING, IN JESUS NAME AMEN
What did you do that Jesus accepted to be crucified for you? What specifically did you do? Tell me pls.
In as much as we know the topic is not about oxygen, if we tell you to explain the origin of oxygen.... You may become the sheeple and you will start telling stories.
The speed with which you atheists run to claim debunk up and down without making any attempts at reading or doing a proper research is simply a clear demonstration of how stupid and desperate you all are.
I pre-empted all of you and the source of your claims of debunk this and that and if you had bothered to take just 10 minutes to read this thread you would have seen that the links you posted have already been debunked on this thread as far back as page 1. If you couldn't read even the first page before posting this rubbish then I am not shocked at your desperation and stupidity.
sonofthunder: I doubt dalaman fully understands shadeyinka's point...
He is saying that there is something strikingly similar I iron smelting all over the world and it's amazing where they all learned the science. My ppint is that it's not that complicated since it's a human invention. People have been using oil to light their lamps in different parts of the world even papyrus to write on. Different civilizations discovered them separately and made us of them in similar ways.
Christianity Etc › Re: Atheists Who Believe In The Supernatural Please Come In(discussion) by dalaman: 9:58am On Aug 24, 2017
