₦airaland Forum

vaxx:
do you watch the video. be honest

That's why I was astonished that you said he lost.

vaxx:
i agree with you, he do not present his case well and maybe he is just a poor debater . losing a debate does not make him less scholar, but it is one way we all can learn from each other.

he clearly won the dabate, read the comments from the people in the YouTube video. Majority agree that he won. His opponent lost the debate.

hopefulLandlord:
Its easy to say "He lost by a wide margin" but debates aren't football that the final score shows how wide the loss was so I'm taken aback by how you got to that conclusion

about "Other people can confirm" it holds no water as I'm sure there are other people that can confirm the opposite. infact about 99% of the comments that appear below the link of the video you posted all said David Marshall lost by a wide margin!

However you can tell us how exactly he lost. what major points did David bring up that Marshall failed to address AND vice versa. it should be very easy since you just watched of today and its still fresh in your memory

Am very suprised that vax is saying Richard lost when even by the comments that people dropped you can see very clearly that majority of the people that dropped comments said that he won and his opponent lost. Did we watch the same debate or did Vax watch something else because am totally confused.

vaxx:
i just watch it today.and he dully lost. others people can confirm

I just watched the debate and I can say that no such thing happened. Richard in fact won the debate hands down. Tell me how he lost point by point.

Image123:
Jesus didn't tell anyone to order people around, in fact, it is the other way round, what He preached. What your hero did has no biblical base or resemblance. Face the truth, stop being shy, you can repent. Jesus lied and blah blah blah but you spend years trying to convince yourself and others so gullible on that. You'd simply die if you stopped mentioning the name i suppose.

Jesus told him nothing will be impossible for him. He decided to exercise that believe. You lack that belief as such you keep trying to reinvent what was written because you know it's a lie.

vaxx:
dalaman, i am watching Richard career debate now with David Marshall which took place in Alabama, i will like you to see how he lost the debate with a wide gap.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ooXCaMwTGD8




well. i am yet to read the review of his work . he was educated at Colombia university interesting.

Losing a debate means he isn't a scholar or what?

Some people are just poor debaters and don't know how to master and utilize debating tricks.

Richard is a very poor debater, something he himself has acknowledged before.

Image123:
The fellow in the video did what you(a sinner) wants, not what Jesus or any of the biblical heroes of faith did or would do. You are like a Chinese person insisting on the meaning of an Hausa proverb to an Hausa man. You don't know Jesus, you are not a believer, you don't follow the Bible. Listen to those that know. You waste your time trying to be more catholic than the Pope.

The guy in the video did what Jesus told him he'll be able to do, which is false.

You know that Jesus lied and you are just trying to reinterpret and give meaning to his false promise. Biblical heros were are told even stopped the sun from moving and were able to part the sea using a rod among other incredible feat. Even Jesus did so many incredible wonders and promised those that believe in him the ability to do more than he did if only the believe in him. You know it's a lie that's why you are always go in shameless excuses.

budaatum:
I disagree. Jesus did not lie. Or rather, what is written about Jesus doings is not a lie. Humans are doing so much more than he is written to have done, including, raising the dead, feeding millions with tiny resources, and healing the amputee!

How many amputees do you know that have been healed in the name of Jesus?

vaxx:
lol. am doing it for the purpose of everybody on this thread who will be interested. since you claim the man did wrote an established book that counter the existence of Jesus, you should be able to name the book the author wrote. that will be interesting. remember this is a discussion forum not classroom . WHAT IS THE NAME OF THE BOOK.

OK.

The tittle of the book is "On the historicity of Jesus: Why we might have reason for doubt.

Written by Richard Carrier. He is a well respected scholar and has debated people like William Craig(who only debates scholars ).

hopefulLandlord:
So true bro, so true

About your sickness example, if that person who went to elders "get better" and she comes to church to give testimony about how she refused to go to the hospital but simply prayed and got healed. these same Christians that would've criticised her if her situation got worse would be the same hailing the testimony and saying the person applied "biblical principles". They always chose the most convenient side after the fact

If the person comes and shares a testimony that she was healed (which mostly happens after the person have used medication at home) they'll say the person applied biblical principles, if it fails as it mostly does, then the person lacks wisdom and wasn't suppose to take what was written literally.

It's always a win win situation for them with their dubious ways.

vaxx:
yet, you still do not answer my question? what is the name of his book. let start from there

What do you want? He has many books. You can check them out on the website. Are you that lazy?

hopefulLandlord:
I think Christians that agree there's really nothing that can only happen to non Christians should take their time to correct the wrong preachings by pastors and evangelists

When you hear preachers preaching they'll tell you about how your life in Jesus would be sweet, how all your problems would go away or at least your life would improve if you accept a Jew killed by three nails in a Small Israeli village aeons ago died for your sins. This is what preachers and evangelists preach. Infact they'll say the issues you're going through are there because you lack Jesus and haven't given your life to him, they use real life examples like
"You've been struggling and can't make ends meet"
"Your mates are making it and they've left you behind"
"your marriage has been barren, no children"
"You can't get a spouse, they're all turning your proposals down or they're not proposing (for the women)"
"you lost your job"
"You're fighting a disease, your health is deteriorating. doctors have given you just a few more years to live"

They tell listeners Jesus is the answer, they'll then cite examples of people who've been married for years with no children but pregnancy came almost as soon as they gave their lives to Christ. examples of people who's business boomed as soon as they accepted Jewish mythology. They'll talk about a jobless person who got a high paying job as soon as he accepted zombies rose out of their graves and walked around Jerusalem. They'll talk about how they drove a car from Ore to Lagos on empty tank because they believed Jesus flew bodily out of earth

They'll spice it up with testimony time where people would come out and say they dodged a bullet by the power of a Jew amongst many other ridiculous stories


This is the Christianity preachers and evangelists sell to the non Christians and they get a few members here and there from such messages but such converts finds out very quickly that this new Awesome life in Christ falls far short of some kind of divinely orchestrated masterpiece. They have that sickness, their businesses are still failing, they still haven't gotten the child, their marriage is still unloving, still no fiancé or fiancée, still can't get jobs etc. infact their problems didn't disappear but probably got worse. Jesus is supposed to be divinely guiding their new lives from morning pee to dreamland and everything in between, but it seems that the Christians have a "plain ole life" just like all the heathen and unbelievers. infact there's NO difference between their former lives and this new one


I'm of the opinion that those Christians that think the way these preachers package and sell Christianity is wrong owe it to Jesus to pushback against it and call out these preachers for not preaching the way its supposed to be

I've said it many times before that the way Christians talk to each other about their faith is totally different from the way they talk when they encounter atheist.

When talking to each other they repeat all what you've stated while beating their chest, but when cornered by the atheist they always throw the bible under the bus or deny that which they proclaim and try to run away from it.

They will clearly tell each other that God will never forsake them because they are his children or he always has answers to their situation and wont let them down, he'll always shield them from troubles and dangers etc, but when an atheist ask them for practical examples they deny everything they've said or stood for and start crying that you are carnal bla bla bla. That's the escape tactics they use always to keep deluding themselves.

Most Christians are not true believers. When they see a fellow Christian that is truly displaying his/her faith they begin to berate the person, for example when they see a Christian that refuses to go to the hospital and chooses to obey what the Bible says by going to the church elders or simply believing that Jesus will heal him/ her when he/she prays and it fails like it always does, they'll start crying that the bible didn't actually mean what it says or that the Christians were foolish and lack wisdom or some other silly excuse that they always throw around.

vaxx:
this embarrassing pls. the proof is on you

https://www.richardcarrier.info

That's his personal website. You'll see all the books he has written there.

vaxx:
his book name pls

Google him up.

Martinez19:
No matter what tragedy a christian faces, other christians are fond of saying "God hasn't/never/can't/will never abandon you" seriously, let's take a look at some examples.

CHRISTIAN: I lost my whole family in a car accident.
ANOTHER CHRISTIAN:"God hasn't/never/can't/will never abandon you"

CHRISTIAN: I have spent five years in jail for something I didn't do and I have seven more years to go.
ANOTHER CHRISTIAN:"God hasn't/never/can't/will never abandon you"

THOMAS: the doctor said I have stomach cancer.
ANOTHER CHRISTIAN:"God hasn't/never/can't/will never abandon you"

**** Four months later Thomas is dead ****

THOMAS'S SON: My dad died of stomach cancer
ANOTHER CHRISTIAN:"God hasn't/never/can't/will never abandon you"

For logic's sake, the same can be made for gods of other religion and I am sure if all these happened to a Muslim, many christians will laugh at the muslim god's inefficiency forgetting that their's isn't better.

Can any christian on Nairaland tell me what, in this life, can happen to someone who god has abandoned that can't happen to someone who God hasn't abandoned?

This is their coping mechanism. It's just a lie they tell themselves so that they can make sense out if their pet superstitions and keep believing in it.

If you ask them a direct question as you've doNE, all they can do is to come and try to redefine everything and now tell you why their God doesn't act or acts in a particular way. They will try to redefine everything and reinvent or add new meanings to things just so that they can explain absurdity away as they always do.

Can someone explain this to me? Because I am not understanding this story even after reading it twice.

awesomeJ:
Even the Bible that you think is fiction has records of atheists.

The fact is even if God should appear in the sky, you folks would still choose not to believe in his existence. You'd just regard him as some being, and also argue that there's no proof of Him being the only such being in space, and there's no proof that he authored creation.

How do I know this, well, since day in day out thousands of people experience the supernatural, yet the testimonies don't convince you, you're certainly lost and blinded beyond the fixing proofs can offer.

This past month, a woman was dead in Bayelsa for 12 days and had already been embalmed. Her brother prayed that she would rise back to life and she did -After 12 days!!!

If such a testimony doesn't convince you of the existence of God, certainly nothing else will. It then would seem that you're bounded by an oath to never believe in God no matter how convincing the evidence is that you're presented with.

Anyways, sha know hell is real, and it's a torment that'll last for more than a billion trillion years.

Love you sir, but God certainly does much more.

Stop telling sweet lies for Jesus.

hopefulLandlord:
at least All Christians would die if such a contest happens. infact majority of Christians would dump Christianity as the contest day draws near and start claiming agnostic or atheist or deist

Very true.

Gggg102:
but why can't we have another 'contest on mount Carmel' today?

it would go a long way in clearing the confusion of the numerous religions and their gods.

The story of Baal, Yahweh and his murderous prophet Elijah remains mythical.

vaxx:
JUST GIVE ME ONE, PLEASE ENSURE IT IS RELIABLE. I WILL SCRUTINIZE HIS WORK HERE just like i did to the op book. the discussion is about jesus, i care less about adam and moses. that was even around 3 thousand years before jesus.

Richard Carrier. He has a PhD in ancient history.

vaxx:
it is better to be open in such issues rather than come up with a conclusion that he did not exist. No true historians that have taken time to study the bible sequence in parallel with external information will be bold enough to say he never existed. there are other ways to attack Christianity rather than splitting this unfounded claim.

There are true historians that have stated that Jesus did not exist. Many biblical characters are not historical. From Adam down to Moses are not historical. Jesus himself has not been established to be a historical person with objective evidence, Jesus is said to exist as a historical person only based on assumptions.

GoodMuyis:
Nonsense coming out of bird's mouth,
Trash coming from opposition party,
If you dont have something better or new to say, why cant you be like your Brother S and be silent about God that does not exist.

(Prov 17:28 [KJV])
Even a fool(atheist), when he holdeth his peace, is counted wise: and he that shutteth his lips is esteemed a man of understanding.

Yahweh is a fool. Anybody that believes in Yahweh is also a fool.

Butterflyleo:
I believe your question should go to the OP and not to me. Besides if I were to be asked such a question as you just did then I would answer you by telling you to look to Gods word and the guidance of his spirit for it is the spirit of God which takes from God and reveals the will of God to us in accordance to his word.

When did any God appear to you PERSONALLY and tell you that he has any word? When where and how did that happen? Or did you just accept the words of other men hook line and sinker that claimed to.speak for a particularversion and idea of God they imagined?

You started by claiming in your first post that atheist think they can reason for God then you then went ahead to do the very same thing. You reasoned for your God and served as his mouth piece using your own reasoning as to why he does things or allow them. I keep telling you that if your God exist as advertised you will never be his mouth piece. You are only projecting what you feel God should do and dishing it out to us as if it means anything.

This is one thing an atheist does not have knowledge or insight into so when they try to "analyse" why God does what he does they do so from the position of their carnal selves and thus miss the entire plot totally yet deceive themselves into thinking they are right in their empty reasoning.


Yet an atheist seems to think he knows how God thinks and operates.

Common sense isn't truly common.

All.these are empty platitudes the inventors of your God use to keep people quiet and in line. They know the God they advertise does not act as they want it to act so they lie to themselves and others that his ways are not like theirs, when a simple reading of the bible shows that not to be true. The God of the bible that in some places calls humans to reason with him is the same God that in other places says that his ways are not the same with that of humans. Contradictory nonsense. It's always one contradiction or the other laced with empty platitudes.

If common sense is common you won't be living your life hanging and depending on man made mythology and fictions as you do. Some ancient men invented a God idea and here you are grabbing it and depending on their fictional ideas totally, yet you still have the guts to say that common sense isn't common when you are the perfect example to show that it isn't.

vaxx:
then we should not be debating it then as if there is factual information that state he did not exist, it does not flawed the available assumptions that that state otherwise. unless we just want to be biased like the op.

I lean towards the assumption that he existed. Just that there isn't a very clear historical evidence for it as one will like.

vaxx:
Even the wikipedia page you provide could not come up with consensus agreement if he exist or not. and to read m further reply on this wikipedia page, go thru the thread i provide , a moniker by the name winret post the same page. fortunately my response was less biased or influence by christians interest. it is pure academic work. go thru it once again

That's the point. There is no consensus that he existed as a person historically or not. There are only assumptions that he did exist as a historical person.

vaxx:
let those who will not be bias visit the thread and confirm it by themselves. i do not know which kind of evidence you want but i guess a hundred percent evidence. i can tell you, it will not be possible. unless you can create your own reversed timing machine, that will throw you back to the century Jesus was reported to walk Jerusalem. apart from that, i can only provide you an insightful argument that pointed biblical Jesus once existed. And note this time there was no bio metric to capture his finger print nor computer to record his data which will have been used today either in form of birthday certificate or international passport. it was a medieval period. most reliable evidence will have are from those who report about him.

"
There is no physical or archaeological evidence for Jesus. All sources are documentary, mainly Christian writings, such as the gospels and the purported letters of the apostles. The authenticity and reliability of these sources has been questioned by many scholars, and few events mentioned in the gospels are universally accepted."

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_Jesus

vaxx:
go thru this thread below, i pointed out a lot of evidence of biblical Jesus that has been confirm to be real. what is yet to be confirm is the miracle and the virgin birth ascribe to him. which i speculate it might not be true. https://www.nairaland.com/4398649/why-should-not-bother-debate.

I've been through the thread. You haven't pointed out anything that shows historically that Jesus existed as a true historical figure, only some assumptions here and there.

vaxx:
sure, i also do not accept Jesus was born by virgin as reported. This can be an interpolation in the bible or the fabricated part. but saying the personality Jesus did not exist is flawed as available historical evidence state otherwise.

Where are the historical evidence that show the Jesus of the bible existed?

Image123:
Who am I berating, you? The kind of faith seen in the Bible, like Peter had, like David had, like Hezekiah had, like Esther had, like Stephen had. And Paul, and Timothy, John, and the woman with the issue of blood. That's faith. Get real faith and stop moaning like a possessed fowl.

The guy in the video is whom you are berating. Jesus said if you believe in him nothing will be impossible for you. Was he telling lies? You know you are deluded that is why you mostly try to refine and redefine the nonsense written inside the bible.

Madness.

Many Nigerians believe in this thrash.

Image123:
You have no idea, i don't blame you though. You need to repent.

You have no faith. If you do you won't be berating a person that is actually displaying his faith.

Image123:
An unbeliever is telling a believer that he doesn't believe, rubbish. Run along and find something useful to do with your time, like repentance.

Why don't you actually show some faith instead of berating a Christian that truly believes and is showing it .