₦airaland Forum

nicemuyoo:
I have given ou scriptural facts that proves he was not accumulating earthly riches and possessions while on earth as a matter of fact he was never bothered.he just lived on basic necessities of life. So you are too proud to admit scriptural truth.
When bible says he became poor so we might be rich it meant rich in the spirit not carnal worldly riches, now he became poor by taking on our sins. it seems you don't understand scriptural truth.
To many wrong teachings in the church . They just twist scriptures to sooth their own worldly desires. This makes my blood boil.
Jesus was not rich while on earth. He did not possess material riches or land, sheep, gold etc. He survived on basic necessities of life period!!!!

No one said Jesus accumulated earthly riches. If that was His desire, He would have accepted the crown when they wanted to make Him king.
You don't even read what I say properly, nor try to understand, you just try to impose your own ideologies here in an attempt to convince me, which you can't.
I know the depth of revelation I have at this level of mine. Only a revelation from God can make me think otherwise.

nicemuyoo:
I have given ou scriptural facts that proves he was not accumulating earthly riches and possessions while on earth as a matter of fact he was never bothered.he just lived on basic necessities of life. So you are too proud to admit scriptural truth.
When bible says he became poor so we might be rich it meant rich in the spirit not carnal worldly riches, now he became poor by taking on our sins. it seems you don't understand scriptural truth.
To many wrong teachings in the church . They just twist scriptures to sooth their own worldly desires. This makes my blood boil.
Jesus was not rich while on earth. He did not possess material riches or land, sheep, gold etc. He survived on basic necessities of life period!!!!

So are you saying God is okay with poverty and failure? And doesn't encourage success and prosperity?

OkCornel:
It's God's mercies and not your tithes that is making you what you are now.

What about non-tithers that are enjoying their lives or those that lived to a full ripe age? Did tithes have anything to do with their accomplished lives?

I thought the devourer should have finished off the prosperous non-tithers. Did JOB tithe? Did Cyrus of Persia tithe? Are all the billionaires we know today tithers?

I'm not arguing that it's not by God's grace. But then again, that grace is provoked by something I do.
Tithing is a covenant practice. And concerning covenants God has said: 'if you can break my covenant of day and night, that night becomes day and day becomes night, only then shall my covenant be broken.' See Jeremiah 33:20.
'God is no respecter of persons. whoever fears Him and does righteousness is accepted with Him.' See Acts 10:34
'The Lord maketh poor, and maketh rich: He bringeth low, and lifteth up.' See 1 Samuel 2:7
God is a God of principles. He is a God that honors His Word.
If I recall correctly Job was a good scartterer, 'And there is that scartereth, yet increaseth.' So maybe they (Job and the likes) weren't tithers, but surely they walked by other principles, that guaranteed their prosperity/wealth.

Mudi5:
so painful that u could not even get to know d truth till someone u regard to as a non-born again tell u, I tell u something, I would rather that you check d scriptures to see if his sayings are true or not, but I bet u barely read ur bible
n u can even call someone a non-born again when u av not even check to see if u are one, pls no offence meant n I apologize if any is taken, let's strife n contend with all effort to know and stand by d truth.

If you must have me spill it out for you.
Yes, I am a born again Christian (I can even give you a date if you like). And yes I am an addict of my Bible as well as a Bible student. So I don't just talk because I want to talk. I talk because I have something to offer.

nicemuyoo:
He fed 5000 people with two fish and 5 loaves of bread. The disciples said master that is all we have not even enough to feed twelve men. . He performed a miracle and the food was multiplied into thousands.
As I said he survived on basic necessities of life even though he can creat wealth, food etc out of nothing! He would not abuse that power to gratify the lust of the eye, flesh and pride of life which 99% of pastors are after.
When he was tempted by the devil- turn this stone into bread, he was hungry he did not do it because that is abuse of power!
Remember the story of the Samaritan woman , Jesus was sitting by the well waiting for the disciples who have gone in search of food to buy. He was thirsty and he asked the woman for a drink by the well.
He had to walk long distance on foot most times. Have you not heard what Isaiah prophesied about Jesus charater/ appearance?? Well I would throw a bit of light on it as I have never heard any pastor preach about it.

Isaiah 53- a vivid description of the appearance and life of Jesus a prophecy of Isaiah about him.

2He grew up before him like a tender shoot,

and like a root out of dry ground( poverty in terms of money, provision, )

He had no beauty or majesty to attract us to him,
nothing in his appearance that we should desire him.(He was not an handsome, Fresh looking man, he has grew up in hardship)

3He was despised and rejected by mankind,( the general rich, elite population despise him as an uneducated poor fellow)

a man of suffering, and familiar with pain.( someone that is not used to luxury life and convenience )

Like one from whom people hide their faces

he was despised, and we held him in low esteem.( not a celebrity like pastors of today)
This are scriptural prophecy from Isaiah and that was what happened to him in is life time.

Well church theologians (pastors) don't teach you that do They??

Well, believe what you want.
I know my God wasn't poor.
Yes 'He was made poor' (during 'His passion' leading to His death and resurrection) that we might be rich.
He came from poor backgrounds, but never remained in the backgrounds.
Believe me, He wasn't poor.
Now, don't misunderstand what I mean; He didn't actually concern himself with material things nor did he express a luxurious or lavishing lifestyle, that doesn't mean he was poor.

OkCornel:
Where does Faith come into play?

Are non-tithers cursed? Do tithers not also face life's challenges such as illness, financial crises e.t.c.

na wa o

Only an ignorant tither will be victim of such...
I for one can testify of God's goodness and faithfulness when it comes to honoring ones tithe.
I can testify that for the past 3yrs and counting I've not fallen sick, nor have I taken the first drug to sustain. It's been sound health all the way, and I give God all the glory.
Giving money or paying tithe doesn't automatically or magically bring money out of thin air. You still gotta apply wisdom, execute God-inspired ideas and obey God's leading at all times.
Believe it or not tithing puts you in a class different/distinct from every other average non-tithing Christian.

OkCornel:
Please explain how you tithe to God and Levites without inheritance, Widows, Orphans and Strangers in the Land are not involved...

If we tithe to God, why are the Pastors asking for it in monetary form which is a clear violation of God's instruction on tithing?

Tithe is 10% of any legitimate income/increase. And these days we earn monetarily, and so we tithe monetarily.

OkCornel:
Are you implying all successful and wealthy men (billionaire inclusive) were successful because they tithed?

This is the biggest joke of the century

Stop manufacturing assumptions.
I never implied that; I only questioned the certainty of your statement.

LaaJiblik:
Because you don’t have any credible point.

Nah! it's too stressful to type. Besides, I skipped parts of you long replies; too long and stressful to read.

LaaJiblik:
Which ones don’t you agree with?

Can really say now, sorry!

OkCornel:
1) Which part of the scripture did God state tithe can be more than 10%?
2) Are tithes given to "Levites without inheritance" or paid to them?

You don't tithe to you Pastor, you tithe to God.

OkCornel:
How can a tither be blessed more than someone who gives in line with Matthew 25 v 31-46?

Does Dangote, Zuckerberg and the likes tithe?

Are tithers not facing challenges in life just like non-tithers...

oh please

Oh... I was waiting when this would be said.
And how are you so sure 'Dangote, Zuckerberg and the likes' don't tithe?
What proof can you profer?

LaaJiblik:
Are tithes meant to be a precursor for Blessings?


Is there anywhere in the bible where it stated that tithers will be more blessed than Non-tithers?

Just saying ...
God never said he'd open the windows of heaven and pour out overflowing blessings on everybody, now did He?!

OkCornel:
Is there a scripture that supports this?

Tithing is a form of giving.
Don't mistake a form of giving for giving in itself

Generic giving and tithing are separate concepts.
Tithe is a sub-set (part), Giving is a set (the whole)

That's where most people get it wrong.
Tithing is not giving.
You don't give it, you pay it. Just like (for example) you don't give you tax, you pay your tax.

Sage7:
Evangelism is the heartbeat of God.

Money is the vehicle for evangelism.

I have scriptures to quote but I'd keep it to myself.

To the scriptural verses to be quoted by people above and below me, y'all should know that if you quote from Genesis to Revelation it won't change a thing. It is the Holy Spirit that can give a proper insight and meaning to the word. Some people scratch the surface, come online and pour English with sweet tongues.

The Holy Spirit is the entity that can give insight, a deeper understanding and a change in that belief system.

If you don't pay tithe, don't pay. If u pay, continue. Whatever rocks your boat! If all Nigerians stop paying tithe, the work of God will stand but if you free a sheep(le) it will definitely be ripped whilst dancing with Wolves.

As for me, I will continue to give alms to the needy and I'd continue to give my offerings and tithe!

You are the custodian of the money. Do with it as you see fit or as you are led.

OkCornel:
@ the bolded, has meat turned into money?

Your question should tell you that tithing is archaic and has passed on with the old Covenant.

Sacrificial giving as outlined in Matthew 25 v 31-46 has replaced tithing as an upgrade. And it's not limited to 10% of crops and livestock?

Rather it's way more than 10% of anything positive and tangible (or intangible too) that you can give. Cheers

10% is just the minimum when it comes to tithe. You can pay above if you want (as God has blessed you, and as you see fit or as you are led).

OkCornel:
Yeah... you gotta be willing like Balaam or Jonah...
Nice

well, I'll admit, God can make you willing...

OnyeOGA:
whenever i hear pastors saying,"anybody with you destiny will die." and i will ask who is with their church member destiny?
A lot of so-called men of God have forgotten the line of the Bible which says,"Love your enemies and pray for them."

I don't recall that ever been said after Jesus' resurrection.
Besides, why didn't Peter pray for Ananias and Saphira and asked God to forgive them or something? I mean, they weren't actually even enemies of God or the Church were they? They just embezzled some money, no big deal right? And also, I believe Peter was around when Jesus was making that statement you quoted above.

bloodofthelamb:
Most called themselves.

True!

nicemuyoo:
Jesus was a grassroot preacher, fact! Jesus was not a rich preacher when he was alive by human standard. His followers where now elites. He himself was from very poor background. Have you read your bible properly and let it interpret itself not the other way round. They could not even afford to pay for his birth rite ceremony. They have to opt for a poor man's ceremonial option( according to mosaic law). When they asked him to pay temple tax a small token where did he get the money from ? From the mouth of a fish. He only had what he needed not excess and luxury. I don't know Why preachers are making up stories about Jesus being rich during his life time, some even say the robe on him before crucifixion was a very expensive WHEN THIS ROPE WAS PUT ON HIM BY THE ROMANS TO MOCK HIM . When you check your scriptures you discover it was not his own originally so don't claim he was rich.
When he wanted a room for last supper did he pay for it.
The truth is Jesus came from a very poor location, very poor family, and had disciples that were not learned , ordinary poor everyday people.
Have you not heard the saying can anything good come out Nazareth! The lowest of the low!!
Continue to deceive yourselves and twist scriptures. The scriptures and historical facts remain unchanged.

hmm ... No argument he came from the poor and low, but he never remained poor or low now did he?
Poor people don't offer to buy food for 5000 people. And like I said before I find it very hard to believe that 12 sensible men left their day jobs to follow a poor man who'd have nothing to offer.

OkCornel:
Exactly.

Those that have been screaming and defending tithes up and down don't even know the scriptural meaning of tithing.

1) Tithing is a form of giving which God mandated the Israelites alone to do BUT

2) Sacrificial giving out of a loving and cheerful heart in line with the direction of the Holy Spirit is the best way to give...and it applies to all
human races under heaven either in the past, present or future.

If I look at these options...I'd go for the second one without thinking twice.

Do what you want with your money. But just don't get upset or criticizing when a tither is getting more finacially blessed than you.

LaaJiblik:
Part 3:
WHAT IS HUNDRED PERCENT?
We achieve hundred percent giving when we have grown in our acknowledgement and submission to the lordship of Christ; when the Lord can demand anything from us. This is when we fully become stewards of God. At this point we stop seeing anything as ours but His. That you give does not make you a steward. As long as you still lay claim to things and/or resources given to you by God as your own, you are yet to step into stewardship. Stewardship is the highest level of kingdom resource management. Giving ten percent does not make us stewards; giving our Isaac does! God dared ask Abraham for Isaac because He knew Abraham had the capacity to give up Isaac.
THE EARLY CHURCH DID NOT GIVE TITHE?
I laugh each time I hear this. Now let’s consider this together:
Now the multitude of those who believed were of one heart and one soul; NEITHER DID ANYONE SAY THAT ANY OF THE THINGS HE POSSESSED WAS HIS OWN, but they had all things in common. And with great power the apostles gave witness to the resurrection of the Lord Jesus. And great grace was upon them all. Nor was there anyone among them who lacked; FOR ALL WHO WERE POSSESSORS OF LANDS OR HOUSES SOLD THEM, AND BROUGHT THE PROCEEDS OF THE THINGS THAT WERE SOLD, AND LAID THEM AT THE APOSTLES' FEET; AND THEY DISTRIBUTED TO EACH AS ANYONE HAD NEED. (Acts 4:32-35, NKJV, emphasis added)
I hope the highlighted portions of the passage above are clear enough? One word comes to mind after reading this: STEWARDSHIP! The church was young at the time, but their understanding of Christ’s lordship was very mature. They had stepped into stewardship so there was no need for tithe because they gave more than ten percent! Some of them gave hundred percent.
THE DISTRIBUTION OF RESSOURCES AT THE APOSTLES’ FEET
All donations were submitted at the apostles’ feet not because the apostles were the intermediaries between God and the believers but because of the authority structure instituted by God Himself in the church. In the New Testament, we all have equal access to God. God has set up leadership within the church for order. So the leaders are saddled with the responsibility of administering the resources so that believers don’t starve both spiritually and materially. This is not socialism, this is stewardship!
The problem we have today is that the resources dropped at the apostles’ feet are not being faithfully distributed by stewards but are being malignantly handled by hirelings and wolves. This is the bone of contention in many quarters today where those saddled with the responsibility of distributing the resources are helping themselves massively to them without compunction. Such people have one lord: their belly! Hence, the uproar by some aggrieved people who declare bitterly that resources should not be dropped at the apostles’ feet altogether. As painful as this is, only God can judge his own and clean his church. Abuse is no excuse for apathy. That there are ministers out there who are out to use God’s riches for personal aggrandizement does not mean we should not be committed to His stewardship. After all, as believers, we study the Bible not the imperfections or crookedness of people!

IS A BELIEVER UNDER ANY CURSE FOR NOT TITHING?
Tithe under the law was an obligation and as we have established already, its origin is not the law but the foretaste of grace under which Abraham lived. Tithe was not an obligation; it was an expression of the acknowledgement and acceptance of the lordship of God. Anyone in |Christ cannot be under the curse of the law. So, no, not tithing does not attract any curse from God. But again, you cannot really say you love God and not cheerfully give everything you are and have to Him.
IS PROSPERITY TIED TO TITHING?
The answer is a thunderous NO! We prosper because first we are blessed of God (spiritual prosperity) and second, when we engage in the production of value for which we get paid (material prosperity). God does not give manna any more; He gives the power to get wealth for the execution of His will and establishment of His kingdom on earth. The power to get wealth is best exercised through enterprise.
You do not give to prosper; you give because you love God and acknowledge His lordship! More than 99% of the people on the world’s list of billionaires do not pay tithe but they give heavily. Some of them even pledge 99% of their wealth to charities. Again, do not be deceived, you do not give your way to material riches. You acquire material riches by using your God-given power to get wealth through productive, value-adding enterprise. God’s blessing does not function in a vacuum. Jesus did not feed the five thousand by calling forth bread and fish from thin air; He used existing five loaves of bread and two fish to do the miracle. He blessed, and broke the little that was available, and it multiplied. Thus, the available became the magnificent (Matthew 14:13-21). [I have discussed this in great detail in my book GO INTO ALL THE WORLD]
However, giving itself attracts the blessing of expanded opportunities. You cannot give and not be multiplied by God to give more (Luke 6:38)!
FINAL THOUGHTS
It’s been roughly two thousand years since the church began. The challenges, demands and expressions of the work of the ministry have changed dramatically as have culture and human civilisation. So the way and manner in which resources are pooled and used today have equally changed. But the call for faithful stewardship has not changed.
Giving must therefore be done cheerfully out of a revelation of Christ’s lordship. You do not give primarily to be blessed; you’re already blessed so you give. This way you open yourself up for higher opportunities. Each time you give with this understanding, you are like Abraham lifting your hands in surrender and worship to the possessor of heaven and earth. Giving of course is not limited to money as there are so many things money cannot get done.
If the Lord can entrust you with the spoils of battle He can as well trust you with an Isaac. Every believer has an Isaac who the Lord will definitely demand for at some point in their walk with Him. Not because He needs Isaac but because He wants to establish His lordship in unmistakable terms in the believer’s life.
Our response to the perversion currently going on in the body of Christ however should not be visceral lest the devil take advantage of it and plunder the church further. Rather we should remain committed to God in prayer and remain in the comfort and admonition of Scriptures for Him to come through. The same God who showed great mercy killed Ananias and Sapphira for tampering with the resources of His church. Let’s not allow the greed of Judas discredit the work of the faithful eleven. The Lord help us all to step into His stewardship as we acknowledge and submit to His lordship daily.
Remain blessed.
Jesus is Lord forever!
Your brother,
Arome Osayi.

I agree with some of what you said, and I disagree with some others.
Good write-up tho...

OkCornel:
As per the bolded, you are the one adding to God's word.

Despite the prosperous era of Israel in the era of Solomon where gold was common and silver was very very easy to get. The items to be tithed never changed from Crops and Livestocks to gold and silver. Even after Solomon's era...Malachi emphasized tithe was foodstuffs, Jesus also stated it to be produce from crops in Matthew 23v23

My question to you is that God who clearly gave the instructions on what to be tithed never changed it, why does man want to counter God's instruction to change tithes from crops and livestocks into money?

If you want to tithe according God's instruction, please do it as He said it should be done.

Do not add to God's words. Thank you.

The last time I check Malachi I never saw where it was specified for tithes to be in crops and livestock.
If I recall correctly, it simply says 'bring ye all the tithes into my storehouse that there may be meat in my house...'
No one specified anything about crops and livestock.
And once again I ask, how do we tithe crops and livestocks in this mordern era?

OkCornel:
If it is by physical evidence, I do not totally agree because you might be concluding that Jesus, Paul, Peter and the other Apostles were not prosperous.

Same goes for ancient prophets like Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel e.t.c.

Yes, you can say that.

OkCornel:
I did not ask for your intepretation or Paul's intepretation.

I asked for where Jesus opened His mouth to condemn animal sacrifice. And if He did not, why are you not doing it?

Your answer will also be the answer to the tithe arguments going on.

Read properly, I already answered that.

SweetJoystick:
Smh the donkey which God used was human or born again abi? God can use anyone or anything, besides na you make am born against? Or did he tell you Jesus isn't his lord and saviour? Numbers 22:21-39

If I'm correct I don't recall God giving free-will to donkeys or any animal for that matter. Just humans!
So, God can use anything, but when it comes to humans, you gotta be willing.

akeensbussy:
if your pastor truly says this, your pastor is a fraudulent human being..

He is a psychopath...

Nope, he's making it clear that you money doesn't make him rich. God gave us all power to create wealth. What you do with what God has given you will guarantee what you get outta life.

OkCornel:
Even the idea of animal sacrifice did not come with the Law...if Jesus never opened his mouth to condemn animal sacrifice...why are we not doing it today?

The answer to this question should answer your question on the relevance of tithing crops and livestock (and not money which is rather unscriptural) in today's realities.

Jesus never condemned animal sacrifice, he abolished it when he died and resurrected. There was no more need to spill animal blood given that Jesus' blood had been spilled for all.
And again, you can't tithe crops and livestock in this mordern era, you tithe in money instead.

OkCornel:
In terms of gold and silver, absolutely none of them I can remember of.

True wealth is not measured by temporary gold and silver that is subject to decay.

True wealth comes from dependence on Jehovah Jireh...and your God given talents utilized in line with the will of THE ALMIGHTY

Prosperity is not just a function of how much you have physically, yes, but how much you have physically is evidence of your prosperity.

OkCornel:
That explains why Jesus has fulfilled the Law (Old Covenant) and replaced it with the Grace and Unconditional LOVE (New Covenant).

Under the new covenant, the basis for separating the goats from sheeps is sacrificial giving as per Matthew 25 v 31-46.

Tithing is obsolete in line with current realities...but sacrificial giving can never be irrelevant and would always stand the test of time either in the past, present and future.


Your question should also make you think further that the following people in Israel never paid tithes;
1) Levites
2) Widows
3) Orphans
4) Fishermen, Carpenters e.t.c. (whose source of income was not from the Farm or Livestocks)

In addition, also ask yourself why the standard for tithing never changed from foodstuffs to gold and silver or money before and after the glorious era of Solomon.

Cheers.

The idea of tithing is not of the law... Remember, Abraham and Isaac tithed and the law came from Moses.

OkCornel:
Who did God give instructions to tithe? the Israelites or the whole world?

Did the gentile Christians in the time of the Apostles pay tithes to prosper on earth?

How many of the apostles were recorded in the new testament to be as wealthy as Isaac?

OkCornel:
Jesus was the richest man who ever lived...not because of the silver and gold he might have had in the custody of Judas.

If Jesus could multiply food, and tell a fisherman in Peter where to cast his net and harvest a net breaking catch of fishes.
If Jesus could get coin from the mouth of a fish to pay tax
If Jesus could turn water into wine

What the heck does he really need to carry a sack of gold and silver for?

Complete dependence on Jehovah Jireh for divine provisions and wisdom to do the right thing is what makes a man rich. Not necessarily your bank account balance

Cheers

agreed