₦airaland Forum

hopefulLandlord:
And I'm telling you its nonsense you're talking, you're projecting how you would think as an atheist to other atheist when you've never been an atheist before. its like the popular saying "giving up smoking is easy. look at me, I've never smoked in my life"

I'm an atheist, I've been in life threatening situations with desire to live but never prayed to anyone. I've faced sicknesses that looked like its the end of me but never prayed or encouraged others to pray for me.

Maybe you should check out a thread I made on this topic here https://www.nairaland.com/3363695/there-no-atheists-foxholes-how

And how do you know I wasn't an atheist? I didn't tell you that now did I?
Look, I wasn't drawn to the Christian faith because I was helpless, weak or anything of that sort. I was drawn to it when I saw that it offered the best of everything man needed. And I mean everything.
The fact that you faced sickness and yet didn't seek God is ur problem. Me, after I became born again have never even tasted the slightest of sickness, and can boldly tell you that it's impossible for me to be sick, even if the devil himself came to me and tried to make me sick.
So, it's ur choice bro...

realmindz:
So it takes evil or unfortunate events to know god.

It's a psychological thing for the human mind to seek refuge in times of helplessness. Present people a mere stone as salvation and it will do the trick.
People always desire a thing to believe in, something to give them hope

I never implied that it takes unfortunate events to know God.
I only meant that there are certain persons that will never believe until they're caught up in one critical circumstance or the other.

sonmvayina:
Whatever happens, whether good or evil, it is God who is responsible... There is only one God... Not 2, there is no separate God for good, and evil...

It is just the duality of life.. Two different sides of the same thing...

God is never responsible for anything evil.
Remember John 10:10, 'The thief cometh not, but for to steal, kill, and to destroy.' and 1 John 3:8b, 'for this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.'
Satan is responsible for every evil.

hopefulLandlord:
Nonsense, Christopher Hitchens died of terminal illness and kept blaspheming until his death

Well, he died refusing to believe. That's his problem.
Pls understand my statement before rushing to comment.
Even an atheist (desiring to live) would ask to be prayed for when he's at the point of death-hoping for a miracle. Believe me, I've seen/heard things.

People will always deny or doubt miracles until they are dire in need of one.
Even a doctor will have no choice but to believe when he's faced with a terminal illness.

well, Banky W did say 'there ain't no party lika a lagos party'

maisauki:
says someone that eats cow all his life

The saddest thing about this comment of yours is that you were the sperm that actually came forth, and you're Nigerian. :/

These are very dangerous times we live in. Hence, to say you don't need failure-proof protection is a hocus-pocus claim.
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Yes! There is a kind of protection that never fails. Read about it in this article: http://bbsermons.com.ng/the-reality-of-divine-protection-pt-2/

enilove:
This is not about soul winning.
When you change the words of God like this , it has it dangerous consequences .
Many pastors are now materialistic because they don't remember this very word of God or they remember but changed it to soothe themselves.

Winning souls is the most important and it includes your soul as well. You cannot be focused on the things of God or be heavenly minded when all you run after is material wealth .

What are you even saying?
I can't tell if you are agreeing with me or disagreeing.
God doesn't regard gold, silver or money as treasure.
What God treasures in souls.
Did you even read the article properly?

enilove:
Jesus was trying to tell us to heavenly minded and not be materialistic.
When you give to the church and the poor, food ,clothes ,shelter for the homeless etc , you are laying up treasures for yourself in heaven.

You don't need materialistic treasures in heaven? What are you gonna do with it there?
And why do you need to accumulate it, when heaven's already got abundance of them.
Giving to the poor and the church doesn't store up treasures for you in heaven. It only releases blessings upon your life here on earth.

enilove:
How can you lay up for yourselves treasures of souls of men ?
Are other peoples souls for your safe keeping, when you are not a slave trader?

You are not the one keeping them, God is.
You are laying them up not for yourself, but for God, but to your account.

agwom:
Hmmm

thoughts?

In Matthew 6:19-21, Jesus said something about amassing treasures in heaven for ourselves instead of amassing treasures on earth.
And many have misinterpreted His statement, thinking He was actually talking about materialistic treasures in terms of money, gold, silver, and the likes.
But here's an article that'll expose you to the truth about what Jesus was actually talking about: http://bbsermons.com.ng/treasures-in-heaven/

'As many as received Him, to them gave he power to become sons of God, even to them that believe on His name.' - John 1:12
Every believer has the auction to provoke miracles. But sheer ignorance has cause many to be running around seeking miracle-working pastors, prophets, etc.
Stop running around looking for miracle workers.
--------------
So here is an article that'll teach you how you can provoke miracles yourself.
Link: www.bbsermons.com.ng/miracle-made-easy-part-2/

LaaJiblik:
If you are this lazy to read, it means you don’t have anything to offer

... Wareva you say man

OkCornel:
Really? I should learn and improve on the false doctrine of monetary tithing?

I'm asking questions to know which doctrine is false or true. That's my intention.

Traditions and Truth must align to each other perfectly. Any contradiction in the Tradition is a lie or error.

That is what I'm pointing out.

IF GOD HAS INSTRUCTED US TO PAY TITHES IN MONETARY FORM, PLEASE SHOW ME. If there is no such instructions from God, please don't add to what He has said and make it a rule for others to follow.

Cheers.

Tradition and truth cannot align.

OkCornel:
I'm not arguing scriptures...I'm asking you questions based on what is in the scriptures.

you ask questions to disprove, and not to learn or improve.

OkCornel:
Now ask yourself if everyone in Israel were eligible to pay tithes...

were fishermen paying tithes? I'm just showing you how obsolete tithing is in this current dispensation.

God who gave the instructions on how to tithe was fully aware that Gold and Silver existed at that point in time.

Please do not add to God's word.

I'm not one to argue scriptures.
I simply tell you or clearify on an issue and if you agree or not, that's your business.

It's a knowledge issue.
You confess Jesus, but you don't go ahead to learn about Jesus.
That why they say 'be ye transformed by the renewal of your mind'.
At new birth, when you believe in your heart and confess Jesus with your mouth, only your spirit is transformed, your soul and body however are not. And that's where your own responsibility lies.
You consciously undergo a mental renewal which will spark a mental and physical transformation.
I'll recommend attending a three weeks course at the Word Of Life Bible Institute (WOLBI) if you would. Visit www.smhos.org to find out more about the institute.

OkCornel:
Please open the Bible and tell me where God said we should pay tithe in monetary form. If God didn't say we should do it that way...be lest assured you are disobeying God paying your tithes in that form.

You keep quoting Matthew 23 v 23 in defence of tithing. I'll ask you these questions;

1) Was animal sacrifice, keeping the sabbath day holy, tithing e.t.c. not part of the Law Jesus was referring the Pharisees to?

2) Jesus was addressing the Pharisees in Matthew 23 v 23...are you Christian or a Pharisee (that wants to keep the Law?)

“What sorrow awaits you teachers of religious law and you Pharisees. Hypocrites! For you are careful to tithe even the tiniest income from your herb gardens, but you ignore the more important aspects of the law—justice, mercy, and faith. You should tithe, yes, but do not neglect the more important things." - Matthew 23:23 NLT.
Yes, tithing isn't the most important thing in the Bible, but that doesn't make it unimportant either.
And again, you can't tithe in livestock and crops in this mordern era, because you don't receive income or increase in the form of crops and livestocks. Your boss in your office surely doesn't give you a goat or cow as monthly wage, now does he/she?

OkCornel:
The eternal treasure Jesus spoke of...and the temporary treasures (gold and silver) of this world are both important. But Eternal treasures are far more important than temporary treasures.

If you seek Eternal Treasures (Kingdom of God), temporary treasures will follow you. Whether you decide to accumulate these temporary treasures in your bank account with private jets to show for it OR you decide to give it in line with Matthew 25 v 31-46...is a matter of choice.

Let the Holy Spirit lead you on what to do.

Life is not about accumulation, but about dispersion.
When you hear prosperity or wealth, don't just conclude to say it's all about accumulation. Remember my definition of prosperity. It's about being blessed enough to be a blessing.
I've told you about heavenly/eternal treasures and will not dwell on that again.

OkCornel:
You have absolutely no idea of what I pray for.

My only prayer point right now is the revelation of God's TRUTH.
Money is too trivial an issue for me to bother with ...whether it's in my bank account or not.

The God I serve is not limited to money and He meets my needs consistently somehow...so money is the least of my worries...

Good for you bro ...

OkCornel:
Many of the prayer points in church that is money related should tell you how people have prioritized temporary pleasures above eternal treasures.

I wonder if God or mammon is what people serve in the church today. Praying to God about monetary issues at the expense of more critical priorities shows you how the church has missed it!

DO NOT PLACE THE CART BEFORE THE HORSE. Money is important, but there are more important things than money e.g. your God given talent.

I never said 'money related prayers'. I only implied that if they had money they'd not pray certain prayer points. Even you, check some of your prayer points, do you think if you had money, you'd pray about them?

OkCornel:
[color=#990000]
2) Store up your treasures in Heaven where no moths or thieves would attack it.

when Jesus said: 'store up treasures in heaven, have you ever asked what He meant by that and how do you do that?
Lemi tell you...
What does God regard as treasure?
the souls of men. Because you don't need any form of silver or gold kind of treasure in heaven, because I don't think we'll be doing business there.
So when God says store up treasures in heaven, he's talking about souls of men. Win souls to your account, thats what He's talking about. Souls that'll speak for you in heaven.
Have you not read, 'the kingdom of God is like unto treasure hid in a field; the which when a man hath found he hideth and for joy thereof goeth and selleth all that he hath, and buyeth the field.' - Matthew 13:44
Talking about how God gave his only begotten child to beget many children.

OkCornel:
I agree with this...that is why I am telling you that if you seek the Kingdom of God first, everything will follow.

What shall it profit a man to gain the whole world and lose his soul?

And tithing isn't putting His Kingdom first eh? Infact, you can't tell me that you put God's kingdom first if you find it difficult to tithe.
Being prosperous doesn't make you lose your soul, it'll even help you preserve your soul so as to not sin against God. Because many sins we commit is as a result of porverty.

OkCornel:
And animal sacrifice is also not of the Law, Jesus never preached against it...why are you not doing it?

What is God's definition of tithe?

If you give your tithe without love in your heart and thinking God is a piggybank for sale...bros that is the wrong motive I'm talking of.

Anything done religiously without love is a waste of time and money.

whatever you say bro ...

OkCornel:
He was made poor so that we might be rich in what exactly? Earthly treasures that are subject to decay and theivery as Jesus preached.

He was made poor so you can have access to eternal riches laid up for you in the Eternal Heavens...
Bear in mind that the Apostles were not multimillionaire Pastorpreneurs, but they were rich not because of earthly treasures...but by eternal treasures.

By the way...as for earthly treasures, if you utilize your God given talent in line with His perfect will, everything would fall in place.

Do not disregard the source (raw material and main product) for a by-product. Seek ye first the Kingdom of God and His righteousness...everything other thing shall be added unto you.

If you seek Eternal Treasures, earthly treasures will come into the picture as a by-product in the process.

Jesus' major reason for being poor for you to be rich is not for earthly treasures as Pastropreneurs are always preaching... It's for Eternal treasures.

This is the faulty mentality you people usually have... You think everything is for heaven, heaven and heaven. You forget the you have a life to live and reign here on earth as well. Or you want to disappoint God here on earth like Lazarus the begger, only to make heaven and live inside someone else' mansion, instead of having your own. As Jesus said, 'in my Fathers house there are many mansions'.
I mean, you people forget that we've been given the mandate to occuply till Jesus comes, and you don't occupy anything in poverty.
He said 'go into all the world', and He empowered us with power and authority to dominate.
Today, the worlds are ruled by satan and his forces. The media world for example, who do you think controls all the stuff you see on tv? The homosexuality-promoting movies and the news of wars, terrorism and the likes you hear everyday; satan controls these things.
This is why the Church needs wealth, because the devil has made the worlds very expensive to control and that's why in order to get something on air it costs alot of money. That's why it is said 'money answereth all things.' Many of our prayer points in the Church are money issues; sometimes you just need money, and not a host of Angels to solve certain problems.
There's still more thoughts roaming my mind to come out, but I'll end this reply here.

paxonel:
That is to let you know that Money answereth all things. Don't pretend, you like money too. That's why you are commenting on this issue too.
Infact, you are the first i have seen who lay emphasis on money relating to it.

May be you are also a beneficiary to tithe collection in your church, who knows

Abeg o! :v
I'm not a tithe collector, nor a pastor o!
Anyways, everybody likes money; tho I refused to serve it and allow it rule me, like many have and are now campaigning against money related matters in the Church, to encourage their stingyness and unfaithfulness.

OkCornel:
What is your definition of success and prosperity? Let us examine in light of God's words...

Success is the realization of set goals - Proverbs 4:18 ...
Prosperity is having enough resources or necessities to meet your needs and the genuine needs of others - Genesis 26:12-14

OkCornel:
God is a God of Principles ....no doubt.

1) Tithe is not obligatory as the Law is now replaced by the new covenant of grace and unconditional love...and the new covenant emphasizes on sacrificial giving from a loving and cheerful heart...this would be the basis for separating the sheeps from the goats in Matthew 25 v 31-46 (the words of Jesus Himself).

2) If you want to tithe, please tithe as God instructed and do not add to His words to justify your actions.

3) Yes, giving can attract God's blessings...but bear in mind that God is not for sale to the highest bidder. Giving with the motive of "getting something bigger" in return from God is not LOVE, rather it's a selfish mindset. Give out of love for God and man.

4) 10% of your monetary income you give to your church is not tithe and it is not obligatory. Do not let anyone deceive or arm twist you. You are giving to God's work and He'll bless you for it anyways (especially if done with the right motive and not a selfish one). You are blessed for giving...and not monetary "tithing"

Again, tithing is not of the law.
Tithing is not giving, but returning (what's not yours in the first place). So there's no wrong or right motive when it comes to tithing; you just obey.

paxonel:
Daddy freeze has criticized tithing which is one error in churches among others, you should be happy that atleast one problem is being tackled.
Let another person identify another error and criticize it.

Abegi, make I hear...
If it's not money related, no one will want to campaign about it like they are doing concerning this matter.

nicemuyoo:
That is why God does not intend to make every believer a millionaire never,

Am sorry but my conversation with you is over.
I can't talk with someone who still thinks at this level.