@kunleOshob

[b]there is only one place in the bible were Israelites where conditionally asked to convert their tithes to money, [/b]even at that they were asked to use the money to buy whatever food or drink they liked and consume it themselves with their families. They were NOT asked to hand the money over to the priests.

So Jesus said IT IS FINISHED only in one place, does that make it invalid?
Or am i discussin withbunch of juves here? C'mon guys. Im sure y'all smater than this.
So anythin that appears ones is not valid? Good one . . way to go.

oNe

KunleOshob:

@DBR
if you are truelly a christian and you hold christ's teachings as sascrosant then you would realize that according to the teachings of christ giving to the poor and needy = giving to God. He never taught giving to the church is giving to God contrary to what your pastor would like you to believe. Whilst it is not wrong to give to the church, a true follwer of christ would know it is more important as a christian to give to those in need than to give to a church. Jesus teachings and priorities when it comes to giving were very clear and even the apostles upheld this teaching. it is worthy of note that 90% of the teachings on giving in the new testtament [including the ones twisted by churches to justify giving to them] were directed at giving to the poor and the needy and NOT giving to any church. Even church collections by the apostles was mostly used to take care of the needy so don't let any man deceive you. Christian giving is about charity and not about running elaborate man made organization called churches.

I feel ur pain, seriously, i do.
But dont do wat u r accusing pastors of, twisting the bible.
Melchizedek wasnt poor and didnt need the tithe when abraham paid.
He was a King, Abraham was just an old man.
U think there were no poor pple around abraham??

The bottom line is this, aything u do to OTHERS u doin it to God.
It's not only when u give to the poor that =giving to God.
Anything u do to, say to a pastor = doin and sayin to God. Bet u didnt think of that too.
But i see u have a problem with the church being prosper.
Mayb it's some1 like u in that church, they come wit poshe cars, park outside
while the church is in shambles. . wat ashame.
Y'all talkin like u really care bout the poor, while u dont, just creating a facade
of charity just to make a point.

We talkin bout just 10% not e'rthin' Y'all cryin like babies that their entire savings
is sized from. If u pay tithe u cant help poor again?
Or if we build nice structures the poor cant be helped? c'mon . .

oNe

@KunleOsho

You still don't get it, nobody is saying it is wrong to give any percentage of your income to the church to support it's activities. What we have consisitently said is wrong, fraudulent and evil is to twist the word of God to justify mandatory tithing which is not required of christians. Your appeal to abrahamic tithe does not hold water cos this was a one off transaction on a special occassion, Abraham was never recorded to tihe regularly from his income like those scammers would have us believe. That aside the true church of christ was never intended to be the kind of large organized structures we have today running large overheads with the pastor CEO earning a seven figure salary. The structure of the biblical church was simple and overheads limited, infact offerings was mostly used to take care of the poor and the needy amongst them contrary to the practise today that it is mostly used to "run" the church and ensure a luxurious lifestyle for the CEO. It is quite shamefull that most churches have ignored the primary reason for collections in the early church which was for charity and they now use most of the funds to build edificies [which don't glorify God in anyway] to the glory of themsleves and the ego of their pastor whilst ignoring the saints jesus clearly mandatged us to take care of. Jesus even went to the extent of making it a requirement for salvation in matthew 25:31-40 yet these greedy pastors would rather lead the flock astray and send them to damnation becos of their love for filthy lucre. I can asure you that when jesus comes he would deny at least 95% of the churches that claim to preach in his name becos they are not doing his will or the will of the father who they claim to worship. A word is enough for the wise, wake up and follow christ instead of following your pastor or manmade church doctrines at the detriment of your salvation. The bible says "people perish for lack of knowledge" i hope this will not be your case in Jesus name.

Funny character. . .u Just lumpin all ur grudges together. Obviously u have problem with preachers been successful.
So in ur understanding, the pry job of the church is to care for the poor. . .lol.
The passage u quoted just talkin bout U doing good works as a christian.
Look at it carefully, it says first He will seperate the SHEEP from the GOAT.
Christians are already called the SHEEP of His pasture . .do the maths, lets not digress.
The point is that's not wat will save u, cos if that's it He came to die in vain. Get it?

The bible is clear on how to prosper, funny enuff it's tied to ur giving.{In various forms}and other stuff.
Yea, the church may help the poor, jesus fed the poor, but that's not their major role.
The poor even gave to support the ministry, U r collecting big salary and u weepin over sm1 askin u to pat tithe?
The widow that paid e'rthin she had into the offerin'. . Jesus shudda said, this pple are wicked o, they are rich and they still collecting the
widows mite instead of them to give her. Instead Jesus praised her. Cos He knew she aint givi to the synagogue but to God.
I can imagine wat u wuldda said. U pple's problem is that u always see it as givin to a man, a pastor rather than to God.

So if i believe in tithin and havin good edificeses worship centres [i]"i lack knowledge and may perish and it's detrimenteal to my salvation" [/i]that is the most scriptural ignorant thing i've heard in a while.
U make it sound like a general thing, do u go to church? Has ur pastor twisted ur hand to collect ur money??
Has he defrauded u? If u dont wanna tithe dont tithe , wat's d fuss?

oNe

tommy T,
Sorry, to disappoint u.
Im not a Pastor. .im a christian. .{was almost gon say just like u but. . .}
Evidentlyu'v just been skimmin tru ma posts.
I attend a church, and all ur frustrations of twisting the bible to get tithe didnt happen.
I'v said ova n ova that ma P says not payin tithe wont stop u from goin to heaven or
try to scare u or wit anythin espeially where money is concerned.

oNe

KunleOshob:

The above highlighted is a lie, nowhere in the bible is tithes attached to earnings. tithes was strictly from the produce of the land and the animals they breeded. Monetary tithes/ tithes attached to earnings was not introduced to the church till the 19th century when some smart alecs saw it as a means of raisng extra cash for their churches. the church then might have meant well in raisng extra money for the spread of the gosple as they mostly used the money for good works then, but it is still not justification for twisting the word of God. on the contrary pastors today especially in the pentecostal movement hadly any good works is done with the money collected, a large percentage of it is used for things other than would glorify the name of God.

LOL. . .
So when they said to convert the produce or waeva it is to money was not in the bible . . wat a joke.
It's amazin how pple just chose to be ignorant to make a point.
Wateva ur occupation was, u pay a tithe of it, if the majority vocation was farmin of course they'l refer to produce
and live stock, comon sense.
Abraham gave tithe of Gold, and precious things to. . wat r u talkn bout?

The problem is, u do not see urself thankin God with ur tithe, u r lookin at a pastor,
wt he does wit it. Honestly it aint ur business. Ur 'contract" is with God.
Do ur part and stop bickering bout wat the pastor does wit it.
He'l answer to God not U.

oNe

TommyT

What about the widow, the fatherless and the stranger no body care for them
all the pastors care about is bring the money to church and even when they
remember this set of people they will raise special offering for them, so what happen to tithe then.

I kinda skipped this initially, there lots comin ma way.
Yea the widow and the motherless. . wat bout them.
I know pple in that category that my P pays there rent, children skool fees and all.
There are churches that ma P gives money to to complete their building project.
Where im comin from these things are taken care of.
Plus support to missions.
So y the generalisation?

Some of the disciple were sayin same thing like u : y is this woman wasting this xpensive[her life savin]
on the master, we culd sell and take care of the poor. . .
as if they care bout the poor more than Jesus. All these holier than thou attitude just to discredit tithin wont take u no where.

oNe

Zikkyy:

I don’t understand you sir, first you agree tithe is not mandatory, and then you make statements like the one above. Are you saying I am not a Christian if I don’t pay my tithe? Your post above suggests you support mandatory tithing. Please clarify sir?

Gosh!!!!. . .now i think im gettin wat d dudes being sayin 'bout goin in circles.
Wat satisfaction do u get from takin text out of context??
Shud i write in your mother tongue to help your comprehension?
Cos i feel u kno exactly wat im sayin but u just need to. . .
Anyways, i'ma go again. .

The major issue is this, some guys say tithin is nit for NTS.
I say yes it is. Cos Tithing started b4 the LAW,
the reason for tithing still exists in two ways:
1-personal, acknowledgin that God is the possesor, the one who blesses u, and prospers u.
2-as a support system for the pastor, the church bills and xpenses et al.
So as long as there is church, pastor and u agree that God is the blesser, u have the
"authorization" or platform to tithe.

Is it Mandatory?
I say NO, nothin is MANDATORY in the new testament, but there are things that are expedient.

People taggin it as fraudulent, scam, fleece, criminal is what i'm amazed at.
Jesus didnt tell pple not to pay tithe, he didnt enforce it either, he didnt enforce anythin, really.
He didnt say it's a LAW for u to give your life, to accept Him or anythin.

Some say ITS PERSONAL, so Pastors shudnt talk about it, and i say e'rthin is personal.
Faith is personal, yet they talk bout it e'rtime, o one is complainin'.
Prayer is personal, they talk bout it, no one is frownin, even tho it can be so tiresome to pray
and u dontt feel like it.

So dear, if u r born again u are goin to heaven cos u a christian,
not payin your tithe wont stop u, as ma P will say.

OK zikky, i was answering u , until i saw your 2nd post and it's apparent u out for balderdashh.

Why don’t you come up with one? Raise a topic on what churches are not doing right, am sure you get the required contributions.

Is anythin stoppin u? iF of all i said these are the things u quotin, i dont kno wat to make of your intention, definately not to discuss and see reasons.

You are definitely hungry. If found guity of robbery, the jail term will not be calculated based on the value of the amount stolen.

Errmm. . u kinda right, im hungry. It's past ma breaktime and here i am talkin wit sm1 who aint reasonin wit d point.
Wats the bullock u typed above? cant make any sense of it and wat it's gotta do with the discussion.

I understand. Anti-corruption talks always sound like nonsense to the average politician in Nigeria, really

Still don t know the relevance, u sure u on the right thread.?
Check well, maybe u missed the Nigeria at 50 button.


oNe

Pastor AIO:

Because it is the main means via which many criminal organisations fleece poor and gullible people.  It is concern for this scam that is making so many christians speak out against the tithing malarkey. 

Yea yea, i've asked is any1 pointin a gun to your groin sayin your Tithe or your life??
Callin your church a criminal organisation becos of Tithe really shows the kinda christian u urself are
. . and that's just assumin u r one. And it means u are also a member of the criminal organisation.
And if we calculate your own tithe i guess it's less than wat can be refered to as FLEECE.
And believe me, i aint an easy person to persuade or convince, so im far from being gullible.
The fact that u cannot exercise the level of faith to do it is no person's problem but urs.
pple doin it are following a good example that is biblical,and beneficiary to them.

Plus, Im waiting when threads will be opened about what the churches are doin right, but of
course none of y'all is interested in such as it wont give u the opportunity to engage in
malarkey as u call it. Cos y'all r d ones talkin nonesense, really.

Term it wateva u want, as long as Abraham ,Jesus, the apostles and the bible didnt call it so, ma bruv
knock urself out with waeva label u wanna put on it.

oNe

Zikkyy:

Correction: New Testament believers are not mandated to tithe. The decision to tithe is personal.

Y'all make laff, seriously.
Dunno if u'v been readin me or not.
New testament saint aint even MANDATED to do anythin'. .if
u wanna look at mandate as LAW.
There are many things we are not mandated to do, but we do
and advised to do cos they have benefits.
U are NOT under the law as NTS, yet we know it's expedient to keep it
and so we do, dont we? I ask again why this particular interest in Tithe

The decision to be a Christian is personal, still u are admonished to be one
because there's benefit.
It's pesonal to be act as a christian but shud u be "Christianly" only when u want to?.
So dont come here sayin all that tithe is a personal thing,
Ur faith, ur walk, prayer life . . .e'rthing is personal, yet we get preached to
everyday to daily. . hourly live in a particular way.
Y havnt u complained bout those??
oNe

Pastor AIO:

What if I want to make burnt offering in gratitude to God (not for salvation).  Is that okay?

Hehehe. . .Dude , go ahead.
If after u have the understandin' that He's no longer interested in such sacrifices.
Maybe if u put enuff Kilishi or Suya seasonin' He'l change his mind.

Like ma P says, u are in a relationship with Jesus, ask him.
Wateva u wanna do, pls do. And if He's told u this is wat i accept,
u may be able to convince Him, tell Him u really wanna thank Him but u feel
burnt offering wuld be the better way that'l acceptable to Him.
Goodluck. .{no Jonathan} 

oNe

chukwudi44:

Abraham also offered burnt offering and compulsory circumcision b4 the law was given .Why don't pastors peach these ones in church ?

LOL. . .
Cos burnt offering,circumcision aint required no more for salvation. .u havnt read that??
U hav to understand things that are salvation based and those that are social/civil conduct.
Christ has been sacrificed ones and for all, so we need not do burt sacrifice again and as paul
said there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcised nor uncircumcised, barbarian, Scythian, slave nor free, but Christ is all and in all.

However, giving or tithig remains, not as a means of Salvation, but as an act of gratitude to God for blessing u.
That was what Abraham did. He called God the POSSESOR of all things. He's acknowledgin that the victory he
had at the battle of the 5kings was because of God, he acknowledged that it's God that's prospering him, so he tithed.

So if u believe God is same to u, is the possesor of all u have, he's the one blessing u, that it's not ur intellect, or power
that has given u all what u have and the victories u'v had. . .and the ones u xpecting, how can TITHE be called fraudulent.
and some of u say it's not for New testament believer??
Plus, no one isputtin a gun at ur navel sayin UR TITHE OR UR LIFE.
Or is there?

oNe

tommy t
ma issue is the generalisation, "ALL THESE pastors".
Plus, they all at diferent level of understanding the scriptures.
But why so much about the money?
What bout incense burnin' and some other practices contrary to new testament??

Plus, u have to understand the dynamics of the church. .
Not e'rthin that is now, was then. Churches were held in homes then,
so is it wrong to have edifices now? There was a common purse of believers then,
shud all christians now share a common purse today?
So tithing has become a systematic way of giving and supportin' the church, it's
staff et al. I think most pple complainin have money issues, really?
Also, if u concetrate on how much YOU give as tithe u'l see it's meagre
compared to wat the church is doin' in terms of up keep, salaries and all.
Let's say YOU make a million in a month, ur tithe is just a 100k, forget wat OTHERS
are payin, so dyu expect the church to funtion, the pastor to live, ad pay salaries and every other thing
on 100k WHICH U MAY NOT GIVE cos u dot feel like it
Shud the salaries of workers in the church,upkeep of the pastor, bills and which are regular
now be left to a whims of the people. They have to be encouraged to do it.
And the Bible is NOT AGAINST IT.
PLUS, THERE'S A BLESSING IN GIVIN" i cant say that enuff.
So if u feel ur church and pastor shud get regular support from u, Tithing
becomes a SYSTEMATIC way to do it.

Lemme even say, let's assume u were forced to do it,
if u truly believe that it's u acknowledging tha God has blessed u,
and he does it not ones in a while and that there's a blessing in tithing
i tell u, u wuddnt mind doin it afterall.



oNe

@Kunleoshob

Well, i kow it's been dicussed in excess botherin on overfloggin.
But here's ma view to it.
Abraham gave tithe b4 the law.
Under the law pple gave diffrerent types of Tithes.
1 of it supports the ministry.
Here comes new testament, we no longer under the law.
But wait, all the commandments were under the law.
So shud we not keep the commandment cos we not under the law in new testament.

Even tho it's stated that the law was neva meant to save man.
And since we are referd to as connected to abraham, being the example
of some1 who was justified by faith , and he did pay tithe,
plus we still have ministries and pastor workin full time, y shud
payin tithe be seen as a fruad
Plus, ma pastor doesnt threaten anybody bout tithe or offerin.
He tells u, u are a believer, in a relationship wit Jesus, waeva u wanna do
that's not contradicti d scripture do.
So if in appreciation of blessin and victory abraham gave, y must i think
it's a means of extortin money from me to give, mores when there's no pressure
from ma P to give it?? Plus, i kno there's a blessin in givin?

oNe

Mnwhile Lalaboizzle, u been to FlowForRank?

oNe

lalaboi:

For the holy sake of Lord in Heaven, If “Drake’s” deep as a “Lake”…, My thought’s is Ocean 11

T.O.G - 9am In port

wow, i like. Shud we take that as a direct diss to Drizzy?


Garry Coleman passed away. . .damn, life is so short- J.Cole


oNe

@Zikky
ur point being. . ?
Not if u see instruction as information on how sth shud be done rather than LAW to be enforsed.
The entire bible from Gen to Rev is filled with instructions.
Whicheva way u slice it, New testament didnt abolish tithe cos tithe didnt start under the law.
Even in old testament if im correct it wasnt a do or die affair but instructions for those who doin it, how to do it.
It's not in the class of the THO SHALL or SHALL NOTs.

Sayin it's CONTRARY to new testament is awkward.
There are practises which are really contrary to the new tetament carried on in some orthodox churches
a carry over from the old testament. .ppple aint sayin nothin bout those o.
This money issue shaa, well, like we said do waeva u do with a good heart, but sure there's a blessing
to payin tithe.

oNe

04kaa:

of course we all know u act dumb most of the time hen you are expected to be matured, its just silly that u took up an argument t my student when i wasnt around, cowards like u take shots from afar , but when its time for u t use ue bullet proof u keep shying away from the one u took shots at, why are u trying to explain your stupidityso now that i have decided to rubbish u , u find it abusive? abi
honestly it baffles me the way u think anyone here gives 2 ffcucks about u, if people send u how in the world will u expect a motherfffcukin ebora merindinlogun to send  u? a spirit for that matter! next time u talk thrash in an ebora thread u will watch your athlete feet mouth roger dat

thanks, hope u'v had ur fill.

oNe

04kaa:

thats cuz you are daft

ok, thanks.

oNe

04kaa:

mr man shut up dia
in my books telling me ''i dont have quality reputation'' is not only an abuse but an insult and disrespect
so tell me why i have to respect someone that disrespects me and calls it teasing, you must think you are the only sensible goat around here??
oh so you are the one with quality reputation, what an asshole.roger dat
by now u should know that i no send u message, i resemble tosinadeda wey dey do mugun for u. abi my sheep dey chop under u, he be like say craze dey worry u.

So in the context of sayin u battlin is a joke,
that 'u no like ur life' and reputatation on NL
is me abusing u, and disrespecting u? seriously

So u callin an asshole, s.tupid, id.iot cos of that? . . good luck to u.
Comin from U, that take the most idi.otic shots at everybody on NL
Really, im so disappointed.
U kno normally i'l serve u right back, but nahhh. . .

Anyway like i said b4, tho U can joke, yab, and tease other pple
u cant take it when it's ur turn, but instead abuse . . that so cowardy.
Sorry the joke hit u bad in that manner.
Guess i miss judged and overated u.

oNe

04kaa:

the problem wit u is u belief u know what is on people's minds,. but u dont have the [b]dumbest idea,[/b]
all i am telling u is dont fucuukk with an ebora cuz u dnt know how many spirits he has eaten, today
what else do u want to say ??
now if u dont have anything sensible to say, can u get your hating asss off my lecture hall??

Yea i dont have d dumbest ideas, i got brightest ones
Now i dont even blame u for all the trash u been spewin,
next time u wanna eat Spirits, try avoidin the dumb ones
they hav a way of showin up in their host's utterrances
Oya go and lecture jooor. . .

oNe

U d only one hatin on U.
The easiest thing u culdda done
was to say after i praised ur students was to
simply say-yes naa, na u coach them to be that good,
or that yea, every teacher wants their student to be better.
But u took a joke badly and started shoutin HATER all bout.
mmchhewwww. . .
Idris Mr Lecture. . . Abeg to deliver ur lecture joor and stop wastin the lovely students' skool fees

oNe

In ma Opinion, PAP fell off.
he had tremendous potentialto blow, but like mutalab
he just didnt get on to doin that.

oNe

04kaa:

and he says he doesnt throw insults or abuses, bloody hypocrite,
, me i no send u message o , am not part of those that lick  asses around here
so the thing pain u like this abi, dey do am dey come,
.housefly wey say he no go hear word, na there he go follow fowl enter poo.  dey do am dey come

So sayin:. . .u dont hav a quality reputation is an abuse?
compared to u callin me  an i.diot and $t.upid?
u amaze me, but then i aint that suprise. . arnt u Floshow??

oNe

04kaa:

mr loud mouth u can tell that to the birds
if u know what is good for u u will get your urself and your hatred out of this thread,
, i wont give u any warning again, just try me

Obviously u hungry for sth.
Oya, i don try u, lets see watchu can do.
If it harder than weak rat fart, i'l applaud u

oNe

04kaa:

genuflect , dbr dares not battle ebora, except him never existent career wan end like urs did
dbr if they thing dey do u giss giss, u fit try me o. me i no send u message. ebora no be human being ebora na spirit

Razor already downsized u, there nothin left to battle.
Even when ur ego was fully intact, u didnt stand a chance
na now u wan come try?
Until u type a decent sixteen, dont even mention the word battle
and if u make me vex i go call Tosin too to rubbish u here

oNe

KunleOshob:

@DBR
New testament believers are not required to pay tithe in any form. Tithing is not part of the christian faith taught by christ and handed down to us by the apostles. Titheing was first smuggled into the church in the year 585 AD well over 500 years after christianity was established. I suggest you do some independent research of this false doctrine devoid of your church leadership who would obviously be biased.

Wat?? Tithin smuggled into the church??
When d bible say we aint under the law, does that mean we do not obey the law?
Plus, tithin came before the law.
Abrahm payed tithe to Melchi and he was not under the law.
Tithin is acknowledgin God as the possesor of e'rthi u got.
So why will doin it be contrary to new testament belief?
Yes it's not like if u dont thunder will strike u or u forced to do it
But if u understand under wat circumstances t'was initially done,
that its sth that comes from a heart of gratitude u will wanna do it.
U here talkin AD, Jesus speakin to the pharises didnt say payin tithe was bad.
He also said there are wieghtier matas, still not negletin the former{tithe}.

oNe

04kaa:

there is a wise chinese saying that goes'''''one day the hunter will become the hunted, listen to 2face and sound sultan-ebamikigbe

Till then u remain the Prey
and i doubt that will change. . no mata how much u pray

oNe

04kaa:

better, i think say u go open your big mouth talk pattua

But i kno enuff to kick ur butt before i wrap it around ur head.

oNe

04kaa:

Good for u , you are very lucky to have turned it into a joke, u kuku sabi say me i no send anybody

What else can u BATTLING me be if not a joke?
U no like ur life and reputation on NL[i][that's assumin u got any quality one][/i]
Its always been a joke, too bad u got all worked up and started talkin trash over different threads.

oNe