₦airaland Forum

basilico:
Taqqiya in action. So what if Mary was 12 years.
The topic which all earlier writers have been quoted are all swaying Aisha was 6 when betrothed and 9 at consummation.
They that today and you will jailed for an awful long time.
Seems Allah did not know that years later sleeping with a nine year old would be a gross offense . And Allah is all knowing.

So if Mary was 12, he got pregnant by 11 abi? And if Aisha was 9 and assume gave birth by 10? So what are you saying, God didn't know Mary was small as well or what.

So God to will be jail be that oooo, Sir, we are talking about event of thousands of years ago now today, of course we have civilization now.

benalvino2:
Christians cannot disobey Allah because they never worshipped Allah.

I quoted 5:51 and not 5:5 [/b]in Islam it is known that when two verses contract each other...[b] the lather one supersede the earlier one.

Again and again read between the lines, I brought in verse 5 to prove appoint, those verse never contradict each other if you understand the Tafsir, I thought I posted a link on the Quran 5:51. You should have read that before pressing the send button

benalvino2:
If you believe in Jesus and other prophets how then can you deny he is the son of God!! How can you deny the ransom the death of Christ?

What Catholics do are against the bible teachings and against Jesus example... but ISIS backs up everything they do from the Qur'an that's the difference

.

According to the last Chapter of the Quran, Allah dispute the saying that he has a son, chapter was release there were saying that Allah has a Son which is Jesus, because Jesus has no biological father, technically saying that God slept with her and impregnate her. Allah reveal the chapter (Iklas) to Mohammed (SAW) saying He has no son and He his capable of all thing. When He can turn water to blood which is not suppose to be, command the ocean to split for the people of Israelite which is not suppose to be, how much more putting a baby in a womb originally design to carry a baby. You guys under estimate the power of GOD.

Jesus was never crucify according to the Quran, these are some of the exception I mention in my reply earlier that we Muslim don't believe in

On the catholic issue, that's your on opinion, I don't mingle in other peoples religion and I will advice you to let them be. Attitude is the best way to bring people into your religion not insulting their believe.

benalvino2:
Mohammad and Jesus are not the same... not even close.... if they are the same why did Qur'an ask Muslims to hate Christians?
From those too, who call themselves Christians, We did take a covenant, but they forgot a good part of the Message that was sent to them: so We estranged them, with enmity and hatred between one and the other, to the Day of Judgment. And soon will Allah show them what they have done. 5:14

Glory be to Allah, am not sure how relevant this is to drive you point but when you read this chapter from the beginning, the verse is given a warning to Muslim, reminding them of what happen to Christian when they disobey Allah command. See link to the entire Chapter below and read from the beginning, there are verses that will surely interest you
http://quran.com/5

benalvino2:
O you who believe! Take not the Jews and the Christians for your friends and protectors: they are but friends and protectors to each other. And he among you that turns to them for friendship is of them. 5:51

The Tafsir (background story) is quite long, will post a link where this verse was discussed. But first lets quote verse 5 of the same chapter.

Quran 5:5 This day [all] good foods have been made lawful, and the food of those who were given the Scripture (Jew & Christians) is lawful for you and your food is lawful for them. And [lawful in marriage are] chaste women from among the believers and chaste women from among those who were given the Scripture (Jews & Christians) before you, when you have given them their due compensation, desiring chastity, not unlawful sexual intercourse or taking [secret] lovers. And whoever denies the faith - his work has become worthless, and he, in the Hereafter, will be among the losers.

So look at these verses, on the same chapter, what do you make of it, the question is who are this verses talking to which Jew and which Christian. The answers are provided in the link below, please read you have a lot to learn
http://www.answering-christianity.com/sami_zaatri/friends.htm

benalvino2:
That's just few... I serve God(YHWH) not Allah
Do you serve YHWH? What is the name of your god?

Glory to Almighty, am a Muslim and we believe in all His prophet which include Jesus, Moses, etc. We don't believe in Paul and all his letters in the new testament. We agree to some new testament (Matthew, Mark, Luke and john) except some apart like the Crucifixion, etc.

benalvino2:
Mary was a teen and not a child like Aisha... teen is from 13 to 20... there is no if here...
I haven't even gotten to sex slaves Mohammad took which is same thing Isis and boko haram are doing.

I dissociate myself from ISIS and Boko Haram just the way you dissociate yourself from Catholic Christian that they Worship Idols.

https://www.nairaland.com/2065160/catholic-church-members-slow-not

true2god:
That is what I called GLOBAL ISLAMIC LOGIC. You accused mohammed of ordering violence, rape and murder while muslims defend him by citing Jewish battle against the amalekites. You accuse mohammed of pedophilia, the muslims will formulate the age of mary from nowhere, etc.

The battle in the old testament are fought by the Jews as a nation against their aggressive neighbours, mostly because of land issues (just as they are still fighting the modern arabs till date). The Jews did not fight to impose their religion against the infidels or to convert them, but muslims fight to conquer for Alllah globally.

Interesting to know that you are separating yourself from the old testament because the Muslims can pick points from there to counter your attack but you will quote from old testament when it suite you saying "Deut ..:.. the lord says".

Please don't join those that doesn't read between the lines, the write up that I quote about the age of Mary are Christian discussion, the findings are from Catholic scholars, don't know where you guy that started this thread got his own from but he confirmed that Mary was a young teen as well. Please see link below again.
http://www.truthortradition.com/articles/mary-a-teenage-bride-and-mother

There are other sites as well but not ready to spoon feed you. If you follow this thread from the beginning, I told the guy that started this thread to look at Background story of any verse and avoid quoting out of context.

Please follow the thread from the begining

benalvino2:
is it right for him to have sex with Aisha?
why does he have up to 50 wives?
answer this two questions first or you would want to say it never happened?

Look at your quote above, When you brought the case of Aisha into the discussion and you ask me to answer, I didn't, you did. I answered by proving a point that, this seems to be a norm during those era (this is the summary). Mary too gave birth at her early teen except you want to say God is wicked for giving her such a burden at that age. I needed to prove a point,

benalvino2:
Hahaha... look I am not claiming it is my work!!! Am not getting paid for it or getting academic points for it so I don't care providing any link.

The person am debating with have tried to make Jesus look similar and violent like Muhammad and he failed then he turned to Mary upon knowing Aisha was just six.

Mary was a teenager but her birth was a miracle... no one had sex with her. She shouldn't be brought into this debate

Mohammed and Jesus are the same, like it or not, because they serve one Allah, getting marry and giving birth at very young age is a norm during this era, If Mary was not chosen by God she would have had sex at the age of 10-12 and gave birth to a baby at the age of 13-14. While crucify Mohammed when this is the norm during that era.

Jesus never condemn the Law of marriage then and I believe His disciples must have married their wives around the same age. This is their tradition then.

We are in western age now, even if a 17 year old get pregnant at this age, it looks like an abomination. You are using this present age to judge what happen in the past

benalvino2:
So how does this support your point? A later year is the jump from 6 to 9...

And I still don't see how this support your stands... all keeps saying she was 6 or 7 and mind you... most of these guys knows Mohammad personally. They wrote about his life and you guys use the hadith to aid you on the Qur'an yet you want to claim they have presented the prophet wrongfully

Seriously you don't know how it support my point, sincerely I don't know how much I can spoon feed you. my advise is you avoid copy and paste and read between the lines.

On the bolded part above, not all says 6 or 7, some where silence even one of the copied and paste work you did prove that it is not all, please check my previous reply.

Go an understand the chain of Hadith, I mentioned that earlier. Those that did the final compilation didn't know the prophet personally. Bukhari was born years after the death of the Prophet (SAW), if am not mistaken it should be more than 100 years after. Though is father is an Islamic scholar as well which I believe makes learning easier for him. Bukhari is a great scholar of Islam and he did and excellent work in hadith compilation. Do you know he also belong to a particular school of thought.You have a lot to learn about Islam and Muslim brother. Know before you judge

benalvino2:
15 to 16 years of age at the time of Jesus’ birth. According to Jewish customs at the time, a young woman might become betrothed to a young man as early as 12 years of age, though the consummation of their marriage through ceremony and physical intimacy would not happen until they were legally married, many months or even years later.

And she was still a virgin when Jesus was born

Okay Good to hear, but remember this was not mentioned in the Bible just some scholars putting one and two together just like Bukhari to make it a meaningful fact.

Yes some Christian scholar peg it as 15 or 16 others go lower like 10 or 12, I will quote a write up below and put the link as well.

In ancient Israel, girls married in their teens, even early teens. [2] For Mary to be betrothed (engaged) but not yet formally married, yet old enough to have and nurse the Messiah, she would have been 12-14. The Zondervan Pictorial Encyclopedia of the Bible points out, “It appears that both boys and girls were married very young. Later [after the New Testament period] the rabbis fixed the minimum age for marriage at twelve for girls and thirteen for boys.” [3]
http://www.truthortradition.com/articles/mary-a-teenage-bride-and-mother

I have seen some Christian scholar also going further saying if Mary gave birth to Jesus at the age of 12 -14, she must have been pregnant earlier than that.

See age of Mary is not mentioned in the bible just like Aisha age of marriage not mentioned in the Quran leaving room for human error/discussion. We human leave the important message of God that was passed through these Women and start unnecessary debate that we do us no good nor draw us closer to God faith.

Bro your hatred for Islam is really alarming.

benalvino2:
SAHIH AL-BUKHARI

According to ‘Ab al-Hamid b. Bayan al-Sukkari- Muhammad b. Yazid- Isma‘il (that is, Ibn Abi Khalid)- ‘Abd al-Rahman b. Abi al-Dahhak- a man from Quraysh- ‘Abd al-Rahman b. Muhammad: ‘Abd Allah b. Safwan together with another person came to ‘A’ishah, and ‘A’ishah said (to the latter), "O so-and-so, have you heard what Hafsah has been saying?" He said, "Yes, O Mother of the Faithful." ‘Abd Allah b. Safwan asked her, "What is that?" She replied, "There are nine special features in me that have not been in any woman, except for what God bestowed on Maryam bt. ‘Imran. By God, I do not say this to exalt myself over any of my companions." "What are these?" he asked. She replied, "The angel brought down my likeness; the Messenger of God married me when I was seven; my marriage was consummated when I was nine; he married me when I was a virgin, no other man having shared me with him; inspiration came to him when he and I were in a single blanket; I was one of the dearest people to him, a verse of the Qur’an was revealed concerning me when the community was almost destroyed; I saw Gabriel when none of his other wives saw him; and he was taken (that is, died) in his house when there was nobody with him but the angel and myself."

Bros you sabi copy and paste sha, if only you read through the line, some of your question would have been answered. See the colored part above, that means that Bukhari is right because the Quran mentioned it first about Aisha as wife of the Prophet (SAW), Bukhari compilation start years after the death of the Prophet (SAW).
Please I challenge you to go and copy an paste as usual the passage of the Quran that says Aisha married at 6 or 9, then there will be no more debate.

benalvino2:
According to Abu Ja‘far (Al-Tabari): [/b]The Messenger of God [b]married her, so it is said, in Shawwal, and consummated his marriage to her in a later year, also in Shawwal. (The History of Al-Tabari: The Foundation of the Community, translated by M.V. McDonald annotated by W. Montgomery Watt [State University of New York Press, Albany 1987], Volume VII, pp. 6-7)

Again look at the last Hadith on you copy and paste work, I guess you didn't read this or refuse to read between the lines or else I believe you would have deleted it. This is an Hadith reported about Aisha marriage as well and no age was mentioned. Do you know why?

Sorry about the spam blocker.

benalvino2:
[size=18pt]you said he is right remember[/size]

Is am not mistaken you are referring to Aisha marrying the Prophet being mentioned by Bukhari? Yes Bukhari is 100% right do you know why?, its because it was confirmed in the Quran as well. If only Aisha age was mentioned in the Quran there would have been no debate at all.

This situation could be related to the issue of Trinity in the bible, Christmas as Jesus birthday, Age of Mary when she gave birth to Jesus, etc. All these were not categorically mentioned in the bible which leave room for debating and division among scholars. No Christian (all denominations) debate that Mary gave birth to Jesus and the Miracle surrounding it, Why? because this was mentioned in the bible.

To show how human we are you can see some differences even in Bukhari reporting on either 6 or 7. These people are scholars and work on fact to make meaning out of it, there books are not revelation you know. Bukhari contribution to Islam cannot be over emphasized he his a great scholar but he his human as well.

Do you know how old Mary was when she gave birth to Jesus (Peace be on him). Even though not mentioned in the bible but Christian Scholars just like (Bukhari) have come up with different figure base on fact. let me know what your search his.

benalvino2:
Then compare the authors from his references to the authors I will quote below and see how all of them said she was 6 or 7 years old when he married her then had sex with her at 9... I am not quoting only from the hadith and I am quoting from people he is quote who all stated the age she was and non said she was 17 or 19... see my next post! I hope the spam system don't block me again

Most times we search for what we want to believe, there are scholars who with fact believe that the age was not nine, not sure if you understand the writer or refuse to read between the lines again, the writer quote others and put in his own fact mostly around the age of Aisha elder sister and the death of the Prophet (SAW). Do you read or just scan through. And you don't need to copy and paste those verses, I know but what you don't know is that most of the Hadith are the same, what I mean is either Bukhari extract from them or they extract from Bukhari. Go an understand Hadith compilation, which include chain of Hadith, Weak and Strong Hadith, etc. You have a lot to learn you know.

Hellooooo Sir, the link please as discussed

benalvino1:
Hahaha so the hadith is erroneous and Bukhari* are all wrong? your excuse failed... you acknowledged they were right when they write about him marrying Aisha but claim they are wrong when they said the age she was...

Your own statement


I gave you comprehensive explanation that we don't live on the mosaic law if you don't want to take it leave it... adding it to your dictionary is your own problem... I never mention fulfill = abolish

There are verse in Quran directed to Aisha, one of these verses was reveal as a result of false allegation against her, So the Quran is not wrong and Bukhari is also right, ( Check Surah An-Nur, Chapter 24. Also remember to read the Tafsir ( Reason why the Surah was reveal)). if you don't know please ask. The age Aisha got married to Prophet was not mentioned in the Quran, Hadith narration MIGHT not be perfect as these are HUMAN reporting not revelation like the Quran and are subject to error, this happens in bible as well don't need to stress so much on Hadiths.

benalvino1:
Young age? You agree then went to say he never had sex till she was old enough... please give a reference to that claim! You agreed Mohammad marry Aisha but she was never mentioned in the Qur'an [/b]meaning you take what the hadith says about his life literally... how come suddenly they are humans and not perfect?
Mohammad cannot read and write so can we all say those everything In the Qur'an is err? Remember that he did not write the text.

Sir, read between the line and stop taking us back, I have provided a claim that Aisha didn't get marry until 17-19, I also made mentioned of a chapter of the Quran that was reveal to prove her innocent. If you think 17-19 is an under age that is left to you, you might google the Law of marriage in Texas to see the acceptable age for marriage for Male and Female

[b]On Fulfill, Abolish and Mosaic Law Am not going to swallow this, it just doesn't add up, so what Law Jesus brought to the world, give me an example of the law Mosaic Law that was Abolish and new one replace by Jesus, you are just forming stories, Saul tell a whole lots of lies and you all put the main Gospel of Jesus aside (Matthew, Mark, Luke and John)

benalvino1:
In short, regardless of whether Aisha’s age at marriage was 9 or 17 or 18, there is nothing strange about it. It is necessary to evaluate every society according to its own rules. When we look at examples, it was quite a widespread custom to marry both boys and girls at a young age. However, when we look at information passed down to us, it should not be forgotten that this information to the effect that Aisha, may God be pleased with her, was born in 605, engaged at the age of 14 or 15 and married at the age of 17 or 18 is too strong to be ignored.

Always read between the lines, please read the last bolded sentence above and tell me what that means sir

Sir, Still waiting for the link

benalvino1:
are you just telling me stories or what? what do you mean by young age? what do you mean by old enough? you don't even show any text or quote any text to affirm your point.

he married her at 6 and had sex with her at 9 what is old enough?

Sahih Muslim 3310—Aisha reported: Allah’s Apostle married me when I was six years old, and I was admitted to his house when I was nine years old.

Sahih Muslim 3311—Aisha reported that Allah’s Apostle married her when she was seven years old, and she was taken to his house as a bride when she was nine, and her dolls were with her; and when he (the Holy Prophet) died she was eighteen years old.

you keep deviating from the real topic... the laws of the prophets Jesus already fulfilled... learn what fulfilled means it means the laws were abolished by Christ.

stop acting like you understand the bible.

why kill those who live Islam?
why kill those who insult Islam?
why kill those who insult Mohammad?
how is it a peaceful religion with these commands?

First Glory be to Almighty Allah the Most Perfect, am happy that the narration you quote are not Quran verses but Hadiths, that narrate the life history of the prophet compiled by HUMAN BEING, you can even see the conflicts in the narrations you quoted (See bolded part above). This are human we are prone to error just as you see some conflicts of narration in Matthew, Mark, Luke and John in the New Testament reporting same event in different ways.

Sir, if you really want to know the truth about the true age of Aisha, you must be ready to read, again Islam is not for Lazy ones, please see the link below to brush up your knowledge, Aisha should be around 17-19 when she marry the Prophet.

http://www.fountainmagazine.com/Issue/detail/At-What-Age-Did-Aisha-Marry-the-Prophet

You might want to argue that 18, 19 is a young age because we are in a jet age now but that will be a story after you comprehend the story on the link above. Even our mothers marry at early age.

On the Law: So you own Fulfilled equal Abolished, am adding this to my dictionaries of encounter, nothing we no go hear.

Funny you didn't even quote verse from Matthew, Mark, Luke and John, four of the twelve disciples that move around with Jesus during his life time. You are quoting Saul (Paul) letters to the people of Romans, Galatians and Ephesians. Matthew narrate his story about Jesus, a disciple that met Jesus one on one and protect him from persecutor like Saul (Paul), now you are quoting Paul who claim he saw Jesus and accepted him into his life 25 years after Jesus death. Paul now telling you fulfilled is abolished, bro you should no better. Despite Jesus warning on fake prophecy.

Please when you are quoting verses from the bible to support your argument stop quoting Paul letters, it will be good to quote from old testament self.

On your last four questions, again I told you to read the Tafsir of the verses, you will understand the meaning better. You have not been doing so, are you? I can provide you with links and their are android apps as well.

Sir, you listen too much to lies without further investigation, I will employ you to go through links I provided and read with open mind. Some of the answers you seek require lots of explanation, you need to read a lot to understand and to get satisfied with some answer.

Sincerely Aisha marriage age as been narrated by some hadith baffle some Muslim, I took my time reading several articles to understand the truth, reality, culture and wisdom behind it. Please do so as well.

smada13:
the copy of the Quran I have was downloaded 2 days ago myself.... what is in mine that makes it different to the several copies you have. you can check the verses i posted if they tally with yours ......

Good day Sir, the verse didn't tally, please can I have the link where you download those verses from, will really appreciate if you can provide the link, Gatiano quote from a site, I check another site and apps all tally except yours, Sir please provide the link.

Regards

smada13:
OK boss

Interesting, there is definitely something wrong with the copy of your Quran, Please Sir, snap the back and front Cover page of the Quran you are having. Meanwhile you can use the link I provided to locate correct verses of the Quran and other several online Quran site as well as hundreds of android applications. All the Quran in my possession tally, The only difference you will see is in translation to English, don't know where you get your. Please snap front and back cover so as to trace the origin. Thank you sir.

smada13:
We will go into other details after this question is answered cuz that my friend has absconded..... without giving me reply..... Thanks a million

So what's the other details, May God give us understanding

smada13:
Bro, you tried with the first verse but with the others, you made the same mistake a Muslim friend made on my Facebook page by substituting verse 88 for 89, 137 for 138 and 213 for 214...... you need to supply the verse before those verses.....

I have a minor question though.....

is my own version of Quran not properly numbered or you people decided to bypass those verses intentionally or they have been omitted completely from the "real" Quran?


We will go into other details after this question is answered cuz that my friend has absconded..... without giving me reply..... Thanks a million

Morning Sir, if you are using an online version please provide the link and if its hard copy you can made a snap shot and attached the picture. Gatiano quoted the right words attached to those verses, unfortunately you didn't quote the words you just supply the verse numbers.

See link below for an online Quran Version
http://quran.com/2

gatiano:
2:88 And they say: Our hearts are repositories. Nay, Allah has cursed them on account of their unbelief; so little it is that they believe.

this should start from 85 till verse 95 if i'm right, however what is repositories? it is a place where things are stored. This is refering to hypocrites, and also those that don't know but claim that they do while misdirecting the masses. (i need more from anybody with differ opinion).
.

Thanks for the respond, May Allah increase you in knowledge

My apology if I quote you wrong,
is it right for him to have sex with Aisha? I believe you wanted to say He had sex with Aisha at under age, Right? NO, though Aisha was betrothed to Him at a young age but He never had sex with her until she was matured and even agreed to marry the prophet. Again you need to get the fact and stop listening to hear say. Don't expect you to believe whatever I say anyway.

why does he have up to 50 wives? NO, Google is you friend on this one, very obvious that your accept any word that tannish the image of Islam without cross checking for fact. But where do you get all this lies from bro, Mohammed married 11 wives during his life time.

Well since you don't believe in the old testament, I will have ask you how many wives the great King Solomon, David, Jacob, etc has and God never condemn them and God never condemn the act even in the new testament.

About the LAW: Look at the verse again it says Prophets (in Plural form) David, Abraham, Jacob etc not Mosses alone. all the prophets bring God guardians (Law) which compliment one another and never contradict each other except for people who don't understand God verses and believe the book is full of violence. They all bring their Laws and Jesus also fulfilled them.

And if you know better you can tell me which Prophets (in plural as in the verse) is Jesus talking about?,

You don't need to explain the meaning of those verse to me, I thought I stated that in my reply clearly that I know their meaning, Jesus didn't meant violence I know, I only which and pray you understand the meaning of some of the Quran verses as I do with bible. Am a Muslim and I take my time to understand and investigate Bible verses when some people (Muslims & Christian) try to quote verses out of context.

"Quoting the Quran out of Context". There was a link on my last reply, did you take you time to go through the Chapter and the Tafsir (Background story), One of the verses you quoted was Quran 4:76, the Surah is An-Nisa, you can search for the Tafsir on Google the way you search for all those Verses you are quoting, believe Islam is not for Lazy one, God might be given you a chance right now showing you the light if only you can research for fact.

Matthew 10:34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. has a meaning I don't know... but could you show me where Jesus used a sword?

The link below help to explain the verse above better, you can't understand the verse without understanding the historical culture of Israelites (Tafsir), same thing happen to the Quran verses, you need to understand the Arab culture, situation and circumstances the Muslims were in when the verses were reveal. Jesus meant no arm with the word sword but verses like this are not for lazy people.

http://www.answering-islam.org/Authors/Arlandson/matthew_10_34.htm

John 3:16 on the only begotten son, this argument can go on and on with the issue of David coming in to play as well, I have met different Christian with different interpretation of the word Begotten, sincerely I have heard enough, some will say begotten not made, David is begotten not the only begotten, David adopted begotten, it is old testament, etc. Again just like the Matthew 10:34, you need to understand the Tafsir, before you understand the meaning of the word begotten as used by Jesus. First translate the word to Hebrew (Jesus speak Hebrew not English) and relate it with Jewish culture, you will be surprise how often such word is use among Hebrew just the way Naija use the word WAHALA DEY.

benalvino1:
you quote two verse from the old testament, [b]yes the old testament is full of violence, could be more violent than the Qur'an [/b]but Christians live their lives based on the new testament... the teaching of Jesus.

Quran (2:244) - "Then fight in the cause of Allah, and know that Allah Heareth and knoweth all things."

Quran (2:216) -

Quran (3:56) - "As to those who reject faith, I will punish them with terrible agony in this world and in the Hereafter, nor will they have anyone to help."

Quran (3:151) -

Quran (4:74) -

Quran (4:76) - "Those who believe fight in the cause of Allah…"



Quran (4:89) -

Quran (4:95) -

Quran (4:104) - "And be not weak hearted in pursuit of the enemy; if you suffer pain, then surely they (too) suffer pain as you suffer pain..." Is pursuing an injured and retreating enemy really an act of self-defense?

Quran (5:33) -

Quran (8:12) - "I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them" No reasonable person would interpret this to mean a spiritual struggle.

Quran (8:15) -

Quran (8:39) -

Quran (8:57) - "If thou comest on them in the war, deal with them so as to strike fear in those who are behind them, that haply they may remember."

Quran (8:67) - "It is not for a Prophet that he should have prisoners of war until he had made a great slaughter in the land..."

Quran (8:59-60) - "And let not those who disbelieve suppose that they can outstrip (Allah's Purpose). Lo! they cannot escape. Make ready for them all thou canst of (armed) force and of horses tethered, that thereby ye may dismay the enemy of Allah and your enemy."

Quran (8:65) - "O Prophet, exhort the believers to fight..."

Quran (9:5) -

notice most of these verse are not giving commands to a particular person or attack a particular nation... it always use unbelievers! which means believers of Allah should attack unbelievers of Allah! all this verses are not restricted by historical context that's why you see boko haram, Isis, al-shebab etc. following their prophets foot steps.

when the command was given to kill the Jews and Christians where ever you find them... is that not waging war against all Jews and Christians from the 4 corners of the world?

O God here we go again, first am totally against you that Old testament is full of violence, God in the bible (old testament) is not a violent God as you assume (New testament God=Old Testament God), I only quote from context (I know the true story, just feeding a dose of your medicine), Good that you research to gain the background knowledge (But not enough), I employ you to do the same for the Quranic verses you are quoting out of context.

I think there is more you need to learn about the bible itself, I don't expect a knowledgeable Christian to say the old testament is full of violence except you don't understand the background story of some of the verses. If you say Christians follow the new testament remember that Jesus said in the book of Matthew "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them". word for the wise

I don't want to start the issue about the validity of the new testament as a word of God apart from Matthew, Mark, Luke and John. You still have a lot to learn, your claim that some old testament verses are violent statement is not Good for a Christian believe.

Again you have quoted out of context Quran Ayah claiming it contain violence, you need to listen to the Tafsir of these verses to know while and whom these verses were directed to, just the way Hosea 13:16 and Deuteronomy 7:2 were directed to some group. If you need help in understanding better am ready to help.

Speaking of Violence in the new testament "Am not against what Jesus did" but some people believe that as a Messenger He should have preach to them rather than taking law in His own hand and destroying source of livelihood of these people, he should have report them to the authority of the land.

Matthew 21:12 Jesus entered the temple courts and drove out all who were buying and selling there. He overturned the tables of the money changers and the benches of those selling doves.

I know we will have justification for what Jesus did because we believe in Him ( I do believe in Him and I support his action), the Jew were angry with him because they don't believe in Him.

See verses below, don't try to explain to me, I understand those verses better and the actual meaning of it, just following your foot step by quoting out of context.

Matthew 10:34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.

Matthew 15:4 For God commanded, saying, Honour thy father and mother: and, He that curseth father or mother, let him die the death.

Luke 22:35-38 And he said unto them, When I sent you without purse, and scrip, and shoes, lacked ye any thing? And they said, Nothing. Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one. For I say unto you, that this that is written must yet be accomplished in me, And he was reckoned among the transgressors: for the things concerning me have an end. And they said, Lord, behold, here are two swords. And he said unto them, It is enough

Luke 12:49 I have come to cast fire upon the Earth; and how I wish it were already kindled! But I have a baptism to undergo, and how distressed I am until it is accomplished! Do you suppose that I came to grant peace on earth? I tell you, no, but rather division; for from now on five members in one household will be divided, three against two and two against three. They will be divided, father against son and son against father, mother against daughter and daughter against mother, mother-in-law against daughter-in-law and daughter-in-law against mother-in-law

Do you also know that Quran chapters were reveal in two different locations, Mecca and Medina, the location of the revelation and the present situation of the Muslim then determine what is reveal. Need to Know the Tafsir, you have more to learn than you Imagine.
Below is link to background story of Surah Al-Masadd from Wordpree but first the English translation of the Chapter, read the chapter then read the reason while the chapter was release (Tafsir) from wordpress and other sources attached

1. http://www.noblequran.com/translation/surah111.html
2.http://versebyversequranstudycircle./2012/07/24/tafseer-of-surah-al-masad/
2. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Masadd

Your quote above about Hitler on Arab is a political statement just to gain Arab support and nothing more. Hitler personally hated all non-Aryans, and since Arabs are Semites, they fall into the same category as Jews. Nonetheless, various Arab countries were sympathetic to the Nazis not because of Hitler's Anti-Jewish policies, but because in the late 30s, the Nazis promised to rid the Arabs of their French and British rulers. Because of this, there was some Arab support of the Nazis, but once Halter's actual agenda became clear, Arab support dried up very rapidly.

Hitler did actually make alliances with some Arab nations - but this was based upon anti-Jewish and anti-British policies and declarations - which the Arab nations were all too pleased to swallow and run with - despite what Hitler was doing to achieve his objectives.

There is no doubt, however, that when those alliances had fulfilled his needs he would have turned on them as they did not fit his Aryan ideal.

We see our politician forming alliance and saying all sort of things just to please the other group, tribe and religion, we don't need to go far to know that Hitler was lying, those close to him know that he love know race apart from Aryan.

This is purely a game of policy does not quantify the justification of hatred to other religion, We all know who OBJ and IBB are in this country, suddenly one become APC friend and the other become GEJ father all because the enemy of my enemy is my friend so they say.

On the second part and also I mentioned earlier that you keeping quoting from the context, do you know the background story, how the Quraish persecute the Muslims out of Mecca and sold their properties, there is far more to what you quote and you know that.

All the point put together by Samuel green from where you draw your article are without background history, we need to stop quoting from context in order not to mislead people, if we are to sincerely call people to our religion lets base it on fact and there is no fact without proof and no proof without storyline either simple or extensive.

Assuming I quote the following bible verse to a Muslims and Non-Muslims alike just to drive home my argument with out the true background story, just what you are doing on Nairaland and what Samuel Green is doing with his article.

Hosea 13:16 "Samaria shall bear her guilt, because she has rebelled against her God; they shall fall by the sword; their little ones shall be dashed in pieces, and their pregnant women ripped open."


Deuteronomy 7:2 And when the Lord your God gives them over to you, and you defeat them, then you must devote them to complete destruction.[a] You shall make no covenant with them and show no mercy to them


Bros, this is a two way thing, you need background understanding for you to comprehend that the God in the Bible is a merciful God but direct judging from the above bible verses will make it difficult for anyone to agree except with background knowledge.

benalvino1:
yeah Christians convert that's the thing but the bigger question is what happens if someone leaves Islam? the answer is death... you see the bondage? out of all the Muslim I know, only 2 don't drink alcohol but I know more than 20...

Mohammad spread Islam by the sword and this you can't deny.

about the land your Qur'an said Allah gave the Jews the land! Hitler killed Jews because of Islam... try Google the role of Islam in the holocaust.
if Allah said the land belongs to the Jews that he gave it to them.. then why do Arabs want to exterminate the Jews? because it is a command in the Qur'an. Palestinians are not fighting about land but they are trying to implement Allahs command. they have said it in Egypt, Iran, morocco and many Arab countries on their spiritual TV programs that it is not about land.

Morning Sir, From your first Paragraph and as you mentioned both side get new convert and definitely all creature will die but who lives in bondage among all religion of this world am not talking of Islam and Christianity alone, Jew, Hindu, etc, this can only be proving in life after death has every religion believe the other religion are false, even the Jew don't believe in Christ but Muslim do. No man has ever gone to the great beyond and return to tell us the true religion, if you believe other religion are living in bondage so does Muslim and Jew believe as well that Christian are living in bondage and we all (all religions) have scriptures and theory to backup our believes.

Thank God you know Muslims that don't drink alcohol even though they are few, Am a Muslim and I know hundreds of Muslims that don't drink alcohol and if am to start counting there would be more than 30 Muslims that I know that drink Alcohol as well, Islamic stand on Alcohol is very clear, you don't drink it, you don't work where it is been produce you don't encourage but we are all human we all have our personal opinion about life and religion. Most people that readily drink alcohol that I know are Christians and I know lots of Christians (Tense of them) that don't drink alcohol mostly because of their Christian believes and few for health reason. If am right Jehovah Witness don't drink Alcohol at all.
Alcohol or no alcohol shouldn't be a criteria for religion justification/criticism and if am right there are more Christian that you know that drink Alcohol than Muslims.

"Mohammed spread Islam by Sword" This is not true, you need to know the story behind all these battle fought during the life of Mohammed, they are defensive battle not offensive. You still have a lot to learn in Islam if you really want to win the heart of a Muslim. Your statements "Allah is a devil. Mohammed is a rapist" do you know they are offensive? How would you feel when those statement are directed to your beloved ones. Well Muslim will never say such to the Prophets in the Bible we believe in them as well, they are all prophet of Allah. There is something called "Articles of Faith" in Islam, you can Google that to learn more.

On your last paragraph about who own Israel/Palestine land. This can go on and on, every quoting scriptures to relate their claims, I don't know who own the land only God knows. According to the two scripture, God promise Israelite a safe land but what we don't know is if this land were Virgin or pre-occupied, according to the bible Israelite wonder around four forty year or so before getting to the land, wonder if it will take forty years to trek from Egypt to Israel a boarder town, before 1946 the population of the Hebrew/Jew was 6% in Palestine, Majority were Arabs/Muslims and few Christians as well.

"Islam role in the holocaust" I love to read and learn so I Google it as you said, if you read between the lines with open mind you will see Islam has no hand in this (You are mixing Religion & Tribe), Hitler see Jew and Arab as of same descendant that they are both racist (to an extent I believe this), just that Arab and Hitler has a common enemy which is the British who colonize Arabian lands. All the articles I read didn't say Muslim world played a terrible role during the period as some Muslims were found to have save Jew life. Even part of what they did was to accommodate Jew in Palestine land and create a portion for Jew to create a state know as Israel today, this is a good gesture from the Muslim world. Wonder why the catholic in Rome didn't extend such offer to the Jew?

As mentioned earlier, I notice that you are confusing Religion and tribe, Arab is a tribe and Islam is a religion, there are Arab Christians as well, what play during the holocaust was politics/hatred of human not of religion, it should have been the role of Arab in Holocaust not role of Islam.

Do you know that Hitler is a Christian??

Some link that I Google on the Holocaust, thanks bro we learn new things every day.
http://www.jpost.com/Jewish-World/Jewish-Features/New-booklet-reveals-Muslim-acts-of-heroism-during-Holocaust
http://www.projetaladin.org/holocaust/en/40-questions-40-answers/the-nazis-the-holocaust-and-muslims.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_rescue_efforts_during_the_Holocaust
http://pamelageller.com/category/mufti-of-jerusalem-islams-role-in-the-holocaust/

benalvino1:
I have seen... I lived with one and I have dated several Muslim girls and my girl friend now is a Norwegian... she was Muslim but never liked the religion... most of them are in bondage and can't leave or be killed...

Christians follow Jesus who is kind n humble... Muslims follow Mohammad who is a criminal and rapists... when Christians are kind, they are following Jesus footstep and when boko haram are ruthless they are following Mohammad... the nice Muslims don't follow their prophet therefore they don't really practice Islam.

I know much about Islam...

you have seen the fight between Israel and Palestine for a land that belongs to the Jews... it causes millions of muslim to match all over the world, Jews being attacked but no one except very few is matching against Isis killing both Christians n muslim... its because they approve what Isis is doing and they know its exactly from the Qur'an

"She was a Muslim but never like religion" I guess your girl friend is a Christian now and also you should know that there are Christian all over the world converting to Islam as well, just as Muslim are converting to Christian too or what do you say they are not strong Christians, I have seen pastors converting to Islam after returning from Jerusalem. They all have there reasons for converting.

If you read the Life history of Mohammed, you will see that people that converted to Islam during his life time where inspire by the Mohammed attitude and words not by Miracle or conquer. You need to Google some of the Hadiths that narrate his life history.
Who do you think the nice Muslims as you said follow? You can't be a Muslim without following the teaching and practice of the prophet. And you are not a Muslim when you deviate or bring innovations that are not part of teaching and practice of Mohammed (Boko Haram, ISIL and the likes).

Sincerely I don't know how much you know about Islam but you need to know More,

There have been several write up on this that you can find on the internet, if you read with open and unbiased mind you will no the true owner on the land. The map on the link below simplified how Israel have been expanding after been accommodated by Palestine (Muslim, Christian and Hebrew) after the World War II.

http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/mapstellstory.html

I don't know who actually own the land, every group have been cooking up various stories to support their argument, I only wish both side stop their senseless killing of innocent people. The Palestine (Muslim, Arabs, Christians, Hebrews) have been living peacefully before the creation of Israel 68 years ago. I wonder why Hiltler hate them (Jew) so much, may be the same reason you hate Islam so much

Meenh take am easy oo, somehow bump into you thread and I can see your hatred for Islam. But wait, have you never seen a Muslim with a good attitude or what. My question is not based on just this thread but your post generally.

There is something call Tafsir in Islam, they explain a lot of the Quran Ayah just the way pastors try to explain Bible verses. Every chapter of the Quran was reveal Prior to and/or after certain event, you need to understand these events in order to understand the Quran.

ISIS, Boko Haram and the likes are really a big issue for Islam, and lots of Muslim communities has come out to denounce them but what more can I say, until this is proving otherwise, our claim that they are not Muslims will certainly fall on deaf ears.

Its very easy for Boko Haram, ISIS and the likes to quote Quran verses which most non-Muslim that doesn't understand the Tafsir of those Ayah will believe they are doing Islamic biding.

You need to take it easy and learn more about Islam, I was once like you (on the Islamic side) quoting bible from context just to make a superior argument, never judge a tribe, religion etc by individual or group attitude, there are good Muslims and Christians, there are bad ones as well, there are rich people in every religion as well as poor ones, criminals and fake men/women of God in both religion. There are terrorist in both religion if only we know and remember history.

You can PM me will love to chat more

How Much and what are the mileage

kunlebco:
2T1BR38E53C110245
Help check. Send report to kunlebco@yahoo.com

Check your email


Vehicle Information:
2003 TOYOTA COROLLA CE/LE/S

VIN: 2T1BR38E53C110245

SEDAN 4 DR

1.8L L4 FI DOHC 16V

FRONT WHEEL DRIVE
Standard Equipment | Safety Options







Sold at salvage auction
Sold at salvage auction

Accident/damage reported
Accident / Damage reported

3 or more previous owners
4 Previous owners

Service information available
1 Service record available

Last reported odometer reading/mileage
104,972 Last reported odometer reading

kayoday:
I need help to check the VIN 5TDZA23C66S389352
Thanks

Vehicle Information:
2006 TOYOTA SIENNA CE/LE

VIN: 5TDZA23C66S389352

SPORTS VAN

3.3L V6 FI DOHC 24V

FRONT WHEEL DRIVE
Standard Equipment | Safety Options


No accident/damage reported
No accident / damage reported to CARFAX

CARFAX 1-Owner vehicle
CARFAX 1-Owner vehicle

Service information available
50 Service records available

Registered as a personal vehicle
Personal vehicle

Last reported odometer reading/mileage
329,129 Last reported odometer reading




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09/05/2005 NICB Vehicle manufactured
and shipped to original dealer
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11/07/2007 111,581 Riverhead Toyota
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09/20/2008 154,147 New York
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10/01/2009 195,905 New York
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06/17/2010 225,848 Riverhead Toyota
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10/09/2010 Riverhead Toyota
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11/13/2010 244,559 Riverhead Toyota
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02/02/2011 253,537 Riverhead Toyota
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02/03/2011 New York
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04/09/2011 260,580 Riverhead Toyota
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07/02/2011 271,109 Riverhead Toyota
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08/06/2011 275,497 Riverhead Toyota
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11/19/2011 285,000 Riverhead Toyota
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01/21/2012 296,770 Riverhead Toyota
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02/11/2012 299,528 New York
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07/07/2012 317,800 Riverhead Toyota
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08/13/2012 322,581 Riverhead Toyota
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riverheadtoyota.com Battery replaced
09/15/2012 327,089 Riverhead Toyota
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10/08/2012 329,129 Auto Auction
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Millions of used vehicles are bought and sold at auction every year.


04/18/2013 Vehicle Exporter Vehicle exported from
Newark, NJ
and imported to
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Peacefulsazi:
good day, please can you help me check the history of the car with VIN number: 4T1BE30K55U080274, and send the report to this e-mail address o4osaz@yahoo.com, if i should send recharge card as appreciation will it not be loaded by the users of this site before u see it? otherwise send me the phone number to send it to.

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Vehicle Information:
2005 TOYOTA CAMRY LE/XLE/SE

VIN: 4T1BE30K55U080274

SEDAN 4 DR

2.4L L4 FI DOHC 16V

FRONT WHEEL DRIVE
Standard Equipment | Safety Options

No accident/damage reported
No accident / damage reported to CARFAX

CARFAX 1-Owner vehicle
CARFAX 1-Owner vehicle

Service information available
27 Service records available

Registered as a personal vehicle
Personal vehicle

Last reported odometer reading/mileage
151,889 Last reported odometer reading

This is a very difficult tax to do, especially copying and pasting to a readable format.

blinzho69:
Hello, pls kindly help with this check. Send to blinzho@yahoo.com. Jtjha31u140068054. Thanks.

VIN attached

Vehicle Information:
2004 LEXUS RX 330
VIN: JTJHA31U140068054
4 DOOR WAGON/SPORT UTILITY
3.3L V6 FI 24V
ALL WHEEL DRIVE
Standard Equipment | Safety Options

Ownership History
The number of owners is estimated
Owner 1 Owner 2
Year purchased 2004 2014
Type of owner Personal Personal
Estimated length of ownership 10 yrs. 2 mo. 2 months
Owned in the following states/provinces Utah Utah
Estimated miles driven per year 18,340/yr ---
Last reported odometer reading 187,896 ---
Owner 1 Owner 2
187,896
No accident / damage reported to CARFAX
2 Previous owners
At least 1 open recall
5 Service records available
Last reported odometer
reading

Date: Mileage: Source: Comments:
05/31/2004 NICB Vehicle manufactured
and shipped to original dealer
06/11/2004 1 Service Facility Pre-delivery inspection completed
Paint sealant/fabric guard applied/reapplied
06/12/2004 Dealer Inventory
Utah
Vehicle sold
06/22/2004 14 Utah
Motor Vehicle Dept.
Logan, UT
Title #UT2678001
Vehicle purchase reported
Registration issued or renewed
First owner reported
Titled or registered as
personal vehicle
Passed safety inspection
07/12/2004 1,584 Service Facility Safety inspection completed
06/07/2005 Utah
Motor Vehicle Dept.
Logan, UT
Title #UT2678001
Registration issued or renewed
Passed safety inspection
Vehicle color noted as Gray
06/27/2006 Utah
Motor Vehicle Dept.
Logan, UT
Title #UT2678001
Registration issued or renewed
Passed safety inspection
Vehicle color noted as Gray
06/04/2007 Utah
Motor Vehicle Dept.
Logan, UT
Title #UT2678001
Registration issued or renewed
Passed safety inspection
Vehicle color noted as Gray
06/30/2008 Utah
Motor Vehicle Dept.
Logan, UT
Title #UT2678001
Registration issued or renewed
Passed safety inspection
Vehicle color noted as Gray
06/10/2009 Utah
Motor Vehicle Dept.
Logan, UT
Title #UT2678001
Registration issued or renewed
Passed safety inspection
Vehicle color noted as Gray
06/30/2010 Utah
Motor Vehicle Dept.
Logan, UT
Title #UT2678001
Registration issued or renewed
Passed safety inspection
Vehicle color noted as Gray
10/21/2010 Lexus, a Division of
Toyota Motor Sales,
USA, Inc.
Manufacturer Recall Issued
NHTSA #10V499
Recall #ALG Safety Recall ALG - Certain 2006
Model
Year Lexus IS and GS Vehicles & Certain 2004
through 2006 Model Year RX Vehicles Brake
Master
Cylinder Cup Replacement
Status: Remedy Available
Locate an authorized Lexus dealer near you to
schedule an appointment
Description: Toyota is recalling certain Model Year 2005-2006 Avalon, Model Year 2004-
2006 Highlander, Model Year 2004-2006 Lexus RX, and Model Year 2006 Lexus GS and IS
vehicles. Brake fluid containing polymers is used that acts as lubricants for certain brake
system components. If replacement brake fluid is used that does not contain such polymers,
or that contains only small amounts, a part of the rubber seal located at the rear of the brake
master cylinder may become dry, and the seal may curl during movement of the piston. If
this occurs, a small amount of brake fluid could slowly leak from the seal into the brake
booster.
CARFAX Vehicle History Report for this 2004 LEXUS RX 330: JTJHA31U140068054 Page 3 of 6
http://www.carfax.com/showroom-cfx/generateReport.cfx?reportRunParms=9rqoB6bn7... 12/28/2014
- Learn more about this recall
02/24/2011 Lexus, a Division of
Toyota Motor Sales,
USA, Inc.
Manufacturer Recall Issued
NHTSA #11V112
Recall #BLC Safety Recall BLC - Certain
2004 ?
Early 2007 Model Year RX 330, RX 350 and
RX 400h
Vehicles Driver's Side Floor Carpet Cover and
Retention Clip
Status: Remedy Available
Locate an authorized Lexus dealer near you to
schedule an appointment
07/01/2011 129,432 Import Auto
Logan, UT
435-752-1246
State inspection completed
Cabin air filter replaced/cleaned
07/06/2011 Utah
Motor Vehicle Dept.
Logan, UT
Title #UT2678001
Registration issued or renewed
Loan or lien reported
Passed safety inspection
Vehicle color noted as Gray
07/06/2012 Utah
Motor Vehicle Dept.
Logan, UT
Title #UT2678001
Registration issued or renewed
Loan or lien reported
Passed safety inspection
Vehicle color noted as Gray
07/25/2013 Utah
Motor Vehicle Dept.
Logan, UT
Title #UT2678001
Registration issued or renewed
Loan or lien reported
Passed safety inspection
Vehicle color noted as Gray
05/20/2014 185,972 Import Auto
Logan, UT
435-752-1246
Recommended maintenance performed
Emissions inspection completed
Oil and filter changed
Brake rotor(s) replaced/resurfaced
Front brakes replaced
Rear brakes replaced
Safety inspection completed
Brake rotor(s)/drum(s) resurfaced
05/23/2014 186,046 Young Toyota Honda
Logan, UT
435-752-5636
Maintenance inspection completed
A leak of brake fluid could lead to a change in brake pedal feel and overtime a degradation
in braking performance increasing the risk of a crash.
Remedy: Dealers will replace the seal with a newly designed one. This service will be
performed free of charge. The safety recall began on November 15, 2010. Owners may
contact Toyota at 1-800-331-4331 and Lexus at 1-800-255-3987.
Description: Toyota is recalling certain Model Year 2004-2006 Highlander, Highlander
Hybrid, and Model Year 2004-2007 Lexus RX330, RX350, and RX400h vehicles. If the
forward retention clip used to secure the floor carpet cover, which is located in front of the
center console, is not installed properly the cover may lean toward the accelerator pedal
and interfere with the accelerator pedal arm.
If this occurs, the accelerator pedal may temporarily become stuck in a partially depressed
position rather than return to the idle position. A stuck accelerator pedal may result in
unintended and sustained vehicle speeds and make it difficult to stop, increasing the risk of
a vehicle crash.
Remedy: Dealers will replace the floor carpet cover with a newly designed one free or
charge. Owners may contact Toyota at 1-800-331-4331.
CARFAX Vehicle History Report for this 2004 LEXUS RX 330: JTJHA31U140068054 Page 4 of 6
http://www.carfax.com/showroom-cfx/generateReport.cfx?reportRunParms=9rqoB6bn7... 12/28/2014
Millions of used vehicles
are bought and sold at
auction every year.
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youngtoyotahonda.com
08/31/2014 187,538 Dealer Inventory Vehicle offered for sale
09/22/2014 187,896 Auto Auction
Desert Southwest
Region
Listed as a dealer vehicle
Sold at auction

shaibolo:
Kindly check this VIN for me: JMZGY893771449266. Thank you

Please check your VIN, there is no record of this VIN on carfax

Is the car still available, where is the Location for inspection please.

Hi, is the car still available, where is the location for inspection, can you provide the engine picture and also the VIN