₦airaland Forum

A001:
You're largely right. But I think online discussion and engagement will only help with Nigerians in the South-West, South-East, and overseas.

A sizeable percentage of the North's densely populated people are not on Nairaland.
Even the educated ones with Internet access are too conservative. A good example is an intellectual like Amoto94
Looking at his takes on this issue, you realize the situation is a dire one.

I share this feeling of hopelessness with you. Amoto94 is the most outspoken moslem here and he presents himself as well read, so for him to not be much different from the ones carrying bombs into churches is truly heartbreaking. It's them that even worsens the issue sef because they are best at polishing their words and vocalizing their dangerous ideology masked in deceitful tones. Have you seen his topics on his profile? He's a hardcore extreme fundamentalist.


I think that with time, more of them will hopefully become more exposed too. It's a question of time.

izzou:
[color=royalblue]Thank you Nwanne

We have clearly deviated from the point and are talking about crossing lines

Why would someone post anything about Mohammed in an academic WhatsApp group? Does it make sense?
If Deborah had posted her religious stuff there, would her Muslim murderers have allowed it?
Suddenly it's blasphemy and a line that shouldn't be crossed.
Very useless set of people...[/color]

I mean!! I'm still yet to see someone point out the so called "blasphemy".

For example, today I kept asking amoto94, if I called Mohammed a pedophile, am I blaspheming??
He just danced around the issue. Important to note that I am factually and technically correct.
Mohammed married a 6 year old kid and had sex with a 9 year old kid. That is pedophilia by definition. His actions have inspired such traditions like the picture below.

So tell me again, is it blasphemous for me to call Mohammed a pedophile? Who determines what is blasphemy and what did our sweet Deborah do that will justify her being burnt to crisps whether by mob or sharia court??

A001:
Apart from online discussion, do you really think there's anything that can be done to prevent a repeat of such a gruesome act in the future in the North?

Well, you can't really say "apart from online discussion". The world has now gone digital. Campaigns are now carried fully online. Just like, that terrorist sympathizer pilot that tweeted support for the mob has been fired for his tweet.
Using our Whatsapp status, Facebook pages, Twitter posts. We can all amplify our voices massively.

You know, you seek out online echo chambers and you try and burst their bubble.
I mean, this Deborah's issue really touches me badly because I know there is nothing wrong with what she did and that is something which a lot of us have the privilege of doing.

Sometimes in my own colleagues Whatsapp group, some over zealous christian people would post those silly messages that will tell you to pass the message to seven people so that you will receive God's grace and if you don't, God will do so and so, the way I dey take change am for them ehh, I'm now imagining being killed, for doing what everyone knows is right.

The world is now digital. We have a much wider reach than ever before and we should use it as much as we can.

Shebi you people are seeing what I've been warning you about. The negative effects of whataboutism, suddenly we have 10 pages discussing things that had absolutely nothing to do with Deborah's death. Such that even the terrorist apologetic has found succor in the deviation.

Whataboutism serves to only deflect from the issue on ground. When something bad is done, people who align with that bad deed will seek to divert your attention to something else. THE AIM IS ALWAYS TO MAKE IT APPEAR AS IF TWO WRONG MAKES A RIGHT
Eg, if you talk about the dangers of cybercrime, it's apologetics will begin to hammer on the corruption of politicians as a reason why. FALSE EQUIVALENCE.

Let's review exactly what has gone down in the last 3 days again so that someone can tell me again why we suddenly have 10 pages arguing origins of Christianity.

First, we hear that a girl has been beaten and burnt to death by her own classmates and countrymen. We are all shocked by this, we further see the video of the barbarity and watch with tears how her own classmates gleefully kill this helpless lady in the most despicable and tortuous method as done by a retrograde mob. We further see perpetrators gleefully take ownership of their hedonistic actions.

We seek to know what could inspire this entire seemingly well-groomed young group to engage in such hedonism and we're told she did the unthinkable by blaspheming against the prophet. At this point we know it's not right that someone is killed brutally for speaking ill of a man dead for thousands of years but we still wait eagerly to hear exactly what blasphemy is spoken of here. From the transliteration of the released audio, NOBODY CAN POINT OUT ANY BLASPHEMY UTTERED SO FAR

At this juncture, we should all be furious and angry that an innocent student has been murdered by her classmates for nothing and has become a victim of mass delusion and an ignorant and temperamental society. But instead of the mutual furore and sorrow that should be shared by all and sundry, we begin to see prominent personel voicing support for and backing the actions of the barbaric mob. We see a whole presidential candidate retract his condemnation for the barbarity and instead release a statement that he has fired his social media team and that the statement did not come from him.

This begins to give you a window into the minds of your fellow countrymen. One where even it's leaders are afraid of condemning evil when it has occurred and indirectly shows how pregnant the future is, with a potential of reoccurrence. When evil is not condemned, it is tacitly accepted.

So please can someone tell me again why we now have people arguing about Christianity in the case of Deborah?? I mean, for all we know she could even be an atheist, seeing as we see nothing of her engaging in a religious argument, she is simply telling people to stop making wrong use of a particular group platform.

WHATABOUTISM IS A DANGER TO HEALTHY DISCOURSE. Rather than us, a rough sample of the best young minds our country has to offer, sitting down to discuss ways and avenue by which we can at least try to enlighten our fellow countrymen and ourselves on unity and a utopian future and how we can achieve it, we painfully let the narrative be hijacked and diverted by unscrupulous elements with a cynical affinity with terrorists apologetics. Let's do better.

BikeMan:
Donjazet, your boy Jorginho is our captain at a major final. Time for him to show us he's really what you say he is.

I'll say he did show everyone who he really was, wouldn't you agree. The very best DM there is out there. The 2nd best performing player of all 30 players that stepped into the pitch yesterday.

Ibime:
He did well from halftime on. He's a tournament player, only good for sitting back, not robust enough to provide consistency for a team on the front-foot looking to win every game. The criticism still stands. Thiago outpassed him 2 to 1 and Hendo outpassed him handsomely.

Ibime, it will not kill you to open your mouth and give this man his dues. He's much better than any DM out there. Swallow this your agenda and give the man his dues.

Amoto94:
We have argued about this marriage issue over and over and my stance on this is known to you, why bring it up this time around? There was this companion whose age difference between him and his son is mere 13years here you have your answer.

I'm sorry I have forgotten and I still don't understand your answer and position on this.
Is it blasphemy or not, please clarify.

Jodera:
The big question is, what was even the cause of the rebuke? That's the issue most Nigerians are even oblivious to.
Imagine you threatening me to revoke my statement and God in a general WhatsApp group yet you publish yours.
Then when you're rebuked, you turn around and say I'm blaspheming. Isn't that madness??

Like?? It's not as if this girl actually went all activist or anything on them about religion? She just cautioned them to stop diverting the class group from it's aim.

I mean, look around all the christian pages on nairaland, you see people like me calling christians all kinds of name like sheeple and deluded folks and what not and no matter how offended or aggravated they are, the highest they would do is tell you that they will pray for you to eventually "see the light" and that God will be the one to forgive you.

I Know how many christian folks we've condescended here and how non violent they always are. For him to try to conflate the utter radicalization of moslems with the christians here is very ridiculous. It's foolishness in it's extreme.

50d33q:
This is someone I called terrorists apologist and he claimed I defame his character
He openly supported release of remorseful terrorists to the society I honestly don't expect much from him.
I knew he wasn't against the killing but the manner the killing went that's why he kept calling them irate mobs because he believed they took the law in their hands instead of taking her to Sharia court.
I also heard Sharia court is wait and get, judgement must be passed same day.
North is the problem here, it harbour educated terrorists like this guy here and they are the one controlling the non educated ones(almajiris) which are the majority

I must say, you really seem to be the only bright hope we have here.
You too are a moslem but you've been explicit in your condemnation of this killing and the motive behind this. You have voiced out how it's unreasonable to kill for Mohammed.

I want to know, how is your stance soo different from the rest of the vast majority of other moslems in the country. And do you think other moslems will view you as a good moslem or a fake moslem? I don't know if you understand my question?

Jodera:
Omo, that guy is wicked and it shows. Granted he's intelligent but mehn he's Wicked.

I just like you hate whataboutism in my life. Imagine someone killing someone and instead of facing the issue at hand, you'll hear something like "afterall so so person steal #5, what's the difference. Are both of them not crimes committed?"
Gosh!!!

Like damn!!! I will not lie to to you, that post infuriated the hell out of me because I expected much better from Jude. He's usually one that seems intelligible on a host of issues, so for him to choose this particular moment to blame the victim speaks of someone with a very black heart and devoid of empathy not to talk of fear of the future of this country.

Like let's review what has just unfolded before our eyes.
A girl rebukes her classmates from using the class group wrongly and makes a very irrelevant remark about the prophet. This innocent innocuous rebuke triggers an unwarranted fury that inexplicably leads to people killing her and jubilating over killing her.

The follow up to this is even worse than what has just occurred. The fact that prominent northern leadership cannot come out and boldly condemn the action and that a whole presidential candidate withdraws his condemnation shows just how perverse the entire mentality of the average citizen there is and then Jude who is suppose to see just how terrifying this is , decides this is the best time to conflate this with whatever agenda he has against christians. What kind of sheer stupidity is that??

Havertz10:
is there anything wrong with his stance?

I’m sure that there are certain crimes that someone would commit and you would accept that death is a just punishment

If a society of people choose to place their sacred religion that is the cornerstone of their reality in such category, who are we to criticize them?
The hubris of Christians is baffling, you want to dictate ethical morality to others under the guise of human rights meanwhile you guys are the biggest violators of human rights in history

You are very stupid for this!! You are extremely stupid for trivializing the death of an innocent girl.

Does this look like a time to engage in whataboutism?? "Ohh, what about christians who have done the same thing?" Shege there.

Is Nigeria an Islamic country?? We're talking about the senseless murder and barbarism of an innocent soul and here you are deflecting from the issue. Your fellow countrymen just lynched a girl and instead of focusing on the issue and joining in the discussion as to how to chart a way forward for our society, you'll rather play dumb and blame the victim.
Imagine blaming the victim here!!! TUFIA!
Sometimes I'll think you are smart and then you go type these things that expose the wickedness of your heart. Shege.

I guess amoto had to eventually own up to his fundamental beliefs. It's unfortunate that you guys are just finding out his propensity for being a terrorist apologetic.

Go through his profile and see the posts he has created. You get to see someone not much different from those who carry bombs into churches.

I've been trying to make him come clean about this because he was always evading the issue but it's nice he finally owned up to it.

He's unapologetic towards Islam's violent stance towards dissent. He unabashedly supports death for apostasy. That's death to those who wants to leave the religion. He supports honor killings. That's death to female family members who dishonor the religion. All these he has owned up to in his past posts. So don't be surprised you're just finding out.

My pain is that this guy appears to be more well read and researched than the average person, you will think he would be more enlightened, but for Muslims, it's as if the more educated you are, the higher the propensity for terrorism is. Such a weird cycle.

BikeMan:
We need way more than that. None of our attackers can confidently give us 15 goals in a season, we are cooked bruh.

Believe you me, some of our attackers are even overperforming. You would be shocked I said this but I want you to look at the numbers and you'll see my point. Liverpool have played 60 games this season and Salah has started 53 of those games, his minutes played this season is double or triple some of our attackers. Timo Werner has 17 goals and assist this season despite starting only 16 games this season. Lukaku has 15 goals this season despite starting only 15 premier league games this season.

Let's not forget that jorginho scoring 9 penalties has deprived our attackers padding their goal numbers. Imagine that maybe Lukaku was the designated penalty taker in our team, he'll be much close to 30g\a this season just like salah, Ronaldo and Kane them.

Look at this table below, I've highlighted our goalscorers and their total minutes played and Liverpool goalscorers and their total minutes played, you'll see how consistency in the team has boosted their numbers.
Mount has been our only consistent starter this season and that has reflected in his numbers, with 29g\a. Tuchel tried to please all our attackers and gave them little run-ins in the team. There was a time Hudson odoi started about 10 games in a row, he has 9G\A to show for it. Now he's nowhere to be seen because others are fit, the same thing with ziyech, just like Pulisic just starting to see shirt only few weeks ago and having 13G\A to show for it.

I will say it again, oversaturation of attackers has been a problem for us this season. Players not having enough time to adapt to the rhythm of the team and their teammates.

Again look at the numbers below and see what I'm talking about.

donstan18:
Bant aside, what’s good about Tuchel?

Is he tactical?
Is he reliable?
Can he handle stars?
Who was he before Chelsea?

You continue to prove how foolish you are.
Anyways, I understand where you're coming from, I was once 16 years old too, enjoy it while it lasts.

BikeMan:
You folks should take it easy, it's embarrassing to keep losing finals but you can't say it's not excepted with how average the team has been for years now. This should be a wake up call that this team needs quality investment, I hope the new owners are taking note. Enough of wasting money on single players, spread your money and build a team.

Luckily we have a good coach that only needs material. On to the next season, this one has been an emotionally draining one. KTBFFH.

Our squad doesn't even need an overhaul. Just a few patches, it's just very unfortunate that all our key defenders are running away. That's the main headache if not, a new creative goalscoring central midfielder would have been what we just needed.

If all was well, with chillwell, James, rudiger, Silva, chalobah, azpi we would have been set in that defense. Our central midfield needs sorting.
Do you know that all 3 of kovacic, jorginho and kante are actually defensive midfielders?? Kovacic was a DM for Madrid before casemiro came, kante is a DM, jorginho a DM. We need a natural cm to come in and quality defensive reinforcements.

Why all these noise sef??

This game was an evenly matched game. We always knew finals like this would be won by slim margins.

With both sides having almost equal amount of possession and chances. That's how any final is, and when you consider that this Liverpool are actually better than us in terms of developed squad and longer coaching, you see that Tuchel is doing a very fine job.

All those hating on mount should cease doing so immediately, before this season, mount, havertz and many of our attackers had very very shambolic numbers but this season, we have 5 players with more than 15g\a. Showing that our oversaturation of attackers have kinda worked against us, with very few players having enough game time to singularly accumulate those numbers. They've all improved. Their numbers reflect this. From ziyech to havertz to mount to even Werner with his limited time but I digress..

Tuchel and this boys have done us very proud this season, no other team would continue to deliver this much high quality performances after the kind of disaster that struck the entire upper management. We got to the UCL quarters, something we've struggled to do in the last 10 years. We got to both finals, something many clubs can only dream of getting to, and we're the third best team in the league. A position we've struggled to attain in several years.

Let's not forget that this is how kloop also began his reign at Liverpool and now they're a quadruple seeking team. Tuchel is the absolute best for us.

Our core group of young players can only get better. They have now been tested at the highest levels. These 22 and 23 year olds will only get better and better and become the best for us. Let's stop hating on this boys. They are all doing very well.

Ibime:
So is Pulisic and Chalobah per that graphic

Jorginho outperformed every single player on the pitch today bar Arnold the motm.
Jorginho was Chelsea's best player today and let's not forget how he cooly slotted in his last pen that gave us a fighting chance to win this cup.

Ibime:
33 passes completed for Jogginghoe

66 for Thiago

Much improved second half but still #not my playmaker

Still our best performer on the pitch.

Ihebu4chelsea:
To me.. I think atheists are the most stupid set of people on Earth... Despite their Qualifications and Achievements!!!

Surely you can see how nonsensical this opinion is.

The average atheist is well read and informed on a wide variety of issues to have formed an opinion that goes against the vast majority of their society.

Me and you are witnessing the deleterious effects of an over religious society. One where opponents are killed and celebrated. There is not much difference between the mentality and psyche of a Christian, moslem, Jew or Buddhist. All of them believing in their different versions of rubbish. Like a Christian believing the world was created in six days or that Jesus and Mary ascended into heaven, body and "soul". Or moslems believing Mohammed went up to heaven on a flying winged horse. Or a Buddhist believing that snakes, cow and elephants are representatives of their Gods on earth and that the world was created on the navel of a snake.

All beliefs, highly preposterous.

These are the people we're sharing this country with?
How many decades till that region evolves from these archaic barbarities.
These are not just illiterates, these are actually the "educated" ones among them. Now imagine how their agboros will be.

I weep.

raumdeuter:
By the way I like a lot of posts made by donstan18 even the ridiculous sounding ones

He's the dumbest poster here. As flaky as can be, so irrational and illogical. Don't fall for his crap.

GloriousGbola:
400+ years of history says otherwise

Spanish inquisition off the top of my tongue.
Salem witch trials
Precursors for colonization
And I laugh when I hear Christians try to emulate Jesus, who died a bachelor. How many Christian makes are celibate and hanging out with 12 dudes
I think we know how all that priest celibacy has been going.
Christianity has grown out of violence or maybe it is tempered by secularism.

I'm pointing out the basic differences between the figureheads of each religion and how it influences their followers. Surely you can agree that the fact Jesus was a pacifist has certainly helped in abating the radicalization of christians and the violence of Mohammed has aided in the radicalization of his followers.

Jesus' pacifism certainly helped in the deradicalization of christians. Christians were able to use their own hands to evolve and abandon violence as a means of conversion.

Why haven't Islam done that??
You look at all the christian majority countries and you will almost never hear of a militant christian today. From European countries like England, Russia, Italy, Portugal etc to south American christian majority countries like Argentina, Chile, to African christian majority countries like South Africa, Rwanda, Uganda etc.
Don't get me wrong, these places have all had their own issues but never one caused by religion or it's adherents.

Now look at countries that have been plagued by Islamic terrorism issue(s) in the last 20 years. Even in countries where they are a minority not to talk of their own hell holes of a country. From American bombings in north America, to France and England bombings in Europe, to Australian and new Zealand massacres to Indian religious wars with Buddhists to Boko Haram massacres in west Africa. Not to talk of Iran, Pakistan, Syria, Yemen etc that have been razed to dust by them. There is no part of the globe where moslems have been, where there hasn't been an issue of religious motivated violence.

Christians are farrr more peaceful that the proclaimed religion of peace

BlueRayDick:
U can’t be in ur house and decide what is blasphemy or not. It is the law court that can do that after listening to the argument of lawyers of all the parties in the case. I do not understand Hausa to have known exactly what the girl said or not; neither do I know the young ladies’ beef with those other guys before the unfortunate incident.

Like I said earlier , they should’ve handed her to law enforcement agents if they feel she has committed the crime of blasphemy.

But one thing is sure, the jungle justice they carried out by taking laws into their hands is what people have been doing down south setting ablaze suspected kidnappers, ritualists etc without having a recourse to the law enforcement agents.

We need to agree jungle justice as a nation as a whole , not telling northerners to refrain from such dastardly act and neglecting the ones being down by our brothers here

Again with the whataboutism, the jungle justice in Deborah's case is a side issue, an important issue nonetheless but a side issue. The main issue is the motivation for the killing.

Listen blueray, sometimes violence is LOGICAL, I didn't say justified, I said, LOGICAL. When we hear that a cultist was burnt to death by a rival cult group, we simply shrug our shoulders and move away because the death was logical, play stupid games, win dangerous prices.

Or we hear where an armed robber who has just killed his victims but engages in open fire combat with the police and catches a bullet, it's a violent death but logical.

Where's the logic in killing someone for telling her classmates to stop posting religious stuff on a class WhatsApp group?? Where's the goddamn logic??

Mind you she didn't actually insult Mohammed, she just made an off the cuff remark, "no be only prophet" how then do Sane people start making this an issue of just the jungle justice??

It's just like American republicans focusing on only the supreme court leak while abandoning the main premise of the issue.

Whataboutism is just a deflection tactic.

Amoto94, I saw your earlier response to my posts and I acknowledge your response but you didn't actually answer the question I asked. You can understand my curiosity on your stance seeing as many of your fellow moslems are actually in full support of these killings.
Please can you answer these?

donjazet:
Amoto94, please I need your attention here. Can you please confirm if this part of Hadith is indeed true?
Did the prophet Mohammed approve of a son killing his own own mother because of blasphemy of his name??

Do you think present day Moslems take inspiration from hadiths like these?? Please I come in peace, I bear no ill will.

GloriousGbola:
The problem is that all adherents cherry pick as required. There is a whole old testament which people refence when it is time for polygamy, violence, misogyny etc.

And for the new testament, the phrase I come not to bring peace but a sword was used to mobilise during the crusades.

As I pointed out earlier, I know that both religious books approved of violence but the fact is that most christians try to emulate Christ and moslems try to emulate Mohammed. Hence it's significant to point out the differences in moral standards of both.

Christians are less violent partly because Jesus Christ was never violent.

Moslems are more violent because their prophet espoused violence. He killed a lot of people during his lifetime in religious conquests.

BlueRayDick:
Now this is what I was saying .

This has to be the most foolish thing Reno has ever said..

How did we really get to this point where everyone has now defaulted to whataboutism

How are we missing the main point??
This was one of the most senseless killing I've ever seen in my life. It's not as if the girl actually insulted the prophet. Since when does one simple sentence qualify one to be burnt to crisps??

Why are we now bringing in ipob, UGM or even jungle justice for theft into this??
These have no bearing right now because I'm sure that if anyone posted a video of jungle justice for theft on this page, it will be unanimously condemned by all, no one believes citizens should have the right to kill another person, everyone here will say it's best left to the law to handle and will wish for a much better judicial system than we have now.

But just look at the reaction of the moslems to the killing, they are actually largely in support of it, to the extent that a presidential candidate has to actually withdraw his condemnation of the barbarism.

So please tell me why we're deviating from this issue to engage in senseless whataboutism?

The issue here is that we have fellow citizens who believe that it's okay to kill someone because she told off her fellow students from using the WhatsApp group as a religious ground.

Please lets stop falling for these diversions. When we see jungle justice for theft happening, we'll focus on that one and condemn it too but that's not what were talking about right now.
Whataboutism serves to deflect from the conversation on ground.

Ibime:
Oga Bible talk pass this one sef. Na him make I kuku no carry religion for head, let every man practice him belief in peace, nobody holy pass.

The one wey trip me for bible na Passover wey God say him go kill every first born child of Egypt to change Pharaoh mind to let him people go. I kuku ask myself say why God no just kill the Pharaoh and spare the little children wey no commit anything.
What of the one wey God tell Saul say make him kill everybody for one country, na him Saul spare some sheep and goats and lost favour to David. Na genocide we dey call those matter these days oh.

Ibime I think this is false equivalence.
The basic difference between a Christian and a Muslim is basically in how both their main figures lived thier lives. Yes, both religious books have verses that explicitly supports and approve violence and bloodshed, BUT when you compare Jesus Christ and Mohammed, you see a difference in how they lived their lives and espoused their followers to.

For example, Mohammed was a crusader, one who physically engaged in wars and bloodshed for the sake of Islam, his followers also did the same thing.

On the other hand, Jesus was a pacifist till death, even when his followers wanted to physically fight for him in Gethsemane when the Romans came to arrest him, he told them not to fight anybody. Jesus Christ NEVER killed anybody or approved the killing of anybody unlike Mohammed who fought wars in conquests and shed blood.

Also important to note that Jesus was a virgin till death, never married, never had sex, always preached about keeping the temple of Christ holy. Which is why you have some sects of Christianity directly following that doctrine.

On the other hand, Mohammed loved them bitches married 5 wives, fvcked a 9 year old kid and married her.

Jokes aside, I'm highlighting how the actions of these 2 spiritual figures inspire the actions of their followers. Jesus Christ was a pacifist till death, Mohammed was a warrior who killed people but sometimes advocated for peace. Make of that what you will.

I imagine that if I posted this on a certain Whatsapp group like Deborah did, you guys will be seeing my burnt corpse by now and will be foolishly debating whether I was suppose to say these in my own class group.

Amoto94, Incase you haven't seen the video of the brutality,here it is. I want to hear your opinion on this.

https://twitter.com/ukezi_greg/status/1524753028657598464?t=4opNike-2hV5fHRt0-C74A&s=19

https://twitter.com/PIniomor/status/1524805131040079873?t=WALXIJv1WagzTerLk3-awQ&s=19

Amoto94, please I need your attention here. Can you please confirm if this part of Hadith is indeed true?
Did the prophet Mohammed approve of a son killing his own own mother because of blasphemy of his name??

Do you think present day Moslems take inspiration from hadiths like these?? Please I come in peace, I bear no ill will.

Guys, registration for inec voting is nearing it's end. Just 1 month leftPlease make sure you have gone to the nearest polling station to register.
We need to participate in this election next year.

All of you should endeavor to go and register for your PVC.