Joanna Sedley: You people have been blind for so long fighting a battle that will continue to set Nigeria health sector back to stone age. As nurses and most importantly midwives, we diagnose and prescribes drugs and, test for minor ailments and attends to emergencies. MVA nko in some designated areas. In government establishments, there is division of labour and everybody follows their job description but in doctors absence you practice to the full extent of your licence and it is high time doctors focus on securing their jobs instead of fighting for financial whatever...cos things are seriously changing. It seems you spend all your time in a teaching hospital where doctors do all ......change ground a little and see that except for surgery ...doctors have nothing again. The CHEWS are not even part of JOHESU but they are doing the diagnoses ,prescribes and administers using standing orders but I foresee it changing once their first sets of BSC GRADUATES starts trooping out. Cos they will fought for the dropping of standing orders and proceed for ordinary treatment regimen. These people are trained with medical model ...just a slight change in the law and doctors will be hanging on to surgery alone. More change is coming to Nigeria health sector ....check for other countries with midlevels doing doctors work except surgery.
By the time doctors understands what is really going on under their noses , every other health worker in Nigeria must have change their scope of practice....cos fighting JOHESU is a merry go round.....

Seriously? Now I understand why the life expectancy in Nigeria reduced from 52yrs in 2010 to 47yrs in 2013 when Nurses and CHEWS are now making diagnosis, prescribing and managing patients.

PT.Awal:
What is the problem of this medical doctors Envy! Tey actually don't want any department in the health sector to progress. Why must they be the only set of people to become the CMDs in every general hospitals For crying out loud are they the only people in the health sector They cannot even reach a complete diagnosis of all conditions without Medical Lab and Radiographic examinations. They cannot completely treat every conditions without PHYSIOTHERAPISTS and NURSES. What are forming They want to be bossing every body in and around the hospital. Selfish / greedy people.

pls try and graduate from a medical skl first!!

miriamP:
u mean a senior auxillary nurse? Cos d last time i checked in the teaching hospitals the new house officers are left at d mercy of the nurses to teach them how to set IV lines, dosage of prescription drugs, and every other thing an amateur needs to know until after some months they claim to have mastered the procedures and then begin to bite the hands that fed them. Oh tell me why their senior colleagues will leave a young man who has never handled a patient to be on call alone if not that they are assured of the capable hands of nurses to direct them? They ask u about everything they wana do and u really wonder if they will pay u xtra for been a teacher to a fresh MBBS grad. But if u chose to ignore its the patients that will suffer a lot of things ranging from being punctured 20 times while d H/O s trying to get a vein to taking an overdosage the young man/woman just prescribed. I still remember the faces of all those that learnt from me for that first few months, but thank God the God fearing ones still appreciate that till now.

madam auxillary,dts a beautiful piece if lie

Incognito Quant:
Seriously? Now I understand why the life expectancy in Nigeria reduced from 52yrs in 2010 to 47yrs in 2013 when Nurses and CHEWS are now making diagnosis, prescribing and managing patients.

that? Or rather the ever increasing incompetence of doctors?

Personally, I believe that these unions are selfish. Doctors are going on strike because Lecturers got away with their negativity. Tomorrow Casket makers and dealers will go on strike as well.

drobadebayo:
madam auxillary,dts a beautiful piece if lie

Hahaha, u ever see an auxillary in a teaching hospital? No need for much talks, walk into the nearest teaching hospital and make inquiries of my facts, then u shall know the truth and the truth shall set u free

Jummy mine:
i dont know whether to laugh or cry at your fallacy. doctors pulled out of johesu?! stop lying and pulling the wool over the eyes of the unsuspecting public. the reason why all of them have to join together againstbthe doctors is that if they go on strike individually, nobody will feel it. shows indeed how important they are for the system!
i dare the pharmacists to go on strike alone, and see if the hospital will stop functioning. same for the physiotherapists and even the labs. in my hospital, all of them have gone on strike individually for months, and the hospital was still running!
thats why they have to team up and gang up against the doctors, asking to be paid as thety are paid and given equal status, as if their jobs are the same. its all part of the nigerian mentally, most people are not actually proud of their jobs, nor satisfied with it. i dare say that many of these lab guys, physios and nurses actually wanted to study medicine, but couldnt for one reason or the other.
i wonr why the beef now?
as i earlier said, privatize, and everybody will know their real level in a private setting.

some things i read on nairaland makes me wanna cry.nma was neva part of johesu my dear.

miriamP:
Hahaha, u ever see an auxillary in a teaching hospital? No need for much talks, walk into the nearest teaching hospital and make inquiries of my facts, then u shall know the truth and the truth shall set u free

bt really nurses are nurses,doctors are doctors nd pharms are pharms,dere z a reason dey all undergo diff training,in length nd in depth.u wanna be a judge,get a law degree,u wanna be a cmd,go to med skl nd try to finish.dts simple enuff

drobadebayo:
bt really nurses are nurses,doctors are doctors nd pharms are pharms,dere z a reason dey all undergo diff training,in length nd in depth.u wanna be a judge,get a law degree,u wanna be a cmd,go to med skl nd try to finish.dts simple enuff

of cos! whoever disputes that? Still doesnt mean nurses dont teach d baby doctors how to perform doctors procedures. And by medical school u mean ' medicine school'? Cos d school i attended is called college of health sciences which trains docs, nurses, radiographers, physiotherpists and lab scientists and am still waiting for the day NMA will wake up from their slumber and go on strike to fight for the name to be changed to 'medicine school'. And y d hype about CMD like its d bone of contention when its just a point out of many

hamedade2000: It's not a matter of monopoly. it's only in a confused country lyk ours dah nurses n lab technicians wld be fighting to become d CMD of hospitals. You myt not av travelled out buh am sure u'll av seen foreign medical movies. av u ever come across 1 in which such has happened. SMH for Nigeria sha....Everything z jez upside down.

And wot s wrong wit oda health profesions bin d CMD? U comparin White docs wit dez quacks U guys produce? Imagine! An intern Doc doznt knw catheterization s a sterile produce.... Half baked shits

edaolaropin: Wandering why doctors are superior? They spend 6-7 years being trained with a possibilty of resits and repeats? They rotate thru all aspects of medicine starting from the natural sciences to the basic medical sciences to laboratory medicine to pathology and pharmacology before going to clinical medicine(Trained to be jack of all trades and master of all). Back in those days, the jamb cut off for medicine usually ranks among the highest, I doubt if it has changed. For every academic year, a medical student is not even entitled to holidays translating to one extra semester per year meaning 2 extra academic years embedded in the same time duration of acquiring a first degree, yet he spends minimum of 6 academic years. I want to assume that anyone that wants to be a director should at least have a good knowlege of all the aspects of what he wants to manage. Once that condition is met then why not. If not the gateman and the cleaners would be aiming to be the CMD soon. Be warned!

. Wake up dear,if all the professions starts telling you what they went through in school then you shut up.Abroad nurses are directors of hospitals its an administrative post.The intelligent doctors don't come to rant on social media,its only dullards that do such.Empty vessels make the most noise.

why are nigerians so selfish? I read in one thread about how a couple used their wedding day as a fundraiser for cancer research. yet here we are putting peoples' lives at risk because of one selfish interest or the other. are leaders are no better. why can't we manage a situation before it degenerates to crisis?

miriamP:
that? Or rather the ever increasing incompetence of doctors?

Really? Are Nigerian Doctors now Incompetent? From my experience, I choose to disagree. You can say good medical care now is very expensive and maybe not affordable to everyone. The normal trend in Nigeria is to first visit the chemist before going to a Lab, then if no solution yet, before visiting a clinic. Now it is unfortunate if at the clinic, it is a nurse or chew that makes the diagnosis. That's double wahala.
The Nigerian situation is a complex one because 1. Everyone in the Health sector in Nigeria wants to be a doctor without the necessary training. 2. The level of ignorance is just too high. Have you heard of the triad (vicious cycle) of poverty, ignorance and disease? Do you know the ratio of Nigerians to a Doctor?

Incognito Quant:

Really? Are Nigerian Doctors now Incompetent? From my experience, I choose to disagree. You can say good medical care now is very expensive and maybe not affordable to everyone. The normal trend in Nigeria is to first visit the chemist before going to a Lab, then if no solution yet, before visiting a clinic. Now it is unfortunate if at the clinic, it is a nurse or chew that makes the diagnosis. That's double wahala.
The Nigerian situation is a complex one because 1. Everyone in the Health sector in Nigeria wants to be a doctor without the necessary training. 2. The level of ignorance is just too high. Have you heard of the triad (vicious cycle) of poverty, ignorance and disease? Do you know the ratio of Nigerians to a Doctor?

That ratio cant be imagined. Doctors are more dan patients now and many of dem re roaming d streets. I dont know abt u bt as far as teaching hospitals are concerned d patients come straight from spiritual homes where they ve spent months with no progress not from labs or clinics. Also many ppl come to hospitals not cos de wanna see docs bt cos dey know the hospitals are more equipped with diagnostic equipments and other facilities to treat their cases than chemists (the learned ones actually).
And its as a result of that incompetence of doctors to manage cases the rich ones travel abroad where they believ will be in good hands

miriamP:
That ratio cant be imagined. Doctors are more dan patients now and many of dem re roaming d streets. I dont know abt u bt as far as teaching hospitals are concerned d patients come straight from spiritual homes where they ve spent months with no progress not from labs or clinics. Also many ppl come to hospitals not cos de wanna see docs bt cos dey know the hospitals are more equipped with diagnostic equipments and other facilities to treat their cases than chemists (the learned ones actually).
And its as a result of that incompetence of doctors to manage cases the rich ones travel abroad where they believ will be in good hands

this is ridiculous

Incognito Quant:

Really? Are Nigerian Doctors now Incompetent? From my experience, I choose to disagree. You can say good medical care now is very expensive and maybe not affordable to everyone. The normal trend in Nigeria is to first visit the chemist before going to a Lab, then if no solution yet, before visiting a clinic. Now it is unfortunate if at the clinic, it is a nurse or chew that makes the diagnosis. That's double wahala.
The Nigerian situation is a complex one because 1. Everyone in the Health sector in Nigeria wants to be a doctor without the necessary training. 2. The level of ignorance is just too high. Have you heard of the triad (vicious cycle) of poverty, ignorance and disease? Do you know the ratio of Nigerians to a Doctor?

You don't know what is going on around the world most importantly the developed world, US has midlevels diagnosing and prescribing ,so also UK and many others. In east Africa they have clinicals officer ....all these have helped in increasing their access to medical care and improving their life expectancy. In Nigeria, the mere mention of it will cause an uproar like the post above....so funny.
Government not even the rival JOHESU will lift the carpet off the feet of doctors, as Ransome kuti did to other health workers so karma is around the corner....it is no longer about patients but individual interest.

Tobbie9: this is ridiculous

Yep it is, but only to the simple minded.

By Sola Ogundipe
Pharmacists, under the aegis of the
Pharmaceutical Society of Nigeria, PSN,
have urged medical doctors to respect the
rule of law on the contentious issue of
skipping of the Consolidated Health Salary
Structure, CONHESS 10.
In a statement titled, “Doctors’ Strike:
Matters Arising”, PSN President, Mr.
Olumide Akintayo, described as “a shame”
the insistence by NMA that pharmacists and
other health sector workers must not be
allowed to skip CONHESS 10.
“Doctors should know a thing or two about
the rule of law. The issue of skipping of
grades has been tested in the law courts
and there is a substantive order of the
Nigeria Industrial Court, NIC, that
pharmacists and other health workers be
legitimately allowed to skip CONHESS 10,”
he said.

Okay !

miriamP:
That ratio cant be imagined. Doctors are more dan patients now and many of dem re roaming d streets. I dont know abt u bt as far as teaching hospitals are concerned d patients come straight from spiritual homes where they ve spent months with no progress not from labs or clinics. Also many ppl come to hospitals not cos de wanna see docs bt cos dey know the hospitals are more equipped with diagnostic equipments and other facilities to treat their cases than chemists (the learned ones actually).
And its as a result of that incompetence of doctors to manage cases the rich ones travel abroad where they believ will be in good hands

I think you need to do more research and educate yourself and remove sentiments and emotions from your discuss. The current ration given this year was 6 thousand Nigerians to 1 doctor.
You are right about some cases coming from spiritual homes to the teaching hospitals and they do when they have given up hope. But to say that many go to hospitals not because the want to see the doctor is absolutely ridiculous.
Now on the issue of medical tourism, the rich ones do travel because the overall standard of care(which includes Nursing Care) may not met internationally acceptable standards especially in the public hospitals; but to attribute it to specifically doctors incompetence is stretching it too far. Do you know that there are 25thousands Nigerian doctors (who got their M.B.B.S in Nigeria) practicing the US?

Incognito Quant:

I think you need to do more research and educate yourself and remove sentiments and emotions from your discuss. The current ration given this year was 6 thousand Nigerians to 1 doctor.
You are right about some cases coming from spiritual homes to the teaching hospitals and they do when they have given up hope. But to say that many go to hospitals not because the want to see the doctor is absolutely ridiculous.
Now on the issue of medical tourism, the rich ones do travel because the overall standard of care(which includes Nursing Care) may not met internationally acceptable standards especially in the public hospitals; but to attribute it to specifically doctors incompetence is stretching it too far. Do you know that there are 45thousands Nigerian doctors (who got their M.B.B.S in Nigeria) practicing the US?

Incognito Quant:

I think you need to do more research and educate yourself and remove sentiments and emotions from your discuss. The current ration given this year was 6 thousand Nigerians to 1 doctor.
You are right about some cases coming from spiritual homes to the teaching hospitals and they do when they have given up hope. But to say that many go to hospitals not because the want to see the doctor is absolutely ridiculous.
Now on the issue of medical tourism, the rich ones do travel because the overall standard of care(which includes Nursing Care) may not met internationally acceptable standards especially in the public hospitals; but to attribute it to specifically doctors incompetence is stretching it too far. Do you know that there are 45thousands Nigerian doctors (who got their M.B.B.S in Nigeria) practicing the US?

U re are really being emotional and sentimental bringing up facts without source even if they are anywer near being true. Medical tourism? Wat a borrowed nice choice of words. Who do they meet first when dey come to hospitals? Doctors. Am sure dey normally change their minds and decide d abroad option on just d first visit. And mind u nig trained doctors cant even practise abroad without undergoing some form of training b4 dt and of cos which govt would endanger d lives of its citizens by licensing a nig mbbs grad without proper training?

miriamP:

U re are really being emotional and sentimental bringing up facts without source even if they are anywer near being true. Medical tourism? Wat a borrowed nice choice of words. Who do they meet first when dey come to hospitals? Doctors. Am sure dey normally change their minds and decide d abroad option on just d first visit. And mind u nig trained doctors cant even practise abroad without undergoing some form of training b4 dt and of cos which govt would endanger d lives of its citizens by licensing a nig mbbs grad without proper training?

If you are in doubt with my figures, google has made it very easy for you.
Every country has its law governing medical practice. The Americans do not recognize anybody trained outside (even the British trained) except they first pass their USMLE. Even Nigeria MDCN wont allow a foreign trained doctor to practice without doing the needful.
http://dailytrust.info/index.php/news/7216-jonathan-25-000-nigerian-doctors-practising-in-us

Incognito Quant:

If you are in doubt with my figures, google has made it very easy for you.
Every country has its law governing medical practice. The Americans do not recognize anybody trained outside (even the British trained) except they first pass their USMLE. Even Nigeria MDCN wont allow a foreign trained doctor to practice without doing the needful.

i am, unfortunately not interested in ur figures. like i said am talking of real life situation here. am sure u understand the points i ve made and dey are more valid than ever

miriamP:
i am, unfortunately not interested in ur figures. like i said am talking of real life situation here. am sure u understand the points i ve made and dey are more valid than ever

I do understand your points but they are skewed only in one direction. Nigerian Doctors are not your enemy and the ones who remained behind are seriously interested in the progress of the health industry. There are just some red lines that are not meant to be crossed.

miriamP: ...Doctors are more dan patients now...

You actually believe this nonsense you wrote here. Anyway, this will all soon end once the Federal Teaching Hospitals and Federal Medical Centres are privatized or turned over to a Public-Private Partnership. It is an inevitable progression. JOHESU or whatever can only delay it not stop it.

aletheia:
You actually believe this nonsense you wrote here. Anyway, this will all soon end once the Federal Teaching Hospitals and Federal Medical Centres are privatized or turned over to a Public-Private Partnership. It is an inevitable progression. JOHESU or whatever can only delay it not stop it.

am sorry but i dont argue with simpletons

aletheia:
You actually believe this nonsense you wrote here. Anyway, this will all soon end once the Federal Teaching Hospitals and Federal Medical Centres are privatized or turned over to a Public-Private Partnership. It is an inevitable progression. JOHESU or whatever can only delay it not stop it.

Privatize.......hospital.. surely not in patients interest but to prove points of who is most important.

Mrs Awesome: You don't know what is going on around the world most importantly the developed world, US has midlevels diagnosing and prescribing ,so also UK and many others. In east Africa they have clinicals officer ....all these have helped in increasing their access to medical care and improving their life expectancy. In Nigeria, the mere mention of it will cause an uproar like the post above....so funny.
Government not even the rival JOHESU will lift the carpet off the feet of doctors, as Ransome kuti did to other health workers so karma is around the corner....it is no longer about patients but individual interest.

I hate to burst your bubble but many of us know a lot more than you assume. I believe you are referring to Nurse practitioners right. Hope you know the limitations and the variations from one state to the other in US. Can you compare a Nurse practitioner to a Doctor in the US
Nigerians are not as ignorant as you think and it is the doctors here not taking full charge of the health sector? Have you heard of the role of the Surgeon General in the United States and many areas of British Commonwealth?
Now in the case of Clinical officers, Chews,nurses and those working in the primary health care centres where there is limited access to a doctor; who do you think write the medical models and protocols they follow??

Incognito Quant:

I hate to burst your bubble but many of us know a lot more than you assume. I believe you are referring to Nurse practitioners right. Hope you know the limitations and the variations from one state to the other in US. Can you compare a Nurse practitioner to a Doctor in the US
Nigerians are not as ignorant as you think and it is the doctors here not taking full charge of the health sector? Have you heard of the role of the Surgeon General in the United States and many areas of British Commonwealth?
Now in the case of Clinical officers, Chews,nurses and those working in the primary health care centres where there is limited access to a doctor; who do you think write the medical models and protocols they follow??

hmmm, again u failed to make a research. A nurse pract can be compared to a dr in d US. Very close comparison at that, as for d office of the surgeon general well i guess its one of those scenes from d pipe dreams of doctors

miriamP:
hmmm, again u failed to make a research. A nurse pract can be compared to a dr in d US. Very close comparison at that, as for d office of the surgeon general well i guess its one of those scenes from d pipe dreams of doctors

Na wa for you oh. It is you who has failed to do her research. Now let me teach you. Although NP (nurse practitioners) are allowed to see cases, most states in US requires a doctor to co-sign their prescriptions (you understand what that implies). Also they are expected to consult doctors and specialist when necessary. Clients are even advised to ask their doctors if their case can be handled by an NP.
NP are lower in the peaking order than Doctors. Its just the way the training and level of competence is.

As for Surgeon General, the way it is in the US, the thought of it in Nigeria probably brings shivers down your spine

miriamP:
am sorry but i dont argue with simpletons

Who's the simpleton? Me or you who believes that patients outnumber doctors in Nigeria. I don't blame you. It's the mediocre training you received in Nursing School. You will know the truth at the time of your delivery when you will be panting for a doctor to come perform that Caesarean section you will desperately need when the time comes.

Mrs Awesome: Privatize.......hospital.. surely not in patients interest but to prove points of who is most important.

Actually it is in the patient's best interests. Privatizing will impose efficiency and raise standards. It will also cut down on the strikes in the health sector. As an example, try visit Garki Hospital in Abuja and compare it's efficiency with Asokoro or Maitama District Hospitals. Garki is run according to PPP arrangement. There you will find doctors (even Consultants) and nurses at work 24 hours unlike in the public hospitals when absenteeism is high and you have rude and incompetent nurses.