₦airaland Forum

Malik,

15When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand 16Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains: 17Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house: 18Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes. 19And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days! 20But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day: 21For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

I think verse 21 gives the clue when the event in verse 15-20 inclusive will take place.

I would just like to ask if the Jews may have not experienced a great tribulation at that time? Do you think they were sitting in mountains of Judea, thinking to themselves that there was something worse to come, than the slaughter of over a million Jews and the rest taken as slaves, and their temple and such destroyed?

As you know scriptures have meaning for more than one time period. Isreal is an an example to us.

My basic question has been and still is: Is Jesus Christ the "idolatory" ("bdelugma" [Gk. βδέλυγμα]) that causes the "desolation" ("erēmōsis" [Gk. ερήμωσις]) spoken of by the prophet Daniel? Those who say 'yes' are calling Him the idolatory!

Why would the bible call any human being an "idolatry", when there is a perfectly good greek word for "idolater"?

G1496
εἰδωλολάτρης
eidōlolatrēs
i-do-lol-at'-race
From G1497 and the base of G3000; an image (servant or) worshipper (literally or figuratively): - idolater.

The word Abomination there does not refer to a person. Period. Not Jesus nor the antichrist. It is a hated event of desolation for the Jews. If it had of refered to a person, it would have been a different word.

Bobby,

Smile.

Malik,

Mat 24:15-16 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:

History records that a lot of Jews did just that, when the desolation came to Israel.

Malik,

Jesus is the speaking to the Jews:

Mat 23:38  Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.

Luk 13:35  Behold, your house is left unto you desolate: and verily I say unto you, Ye shall not see me, until the time come when ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.

It was because of their treatment of Jesus that the their house was left to them DESOLATE.

Malik,

Abomination just means = HATED
Desolation just means = EMPTY

Abomination of Desolation spoken of by Daniel, is when God kept the Jews out of Israel.

Kept Israel Empty
And of course they hated it.

That's all.

Yinkagirl,

The bible says that people would call on God in their day of trouble.

One should have sense enough to repent every once in a while, even if a little trouble had to be thrown your way to get you to do it.

I think. Smile.

Malik,

"Notice the bible does not teach that the Messiah was cut off in the 69th week as many Christians are told.

The 70th week has to be past because it was only after the 69th week that the Messiah cut off. "

It didn't say that the 70th week was past before the Messiah was cut off.

I just mean to show that what happenned to Jesus happenned in the 70th week.

Thus the 70th week has to be past because we know that what happenned to Jesus 2000 years ago just about.

Malik,

In plain language, the sentence construction argument doesn't work to prove that the he in verse 27 must be talking about the last person talked about in the previous verse.

Malik,

Here is another. According to the way you are reading Daniel, we must believe the "he" in verse 27 is talking about the Anti Christ mentioned in verse 26 and NOT to Christ mentioned in all 4 verses.

Watch this now:

This is about Jesus

Mar 7:34 And looking up to heaven, he sighed, and saith unto him, Ephphatha, that is, Be opened.

This is about the deaf and dumb guy

Mar 7:35 And straightway his ears were opened, and the string of his tongue was loosed, and he spake plain.

According to the way that you insist that we must read Daniel, then this NEXT he in 36 must be the deaf and dumb guy, just referred to in 35

Mar 7:36 And he charged them that they should tell no man: but the more he charged them, so much the more a great deal they published it;


But it is not, is it?

So the idea that the Daniel Verse 9:27 MUST refer back to the antiChrist in verse 26 because he is the last one talked about, does not pan out.

It's just not true. The verse refers to the Messiah.

Malik,

The he in verse 27 refers to Christ. Not to the antiChrist.

Let me show you the exact same identical contruction in another passage.

Jehoram being talked about

2Ch 21:5 Jehoram was thirty and two years old when he began to reign, and he reigned eight years in Jerusalem.

Jehoram being talked about

2Ch 21:6 And he walked in the way of the kings of Israel, like as did the house of Ahab: for he had the daughter of Ahab to wife: and he wrought that which was evil in the eyes of the LORD.

The Lord being talked about

2Ch 21:7 Howbeit the LORD would not destroy the house of David, because of the covenant that he had made with David, and as he promised to give a light to him and to his sons for ever.

Now this next one just says HIS, according to the way you have read Daniel, we must now believe that this HIS goes with the person talked about in the verse 7, that would mean this verse 8 was talking about the Lord

2Ch 21:8 In his days the Edomites revolted from under the dominion of Judah, and made themselves a king.


Which as you can clearly see, that it is refering to in Jehoram's day, not the Lord's day.

This is the first one, I am going to show it to you again in another one.

Malik,

Historically Christians have always said that Daniel 9:27 has always been said to be about Jesus Christ. It is only the recent rapture folks who have reinterpreted this to mean the 'antichrist'. Having this many and more christians who have been preaching that Dan. 9:27 was about Jesus for hundreds of years, doesn't make it any more true. I just want you to understand that you are in fact the one with the 'new' belief about who this is.

You do not have to go through each one but I just offer these so you can see how what are considered some of the biggest christian leaders and some of the oldest bible commentators have always said it is about Jesus.

I will deal with the construction of the verses in my next post.

John Calvin

Daniel 9:27

27. And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.


The angel now returns to Christ. We have explained why he made mention of the coming slaughter; first, to shew the faithful that they had no reason for remaining in the body of the nation in preference to being cut off from it; and next, to prevent the unbelievers from being satisfied with their obstinacy and their contempt of their inestimable blessings, by their rejecting the person of Christ. Thus this clause was interposed concerning the future devastation of the city and temple. The angel now continues his discourse concerning Christ by saying, he should confirm the treaty with many for one week. This clause answers to the former, in which Christ is called a Leader. Christ took upon him the character of a leader, or assumed the kingly office, when he promulgated the grace of God. This is the confirmation of the covenant of which the angel now speaks. As we have already stated, the legal expiation of other ritual ceremonies which God designed to confer on the fathers is contrasted with the blessings derived from Christ; and we now gather the same idea from the phrase, the confirmation of the covenant. We know how sure and stable was God's covenant under the law; he was from the beginning always truthful, and faithful, and consistent with himself. But as far as man was concerned, the covenant of the law was weak, as we learn from Jeremiah. (Jeremiah 31:31, 32.) I will enter into a new covenant with you, says he; not such as I made with your fathers, for they made it vain. We here observe the difference between the covenant which Christ sanctioned by his death and that of the Jewish law. Thus God's covenant is established with us, because we have been once reconciled by the death of Christ; and at the same time the effect of the Holy Spirit is added, because God inscribes the law upon our hearts; and thus his covenant is not engraven in stones, but in our hearts of flesh, according to the teaching of the Prophet Ezekiel. (Ezekiel 11:19.) Now, therefore, we understand why the angel says, Christ should confirm the covenant for one week, and why that week was placed last in order. In this week will he confirm the covenant with many. But I cannot finished this exposition just now.


Matthew Henry:

But others think, because it is said that in the midst of the weeks (that is, the last of the seventy weeks) he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, they end three years and a half after the death of Christ, when the Jews having rejected the gospel, the apostles turned to the Gentiles. But those who make them to end precisely at the death of Christ read it thus, "He shall make strong the testament to the many; the last seven, or the last week, yea, half that seven, or half that week (namely, the latter half, the three years and a half which Christ spent in his public ministry), shall bring to an end sacrifice and oblation." Others make these 490 years to end with the destruction of Jerusalem, about thirty-seven years after the death of Christ, because these seventy weeks are said to be determined upon the people of the Jews and the holy city; and much is said here concerning the destruction of the city and the sanctuary. [3.] Concerning the division of them into seven weeks, and sixty-two weeks, and one week; and the reason of this is as hard to account for as any thing else. In the first seven weeks, or forty-nine years, the temple and city were built; and in the last single week Christ preached his gospel, by which the Jewish economy was taken down, and the foundations were laid of the gospel city and temple, which were to be built upon the ruins of the former.

JFB:
(Robert Jamieson, A. R. Fausset and David Brown)


27. he shall confirm the covenant--Christ. The confirmation of the covenant is assigned to Him also elsewhere. Isa 42:6, "I will give thee for a covenant of the people" (that is, He in whom the covenant between Israel and God is personally expressed); compare Lu 22:20, "The new testament in My blood"; Mal 3:1, "the angel of the covenant"; Jer 31:31-34, describes the Messianic covenant in full. Contrast Da 11:30, 32, "forsake the covenant," "do wickedly against the covenant." The prophecy as to Messiah's confirming the covenant with many would comfort the faithful in Antiochus' times, who suffered partly from persecuting enemies, partly from false friends (Da 11:33-35). Hence arises the similarity of the language here and in Da 11:30, 32, referring to Antiochus, the type of Antichrist.
with many-- (Isa 53:11; Mt 20:28; 26:28; Ro 5:15, 19; Heb 9:28).
in . . . midst of . . . week--The seventy weeks extend to A.D. 33. Israel was not actually destroyed till A.D. 79, but it was so virtually, A.D. 33, about three or four years after Christ's death, during which the Gospel was preached exclusively to the Jews. When the Jews persecuted the Church and stoned Stephen (Ac 7:54-60), the respite of grace granted to them was at an end (Lu 13:7-9). Israel, having rejected Christ, was rejected by Christ, and henceforth is counted dead (compare Ge 2:17 with Ge 5:5; Ho 13:1, 2), its actual destruction by Titus being the consummation of the removal of the kingdom of God from Israel to the Gentiles (Mt 21:43), which is not to be restored until Christ's second coming, when Israel shall be at the head of humanity (Mt 23:39; Ac 1:6, 7; Ro 11:25-31; 15:1-32). The interval forms for the covenant-people a great parenthesis.


Barnes:

Dan 9:27 -
And he shall confirm the covenant - literally, “he shall make strong” - והגביר vehîgebîyr. The idea is that of giving strength, or stability; of making firm and sure. The Hebrew word here evidently refers to the “covenant” which God is said to establish with his people - so often referred to in the Scriptures as expressing the relation between Him and them, and hence used, in general, to denote the laws and institutions of the true religion - the laws which God has made for his church; his promises to be their protector, etc., and the institutions which grow out of that relation. The margin reads it, more in accordance with the Hebrew, “a,” meaning that he would confirm or establish “a covenant” with the many. According to this, it is not necessary to suppose that it was any existing covenant that it referred to, but that he would ratify what was understood by the word “covenant;” that is, that he would lead many to enter into a true and real covenant with God.

Coffman commentaries:

Now, the prophecy in Dan. 9:27, to the effect that Christ should make the covenant firm with many for one week is a clear reference to the public ministry of Jesus Christ. It is here called "a week," indicating a seven year period; but with this limitation! He the Messiah was cut off "in the midst of the week," that is after three and one half years, which corresponds exactly to the facts. The further references to the destruction of Jerusalem, "the flood," and "the war," etc. are prophecies of the great tribulations that should overwhelm Jerusalem at the times when her doom was executed by the armies of Vespasian and Titus in the year 70 A.D.

John Wesley:

Verse 27
He shall confirm - Christ confirmed the new covenant, 1. By the testimony of angels, of John baptist, of the wise men, of the saints then living, of Moses and Elias. 2. By his preaching. 3. By signs and wonders. 4. By his holy life. 5. By his resurrection and ascension. 6. By his death and blood shedding. Shall cause the sacrifice to cease - All the Jewish rites, and Levitical worship. By his death he abrogated, and put an end to this laborious service, for ever. And that determined - That spirit of slumber, which God has determined to pour on the desolate nation, 'till the time draws near, when all Israel shall be saved.


Geneva Bible:

9:27 And he a shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to b cease, c and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make [it] desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

(a) By the preaching of the Gospel he affirmed his promise, first to the Jews, and after to the Gentiles.
(b) Christ accomplished this by his death and resurrection.
(c) Meaning that Jerusalem and the sanctuary would be utterly destroyed because of their rebellion against God, and their idolatry: or as some read, that the plague will be so great, that they will all be astonished at them.

The Bible

Jacob's ladder

African thought

Many many fairy tales, whathaveyou, speak of God or the gods being able to travel back and forth to heaven on stairs, ropes, ladders whathaveyou.

A lot of scholars treat this like some weird belief of Africans. But I recognized it immeadiately from the bible.

This is just a post meant to be light hearted.
I like to find these things.

I will start and be adding stuff as I go along. List the Bible thought and then the African thought/proverb that matches it.

The bible

Eve & Food led to problems with God for mankind.

Traditional African thought

A Woman pounding yams hit God in the eye, He got mad and went far up in the sky away from mankind.

I have read many versions of this same story, all across the Continent. It's interesting to me in that, it is always a woman involved with some type of food that causes the split between mankind and God.

The same as the bible.

Do you know any other African traditional stories/proverbs/etc that match the bible?

Oops. I already offered on the other thread. Maybe not a judge but at least give an honest appraisal for 5 things, I listed in the other thread.

I been dranking
I been smoking
Flying down 285
but I'm focused

24's -- TI

I'd be willing to make worthwhile critique's of each rap before the judges vote or be a judge myself.

1. Flow
2. Originality
3. Clarity
4. Style
5. Wittiness

Something like that maybe?

It might be better to get a Nigerian. For instance in my little rap for Big Shishi, it faltered I thought because I did not know how many people knew that Camp Snoopy is a big amusement theme park in the Mall of America.

Somebody would have to reference if there are specific Nigerian references, I would not know.

Just something to think about.

Here is a free rap beats maker but it is probably limited because they got a free one and a pay one. I don't know.

http://www.flydownloads.com/download/audio/Beatcraft.exe

There you go telling me no again -- Keith Sweat

No.

The bible even requires a man who rapes a virgin to marry her afterward and pay her bride price.

God definitely likes to see people repent and do the right thing.

Charlene -- Anthony Hamilton

Adconline,

Could you clarify exactly what you mean by this: "voice of people is the voice of God"?

We use the bible to decipher what we have heard.

Most of the Ethics and Rules in this world tend to come from the bible, because of course the whiteman with the bible has dominated the world and went to every nook and cranny, leaving the bible.