₦airaland Forum

DURING the winter of 2004, the Christmas season in Italy was marked by a lively debate. Some educators and teachers supported the idea of reducing to a minimum or even completely eliminating any reference to religious Christmas traditions. They advocated this out of respect for the increasing number of schoolchildren who are neither Catholic nor Protestant. However, others in scholastic circles and elsewhere demanded that the traditions be respected and fully preserved.

Aside from this controversy, though, just what are the origins of many of the Christmas traditions? As the debate was reaching a climax, the Vatican newspaper L’Osservatore Romano made some interesting observations.


The sun god

Regarding the date when Christmas is celebrated, the Catholic newspaper said: “The real date of Jesus’ birth, from the historical viewpoint, lies concealed beneath a veil of uncertainty as regards Roman history, the imperial census of that time and research in the subsequent centuries. . . . The date of 25 December, as is well known, was chosen by the Church of Rome in the fourth century. This date in pagan Rome was dedicated to the Sun god . . . Although Christianity had already been affirmed in Rome by an Edict of Constantine, the myth of . . . the Sun god was still widespread, especially among soldiers. The above-mentioned festivities, centred on 25 December, were deeply rooted in popular tradition. This gave the Church of Rome the idea of impressing a Christian religious significance on the day by replacing the Sun god with the true Sun of Justice, Jesus Christ, choosing it as the day on which to celebrate his birth.”

What about the Christmas tree, which is now part of the Catholic tradition?

The article in the Catholic newspaper pointed out that back in ancient times, many evergreens, such as “holly, butcher’s broom, laurel and branches of pine or fir were considered to have magical or medicinal powers that would ward off illness.” It went on to say: “On Christmas Eve, 24 December, Adam and Eve would be commemorated with the highly popular episode of the Tree of the earthly Paradise . . . The tree ought to have been an apple tree, but since an apple tree would have been inappropriate in winter, a fir tree was set on the stage and some apples put on its branches or, to symbolize the future coming of Redemption, wafers prepared with crushed biscuits in special moulds that were symbols of the Eucharistic presence of Jesus, as well as sweets and gifts for children.” What about after that time?

Mentioning that the tradition of using a Christmas tree first started in Germany in the 16th century, L’Osservatore Romano noted: “Italy was one of the last countries to accept the Christmas tree, partly because of a rather widespread rumour that the use of Christmas trees was a Protestant practice and should thus be replaced by the crib [the Nativity scene].” Pope Paul VI “began the tradition of setting up [in St. Peter’s Square, Rome] a massive Christmas tree” near the Nativity scene.

Do you find it acceptable that a religious leader would give a seemingly Christian meaning to events and symbols whose roots go back to ancient paganism? As to the proper course, the Scriptures admonish true Christians: “What fellowship do righteousness and lawlessness have? Or what sharing does light have with darkness?”


—2 Corinthians 6:14-17.

14 Do not become unevenly yoked with unbelievers. For what fellowship do righteousness and lawlessness have? Or what sharing does light have with darkness? 15 Further, what harmony is there between Christ and Be´li·al? Or what portion does a faithful person have with an unbeliever? 16 And what agreement does God’s temple have with idols? For we are a temple of a living God; just as God said: “I shall reside among them and walk among [them], and I shall be their God, and they will be my people.” 17 “‘Therefore get out from among them, and separate yourselves,’ says Jehovah, ‘and quit touching the unclean thing’”; “‘and I will take YOU in.’” 18 “‘And I shall be a father to YOU, and YOU will be sons and daughters to me,’ says Jehovah the Almighty.”

I just got stopped by a Policeman:

Guess what he asked for: my particulars and I gave him my Proof of ownership, Insurance and my driver's license.

He checked and asked for Roadworthiness: I bluntly told him he has no right to ask for it. As usual he started to rake I just kept my cool and told him he has no right to ask me for that.

He said he would stop a private car that has to show me and he took my papers and left. I feigned anger @ the fact that he wants to waste my time.

I just got out of the car left my car on the road and went straight to him. The guy fear small and asked if I wanted to slap him.

That caught the attention of his oga and after he explained what happened to his oga the oga asked me for my roadworthiness. I just told him that he should take the car to the station I will tell the company lawyer to come and take it.

They just started to use style to pacify me and said the government introduced road worthiness about 3months ago blah blah blah.

I stood my ground and the policeman that has my papers was just looking like a mumu.

When we finished arguing the oga shook me and praised me standing up for my right.

Bottom line make sure you are confident when talking to any policeman. Don't abuse him just let him know you  know what he his talking about and you are ready to go to the station and if necessary to court. Use style check his number and call his name out. If he his wrong and he knows it he will jell.

Mind you I ain't talking about when police check your boot come find plenty money ooooo. That's a different ball game.

For those posters who talk about giving policeman money when he asks for your papers I'll just like to tell you that you are the problem a typical policeman has.

In my several interactions with policemen off duty they are aware of our mentality as a people and they capitalize on that. 75% of road users in Nigeria are not aware of what a policeman should ask for. When he asks for a paper he knows you will no have that is an avenue for him to extort you. Know what you are expected to have and you won't have to grease any palm or beg anyone.

They are out to generate revenue from unsuspecting road users, it is your choice if you fall victim. Don't say you don't know ooooo

Many religions teach that the wicked will go to a fiery hell and be tormented forever. Is this teaching logical and Scriptural? The human life span is limited to 70 or 80 years. Even if someone was guilty of extreme wickedness all his life, would everlasting torment be a just punishment? No. It would be grossly unjust to torment a man forever for the sins that he committed in a short lifetime.

Only God can reveal what happens after people die, and he has done so in his written Word, the Bible. This is what the Bible says: “As the [beast] dies, so the [man] dies; and they all have but one spirit . . . All are going to one place. They have all come to be from the dust, and they are all returning to the dust.” (Ecclesiastes 3:19, 20) There is no mention here of a fiery hell. Humans return to dust—to nonexistence—when they die.

In order to be tormented, a person has to be conscious. Are the dead conscious? Once again, the Bible gives the answer: “The living are conscious that they will die; but as for the dead, they are conscious of nothing at all, neither do they anymore have wages, because the remembrance of them has been forgotten.” (Ecclesiastes 9:5) It is impossible for the dead, who are “conscious of nothing at all,” to experience agony anywhere.

Have They Discovered Hell?

HAVE you noticed that the doctrine of hellfire seems to be on the wane lately? Perhaps it just can’t survive this skeptical age we’re living in. Or perhaps more and more people are realizing that the notion of tormenting human beings forever in fire is not compatible with the just and loving God portrayed in the Bible. Whatever the reason for the disbelief, some religious leaders are responding with measures that smack of desperation. Consider a case in point.

[b]In the United States, both a national “Christian” television network and an evangelical newsletter recently reported that scientists had discovered “hell” while drilling in Siberia! The magazine Biblical Archaeology Review wryly summarized one such account.[/b]Allegedly, a team of Finnish and Norwegian scientists were in Siberia drilling deep into the earth’s crust as an experiment. They were quite surprised when, several miles below them, the drill bit began to spin in empty space! They were even more surprised when they found that the temperature down there was over 2,000 degrees Fahrenheit [1,100° C.]! They were most surprised of all, though, when they lowered a microphone down the hole and subsequently heard thousands—perhaps millions—of human voices, all screaming in agony! So unnerved were the scientists, the story goes, that many abandoned the project. Some were sworn to secrecy, while others converted from atheism to “Christianity” because of this proof of hell.

Not surprisingly, those who printed and repeated this story claimed that it was well documented. Rich Buhler, host of a radio talk show, wrote in Christianity Today that he and his staff tried to follow up on such reports. Under investigation, one source evaporated in a tangled web of articles that quoted from letters that were quoting from equally unsubstantiated articles.
The other source was a letter from a Norwegian man who, upon inquiry, frankly admitted that his letter was a fake. He sent it simply because he felt sure it would be believed and publicized. No doubt he realized the sad truth about far too many religious organizations—they believe what they want to believe.

In the Hebrew Scriptures of the Bible the word “hell” is translated from the Hebrew word sheol. It occurs 65 times and in the Authorized King James version Bible is translated 31 times “hell,” 31 times “grave,” and 3 times “pit.” In the Greek Scriptures of that Bible version the word “hell” is translated from the Greek word Hades in all of its ten occurrences. Both sheol and hades mean the common grave of mankind, and never relate to pain or fiery torment or to anyone living several miles below the surface in Siberia!

The Bible book of Revelation was revealed to the apostle John on the island of Patmos in the year 96 C.E. It paints vivid pictures of major events to take place in the time of the end. Of those symbolic pictures that John saw in vision, one is of a gaudy, brash harlot, called “Babylon the Great, the mother of the harlots and of the disgusting things of the earth.” In what condition was she? “I saw that the woman was drunk with the blood of the holy ones and with the blood of the witnesses of Jesus.”—Revelation 17:5, 6.

Whom does this woman represent? We are not left to guess her identity. By a process of elimination, she can be unmasked. In that same vision, John hears an angel say: “Come, I will show you the judgment upon the great harlot who sits on many waters, with whom the kings of the earth committed fornication, whereas those who inhabit the earth were made drunk with the wine of her fornication.” If the kings, or rulers, of the earth fornicate with her, then it means that the harlot cannot represent the ruling political elements of the world.—Revelation 17:1, 2, 18.

The same account tells us that “the traveling merchants of the earth became rich due to the power of her shameless luxury.” Therefore Babylon the Great cannot represent the business, or “merchant,” elements of the world. Yet, the inspired text says: “The waters that you saw, where the harlot is sitting, mean peoples and crowds and nations and tongues.” What other principal element of this world system is left that fits the description of a symbolic harlot fornicating with the political rulers, trading with business interests, and sitting in glory over the peoples, crowds, nations, and tongues? It is false religion in all its different guises!—Revelation 17:15; 18:2, 3.

This identification of Babylon the Great is confirmed by an angel’s condemnation of her for her “spiritistic practice [by which] all the nations were misled.” (Revelation 18:23) All forms of spiritism are religious and demon-inspired. (Deuteronomy 18:10-12) Thus, Babylon the Great must symbolize a religious entity. Biblical evidence shows that she is Satan’s entire world empire of false religion, promoted by him in the minds of men in order to divert attention from the true God, Jehovah.—John 8:44-47; 2 Corinthians 11:13-15; Revelation 21:8; 22:15.

There are common threads going right through the confused tapestry of the world’s religions. Many religions have their roots in mythology. Nearly all are tied together by some form of belief in a supposed immortal human soul that survives death and goes to a hereafter or transmigrates to another creature. Many have the common denominator of belief in a dreadful place of torment and torture called hell. Others are connected by ancient pagan beliefs in triads, trinities, and mother goddesses. Therefore, it is only appropriate that they should all be grouped together under the one composite symbol of the harlot “Babylon the Great.”—Revelation 17:5.

infotainment

Hebrews Chapter 1


Long ago God spoke many times and in many ways to our ancestors through the prophets.

2 But now in these final days, he has spoken to us through his Son. God promised everything to the Son as an inheritance, and through the Son he made the universe and everything in it.

3 The Son reflects God's own glory, and everything about him represents God exactly. He sustains the universe by the mighty power of his command. After he died to cleanse us from the stain of sin, he sat down in the place of honor at the right hand of the majestic God of heaven.

4 This shows that God's Son is far greater than the angels, just as the name God gave him is far greater than their names.

5 For God never said to any angel what he said to Jesus: "You are my Son. Today I have become your Father.1" And again God said, "I will be his Father, and he will be my Son.2"

6 And then, when he presented his honored3 Son to the world, God said, "Let all the angels of God worship him."4

7 God calls his angels "messengers swift as the wind, and servants made of flaming fire."5

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You are quite right: I need to go back to the grammar school but before I do mind teaching the difference between Mighty God and Almighty God.

Before yo do though may I point out the error of your qoutation saying Jesus is the Alpha and Omega. Am sure you won't mind reading that scripture from the first verse in your bible.

Revelation 1:1



A revelation by Jesus Christ, which God gave him, to show his slaves the things that must shortly take place. And he sent forth his angel and presented [it] in signs through him to his slave John, 2 who bore witness to the word God gave and to the witness Jesus Christ gave, even to all the things he saw. 3 Happy is he who reads aloud and those who hear the words of this prophecy, and who observe the things written in it; for the appointed time is near.

4 John to the seven congregations that are in the [district of] Asia:

May YOU have undeserved kindness and peace from “The One who is and who was and who is coming,” and from the seven spirits that are before his throne, 5 and from Jesus Christ, “the Faithful Witness,” “The firstborn from the dead,” and “The Ruler of the kings of the earth.”

To him that loves us and that loosed us from our sins by means of his own blood— 6 and he made us to be a kingdom, priests to his God and Father—yes, to him be the glory and the might forever. Amen.

7 Look! He is coming with the clouds, and every eye will see him, and those who pierced him; and all the tribes of the earth will beat themselves in grief because of him. Yes, Amen.

8 “I am the Al′pha and the O‧me′ga,” says Jehovah God, “the One who is and who was and who is coming, the Almighty.”


Revelation 1-5:1 (New American Standard Bible)

Revelation 1
The Revelation of Jesus Christ
1The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which (A)God gave Him to (B)show to His bond-servants, (C)the things which must soon take place; and He sent and communicated it (D)by His angel to His bond-servant (E)John,

2[b]who testified to (F)the word of God and to (G)the testimony of Jesus Christ[/b], even to all that he saw.

3(H)Blessed is he who reads and those who hear the words of the prophecy, and heed the things which are written in it; (I)for the time is near.
Message to the Seven Churches
4(J)John to (K)the seven churches that are in (L)Asia: (M)Grace to you and peace, from (N)Him who is and who was and who is to come, and from (O)the seven Spirits who are before His throne,

5[b]and from Jesus Christ[/b], (P)the faithful witness, the (Q)firstborn of the dead, and the (R)ruler of the kings of the earth To Him who (S)loves us and released us from our sins by His blood--

6and He has made us to be a (T)kingdom, (U)priests to (V)His God and Father--(W)to Him be the glory and the dominion forever and ever. Amen.

7(X)BEHOLD, HE IS COMING WITH THE CLOUDS, and (Y)every eye will see Him, even those who pierced Him; and all the tribes of the earth will (Z)mourn over Him. So it is to be. Amen.

8"I am (AA)the Alpha and the Omega," says the (AB)Lord God, "(AC)who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty."


Revelation 1-5:1 (New King James Version)

Revelation 1
Introduction and Benediction
1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him to show His servants—things which must shortly take place. And He sent and signified it by His angel to His servant John, 2 who bore witness to the word of God, and to the testimony of Jesus Christ, to all things that he saw. 3 Blessed is he who reads and those who hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written in it; for the time is near.
Greeting the Seven Churches


4 John, to the seven churches which are in Asia:

Grace to you and peace from Him who is and who was and who is to come, and from the seven Spirits who are before His throne, 5 and from Jesus Christ, [/b]the faithful witness, the firstborn from the dead, and the ruler over the kings of the earth.
To Him who loved us and washed[a] us from our sins in His own blood, 6 and has made us kings[b] and priests[b] to His God and Father, [/b]to Him be glory and dominion forever and ever. Amen.
7 Behold, He is coming with clouds, and every eye will see Him, even they who pierced Him. And all the tribes of the earth will mourn because of Him. Even so, Amen.
8 [b]“I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End,”[c] says the Lord,[d] “who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty.”





Notice that Jehovah has been introduced earlier in verse 4 as Grace to you and peace from Him who is and who was and who is to come. The word AND in that verse shows the position of Jesus in that vision.



Now let us see Verses 9-15 from the different translations

New World Translation

9 I John, YOUR brother and a sharer with YOU in the tribulation and kingdom and endurance in company with Jesus, came to be in the isle that is called Pat′mos for speaking about God and bearing witness to Jesus. 10 By inspiration I came to be in the Lord’s day, and I heard behind me a strong voice like that of a trumpet, 11[b] saying: “What you see write in a scroll and send it to the seven congregations, in Eph′e‧sus and in Smyr′na and in Per′ga‧mum and in Thy‧a‧ti′ra and in Sar′dis and in Philadelphia and in La‧o‧di‧ce′a.”
[/b]
(New King James Version)

Vision of the Son of Man

9 I, John, both[e] your brother and companion in the tribulation and kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was on the island that is called Patmos for the word of God and for the testimony of Jesus Christ. 10 I was in the Spirit on the Lord’s Day, and I heard behind me a loud voice, as of a trumpet, 11 saying, “I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last,”[f] and, “What you see, write in a book and send it to the seven churches which are in Asia:[g] to Ephesus, to Smyrna, to Pergamos, to Thyatira, to Sardis, to Philadelphia, and to Laodicea.”








(New International Version)
9I, John, your brother and companion in the suffering and kingdom and patient endurance that are ours in Jesus, was on the island of Patmos because of the word of God and the testimony of Jesus. 10On the Lord's Day I was in the Spirit, and I heard behind me a loud voice like a trumpet, 11[b]which said: "Write on a scroll what you see and send it to the seven churches: to Ephesus, Smyrna, Pergamum, Thyatira, Sardis, Philadelphia and Laodicea."
[/b]

(Today's New International Version)
John's Vision of Christ
9 I, John, your brother and companion in the suffering and kingdom and patient endurance that are ours in Jesus, was on the island of Patmos because of the word of God and the testimony of Jesus. 10 On the Lord's Day I was in the Spirit, and I heard behind me a loud voice like a trumpet, 11 which said: "Write on a scroll what you see and send it to the seven churches: to Ephesus, Smyrna, Pergamum, Thyatira, Sardis, Philadelphia and Laodicea."

(New American Standard Bible)
The Patmos Vision
9(AD)I, John, your (AE)brother and (AF)fellow partaker in the tribulation and (AG)kingdom and (AH)perseverance which are in Jesus, was on the island called Patmos (AI)because of the word of God and the testimony of Jesus.

10I was [a](AJ)in the Spirit on (AK)the Lord's day, and I heard behind me a loud voice (AL)like the sound of a trumpet,

11saying, "(AM)Write in a book what you see, and send it to the (AN)seven churches: to (AO)Ephesus and to (AP)Smyrna and to (AQ)Pergamum and to (AR)Thyatira and to (AS)Sardis and to (AT)Philadelphia and to (AU)Laodicea."

Vision of the Son of Man
9 I, John, am your brother and your partner in suffering and in God’s Kingdom and in the patient endurance to which Jesus calls us. I was exiled to the island of Patmos for preaching the word of God and for my testimony about Jesus. 10 It was the Lord’s Day, and I was worshiping in the Spirit.[f] Suddenly, I heard behind me a loud voice like a trumpet blast. 11[b] It said, “Write in a book[g] everything you see, and send it to the seven churches in the cities of Ephesus, Smyrna, Pergamum, Thyatira, Sardis, Philadelphia, and Laodicea.”[/b]

(English Standard Version)
Vision of the Son of Man
9I, John, your brother and(Z) partner in(AA) the tribulation and(AB) the kingdom and(AC) the patient endurance that are in Jesus, was on the island called Patmos(AD) on account of the word of God and the testimony of Jesus. 10(AE) I was in the Spirit(AF) on the Lord’s day, and I heard behind me a loud voice(AG) like a trumpet 11saying, (AH) "Write what you see in a book and send it to the seven churches, to Ephesus and to Smyrna and to Pergamum and to Thyatira and to Sardis and to Philadelphia and to Laodicea."

(Contemporary English Version)
A Vision of the Risen Lord
9I am John, a follower together with all of you. We suffer because Jesus is our king, but he gives us the strength to endure. I was sent to Patmos Island, [d] because I had preached God's message and had told about Jesus. 10On the Lord's day the Spirit took control of me, and behind me I heard a loud voice that sounded like a trumpet. 11[b]The voice said, "Write in a book what you see. Then send it to the seven churches[/b] in Ephesus, Smyrna, Pergamum, Thyatira, Sardis, Philadelphia, and Laodicea." [e] 12When I turned to see who was speaking to me, I saw seven gold lampstands. 13



Of all the translations of the bible here it is only the KJV that included the ALPHA AND OMEGA a way to justify the equality of Jehovah and Jesus. While they are no doubt ONE in thoght and ACtion there is everwhelming indication from the entirety of the bible that JESUS respects the authority of his Father. I remember you saying somewhere that he had a choice to disobey but he humble himself. Cool that is what all of us are doing. We have a choice to serve God or NOT but we humble ourselves in front of him through our mediator Jesus.


I have qouted from other translations of the bible apart from the NWT. There is a pattern and the pattern simply points to the fact that the vision in the book of Revelation does not belong to Jesus rather GOD Almighty(Jehovah) delivered through his son.

You were quick to say Jesus is the alpha and Omega but did you notice that at the end of[b] verse 7 there w[/b]as more or less a pause and a Quotation to show that what is in verse 8 is NOT a continuation of what is in verse 7. This is easily noticeable in all the translations the simple reason is that Jehovah is being quoted here and not Jesus. The conclusion of that verse is evident by the AMEN

Imagine you are the Secretary of a company and you are writing on behalf of your MD to a customer or client maybe you even have to sign on his behalf, does that make you the same as the MD. No doubt you're only a representative. The representative of the President of a country is treated as the President.

Bobbyaf:
What does having ascended from heaven have to do with He being God? Its either He is God or He is not. Your New World Translation says He is a god. So according to you there are two gods. Let us take for granted that the Father is the "only true God" where does that leave Jesus in His pre-existent form, before he became human? Does it make Him an inferior god? And this is where your problem lies. The prophet Isaiah said that the Lord will not share His glory with another - read "I am the LORD: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, " Isaiah 42:8

Now let us read Revelation 5:11,12  "And I beheld, and I heard the voice of many angels round about the throne and the beasts and the elders: and the number of them was ten thousand times ten thousand, and thousands of thousands; Saying with a loud voice, Worthy is the Lamb that was slain to receive power, and riches, and wisdom, and strength, and honour, and glory, and blessing."

Read in John 17:5 as Jesus prays in the garden using the following words, "5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was."

Note the words in bold. In other words while Jesus was praying in the garden His mind reflected on his pre-existence, and the glory He shared with His Father because they both shared the same attributes. Paul says Jesus is the express image of His Father. Paul also in the letter to the Hebrews wrote as follows, [b]Heb. 1:6 "And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him."[/b]

A creature being worshiped? God breaking His own rule? So even when Jesus was on earth as a human the angels worshiped Him. I could go on with more scriptures, but that will suffice it for now.

Prove that true with scriptural passages, and I will rest my case. 

Thats only an opinion.


Beginning of Creation, Ndipe?


So how do you explain John 1 that explicitly says that " all things wee made by Him" the Word? What would Paul have gained by introducing the point of Jesus having been created by His Father? Anyone who reads and understands that chapter in Colossians will readily see that Paul was addressing Jesus's pre-eminence among all creation. Let me explain:

Paul ties in the word first-born in the mix. Was Jesus born first among creation? When does the word "born" becomes created? You cannot associate Jesus being first-born among all creation with Jesus being created among all creation. Paul isn't stressing the creation of Jesus, but rather that He is first-born among all creation. That point needs to rest in your cranium.

Secondly why does Paul refer to Jesus as ", the firstborn from the dead, "? Notice Paul uses the very same expression about the resurrection of Jesus. So what does the expression "first-born actually means? It means the pre-emminent one. It means the one who carries the most importance.

Now Jesus in both cases was neither the first to be born, or the first to be resurrected literally, but His birth, and resurrection take priority. They would be considered the most important events among the scheme of things. That is why at both occasions angels and men worshiped.

This expression first-born was taken out of the OT. Every first-born male had the birth of right. It was thought then that any first-born male child could have become the Messiah. That was the hope. Hence the importance of the phrase as used by Paul to make a point about Jesus' being seen as the priority. All focus should be on the Lord Jesus Christ in the context in which Paul addressed the Christians at Colosse.

It is believed that Paul wrote these letters from prison to defend Christ against the heretic teachings that started to infiltrate the brethren. part of that defense was to highlight the pre-emminence of Jesus Christ.

So in essence none of the apostles had any reason for teaching that Jesus was a creature, much less one that would cast a spell on God to give Him so much privilege.

Fantastic post i must say,
Everytime I read your post i really get confused. I can't point out what you really want to say.

Are you saying that Jesus is the Almighty God or he his equal to God or What?

Just like you wrote earlier you just can't quote a portion of the bible to support your views while you leave out other portions. the bible is a whole book with many parts collaborating the other, many parts can't be understood until the global theme of the bible is considered.

I sincerely do not intend to change your views on this forum, I dare not. however I will try to point out a couple of things.

One read the book of Hebrews from Chapter 1. Here are a couple of other bible translations available.


To the Hebrews

1 God, who long ago spoke on many occasions and in many ways to our forefathers by means of the prophets, 2 has at the end of these days spoken to us by means of a Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom he made the systems of things. [/b]3 He is the reflection of [his] glory and the exact representation of his very being, and he sustains all things by the word of his power; [b]and after he had made a purification for our sins he sat down on the right hand of the Majesty in lofty places. 4 So he has become better than the angels, to the extent that he has inherited a name more excellent than theirs.

5 For example, to w[b]hich one of the angels did he ever say: “You are my son; I, today, I have become your father”? [/b]And again: “I myself shall become his father, and he himself will become my son”? 6 But when he again brings his Firstborn into the inhabited earth, he says: “And let all God’s angels do obeisance to him.”

7 Also, with reference to the angels he says: “And he makes his angels spirits, and his public servants a flame of fire.” 8 But with reference to the Son: “God is your throne forever and ever, and [the] scepter of your kingdom is the scepter of uprightness. 9 You loved righteousness, and you hated lawlessness. That is why God, your God, anointed you with [the] oil of exultation more than your partners.” 10 And: “You at [the] beginning, O Lord, laid the foundations of the earth itself, and the heavens are [the] works of your hands. 11 They themselves will perish, but you yourself are to remain continually; and just like an outer garment they will all grow old, 12 and you will wrap them up just as a cloak, as an outer garment; and they will be changed, but you are the same, and your years will never run out.”

13 But with reference to which one of the angels has he ever said: “Sit at my right hand, until I place your enemies as a stool for your feet”? 14 Are they not all spirits for public service, sent forth to minister for those who are going to inherit salvation?

2 That is why it is necessary for us to pay more than the usual attention to the things heard by us, that we may never drift away. 2 For i[b]f the word spoken through angels proved to be firm, and every transgression and disobedient act received a retribution in harmony with justice; 3 how shall we escape if we have neglected a salvation of such greatness in that it began to be spoken through [our] Lord and was verified for us by those who heard him,[/b] 4 while God joined in bearing witness with signs as well as portents and various powerful works and with distributions of holy spirit according to his will?

5 For it is not to angels that he has subjected the inhabited earth to come, about which we are speaking. 6 But a certain witness has given proof somewhere, saying: “What is man that you keep him in mind, or [the] son of man that you take care of him? 7 You made him a little lower than angels; with glory and honor you crowned him, and appointed him over the works of your hands. 8 All things you subjected under his feet.” For in that he subjected all things to him [God] left nothing that is not subject to him. Now, though, we do not yet see all things in subjection to him; 9 but we behold Jesus, who has been made a little lower than angels, crowned with glory and honor for having suffered death, that he by God’s undeserved kindness might taste death for every [man].

10 For it was fitting for the one for whose sake all things are and through whom all things are, in bringing many sons to glory, to make the Chief Agent of their salvation perfect through sufferings. 11 For both he who is sanctifying and those who are being sanctified all [stem] from one, and for this cause he is not ashamed to call them “brothers,” 12 as he says: “I will declare your name to my brothers; in the middle of [the] congregation I will praise you with song.” 13 And again: “I will have my trust in him.” And again: “Look! I and the young children, whom Jehovah gave me.”

14 Therefore, since the “young children” are sharers of blood and flesh, he also similarly partook of the same things, that through his death he might bring to nothing the one having the means to cause death, that is, the Devil; 15 and [that] he might emancipate all those who for fear of death were subject to slavery all through their lives. 16 For he is really not assisting angels at all, but he is assisting Abraham’s seed. 17 Consequently he was obliged to become like his “brothers” in all respects, that he might become a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, in order to offer propitiatory sacrifice for the sins of the people. 18 For in that he himself has suffered when being put to the test, he is able to come to the aid of those who are being put to the test.





The Letter to the Hebrews: a commentary & meditation

"In many and various ways God spoke, but in these last days he has spoken to us by a Son"
Scripture: Hebrews 1:1 - 2:4

    1:1 In many and various ways God spoke of old to our fathers by the prophets; 2 but in these last days he has spoken to us by a Son, whom he appointed the heir of all things, through whom also he created the world. 3 He reflects the glory of God and bears the very stamp of his nature, upholding the universe by his word of power. When he had made purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high, 4 having become as much superior to angels as the name he has obtained is more excellent than theirs.

    5 For to what angel did God ever say, "Thou art my Son, today I have begotten thee"? Or again, "I will be to him a father, and he shall be to me a son"? 6 And again, when he brings the first-born into the world, he says, "Let all God's angels worship him." 7 Of the angels he says, "Who makes his angels winds, and his servants flames of fire."

    8 But of the Son he says, "Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever, the righteous scepter is the scepter of thy kingdom. 9 Thou hast loved righteousness and hated lawlessness; therefore God, thy God, has anointed thee with the oil of gladness beyond thy comrades."

    10 And, "Thou, Lord, didst found the earth in the beginning, and the heavens are the work of thy hands; 11 they will perish, but thou remainest; they will all grow old like a garment, 12 like a mantle thou wilt roll them up, and they will be changed. But thou art the same, and thy years will never end."

    13 But to what angel has he ever said, "Sit at my right hand, till I make thy enemies a stool for thy feet"? 14 Are they not all ministering spirits sent forth to serve, for the sake of those who are to obtain salvation?

    2:1 Therefore we must pay the closer attention to what we have heard, lest we drift away from it. 2 For if the message declared by angels was valid and every transgression or disobedience received a just retribution, 3 how shall we escape if we neglect such a great salvation? It was declared at first by the Lord, and it was attested to us by those who heard him, 4 while God also bore witness by signs and wonders and various miracles and by gifts of the Holy Spirit distributed according to his own will.


Hebrews, chapter 1

   
Compare with Revised Standard Version: Hebr.01


1: God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
2: Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
3: Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;
4: Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.
5: For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?
6: And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.
7: And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire.
8: But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O.



Do Angels Worship Jesus?

  CERTAIN translations of Hebrews 1:6 say: “Let all the angels of God worship him [Jesus].” (King James Version; The Jerusalem Bible) The apostle Paul evidently quoted the Septuagint, which says at Psalm 97:7: “Worship Him [God] all ye His angels.”—C. Thomson.

  The Greek word pro‧sky‧ne′o, rendered “worship” at Hebrews 1:6, is used at Psalm 97:7 in the Septuagint for a Hebrew term, sha‧chah′, meaning “to bow down.” This can be an acceptable act of respect for humans. (Genesis 23:7; 1 Samuel 24:8; 2 Kings 2:15) Or it can relate to worship of the true God or that wrongly directed to false gods.—Exodus 23:24; 24:1; 34:14; Deuteronomy 8:19.

  Usually pro‧sky‧ne′o given to Jesus corresponds with obeisance to kings and others. 

Compare Matthew 2:2 and 8
After Jesus had been born in Beth′le‧hem of Ju‧de′a in the days of Herod the king, look! astrologers from eastern parts came to Jerusalem, 2 saying: “Where is the one born king of the Jews? For we saw his star [when we were] in the east, and we have come to do him obeisance.”

8 and, when sending them to Beth′le‧hem, he said: “Go make a careful search for the young child, and when YOU have found it report back to me, that I too may go and do it obeisance.

(compare again  8:2; 9:18; 15:25; 20:20 with 1 Samuel 25:23, 24; 2 Samuel 14:4-7; 1 Kings 1:16; 2 Kings 4:36, 37.) Often it is clear that obeisance is rendered to Jesus not as God but as “God’s Son” or the Messianic “Son of man.”—Matthew 14:32, 33; Luke 24:50-52; John 9:35, 38.

  Hebrews 1:6 relates to Jesus’ position under God. (Philippians 2:9-11;  9 For this very reason also God exalted him to a superior position and kindly gave him the name that is above every [other] name, 10 so that in the name of Jesus every knee should bend of those in heaven and those on earth and those under the ground, 11 and every tongue should openly acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God the Father.)

Here some versions render pro‧sky‧ne′o “pay . . . homage” (The New English Bible), “do obeisance to” (New World Translation), or “bow before” (An American Translation). If one prefers the rendering “worship,” such worship is relative, for Jesus told Satan: “It is Jehovah your God you must worship [form of pro‧sky‧ne′o], and it is to him alone you must render sacred service.”—Matthew 4:8-10.

Though Psalm 97:7, which speaks about worshiping God, was applied to Christ at Hebrews 1:6, Paul had shown that the resurrected Jesus is “the reflection of [God’s] glory and the exact representation of his very being.” (Hebrews 1:1-3) So any “worship” the angels give God’s Son is relative and is directed through him to Jehovah.



In all sincerety Jesus has been given a position that no other person can attain, he has become KING of God's Kingdom that though doesn't make him equal with God.

WHEN the apostle Paul healed a lame man in Lystra, the people shouted: “The gods have become like humans and have come down to us!” Paul they called Hermes, and his companion Barnabas, Zeus. (Acts 14:8-14) In Ephesus the silversmith Demetrius warned that if Paul was allowed to continue to preach, ‘the temple of the great goddess Artemis would be esteemed as nothing.’—Acts 19:24-28.

People in the first century—like many today—worshiped “those who are called ‘gods,’ whether in heaven or on earth.” Paul, in fact, said: “There are many ‘gods’ and many ‘lords’.” However, he also explained: “There is actually to us one God the Father,” and “there is one Lord, Jesus Christ.”—1 Corinthians 8:5, 6.


Note the AND that scripture did not say there is one God the father , Jesus.

Was Jesus Also Called God?

Although Jesus never claimed to be God, as Jehovah’s appointed ruler he is identified in[b] Isaiah’s prophecy by the terms “Mighty God” and “Prince of Peace.” [/b]Isaiah’s prophecy adds: “To the abundance of the princely rule and to peace there will be no end.” (Isaiah 9:6, 7) So, as the “Prince”—the son of the Great King, Jehovah—Jesus will serve as Ruler of the heavenly government of “God Almighty.”—Exodus 6:3.

Yet, a person may ask, ‘In what sense is Jesus a “Mighty God,” and didn’t the apostle John say that Jesus is himself God?’ In the King James version of the Bible, John 1:1 reads: “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.” Some argue that this means that “the Word,” who was born on earth as the baby Jesus, is Almighty God himself. Is this true?

If this verse were interpreted to mean[b] Jesus was himself God Almighty, it would contradict the preceding statement, “the Word was with God.” Someone who is “with” another person cannot be the same as that other person. [/b]Many Bible translations thus draw a distinction, making clear that the Word was not God Almighty. For example, a sampling of Bible translations say the following: “The Word was a God,” “a god was the Word,” and “the Word was divine.”

Bible verses that in the Greek language have a construction similar to that of John 1:1 use the expression “a god.” For example, when referring to Herod Agrippa I, the crowds shouted: ‘It is a god speaking.’ And when Paul survived a bite by a poisonous snake, the people said: “He is a god.” (Acts 12:22; 28:3-6) It is in harmony with both Greek grammar and Bible teaching to speak of the Word as, not God, but “a god.”—John 1:1.

Consider how John identified “the Word” in the first chapter of his Gospel. “The Word became flesh and resided among us,” he wrote, “and we had a view of his glory, a glory such as belongs [not to God but] to an only-begotten son from a father.” So “the Word,” who became flesh, lived on the earth as the man Jesus and was seen by people. Therefore, he could not have been Almighty God, regarding whom John says: “No man has seen God at any time.”—John 1:14, 18.

‘Why, then,’ one may ask, ‘did Thomas exclaim when seeing the resurrected Jesus, “My Lord and my God!”?’ As already noted, Jesus is a god in the sense of being divine, but he is not the Father. Jesus had just told Mary Magdalene: “I am ascending to my Father and your Father and to my God and your God.” Remember, too, why John wrote his Gospel. Three verses after the account about Thomas, John explained that he wrote so that people “may believe that Jesus is the Christ the Son of God”—not that he is God.—John 20:17, 28, 31.


When Peter carried the good news about Jesus to Cornelius, there was a further opportunity to reveal the Trinity doctrine. What happened? Peter explained that Jesus is “Lord of all.” But he went on to explain that this lordship came from a higher source. Jesus was “the One decreed by God to be judge of the living and the dead.” After Jesus’ resurrection, his Father “granted him [gave him permission] to become manifest” to his followers. And the holy spirit? It does appear in this conversation but not as the third person of a Trinity. Rather, “God anointed [Jesus] with holy spirit and power.” Thus, the holy spirit, far from being a person, is shown to be something impersonal, like the “power” also mentioned in that verse. (Acts 10:36, 38, 40, 42) Check the Bible carefully, and you will find further evidence that the holy spirit is not a personality but an active force that can fill people, impel them, cause them to be aglow, and be poured out upon them.

Finally, the apostle Paul had a fine opportunity to explain the Trinity—if it had been true doctrine—when he was preaching to the Athenians. In his talk, he referred to their altar “To an Unknown God” and said: “What you are unknowingly giving godly devotion to, this I am publishing to you.” Did he publish a Trinity? No. He described the “God that made the world and all the things in it, being, as this One is, Lord of heaven and earth.” But what of Jesus? “[God] has set a day in which he purposes to judge the inhabited earth in righteousness by a man whom he has appointed.” (Acts 17:23, 24, 31) No hint of a Trinity there!

In fact, Paul explained something about God’s purposes that makes it impossible that Jesus and his Father are equal parts of a Trinity. He wrote: “God ‘subjected all things under his [Jesus’] feet.’ But when he says that ‘all things have been subjected,’ it is evident that it is with the exception of the one who subjected all things to him. But when all things will have been subjected to him, then the Son himself will also subject himself to the One who subjected all things to him, that God may be all things to everyone.” (1 Corinthians 15:27, 28) Thus, God will still be over all, including Jesus.


@Davidlan
Have you not heard people say boy is his is father! That doesn't mean the  boy is both son and father but that the son has same qualities and features like the father. e.g Adenuga's son Paddy Adenuga can boastfully tell you that when you have seen him you have seen his father. Is it the same as saying that Paddy Adenuga is the father.

I'm writing this for those who want to examine the concept of trinity with an open mind with the believe that it can be flawed and not for those who will not change there stance even if Jesus comes from Heaven to proof that he takes orders from his father which definitely does not make he lower that he should be.

Peace

Bobbyaf:
@ dwonder

Jehovah’s Witnesses

That is debatable.

Ok let us discuss them one by one. I hope you're prepared to be honest in your rejoinders.

There have been many instances when JW's have failed to utilize God's words to prove their teachings. The JW's failed prophesies are proof of that reality. The organization refers to itself as a prophet, yet has changed several of its teachings when it was discovered that the events didn't match up with the scriptures, as well as the predictions.

Another example is the teaching that speaks about the invisible coming of Jesus in 1914, when in truth and in fact Jesus as well as the apostles spoke of a literal return. In addition to that Jesus Himself said that no man knows the time of His second coming. He also pointed out that He and His angels would be coming in power and great glory and that the whole world would be made aware of such a return.

Matthew 24:30, 31 "And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.  31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other."

Now tell where in this text does it speak of invisibility? Although the Greek word parousia also means presence, its most pronounced meaning is coming. In fact when Paul uses the word he uses it to speak of moving from one location to another. The angels in addressing the disciples at the Lord's ascension explicitly said that the Lord would come in like manner when He descends again the 2nd time. In other words He will be visible to all.

There are others I will point out later after your response.


I am a witness of Jehovah, but not a Jehovah's Witness. I hope you see the point I am making. By singling out Jehovah as the only true God, you're saying that Jesus isn't true. Listen to the problem you face. You all teach that Jesus is a god, based on the rendition of the New World translation. In other words Jehovah is God, and His Son who is a god isn't true.  If the Son isn't true, then what does that make Him out to be? Your guess is as good as mine.

You refer to Jesus as the first of God's creation to suggest that God created Jesus. Here's your problem. How could Jesus be creature and Creator all at once? Why would God the Father go against His own words, and attribute God-like authority to one of His creatures when He Himself says that He doesn't share any of His glory with any of His creatures?

According to John it was Jesus the logos who ", made all things"

Listen to Isaiah 42:8, "I am the LORD: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another"

Obviously, the prophet no doubt was referring to God not sharing His glory with any of His creation, in the sense of not allowing any of His creation to attribute to themselves what rightfully belongs to Him. Hence why would God treat Jesus with partiality if he was merely one of His creation? But listen to Paul as He clarifies the whole matter.

Phil. 2:6, "Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God, "

So there has to be a context in which Paul refers to Jesus as being the first-born of God's creation. That should not be limited, because of a failure to understand scriptures, to Jesus being the first to be created by God, and then endowing him with special powers. If that were the case then the whole plan of salvation would be fraudulent and suspicious. The reality is that only God could have died in the sinner's place, and not a creature. That is why the angel said that "He shall be called Emanuel", which being interpreted means, "God is with us" Jesus Christ is fully God. In fact I will push the envelope a little further. I will hasten to say that the prophet Isaiah when he spoke about The LORD, he was referring to Jesus. In reality Jesus is the fullness of the Godhead in body. It was He who manifested Himself before and among Israel, and my reason for concluding this is that from the very foundation of the plan to redeem fallen man, it was Jesus who decided to take on the role of Heaven's representative. It was He who delivered the law; it was He who delivered the Hebrew people; it was He who appeared to Abraham, and the patriarchs of old, including Moses at the burning bush.

I could go on but I will wait for your response.

Lovely post I must say,

The fact that the witnesses use the bible to support their belief is not debatable I must say, one reason they are different from many of the so called christians is the fact that they do not just look at a portion of the bible then begin to use it to prove a point. Rather they concentrate on the global theme of the bible or else you may begin to find that some portion of the bible will contradict the other. Note that one part of the bible explains the other clarifying things that may seem to be a mystery.

  “To YOU the sacred secret of the kingdom of God has been given, but to those outside all things occur in illustrations, 12 in order that, though looking, they may look and yet not see, and, though hearing, they may hear and yet not get the sense of it, nor ever turn back and forgiveness be given them.


As reflected in their modern-day history, the experience of Jehovah’s Witnesses has been like that described at Proverbs 4:18: “The path of the righteous ones is like the bright light that is getting lighter and lighter until the day is firmly established.” [/b]The shining of the light has been progressive, just as the light of early dawn gives way to sunrise and the full light of a new day. [b]Viewing matters in the light that was available, they have at times had incomplete, even inaccurate, concepts. No matter how hard they tried, they simply could not understand certain prophecies until these began to undergo fulfillment.  This is a human error not the error of the God they serve. As Jehovah has shed more light on his Word by means of his spirit, his servants have been humbly willing to make needed adjustments.




J[b]ehovah has always led his people to clearer understanding of his will. (Ps. 43:3) [/b]Just how he has guided them may be illustrated this way: If a person has been in a dark room for a long period of time, is it not best if he is exposed to light gradually? Jehovah has exposed his people to the light of truth in a similar manner; he has enlightened them progressively. (Compare John 16:12, 13.)

12 “I have many things yet to say to YOU, but YOU are not able to bear them at present. 13 However, when that one arrives, the spirit of the truth, he will guide YOU into all the truth, for he will not speak of his own impulse, but what things he hears he will speak, and he will declare to YOU the things coming. 14 That one will glorify me, because he will receive from what is mine and will declare it to YOU. 15 All the things that the Father has are mine. That is why I said he receives from what is mine and declares [it] to YOU. 16 In a little while YOU will behold me no longer, and, again, in a little while YOU will see me.”


It has been as the proverb says: “The path of the righteous ones is like the bright light that is getting lighter and lighter until the day is firmly established.”—Prov. 4:18.

Jehovah’s dealings with his chosen servants in Bible times confirm that clear understanding of his will and purposes often comes gradually. Abraham did not fully understand how Jehovah’s purpose in connection with the “seed” would work out. (Gen. 12:1-3, 7; 15:2-4; compare Hebrews 11:8.)

Daniel did not grasp the final outcome of the prophecies he recorded. (Dan. 12:8, 9)

Jesus, when on earth, admitted that he did not know the day and hour that the present system of things would end. (Matt. 24:36) The apostles did not at first understand that Jesus’ Kingdom would be heavenly, that it was not to be established in the first century, and that even Gentiles may inherit it.—Luke 19:11; Acts 1:6, 7; 10:9-16, 34, 35; 2 Tim. 4:18; Rev. 5:9, 10.

It should not surprise us that in modern times too, Jehovah has often led his people as a progressive organization, gradually enlightening them as to Bible truths.

It is not the truths themselves that change. Truth remains truth. Jehovah’s will and purpose, as outlined in the Bible, remain fixed. (Isa. 46:10) But their understanding of these truths gets progressively clearer “at the proper time,” Jehovah’s due time. (Matt. 24:45; compare Daniel 12:4, 9.) At times, because of human error or misguided zeal, their viewpoint may need to be adjusted.

JW are humble to accept their errors however my friend many Christians today and their leaders are not humble enough to accept correction from God's word even when there is overwhelming proof that there beliefs may need to be refined.  

We are moved to make a closer examination of the Scriptures regarding this matter of a day of judgment. In doing so, we find that the important thing is not the date. What is important is our keeping ever in mind that there is such a day—and it is getting closer and it will require an accounting on the part of all of us. Peter said that Christians should rightly be “awaiting and keeping close in mind the presence of the day of Jehovah.” (2 Pet. 3:12) It is not a certain date ahead; it is day-to-day living on the part of the Christian that is important. He must not live a single day without having in mind that he is under Jehovah’s loving care and direction and must submit himself thereto, keeping also in mind that he must account for his acts.


I like your play on words as to being a witness of Jehovah. I really don't see a difference cos all that matters is that Jehovah is defended by the spread of the truth about him and his Kingdom.


My friend we can talk about trinity from now till the end of the world but there are certain facts about trinity that we don't need to argue but just think about with an open mind.

Remember there

1. are those who believe Jesus is the ALmighty God who created all things and he himself was not created. they beleive this Almighty God came down to earth in bodily form and they pray to Jesus. (Just a tot: who was acting God when he was here)

2. those that believe Jesus is the son of God but by his position in God's plans is a god and a part of the trinity though they are different individuals yet they are equal.        

God, who long ago spoke on many occasions and in many ways to our forefathers by means of the prophets, has at the end of these days spoken to us by means of a Son.” This Son is the appointed Heir of all things and the reflection of his Father’s glory. Having made a purification for our sins, he has now “sat down on the right hand of the Majesty in lofty places.”          

3. those that are really confused by this all.

4. I believe simply without ambiguity that Jesus is God's (Jehovah) Master worker who answers to him. He  

“I have glorified you on the earth, having finished the work you have given me to do. So now you, Father, glorify me alongside yourself with the glory that I had alongside you before the world was.” (John 17:4, 5)


I will not talk about your other question raised on trinity for Perrito4u has commented on them


I look forward to ur comments meanwhile i hope you will take sometime to think about the difference between the God of Isreal and Jesus Christ of Nazareth

Best Advice
If a person finds that his body does not handle alcohol well, then the best advice is to avoid it altogether. If he feels that he cannot control it, he should not even take one drink, as often that paves the way for more.

Some persons who take several drinks a day feel that, since they are not getting drunk, it means they have the matter under control. If you suggest to them that this may constitute the beginning of alcoholism, or that they are already mild alcoholics, they usually reject the thought. They may say that a few drinks a day is not alcoholism and that they can stop at any time they want.

If so, there is a simple test that can help the person to see the direction in which he is going. He should see whether, without its causing mental and emotional turmoil, he can stop drinking altogether for a long period of time, at least a month or two. If he cannot, or if he does but finds he just waits for the day when he will resume drinking, it is a definite indication that he is already trapped by the alcohol habit.
However, some, challenged to do without alcohol for a length of time, say that they have no need to make such a test since they are not alcoholics. But this is often an excuse to keep drinking because they cannot face up to the fact that they may be too far gone already toward some degree of alcoholism.

One thing is clear: when a person does not want to, or feels that he cannot go without drinking for a long period of time, it is a solid indication that he is already in trouble with alcohol. He should face the situation honestly and not continue to delude himself. For if he continues, the likelihood is very strong that he will progress toward a more serious form of alcoholism and see his entire life deteriorate.

Considering Others

What can you do to help other people who may have problems with drinking? There are several things you may consider.

For instance, if you are hosting a gathering and offer refreshments, do you present only alcoholic beverages? Why not offer a nonalcoholic beverage too? This would be considerate of those who may take an alcoholic drink because of social pressure but who may really prefer something else. And if you know that someone already has a problem with alcohol, why serve it at all when he is in the group?

huxley2:
When was woman created? Was woman created outside of the six days of creation or within the six days of creation?

noetic2:
Eve was created outside the six days of creation. She was created to be help mate to Adam.

Eve was created within the six days of creation.


Genesis 1:26-31

26 And God went on to say: “Let us make man in our image, according to our likeness, and let them have in subjection the fish of the sea and the flying creatures of the heavens and the domestic animals and all the earth and every moving animal that is moving upon the earth.” 27 And God proceeded to create the man in his image, in God’s image he created him; male and female he created them. 28 Further, God blessed them and God said to them: “Be fruitful and become many and fill the earth and subdue it, and have in subjection the fish of the sea and the flying creatures of the heavens and every living creature that is moving upon the earth.”

29 And God went on to say: “Here I have given to YOU all vegetation bearing seed which is on the surface of the whole earth and every tree on which there is the fruit of a tree bearing seed. To YOU let it serve as food. 30 And to every wild beast of the earth and to every flying creature of the heavens and to everything moving upon the earth in which there is life as a soul I have given all green vegetation for food.” And it came to be so.

31 After that God saw everything he had made and, look! [it was] very good. And there came to be evening and there came to be morning, a sixth day.


Genesis 2 simply furnishes us with further details of how eve was created!

However the day eve was created doesn't add a cubit to a Christian's faith so I wouldn't oblige starting a long unending discussion 'bout it

Not Equal to God

Another scripture the churches use is John 5:18. It says that the Jews wanted to kill Jesus because “he was also calling God his own Father, making himself equal to God.” Who was saying that Jesus was making himself equal to God? Not Jesus. He clears this up in the very next verse (19) by stating: “The Son cannot do a single thing of his own initiative, but only what he beholds the Father doing.” So Jesus did not claim that he was almighty God or equal to Him. He was showing the Jews that they were mistaken, that he was not God, but that he was the Son of God, and as God’s spokesman, he could not act on his own initiative. Can we imagine the almighty God of the universe saying that he could do nothing of his own initiative? So the Jews made a charge, and Jesus refuted it.

Thus, from the testimony of God in his own inspired Word, from the testimony of Jesus, and from the testimony of the disciples of Jesus, the overwhelming evidence clearly shows that almighty God and Jesus Christ are two separate personalities, Father and Son. That evidence also clearly shows that the holy spirit is not the third person of any Trinity but God’s active force. It is futile to take scriptures out of context or to try twisting them to support the Trinity. Any such scriptures must be harmonized with the rest of the Bible’s clear testimony.

I and the Father Are One”

The churches often cite John 10:30 to try to support the Trinity, although no mention is made of any third person in that verse. There Jesus said: “I and the Father are one.” But did Jesus mean that he was God Almighty himself, just in a different form? No, that could not be since Jesus always said that he was God’s Son, inferior to Him and in subjection to Him. What, then, did Jesus mean at John 10:30?

Jesus meant that he was one in thought and purpose with his Father. This can be seen at John 17:21, 22, where Jesus prayed to God that his disciples “may all be one, just as you, Father, are in union with me and I am in union with you, that they also may be in union with us . . . that they may be one just as we are one.” Was Jesus praying that all his disciples would become one person? No, he was praying that they would be in unity, of the same mind and purpose, just as Jesus and God were.

The same idea is expressed at 1 Corinthians 1:10, where Paul states that Christians ‘should all speak in agreement, and that there should not be divisions among them, but that they should be fitly united in the same mind and in the same line of thought.’ So when Jesus said that he and his Father were one, he did not mean that they were the same person, just as when he said that his disciples should become one he did not mean that they were the same person.

Was Jesus Also Called God?

Although Jesus never claimed to be God, as Jehovah’s appointed ruler he is identified in Isaiah’s prophecy by the terms “Mighty God” and “Prince of Peace.” Isaiah’s prophecy adds: “To the abundance of the princely rule and to peace there will be no end.” (Isaiah 9:6, 7) So, as the “Prince”—the son of the Great King, Jehovah—Jesus will serve as Ruler of the heavenly government of “God Almighty.”—Exodus 6:3.

Yet, a person may ask, ‘In what sense is Jesus a “Mighty God,” and didn’t the apostle John say that Jesus is himself God?’ In the King James version of the Bible, John 1:1 reads: “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.” Some argue that this means that “the Word,” who was born on earth as the baby Jesus, is Almighty God himself. Is this true?

If this verse were interpreted to mean Jesus was himself God Almighty, it would contradict the preceding statement, “the Word was with God.” Someone who is “with” another person cannot be the same as that other person. Many Bible translations thus draw a distinction, making clear that the Word was not God Almighty. For example, a sampling of Bible translations say the following: “The Word was a God,” “a god was the Word,” and “the Word was divine.”

Bible verses that in the Greek language have a construction similar to that of John 1:1 use the expression “a god.” For example, when referring to Herod Agrippa I, the crowds shouted: ‘It is a god speaking.’ And when Paul survived a bite by a poisonous snake, the people said: “He is a god.” (Acts 12:22; 28:3-6) It is in harmony with both Greek grammar and Bible teaching to speak of the Word as, not God, but “a god.”—John 1:1.

Consider how John identified “the Word” in the first chapter of his Gospel. “The Word became flesh and resided among us,” he wrote, “and we had a view of his glory, a glory such as belongs [not to God but] to an only-begotten son from a father.” So “the Word,” who became flesh, lived on the earth as the man Jesus and was seen by people. Therefore, he could not have been Almighty God, regarding whom John says: “No man has seen God at any time.”—John 1:14, 18.

‘Why, then,’ one may ask, ‘did Thomas exclaim when seeing the resurrected Jesus, “My Lord and my God!”?’ As already noted, Jesus is a god in the sense of being divine, but he is not the Father. Jesus had just told Mary Magdalene: “I am ascending to my Father and your Father and to my God and your God.” Remember, too, why John wrote his Gospel. Three verses after the account about Thomas, John explained that he wrote so that people “may believe that Jesus is the Christ the Son of God”—not that he is God.—John 20:17, 28, 31.

What Is “the End of the World”?

THE Bible has much to say about the fact that “the world is passing away.” In many places it contains specific information about the time that it also calls “the conclusion of the system of things.” But when the Bible speaks about this “end of the world,” what does it mean? Does it mean that our home, planet Earth, is to be destroyed?—1 John 2:17; Matthew 24:3, King James Version.

God does not have to destroy the earth in order to eliminate the frightful conditions that are so prevalent on it. The earth is not causing the problems in human society today. People are responsible, especially people who have little or no regard for the Creator, Jehovah God, and his laws. They are the ones who are turning life on this earth into a nightmare for so many. But God does not have to destroy the earth to rid it of such ones.

Confusing Religious Teachings
Confusion has been caused by religious spokesmen who interpret “the end of the world” to mean the destruction of the earth itself and all living things on it


Which World to Be Destroyed?
It was Jesus’ disciples who asked him a direct question about the end of the world. This is recorded at Matthew 24:3, according to the King James, or Authorized, Version of the Bible: “Tell us, . . . what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?”



the Bible teaches us that it is the wicked system of things on earth that will be brought to a sudden end. This includes all forms of corruption, falsehood, and hypocrisy now existing, whether it is political, commercial, or religious. All degradation and immorality, all wickedness, and all godless humans existing on earth at that time will be forcibly removed.

Two clear statements found in the Bible, which need no interpreting, should remove any fear that the earth may be destroyed when the “world” comes to its end. The first is found at Ecclesiastes 1:4 (KJ): “One generation passeth away, and another generation cometh: but the earth abideth for ever.”
The second appears at Isaiah 45:18 (KJ): “For thus saith the LORD that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I am the LORD; and there is none else.”

Thus the world that the Bible so definitely says will be destroyed is the world of mankind that is not doing the will of God. “As regards the wicked, they will be cut off from the very earth; and as for the treacherous, they will be torn away from it.” (Proverbs 2:22) “There is a controversy that Jehovah has with the nations. He must personally put himself in judgment with all flesh. As regards the wicked ones, he must give them to the sword . . . And those slain by Jehovah will certainly come to be in that day from one end of the earth clear to the other end of the earth.”—Jeremiah 25:31, 33.

The Koran refers to the miraculous birth of Jesus at Surah 19 (Mary). It says: “We sent to [Mary] Our spirit in the semblance of a full-grown man. And when she saw him she said: ‘May the Merciful defend me from you! If you fear the Lord, leave me and go your way.’ ‘I am the messenger of your Lord,’ he replied, ‘and have come to give you a holy son.’ ‘How shall I bear a child,’ she answered, ‘when I am a virgin, untouched by man?’ ‘Such is the will of your Lord,’ he replied. ‘That is no difficult thing for Him. “He shall be a sign to mankind,” says the Lord, “and a blessing from Ourself. This is Our decree.


Can It Possibly Be Said That Christ Is the Son of God?

IT IS unthinkable that God should have a son resulting from relations with a woman or that he would marry and beget children. God is unique. What humans do to reproduce should never be applied to him. This is precisely what the Holy Scriptures teach and emphasize.

Why, then, do the Holy Scriptures use the expression “son of God” in many instances? For example, it is said that Adam was a “son of God.” (Luke 3:38) But how could that be?

The Torah explains: “And Jehovah God proceeded to form the man [Adam] out of dust from the ground and to blow into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man came to be a living soul.” (Genesis 2:7) Therefore, Adam was called a son of God because his life came from God without human parents. Similarly, Jesus Christ is called the son of God, for his life came directly from God. We read in the Qur’ān: “The similitude of Jesus before God is as that of Adam; He created him from dust, then said to him: ‘Be’: And he was.”—Āl ‘Imrān [3]:59.[/b]Language also permits a figurative use of the word “son.” In Arabic, for example, the expression “son of the village” is used to refer to a native villager, and the expression “the son of the language” is used to indicate the speaker of a tongue. Of course, such expressions do not mean that either the village or the language has literally begotten children through marriage! Similarly, in [b]Al-Baqarah [2]:177 the rendering “wayfarer” is a translation of the Arabic expression “son of the road.” Here again no one can say that the road has actually married and thereby produced a son. Likewise, when the Qur’ān employs such expressions as “the face of God,” “the Hand of God,” and “mounted He the Throne,” these are not understood literally. (Al-Baqarah [2]:109, Rodwell; Al-Fatḥ [48]:10; Al-A‘rāf [7]:54, MMP) Finally, not all Muslim scholars object to the use of the expression “son of God” in the Injīl. Both Imām Abū Ḥāmid Al-Ghazālī and Ibn Qutaybah accept it as a figure of speech.

Celestine247:
because no matter how smart we may be



one day

we are leaving this sinful world to an unknown destination.

accept JESUS CHRIST today, my brother and sister

unknown destination?

Are you sure 'bout that?

Go in through the narrow gate; because broad and spacious is the road leading off into destruction, and many are the ones going in through it; 14 whereas narrow is the gate and cramped the road leading off into life, and few are the ones finding it.

Be on the watch for the false prophets that come to YOU in sheep’s covering, but inside they are ravenous wolves. 16 By their fruits YOU will recognize them. Never do people gather grapes from thorns or figs from thistles, do they? 17 Likewise every good tree produces fine fruit, but every rotten tree produces worthless fruit; 18 a good tree cannot bear worthless fruit, neither can a rotten tree produce fine fruit. 19 Every tree not producing fine fruit gets cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Really, then, by their fruits YOU will recognize those [men].

“Not everyone saying to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter into the kingdom of the heavens, but the one doing the will of my Father who is in the heavens will. 22 Many will say to me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and expel demons in your name, and perform many powerful works in your name?’ And yet then I will confess to them: I never knew YOU! Get away from me, YOU workers of lawlessness.

Have you always believed in the Trinity?
Did you ever make a thorough study of what the Bible says on this subject?

If God were part of a trinity, would not his Word, the Bible, clearly and directly tell us so?

‘When Jesus was baptized, a voice came out of heaven, saying: “You are my Son, the beloved.” If God were truly on earth being baptized, would he project his voice up to heaven and back so that those words could be heard on the earth? Would that not be misleading? Would God, “who cannot lie,” do such a deceptive thing?’—Luke 3:21, 22; Titus 1:1, 2.

JESUS often prayed to God, whom he called Father, and he also taught others to do so. (Matthew 6:9-11; Luke 11:1, 2) In prayer with his apostles—only hours before his death—Jesus petitioned: “Father, the hour has come; glorify your son, that your son may glorify you. This means everlasting life, their taking in knowledge of you, the only true God, and of the one whom you sent forth, Jesus Christ.”—John 17:1, 3.

Notice that Jesus prays to One whom he calls “the only true God.” He points to God’s superior position when he continues: “So now you, Father, glorify me alongside yourself with the glory that I had alongside you before the world was.” (John 17:5) Since Jesus prayed to God requesting to be alongside God, how could Jesus at the same time be “the only true God”?

Do Jehovah’s Witnesses believe that their religion is the only right one?
The Bible does not agree with the modern view that there are many acceptable ways to worship God. Ephesians 4:5 says there is “one Lord, one faith.” Jesus stated: “Narrow is the gate and cramped the road leading off into life, and few are the ones finding it. . . . Not everyone saying to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter into the kingdom of the heavens, but the one doing the will of my Father who is in the heavens will.”—Matt. 7:13, 14, 21; see also 1 Corinthians 1:10.

Repeatedly the Scriptures refer to the body of true Christian teachings as “the truth,” and Christianity is spoken of as “the way of the truth.” (1 Tim. 3:15; 2 John 1; 2 Pet. 2:2) Because Jehovah’s Witnesses base all of their beliefs, their standards for conduct, and organizational procedures on the Bible, their faith in the Bible itself as God’s Word gives them the conviction that what they have is indeed the truth. So their position is not egotistical but demonstrates their confidence that the Bible is the right standard against which to measure one’s religion. They are not self-centered but are eager to share their beliefs with others.

Do not other religions also follow the Bible?
Many use it to some extent. But do they really teach and practice what it contains? Consider: (1) From most of their Bible translations they have removed the name of the true God thousands of times. (2) The Trinity doctrine, their concept of God himself, is borrowed from pagan sources and was developed in its present form centuries after Bible writing was completed. (3) Their belief in immortality of the human soul as the basis for continued life is not taken from the Bible; it has roots in ancient Babylon. (4) The theme of Jesus’ preaching was the Kingdom of God, and he sent his disciples out to talk personally to others about it; but the churches today seldom mention that Kingdom and their members are not doing the work of preaching “this good news of the kingdom.” (Matt. 24:14) (5) Jesus said that his true followers could be readily identified by their self-sacrificing love for one another. Is that true of the religions of Christendom when the nations go to war? (6) The Bible says that Christ’s disciples would be no part of the world, and it warns that whoever wants to be a friend of the world makes himself an enemy of God; but the churches of Christendom and their members are deeply involved in the political affairs of the nations. (Jas. 4:4) In view of such a record, can it honestly be said that they really adhere to the Bible?How do Jehovah’s Witnesses arrive at their explanation of the Bible?
A key factor is that the Witnesses really believe that the Bible is God’s Word and that what it contains is there for our instruction. (2 Tim. 3:16, 17; Rom. 15:4; 1 Cor. 10:11) So they do not resort to philosophical arguments to evade its clear statements of truth or to justify the way of life of people who have abandoned its moral standards.

In pointing out the meaning of symbolic language in the Bible, they let the Bible provide its own explanation, instead of giving their theories as to its significance. (1 Cor. 2:13) Indications as to the meaning of symbolic terms are usually found in other parts of the Bible. (As an example, see Revelation 21:1; then, regarding the meaning of “sea,” read Isaiah 57:20. To identify “the Lamb” referred to in Revelation 14:1, see John 1:29 and 1 Peter 1:19.)

As for fulfillment of prophecy, they apply what Jesus said about being alert to events that correspond to what was foretold. (Luke 21:29-31; compare 2 Peter 1:16-19.) Conscientiously they point out those events and draw attention to what the Bible indicates they mean.

Jesus said that he would have on earth a “faithful and discreet slave” (his anointed followers viewed as a group), through which agency he would provide spiritual food to those making up the household of faith. (Matt. 24:45-47) Jehovah’s Witnesses recognize that arrangement. As was true of first-century Christians, they look to the governing body of that “slave” class to resolve difficult questions—not on the basis of human wisdom, but by drawing on their knowledge of God’s Word and his dealings with his servants, and with the help of God’s spirit, for which they earnestly pray.—Acts 15:1-29; 16:4, 5.

Why have there been changes over the years in the teachings of Jehovah’s Witnesses?
The Bible shows that Jehovah enables his servants to understand his purpose in a progressive manner. (Prov. 4:18; John 16:12) Thus, the prophets who were divinely inspired to write portions of the Bible did not understand the meaning of everything that they wrote. (Dan. 12:8, 9; 1 Pet. 1:10-12) The apostles of Jesus Christ realized that there was much they did not understand in their time. (Acts 1:6, 7; 1 Cor. 13:9-12) The Bible shows that there would be a great increase in knowledge of the truth during “the time of the end.” (Dan. 12:4) Increased knowledge often requires adjustments in one’s thinking. Jehovah’s Witnesses are willing humbly to make such adjustments.

Are Jehovah’s Witnesses an American religion?
They are advocates of God’s Kingdom, not of the political, economic, or social system of any nation of this old world.

It is true that Jehovah’s Witnesses had their modern-day start in the United States. The location of their world headquarters there has helped to make it possible to print and ship Bible literature to most parts of the world. But the Witnesses do not favor one nation over another; they are found in almost every nation, and they have offices in many parts of the earth to supervise their activity in those areas.

Consider: Jesus as a Jew was born in Palestine, but Christianity is not a Palestinian religion, is it? The place of Jesus’ human birth is not the most important factor to consider. What Jesus taught originated with his Father, Jehovah God, who deals impartially with people of all nations.—John 14:10; Acts 10:34, 35.

How is the work of Jehovah’s Witnesses financed?
By voluntary contributions, as was true with the early Christians. (2 Cor. 8:12; 9:7) No collections are ever taken at their meetings; they do not beg for money from the public. Any donations from interested persons are used to further the worldwide work of Bible education conducted by the Witnesses.

Witnesses are not paid to go from house to house or to offer Bible literature on the streets. Love for God and for neighbor motivates them to talk about God’s loving provisions for mankind.

The Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society of Pennsylvania, a legal religious corporation that is used by Jehovah’s Witnesses, was incorporated in 1884 in accordance with the Nonprofit Corporation Law of the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania, U.S.A. Thus, by law it cannot be, and it is not, a profit-making enterprise, nor do individuals make a profit through this Society. The Society’s charter states: “It [the Society] does not contemplate pecuniary gain or profit, incidentally or otherwise, to its members, directors or officers.”

Are Jehovah’s Witnesses a sect or a cult?
Some define sect to mean a group that has broken away from an established religion. Others apply the term to a group that follows a particular human leader or teacher. The term is usually used in a derogatory way. Jehovah’s Witnesses are not an offshoot of some church but include persons from all walks of life and from many religious backgrounds. They do not look to any human, but rather to Jesus Christ, as their leader.[/b]A cult is a religion that is said to be unorthodox or that emphasizes devotion according to prescribed ritual. Many cults follow a living human leader, and often their adherents live in groups apart from the rest of society. The standard for what is orthodox, however, should be God’s Word, and Jehovah’s Witnesses strictly adhere to the Bible. Their worship is a way of life, not a ritual devotion. They neither follow a human nor isolate themselves from the rest of society. They live and work in the midst of other people.

[b]How old is the religion of Jehovah’s Witnesses?
According to the Bible, the line of witnesses of Jehovah reaches back to faithful Abel. Hebrews 11:4–12:1 says: “By faith Abel offered God a sacrifice of greater worth than Cain . . . By faith Noah, after being given divine warning of things not yet beheld, showed godly fear . . . By faith Abraham, when he was called, obeyed in going out into a place he was destined to receive as an inheritance . . . By faith Moses, when grown up, refused to be called the son of the daughter of Pharaoh, choosing to be ill-treated with the people of God rather than to have the temporary enjoyment of sin . . . So, then, because we have so great a cloud of witnesses surrounding us, let us also put off every weight and the sin that easily entangles us, and let us run with endurance the race that is set before us.”

With reference to Jesus Christ, the Bible states: “These are the things that the Amen says, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation by God.” Of whom was he a witness? He himself said that he made his Father’s name manifest. He was the foremost witness of Jehovah.—Rev. 3:14; John 17:6.

Interestingly, some of the Jews asked whether the activity of Jesus Christ represented “a new teaching.” (Mark 1:27) Later, some Greeks thought the apostle Paul was introducing a “new teaching.” (Acts 17:19, 20) It was new to the ears of those who were hearing it, but the important thing was that it was the truth, in full harmony with God’s Word.

The modern-day history of Jehovah’s Witnesses began with the forming of a group for Bible study in Allegheny, Pennsylvania, U.S.A., in the early 1870’s. At first they were known only as Bible Students, but in 1931 they adopted the Scriptural name Jehovah’s Witnesses. (Isa. 43:10-12) Their beliefs and practices are not new but are a restoration of first-century Christianity.

Jehovah’s Witnesses

Definition: The worldwide Christian society of people who actively bear witness regarding Jehovah God and his purposes affecting mankind. They base their beliefs solely on the Bible.

What beliefs of Jehovah’s Witnesses set them apart as different from other religions?

(1) Bible: Jehovah’s Witnesses believe that the entire Bible is the inspired Word of God, and instead of adhering to a creed based on human tradition, they hold to the Bible as the standard for all their beliefs.

(2) God: They worship Jehovah as the only true God and freely speak to others about him and his loving purposes toward mankind. Anyone who publicly witnesses about Jehovah is usually identified as belonging to the one group—“Jehovah’s Witnesses.”

(3) Jesus Christ: They believe, not that Jesus Christ is part of a Trinity, but that, as the Bible says, he is the Son of God, the first of God’s creations; that he had a prehuman existence and that his life was transferred from heaven to the womb of a virgin, Mary; that his perfect human life laid down in sacrifice makes possible salvation to eternal life for those who exercise faith; that Christ is actively ruling as King, with God-given authority over all the earth since 1914.

(4) God’s Kingdom: They believe that God’s Kingdom is the only hope for mankind; that it is a real government; that it will soon destroy the present wicked system of things, including all human governments, and that it will produce a new system in which righteousness will prevail.

(5) Heavenly life: They believe that 144,000 spirit-anointed Christians will share with Christ in his heavenly Kingdom, ruling as kings with him. They do not believe that heaven is the reward for everyone who is “good.”

(6) The earth: They believe that God’s original purpose for the earth will be fulfilled; that the earth will be completely populated by worshipers of Jehovah and that these will be able to enjoy eternal life in human perfection; that even the dead will be raised to an opportunity to share in these blessings.

(7) Death: They believe that the dead are conscious of absolutely nothing; that they are experiencing neither pain nor pleasure in some spirit realm; that they do not exist except in God’s memory, so hope for their future life lies in a resurrection from the dead.

( Last days: They believe that we are living now, since 1914, in the last days of this wicked system of things; that some who saw the events of 1914 will also see the complete destruction of the present wicked world; that lovers of righteousness will survive into a cleansed earth.

(9) Separate from the world: They earnestly endeavor to be no part of the world, as Jesus said would be true of his followers. They show genuine Christian love for their neighbors, but they do not share in the politics or the wars of any nation. They provide for the material needs of their families but shun the world’s avid pursuit of material things and personal fame and its excessive indulgence in pleasure.

(10) Apply Bible counsel: They believe that it is important to apply the counsel of God’s Word in everyday life now—at home, in school, in business, in their congregation. Regardless of a person’s past way of life, he may become one of Jehovah’s Witnesses if he abandons practices condemned by God’s Word and applies its godly counsel. But if anyone thereafter makes a practice of adultery, fornication, homosexuality, drug abuse, drunkenness, lying, or stealing, he will be disfellowshipped from the organization.

(The above list briefly states some outstanding beliefs of Jehovah’s Witnesses but by no means all the points on which their beliefs are different from those of other groups

Comparative Gravity of Wrongdoing.

Although sin is sin, and in any case could justly make the guilty one worthy of sin’s “wages,” death, the Scriptures show that God views mankind’s wrongdoing as varying in degrees of gravity. Thus, the men of Sodom were “gross sinners against God,” and their sin was “very heavy.” (Ge 13:13; 18:20; compare 2Ti 3:6, 7.) The Israelites’ making a golden calf was also called “a great sin” (Ex 32:30, 31), and Jeroboam’s calf worship similarly caused those of the northern kingdom “to sin with a great sin.” (2Ki 17:16, 21) Judah’s sin became “like that of Sodom,” making the kingdom of Judah abhorrent in God’s eyes. (Isa 1:4, 10; 3:9; La 1:8; 4:6) Such a course of disregard for God’s will can make even one’s very prayer become a sin. (Ps 109:7, 8, 14) Since sin is an affront to God’s own person, he is not indifferent to it; as its gravity increases, his indignation and wrath are understandably increased. (Ro 1:18; De 29:22-28; Job 42:7; Ps 21:8, 9) His wrath, however, is not solely due to the involvement of his own person but is likewise stirred by the injury and injustice done to humans and particularly to his faithful servants.—Isa 10:1-4; Mal 2:13-16; 2Th 1:6-10.

Human weakness and ignorance. God takes into account the weakness of imperfect men descended from Adam, so that those sincerely seeking Him can say, “He has not done to us even according to our sins; nor according to our errors has he brought upon us what we deserve.” The Scriptures show the wonderful mercy and loving-kindness that God has displayed in his patient dealings with men of flesh. (Ps 103:2, 3, 10-18) He also takes into account ignorance as a contributory factor in sins (1Ti 1:13; compare Lu 12:47, 48), provided such ignorance is not willful. Those who willfully reject the knowledge and wisdom God offers, ‘taking pleasure in unrighteousness,’ are not excused. (2Th 2:9-12; Pr 1:22-33; Ho 4:6- Some are temporarily misled from the truth but, with help, turn back (Jas 5:19, 20), while others ‘shut their eyes to the light and forget their earlier cleansing from sins.’—2Pe 1:9.

Anything not in harmony with, hence contrary to, God’s personality, standards, ways, and will; anything marring one’s relationship with God. It may be in word (Job 2:10; Ps 39:1), in deed (doing wrong acts [Le 20:20; 2Co 12:21] or failing to do what should be done [Nu 9:13; Jas 4:17]), or in mind or heart attitude (Pr 21:4; compare also Ro 3:9-18; 2Pe 2:12-15). Lack of faith in God is a major sin, showing, as it does, distrust of him or lack of confidence in his ability to perform. (Heb 3:12, 13, 18, 19)

How can true prophets and false ones be identified?

True prophets make known their faith in Jesus, but more is required than claiming to preach in his name

1 John 4:1-3: “Test the inspired expressions to see whether they originate with God, because many false prophets have gone forth into the world. You gain the knowledge of the inspired expression from God by this: Every inspired expression that confesses Jesus Christ as having come in the flesh originates with God, but every inspired expression that does not confess Jesus does not originate with God.”

Matt. 7:21-23: “Not everyone saying to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter into the kingdom of the heavens, but the one doing the will of my Father who is in the heavens will. Many will say to me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name . . . ?’ And yet then I will confess to them: I never knew you! Get away from me, you workers of lawlessness.”

True prophets speak in the name of God, but merely claiming to represent him is not enough

Deut. 18:18-20: “A prophet I shall raise up for them from the midst of their brothers, like you [like Moses]; and I shall indeed put my words in his mouth, and he will certainly speak to them all that I shall command him. And it must occur that the man who will not listen to my words that he will speak in my name, I shall myself require an account from him. However, the prophet who presumes to speak in my name a word that I have not commanded him to speak or who speaks in the name of other gods, that prophet must die.” (Compare Jeremiah 14:14; 28:11, 15.)

Jesus said: “I do nothing of my own initiative; but just as the Father taught me I speak these things.” (John 8:28) He said: “I have come in the name of my Father.” (John 5:43) Jesus also said: “He that speaks of his own originality is seeking his own glory.”—John 7:18.

If any individuals or organizations claim to represent God but make it a practice to express their own opinions on matters, are they measuring up to this important qualification of a true prophet?

Ability to perform “great signs,” or “miracles,” is not necessarily proof of a true prophet

Matt. 24:24: “False Christs and false prophets will arise and will give great signs [“miracles,” TEV] and wonders so as to mislead, if possible, even the chosen ones.”

2 Thess. 2:9, 10: “The lawless one’s presence is according to the operation of Satan with every powerful work and lying signs and portents and with every unrighteous deception for those who are perishing, as a retribution because they did not accept the love of the truth that they might be saved.”

On the other hand, Moses performed miracles at God’s direction. (Ex. 4:1-9) God also empowered Jesus to perform miracles. (Acts 2:22) But more than the miracles gave evidence that God had truly sent them.

What true prophets foretell comes to pass, but they may not understand just when or how it will be

Dan. 12:9: “Go, Daniel, because the words are made secret and sealed up until the time of the end.”

1 Pet. 1:10, 11: “The prophets . . . kept on investigating what particular season or what sort of season the spirit in them was indicating concerning Christ when it was bearing witness beforehand about the sufferings for Christ and about the glories to follow these.”

1 Cor. 13:9, 10: “We have partial knowledge and we prophesy partially; but when that which is complete arrives, that which is partial will be done away with.”

Prov. 4:18: “The path of the righteous ones is like the bright light that is getting lighter and lighter until the day is firmly established.”

The apostles and other early Christian disciples had certain wrong expectations, but the Bible does not classify them with the “false prophets.”—See Luke 19:11; John 21:22, 23; Acts 1:6, 7.

Nathan the prophet encouraged King David to go ahead with what was in his heart regarding the building of a house for God’s worship. But later God told Nathan to inform David that he was not the one who would build it. God did not reject Nathan for what he had said earlier but continued to use him because he humbly corrected the matter when God made it plain to him.—1 Chron. 17:1-4, 15.

The pronouncements of a true prophet promote true worship and are in harmony with God’s revealed will

Deut. 13:1-4: “In case a prophet or a dreamer of a dream arises in your midst and does give you a sign or a portent, and the sign or the portent does come true of which he spoke to you, saying, ‘Let us walk after other gods, whom you have not known, and let us serve them,’ you must not listen to the words of that prophet or to the dreamer of that dream, because your God is testing you to know whether you are loving your God with all your heart and all your soul. After your God you should walk, and him you should fear, and his commandments you should keep, and to his voice you should listen, and him you should serve, and to him you should cling.”

Since the Bible says that “a friend of the world” is an enemy of God, are clergymen who urge their parishioners to get involved in the affairs of the world promoting true worship? (Jas. 4:4; 1 John 2:15-17) Jesus taught his followers to pray for God’s Kingdom, and the Bible cautions against putting one’s trust in earthling men, so are clergymen or political organizations that urge people to place their confidence in human rulership true prophets?—Matt. 6:9, 10; Ps. 146:3-6; compare Revelation 16:13, 14.

True prophets and the false can be recognized by the fruitage manifest in their lives and the lives of those who follow them

Matt. 7:15-20: “Be on the watch for the false prophets that come to you in sheep’s covering, but inside they are ravenous wolves. By their fruits you will recognize them. . . . Every good tree produces fine fruit, but every rotten tree produces worthless fruit . . . Really, then, by their fruits you will recognize those men.”

What characterizes their way of life? “The works of the flesh are . . . fornication, uncleanness, loose conduct, idolatry, practice of spiritism, enmities, strife, jealousy, fits of anger, contentions, divisions, sects, envies, drunken bouts, revelries, and things like these. . . . Those who practice such things will not inherit God’s kingdom. On the other hand, the fruitage of [God’s] spirit is love, joy, peace, long-suffering, kindness, goodness, faith, mildness, self-control.”—Gal. 5:19-23; see also 2 Peter 2:1-3.