₦airaland Forum

StarBoard: Argentina got to the finals.
There was a certain Javier Mascherano who held things tight in the middle of the park.

Not sure of your claims, bro.

I meant their forward line. Mascherano is a defensive midfielder. The attention on Messi should have been far less if Di Maria were fit. Worse was that fact that number 22 (always forgetting his name) got injured too.

ChristineC: 1914

Lol.

JayKayMaybachz: The aim is to talk bout Manchester United related ish and some football ish in general .... but you tend to take things extreme .... I ain't no hater....most times i admire ya post cos u make here lively ... Sometimes you go beyond boring.....I know you now Messi's advocate .... I careless .... Cos that dude had a very significant average performance during the mundial .... research all you want ... it ain't gonna move my stand .... most people see that Messi is been favoured by FIFA .... Same Zidane was

You sounded like I argue all be my self. Like there is no rival out there. This is why I said its obvious the argument didn't favour you. As for Messi, he had a great world cup. We had a team who played in the world cup final with only one man gang in their entire forward line, except Di Maria. And Di Maria didn't pay the last 2 1/2 games.

This is where we are different. I don't always rely on goals, assists etc to judge players. I look at what they did during matches. Messi didn't have a good support, the reason he was easily crowded out after going past one or two markers. I saw him laboring all alone.

JayKayMaybachz: Nna eh !! Elampiro you take delight in arguing without aims

I see.

When it doesn't favour you abi? FIFA said Messi was the best. Whoscored said same. Na una I go listen to? Or sentiments? Abeg abeg

Aim? What's even the aim of this thread?

coogar: why should i aggregate his ratings? each match should be analysed in it's own merits. aggre-what?



used penalties to boost his ratings & messi didn't? rodriguez scored 6 goals from the hole - how many penalties did he score in that 6 goals? he doesn't earn £300k/week but he played like a £800k/week striker.

The fact remains that Rodriguez worst rating was against Brazil in the Q/final. That was his only test among giants of the tournament. Despite helping himself with a penalty in regulation time, his rating dropped drastically. I wonder if he had met bigger giants in Argentina tough defence, German machine, Holland and Belgium. Rating 6.5.

coogar: his rating against uruguay was better than greece & ivory coast. you told us the performance of all the star players decreased as the tournament went on. your statistics have showed you up as a liar.

uruguay are better than belgium & argentina. holland & germany don't play like stoke - like brazil did against columbia. scolari became tony pulis & told his players to kick lumps out of rodriguez. i was happy columbia went down & dragged neymar(brazil's hope) with them.

* Aggregate his 3 matches in group stage then compared with the aggregate of knockout and see the difference. All big players ratings dropped as the tournament progressed. Robben scored 6.6 against Argentina. Even RVP, etc were dropping and dropping. These players started at from around 9.0 to 10. Look at where they ended after a brutal end.

* Rodriquez even used penalty to boost his ratings. Roben for instance could have reached 8.51 to 8.53 had he taken those penalties he won.



I am not in the mood. I am busy.

^^^

Many arguments up there already dealt with. No need to run pages.

Haahahaha. How many free kicks and all that did Rooney score in 2012/13? Virtually all his goals were from open play, and he played only in hole, wing and CM. Last season he scored virtually all his goals from open play in the number 9. From the hole, he scored only 2 free kicks.


Abeg abeg, I leave this argument till weekend. Fire for fire.

^^^

Many arguments up there already dealt with. No need to run pages.

Rodriguez.

1. vs Greece 8.5
2. vs Iv ory Coast 8.2
3. vs Japan 9.4
4. vs Uruguay 8.4
5. vs Brazil 7.6

How come his worst rating was in the quater final? What if he had played against Belgium or Holland or Germany or Argentina? He sure would have fallen below 8 point.








*** Despite using penalty to boost his stat against Brazil. Robben for instance won two penalties bu did not take them. He could have ended at 8.51 to 8.53.

coogar: why should i go to the best XI chart when they have approximated the points into 1 decimal place.

you should go to the comprehensive list and see how a number-10 that started only 4 games scored 6 goals. if it was rooney, we would be hearing excuses that someone in the hole cannot score goals.

.

I didn't have time to start going into small details. I might look at whosacored properly tonight.

* Rooney still remains one of the number 10 with highest goals return from the hole and wing. From the number 9 he has a very outstanding record, even in our poorest season.


Most important thing is that I have realized Messi is a magician, a genius and a king.

coogar: stop lying....
whoscored has it as....

messi - 8.52
james - 8.40
robben - 8.37

rodriguez had scored in every game even against brazil. there's 100% guarantee he would have scored in the semis & the final had his team gone all the way.

others tailed off points wise cos they stopped scoring all of a sudden. rodriguez was by far the best player in the tournament. every pundit at the world cup agreed with that & even diego has come out to say messi's golden ball was a fraud!

Ukwu!!!

What is the lie here? Is Messi not the best in accordance to the rating?

Go to the team XI chart, it's 8.5, 8.4, 8.4 respectively. it was rounded up.

Rodriguez surely would have dropped further. All the best players kept dropping as the game progressed. From 9+ they started coming down to 8.7 ......

Anyway,
World cup 2014 official best player messi.
Whoscored best player Messi.

If scoring a goal in crucial stage of a tournament wins the best player, then why don't we just say Gotze or Klose should have been given the golden ball?


*** There were no players like Robben and Messi in the world cup.

StarBoard: But ratings are compiled from stats, no?
And match stats aren't just two or three as you would want us to believe.

But even you will have to admit that Messi was almost non-existent from the knock-out stages. Someone who didn't score in the crucial parts of the world cup cannot be the best player in the tournament.
As Simple as that.

That's what I am saying. Whoscored uses 200 match stats/parameters (goals, assists, CCC created, key passes, accurate crossing, dribbles, aerial due won, tackles won, possession lost, 50-50 balls won/lost, and hundreds more to arrive at that rating. It's comprehensive enough.

As for whether he scored a knockout goal or not. Here lies the difference, I don't judge players by those stats alone. Messi and Robben were clearly the best from 2nd round to final. Without Messi, Argentina would be worse than England.

Frank and Cecilia.

StarBoard: elampiro.
Be consistent.

The other day we were arguing about stats and the Germany/Algeria game.
You refused to believe my stand that Germany was not lucky when I showed you the stats.

Now you go and bring in opta to validate a point that we all know is false.
How come you want to use stats to justify a position on one hand and dismiss the use of stats in another when it doesn't suit your original argument?

There is a big difference. This is a rating and not selected stat.

1. This is a collection of over 200 stats of what could happen to a player on the pitch to make a rating or ranking. Not a selection of two or three stats

2. This is also different in the sense that we are talking of individual players here.






3. I did not start the stat comparison on this topic. Since last nite we were being told how some players had hundreds of shots on target. I was looking at the general play.

Abeg abeg abeg.

I Just looked at whoscored/opta best 11.

Messi 8.5
Robben 8.4
Rodriquez 8.4

All the players rating dropped significantly at every sage of the tournament. The last time I checked was after the quarter finals. (Or was it 2nd round?). This means Rodriguez rating should have fallen further as the tournament went into Semis, if he were still around.

Now, what a coincidence? This is a confirmation. Only Robben can lay claim 'cos he played the difficult matches. When the super stars and biggest teams met.

ChristineC: @ least you are taking a guess
Everyone can't be existing by 1914

You are so right. But was that suppose to be 1994?

homesteady: www.nairaland.com/attachments/1547366_1559647_330366637121688_7302860367518822263_n_jpge2b555883cb8c0ecd4f2b4474b0ebcbf

Finito! This sums it all up.

I'm convinced Zidane was the highest goal scorer, highest assist provider and most shots on target in 2006... In the dream of those guys here. I have told people that football is more than these things. Otherwise the likes of Inzaghi, Van Nistelrooy, Iineker, Shearer should have won all the Ballon D'ors. RVP, Drogba, Rooney and Berbatov should have been voted EPL player of the season the two seasons Bale won it.

* I suspect too someone has now opened the eyes of Maradona. The man is now obviously intimidated by Messi rise and rise. Next they go to Copa America. Argentina the clear favourite now.



I beg, I no get time for the medegefede those guys dey yan. World cup is over. But I must find time to look at what whoscored.com said in many parameters.

Argentina scored 7 goals in the world cup, Messi got 4 of those goals and assisted 1. Without his goals, Argentina would not get past the group. Wihout his magic, they could have been disgraced by Switzerland. He was the fear factor that held opponents back in the Q&S fnals as well as final. Without him, Argentina would be worse than England. The only two players who offered quality attacking partnership got injured- Di Maria and that number 22 guy.




Enuf said on this.

A40: Elamps baba we have witnessed Europe destroy South America again this time on South American soil what do you have to say about this?

I thought humidity wouldn't allow such?

Any way, it's one of those things. But South American producing best talents still. Messi, Neymar and Rodriguez.

homesteady: oga didn't you see how Messi held off three people at the start of the play. Why do you think Higuain
was wide open?

My brother. Messi won me over with this world cup. I used to be his critic. I was applauding every move he made today. He let's you know he wants to dribble you, and yet dribbles you like you were a baby. It's magical.

He made two moves today. Only chekere thing to score or give assist from those beautiful moves.

homesteady: yea he had a very ordinary worldcup and he created the most chances (23) and completed
the most dribbles (46) in the tournament!

Wow! 23 world cup chances created in 6 games? 46 dribbles in 6 games. Half of what EPL best playmakers and dribblers did in a whole season.

Hazard had over a hundred dribbles last season. Sterling and Silva were around 90. Chances created were on a similar comparison.

I have to log on to whoscored.com tomorrow. FIFA got it right after all.

Messi won the FIFA best. FIFA is right. It was straight between Robben and Messi for those who are objective. Messi was the outstanding player tonight trying to single handedly create a victory.

Many of you are attacking me at same time and getting me tired and confused. Many of your criteria are baseless in selecting world best. Goals stat, shot on target, etc. Today match showed their was one player who could go past two players- Messi. If scouts were here from another planet for the first time, Messi would be bought first. If only there was a Di Maria to help out. The moment that number 22 got injured, it was hard from the midfield.

If goals or goals per match were to be used. Enna Valencia would be among top 10. Oleg Salenko would be a world cup golden ball winner. Inzaghi and Nistelroy would be Ballon D'or winners, even Lineker.

Messi won the FIFA best. FIFA is right. It was straight between Robben and Messi for those who are objective. Messi was the outstanding player tonight trying to single handed create a victory.

Many of you are attacking me at same time and getting me tired and confused. Many of your criteria are baseless in selecting world best. Goals stat, shot on target, etc. Today match showed their was one player who could go past two players- Messi. If scouts were here from another planet for the first time, Messi would be bought first. If only there was a Di Maria to help out. The moment that number 22 got injured, it was hard from the midfield.

If goals or goals per match were to be used. Enna Valencia would be among top 10. Oleg Salenko would be a world cup golden ball winner. Inzaghi and Nistelroy would be Ballon D'or winners, even Lineker.

dayokanu: What did Messi do vs Belgium? He was useless from quarter finals till final

if its by quality of goals then Rodriguez, Cahill Van Persie and Robben are the ones

Not scoring vs Iran, Bosnia and Nigeria

In 2010 Forlan scored vs Germany, Holland the only big nations he played against

I am beginning to think that many of you guys didn't watch these matches. Messi useless against Belgium? Useless today? You guys don't know how to judge a good player.

dayokanu: Overall play? How many assists did Messi have? How many shots on target did he have in the knockout stage?

This is not how football is judged. This thread is screwed with stats. Shots on target ke Omg!

If we were to judge for instance, we could say that the Ecuadorian should be in top 10 having scored 3 goals in 3 games.

afrodoc: As usual you are the one being sentimental.
Robben,Rodriguez and Muller at least played better than Messi in this tournament.

Messi is the best in the world we know that.....but in this world cup he was a flat track bully (apologies to Berbatov )
He scored against football nobodies but at crunch time when his country needed him against the big boys he failed again....and again....and again

If it's about goals and the team you scored against, then Folan wouldn't be the best in 2010. Except you didn't watch the matches, Messi was one of the top two. Did he not even singlehandly kill Belgium? No one talks about that world class assist after he skipped past two players or so.

Dhelake: So MVP are now dashed out on the basis of the best goals?? A 25yard shot against 43rd ranked Iran? A Brace against 44th Ranked Nigeria and a goal against Bosnia?? compared to Muller's hatrick against 4th ranked Portugal, a goal against USA and the opener against Brazil, Muller even had two more assists than him

That's just a restriction to goals. In terms of overall play, Messi was a zillion miles ahead.

dayokanu: Muller 5 goals 4 assists Let Messi catch that. Only scored vs 3rd rate football countries

It's just quantity. Even this stat beats Robben's goals. It terms of quality of play, Messi comes behind Robben.

afrodoc: Robben

Rodriguez

Muller

Messi's worst goal is better Muller's best goal. Pls let's not apply sentiments, Messi's was second on individual effort, behind Robben.

In reference to best player award.

It terms of individual work rate before netting goals, I give it to Robben and Messi. Even Messi's assist was world class.

1. Messi'sa goals vs Bosnia, a typical Lionel Messi's goals as he would for Barca. Run across payers outsiide the box and fire in from 25 yards or so. Same against Iran. Scored a free kick against Enyeama. Against Switzerland, he dribble past one or two players to provide Di Maria an assist. Had a very great game against Belgium. Did well tonight.

Robben was however, the king of individual brilliance.

coogar: and i am sure that someone is maradona's wife or daughter who happens to be your neighbour in edo state.

Argentina Coach Diego Maradona: Lionel Messi Is Better Than I Was At World Cup '86
May 24, 2010 04:15:00


Maradona was the outstanding player of the tournament 24 years ago and has now stated that he has told Messi to follow in his footsteps by leading Argentina to glory in South Africa.

"Messi is better than me at World Cup '86. He's the best player in the world and better by far compared to others. In 86, in Mexico, I did it with the ball, I grew up and my team-mates followed. Now I have explained the same to Leo to do it in South Africa and he has understood," Maradona is quoted as saying by Sport before adding that he wants everything to go through Messi at the finals next month.

Related
http://www.goal.com/en/news/1863/world-cup-2010/2010/05/24/1939576/argentina-coach-diego-maradona-lionel-messi-is-better-than-i-was-

...........
Also reported by ESPN. However, Maradona in 2013 said he is the best from Argentina.

Problem with talking too much.

dayokanu: DEUTSCHLAND WELT MEISTER

GERMANY WORLD CHAMPIONS

O boy wake up. You are a Nigeran. Your root na for where so? Hmmm........... Owo?

RuuDie: Lets all be fair and send criticism to where it should... Messi knows himself and could have turned down the golden ball if possible - it clearly wasn't what he wanted or played for.

FIFA politics. Commentators have been saying Robben is easily the best. FIFA paving the way for 2015 Ballon D'or. Now Robben is robbed a precious life time prize. Too bad!