₦airaland Forum

SailorXY: ^^ that's the problem, you also expect Chicharito to prove he can score more than RvP & Rooney from the bench role. Why is Rooney immune to bench time?? Even on current form will he merit a start in Man Utd's attack? I'm not a fan of numbers, Rooney's performance doesn't correspond to the wages he receives, simple as! Any other forward signing by Moyes & that's the end of Wayne in United's colors. I heard Welbeck will be sent on loan to Spurs? Well...

Rooney was one of our six best players last season. How does that make him seat on the bench? Rooney is poor as compared with his set standard, not in comparison with Chicha or Welbeck or Kagawa. Rooney got 12 goals and 10 assist from his deep and multiple roles. If he had played as the lead striker he could have hit over 25. But who would have done all the work he did in the other deep positions? He wouldn't get the support 'cos he is the 'lifter'. You have to understand his role in United to appreciate his worth and contribution. I see Rooney, Iniester and Robben holding the coordinating role for their teams, yet Rooney plays with more lower quality midfield mates.

As for wages or salaries, this is a different thing altogether. You cannot know it more than the club trying to keep him at all cost.

@SailorXY, take a look at this too. 4-4-2 wasn't SAF main formation.

Manchester United: Flexibility secured title, says Robbie Savage

 
In his regular BBC Sport column on football tactics, Robbie Savage takes a closer look at the way Manchester United won their 20th league title.

Summer signing Robin van Persie and his goals clearly played a huge part in United's success but, for me, their triumph was down to their whole squad rather than their manager Sir Alex Ferguson relying on an individual or the same star players every single week.

The strength in depth that Ferguson has, and the adaptability of his players, allows him to change his formation and approach depending on the opposition.



His main title rivals Manchester City do not have that luxury or enough variety in their play, as they found out to their cost.

City got the better of United when they met at the beginning of April but too many times against the lesser sides in the Premier League, City boss Roberto Mancini did not have a Plan B. That was not a problem for Ferguson.

Ferguson is able to adapt his tactics and formation to suit the opposition

Strong squad equals flexible formations

Ferguson's first Premier League titles in the 1990s were built around a 4-4-2 formation. Things have moved on in modern football since then but, crucially, so has he. In the past few years he has played a variety of formations, and this season was no different.

Continue reading the main story

“

Over the course of the season Ferguson showed his versatility, and also his bravery with his tactics

During the course of the campaign he showed his adaptability, and also his bravery with his tactics.

Seeing United's wingers bombing forward in some ways remains United's trademark because Ferguson has retained such an attacking style of play.

But he has also used a 4-4-2 shape to stop other teams, such as in January's win over Liverpool at Old Trafford when he pushed his wide men Shinji Kagawa and Ashley Young high up the pitch to press Liverpool and stop them playing their way out of defence.

”

Players like Kagawa and Danny Welbeck are good examples of the kind of versatile players Ferguson can call upon when he wants to change the attacking shape of his side.

Kagawa is comfortable operating in the hole behind the main striker or on the left in a 4-2-3-1 or 4-3-3 shape. It's the same with Welbeck, who can be that out-and-out striker or play out on the flanks. Van Persie and Wayne Rooney, too, interchange positions.

Diamonds are not forever

Perhaps the best example of Ferguson's flexibility has been when he has played a 4-4-2 formation and not used any real width at all.



Rooney often drops very deep but earlier in the season he played at the tip of a midfield diamond and behind two strikers, most notably in a 3-0 win over Newcastle in October when Welbeck and Van Persie led the attack.

Tom Cleverley and Kagawa started just behind Rooney, with Michael Carrick at the base of the diamond.

That tight shape allowed United to dominate possession at the start of the game and score two early goals, but they did not keep playing that way when Newcastle countered by putting an extra man in their midfield.

Ferguson responded by bringing on a winger, Antonio Valencia, to play out wide in the second half to counter Newcastle's threat down that flank.

So he can alter things during games but he is also willing and able to set up his side to stop other teams from the start, as well as to try to attack them.

One example came when he used Phil Jones to man-mark Marouane Fellaini when Everton came to Old Trafford.

Rooney has played in a number of positions

But his biggest call came when he left one of his best players out for a game that has defined United's season - the second leg of their Champions League quarter-final against Real Madrid.

Continue reading the main story

“

A lot of people are saying this is not the best United team, but the way they won the title suggests they deserve more credit

He dropped Rooney for players who would contribute more defensively and lined United up in a 4-2-3-1 that was squeezing the life out of Real until Nani was sent off.

That red card demonstrates the fine line between success and failure. A lot of people are saying this is not the best United team, but the way they won the title suggests they deserve more credit.

Yes, you can point to their early exit in Europe but I think they would have won that Real tie with 11 men because they were in complete control. They were unlucky and progress then would have put their whole season in a different light.

”

The stats show that, in the Premier League, United have had marginally less possession than last season, played fewer crosses per game, and had fewer shots. But their goals to shots ratio is up, and they have allowed their opponents fewer shots.

The most important statistic, however, is their win ratio of 79.4% - the best of any of their 20 top-flight triumphs, More than ever before, they have done whatever it has taken to win games.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/22280760

@SailorXY, I just checked too, Rooney played several roles under Fabio Capelo's four different formation I saw online. He didn't have to compete with Peter Crouch or Defoe in any formation. He was either chosen ahead of them to lead the attack or dropped to the deeper roles. So no matter the formation or pattern, he and RVP will get positions first.

SailorXY: You've kept going on & on as to how RvP is useless outside the lead role position, which everyone knows is not true. We have seen him maraud
ing the pitch even in defensive positions, such is his overall usefulness... I still maintain that if the formation is a 4-4-2, then its definite that Rooney-RvP will take the fore. Now, the world is moving to a 4-2-3-1 formation which look like what Moyes will adopt, Rooney & RvP has to compete! It is that simple really. Depending on the incoming acquisitions, Kagawa should take his rightful place on the pitch. Fergie has been making plans for moving with the formation trend in world football, let's not delude ourselves, hence the signing of Kagawa. An opportunity to sign RvP arose and he took it, obviously with the intent of moving on Rooney. Don't think managers take a player questioning the ambition of their clubs lightly, players are such powerful influences these days, managers get sacked when the start unsettling the team
with utterances.

JS park was a very active member of the champions league winning team, as a matter of fact, he was as influential as Wayne Rooney in the next campaign where Manchester United were runners-up to Barcelona! Chicharito will get as much goals playing as a top striker over the course of a season as RvP will get, & more than Wayne Rooney. We all bear witness of development in Chicharito's overall game play since his arrival at this club. He is no longer just a poacher, in the games he had, I observed he got better control & passing accuracy. He has even improved his ball retention skills and balance, while maintaining his natural killer instincts. Who said the same can't happen for Kagawa, who is a better dribbler than Rooney, has a better killer pass around the edge of the box, same pace as Rooney. Apart from body balance & experience, which will come with time inevitably, I see no much-touted edge Rooney possess over Kagawa in the number 10 role, again with the proper midfield set-up

I can do a whole long writing to try and counter your points but it's ot so necessarily. It's like you just don't like Wayne Rooney. You keep mentioning right midfield for Kagawa, so why shouldn't the midfield be improved for Rooney? You at a point tried to prove JS Park did just as much as Rooney. That's ridiculous. Lastly, whatever formation is used, Rooney will be picked ahead of anyone in any frontline position should he stay. The coaches will see their performance both on training ground and matches next season. I doubt if Chicha can even beat RVP and Rooney in goal scoring. RVP and Rooney have been EPL highest scorers in the past 5 or 6 years. Chicha couldn't build on his first season as we saw last season, although he showed improvement this season, he will have to prove to us we can rely on him all season and in all situations.

Note the difference between your argument and mine: you base yours on what to expect and mine on the reality, that is current performance. Some players may never attain their potentials. Remember players like Gibson, Park, Flecher, Machaida, Tosic, Obertan,etc

SailorXY: Kagawa will not be consistent when he keeps being shunted from No. 10 to LW. He may not have been able to win enough 50-50, but we know these guys eat rice & noodles! J S Park got nicknamed "3-lunged Park" cuz of his tireless running in the heart of United's midfield, how was his first season like?? Homie kept tumbling all around the pitch over nothing... The same was exact story for Evra! Kagawa doesn't have a proper base in midfield like he had in Dortmund, the pattern was definitely set-up for him to struggle. After the signing of Kagawa, fans expected Fergie to go all out & complete the set up, but he left it half made which is clearly no fault of our Japanese import. If Wayne Rooney feel he cannot dislodge van Persie in the lead role, then he was right to ask for a transfer & his wish should be honored as far as I am concerned. We don't even need a replacement with Chicharito waiting & working hard in the team, but if we are having another world class forward then no one will object. With a proper base in the defensive midfield for Kagawa, you will be surprised as to what the lad can bring to this team, & he can only benefit with an experienced first season behind him. Ask Lewandowski

Wayne Rooney and RVP should never compete for the number 9 or lead role under a sound coach. RVP is a 'second class citizen' outside his top striking role whereas Rooney can function in multiple roles in our forward. So it's only logical that RVP is allowed to play the lead 'cos he will be almost useless if he should drop behind.

On the Kagawa issue. JS Park was never a dominant or an all round player, he was more of a siuational player. That is the same way I see Chicharito. There are some matches or situations their services were needed and they did well. In such situations the tactics were adjusted to suit their presence 'cos they had limitations. Like more of tactical players. For now I can't even place Kagawa. He should have at least performed in whatever role he was given, he couldn't even live up to average in the supposed number 10 position. If it is to compare or displace Rooney, I doubt if that can ever happen. I think he will end up being a tactical player because some EPL teams are too pacing and physical for his kind.

1025: uncle, a point wins a tournament. when a team criminally gets a point, it can put them in an advantageous position. if a team looses a particular game, they can be discouraged.
what we are discussing here are two issues viz; epl officiating and man u relationship with epl officials.
if i may ask u, WHAT DID U SAY THE DAY NANI WAS SENT OFF AGAINST MADRID? JUST BE CANDID AND WE WILL TAKE IT FROM THERE.

Your hate for Man United has blinded you to see the numerous benefits City gained from referees this season particularly from Mark Dean. Are you going to say Dean is a Man City fan? Are you going to say City should have finished 7th? So if you want to be fair or balance things out, you should think City, Arsenal also got Psychological boost. Then what about decisions against teams? We had matches where RVP goals were misread as offside, penalties not awarded, etc. All these things even themselves out at the end of the day. The reason people focus o Man U is because they are the best and everyone wants them fail, so they watchout for excuses. Same with Barca.

As for Nani's red card, you cannot compare a knockout match with a marathon league. If United had more matches in the UCL, there wouldn't have been noise.

1025: hahahahahahaha, it is not going to be of ur making if i will quote u or not in future. i know the only way to be realistic is to agree on whatever u say. uncle, epl should not be like nigerian elections where results are seen before elections. i never said chelsea was going to win the league or not because there were 20 teams in the tourne. all i am saying is, u have good players who are under utilized. why? because much of the works were done by the refs. talking about been realistic, are u saying the officiating in epl this past season was any where close to good?
is not about me rather is about the football world and what they are seeing and saying. in soccer, we all agree to human errors that fly in once in a while but that is not the case with two particular refs know with their activities with a particular club for their "HUMAN ERROR" that have always been one sided.
in epl, there are clear indications that games are won and lost by refs. look at this one; http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2309493/Referee-Howard-Webb-exiled-Colchester-string-gaffes-Tyne-Wear-derby.html.
that is coming from a british press and not nigerian as to be linked to me.

the day chelsea got the shame from clarttenberg, i was with a friend who is also a man u fan. when torres was sent off, he told me he was leaving that sending off torress made no sense and mind u, ivanovic was already gone. the next game of man u, the pic below shows one of the banners man u fans came to stadium with. and you can read that up here;
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2012/11/01/manchester-united-fans-clattenburg_n_2055009.html
another interesting topic u may like to read about on;
http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/premier-league/match-report-mark-clattenburg-provides-a-cruel-twist-to-pulsating-encounter-between-chelsea-and-manchester-united-8229797.html


i know even with all these references, i won't make sense to u but i am only trying to be realistic as you requested.
funny enough, these games are not watched only in nigeria but the world all over. have u asked urself, how many important games were handled by english officials this past season or do u think uefa don't look at ur domestic performances before selecting u?
after watching games, i use my internet to see if what i think about a particular game occur to someone else and i don't base my judgements on nigerian speakers most times.
football is a game of records, backed by facts and figures. wear ur realistic uniform and link me to pages on internet like i have done to u now to back ur position on this issues.
God bless u.

Let me take the argument from you angle. How many matches did Webb and Clatterbeng referee in United matches last season? How many were controversial?

[quote author=Mr_TA]Are you kidding? How many of those players pulled any trees when they arrived? Certainly not silva who took time to adjust, rvp at arsenal? Bale at spurs in his first season? Even nasri was mostly anonymous in his first season.[/quote]Nasri and Sylva announced themselves well on their arrival at City. RVP at Man United, his second major club. We are talking os already developed players and not teenagers.

chrisley024: Ramires and Mata made no wave in their 1st seasons in EPL.

Ramires instantly announced his arrival to EPL with a commanding play. I kept asking 'who is this guy?'

He played 29 matches with 1941 of playing time his fist season. That is 21 EPL matches.

1025: make God bless u for including such names as Hazard, oscar and ramires in ur list of players making waves even in their first season. please next time, add mata.

for the singular reason that whether they play well or not, they will win discourage great players from doing well. the results may not come for man u next season but i tell u, most of their players will play the games of their lives because now, na wetin u play u go get.
the refs will work for man u no doubt but when fergie is there, the case will be different.
if the players and team try what they played last season, top 4 will be far from them.
in the man u team, great players like Rooney, van persie, young, chicharito and a whole lot of them must be at their best with few additions to be a power house this coming season.
abeg, make una no vex, find a way to address this ref issues as it is becoming too obvious this time.

When are you going to mature from this your referees narrow minded conspiracy? Just try and prove to me in one write up how United shouldn't have won the league as you claim. Do you realised United won the league with 4 matches left and Chelsea had to wait till last day to know their UCL's fate? Don't quote me again if you are not going to be realistic.

SailorXY: ^^so what you mean is that Kagawa should be benched or what? Tell me more about de Gea "bossed his position in his first season"? Or Patrice Evra or Nemanja Vidic for that matter! A guy was constantly played off position to accommodate another asking for a transfer & you "expect him to boss his position from out of position"

Kagawa played his position in many matches and he couldn't cope with the pace and power of the EPL. He hardly wins 50-50 balls against opponents, if the match is physical he is not seen, if the match is fast paced he is not seen.

As for your claim he played out of position, go and check the times he played with Rooney and you will be shocked it was Rooney who was sacrificed. For instance, in Madrid Rooney played far deep in the middle to shield Raphael and Kagawa played up front. Kagawa was easily our worst man of the night despite given the forward role.There are more instances where Rooney played behind him.

The last I checked, Kagawa was not played as a defender. Good players are capable of adapting. We have seen Rooney, Nani, Welbeck and Giggs adapted well to different roles.

Please we need a strong, mobile, two feet midfielder who can also hold and drive the ball. The only way we wouldn't need any is if Anderson and Cleverly could hit the kind of pairing form we saw early last season. But we can't be gambling again.

In the same vain, any expectation that Kagawa will fill gaps is another gamble. Most players who boss their positions immediately make statements on the first season they arrive. Toure, Sylva, Hazard, Oscar, Bale, Carrick, Raphael, RVP, Valencia, Nasri, Ramires, etc. They perform such that the coachhas no option than to play them. Kagawa is not a teenager we are hopin to mature, and Bundesliga is not Premier League.

The planning for next season should be based on real strong players and not expectations.

chrisley024: Chelsea now considering a move 4 Lewi!

We don't need him at all. Besides he might flop in EPL.

montelik: How about some much needed central midfielders before Ronaldo, Bale, Lewandoski or other luxury signings?

I am very sure Moyes will address that even if it was never in the plan of SAF.

deols: There must be a financial reason to keep it there.

Not financial, the real reason should be promotion. They are trying to gradually sell it to every part of the world to gain acceptance. Otherwise many western countries want to host it.

1. Ferdy via twitter mentioned surprises to come on the day of his testimonial match.

2. He responded via facebook to Ronaldo today in coded terms known to two of them only as pals do.

Now United fans are reading a million and one meaning to these messages. What surprises to be revealed? The signings?

montelik: It also not our any other clubs fault that CR7 is desperately trying to escape from his "dream" turned nightmare.

What goes around comes around.

A real nightmare . The Spanish press, referees and FA made life unbearable for Mourinho and Ronaldo. Even some team mates had divided minds. Casilas voted Ramos ahead of Ronaldo for the world best despite it was clear Ramos was not a strong contender. He preferred to waste his vote to giving it to Ronaldo.

Now see how the whole of Spain is in a sober mood as the spark in their football is being taken away. Towards the tail end of the season I saw referees unnecessarily trying to be nice to Ronaldo and conversing with him. Something they had not done before since Ronaldo and Mourinho led a bitter rivalry against the Guardiola, Messi and the Barca camp.

Should Ronaldo decide to leave Spain, you can be sure that the Classicos will lose its beauty and wide followership. The heat and fire will be gone from the El Classicos for many years, only smoke will be left even if Bale signed.

Fussbot: I saw it too...let's just wait and see what happens!

Yes o. The more you look the less you see.

I just saw a tweet from Ronaldo -'All the news about my renewal with Real Madrid are false.'

It's also on his facebook wall.

Hahahaha, this guy is dealing a hell to Madrid.


Everyone is writing come back home to Manchester United.

boron10: Lagos is about the only civilized place in the whole of Africa. Shit like this can't happen in Lagos State

Which Lagos? Lagos I have seen several incidents of alleged thieves burnt alive with tires.

What is this magic sim stuff everywhere since 3 months? Who has the info? I need it as a text or mail.

These late goals are causing nervousness. In the last match with Malawi, Nigeria should attack them and go for early goals. Keeping it late means the opponent will begin to have a belief they can do something with some threats.

Debroslink: LONG THING. DEY DULL URSEF. U NEVA HEAR OF MTN, ETISALAT AND GLO MAGIC SIMS PLUS AIRTEL UNLIMITED BIS?

How can I get this?

1025: my brother, i really wanted nigeria out of that game. it was frustrating been a nigerian that day. how in a very rich country and self acclaimed giant of africa, we could not watch african cup of nations and we could not watch nigerian games. in fact, if i have my ways, let caf and fifa ban nigeria from these games. having said that, u can take me serious now. i have had the opportunity to be in someother countries both here in africa and beyond, who else takes this kind of rubbish from the govt apart from us? in ivory coast, war was settled with football. who on earth does not watch the game these days? what else does nigerians benefit from apart from football. abeg, no take me go there.

DSTV is blank on all Africa qualification matches but they show every other one. I don't know which TV has the right or what the problem really is. It's so bad.

A deal or speculation?
.....

Manchester United and Benfica have come to a ‘gentleman’s agreement’ over the transfer of defender Ezequiel Garay.

A deal appears to have been struck for Garay to move to Old Trafford this summer, and according to reports in Portugal, United and Benfica have sealed a deal for Garay to move to Old Trafford for €20m (£17m), giving new manager David Moyes some much-needed improvement to his centre-back options.

Over the past few seasons central defender Garay has become a mainstay in an impressive Benfica side, making 41 appearances last season.

United are yet to comment on any potential deal for Garay despite heavy speculation on the continent. (Source: Daily Express)

dayokanu: Robben would play one more season for Bayern and leave for final pay check and retirement

Ribery would play for Bayern till retirement and leave for some less demanding football

Nani in the next 2 yrs would have become the new age Quaresma full of promise and talent, occasional flashes but never consistent enough to hit the heights of European football
remember he would be 27 this yr the age players are usually at their peak and he still doesnt have a clue

Some yrs back he was seen as the the Ronaldo succesor, Some even argued he is more rounded and talented but nowadays he sits on the bench for one legged Valencia, and Ashley Young He might end up at Gala, Zenit or Porto

There was a certain Brazilian with great potentials and high expectations, a guy called Robinho. It looks like he was going to rule the world but now he is not in he limelight anymore. Nani should be careful not to end up like him. From the analysis so far, it looks like Nani might never hit what we expect of him.

Statistics here makes it look like I have an unusually high expectation of Nani that might never come true. I am not a big fan of statistics though. So may be, may be he can give a super three years and fall to an average thereafter.

dayokanu: Of those 48 games Nani started in 37 of them

Champions League

Nani in Man Utd 3200minutes 3 goals 11 assists
Ribery in Bayern 3472 minutes 11 goals 21 assists
Robben in Bayern 2246minutes 12 goals 6 assists


Any more questions?

Yes. What do you think about the future of these players? What are we to expect of them in the future?

1025: uncle, players are judged on current forms and not what happened in 1967. it is either nani is not good enough or fergie was having problems with his thinking machine.
pls make a choice.

How do you expect me to take your opinion and contribution seriously now when on the Keyan vs Nigeria thread you were behind Keyan to beat Nigeria. On what form did you base that contribution?

Anyway, you should know tha we are looking at three players comparing what they have been doing and what they can still do.

coogar: stüpid stats.....
yes, let's compare nani to robben/ribery(notorious penalty takers for bayern). then lets compare nani who has more cameo appearances than starts to robben/ribery that had more time on the pitch to contribute....

the minutes on the pitch would tell a different story. i can bet 80% of those 48 appearances in europe were cameo appearances of 5-10 mins.

12/13
263 mins - nani
733 mins - robben
845 mins - ribery

11/12
403 mins - nani
668 mins - robben
1021 mins - ribery

i don't even need to plumb deeper as the further down i go, the more the margin of time spent on the pitch in europe gets wider. only fools hang on to "appearances", the smart people look at the minute spent!

Coogar, please help us with more of Nani's UCL playing time down to 2007/8 season. I really want to know how he has contributed to United or how much he has been used.

Meanwhile the two seasons you gave were when United went out early in the competition. The earlier seasons will give us better opinion of Nani's playing time in the UCL.

dademola: i can only imagine wot wld hav happened if robben was just a lil less selfish and if his final balls were just a lil bit betta......

Over confidence in his abilities makes him selfish. His final ball is weak compared to what he does in the normal play. Overall he his way of play help his team massively. He is not Messi or Ronaldo. He is not even Iniester, but he has some unique strength which no one else has. May be he and Bale play same kind of football with a little difference. The difference is that Robben is able to retain possession more while unsettling his markers, this creates room for his mates to have options in crisscrossing an opposing defence line. Bale strength is more of an individual destructive mission on his power run ino the opponents area.

Most great players are selfish because they believe the can do it more than anyone else. It has its negatives and its positives. As a coach, sometimes you allow certain players to express themselves. If Nani is given the opportunity to express himself he will come close to being a Ronaldo. You only need to look at the freedom Neyman has. Let them perfect their skills to enable them destroy and tear defnce for you.

SailorXY: Nani 3 champions league goals in his United career? even Vidic & Evra has more than that

Nani only needs to have self believe, he can do it. I really can't understand why he is not living up to his potentials. In the same match referred to above, Nani became United only hope after injury made Rooney quit and Raphael sent off. Nnai was the only man threatening Bayern and he almost got a late goal from a massive solo run and dribbling in the final minutes of the match. He made a great run from the centre line on the left wing down to the goal keeper and had past everyone else but he squandered the great chance on one on one with the goalkeeper. These are the things Ronaldo does that made him great.

Nani needs to add goals to his play. He has to put extra hours to practising crosses, free kicks, heading and overall goal scoring skills. I understand he started playing football at age 7, that was pretty late and it surely had an effect in his game development in later years.

dayokanu: Champions league

Nani for Manchester United 48 games 3 goals 11 assists

Ribery for Bayern Munich 43 games 11 goals 21 assists

Robben for Bayern Munich 29 games 12 goals 6 assists

Stats dont lie

What does this show me? Respect for Robben. I so much love the way he plays and unsettle opponents. Most times I don't look at statistics because it doesn't tell it all. For Robben to have this in addition to his style of play and performance, I respect him the more.