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European Football (EPL, UEFA, La Liga) › Re: Official Manchester United Fan Thread:''20 Times EPL Champion by elampiro(m): 10:58pm On Mar 14, 2013*

Coogar, you said Van Dan Ser conceded e everything that went to his left? OMG!

I am beginning to wonder if you watch United matches. Have you forgotten suddenly his numerous great saves? One of his best saves was on his left. Chelsea Vs Machester United 2011 UCL semi final. Van Dan Ser suspended in the air for some seconds to ensure he got a tip on the curled shot to his left.

You are fabricating points to support your argument. I won't argue with you again.

This was a much talked about save. How did you miss this?

European Football (EPL, UEFA, La Liga) › Re: Official Manchester United Fan Thread:''20 Times EPL Champion by elampiro(m): 10:10pm On Mar 14, 2013

coogar: what are you talking about? goalkeepers and outfield players are the same in terms of strengths and weaknesses! every goalkeeper has a weakness. van der sar has a unique weakness in diving to his left! he concedes every shot aimed to his left hand side.

all the penalty kicks planted by chelsea players on van der sar's left in 2008 champions league final went in - the only player that chose to go right(anelka) missed his pen. etoo's goal in 2009 champions league was to van der sar's left. 2 of the goals in the 2011 final(villa and pedro) were to van der sar's left!

who doesn't have a weakness? the difference is how the media feast on it. joe hart spills the ball as much as de gea does. all the goals hart conceded against bayern in munich were as a result of spillage. if dayokanu finds his way here, he would lecture you about it but the media won't highlight it, they would blame the defenders for reacting late instead of blaming hart for spilling!

those ones are witchhunts!
de gea turned things around when lindegaard was dropped after conceding 3 goals against reading in the first half of a match. since then, de gea has shaken down his errors and has caught up with his rivals and have even overtaken them.

your argument defies logic!
charts, graphs, stats that are up to date have been produced and yet you still want to argue. i can give you an article written yesterday putting de gea as the best goalkeeper in the league as things stand - your claim to de gea's poor handling date as far back as last year. so tell me, who is pissing in the wind?

Charts and graphs are misleading.

First they didn't state the matches and scenarios that made up those figues.
Secondly, the charts you people presented didn't have same/tallied figures.
Thirdly, one stated De Gea had only made one mistake so far this season. Whereas I know I saw mistakes in Fulham game, Totteham, Liverpool and some others I have forgotten.
The only reliable chart is EPL league table. De Gea has conceded more goals than Hart.
When you argue that he had more saves? What are the qualities of those saves? The ones he punch weakly and Evans or Ferdinand had to clear the pieces. Even Rooney, RVP, infact everyone gets behind the ball except Chicharito.

Do you guys watch United matches at all?

European Football (EPL, UEFA, La Liga) › Re: Official Manchester United Fan Thread:''20 Times EPL Champion by elampiro(m): 9:14pm On Mar 14, 2013

coogar: messi's inability to use the right foot is a weakness that defenders often use to nullify him. it doesn't take away his greatness. de gea is miles ahead of cech/hart every day of the week. cech and hart have no reflex anymore - they have regressed quite badly. de gea's mistakes are magnified because of his price-tag and because he plays for man utd(coming in to wear the shoes of the great van der sar)!!!

Don't bother about this Coogar guy, he is someone who wants to have the last say. They have heard our arguments, we have heard theirs, let everyone keep his stands.

European Football (EPL, UEFA, La Liga) › Re: Official Manchester United Fan Thread:''20 Times EPL Champion by elampiro(m): 9:08pm On Mar 14, 2013

coogar: yes he has been!
cumulatively, he has made more saves per shots, his current streak of clean sheets in the league, etc. we have provided charts, stats and graphs proving all these while all you have are articles in the early parts of the season.

The articles are reports on United matches up to Totteham game.

European Football (EPL, UEFA, La Liga) › Re: Official Manchester United Fan Thread:''20 Times EPL Champion by elampiro(m): 8:12pm On Mar 14, 2013

Ryan Giggs on his 18th birthday receiving a car as a present from local Manchester businessman Jim Quick. How times have changed!

European Football (EPL, UEFA, La Liga) › Re: Official Manchester United Fan Thread:''20 Times EPL Champion by elampiro(m): 8:03pm On Mar 14, 2013

In total 7 Manchester United players received a call up.

Rio Ferdinand, Chris Smalling, Tom Cleverley, Michael Carrick, Ashley Young, Danny Welbeck and Wayne Rooney have been called up to the England squad

European Football (EPL, UEFA, La Liga) › Re: Official Manchester United Fan Thread:''20 Times EPL Champion by elampiro(m): 8:02pm On Mar 14, 2013

dademola: wich yeye light?? U protagonists of de gea hav failed to address d issue of de gea been dropped for lindergaard in d early part of d season. Smeone even insinuated dt de gea was dropped cos he was injured. Anoda person claimed ts cos man utd hav a big squad. Nawa oo. Pls lets stop decieving ourselves. For starters, I hav a question for u guys. Hw many superpowers in europe alternate Gks like we did in d early part of d season??

Leave them to believe what they want to believe. As far as I am concerned I was very objective in reporting his performance this season.

Lets hope De Gea will not make us nervous in the remaining part of the season. I am praying he maintains the kind of performance he put up against Madrid.

Christianity Etc › Re: Cardinal Jorge Bergoglio of Argentina Named New Pope, Pope Francis! by elampiro(m): 8:22pm On Mar 13, 2013

CARDINAL JORGE MARIO BERGOGLIO OF ARGENTINA. FIRST SOUTH AMERICAN POPE.

European Football (EPL, UEFA, La Liga) › Re: Official Manchester United Fan Thread:''20 Times EPL Champion by elampiro(m): 8:11pm On Mar 13, 2013

Manchester United and Chelsea will replay their FA Cup tie at 12.30pm (UK TIME) on Easter Monday, April 1 at Stamford Bridge, the FA have confirmed.

European Football (EPL, UEFA, La Liga) › Re: Official Manchester United Fan Thread:''20 Times EPL Champion by elampiro(m): 5:15pm On Mar 13, 2013*

coogar: we have read your submission but as things stand today, de gea is the best goalkeeper in the division!

Ok, let's hope so and encourage him.

But I get nervous most times when the ball falls into our box. If he can be consistent, it will save us those panics.

European Football (EPL, UEFA, La Liga) › Re: Official Manchester United Fan Thread:''20 Times EPL Champion by elampiro(m): 4:49pm On Mar 13, 2013*

If De Gea was so good SAF wouldn't rotate him with Lindegaard. We all witnessed those errors. They are similar to the errors Ben Foster made when he was in United. But the difference is De Gea has sharp reflexes, ability to stop long rage shots. He only need to adjust some part of his game. He has to deal with aerial balls better, command his box by being able to read the game better,and fidget less. He seemed to be adjusting well now in the last one month or so.

I watch virtually all United matches, I know what I am talking about. I also want to make it clear that I am not disputing the fact that he has the potential to rule the world. I said this right from the beginning. My only worry is that he seemed not to confidently command his area well, particularly with crosses into the box. He surely will gain the experience in the next few months or years.

My submission.

................................

Curled from the above report.

'The problem for Ferguson is that neither De Gea nor Lindegaard have an exceptional case. A few days ago I asked a former pro – a striker who studied goalkeepers for potential weaknesses – who he would choose. "Neither," he replied. "They're not good enough for Manchester United."

Gary Neville seems unenthused, too, noting the goals his old club have conceded from set pieces and the absence of a goalkeeper dominating the penalty area. Neville knows what he is talking about. "The defenders will be nervous about what's behind them," he says.'

The above just captured my mind on what I have felt in most part of this season. Fear whenever the ball goes to our 18 box. I remember a match Rooney battled to defend a ball, he blocked two shots by throwing his body in the way, then the attack came again, he shielded well but the opponent managed to get a weak shot on goal, it was the only angle the striker had. When Rooney looked back, the ball was in the net. The way he gazed at De Gea, OMG! When defenders are nervous of what is behind them, it makes everyone retreat to shield the back unnecessarily and with panic.

You might see score at the end: Man U 3 Fulham 2 or Man U 2 Liverpool 1. People won't understand that but for the strikers power fire, it would have been a drawn match or even outright loss. And the panic in the last 10 minutes with everyone trying to defend crosses into the 18. Now, opponents deliberately pump balls into our box. That has been the panic. But good it's changing now.

European Football (EPL, UEFA, La Liga) › Re: Official Manchester United Fan Thread:''20 Times EPL Champion by elampiro(m): 4:37pm On Mar 13, 2013

Even in December the rotation was still on with both keepers making mistakes. This is a fair independent report. If you watch United matches you will understand these reports are so objective.

Peter Shilton and Ray Clemence used to think the same when Ron Greenwood was alternating them. On one occasion – England's 4-3 defeat in Austria in 1979 – Greenwood selected Shilton for the first half and Clemence for the second. Yet the policy did not take into account that a defence needs an understanding with its goalkeeper, and vice versa, and that for this position – perhaps more than any other on the pitch – there is clear sense in nominating a regular first-choice and sticking with him. The bottom line is, goalkeeper rotation does not work. It probably speaks for itself that there are so few other examples (César Sánchez and the young Iker Casillas is one, though Real Madrid's coach, Vicente del Bosque, soon realised "San Iker" was the better option) at a time when Ferguson continues to swap around De Gea and Lindegaard while complaining he can barely remember United being so vulnerable defensively.

There are not many times when Ferguson can be accused of sustained indecision, but this is one of them and the longer it goes on the more confusing it gets.

De Gea played the first two games of the season but was dropped because of a mistake against Fulham. Lindegaard came in for the next two and then they took turns, one after the other, for the following four games. De Gea was back for the next five, then Lindegaard for one, and then De Gea played three in a row before needing a wisdom tooth removing.

Lindegaard kept his place for five games until De Gea was recalled for the match against Cluj on Wednesday. United, meanwhile, have conceded 33 goals in the various competitions and been derided by their manager for Cartoon Cavalcade defending. It is not an exact science, but it is difficult not to think the two things are linked.

The lesson of history is fairly clear. Of Ferguson's 12 titles, Peter Schmeichel played every game in 1992‑93, missed two in 1993-94, 1995-96 and 1996‑97, and four in 1998-99. Post‑Schmeichel, United struggled to fill the position, but Mark Bosnich still played 23 of the 38 league fixtures in 1999-2000, the year of Massimo Taibi. Fabien Barthez played 32 times the next season and 30 in 2002-03. Edwin van der Sar made 32, 29, 33 and 33 appearances in his title-winning seasons.

This is the pattern of just about every successful team. Petr Cech played in all but 11 games during three championships with Chelsea. Joe Hart did not miss a single match for Manchester City last season.

How Ferguson must wish he had paid the £100,000 that Shrewsbury Town wanted for Hart a few years back. "We all make mistakes," he says.

That is not to say Hart has been flawless this season. In fact, broadening the argument, it has been a pretty undistinguished campaign so far for goalkeeping in the Premier League. Rob Green, Pepe Reina, Shay Given and Adam Federici have all, at one point of another, lost their places because of mistakes. If Southampton are trying to work out why they have been in the relegation zone, the performances of Kelvin Davis, Artur Boruc and Paulo Gazzaniga represent Exhibit A. For Arsenal, Wojciech Szczesny and Vito Mannone have taken turns making supporters pine for the security of David Seaman. Tim Howard, Jussi Jaaskelainen, Mark Schwarzer, Simon Mignolet and Ali al-Habsi have all let in soft goals. It is a long list.

Yet Ferguson is currently the only manager unable to decide on a first-choice and it is rare to see him this indecisive. Just as perplexing, there is little consistency. At the start of last season, when De Gea genuinely looked a danger to his own team, Ferguson persisted with him until a particularly bad run at Christmas. This season, one mistake and the Spaniard was out.

The problem for Ferguson is that neither De Gea nor Lindegaard have an exceptional case. A few days ago I asked a former pro – a striker who studied goalkeepers for potential weaknesses – who he would choose. "Neither," he replied. "They're not good enough for Manchester United."

Gary Neville seems unenthused, too, noting the goals his old club have conceded from set pieces and the absence of a goalkeeper dominating the penalty area. Neville knows what he is talking about. "The defenders will be nervous about what's behind them," he says.

So who should it be? At a push, I'd say De Gea would edge the kind of vote London's now defunct Evening News held in 1978, when it asked 22 players whom they would choose for England: Shilton or Clemence? Nine voted for Shilton and two for Clemence, one being his Liverpool team-mate David Johnson. Eleven could not decide.

De Gea has, after all, shown flashes of brilliance and, though far from perfect, who would expect him to be, just a month after he turned 22? His potential is considerable and it would be a poor judge who could not see it. It is just that it is the manager after Ferguson – or maybe even further down the line – who will probably see it realised on a more consistent basis. For now, De Gea has been lucky United have had enough firepower over the past couple of seasons to ensure the goals conceded from his mistakes have not cost the team more points.

Equally, however, it was always going to be the case that a new player, in a new country, would make errors. Overall, he has done about as well as could be expected since that bruising crash-course two autumns ago. It is easy, in fact, to feel a little sorry for him. It cannot be helping his confidence that his manager keeps playing football's equivalent of musical chairs.

More than anything, it disrupts the team. Goalkeepers are different. This is the point Bell and Nkono make. Nkono, for example, always wanted a man on each post at set pieces, whereas Bell left them free. Bell liked to sweep up behind his defence, allowing them to play a higher line. With Nkono, the back four had to drop deeper.

It was the same for Shilton and Clemence. Shilton hung back, Clemence moved forward. Shilton always wanted the area in front of him to be free, whereas Clemence liked the defenders nearer to him. Subtle yet important differences.

De Gea, talented yet erratic, and Lindegaard, steady but not a man for the outstanding save, have their own styles. Together, they have been part of a team that are top of the league. Ultimately, though, the policy isn't working. Just look at United's goals-against column, 10 worse than City's.

What is most surprising is that a manager of Ferguson's normally clear judgment is involved. He says it is because he has confidence in both goalkeepers. The impression it actually leaves is that he does not have total confidence in either.
http://m.guardian.co.uk/football/blog/2012/dec/08/sir-alex-ferguson-manchester-united

European Football (EPL, UEFA, La Liga) › Re: Official Manchester United Fan Thread:''20 Times EPL Champion by elampiro(m): 4:31pm On Mar 13, 2013

As at October the rotation was on, and Lindegaard getting more games.

The Manchester United boss praised De Gea's midweek performance but says he will continue to swap the Spaniard with Lindegaard, a system he has preferred so far this season

Manchester United manager Sir Alex Ferguson says he hasn't settled on a first choice goalkeeper and will continue to rotate David De Gea and Anders Lindegaard for the time being.

The 70-year-old praised De Gea - who has not played a Premier League game since conceding twice against Fulham in the second match of the campaign - following United's midweek win away to Cluj in the Champions League after a string of late saves preserved a 2-1 win.

Anders Lindegaard, 28, started the last four league matches in his place for Sir Alex, but it is unclear whether the Danish stopper will remain in goal for Sunday's trip to Newcastle.

"He [De Gea] was excellent, he is an outstanding goalkeeper, the young lad, he is getting better all the time." Ferguson told the Daily Mail.

"I don't know whether I should play him on Sunday or not but the way we have been doing it in the last few weeks has worked quite well for us.

"Everybody wants to play, goalkeepers are no different, but the way I look at it at the moment is getting the two of them experience will help me in the long term."

The Old Trafford boss says he isn't too concerned at the lack of a genuine No.1 as he feels both players have plenty of time left to establish themselves.

He said: "Peter Schmeichel was 27 when he joined us. Everyone was talking about a young goalkeeper joining us but he was 27, and he gave us eight great years.

"Goalkeepers can play until their late 30s quite easily, look at Brad Friedel for instance, and Peter Shilton played in the 1990 World Cup and I think he was 40.

"Goalkeepers can last longer. If they look after themselves even better, but as long as they keep their agility and their speed they can play to a good age."

http://www.goal.com/en-gb/news/2896/premier-league/2012/10/06/3428948/sir-alex-i-will-continue-to-rotate-my-keepers

European Football (EPL, UEFA, La Liga) › Re: Official Manchester United Fan Thread:''20 Times EPL Champion by elampiro(m): 12:31am On Mar 13, 2013

coogar: they gain a lot because de gea plays for man utd - the biggest football institution in the world. the #1 goalie of man utd is not british - so the criticism won't hurt their national pride so he's an easy target.

it's baffling you are struggling with the difference between facts and opinions. mirror or any newsmedia cannot tell me what i need to know about the performance of any player. i have been on this planet enough to know the british media have hidden agenda for easy targets. try and look for statistical sites cos stats are facts not opinion.

fallen below expectation at 22? tending the goal for the biggest club on the planet? you make me laugh! even after showing you stats that put de gea ahead of hart, you are still arguing. how can you be helped?

If you had said in the beginning that because he is 22 we should overlook so many things, I wouldn't have argued. But you said he is the best- ahead of Hart and Cech. That I disagree. If I am the manager of a team, I can't pick De Gea ahead of these guys for any reason. Just imagine having the option to pick one of them for a UCL final against Bayern Munich.

European Football (EPL, UEFA, La Liga) › Re: Official Manchester United Fan Thread:''20 Times EPL Champion by elampiro(m): 12:26am On Mar 13, 2013

Goodnight!

European Football (EPL, UEFA, La Liga) › Re: Official Manchester United Fan Thread:''20 Times EPL Champion by elampiro(m): 12:10am On Mar 13, 2013

coogar: the mirror?
you gotta be kidding me. you draw your opinion from reading the media or studying statistics and forming your own based on those stats. i have clearly overestimated your football knowledge by even engaging you in this debate. you surely don't know your football!

The mirror and telegraph are some of the best papers in the world. What is their gain in criticizing De Gea in their post match report. Two independent papers. They also have corroborated some of us based on what we saw in same matches. I didn't use their report as my judgement, rather to buttress my points.

De Gea may have saved a few long rage shots, but generally he has fallen below expectation until the last month. Take it or leave it.

European Football (EPL, UEFA, La Liga) › Re: Official Manchester United Fan Thread:''20 Times EPL Champion by elampiro(m): 12:01am On Mar 13, 2013

Fabville: That is it. For posting this again, i do not believe you are a Man United fan. No basis for any further discussion on this issue.

The mirror is one of the best papers in the world. Also Telegraph.

European Football (EPL, UEFA, La Liga) › Re: Official Manchester United Fan Thread:''20 Times EPL Champion by elampiro(m): 11:59pm On Mar 12, 2013

Fabville: I can see that you don't read very well. You don't pay good attention to what you read. You said he cost United the league last season and i told you that i do not agree with your judgement on that. I brought out a statistic link "Saves Percentage" to show to you that he even made it possible for to seriously compete for the League title with City. If not for his saves City would have won the league by miles instead of by goals difference. That doesn't mean he was the overall best keeper but the best in Saves Percentage.

That is a useless statistics. Every knew De Gea was jittery last year and made grievous errors which necessitated people to start doubting him. A few mistakes are allowed, but poor or shaking outings are obvious. Even Ben Foster pulled lots of savings, but he was generally poor.

Did hear anyone criticize Raphael when he arrived? He made a few mistakes but he was good from the start.

European Football (EPL, UEFA, La Liga) › Re: Official Manchester United Fan Thread:''20 Times EPL Champion by elampiro(m): 11:52pm On Mar 12, 2013

coogar: don't be confused - de gea is currently the best goalie in the premier league. hart and cech have regressed badly since last season or de gea has caught up and overtaken them(you can choose which one suits you). last season, he was raw and he knew not how to deal with the physicality of the premier league - that has changed now. if you can see the gif i am posting, your own comments would embarrass you!

man utd is a big squad - rotation is the key. so nani is not as good as downing because nani is always rotated? what kind of argument is this for crying out loud. i am sure you would even argue arouna kone is better than chicharito cos kone does not get rotated. this is why many of us here are questioning your claim that you have been supporting united for long.

Rotating keepers with one match apiece? Go and check our matches last year.

United is a big club. Yes, Van Dan Sar, 40, kept 90% matches during his time, whenever he was fit.

Coogar, you like to argue. It also appears you don't watch all United matches. Also see another guy there said De Gea was the best last year. I am tired.

European Football (EPL, UEFA, La Liga) › Re: Official Manchester United Fan Thread:''20 Times EPL Champion by elampiro(m): 11:45pm On Mar 12, 2013

Fabville: You amuse me a lot. I can't just understand your point. Saying that because Chelsea won the champions league and the FA cup, that makes their Goalkeeper the best goalkeeper. This is funny. You can as well say those recent years that Barcelona won the Champions League and other trophies, Victor Valdez was better than Iker Casillas. You analogy is not right. You are disputing statistics that was compiled by unbiased professionals. Why not do your own research and come out with your own statistics and let's see what you'll come out with.

You that disputed the facts you saw in a link i posted. What will now make you believe the one you are requesting me to post. I can see that you don't believe in statistics so there is no point posting it.

Your table is showing De Gea is distant 3rd. Some abbreviations have not been explained. What is av-sc, and av-ah? A link will enable us to interpret it better.
I gave you professional sports analysis by some world best media. Didn't you see source there? Where is your source for your table?

European Football (EPL, UEFA, La Liga) › Re: Official Manchester United Fan Thread:''20 Times EPL Champion by elampiro(m): 11:40pm On Mar 12, 2013

coogar: it's tedious arguing with you - keep your eyes on the ball. i am claiming de gea is the best in the division and you are bringing out last season when he was wet behind the ears and the communication with the defenders was a problem.

you have made false claims that de gea is jittery at taking crosses or aerials and everytime balls are pumped into the box this season and he's not comfortable and we looked like conceding.

https://i.minus.com/iOjVptG6drB8L.gif

https://i.minus.com/iOjVptG6drB8L.gif

Even Kukzacks had his strong point and great moments. Making a few saves after causing so much havoc doesn't justify that a keeper has arrived.

It might shock you to know that Kuckzacks had the best record in saving free kicks. He hardly conceded from free kicks, he read them well and took steps to either pick them or palm them away. Despite those saves his lack of composure made him a second choice. He was even in goal for more than half of 2006/2007 season when united took the league back from Chelsea. Van Der Sar had a long injury. But despite Kuckzacks apparent good run, his lack of confidence got SAF yearning for Van Der Sar return.

European Football (EPL, UEFA, La Liga) › Re: Official Manchester United Fan Thread:''20 Times EPL Champion by elampiro(m): 11:31pm On Mar 12, 2013

Now someone has even said De Gea was the best last season. Now I know there is no need to continuing arguing.

If he was so good, Lindegaard wouln't have had so many games. Even this season, SAF said he was rotating his two keepers to see who would adapt better. I doubt if that has ever happened in United or else where.

European Football (EPL, UEFA, La Liga) › Re: Official Manchester United Fan Thread:''20 Times EPL Champion by elampiro(m): 11:25pm On Mar 12, 2013

coogar: the articles are shyte - those were actually some of de gea's best performances this season. i would post an opta rating to solidify this later.

just like the other goalkeepers in the league have made howlers with aerial balls/crosses. there are thousands of gifs on the internet that would reveal the mistakes cech, hart and cesar have made.

another nonsensical myth - de gea only lost a match in the league(against everton) after making half a dozen saves.

another fallacy - de gea did not feature because he went for his eye surgery and lindegaard replaced him while he recovered.

is this an argument? who are the number 2 goalies in man city and chelsea? they are nothing to write home about so no matter the number of mistakes hart/cech make, the club have to stick with them. reina is a shyte goalie - has he been benched when he's fit?

he's already the greatest in the premier league until hart/cech pros their mettle and return back to their old form. this is the performance stat of de gea and hart on opta. this site rates performances based on the number of games played and de gea is miles ahead of hart.

Eye surgery was not the reason for match rotation between De Gea and Lindegaard. They were taking turns with games last year. One match on, one off.

European Football (EPL, UEFA, La Liga) › Re: Official Manchester United Fan Thread:''20 Times EPL Champion by elampiro(m): 11:04pm On Mar 12, 2013

Fabville: You have to also consider his appearances to the other two this season. Probably, if had had the same number of app. he may have been on the same level with them or above them.

I do not agree with you that he costs us the league last season. With all his mistakes last season David De Gea still has the best percentage saves in the EPL.
Also see this and visit this link http://soccer.indonewyork.com/best-premier-league-goalkeepers-ranking-2011/ to see that. The so-called Petr Czech was 15th.

Give us link to the table above to also allow us have a personal view and judgment. What does AV stand for? What about the 'r' in red?

Secondly, are you saying De Gea did better than Cecz last season? Also Hart? That statistics must be crazy.

Cecz that won the UCL and FA cup. Did you see his matches against Bayern and Barca? Just remove last season from this argument.

European Football (EPL, UEFA, La Liga) › Re: Official Manchester United Fan Thread:''20 Times EPL Champion by elampiro(m): 10:50pm On Mar 12, 2013

coogar: you are still going about your life-long support - it's irrelevant.
even if it's relevant - it's a crying shame you have been supporting united for that long and you cannot detect media trolling and factual articles. the only article of note where fergie mentioned de gea's mistakes was in 2011. the discourse here is who is a better goalie than de gea in the division and you are bringing out articles of 2011. be consistent in your epistle at least so we can draw a line under this.

all the articles you uprooted have no bearing to the discussion. they are what they are - media generated fallacies. according to the media, man utd have been declining since 1992. beckham, ruud and ronaldo were supposed to have ended the reign of the fergie empire. right now, their main target is the goalie because he's a spaniard and the only starting member of the defence yet to win a league title.

The articles I put up there corroborated my argument that:

De Gea has more than one grievous mistakes this season. Fulham, Liverpool, Totteham.

The articles showed De Gea has not been confident with aerial balls/crosses.

The articles suggested prior to the Madrid game, De Gea had not considered to have settled.

I made mention earlier too that SAF was alternating the two keepers until January because of both keepers inconsistencies.

No one will bench Cecz or Hart in their clubs or even if they were to sign for United.

I haven't said De Gea won't be great, he will be great. However, my mind shakes whenever the ball flies into our box.

European Football (EPL, UEFA, La Liga) › Re: Official Manchester United Fan Thread:''20 Times EPL Champion by elampiro(m): 10:39pm On Mar 12, 2013

coogar: you are missing the point - that's a performance index based on the number of appearances. cech and hart are higher because they have played 8 more games than de gea. you should learn how to read stats before concluding. the damning stats between hart and de gea(computed per min) is the one i posted earlier and de gea outperformed hart in leaps and bounds.

it summarises everything you need to know about elampiro.
bringing out articles about alan hansen - the same hansen that said fergie won't win anything with kids and united went on to win with kids.

now let's put that aside and see his exegesis on that article - he claims de gea cost united 3 points, nothing was said about 3 world class saves he made in the first half that would have put the tie beyond reach. how would one take this kinda article serious?

No go back to the table, you will see this has been prorated (averaged) so the table is correct as it is. Please you guys should also put link to enable us understand further details. I can see Cech and Hart at number 28 while De Gea is 55.

European Football (EPL, UEFA, La Liga) › Re: Official Manchester United Fan Thread:''20 Times EPL Champion by elampiro(m): 10:18pm On Mar 12, 2013

@Fabville, if other guys have said pt like this from beginning, there wouldn't have been any reason for arguments.

You have admitted he is learning and has potentials. That has been my point.

You have shown that Cech and Hart are better. That has been my point.

You have shown that he is now improving recently. That has been my point.

European Football (EPL, UEFA, La Liga) › Re: Official Manchester United Fan Thread:''20 Times EPL Champion by elampiro(m): 10:09pm On Mar 12, 2013

coogar: no need to tell us how long you have been supporting united - go back to your articles and lift direct quotes from fergie this season claiming de gea is not good enough and he's looking for a replacement!

The argument is not about replacing De Gea. The argument is about his mistakes. Go to the full stories and see Fergie admission to his unusual mistakes.

I stated how long I have been following football because of your constant reference to 'newbie' 'newcommer', etc.

From your talk, it looks like I am charting with students, because you have the mentality that you alone have access to DSTV at home, also that you have been a football follower longer than anyone else. Guy, e don tey me for these things. I spend so much on them. It may ineterst you to know I have had video chatting with Vidic, Evans, Chicharito and De Gea (COURTESY OF MAN UNITED FACE BOOK FAN PAGE).

Don't ever assume that people who come here (this tread) newly are just developing interest in United or football.

European Football (EPL, UEFA, La Liga) › Re: Official Manchester United Fan Thread:''20 Times EPL Champion by elampiro(m): 9:16pm On Mar 12, 2013

coogar: you must have started watching football or following football news like 3 months ago. if you cannot differentiate between the opinion of a journalist and actual facts then there's no reason to debate with you.

all the articles you pasted are lies. there was no single one of them that quoted sir alex ferguson directly. the headlines and the contents under them are just the opinions of the idiöts who wrote them. you are a newbie now though - in a short while you would know the kind of articles we take seriously here and the ones written by witchhunters.

Guy, I have been a United ardent fan since early '90s. I watch matches from the comfort of my home. Stop calling me a 'new fan'. I know football more than you do. I watched part of 1982 world cup and watched virtually all matches of 1986 world cup. I have never looked back ever since.

You should also know most of the articles are a consequent of Fergie's comments. What you ha ve there are just abridge section of the full stories, I cut out a lot of part not to bore you guys with lenghty stories. Go to the links and read full report. I am surprised you people didn't know when SAF made all these comment. I will suggest some facebook Man United pages and fan pages to follow to get news of the teams as they are breaking. Directly from admin with offices in Old Trafford. They also give opportunities for fans to ask players questions and vote for Man of the Match.

European Football (EPL, UEFA, La Liga) › Re: Official Manchester United Fan Thread:''20 Times EPL Champion by elampiro(m): 9:06pm On Mar 12, 2013

coogar: you must have started watching football or following football news like 3 months ago. if you cannot differentiate between the opinion of a journalist and actual facts then there's no reason to debate with you.

all the articles you pasted are lies. there was no single one of them that quoted sir alex ferguson directly. the headlines and the contents under them are just the opinions of the idiöts who wrote them. you are a newbie now though - in a short while you would know the kind of articles we take seriously here and the ones written by witchhunters.

Now I know the kind of person I am arguing with. How can you say articles from daily mirror, telegraph on matches we watch are false. Did De Gea not commit the above errors? Don't you watch United matches!v All the errors mentioned above are true. West Brom, Befinca, Totteham, Fulham, Blackburn, Liverpool, etc. Before I fetched the report, I and some other guys already mentioned his weakness with aerial balls, has it not be corroborated?

The other time you went and pasted a fake statistics from an unknown source and you used it as your. Basis for your argument. Now you are disputing argument from some of the best trained sports journalist in the world reporting for the most creditable news media. You guys just like to argue.

European Football (EPL, UEFA, La Liga) › Re: Official Manchester United Fan Thread:''20 Times EPL Champion by elampiro(m): 8:34pm On Mar 12, 2013

I can go on and on.

Let's just hope he works on his weakness, but I can't ever agree he is number one now. Any time we concede corners, I am always scared.

European Football (EPL, UEFA, La Liga) › Re: Official Manchester United Fan Thread:''20 Times EPL Champion by elampiro(m): 8:31pm On Mar 12, 2013

Manchester United manager Alex Ferguson must decide whether to axe David de Gea after latest mistake

Costly mistake: David de Gea fails to punch with any conviction

Picture: PA

By Alan Hansen, at White Hart Lane

7:00AM GMT 21 Jan 2013

Manchester United’s hopes of regaining the Premier League title will always be in jeopardy if David de Gea keeps making mistakes like the one against Spurs and he must surely be on his last chance now.

Without a doubt he cost them three points and this is a crucial stage of the season where Sir Alex Ferguson needs to decide whether to stick with him or take him out the firing line.

The result at White Hart Lane could prove a season defining moment and United cannot afford to be drawing games when they should be winning them.

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......De Gea is only 22 and there is no doubt that he made two or three great saves against Spurs. He is an excellent shot-stopper but he has that weakness coming for the ball and it is always going to end up costing them.

It cannot be allowed to continue because other teams are going to play on it. They will set up their approach to games to target the goalkeeper because De Gea undoubtedly has a frailty and a weakness when the ball is in the air and it has been proven time and time again.

If Sir Alex was playing against a goalkeeper who he knew was susceptible in the air, he would be telling his players to show no mercy. Other teams will be doing exactly the same against United when De Gea is in the team.

I was actually surprised Tottenham didn’t target him more through the game. There were not that many aerial balls into the area to test him. They had players like Defoe, Bale, Lennon, Dembélé, Parker and then Huddlestone, when he came on, all trying to beat the goalkeeper from 30 yards, when the best way to test him is to get the ball out wide and chip it into the area.

The first time they did that was in injury time and look what happened – the goalkeeper has come out, completely made a mess of it and Spurs have equalised. Quite simply, when the ball is in the air in the penalty area and he has to come for it, he struggles. It is a big weakness.

....Any aspiring centre-half should get a DVD of the Spurs game and watch the way those two played. You would not fail to learn the basics of defending, getting into the right positions and reading the game. They have such an intuitive understanding and when Vidic steps left, Rio will step right. United’s goal was excellent but the Spurs back four were simply pulled apart for it. In an identical situation for Spurs, they just could not find a way past Rio and Vidic.

It will be difficult to keep them playing together all season but the more Sir Alex can do it, the better United’s chances of winning the title will be. They deserved get three points – but the reason they did not is because of the goalkeeper, and its something United have got to deal with or it could end up costing them.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/manchester-united/9814601/Manchester-United-manager-Alex-Ferguson-must-decide-whether-to-axe-David-de-Gea-after-latest-mistake.html

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