₦airaland Forum

STRI1:
Was Jesus aware there will be some set of people called Muslims ?

jesus is the ceeator of the world a God who knows the future. his kingdom willnput an end to this present world system and he will establish his own kingdom where he will be the ruler as prophesied by daniel.

so what is the essence of your question.

Lukuluku69:
Obviously you struggle with sound reasoning and sound knowledge of events so I won't bother myself with the heavy stuff no more.

Your Third Paragraph, what you are saying is that the other Three Kingdoms foretold by Daniel has fallen before the rise of the the Arabs Muslims, so please tell us that Kingdom of God that should claim this credit.

To bring it home, we all know Persia ended Babylon, and according to you, if Alexander ended Persia, and Rome already fell when the Arabs took Constantinople, so which Kingdom of God should claim this credit? Remember we are are talking about the Prophecy of Daniel in Chapter 2/7.

On your offer of "Education" please keep them, it is no use. And calm down when you type, it brings out your thoughts and points better. As for World History, you got nothing to teach apart from the elementary stuff

Between this Thread is about Prophecy in the Bible about the rise of Islam, I tell you there are dozens of them but only the Wise see them not opinionated dotards as you. Why do you think more Europeans and South Americans are embracing Islam in Numbers?

Funny thing is the same way you have been showing your Jesus to the Jews and meet rejections is the same way the Christians have been rejecting the Last of the Prophets.

Ironic I would say.

look who is talking of sound reasoning and sound knowledge. a man who uses biblical prophecy he does not believe , but think the same book written to christians apply to his muslim faith when history logic and common sense does not support his bogus but even shamefull and ridiculous postulation.

before I could even argue with you on the book of daniel, are you a christian? do you believe in the bible? a man who does not read nor study the bible because it is not the holy book of his faith is seriously arguing with me what he knows nothing about.
is this the kind of thing they teach in mosques?

you know nothing about the book of daniel. and I have given you links to confirm what I said but you are typing things that do not make sense.

daniel gave a prophecy about kingdoms to succeed the other starting from babylon and ended in rome. these visions are represented by the image in the first vision and beasts in the second.

the first vison talks about the head of gold which is babylon, the second medo persia and the third greece. the fouth kingdom which is rome crumbled into ten kingdom represented by the ten toes of the image. daniel 2:41. this is supported by history.
the beasts which daniel saw in daniel 7 speaks of the same event. the fourth beast represent rome because we know that rome conqured greece and rose to world domination after that. history has it in record.

currently rome has divided into ten kingdoms these kingdoms are in Europe currently.

daniel 2:44 and daniel 7:13-14 speaks of a holy one from heaven who will set up an everlasting kingdom. this holy one is jesu christ not mohammed or allah.

you sound ridiculous trying to fit a biblical prophecy for the Christians into your muslim faith. you should be ashamed.

islam is a vatican creation sorry you have to come to christ to be a part of his kingdom. not the ones you will get with jihad wars.

Lukuluku69:
Oga Latter Day Scholar be calming down. Did I ever write that the Arabs took over Greeks Lands from the Persians?

And for your info, the Persians never moved Capital. They conquer you, they appoint a Satraps.

If only you will leave off your ridiculousness and open your mind and brains, the Arabs took on the Persians, Greeks and Romans simultaneously and on their own Turf.

Imagine Haiti fighting The USA, UK and Russia at the same time! Is that not a thing of wonderment?

And saying the Arabs Muslims need any Papal approval to shows the level of your Education of world History.

Sir, cringe at your bigotry, half education and open groping while in the full glare of daylight.

Whatever you make of Daniel 2/7 is your business. It doesn't remove anything from its true interpretations which Daniel himself gave.

So, keep waiting ooo. It has been almost 2,500+ since that Prophecy but according to you it has not find fulfilment but you agree that Persia took out Babylon while Daniel was still alive which was one of the Four Kingdoms in the Prophecy.

So, wait on .......

Add this to the numerous Prophecies you are waiting for ...

are you seriously trying to use the bible prophecy for a muslim fulfilment? like seriously what is wrong you muslims? you have your Qur'an a book that you kill if a person mess with it yet you erroneously cling to the bible prophecy to claim it applies to muslim arabs common !! be reasonable!! no wonder you people behave the way you behave.


the persian capital and seat of power was in babylonia and alexander the great took over their seat of power when he defeated darius 3 in the battle of gaugamela in 334' the historical records are there for any to see including you.

https://www.history.com/news/alexander-the-great-defeat-persian-empire

when the arabs invaded greece, greece was fallen from world power. when the arab muslims invaded constantinople rome was fallen from world power. rome fell in 476 ad, as at that time when rome fell there was no islam. the emperor of rome left power to the pope. this was when the popes contolled most of the european nations that was once part of roman empire. so mr arab muslims did not conquer rome nor greece nor persian that was in power before all these kingdoms.


I will educate you a little in world history and islam; the vatican wanted jerusalem as a holy site, so he wanted to have it without directly engaging in the battle for jerusalem.
these qas when they saw an untapped man power in the arabs. so they deviced a plan to form a new religion for the arabs to unit them under one umbrella. that religeion was islam. so they used "waraqa" a cousine of mohammeds wife to tell him he would be a prophet of god. waraqa and mohammeds wife were christian roman catholics. a fact you can verify now now!'

when the religion of islam grew over the years , with catholic priests pulling the strings. the muslim arabs were sent to invade many nations who where not subject to the pope these nations included north africa, because the donatist in north africa denied and reject the sovrienity of the pope and also they where sent to invades jerusalem and capture it for the pope. because of this when ever the arab muslims qant ot invade a particular nation, they take permission from the pope who issues them a papal bull granting them permission. when they succeeded, they refused to hand over the holy land to the pope, even calling the pope an infidel. the pope heard pf tgis and realised that they have created a monster who have turned agaisnt them and these is the reason for the crusades between the catholic knight templers and the arab muslims in jersulam. at the end an agreement was struck to allow muslims dwell in the captured areas of the land and also allow the vatican occupy the other side captured by the crusaders.

now you know a little of you religion


daniel 2;7 talks about an image. and the imterpretation of it is in the bible. but the fact of the matter is that you and your muslim religion have no business with it. face your Qur'an and find to interpret the prophecies in there, and leave the bible which you claim is corrupt and tainted alone. it is appalling to find you trying to use biblical prophecy for a muslims interpretation and fulfilment. ridiculous!!!

Lukuluku69:
If I am not making any sense with my submission backed by verifiable facts corroborated by history then you sir is bereft of any!

If your claimed that it was Alexander that ended Persia when in fact Persia was still fighting Rome till around 500 AD, that means the Kingdom that God will set up was the Macedonian/Grecian One but the issue with that thinking and position is that The God of the Bible actually accepted the Grecian Poseidon, Apollo, Dionysus and Zeus as rival Gods because these are the names of God the Mecedonian/Greeks marched. They never marched in the name of Yahweh or Jehovah or any other you guys came up with. The Greeks believed in Zeus not Jehovah.

I was even mistaken that I was in a Convo with a grounded someone. The Muslims need a Papal Bull to do what? Is that what you have been fed with from infancy? Lol

So, the Greek worshippers of Zeus and Apollo is the Kingdom that Jehovah uses end Persia? No wonder though, he once used the Zoroastrian Persians to end the Baal worshipping Babylon. Lol


Your take on Daniel 2:44 explains it all anyway. No wonder you lots have been groping endlessly while trying to make any meanings with the content of your Books. Keep waiting.......

Isaiah 59:9-10 (KJV) Therefore is judgment far from us, neither doth justice overtake us: we wait for light, but behold obscurity; for brightness, but we walk in darkness.
We grope for the wall like the blind, and we grope as if we had no eyes: we stumble at noonday as in the night; we are in desolate places as dead men.

NB.

Below is a link to the Wars between Persia and Rome almost 700 Years after their encounter with Alexander of Macedon.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman%E2%80%93Persian_Wars

when the persians conqured babylon, where there no babylonians? or babylonian religeon? same thing happened when greece under alexander conqured persian and took over their seat of power which is in babylon.

the romans conquered judea and ruled over them appointing procurators to oversee their provinces. the same thing happend when alexander conqured greece.

no historical in record has it that arab muslims conquered and took power from the persian it is greece. this is a link from the history website itself.

https://www.history.com/news/alexander-the-great-defeat-persian-empire

yes! the muslims actually needed a papal bull to invade and conqure cities. that is how they where able to conqure some europian nations like turkey and some north african countries. mohammeds wife khadija was a roman catholic before she converted to islam. and it was a catholic priest who told mohammed that he was to be a great prophet to his people.

again I repeat daniel 2:44 is refering to the ten kingdoms which is represented by the ten toes of the great image of daniels vision. there is nothing that suggest it is a amn made kingdom or a more ridiculous arab muslim nation.

I cringe at the fact and boldness you use to associate biblical prophecy which has nothing to do with islam, yet stubbornly and ignorantly use to defend a muslim ridiculouse view of your jihad forceful conversion.

the rest of your statements makes no sense even your link says nothing about persia and rome.

Lukuluku69:
Do you know what Prophecies are?

Do Prophecies Fulfilment confined to just a Day? Months or years or over time in a series of events.

Leave off your bias for Islam for once and see things in another perspectives.

The Arabs Muslims are the ONLY Nation that took on the Persians, Greeks and Romans almost simultaneously.

Can you imagine a Nation of Goat herders, beggars and Traders on Camels taking on the Persians, Greeks and Romans who have been around for Centuries warring and conquering them, make them fly?

It is akin to Grenada taking on America, UK and France and came out intact?

And where did you see me say Islam was around when Persia was at her peak? What I am telling you is that Arab Muslims took them on and they were vanquished.

They lost their Kingdom, lost their Faith, lost their Culture.

Read the verse below slowly and paint a mental picture in your head.


Daniel 2:44 (KJV) And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.

you are not making sense. there was no nation called arab muslims in 334 bc when the kingdom of persia lost power. the arabs united under mohammeds islamic faith which he got from catholic priests anyway 600 yrs after the christian faith and over 1300 years after the persian kingdom fell from power .the fact that they lost their culture or even faith does not mean that they lost power to islam. world power was already with rome at that time and they could not conquer most places without the permission of the pope. yes! the muslim conquistadors needed a papal bull to invade a place and without that they could not do nothing. this goes to show they do not even have power of their own.

alexander vanquished the persians from world domination and declared himself king of persia and greece.and ruled over the provinces of the fallen persian empire that is what the book of daniel was talking about.

daniel 2:44 is referring to the ten kingdom that broke out of the fourth kingdom which is rome. these kingdoms are present now . and the fourth kingdom is the last kingdom on the earth before christ himself sets up a kingdom by his own hands ,not by the hands of muslims.

it is ridiculous to see you trying to prove islamic teachings with the bible you do not believe. and also trying to force the application of a prophecy from the bible to islam when it is clear to even the blind that its not.

Lukuluku69:
You are looking at the answer to your posers yet you are denying it.

You see that Nation that Islam united ended Persia, from thence henceforth, the Persian had no single Chosros, Lost all their Vassals, they were concerted wholesale. As a matter of fact, the Persians were looking forward to it. For you to know, do you remember the Three Wise men? They were looking for a Reformer who would upturn their Fire Temples and reform their corrupt Zoroastrian Faith. For their is a prophecy to that effect in their own faith(Don't take my words for it, arm yourself and research the Zoroastrian Faith).

kicked Greece out of The Holy Lands, lost their Capital and rename it from Constantinople to Istanbul (City of Islam)

As for Rome, it time is coming.....

you want to talk true history? I give it to you!!
the fact of the matter is that there was no islam when the kingdom of medo persia was dominating as world power. so how can arab muslims be the fulfiment of daniels prophecy?

your argument is not consistent with the times. islam came 600 after christianity. this a fact.
the histprycal recorda are there for you to see.

there is no prophecy concerning islam in the bible.

Lukuluku69:
Alexander never ended Persia. Yes he won a decisive battle against them (Read Daniel Chapter but Alexander the Great never dealt them a Death blow the way the Arabs did when they met in Battle. If my memory is correct, Alexander was 325-350 AD. After that, the Persians still mustered enough Fire power to sack the Greeks and Romans on a number of Occasion. t As a matter of fact, Historian believe there was never a Victor or a Vanquish in the Wars between the Persians and the Romans. The Persians still had countless Chosros ( Kings) after Alexander the great.


Now Flipped the Coins, when the Muslim Arabs marched on Persia, they lost Everything.

They their Lands, they lost their Kingdom and all their Vassals and above all they Lost their Faith. The Zoroastrian Faith that has been with them for close to a Thousand Years. Did Alexander converted them? No. The Arabs did and they have remain Muslims for Fourteen Hundred years and counting just as was prophesized by Daniel

Daniel 2:44 (KJV) And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.

greece under alexander conqured sacked and pverthrew babylon which was the seat of power of the medo persian empire this is a historical fact. persia might have still had other provices becuase thier empire was vast with their kings but the main province and city was which is babylon was overun by alexander and this signaled the decline of the golden age of the persian kingdom. the persi n might have still had provinces because their empire was vast but their center of authority has been conqured and so they lost world dominance and power to the greeks not arabs. it is a recorded history except you want to go back in time and change it which is not possible. so you are wrong

when the arab muslims took over the provinces that was once part of the kingdom of medo persia the kingdom was no longer a world power neither are they part of the power brokers that run the world..

islam came 600 years after Christianity ,a time when even the roman power has divolved into the roman church so your statemnt cannot be true.

and you should not apply the chriatian prophecy to a muslim fulfilment that is absurd. it cannot be.

Lukuluku69:
You are welcome.

Well the gist of Daniel 2/7 is that Daniel saw a Vision of four Kingdoms. Namely Babylon, Persia, Grecian and Roman Empire.

He foretold what will happen to these Nations starting with Nebuchadnezzar's Babylon, he talked about its glory and eventual demise at the hands of the Persians.

He also foretold what will happen to the Persian Nation as well as the Grecian and the Romans.

He foretold a Kingdom set up by God that will put an end to these other Three Kingdoms.

I checked history, it says the Arab Muslims ended Persia and that of the Greeks. It not only ended Persia, Persia was converted to Islam and for some Fourteen Centuries now, they have remained Muslims .

As for the Greeks, their hold on the Holy Lands were broken by the Arabs and everywhere else in the Lands promised Abraham from Palestine even unto the Great River Nile. Not only that, they were routed in their own Land and sent flying with tails in between their Legs and the Seat of their Government taken over by the Muslims.

As for Rome and the Lies they propped up, that has been found out but it capitulation is for another time. It may tarry but it will come.

Now, you have it.

every thing os corrwct until the part you said arab muslims ended persia. that is wrong mr man.

the greeks under alexander conqured the persian empire to become the dominant world power in the battle of guagamela in 331bc and the romans conquered greece to become the dominant world power in 146bc at the battle of Corinth.

at these times the arabs where not even united as a nation neither do they have islam as a religion.

islam only came 600 years after the advent of Christianity. mohameed unitd the arab race with islam. at a time when the roman church was in power and controlled the roman provinces.

so mr you are wrong!!

Lukuluku69:
Lol

A click on Page 2 on this Trade will save you a lot.

If you are up for it, go click it otherwise, go take a deserve sit and read comments

I have gone there and there is no perticuular one I can see where the book of daniel mentioned any thing on islam. so I asked you to pin point the verse where you claimed talks about islam. and lets start from there.

Lukuluku69:
Oga, go and sit down.

If you really are up for it, how hard is it for you to click on Page 2 of this Thread? How hard is that? I detailed everything from Daniel Chapter 7 verses 1 thru 25 on about 6 posts. You want me to type all that again when you can click on page 2 and read them all?

Abeg, go and sit down.

I gave you the oppurtunity to make it as short as possible but you rant instead. there is nothing in the book of daniel saying anything about islam.
you should be the one sitting down.

Lukuluku69:
How can I show you straight away when you can actually go to page No. 2 of this Thread and read my submissions alongside Verses from Daniel Chapter 7?

If you missed the Lessons, you still have the Notes.

Page 2. I have about 6 posts. Go read them and if you have any objections, we can start from there.

Daniel Chapter 7 has 28 verses, I touched on every one.

like I said before, there is nothing in daniel 7 about the rise of islam. I cant go back to start reading alot of things. just right now give the chapters and verses that you claim talks about yhe rise of islam in the book of daniel and let me show you that you are wrong.

Lukuluku69:
Who quoted who?

Are you new on Nairaland?

Click on your posts and see where the mentions starts from.

And if you still want to read my submissions, go to page No. 2 on this thread.

you should have shown me straight away or briefly how the book of daniel speaks on islam and lets dissect from there. dont point me back just state the passages and verses.

Lukuluku69:
You will find my submissions on page 2 of this Thread. You can go thru them if you so wish. The Moniker is Lukuluku69.

you should not have quoted me if your not serious.

Lukuluku69:
Why not read your Bible Concordance and tell us what your Learned think the Four Earthly Kingdoms were?

Can we start from there? Or are you one of those postponing the events in Daniel 2/7 when the One who saw the Vision clearly states otherwise ?

there is nothing in the book of daniel about islam, if you think you have somthing about that then present it and lets see.

fineboynl:
I'm getting tired buying mosquito repellant and Malaria drugs. I have been holding back buying UV light for mosquito because of reviews I reading online. I don't want to waste money.

Anyone with experience should enlighten me if I should go ahead to order for the UV light against mosquito.

yes, but not so magically as you might think.
I think it works if they fly close to it.

MaxInDHouse:
I don't argue at all i TEACH!

Jesus prayed for all his disciples to think alike when it comes to principle {John 17:22} you ignored that and accepted all religions claiming they're Christians simply because they claim they believe in God and Jesus {Matthew 7:21-23} but Muslims who also claim they believe in both God and Jesus you're condemning that's inconsistency on your part. It's either you figure out which one out of thousands of sects claiming they believe in God and Jesus to prove your point or welcome all including Muslims!

you can stop quoting me now pls

MaxInDHouse:
I don't argue at all i TEACH!

Jesus prayed for all his disciples to think alike when it comes to principle {John 17:22} you ignored that and accepted all religions claiming they're Christians simply because they claim they believe in God and Jesus {Matthew 7:21-23} but Muslims who also claim they believe in both God and Jesus you're condemning that's inconsistency on your part. It's either you figure out which one out of thousands of sects claiming they believe in God and Jesus to prove your point or welcome all including Muslims!

you can stop quoting me now! pls

MaxInDHouse:
That's what you should have done when i said muslims can't be ruled out as long as you acknowledge countless sects claiming they believe in God and Jesus just as Muslims do!

you dont make reaonable arguments. your arguments lead to nothing. and its void plus empty.

MaxInDHouse:
If all those claiming they believe in Jesus can't come up with the same DOCTRINE {John 17:22; 1Corinthians 1:10; Ephesians 4:3} then don't condemn Muslims after all they also claim they believe in God and Jesus!

no need to reply your post again, its a waste of time.

Janosky:
Oga, your Bible@ James 2:19 has resolved the matter but you don't seem to get it- Believe is different from Faith.
They do not put faith in his works of salvation.
James 2:19, did demons put faith in God?
No,is the answer.




The difference is put faith , in the Christian sense.

They are entitled to believe what they believe.
No be by force.

Jesus Christ did not use gun to threaten anyone to follow him.

believe in jesus in the christian faith means to believe he is your saviour. pure and simple. is muslims do not believe in jesus as their saviour then muslims do really believe in him.

now let me ask you do muslims believe in jesus as their saviour?

Janosky:
Muslims believe that Jesus Christ is the Messiah and a prophet but they do not put faith in him as their route to salvation.

James 2:19, did demons have faith in God?

how can muslims believe jesus is the messiah yet do not believe in his works of salvation.
muslims version of jesus is dead and buried and he is not the son of God. if muslims do not put faith in him as their rout to salvation then they do not believe in him in the christian sense. because to do that means he is your saviour.

MaxInDHouse:
Did Muslims believe in God?
YES!

Did Muslims believe in Jesus?
YES!

Anything aside that is DOCTRINES which we all need to deliberate on not just claims anymore!

you are just grasping at straws. making childish argument

MaxInDHouse:
DOCTRINES!
Muslims claims they believe in God (the Father) and they also claim believe in Jesus (the Son)
So calling them Antichrist is due to jealousy since they also claim they believe in both God (whom your own religion calls the father) and Jesus (whom your own religion calls the son)

allah is not God but an idol, the jesus muslims believe in did not ressurect and is not the son of God.

your argument is childish.

I have given you scriptures to prove what I said. any thing aside that is irrelevant.

Janosky:
If it pleases you to worship 2 or 3 different Spirits, that's your Cup of tea.

John 9:4. John 20:17 & Revelation 3:12 is from the very mouth of your 2nd person spirit.

Jesus in heaven is a Worshipper. Na so him talk.
Oga, Deal with it.

I dont know what your talking about here. but I have proved my point . point blank.

MaxInDHouse:
You can't speak for all those claiming Christians because many of them believes that Muslims are their brothers in faith for claiming faith in Jesus!

you are wrong. the bible says he who denies the father and the son is antichrist. and anyone who does not confess that christ the son of God came in the flesh is antichrist.1 john2:22. and 1john 1:4

Janosky:
Oga, were you in disagreement with this screenshot?
Yes!
You even ridiculed this screenshot as "Irrelevant" & other abusive term you employed to reference your opinion.

From the outset you posited the view that Muslims never believed in Jesus Christ until you clarified your comment which I highlighted

christ is the son of God, do muslims believe this. if the answer is no, then muslims do not believe in jesus and every thing you say is irrelivant.

Janosky:
Your belief that Jesus Christ is the Messiah is irrelevant?



Everyone is a son of God, even Adamu.

The 3 faiths that have linkage to Abraham have some common grounds.
It is not an issue for ridicule.

I think at this point you are joking. muslims dont believe he is the messiah because they do not believe in his death and resurrection as a sacrifice for the salvation of mankind.

every one is a son of God but not every one is the only begotton son of God. jesus is the only begotton son of God.

Janosky:
"They (Muslims) do not believe in jesus the same way christians believe (in Jesus)."

That's the point you should have made clear at the outset.

.I made the point right from time. you did not read my post

MaxInDHouse:
All these are DOCTRINES the point is Muslims claims they believe in Jesus just like all others!

and the point I have shown is that muslims dont believe in jesus like the chriatians

Janosky:


Ignorance is a disease.
Oga,cure it now!

"Jesus, who is known as Isa in Arabic, nor do they consider him divine, but they do believe that he was a prophet or messenger of God and he is called the Messiah in the Quran. However, by affirming Jesus as Messiah they are attesting to his messianic message,"
Jesus in Islam - Wikipedia
en.m.wikipedia.org › wiki › Jesus_in_Isl...

hogwash. muslims dont consider jesus christ as the son of God neither do they believe he ressurected after death. every other thing you said is irrelevant.

Janosky:
Jesus Christ says himself is NOT the God of his disciples.
John 9:4. John 20:17 & Revelation 3:12, Oga do you agree with Jesus?
Acts 3:13 , do you agree with Peter the apostle?

john1:1-3. In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.He was with God in the beginning.Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.

nothing to argue futher.

MaxInDHouse:
They claim they believe in Jesus just as you also claim anything else is DOCTRINES!

do the muslims believe that jesus is the son of God? do the muslims believe that he died and ressurrected for their sins? these are the faith christians hold in jesus. if the muslims do not hold these beliefs then they do not believe in jesus the same way christians believe.

I dont know why you people like dragging issues unecesarily even when you know the truth.
make arguiments for the purpose of learning not for dragging issues.