₦airaland Forum

JackBizzle:
Em.piree? how far?

Your old friend here.

Why are you still posting rubbish videos?

I have a plane ticket to Afghanistan for you. I hear the sharia there is strong. You would love it.

cc user.mane

sagenaija:
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Islam speaks from both sides of the mouth.

1.On the Bible
The Bible version are TRANSLATIONS! Do you understand, Emp.iree? Or do you want that explained further?

Koran 10:94 - And if thou (Muhammad) art in doubt concerning that which We reveal unto thee, then question those who read the Scripture (that was) before thee. Verily the Truth from thy Lord hath come unto thee. So be not thou of the waverers.

If you say the Koran did not say 'Bible' then you have no right to refer to anywhere in the Koran to argue that the Koran states in it that the Bible has been changed. Do you get it? If, according to you, the Koran NOWHERE mentions the Bible then you cannot go back to the same Koran to argue that it says the book it never mentioned has been corrupted or changed. Also, you cannot go to the same book to affirm the prophet hood of Mohamed or anything in Islam like many of you do.

If you claim that what the Koran refers to as what 'the people of the book' had is lost or corrupted then you are admitting that the Koran is wrong in saying that Allah preserves his word. Do you know the implication of this as it affects even the Koran?

2. On "Quran was written down in his Mohamed's) lifetime"
The issue is not what Moslems agree or disagree on; the issue is what does your history show? If from your books we know that that it was those after Mohamed's death who started compiling the Koran but you are today telling us that Moslems now agree that it was already in one BOUND volume during the time of Mohamed who should we believe - your books or you?
Is it your agreement as Moslems that supersedes history? Should your agreement not, in fact, be based on what history, through your books, shows?
The simple fact is that the Koran was not one whole document during the time of Mohamed.

Your books tell us Zaid said "How dare you do a thing WHICH THE PROPHET HAS NOT DONE?" yet are claiming that your prophet had done it. Do you believe your books or just what you want to believe?

And if the Koran was not in a bound copy it is a serious issue because:
1. It means that Mohamed couldn't have systematically reviewed it with his companions like you claim.

If a hundred people have different portions of the Koran how will he go about reviewing it? Who will he call to bring what verse or chapter?
2. It means that the collection from parchments, scapula, leaf-stalk of date palms, etc can be questioned as not being of certain origin, as Abu Bakr had no existing document to check his collections with.

Your 'stories' tell us that Abu Bakr compiled a book from materials gathered from different sources; that Uthman did his own separate compilation after which he BURNT (an 'offence' Moslems will kill others for today!) other copies not acceptable to him; other different compilations happened hundreds of years after them YET you still claim "What they had is what we have". What who had? Abu Bakr? Uthman? Hafs? Wash?

b]3. You missed this but let me give it to you again: This is the recent research I talked about - [/b]
Scholars who drew mainly from the 7th century documents have come to the staggering conclusions that: the original Moslem sanctuary was in the northern hijaz, not in Mecca,

sagenaija:
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Unless one goes into long 'essays' you guys never think we're presenting plain facts.

You can't say that a report is faulty or wrong or false and then go to the same report to affirm something. In this case we are talking about the Bible: you cannot say on the one hand that it is corrupted and unreliable and then go back to it to prove that it affirms Islam in any way. It is either one or the other.

However, the Koran affirms the Bible. So, when you claim that it is corrupted you are turning against your Koran. Doesn't the Koran say that Allah preserves his revelations? If it is right then the Koran is wrong. Either way the Koran has no basis to stand.

Empi.ree, If the Koran was already written and in one bound volume during the time of Mohamed then what did Abu Bakr do? And what did Uthman do?
It is a well known fact that the first complete text was compiled during the Caliphate of Abu Bakr, after Mohamed's death:

b]Narrated Zaid bin Thabit Al-Ansari:[/b]

who was one of those who used to write the Divine Revelation: Abu Bakr sent for me after the (heavy) casualties among the warriors (of the battle) of Yamama (where a great number of Qurra' were killed). 'Umar was present with Abu Bakr who said, 'Umar has come to me and said, The people have suffered heavy casualties on the day of (the battle of) Yamama, and I am afraid that there will be more casualties among the Qurra' (those who know the Qur'an by heart) at other battle-fields, whereby a large part of the Qur'an MAY BE LOST, unless you collect it. And I am of the opinion that you should collect the Qur'an." Abu Bakr added, "I said to 'Umar, 'How can I do something WHICH ALLAH’S APOSTLE HAS NOT DONE?' 'Umar said (to me), 'By Allah, it is (really) a good thing.' So 'Umar kept on pressing, trying to persuade me to accept his proposal, till Allah opened my bosom for it and I had the same opinion as 'Umar." (Zaid bin Thabit added Umar was sitting with him (Abu Bakr) and was not speaking me. "You are a wise young man and we do not suspect you (of telling lies or of forgetfulness): and you used to write the Divine Inspiration for Allah's Apostle. Therefore, look for the Qur'an and collect it (in one manuscript)." By Allah, if he (Abu Bakr) had ordered me to shift one of the mountains (from its place) it would not have been harder for me than what he had ordered me concerning the collection of the Qur'an. I said to both of them, "How dare you do a thing WHICH THE PROPHET HAS NOT DONE?" Abu Bakr said, "By Allah, it is (really) a good thing. So I kept on arguing with him about it till Allah opened my bosom for that which He had opened the bosoms of Abu Bakr and Umar. So I started locating Qur'anic material and collecting it from parchments, scapula, leaf-stalks of date palms and from the memories of men (who knew it by heart). I found with Khuzaima two Verses of Surat-at-Tauba WHICH I HAD NOT FOUND WITH ANYONE ELSE, (and they were):--


"Verily there has come to you an Apostle (Muhammad) from amongst yourselves. It grieves him that you should receive any injury or difficulty He (Muhammad) is ardently anxious over you (to be rightly guided)" (9.128)

b]Did you notice what Abu Bakr initially said?
And you still believe that the Koran was in one single volume during the time of Mohamed?

But then maybe you guys want to rewrite history again in the 21st century to give us a new narrative. I will not be surprised if you even deny the above hadith.

Unlike the Holy Bible which has over 25,000 manuscripts with copies dating over two thousand years (i.e., Dead Sea Scrolls), the Koran’s manuscript evidence pales in comparison. Moreover, no two koranic manuscripts are identical (which is rather amusing in light of the repeated Moslem attack on the NT textual tradition.

Emp.iree, I thought that you are more intelligent than to query research. Are you thinking that research done TODAY cannot bring up new information about events of 2,000 years ago? If that's how you're reasoning then no wonder you've bought into the PROPAGANDA of Islam hook line and sinker.

According to the standard Islamic narrative, Mohamed started Islam as a new religion, distinct from Judaism and Christianity. But confirmation of that story is difficult, because it is based not on documents from that time – there are very few of them – but from eighth- and ninth-century literary sources, well past Mohamed’s lifetime.

Scholars who drew mainly from the 7th century documents have come to the staggering conclusions that: the original Moslem sanctuary was in the northern hijaz, not in Mecca, and that the story of Mohamed in Mecca was a later fiction, that Abu Bakr never existed but was "invented" when Mohamed's death was backdated. Etc.

b]The name Mohamed was not found in coins and INSCRIPTIONS until decades after he purportedly died[/b]. How come no archeological findings about Islam's origins has been found in Mecca?

Some have even said that 'Mohamed' is not a personal name but Arabic rendering of a Syriac word meaning "the highly praised one" which could well be a person other than Islamic Mohamed

So, when one of your scholars - Yasir Qadhi - said several months ago that "the standard narrative has HOLES in it" he knew what he was saying. (You may even also deny him here if his position challenges your own)

Just as Mathew and others wrote the Gospels, it was others who wrote what Mohamed recited. MOHAMED NEVER WROTE DOWN ANY PORTION OF THE KORAN!

We do not claim that the Gospels were written down during the time of Jesus. But we believe those who wrote the Gospels and the rest of the Bible were INSPIRED by God.

freshkpomo:
[color=#990000]Muslims sha, so because neighbors are killing each other now makes it right?

Hindu, Buddhism, Judaism, Charisinity. All preach love and tolerance. But you see some set of people that believe God is sleeping in heaven so he cannot work again, humans are the angel now doing ghetto work of God, going about killing people as their own way of serving gbeir creator. That's Satan, only Satan needs human sacrifice.

Will you call Judaism Pirated too because they have stopped persecuting Christians?

freshkpomo:

It's funny how Muslims think, [b]you don't see your brothers killing people as a problem. the only problem you see is Christianity. why can't you practice your Islam in peace and go meet your Allah in peace? Must you kill others to achieve this? Is your God and Idol that needs human sacrifice? Why is every terrorists group using the Quran? Imagine a terrorist group having Allah in their name calling themselves Allah's warrior.


Let me ask you this question, will you rather be neighbors with murderers or peace loving people? Birds of same feather flock together. You can't be reading a book telling you to terrorise humans and not be a terrorist yourself, that's why an average Muslim have this hate for Christian because the terrorism instinct keeps kicking. You can have mosques in Christian states or country, can you reciprocate that in Muslim dominant countries? You and your church will be burnt to the ground overnight.


it is better to live with a pirates bible saving lives, than an unpirated quran that is taking lives. [/b]

AllahIsShit:
I always find it funny that all followers of POOphet Sex Award Winner (SAW) know the truth about their stupid, degenerate "religion" but for some weird reason they remain as fascinated with Christianity as their illiterate child raping POOphet was

[

freshkpomo:
it's better to be in a Fake religion that does not take life than to be in a real [s]religion that see human life like that of a Goat. Who is dragging real or fake with you? It's clear for everyone to see that your so-called real religion is causing people so much pain and sorrow. Is that how sorrowful your real God is? No love for human life? All they care about is the 77 virgin? How about killing people for Apostasy? Is it lawful for a man in the first place to take a life he cannot create? A religion that urges people to fight and kill for their God, is that how real the God is that cannot be allowed to fight for himself?

Jesus was not the only one who came and allowed himself to be slaughtered, John the Baptist did same and these two people were very powerful and can control the supernatural to their favour, but what did they do? They chose peace over war.

Several cartoons have been drawn to mock Jesus, but just one about Mohammed you saw how it ended. On out death bed we will all know who supported good [/s]and evil.

Rotji:
I don't believe you are Christian, let alone one from the North. If you go back to the statement from the CAN Chairman he actually posited that Muslims are being killed and Kidnapped too but only because the whole activity has taken the shape of business and financial gains.

You can't be a Christian from the North and still argue that you have not experienced one form of persecution or the other, directly or indirectly. Mallam let's not go into what we'll not have space to put out there.
Right from the Bauchi crisis of 1991, 95, Jos Crisis of 2001 and a couple of others you cant imagine the persecutions I personnally have experienced.

I come in peace o

freshkpomo:
ISIS, AL SHABAB, TALIBAN, AL QAEDA and the rest are political groups too?


The truth is, the Quran needs a review like the Bible. The New Testament changed Christianity. That's why Jewish are still radical just like Muslims, they believe in the old law.

Safyqueen:
Mr man this assertion about the north being uneducated is in the past and not recent. Again what you call education is now very relative nowadays. If a typical Hausa Fulani man cannot speak English, it doesn't mean he is uneducated, he is not. If you are vast on modern world and know how knowledge is being defined and can be brought easily and freely to the doorstep of people in the remote villages together with the number of schools existing now in the north today, any zone that refer to the north as uneducated will continue to have themselves amazed when it comes to doing things together in Abuja.

CAN is projecting Nigeria to the world as if christain are being persecuted in the north whereas christain are integral part of the north and any menace taking place in the north cannot exonerate them. How do Boko Haram bomb select christain from other populace before blasting is just left to the imagination of CAN.

Nigeria has no religious problem. Our problem is political. Bad governance which have lead to massive corruption. Our laws are no more obeyed and trampled upon by those who created the law, the law enforcement agencies and the vanguard of law (jury).
We attends same schools, markets, hospitals and share same and all amenities in common.

This type of assertions from CAN is what makes every Muslims speculative about their activities whether they are not the Nigerians aiding the external/outsider hands to destroy the north through this menaces.

One cannot fathom the rationale behind this killings especially in the north west recently which are said to be perpetuated by Muslims (Fulani) against Muslims and christains association are claiming to be the victims.

Their GOs are claiming to have built thousands of churches around this country, they are using private jets, they own several Universities a poor man's children cannot attends not to talk of Muslims, the president will buy private jet as birthday gift for them if he is of their faith, yet they are still afraid if they see one mosque in the East. They will quickly mention TY Danjuma, Jerry Ghana etc as christains from the north but you can't mention such Muslims from the south east yet they still claim being oppressed.

GOD ALMIGHTY will deal decisively with the hypocrites and the evil doers.

tujays:
I am a Christian from the North, but shut up with this crap. There are more Churches In the whole of Nigeria than there are Mosques. So long as government doesn't interfere with religious rights especially in the North just like Chinese government are clamping down on Churches and mosques then Nigeria aint supposed to be Blacklisted. and it's a fact that Bokoharam have destroyed more Muslims and mosque than they have done to the churches. Sentiments aside. pure fact. you Don't know shiit about the North. Nigerian Christian are Hypocrites.

AnanseK:
If there is any religious group oppressing Nigerians it is the New commercialized Christian Religion which has almost overtaken the whole country East, West, North and South extorting gullible Nigerians with everybody becoming a Pastor with the plan of buying a jet and building an expensive elitist university.

The US, if they are honest and serious should list the church as the oppressor in Nigeria.

The CAN of worms think they can only be relevant through crying wolf when there is none . CAN is dangerous and hateful organization with evil people as its leaders since Ayo Oristejafor. They don’t believe in Jesus and his teachings.

Gadafii:
this is trash

I am born into an Islamic home, you and I know that if Christians had done 1/20 of what Boko Haram terrorists and Iswap are doing this country would have perished long ago, Christian's are actually very tolerant, because I know that if a religious based group in the south starts acting the way Boko Haram have been acting, setting of bombs in market places, schools, churches, akintola mumuric would have urged his fellow Muslims to kill Christian's anywhere they find them, Gumi would have advised the federal government to roll out tanks to the South to level everywhere, etc etc

tujays:
mumu people. nothing Christlike about this CAN of a thing. just a political tool. the fact is there are 3 times more churches In all corners of Nigeria Including the North than there are mosque buildings. In fact Nigeria is the only Country that exports churches to every country. Nigeria has some of the richest Pastors In the world. Bokoharam have destroyed more mosques and have killed more Muslims than Christians In the North east. before you quote me, I am a Christian and not a bigot. I only stand by fact and the truth. Nigeria can only be Blacklisted when government Interfere with religious rights just like China government are closing down on Churches and Mosque. Nigerian Christians are very hypocritical. fact.

louqas:
You are mixing things up.....there are several ways Muslims suffer from the hands of christians espin the south. Most of you look at plight of christians in the north but turn a blind eye on plight of muslims in the south. From language to educational curriculum to public holidays, southern muslims are at the mercy of christian tyranny and any moves by muslim bodies like MURIC are met with scorn.
You may not believe this but boko haram is not a religious group but a political group hiding behind religion to terrorise Nigerians. Its just like a pastor caught with a human head is not a pastor but a ritualist hiding behind christianity to commit evil.

Gadafii:
this is trash

I am born into an Islamic home, you and I know that if Christians had done 1/20 of what Boko Haram terrorists and Iswap are doing this country would have perished long ago, Christian's are actually very tolerant, because I know that if a religious based group in the south starts acting the way Boko Haram have been acting, setting of bombs in market places, schools, churches, akintola mumuric would have urged his fellow Muslims to kill Christian's anywhere they find them, Gumi would have advised the federal government to roll out tanks to the South to level everywhere, etc etc

97loodbre:
Let's be realistic and shun emotional sentiments.... There are hundreds of very big churches and cathedrals in Kano, Sokoto, Katsina, Jigawa, Kaduna, Zamfara and even Maiduguri. These are core muslim states in Nigeria. How many such big mosques or Islamic centres can you count or find in the south-south or South-East It's very unfortunate that some misguided elements and agents of the devil in the North such as Bokoharam and ISWAP are busy killing innocent christians, but they kill innocent muslims too. Thousands of muslims have been killed in the North by these agents of the devil, so I don't see why any right thinking person will generalize it and term Nigeria a christian persecuting country. It is just so nunfortunate the level of religious intolerance and misinformation some christian leaders chun out to their followers. May Nigeria succeed.

sagenaija:
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Emp.iree, can't you see that you contradicting yourself right here? The same Bible you claim is a story book is the same you run to in order to support your point. Who says that the portions you quote are correct and the ones I quote are wrong?

Let's not even go to the Koran. We've been there before. And we know it was equally 'Witnesses' that wrote the Koran. Mohamed even forgot some verses he had earlier given and had to be reminded. Not to mention that those who eventually compiled it were hundreds of miles away from the purported scene of events.

[b]Recent research shows that Islam as we know it today never came to be until the 9th or 10th century. Nothing of Islam can be traced back to the time of Mohamed ‐ no manuscripts, no coins, no rock inscriptions, qibla positions, etc. Do you guys have the assurance that Mohamed's works were acceptable to Allah, not to talk of yours? Don't you keep interceding for him?

You don't want to accept or understand the 'stories' of the Bible yet you want 'interpret' them. Isn't that interesting? Jesus did and said things for definite purposes. When you ignore the context you lose the meaning.

This is what the Scripture presents:
"Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God"
John 1:12 NIV

"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life."
John 3:16 NIV

"Jesus performed many other signs in the presence of his disciples, which are not recorded in this book. But these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Messiah, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name."
John 20:30‭-‬31

The standard of the God of the Bible is 100%. Nothing less. All the 'good works' in this world will qualify no one to meet up with God's standard because man has a fallen nature. No man is able to meet that standard. Only Jesus did. Therefore, anyone who comes to God through him is accepted by God. That, Emp.iree, is the simple gospel.

sagenaija:
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Think about these:
When you quoted passages from the Gospels it wasn't reported speech. Now that I quoted from same Gospels it is reported speech. Isn't that interesting?

Taking away sin means the means through which sin is paid for!

This is love: not that we loved God, but that he loved us and sent his Son as an atoning sacrifice for our sins.
1 John 4:10 NIV

He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.
1 John 2:2 NIV

sagenaija:
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Think about these:
Israel was expecting a Messiah.
This was after they've had Moses and the prophets. So, he was not just viewed as 'another prophet'.
Even your Koran calls Jesus "THE MESSIAH". Not a Messiah but the Messiah.

Mathew 1 - the angel's words to Joseph
"But after he had considered this, an angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream and said, “Joseph son of David, do not be afraid to take Mary home as your wife, because what is conceived in her is from the Holy Spirit. She will give birth to a son, and you are to give him the name Jesus, because he will save his people from their sins.”
Matthew 1:20‭-‬21 NIV

John 1 - John the Baptist's declaration
"The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said, “Look, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!"
John 1:29 NIV

Luke 4 - Jesus at the start of his work
"and the scroll of the prophet Isaiah was handed to him. Unrolling it, he found the place where it is written: “The Spirit of the Lord is on me, because he has anointed me to proclaim good news to the poor. He has sent me to proclaim freedom for the prisoners and recovery of sight for the blind, to set the oppressed free, to proclaim the year of the Lord’s favor.” Then he rolled up the scroll, gave it back to the attendant and sat down. The eyes of everyone in the synagogue were fastened on him. He began by saying to them, “Today this scripture is fulfilled in your hearing.”
Luke 4:17‭-‬21 NIV

Jesus's declaration
"Then he opened their minds so they could understand the Scriptures. He told them, “This is what is written: The Messiah will suffer and rise from the dead on the third day, and repentance for the forgiveness of sins will be preached in his name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem."
Luke 24:45‭-‬47 NIV

So, CLEARLY Jesus's primary mission to the world was to be the atoning sacrifice for mankind's sin.

MaxInDHouse:
I'm OK with whatever you choose since you're not ready to present the group practicing what your Qur'an teaches. I have presented the one and only group practicing what Jesus taught so until you're ready to discuss about your religion and mine do enjoy your weekend!

MaxInDHouse:
The only reason why you say all those different sects are Christians is because that's what they claim!
So going by the same logic any group of people no matter the harm they're causing in the society as long as they're claiming Muslims are Muslims!

I asked you to present one group of people practicing what your Qur'an teaches then you and i will concentrate on that group and use it as a case study to weigh what your Qur'an says with reality.
I presented JWs to you as the one and only group practicing what Jesus taught but you're irrationally confusing yourself saying you don't want to know since there are many religions claiming Christians.
So apply the same logic to your Islam don't come up with excuses!

If you're deceiving yourself you can't deceive me, i've been in Islam for more than thirty years before my conversion. I couldn't take it seriously because of different sects claiming Muslims and nobody was able to present one group for me to be sure of what the Qur'an teaches. You're now listing the names of sects that seems liberal in the society whereas there are others who are killer groups also claiming Muslims and they're ready to kill you for not supporting their movement.
The same thing is applicable to the churches of Christendom. I tried to know which of them is practicing what Jesus taught but all of them were beating about the bush until i met the JWs, this time the group opened the Bible and we started studying it, several times i argue furiously with them but i'm not the type that keeps on arguing blindly when i see facts.
That's why i believe that the JWs truly knows what Jesus taught.
So if you're now presenting several groups as Muslim groups all practicing what Qur'an teaches then what is the difference between you and the churchgoers?
My friend all of you are on the same page trying to present what the society will accept not what your book teaches.
If you're not specific regarding what i asked you then it's better we end it here, all groups claiming Christians are CHRISTIANS and all groups claiming Muslims are MUSLIMS.

NO STORY!

MaxInDHouse:
Stop behaving like a kid, the same thing is applicable to those you're calling Christians.
There is a reason why each of the groups were formed and the name "CHRISTIANS" appeals to them but if you want to know those who are practicing what the first century Jewish disciples of Jesus practice you can know.
You just don't want to know rather you're trying to group different sects claiming denominations of one religion together because they claim so.
The same should be applied to your religion, all those terrorist groups are claiming Muslims today and writing everything with Arabic so if you don't want people to call them Muslims it's OK you must listen to what others have to say in defense of what you're thinking but it's obvious you don't want that yet you want me to listen to your pathetic story regarding the creation of terrorist groups claiming Muslims.
So calm down and listen to know what happens or else all those killer groups are also Muslims after all that's what they're claiming!

MaxInDHouse:
The same applies to your religion:
Talib.an
Al-Kaeda
Alsha.bab
Bo.ko har.am
Isi.s
Are all using Qur'an and practice the five pillars of Islam so they're Muslims because they claim so!

MaxInDHouse:
Ògbéni if you don't care to know the group that's practicing what Jesus taught but calling all those claiming Christians "CHRISTIANS" then you shouldn't be irritated when someone calls terrorist groups claiming Muslims "Muslims"