₦airaland Forum

MaxInDHouse:
You're just as insane as many others claiming they belong to that religion!
I mentioned just one Islamic group killing people and you're already running mad
There are scores of killer groups all claiming Muslims and holding your Qur'an as their source of guidance, you can deny them here but everyone know sey them no born you well to stand face to face with a Taliban, Al-Kaeda, Alshabab, Boko haram, Isis or any of those groups and speak against their activities unless you want your head off your neck.
So present one group of worshipers practicing what your religion says i'm not interested in whatever your book says because it's gibberish to me until you present a group that befits people that can be referred to as worshipers of the true God.

Meanwhile below is an Islamic state where your Qur'an is highly valued and enforced yet these are Muslim prostitutes smoking weed and cooling it down with brandy or whiskey!

you have nothing to offer but hatred. You don't know your Bible. Abeg shift

sagenaija:
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Abdul Em.piree, Have you seen any Christian disagree on the fact that Jesus died for mankind's sin?

David Wood is saying, in case you missed it, that Islam has no reason to think that Christians cannot explain their position on the Godhead!

Moslems think that this is an objection Christians can't explain. But David Wood explained it and went on to show that even in Islam the objection can be seen.

You have deliberately and conveniently left that out and you are chasing shadows. When you attack the person and not his argument what does that make you?

Jesus didn't die for anybody's sin. He lived his life and he left, period.

You Christians are perpetrators of injustice on Jesus by saying he came to die for you whereas, your Bible says otherwise; “Fathers shall not be put to death because of their children, nor shall children be put to death because of their fathers. Each one shall be put to death for his own sin. Deuteronomy 24:16


Also in Ezekiel 18:20


"The one who sins is the one who will die. The child will not share the guilt of the parent, nor will the parent share the guilt of the child. The righteousness of the righteous will be credited to them, and the wickedness of the wicked will be charged against them"

He did not die for the sin of anyone. The idea of Jesus died for your sin is New Testament. It is idea that was innovated after Jesus.

"Blood of Jesus"

"Jesus died for your sin" etc are innovated doctrines


Based on the verses above, to claim that Jesus died on the cross for your sin denotes injustice.

Finally, Jesus was clear about the reason he came as recorded in Mark 1:38 and Luke 4:43



"And he said unto them, Let us go into the next towns, that I may preach there also: for therefore came I forth."




"And he said unto them, I must preach the kingdom of God to other cities also: for therefore am I sent."


So it is clear from these verses the reason Jesus came was to preach Good News not to die for you.

MaxInDHouse:
With this you're a living proof that Islam is a religion of terrorists!

How can you start quoting a book and instead of calmly asking questions to know my resolve regarding the book i choose to believe you're just asking questions irrationally without even giving me the chance to explain myself!

Please what is the difference between Boko Haram that's going about killing people over what they should believe and what they shouldn't believe?

My guy, your Qur'an stands as authority over you because you've reasoned with what you found written in it and you're convinced based on your understanding. So i'm not in position to start quoting the book you trust and telling you what you should believe rather i should be patient enough to grasp your understanding of the book before i can come in not the other way around.

So if you want to reason with others liberally you must allow them to tell you their conviction in relation to the book they regards as sacred. Otherwise i'll tell you to go and convince your terrorist brothers (Boko haram) that they're not interpreting your Qur'an in the right sense before crossing the boundaries to the Bible only to start correcting another religion over what their holy book says.
Haba, go and correct your own people carrying your Qur'an and interpreting it as a reason to kill innocent people!

I thought you have sense. I didn't know you are fake. Is it not obvious you are a liar for saying you were Muslim before. This stup!d lies they they taught you in your Bible studies you brought it to nairaland. I don't blame you. You all copied these lies from Paul the liar.

Paul said


“If through my lie, God's truth was magnified. Why am I judge as a sinner?” (Romans 3:7)



What is terror!sts, BH have to do with proving your religion?. You twice crossed my boundaries but I took it easy on you. You are obviously very ignorant. You have been programmed to tag Islam and muslims bad names. Your religion is false. You cant defend it. Yes I have the right to say your religion is false. You started attacking and comparing Islam with BH and terror!sm but I snubbed. Now you did it again just because you can't defend your Creed.

I thought you are well versed in your religion but I didn't realize you are super ignorant. No one restricted you from quoting from your Bible but you chose not to. Now you throw tantrum because i quoted your own Bible for you.

I said it before and I will say it again. Christianity or Jehovah's witness have nothing to do with Jesus. Jesus was sent ONLY to the Jews not Africans like you. I cited evidence and you get upset because of that?. Smh. You cant handle the truth.


There ya nothing like Jehovah's witnesses or Christianity. It is all man-made

Islam is one

Islam is the only religion from God. Q3:19, Q 3:85

Any other religions are counterfeits. Q3:85

All Muslim groups in the world practice same Islam

You feel better now that I bombarded you?

Join live

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=234412612122055&id=466503480576644

LadunaI:
It seems this is common to markarzey because is from Sheikh Zasili Sambo (May Allah be pleased with soul) I heard it from.

right. Al-miskin BiLlah is Murkazi

MaxInDHouse:
This is where you need to learn!
Your Qur'an stands as authority within those who accepts it as God's word not for everyone living around you.
To Illustrate imagine a citizen of Kenya who doesn't have anything to do with Nigeria, do you think it makes any sense quoting the laws made by the Nigerian National Assembly for him when he's not a Nigerian?
So your Qur'an only stands as authority within those that accepted it as the word of their God but to someone like me it's complete gibberish until you convince me that it's a message from the God i love to worship!

Alright then. Jesus was sent to Israelites ONLY. To use your logic against you, how did Jesus concern you?. His message was directed at the Jews, his people. Here are references from your own Bible

Matthew 15:24

He answered, “I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel

Question, are you Israelite or African?. You are African. How's Jesus your business?.




Matthew 1:21

She will give birth to a son, and you are to give him the name Jesus, because he will save his people from their sins

Question, are you Jewish?. Jesus was a Jew. So you are not his people.




John 1:11

He came to his own people, and his own people did not receive him.

Question, are you his people?. Are you Jewish tribe. No.




Luke 2:34

Then Simeon blessed them and said to Mary, his mother: “This child is destined to cause the falling and rising of many in Israel, and to be a sign that will be spoken against,

Question, are you Israeli?. No




Matthew 15:24
Matthew 2:6

But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

Question, are you Israeli?. No. How did Jesus teachings concern you as African?.


Interestingly, in order not to create confusion in the future about whom Jesus was sent to, he was emphatic by using the word ONLY. Do please check your dictionary for the meaning of ONLY?

Again you failed woefully!
If these groups are practicing what the Qur'an say yet they are different sects, you and i aren't kids nah,

what you failed to understand is that Islam is built on 5 tenets. Anyone that practices these 5 pillars of Islam is a Muslims regardless of groups they belong. This is where Islam stands out from all other religions including your Christianity and Jehovah's witnesses. Please show me any groups of the muslims that I mentioned and even that I didn't mention that don't practice all the 5 pillars of Islam?. So Islam doesn't have sects but groups doing the same thing. All other activities aside from 5 pillars are only ijtihad (strive) as long as they confirm with Islamic principles.

Here is evidence that Islam is built on 5 practices.


Ibn Umar reported: The Messenger of Allah, peace and blessings be upon him, said, "Islam is built upon five: to worship Allah and to disbelieve in what is worshiped besides him, to establish prayer, to give charity, to perform Hajj pilgrimage to the house, and to fast the month of Ramadan.”

Kindly tell me way of universal worship legislated for you in Christianity and let's see if you make sense?

i am telling you now that it's only JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES that's practicing what Jesus taught globally so if you can't point to one single group then i believe Bok.o har.am and other terrorists groups are also Muslims.

please show me evidence from your Bible where Jesus taught you global way of worship since you claimed to follow his teachings?

There must be strict tenets that only one group is practicing otherwise you don't know what your religion truly teach. You can't present five different sects in one country yet claiming they're all practicing what one book (Qur'an) teaches!

So far you have only been talking without evidence.

Baawaa:
This is more spiritual,
Every bird of darkness assigned to kill me,die in thy mighty name of Jesus

trash. Everything is spiritual in Nigeria. Nothing is natural again. Rubbish

The guy died doing what he did best. He died trying to save a life and he will get his handsome rewards. His time was up on earth but his means of transition to new world was thru electrocution. Nothing wrong with the bird. The bird is innocent of all the spiritual shit.

Jesu self will be quiet disappointed in you guys that turned Nigeria to spiritual shenanigan.

MaxInDHouse:
I have presented the one and only group practicing what Jesus taught to you, THEY ARE JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES!

I already rebuked and explained the concept of witnesses and God's witnesses. So that's clear.

Now it's your turn to present the group you know that's practicing Islam, i don't think that's my duty since you said i don't understand the religion and that's why i left.
So present the group you know that's practicing Islam let's learn from them!

Islam is not and groups. It is about practicing the religion as stipulated in the scripture (Qur'an). All Muslims and Muslim groups practice all tenets of Islam the same way.

Now, for the sake of those dialogue I will name just 5 groups in Nigeria only. Ansardeen, nasfat, Ahmadiya, Qorib, Awardeen. All practice Islam. Anything else you want to know?

sagenaija:
So, using your logic here, if lukg.af and Empir.ee disagree on a topic Empir
ee posts we should not bother ourselves with his postulations. It means his position is defeated because his fellow Moslem did not agree with him.

And you're the one who said:


Can anyone understand how you are reasoning in that statement?

The truth is that you understand David Wood's point. But because it doesn't help your cause you try to look for ways to ridicule it.

Look at how you've given long posts to 'win a convert' back to Islam yet you couldn't respond to a single thing in what David Wood said.

Btw, I've shown you before that what Mohamed said he was preaching was 'the religion of Abraham'. Not 'Islam'. Islam was created a hundred or more years after Mohamed died. Were they Shiites and Sunnis and co. in the time of Mohamed? Were you guys not mainly called Mohamedans at some point in time? Do some not still call you Mohamedans today?

I have also said and shown it repeatedly that Islam speaks from both sides of the mouth. You said the Koran said 'Abraham was neither a Jew .....'. But does the same Koran talk about 'Jews' and who their forebear was?

Islam (which actually means 'surrender') seeks to discredit every other thing but that which it puts forward. In the process it shoots itself in the foot.

Back to the thread topic: Do the 99 attributes of Allah mean that Allah is 99 beings?

You are too elementary for me jare and you boring to me. I will only address your first paragraph. No Muslim disagree on fundamental issues in Islam. But David Wood analysis was based on fundamental doctrines which JW in this group disagrees with. If you read him very well, he believes Jesus is messanger if God contrary to your Creed

MaxInDHouse:
My friend, Religion should be taken as God's arrangement to make man live like brothers and sisters not just where each person is only concerned with his personal matters.
Islam is just like any other religion that the world has known, it has nothing to do with our welfare but strictness to a deity that's of no practical benefit both to the worshipers or their neighbours.
If you carefully listen to a Hindu, Buddhist, Christendom, Atheist, Agnostic, Traditionalist and any other group having a school of thought you will notice that all of them have one thing in common:
How to reason on morals and healthy living!
But where all of them failed is how to connect others and carry them along in their line of thought!
Your religion may copy what the God of Israel says and start claiming they have something to do with that God but so much is missing in the link. That's why i keep searching for a religion that will beat my intellect not just a religion talking about holiness and sanctity of it's God because that's what all the religions do!


Jesus came from Israel and if there is nothing special about his teaching i won't have taken it seriously whether he's called God, Son of God or messenger of God.
I carefully read through his words and meditated thoroughly before i concluded that this person is totally different from all others i have come across their teachings when talking about someone from God, his teachings beat all human wisdom.
So i picked interest and after been satisfied that Jesus has what it takes to be called a messenger of God i started looking for the group that's practicing what he taught.
As for Islam it's a complete failure but before you start arguing can you present a group of people claiming Muslims and practicing what that your religion teaches?
Remember that there are terrorist groups using your Qur'an and killing innocent people up and down, i don't want to believe that those ones are true Muslims so i'll like to know from you the name of a group that's practicing Islam exactly the way it should be.
As for Christianity i only told you that it's not the name JEHOVAH chose to call his worshipers but our first century brothers welcomed the development because it makes them happy that they were vilified along with Jesus Christ. There is a group practicing what Jesus taught today and they are known as Jehovah's Witnesses.

So present a group practicing what Islam teaches then let's step out of the box (Religion) for a moment and use our God's given brains to decipher which of the two truly befits to be called worshipers of God!

Okay now, you have chosen to cross the boundaries by attacking Islam and comparing Islam with ridiculous stuff. I honestly want to refrain from saying much about all that. I only want to point important thing you pointed out. I highlighted it above. Can you tell me which group is truly practicing what Jesus taught?.

Listen bro, I have been cool. I know JW witnesses very well. I have encountered them million times.

Just a tip of the iceberg, can you tell us who created those terror!st groups?. Are there creators Muslims?. Go ahead

sagenaija:
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As if Moslems don't have their own fair share of groups.
Why attack the man instead of debunking his arguments?
It simply shows that you have no reasonable response to his arguments.

since your fellow christians themselves rejected David Wood's theory, why should I even bother myself?

MaxInDHouse:
I was also a Muslim before i converted to JW

It means you didn't know what you were doing not did you know Islam. Since you are a JW, for a record, here is our brief dialogue with a JW at Adiyan.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U9AJoPGx_jE

First of all the true God of Israel never called His worshipers "CHRISTIANS" neither did Jesus mention anything as such. So how did Jesus' first century disciples got that name?

You are probably the first Christian that ever said the truth on this unlike other Christians who tried all means possible to link Christianity/Christians to Jesus.

Now, for the fact that you admitted to this fact, this alone rebuked you. Is Jesus didn't call himself or his followers Christians, all subsequent claims relating to Jesus are questionable.

In the Quran, God made it as plain and as clear as possible that Jesus and his disciples were called Muslims .


Then when 'Iesa (Jesus) came to know of their disbelief, he said: "Who will be my helpers in Allah's Cause?" Al-Hawariun (the disciples) said: "We are the helpers of Allah; we believe in Allah, and bear witness that we are Muslims (i.e. we submit to Allah)." Q3:52


"Abraham was neither Jewish , nor Christian; he was a monotheist; a Muslim; he never was an idol-worshiper. The people most worthy of following Abraham are those who follow him and this prophet (Muhammed), and those who believed. God is the Lord of the believers". [Quran 3:67-68]

They were trying as much as possible to do things the way Jesus instructed them because he told them that it's not by calling him Lord! Lord!! or bowing or kneeling before him that matters rather they must do the will of his father who is in heaven (God) Matthew 7:21-23

Good. What is the will of the Father in heaven?

The reason is because many back then acknowledged Jesus as Lord they keep calling him "Lord" and kneeling before him but they missed the import of his message:

Jesus was simply their rabbi. This is what Bible writer mischievously translated as Lord which is very wrong.

Before anyone can qualify for everlasting life he/she must become an imitator of Jesus Christ in thoughts, words and actions. This requires great humility from each person as we must abandon what we prefer doing and cling unto what Jesus taught us. Luke 9:23

So far you are dealing with noble character. Character or trying to imitate good character of Jesus by is what we called "sunnah". This is secondary issue. In the bible, we read that the first of all commandments is acknowledgement and worship of One God. Mark 12:29 & Deuteronomy 6:4

That is what the inhabitants of Antioch saw in them before they nicknamed them "CHRISTIANS" in fact it was a mockery back then as whoever is known by that group name is considered a slowpoke who can't think by himself but always adhering to Jesus' words.

I think by now you should wake up from your slumber. If Jesus didn't call himself Christian not did he acknowledge the name Christianity, then, no one had the authority to call followers of Jesus "Christians". Quran clear from the verse o quoted up there Q3:52. According to you the disciples were called Christians after Jesus. But Quran said the disciples called themselves Muslim right in the presence of Jesus. Which one is more credible?. Muslim is someone who submits totally to the God in Islam. Islam means submission. Muslim is submitter.

Many of them were arrested and killed just like their leader yet they will not fight back nor compromise their faith. So the inhabitants of Antioch began calling them by that group name to vilify them. But Jesus' followers welcome the new development with joy and they're now sure that they are doing exactly what their leader taught them! Matthew 10:32-33

So the Antioch who were disbelievers named Jesus disciples "Christians" and you think that automatically means they followed Jesus?. That's awkward. What happened was that the word "Christian" was coined from christo which is Greek word which means "anointed". So from Christian they derived Christianity. Hence Jesus was anointed by God.

So the group name CHRISTIAN is not what God wants to call His worshipers the inhabitants of Antioch were using it to mock Jesus' disciples.

but you adopted the name, Christian. If God didn't want His worship but that name, this means Quran is right when says:

"Abraham was neither a Jew, nor a Christian but a true Muslim" - Q3:67

God has foretold through Isaiah the prophet that his true worshipers will be mocked with a name, they will drop it for Satan's agents who will later carry it on their head, but the true God will call His own worshipers by another name and destroy all those hypocrites using that mockery name as a disguise to perpetrate evil!

And ye shall leave your name for a curse unto my chosen: for the Lord GOD shall slay thee, and call his servants by another name: Isaiah 65:15

meaning, Christianity/Christians cursed. From your downright testimonies so far show Christianity/Christian did not exist in the time of Jesus nor was it granted authority.

So my friend, the name "CHRISTIANS" wasn't God's choice rather God permitted His people to bear that mockery until Jesus separated his true disciples from the midst of misinformed Churchgoers {Matthew 13:30} the name God has always called His worshipers are "His Witnesses" {Isaiah 43:10-12} Apostle Paul also confirmed this when he wrote a letter to the Hebrew speaking congregation and after listing the names of ancient servants of God {Hebrews 11:4-32} Paul declared that they are WITNESSES of the true God! Hebrews 12:1

Am just loving the fact that you are very truthful and straightforward. So now, it is clear that Christian/Christianity are non-existent. Thanks for clarification. This is very noted. Now, as for the "WITNESSES" you mentioned, Quran confirmed this when Jesus asked his followers:


"Who will be my helpers in God's Cause?" The disciples said: "We are the helpers of God; we believe in God, and bear witness that we are Muslims (i.e. we submit to Allah)." Q3:52

You get it yet, brother?

So from Abel to Jesus Christ himself and true servants of God today we are all JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES! Revelations 1:5

May you have PEACE!

the term, witness, is used many times in the Quran in similar context. I will give you just two references.


"Strive hard for God as is His due: He has chosen you and placed no hardship in your religion(Islam), the faith of your forefather Abraham. God has called you Muslims––both in the past and in this [message]––so that the Messenger can bear witness about you and so that you can bear witness over mankind. So keep up the prayer, give the prescribed alms, and seek refuge in God: He is your protector––an excellent protector and an excellent helper". Q22:78




"Indeed, We have sent to you a Messenger as a witness upon you...." Q 73:15


So Jehovah's witness literally means 'God's witnesses' which is what God called Muslims in the Quran, that Muslims are witnesses to God and over mankind.

Even in sura 3 of the Bible Quran, God said He breast witness for Himself and Angels also bear witness


God (Himself) is Witness that there is no God save Him. And the angels and the men of learning (too are witness). Maintaining His creation in justice, there is no gods save Him (God) the Almighty, the Wise.

CHRISTIANITY Re-colonization of Nigeria Has Started


Mr. Governor Sir, Muslims are the most tolerant people as you may also attest to, but for the Christian folks to add insults to our injuries is a privilege taken too far.

It may interest your Excellency to know some of the schools visited by this so called GREAT GOSPEL CRUSADERS include:

1. Yejide Girls Grammar School, Molete, Ibadan.

2. Anglican Grammar School, Molete.

3. Basorun Ojoo High School, Bashorun

4. Community Grammar School, Laniba

5. Aperin Boys’ High School

6. Pegba Community High School, Pegba

7. Olunde Community High School, Olunde.

8. Ifelodun Community Secondary School, Muslim Area, Ibadan

9. Abbey Technical, Odo-ona Elewe, Ibadan

10. Community High School, Sasa

11. Loyola College, Ibadan

12. Government Sec. School, Orita Aperin

13. Government Technical College, Orita Aperin

14. Jericho High School, Ibadan

15. Abadina College, U. I., Ibadan

16. Lalupon Community Grammar School, Lalupon

17. Methodist Grammar School, Bodija

18. Gbekuba Community School, Gbekuba, Ibadan.
just to mention but a few.

A man of great integrity and deep sense of public service could not dare to be so partisan as the Chairman of TESCOM appears. How could he have allowed an international Christian Evangelist preachers to the unsuspecting Muslim Students in public schools because you are a pastor heading TESCOM. You sowing winds; he who sows wind will reap whirlwind!

OUR DEMANDS

1. Immediate sack and termination of the appointment of the Chairman Teaching Service Commission (TESCOM) in person of Pastor Akinade Alamu as he is not fit to hold a public office in a multi religious environment such as ours.

2. Immediate sack or at worst demotion of Permanent Secretary TESCOM in person of Mrs. Grace Olabisi Oderinde for negligence of duty.

3. Immediate demotion and re-deployment of affected school Principals for their incompetence.

4. Upholding UNESCO declaration on public schools to prevent future occurrence.



Yours in the service of the Nation,

Signed


Alhaji Luqman Onaolapo
Co-ordinator

Abdul Jalil Abdur Razaq
Secretary
CC:

- His Excellency, Deputy Governor of Oyo State
- State Director of DSS
- Commissioner of Police, Oyo State
- Commissioner of Education, Oyo State
- Chairman, Teaching Service Commission (TESCOM), Oyo State
- Permanent Secretary, Teaching Service Commission (TESCOM), Oyo State
- The Chief Imam of Ibadanland
- Aare Musulumi of Yorubaland, Edo and Delta States
- Executive Secretary, MUSWEN
- Muslim Community of Oyo State
- National Council of Muslim Youth Organisations (NACOMYO), Oyo State
- Muslim Students Society of Nigeria (MSSN), Oyo State Area Unit
- S.A. to Executive Governor on Islamic Affairs
- Muslim Lawyers Association (MULAN), Oyo State Chapter
- Political Awareness Group (PAG), Oyo State
- MURIC, Oyo State Chapter
- Federation of Ahlul-Sunnah Organisations (FASON)
- Muslim Media Practitioners of Nigeria (MMPN), Oyo State Chapter
- Federation of Muslim Women Association of Nigeria (FOMWAN), Oyo State
- Association of Model Islamic Schools (AMIS), Oyo State Chapter

Concerned Muslim Organisations, Oyo State


A ‘deep apology letter’ was purportedly written by the organiser of the said crusade on the 10th of November, 2021 to the Chairman TESCOM through the Permanent Secretary claiming thus; “it has come to our notice that one of our team visited a public school in their outreach. We are sorry for this error as it was done without our knowledge”. This letter dated 10th November. 2021, was delivered and acknowledged same day by TESCOM. When a group claiming to be working for God wrote such a letter, a sane man ought to believe that it was actually done in error as claimed and that TESCOM would come out with clear instruction to its work force on the field.
But to our dismay, TESCOM has done nothing to bring this unholy situation under control. On the contrary, the crusade to public schools continued unabated till Friday 12th November 2021. The Crusaders’ were seen calling out Muslim pupils to abandon their classes and lessons and were encouraged to give their lives to Jesus Christ as their Lord and Saviour. Not only is this contrary to the provisions of Nigeria’s constitution, the action of these crusaders constitute open invitation to religious war and the enthronement of anarchy in this state. Propositioning students in public schools and their invitation to abandon the religion of their parents through odious and brazen proselytization constitute an egregious infraction of their rights and that of their parents. It is unarguably the worst injustice that a government agency could perpetrate against the citizens of the state.


Second Christianity Crusade: An Agenda To Christianize Nigeria

Concerned Muslim Organisations, Oyo State

15th November, 2021

His Excellency,
Engr. Seyi Makinde,
The Executive Governor of Oyo State,
Governor’s Office,
Secretariat Ibadan.

Dear Sir,

TESCOM CHAIRMAN - AN IMPLACABLE PROMOTER OF INJUSTICE

All praises and adorations are due to Almighty Allah, the Bestower of power to whomever He wills, may His choicest blessing continued to be with the best of mankind, Noble Prophet Muhammad (S.A.W.).

The above named umbrella Organisation wishes to bring to your notice Sir, the shattering pain, fear, confusion and cloud of despondency- the action of your political appointee in person of Pastor Akinade Alamu with collaboration of the Permanent Secretary Teaching Service Commission (TESCOM) Mrs. Grace Olabisi Oderinde inflicted upon the Muslim Ummah of our noble state.

As parents and stakeholders, we are “concerned” about the evangelisation of a carefully laid down plan of a foreign evangelist called Daniel Kolenda under the auspices of GREAT GOSPEL CRUSADE in our public schools across the city of Ibadan and its environs. Therefore, there is no gainsaying in the fact that Pastor Alamu and TESCOM Permanent Secretary had fore knowledge of the said GOSPEL CRUSADE.


Second Christianity Crusade In Yorùbáland Has Begun

Dtruthspeaker:
See, UNABLE TO COUNTER!

You are just complaining about the great difficulty experienced in finding a valid counter, but finding none.

THERE IS NO VALID ARGUMENT AGAINST THE TRUTH.

None whatsoever!

The foolish thing for muslims to do is try to argue with David Wood's gibberish. His analysis is Christians vs Christians because not all Christians believe the Trinity.

So, here is a Christian response

MaxInDH.ouse:
David Wood is just one of them (the Churchgoers)
Jesus laid down the principle that will help you IDENTIFY the true Christians it's written in the Bible

This fellow here is saying that David Wood is not a Christian. Why should a Muslim try to debunk rubbish that doesn't hold water?.

My friend, David Wood is seeking attention. He realized he's not longer relevant. He never was actually.

MaxInDHouse:
David Wood is just one of them (the Churchgoers)

Case is closed. Since you pretty much disagree with David Wood and you are Christian, then, Muslims like me don't need to try to argue on this video or to try to rationalize his rubbish.

Jesus laid down the principle that will help you IDENTIFY the true Christians it's written in the Bible so even if you're not interested in Christianity you can still distinguish between the real Christians and misinformed Churchgoers! Matthew 7:16-18

I will be interested knowing from the bible where Jesus mentioned Christian, Christianity and the principles of Christianity.

MaxInDHouse:
Naaaaaaaaaaaaa!

A Churchgoer is one who is born into a religion he/she can't explain or someone brainwashed to carry credulous thoughts in his/her head.

While a Christian is the one who has what it takes to convince anyone that he knows the right thing.

So when a Churchgoer is given the opportunity to talk about his believes you'll continue to wonder how he/she could have accepted such ideas because if someone is not brought up with such ideas it will be impossible for a normal person to accept it. But when a Christian is allowed to speak about his faith any listener will feel the touch and it will be either you wish to be like him if you're sincere {Act 26:24-28} or start thinking of how to silence him if you're the insincere type! Act 4:13,18; 5:33

Nobody can listen to a real followers of Christ and remain the same, if you love the truth you will continue to long for more but if you hate the truth you will look for ways to silence them!

Do you then agree with DW's analysis?. Remember the guy you labeled Churchgoer in his writeup was trying to validate DW's. The implication is that DW himself is churchgoer by his jargon, correct?

MaxInDHouse:
You need to know how to distinguish between the Christians and misinformed Churchgoers!

A church-goer is still Christian, isn't?

Kenneth4u205:
When two or more people agree in everything ,they are collectively referred to as one . God the father ,son and Holy spirit agree in everything .acts in Union .that's why they are referred as one.

Same way husband and wife are referred to as one in the Bible,even though they are two individuals.

Same way we are collectively referred to as Nigeria ,even though Nigeria is made up of atleast 250 million individuals.

I don't understand how Christians reason. See logic...smh

VIDEO | Tolerance or violation of fundamental rights of Muslims in Southwest?

We can no longer hide away from the fact that the fundamental rights of Muslims in the Southwest region of Nigeria are being grossly violated by their non-Muslim neighbours. Evidence are too numerous to mention even though some still hide under this denial, calling it tolerance. The earlier we all admit and find a lasting solution, the better for us all, and the greater for Nigeria, our dear country. To start with, some people should be prosecuted for the recent forceful preaching in Oyo state public schools. Watch >>
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6A_K8aKM1O0

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ikupakuti:
@Laduna1,


But in regards to the quoted hadith, the class of wilayya described by the holy Prophet (s.a.w) there in, is the superior class (wilayyatul kubra), which comes after the completion of ma‘arifa & after individuality has been attained, @least from fardaniyya to qutbaniyyatul uzma.

Those are the ones who have access to محبة الذات , the unique divine love he‘s refering to.



That state is momentarily accessible (hal) for the floor members of wilayyatul kubra but a permanent state (maqam) for the al-qutbul al-jami‘. Those qualities mentioned are strictly qutbaniyya‘s affair.

Memory I always love when Sheikh Sulaimon Faruq Onikijika Al-miskin BiLlah distinguishes Sheikh Adam Abdullah Al-ilory (ra) with the title صاحب ولاية کبریٰ in all of his lectures.

"Ike Olohun, Ola Olohun ko lo ma baba wa صاحب ولاية کبریٰ fadilatul Sheikh Adam Abdullah Al-ilory"

Greenholics:
Hi W. sallam (hope i spelt that well), I have been an Atheist almost all my life but recently started reading the Quran (and some hadith) and i sincerely love it but there are alot of i cant wrap my head around.

Are they muslims here that can maybe help me and others like me ask questions we are ot clear about, have peaceful conversations (no fight, insult or any form of negativity) lets just share ideas and understand of the Quran (history and science) with each other and help our faith grow.


Who is a true muslim? What are the attributes of a true Muslim.

you should have opened this thread in Islam section for better responses

They say they are habitually ridiculed for their faith, sneered at for their Muslim sartorial choices, alienated and rhetorically marginalized, and outright denied opportunities by people with whom they share the same ethnicity. Several of them are forced to convert to Christianity or hide their faith to fit in.

Just the other day, on November 3, Premium Times published a story of the appointment of a 45-year-old professor of geo-technical engineering by the name of Afeez Bello as acting Vice Chancellor of the Osun State University in Osogbo. The photo of Bello that the paper used to illustrate the story was of a heavily bearded man with a Muslim felt hat.

Apparently, that sartorial symbol of male Muslim identity was like a red rag to a bull among Christian Facebook commenters, most of whom were Yoruba. The man was called “Boko Haram,” “Shekau’s reincarnation,” a “fanatic,” and all sorts of other cruel slanders and unwarrantedly unmentionable vituperations. I was emotionally distraught after reading a sample of the comments. I inflicted self-torture on myself.

The truth is that the famed religious ecumenicalism and tolerance of the Yoruba people is often achieved at the expense of Yoruba Muslims. It is they, and not their Christian brothers and sisters, who must always perform religious tolerance. (In his interview with the YouTube news channel, even Sikiru felt compelled to say that 95 percent of his friends are Christians and that he hadn’t closed off the possibility that he could convert to Christianity at some point in his life.)

It is Yoruba Muslims who are required to downplay or hide their religious identity in the interest of an overarching Yoruba identity because, over the last few decades, Christianity has been rhetorically constituted in the popular imagination as a core constituent in the construction of Yoruba identity. That’s why prominent Yoruba Muslims almost always have to invoke their connection to Christianity to fit in.

The late Gani Fawehinmi always had a need to show that his wife was a Christian. Bola Ahmed Tinubu has a need to strategically let it be known that his wife isn’t only a Christian but a deacon. House of Representatives Speaker Olufemi Hakeem Gbajabiamila concealed his Muslim identity until he needed the support of the Muslim North to become Speaker. After the fact, his handlers played up the fact that his wife and his mother are Christians.

Prince Bola Ajibola, one of Africa’s finest jurists who happens to be a devout Muslim, doesn’t openly bear Abduljabar, his Muslim name—unlike his father who bore Abdulsalam as his first name—perhaps, not being married to a Christian, it was his only way to reassure his Christian Yoruba brothers and sisters that he is Yoruba. Yet, he is so strong in his Muslim faith that he established the Crescent University, one of Nigeria’s first private Islamic universities, in his hometown of Abeokuta.

Although Muslims constitute a numerical majority in Yoruba land, they are a symbolic minority and are perpetually put in a position to prove their “Yorubaness.” For instance, in the heat of the debate over the formation of Amotekun to ward off “Fulani bandits,” Bolaji Aluko, who was a professor here in the United States and who is now a prominent Ekiti State government official, used the moment to stealthily alienate Yoruba Muslims in his state.

In a January 25, 2021 article titled “Sunday Musings: On the Matter of Farmer-Herdsmen Clashes in Ekiti State,” he wrote, among other things, “Our Muslim Yoruba citizens must decide whether the Umma principle of brotherhood is greater that [sic] the collective security of our Yoruba citizenry." As I told him then, there are at least four ways in which he was wrong.

First, he exoticized, needlessly put Yoruba Muslims on the spot, and created a false binary between being Muslim and being Yoruba, even though (nominal) Muslims constitute the majority in Oyo, Osun, Ogun, and Lagos states. Islam has been in Yorubaland since at least the 1400s. The first mosque was built in Oyo-Ile, the ancient capital of the Oyo Empire, in 1550, that is, centuries before colonialism.

Second, Yoruba Muslims are themselves victims of the homicidal fury of Fulani brigands. If being Muslim hasn't immunized Yoruba Muslims against sanguinary clashes with Fulani people, why should they be singled out as people who are suspect, as people who might betray non-Muslim Yoruba people to the Fulani out of "the Umma principle of brotherhood," which, by the way, is nonsensical, meaningless verbiage?

Third, Aluko’s claim assumes that all Fulani brigands are Muslims (they are NOT) and that they are committing their crimes on behalf of Islam, which would predispose them spare Yoruba Muslims in the spirit of "the Umma principle of brotherhood." But nothing can be more ignorant and bigoted than that.

If "Umma principle of brotherhood" (whatever the heck that means) were a thing, Muslims in Katsina, Zamfara, Kaduna, Niger, and elsewhere (who are also incidentally Fulani, Hausa, or "Hausa-Fulani" wouldn't be killed, kidnapped, and overawed by criminally bloodthirsty Fulani brigands. Mosques wouldn’t be invaded, and imams and worshipers kidnapped and murdered. That should tell anyone that this isn't about religion or even ethnicity.

Sadly, Yoruba Muslims have no voice and seem to have accepted their fate with listless resignation. Not being a Yoruba myself, I know I will be viciously attacked by the people who lubricate and enjoy the current hegemonic high ground that puts Yoruba Muslims at the lower end of the totem pole, but I am not one to shy away from telling the truth because of fear of attacks. I resist injustice no matter who the victims or the perpetrators are.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZJgIZvkjqPo

Ikoyi Tragedy and Casual Bigotry Against Yoruba Muslims.

By Farooq A. Kperogi

Amid the grief of the heartrendingly tragic collapse of the 21-storey luxury apartment building in Ikoyi, Lagos, a sadly familiar, barely acknowledged but nonetheless insidiously widespread anti-Muslim bigotry in Yoruba land came to light.

A Yoruba Muslim by the name of Adebowale Sikiru revealed in an interview with a YouTube news channel called AN 24 that he was rejected for a job at the Ikoyi construction site because of his Muslim faith. He applied for the position of a site engineer and was found qualified enough to deserve being invited for an interview by Femi Osibona, the MD of Foursquare Homes, the firm that managed the construction of the ill-fated multi-storey building.

After the interview, Sikiru said Osibona asked him what church he attended, and he responded that he was a Muslim. “Ah, I can’t work with a Muslim,” Sikiru quoted Osibona to have said. Osibona reportedly said in Yoruba that he couldn’t work with someone whose response to his chant of “Praise God!” would be “Alhamdulillah!”

When Sikiru told him of his struggles with getting gainfully employed after graduation, Osibona also reportedly said it was probably because of his Muslim faith that he was not “able to make a headway” in life. “He said that in front of even the bricklayers” and many others at the site, Sikiru said.

Sikiru left the site sad, humiliated, and deflated, but a friend of his who brought his attention to the job he had interviewed for called him while he was on his way back home. The friend wanted to find out if he was trapped in the building that had collapsed a few hours earlier. That was the time it dawned on Sikiru that his rejection and humiliation on account of his faith ironically saved him from death.

Unfortunately, Osibona died in the collapsed building, so we have no way of getting his own side of the story. Nonetheless, it doesn’t seem plausible that Sikiru, who didn’t even come across as a devout Muslim during his interview with AN 24, would just wake up and invent the encounter with Osibona. Plus, videos that have emerged of Osibona’s meretriciously outward displays of his Christianity and evangelical exhibitionism are consistent with Sikiru’s account of his encounter with him.

More than that, though, it merely instantiates the casual bigotry that Yoruba Muslims routinely contend with in their own natal region on account of their faith, which I’ve known for years.

I followed the social media conversations that Sikiru’s encounter with Osibona triggered among Yoruba Muslims and came away with the distinct impression that many Yoruba Muslims are seething with frustration and deep-seated inferiority complex on account of their faith-based systematic exclusion and demonization, but they are grinning and bearing their fate in smoldering silence out of social pressure, out of anxieties about social ostracism. We call this the spectacle of the spiral of silence in communication theory.

A Facebook friend of mine by the name of Ganiyu Oludare Lasisi who now lives and works in Scotland narrated how he was denied a job to teach high school geography in his hometown of Abeokuta because of his Muslim faith. He has an Upper Second-Class honors degree in Geography and a distinction in the subject in his “O” level. But “on the day of the interview,” Lasisi said, “the school owner/founder (also a pastor) rejected me because of my Muslim name (Ganiyu). I was so sad and angry then. He even suggested that I can convert to Christianity and change Ganiyu to Gabriel.”

In their safe spaces, multiple Yoruba Muslims shared similar such anecdotal encounters of causal bigotry.

Ikoyi Tragedy and Casual Bigotry Against Yoruba Muslims: My Views, My Experiences – By Alhaja Adeola Agoro

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I looked a complete I-don’t-care type – a yuppy woman. After the television program, along with some other journalists, I went for more exclusive interview for my newspaper and despite Yerima’s stance on Sharia, he didn’t as much as look at me as a sinner for once.

The biggest part of it is that when I returned to Nigeria and applied to be one of his media consultants, he gave me the chance without delay. There I was, a Christian and a woman for that matter!I was treated with much respect and dignity and everybody around him respected me for what I had to offer – my brain.

Whenever I had a job to discuss with him or show him, he would attend to me but he never allowed us to be alone together. And when it was time for prayer, they would all go for prayers and come back to resume whatever I had to show him.

It was around that time that I began to feel naked by not covering my head and body. Something in me told me it wasn’t right. Yerima and those around him preached to me through their behaviours without saying a word. They accepted me the way I was. They worked with me without discrimination and they made me see what beauty there was in Islam.

In those days of surrendering to the silent and beautiful pull of Islam, I couldn’t stop asking myself if any of those I grew up with in my Christian background would be so accommodating. Would they give a Muslim woman a chance to work with them, dine with them, make money and not go to church with them?

Would they have a very attractive Muslim woman around them and not as much as make a pass at her?I doubt. Seriously, I doubt.

From Justice Babatunde Adejumo, President of the National Industrial Court to my mentor and father, Sen. Umaru Dahiru through whom I finally embraced Islam, through whom I went for Hadj, through whom I grew in faith and through whom I have learnt a lot, to Arch. Halima Tayo Alao, to Dr. Mahmuda Aliyu Shinkafi and so many others, I have been given opportunities by a lot of Muslims without any asking for anything in return.

These are all people of deep faith who never asked me to compromise my former religion till I was personally convinced. I am indeed lucky to have seen the light of Islam myself through the conducts of these Muslim people.

These people showed the way to Islam more through deep love and acceptance of everybody whatever your religion than through talks. May Allah continue to guide them in their faith and make them lead more to Him through their conducts, ameen.’

That’s that about the second chapter of the book.

I’ve not come here to say I agree or disagree with Kperogi, but I know that a Muslim will most likely accept you for a job or marriage or anything sooner than a Christian will.


Well…. I stand to be corrected after so many years of holding that belief.

–Alhaja Adeola Agoro JP writes from Abuja

Ikoyi Tragedy and Casual Bigotry Against Yoruba Muslims: My Views, My Experiences – By Alhaja Adeola Agoro


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You were not quite different from a Muslim in the estimation of the holier-than-thou Christians). But things did not have that kind of colouration the moment I stepped out into the real world. From the moment I left home for my higher education till the moment I embraced Islam, it never mattered to the Muslims I met whether I was a Christian or Muslim or traditionalist before help came my way. All that mattered was the fact that I was a human being. And very much unlike what I grew up to know with somebody preaching to you that you must accept Christ to enter heaven and bearing heavily on your whether you wanted to talk religion or not, the Muslims I met NEVER tried to talk to me about their faith in a you-must-accept-it-by-force manner.

To this day, no Muslim that I met in those days condemned my religion.I would sit and dine with Muslims and we would be talking but the moment it was time for prayer, they would excuse themselves, do their ablution and quietly withdraw to pray without as much as invite you. If you visited them on Fridays, they would leave you in their house, go to mosque to pray and come back to meet you. Not only were they respectful of your religion, they trusted you with their possessions.

I wonder if there are Christians who would leave you in their house on a Sunday when going to church without pressurizing you to go to church with them – whatever your religion or sect.This was my unprejudiced observation until I met Yerima. Sen. Ahmed Sani popularly known as Yerima was the Governor of Zamfara State then.Yerima came into national prominence for the introduction of Sharia Law to Zamfara State. Under him, the Penal Code became more effective and whoever erred or contravened the law faced summary actions.

The name Yerima meant fear to non-Muslims outside his state. It was the general opinion that if you were not a Muslim, you couldn’t be safe near a fanatic like Yerima and in fact, you had no business being in Zamfara. I had started making a mark in journalism when one day, a friend I went to school with called to say she met Yerima’s ADC and discussed the prospects of me coming down to Zamfara to interview the governor. Without thinking about it for a moment, I turned down the opportunity.

Me, Yerima? No way!! As hungry as I was for good stories, I didn’t think Yerima was an area I could approach and I thought I was not the kind of journalist he would want near him for an interview. After all, I was a jean-wearing journalist with braids and totally un-Islamic in all ways.Little did I know that fate was bringing me in contact with Yerima and that was going to be an opportunity to see all Muslims in the same light – accommodating and not condemning of your religion. I met Yerima in the Summer of 2006. I was one of the panellists on a live broadcast of the breakfast show of Ben TV where Yerima was a guest. I had gone there dressed in jeans with my braids pulled up and complete with trainers and clanging bangles.

Ikoyi Tragedy and Casual Bigotry Against Yoruba Muslims: My Views, My Experiences – By Alhaja Adeola Agoro


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The explanation was not really made; we just knew. I knew how the opinions of certain people about you became coloured the moment they found out your name was Mojeed or Shakirat or whatever Muslim name it was. Oh no! It just meant that you must be ill-bred. It meant that your upbringing was not all together complete. In cases where they couldn’t fault you for being half-baked because you were a Muslim, they assumed that you were aggressive and stubborn. In Ibadan where I spent my first sixteen years, Muslims were referred to as ‘Imale’ (followers of the hard religion).


To this day, there is an area in Ibadan known as ‘Imalefalafia’ literarily meaning the ‘followers of the hard religion want peace’.In the Christian family where I grew up, a Christian was more likely to be trusted for anything than an imale. By a stroke of fate, I discovered that most of the people hired for house chores and such other things in my family were Muslims. It went to show that the Muslims around us then were not educated and so had to take the lowest of jobs. I could remember that the woman who did our laundry till I grew up was called Iya Seki (Sekinat). It was just assumed that Muslim families didn’t care about educating their children beyond a certain level.

I can’t remember if anything was ever done to assist them in that regards. In a funny way, it didn’t matter if you were a Baptist or Anglican, if you came for a domestic work and it was discovered that you were a Christian, it used to elicit a level of surprise that you were not educated or that you chose to do some menial jobs. It was certain that your employer would ensure that you either went to school or learnt a vocation. All you to had to do worm your way into the minds of your employers or to get favours was to say you were a Christian. (It might matter though if you were a Celestian or aladura.

Ikoyi Tragedy and Casual Bigotry Against Yoruba Muslims: My Views, My Experiences – By Alhaja Adeola Agoro



CONTINUATION......

I grew up amongst a certain class of Christians who considered themselves holy. Going to church on Sunday, coming back to eat jollof rice and chicken and watching good family films like the ‘Sounds of Music’ was a way of life. In those days, we were made to believe that the Christian kids were the ones who wore crisply ironed clothes on Sunday. They were the ones who wore ‘ready-made’ clothes with socks and nice shoes to match. Looking back now, I must admit that it was the highpoint of Christianity to wear the kinds of beautiful dresses with hats to match that I wore on Sundays.

Looking that good meant I was a Christian. Or so I was made to believe. We were the sheltered ones who were not allowed to mix with just any other children in the neighbourhood. We were only heard from the confines of our homes and hardly seen. On the other hand, those who wore clothes sewed with ankara materials, who played outside, who went to Arabic schools or who chanted Arabic language as dictated by their teachers were regarded as considered to be a little lower than us.


The explanation was not really made; we just knew. I knew how the opinions of certain people about you became coloured the moment they found out your name was Mojeed or Shakirat or whatever Muslim name it was. Oh no! It just meant that you must be ill-bred. It meant that your upbringing was not all together complete. In cases where they couldn’t fault you for being half-baked because you were a Muslim, they assumed that you were aggressive and stubborn. In Ibadan where I spent my first sixteen years, Muslims were referred to as ‘Imale’ (followers of the hard religion).

Re: Ikoyi Tragedy and Casual Bigotry Against Yoruba Muslims: My Views, My Experiences – By Alhaja Adeola Agoro

November 6, 2021

I read Kperogi’s article with a smile playing around my lips. It brought back the contents of the second chapter of the first part of my (yet to be published) book, ‘Journey to Islam: The Journey So Far’.

While I wouldn’t say Kperogi was totally right in his submissions, I’ll say that I agree with a lot of what he said.
I was born a Christian. I converted to Islam in 2009. I have spent enough time in the Islamic religion to form an opinion about it. I can say what is right or wrong about the religion and those who practise it.

I started writing the book, ‘Journey to Islam in 2017. Then I paused. Life is a journey and you can never really capture it all until the last day, so I said, ‘Let’s see if something will change and I may have to change some things in the book’.

As Jon.Bellion said in one of his songs that I love so much, “Nothing has changed, he’s the same…” From the point of writing that book till now, let me say nothing has changed. So, let me share the second chapter of the first part of that book below:

2’Yerima and Other Influences
Long before my innocent mind began to get conscious of the fire religious strife and crisis caused by displacing people and rendering many homeless, fatherless and sending several to their early graves in Nigeria, I knew about religious marginalisation. I grew up to know about religious sentiments, influences and stigmas.

People will be having sex in public like donkeys



Abdullah b. ‘Amr narrates that the Prophet ﷺ said,


"The Hour will not commence until people have sex in the streets just as donkeys’ mate.” I asked, “Will that really happen?” He ﷺ said,

“Yes, it most certainly will happen.”

Anobi Muhammad (leave be upon him) said this centuries ago.


Abdullâh b. ‘Umar narrated that the Messenger of Allah ﷺ also predicted the consequences of a hypersexualized popular culture;



“And fornication never becomes prevalent among a people, to the degree that they practice it openly, except that epidemics become rampant among them which had never before existed in their ancestors.”



“A woman will [one day] be taken and have her stomach cut open, then what is inside her womb will be taken and discarded, out of fear of having children.” - prophet Muhammad