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Islam › Re: The Punishment Of Apostasy In Islam Part Ii by Empiree: 5:39pm On Apr 22, 2018

AbdelKabir:
This has been rendered usesless as Abu bakr fought and killed apostates, so tell me again, were they the Jews that were pretending?

Go ahead. Believe what you want to believe. Who punish apostate today in any of the Muslim nations going by your manhaj?. Not even Saudi. The worst they do is punish average men and women for apostasy while they themselves are awliya of enemies if Allah. They abadoned jizya ordained by Islam to be collected from non Muslim authority within their territories and you are here fuming over what. The same non-muslim govts have mocked Islam and they did nothing about it. So they should practice what Kulafah did before you start throwing tantrum here.

Islam › Re: Who Is Sheik Inyass? by Empiree: 5:34pm On Apr 22, 2018

MrHowto:
Before Ibrahim was born the dressing code of Islam exist. So it is not because you loved him then u should copy his dressing or his children dressing. That's not our concerns.

To your sisters who claim to love the Prophet peace be upon him should emulate his teaching on mode of dressing.

Tijjani daughter is not the yardstick to measure Islamic dress. What of if tomorrow she decided to appear in an unislamic dressing? They should also dress like that because they love her father?

See how you reason?. If you can not understand that simple analogy in the picture, then, I feel pity for you. Besides I didn't mention you.

Islam › Re: Who Is Sheik Inyass? by Empiree: 4:34pm On Apr 22, 2018

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Islam › Re: The Punishment Of Apostasy In Islam Part Ii by Empiree: 3:45pm On Apr 22, 2018*

AbdelKabir:
The great classical scholar ibn Qudaama Al-maqdisiy rahimahullaah says:

"And the people of knowledge agreed upon the compulsion of killing apostates, and that was narrated from Abu bakr, umar, uthman, Ali, mu'adh, Abu Musa, ibn abbass, khaalid and other than them, and that was not rejected rather it is an ijma'"(Al-mugni volume 9 page 16)

These are people of knowledge and you come here centuries later trying to change the narratives to " beautify" Islam? May Allaah get rid of the people that are trying to modify Islam, water it down, destroy it and turn it to what Christianity is today.

this is your opinion. I have told you that kulafah you cited didn't kill apostate without some sort of treason involved. But you insist apostate can be killed for leaving religion.

Absurdity!

This is not about"destroying religion" you are the one doing that because you don't understand. Your ideology doesn't align with the Qur'an

Islam › Re: The Punishment Of Apostasy In Islam Part Ii by Empiree: 3:41pm On Apr 22, 2018

Apostasy in Context

The punishment for apostasy originated due to the dangerous phenomena of hypocrisy (nifaq) that threatened the community in Medina. Hypocrisy in this sense is not simply failing to live up to one’s stated moral standards, but rather this form of hypocrisy was the deliberate attempt by the enemies of Islam to pretend to be Muslims in order to infiltrate and harm the community.

Allah said:

وَقَالَت طَّائِفَةٌ مِّنْ أَهْلِ الْكِتَابِ آمِنُوا بِالَّذِي أُنزِلَ عَلَى الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا وَجْهَ النَّهَارِ وَاكْفُرُوا آخِرَهُ لَعَلَّهُمْ يَرْجِعُونَ

A faction of the People of the Book say to each other: Believe in that which was revealed to the believers at the beginning of the day and reject it at its end that perhaps they will abandon their religion.

Surah Ali Imran 3:72

Some of the Jews of Medina pretended to be Muslims outwardly with the intention of later publicizing their rejection of Islam in an attempt to shake the faith of newly converted Muslims. This was at a time when Medina was threatened with a war of extermination by the Quraish aristocracy.

Ibn Kathir reported:

عَنْ مُجَاهِدٍ فِي قَوْلِهِ تَعَالَى إِخْبَارًا عَنِ الْيَهُودِ بِهَذِهِ الْآيَةِ يَعْنِي يَهُودَ صَلَّتْ مَعَ النَّبِيِّ صَلَّى اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ صَلَاةَ الْفَجْرِ وَكَفَرُوا آخِرَ النَّهَارِ مَكْرًا مِنْهُمْ لِيُرُوا النَّاسَ أَنَّ قَدْ بَدَتْ لَهُمْ مِنْهُ الضَّلَالَةُ بَعْدَ أَنْ كَانُوا اتَّبِعُوهُ

Mujahid said this verse is regarding Jews who prayed the dawn prayer with the Prophet, peace and blessings be upon him, and they disbelieved at the end of the day as a plot to turn people away, such that it appeared as if they saw misguidance after entering the religion.

Source: Tafseer Ibn Kathir 3:72

Likewise, other hypocrites in Medina were spreading lies and rumors among the Muslims at a time when their unity was most needed. Such acts constituted a serious threat to the security of the community.

Allah said:

لَّئِن لَّمْ يَنتَهِ الْمُنَافِقُونَ وَالَّذِينَ فِي قُلُوبِهِم مَّرَضٌ وَالْمُرْجِفُونَ فِي الْمَدِينَةِ لَنُغْرِيَنَّكَ بِهِمْ ثُمَّ لَا يُجَاوِرُونَكَ فِيهَا إِلَّا قَلِيلًا

If the hypocrites and those in whose hearts is disease and those who spread rumors in Medina do not cease, We will surely let you overpower them. Then they will not remain your neighbors therein except for a little while.

Surah Al-Ahzab 33:60

Therefore, the punishment for apostasy was prescribed in this specific context. It was not prescribed in order to punish the act of unbelief itself, as this is for Allah alone, but rather to protect the Muslims from the conspiracies of their enemies.

Islam › Re: The Punishment Of Apostasy In Islam Part Ii by Empiree: 3:36pm On Apr 22, 2018

AbdelKabir:
I quoted books and gave the exact hadeeth numbers but it seems after you checked them online you cannot find the hadeeth, that's because I didn't copy paste like you normally rely on.....anyway I've helped you get the Arabic links for two (that of Umar and Uthman), that of Ali is in bukhari that shouldn't be difficult for you to find, although here is another report of Ali ordering the killing of a man that apostatized to Christianity.....and that of Abu bakr sorry couldn't get a link for it, and I can't waste my time typing Arabic for you cuz I know you won't accept it anyways.....but I'll suffice you with the individuals Abu bakr fought against and called them "murtads"(apostates) didn't Abu bakr fight them and kill them on the basis that they refused to fulfil a pillar of Islam which takes them out of Islam and makes them apostates? Funny thing is none of the sahabas disgreed with him and they fought alongside with him, even umar that initially disagreed did so because he still sees them as Muslims but when it became clear to him that they are infact apostates he also fought behind Abu bakr..... What do you call that buddy? Ijma' of the sahabas because none of the sahabas disagreed to kill them.

I'm sure you don't have sense, you'll show me where I have said the common mass should be killing apostates, I only brought opinion of sufyan ath-thawriy as the author claims he says apostates shouldn't be killed.

Take it or leave it, those 4 companions you cited, the incident leading to them carrying out punishment isn't much different from what I have said. Take Abu Bakr for instance, you quoted yourself saying the people did not wanna uphold tenets. This is treason especially in the case of Musaylma. But I'm taking about people who leave Islam, don't backbite or say any negative it insult the prophet or Islam. This is not the case in all 4 cases you cited. That's not ijna on apostate who mind his business after leaving religion.

Also that of Ali, there are numerous narrations about the incident before burning the people. Some said they were atheist, some said they were apostate, some said they secretly worship idols etc.

Bukhari's narratives do not give any details regarding the incident, yet in his exegesis on Bukhari - "Fath Al-Baari" - Ibn Hajar has mentioned a few other versions of the same incident. Considering all the narratives reporting this incident, the following major variations come to the forefront:

Firstly, there is quite a bit of variation regarding the people, who were subjected to this punishment. According to one version, they were atheists, according to a second version, they were apostates, according to a third version, they were a group of people, who secretly used to practice idolatry and according to a fourth version, they were a group of Rawafidh [4], who believed in the divinity of `Ali (ra).

Secondly, there is a significant difference between the reports regarding the incident itself. Although, the narratives given in Bukhari do not give any details of how the incident happened, yet Ibn Hajar has given a few narratives, which give some details of the happening. According to one version, when `Ali (ra) was informed regarding a people who considered him to be god, he called them and asked them to refrain from such blasphemy. They refused to comply. This went on for three days. Till, finally, `Ali (ra) ordered to dig a deep pit and burn a huge fire in it. The criminals were brought to the fire. `Ali (ra) told them that if they do not agree to refrain from their blasphemy, they would be thrown in the fire. They persisted in their refusal and were, subsequently, thrown in the fire.

According to a second version, `Ali (ra) was informed of a people who secretly worshipped idols in a house. `Ali (ra) went to investigate the report. An idol was recovered from the house and, subsequently, the house was burnt to ashes.

According to a third version, `Ali (ra) was informed of some apostates. He called for them. When they arrived, `Ali (ra) gave them food to eat and asked them to return to Islam. They refused. At their refusal, `Ali (ra) made them stand in a pit and killed them in it. Subsequently, he burnt them.

These are some of the various versions of the incident as reported in books of history and Hadith. One may take whichever explanation he believes to be more plausible to be accurate.

In my opinion, the second and the third versions of the incident are quite considerable. It seems that:

1. After it had become evident that the house was secretly being used for idolatry, `Ali (ra) ordered that it be burnt down. However, due to a mistake on the part of one or more of the narrators, the incident has been reported in a way that it gives the impression that the house was burnt down with its inhabitants. Whereas, it may not have been so; or

2. People were killed for their apostasy and later on their corpses were burnt to ashes. This is clearly implied in the third stated version of the incident.

Nevertheless, if someone is not willing to accept any of the above explanations and is persistent that `Ali (ra) actually burnt these criminals to death, even then the most that can be said is that `Ali's decision of burning the criminals to death was not correct, in view of the directive of the Prophet (pbuh) to the contrary. This, obviously, would amount to a criticism on `Ali's decision - not a criticism on Islam.

{CULLED}

Since there are multiple reports on the same incident you can't possibly overruled Qur'an plain ayah base on controversial historical record. This is very wrong methodology you used. You turned to Hadith and hearsays and left Quran aside. This is pathetic.

Here are verses of Quran and ahadith on religious freedom. And just because they have freedom to practice whatever religion they want doesn't mean they are right. Their punishments are reserved too Qiyama. Allah doesn't need us to intimidate apostate to promote His Deen.

Islam guarantees religious freedom for non-Muslims and prohibits forced conversion and spreading the religion by violence. This teaching is established in numerous verses of the Quran and in the Prophet’s practice.

Allah said:

لَا إِكْرَاهَ فِي الدِّينِ قَد تَّبَيَّنَ الرُّشْدُ مِنَ الْغَيِّ

There is no compulsion in religion. The truth is distinct from error. Surah Al-Baqarah 2:256

And Allah said:

وَقُلِ الْحَقُّ مِن رَّبِّكُمْ فَمَن شَاءَ فَلْيُؤْمِن وَمَن شَاءَ فَلْيَكْفُرْ

Say: The truth is from your Lord. So whoever wills let him believe, and whoever wills let him disbelieve.

Surah Al-Kahf 18:29

The Prophet would peacefully call people to the religion with beautiful preaching and sound arguments.

Anas ibn Malik reported: The Messenger of Allah, peace and blessings be upon him, said to a man:

أَسْلِمْ
Embrace Islam.

The man said, “I find that I dislike it.” The Prophet said:

وَإِنْ كُنْتَ كَارِهًا Even if you dislike it.

Source: Musnad Ahmad 11650, Grade: Sahih

In this tradition, the Prophet did not call the man to Islam using threats or intimidation, but rather by telling him that Islam is good for him even if he disliked it.

Muhammad Rashid Rida writes:

قَاعِدَةٌ كُبْرَى مِنْ قَوَاعِدِ دِينِ الْإِسْلَامِ وَرَكْنٌ عَظِيمٌ مِنْ أَرْكَانِ سِيَاسَتِهِ فَهُوَ لَا يُجِيزُ إِكْرَاهَ أَحَدٍ عَلَى الدُّخُولِ فِيهِ وَلَا يَسْمَحُ لِأَحَدٍ أَنَّ يُكْرِهَ أَحَدًا مِنْ أَهْلِهِ عَلَى الْخُرُوجِ مِنْهُ

This is a major rule among the principles of the religion of Islam and a great pillar among the pillars of administration. It is not permissible to force anyone to enter the religion and it is not allowed to expel anyone among his people from his religion.

Source: Tafseer Al-Manar 2:256

The Prophet never forced anyone into Islam and neither would he fight them because they followed a different religion. He only fought people who declared war against the Muslim community or violated people’s rights.

Ibn Al-Qayyim writes:

وَلَمْ يُكْرِهْ أَحَدًا قَطُّ عَلَى الدِّينِ وَإِنَّمَا كَانَ يُقَاتِلُ مَنْ يُحَارِبُهُ وَيُقَاتِلُهُ وَأَمَّا مَنْ سَالَمَهُ وَهَادَنَهُ فَلَمْ يُقَاتِلْهُ وَلَمْ يُكْرِهْهُ عَلَى الدُّخُولِ فِي دِينِهِ

The Prophet never forced the religion upon anyone, but rather he only fought those who waged war against him and fought him first. As for those who made peace with him or conducted a truce, then he never fought them and he never compelled them to enter his religion.

Source: Hidayat Al-Hayara 237

Islam › Re: Who Is Sheik Inyass? by Empiree: 10:47am On Apr 22, 2018

iamgenius:
I'm glad you knew you replies are irrelevant.

what is this one saying undecided

Islam › Re: The Punishment Of Apostasy In Islam Part Ii by Empiree: 5:27am On Apr 22, 2018

AbdelKabir:
Wallaahi I didn't read this rubbish........but in front of you is the ijma' of the four khalifas and I am.going to hold on to that as that's what the prophet said I should do.......

oh well, I guess I should say what I didn't want to say. "Ijma" and there isn't isnad just incomprehensible address as you usually emphasized?. If I worked like that you up-and-down my throat.

Anyways, go kill apostate. You will end up in jail if not killed in return.

Islam › Re: Shaykh Adam Abdullah Al-ilory by Empiree(op): 3:25am On Apr 22, 2018

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ugyJG64Ay6o&t=1961s

Islam › Re: The Punishment Of Apostasy In Islam Part Ii by Empiree: 2:25am On Apr 22, 2018

AbdelKabir:
I know someone was gonna say that, be that as it may, the point I'm trying to make is sufyaan.ath-thawriy's position on apostates.

there is no need to complicate issue. The hadith that says if anyone converts from islam or leave the religion should be killed should be understood in the light of ongoing battle at the time until the war was over because of non-muslims (Jews) who pretend to be muslim by infiltrating muslims in the battle. "La ikrahafi din" sits in judgement over all these hearsays.

However, a muslim who converts to another religion has freedom to do so PROVIDED he/she doesnt commit treason against the religion. We all know treason attracts capital punishment everywhere. Some may say individual has the right to leave religion as he/she wishes. Yes, but the moment you start propagating nonsense about islam or insulting the prophet(saw), causing his family and muslims. Saying everything negative about islam in the name of (i used to be muslim). This is treason. This is what tingtinz tried to denunce. But he failed to realize that, in the West especially US, you are free to renounce your citizenship even if you are born there. However, the moment you speak horribly against the country in a way that law considers 'treason', they will make sure before your renunciation process complete they sign your death sentence at the time another country chooses to accommodate you. The next thing is, family member see your obituary.

Apart from that, take Edward snowden for example, a US citizen who leaked govt secrets, he had to seek asylum in Russia bcus he is well aware he will be killed either through court of law or extra judicial killing. Islam is a complete system, therefore, it doesn't separate religion from state. This is what some people don't understand. So all these whatever is recorded that whoever apostates should be killed is too vague. Apostate who deserves capital punishment is only carried out by authority. Not street thugs.

Properties › Re: The Making Of A Low Budget 5 Bedroom Duplex (with Costs) by Empiree: 2:00am On Apr 22, 2018*

spyder880:
I went on an event in my village and had to pass by this house.....

you sound like it isnt your house. Does that mean you are not living there yet?. How about renting it out?

1 Like

Islam › Re: Islam For Muslims: Side Talk Station by Empiree: 11:29pm On Apr 21, 2018

You two can say whatever you want. I have watched General Wesley Clark 7yrs ago when he gave this speech prolly in 2001. I watched it about 8 times already. Here it is again in case you never watched it.

This is remix. You can watch his own version about 7mins on YouTube.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aQmNMLzuHv4

Don't reply me if you don't watch it before opening your mouth.

Demmzy15

vedaxcool

Islam › Re: The Punishment Of Apostasy In Islam Part Ii by Empiree: 9:14pm On Apr 21, 2018

AbdelKabir:
Here is a clearer statement of sufyaan Ath-thawriy:

"The one who kills the apostate before taking it to the sultaan, there is nothing upon him(i.e no harm in that)"(musannaf abdir razaaq 17850).

We await this Insha Allaah...

And you said this

Please where did i say apostates should be killed where ever they are found, without letting it be the responsibility of the state? Didn't you see where i agreed to new,nas's 7th point added to the 6points i raised??

Obviously the first highlight suggests jungle justice

Islam › Re: Jinn Stories by Empiree: 5:31am On Apr 21, 2018

aadoiza:
It is there for everyone to see/read. The kind of Yasin you recite acts up if you don't kill an animal to calm it down. Only misguided and ignorant fellows like you wlii refuse to see the puerility and ridiculousness in your claims. So, I don't give a bloody hoot about your silly feedback from silly lot. I'm outta here.

Yup, out sir undecided

What i don't understand is why you are throwing tantrum. Anyways, فَصَلِّ لِرَبِّكَ وَانْحَرْ surah kausar 2

Animals are signs for men

"Do they not see that We have created cattle for them, out of what Our hands have wrought, so they are their masters? And We have subjected them to them, so some of them they have to ride upon, and some of them they eat. And therein they have advantages and drinks; will they not then be grateful?" (Sura Yasin 71-73)

It is very painful to explain color to blind fellow cheesy

Now, o ya throw another tantrum undecided

Is it only during Eld this takes place?. And ofcourse, it is not everytime you read Quran (surah Yasin or other sura) you have to slaughter sheep. You better be very careful from making careless statement @bold as if I read another Yasin difference from revelation. Keep ranting man.

Islam › Re: ...... by Empiree: 4:09am On Apr 21, 2018*

Hkana:
Em.piree, can you tell me about the sheikh? I mean sheikh Bulala... What do you know about him? I don't know anything about him.

Was about to to say you should read this link https://.com/the-incredible-story-of-sheikh-muhammed-jamiu-bulala-the-nigerian-islamic-cleric-known-for-beating-women-with-horsewhips-on-the-streets/ about him from this website i read weeks ago by , a nonmuslim jorunalist. But it seems he/she removed the article probably due to criticism bcus when i read it, the writer was sentimental by exaggerating and attributed unfounded infos about him. Myself left comment to debunk writer but largely he was right concerning what we know about him.

I have learned about him since childhood before i traveled to ilorin first time in 1998. Then i heard a lot more. Unfortunately some young men and women who claimed to love him are going overboard with the praises of him. Although, there nothing necessarily wrong about that bcus they didnt call him God or son of God. But at least, they need to maintain sanity. This sheikh was well known in Offa town Kwara state back then. I heard he was visited by Sheikh Ibrahim Niase(ra). And he (bulala) visited sheikh Kamaldeen(ra) in ilorin. He was born in 1919 to the parents of mushrikun but could not learn mushrik stuff until his father took him to ilorin where he encountered alfas who taught him. He was rumoured that his brain was like magnet. That's, he is not taught twice about anything. He was ahead of his mates. He used to engage in lots of dhikr to the point of being called "mad man" exactly as the hadith said. So this is why the two guys here named dragn.et and new.nas said "sufis considered a mad man (referring to Bulala) as waliy, what a joke". This is how they put the phrase some two yrs ago here and i cited the hadith. Then they shut the hell up. It is not for everybody . Sheikh Bulala would dress like a school boy sometimes and started dancing. Sometimes found sitting on the street talking to himself. It is a long story.

Youths today do have the right to criticize him because they can not rationalize behavior like that and then called him a waliy. They cant imagine that. Fact is, you can barely see any of his counterparts condemned him till today. None of them said anything negative about him bcus they know him very well. So who do i believe, the people that actually lived in his time or these great great grandchildren who came decades later?. Ikupakuti and Laduna know him too. They spoke briefly about him in this thread in case you missed it. It was sheikh Bulala who gave these shuyukh you see in nigeria today a dhikr called "Ahamu sakaku Allahu yasu". This phrase needs to be decoded for you by ikupakuti. It was decoded by sheikh Rabiu Adebayo but you dont speak yoruba. It is Allah's Names.

But the puritans see sheikh Bulala to be heretic. That's their problem. Yet they benefited from him back then. Sheikh Bulala was very close to Sheikh Adam(ra). Sheikh Bulala was also gifted karamat and he was not known to indulge in shirk activities. Another sheikh of our time who met him one on one is sheikh Daud Alfa Nla. He narrated his encounter with him at his house. So obviously it is these shuyukh i would believe and not these aqeeda guys bcus they simply do not know him. They also believe that if a muslim does or gifted karamat it is always jinn involved according to them. While they might be right due to charlatans doesnt give them green light to label everything jinn jinn.

Sheikh Abdul Majeed Eleha who is also salafi and a critic of karamat and sufi later gave up and admitted that Allah blessed those baba back then with karamat in his lecture delivered in Houston Texas some 2 yrs ago, where he narrated a case of a waliy in Yorubaland in the time of real mushrikun who apprehended him and wouldn't let him go or even would kill him if he didn't pass the test they gave him. He was a known famous muslim and was arrested. The king back then instructed his people to buy a big white cow and lock it up in a room. They brought the wali and asked him to tell them color of the cow. The sheikh pled for a few mins to speak to Allah and later informed them that the cow is black color and very big. King smiled bcus he was so sure that he got it wrong and was ready to sacrifice the sheikh for his gods.

So he summoned his slaves to bring the cow but before then, he said to the sheikh that if the cow is white, he would be executed that night. Upon bringing out the cow, the cow already turned black and every was astonished and converted to islam. Thes is narration i never heard before until two yrs ago on youtube by this salafi sheikh Abdelmajid eleha. So Allah could bless those men with extraordinary gifts bcus of the circumstances in thier time. We dont necessarily need this type of miracles today. What we need today is intellectual karama bcus kufar of our time are fighting muslims intellectually.

1 Like

Islam › Re: Shaykh Adam Abdullah Al-ilory by Empiree(op): 3:16am On Apr 21, 2018

Albaqir, this is the lecture about killing whether the killer abides in hell forever or not

Empiree:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LkPxvHAeUjI&list=TLGGNssBZ8zhja8yMDExMjAxNw&index=4

Islam › Re: Islam For Muslims: Side Talk Station by Empiree: 3:10am On Apr 21, 2018

Demmzy15:
I've got no comment on this, you are no doubt heartless. Chaiiiii!!!!

You that have big heart, why did you pretend as if you didnt see this albaqir's post and the one before?. You and your buddy keep skipping false flag raised in those videos and focused on irrelevance?. Why are you doing this to yourself man?

AlBaqir:
'They gave dates & cookies to kids at Douma hospital…:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JPFaEG9vJT4

Cc: Em.piree, Demmzy15, vedaxcool

Islam › Re: Who Is Sheik Inyass? by Empiree: 3:00am On Apr 21, 2018

Raintaker:
Lol @ empire.e
This man is easy to spot, you've been having a back and forth with deathstroke007 a.k.a jabata's boy.

Really?. I didnt think about him for a second bcus he doesn't sound like him. You know the guy sound like slowpoke but here he sounds more "educated" LOL. I'd thought about Mrola too but i didnt want to keep guessing bcus it is irrelevant. Well, if this is mr. plumber, then, he is welcome to give his best shot here. I know he recently changed moniker to somethin and opened a thread about bida

Islam › Re: Jinn Stories by Empiree: 2:53am On Apr 21, 2018

aadoiza:
O ma se o. I'm certain that when you used to read your own kind of sura Yasin that killed people and sucked animals blood

I didnt bother to read everything else you had to say. Upon reading this line alone shows how you reason. Hence, it is waste of my precious time to dialogue with you further. You should even make tawba now for saying this. The way you worded this phrase sores my eyes. Remember people are reading this. I have already got feedback about our communication elsewhere saying how ridiculous you sound. You have a good day

Islam › Re: ...... by Empiree: 10:01pm On Apr 20, 2018

Jamo90:
Oga Empi.ree,

What is happening? Why the reposts LOL. I understand. I have even copied and saved some important information here into my notes. I don't want to hear stories if this Site crashes again. Personally, this is the best thread on Nairaland. A lot of people are still reading.

Smart move. It will be painful if the system crashes again. I am enjoying reading it. It is like i didnt read this before.

Jamo90:
# Someone asked about ikupakuti up there. I think he deactivated his email. I tried to mail him sometime ago but it didn't get delivered. Ikupakuti shouldn't just leave like this o. He has to come back. Something tells me that he checks this thread as a guest or with another moniker.

Well, eventually he may resurface. He may come up under another name. I heard se.un messed up some minikers, and they were forced to change them.

Jamo90:
I've read this thread 3 times. I still intend to read it all over again. It is very true that you don't get the true understanding about some things until you read them several times.

thumbs up

Jamo90:
I saw your recent discussion with a guy in the jinn story thread. You have to accept the fact that some people will never understand those things, simply because they are not spiritually ready for the knowledge.

Yup. The good news is, he was brought up similarly but lost track. But i cant help him. He admitted knowing some of the facts i made. That's why i see no reason to argue with him that much.

Why do you think some people refer to the real sufis as mad people? People will always criticise what they don't understand

Well, there are some ahadith that confirm the way some sufi people behave. I dont mean "goofi" who have gone astray. Those who criticize sufism simply criticize everything about them. They think they are extreme in worship. In that case, we have ahaith to back this up and even verses of Qur'an. This aspect is not for everybody. If they want to be simple by dwelling on basics only it is fine as well. However, if some sufis appear crazy in dhirk etc, like Sheikh Jamiu Bulala, in this instance, people who dont know him should simply remain silent rather than criticizing him. Sometimes Allah hides true nature of His awliya. As reported, Sheikh Jamiu Bulala(ra), whatever he did was done with faith and ilm despite his crazy looking appearance sometimes. I called this disguise. Tafsir of this i posted in this thread upon request by lanrexlan months ago. I also watched lecture of Sheikh Oniwasi Agbaye(ra) again yesterday re-emphasizing the ahadith. Wa lan tarahu ila kali mahanuna ma lam yakun fi zikiri majnuna. The sheikh once said about sheikh Jamiu Bulala that when he see a grown man or woman looking sad and he has nothing to give them, he start dancing just to make them happy. And the people were amazed like a grown man like this behaving like a child. This is pure disguise yet look craze to average man. But those young folks you see today copying him by hanging tesuba all over their body mimicking him are nothing but bunch of silly crooks

On the Jabaru, Yasin and Khutba, Recitations has started..... � You will hear from me soon, Insha Allah.

In sha Allah. Keep it up, sir.

1 Like

Islam › Re: Islam For Muslims: Side Talk Station by Empiree: 2:04pm On Apr 20, 2018

AlBaqir:
'They gave dates & cookies to kids at Douma hospital…:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JPFaEG9vJT4

Cc: Empir.ee, Demmzy15, vedaxcool

see that. Ina yajuj wa majuj mifsuduna fill ard.

Chemical attack kó, poisoned cookies ni. Nonsense

Let their stooges here continued to be fooled

Islam › Re: Who Is Sheik Inyass? by Empiree: 5:55am On Apr 20, 2018

MrHowto:
So you're posting crowed for me here. And you think this shows the sufi is right because many go for his maulud.

Hahaha

Watch the below, the population that welcome Buhari in Kano. A public holiday has to be declared because the city has been shut down.

And the crowd Celine Dion, Adam Bryan and beyonce will pull ur Sufi maulud cannot.

So it is low of you to post trash about attendence as being right.

this is the best way you could reason?. This is all you could say about my posts while you skipped other relevant discussions in there?. I am sorry for you man undecided

Islam › Re: ...... by Empiree: 12:31am On Apr 20, 2018

Raintaker:
This seems somehow related to the practice by Buddhists.
Probably Buddha was a Sufi Muslim, but I read somewhere he was a prophet of Allah.

sheikh imran Hussein wrote a book about him where he praised him. It is titled Islam and Buddhism in the Modern World Book by Imran N. Hosein. Later some Muslims questioned the book and he later said he didn't write the book exclusively only contributed to it. He refrained from saying Buddha was a nabi but he recognized corruption of his history by Buddhists

Islam › Re: ...... by Empiree: 12:24am On Apr 20, 2018

Hkana:
^^^
Egbon how far you? Why the reposts? Got something to share with me?

PS:
Ikupakut, you didn't do well leaving like that. I said I should remind you.

I decided to come back to this thread. I understand it now than last yr. Really funny and interesting thread. I have been reading for 3days now

Islam › Re: ...... by Empiree: 11:46pm On Apr 19, 2018

Demmzy15:
A man is responsible for over 450,000 dead Muslims and you say I shouldn't worry?

na him go first killed people?. Eleribu Fir'aun killed people faah cheesy

George W took more lives than Assad. Na only Assad concerned you?. You have ulterior motives shocked

Islam › Re: ...... by Empiree: 9:07pm On Apr 19, 2018

ikupakuti:
No. I knew about artificial intelligence. I‘m talking about creating a ruh from scratch & infusing it in a new or dead body to resurrect it or trapping a ruh @ the point of exit (death) in a vial or something & then create a new body (carrier) & then merge the two together, the new human will now possess the mental/spiritual capabilities of the former vessel of that recycled ruh.

There are many things we think are big deals due to our limited understanding of the word of GOD but are actually not.

When GOD says hes the one that does/did something or he has power over everything or can do anything, we dont actually understand what such implies.

They might be there already. There is recent news about American comedian, David Chapel that he was killed by CIA and cloned. This hullabaloo is going on in his family right now. Look at the pictures. Old David is slim. New David is built. That's not the problem. The problem is family said he doesn't recognize them and they are questioning authority. Authority presented built David as real David but he doesn't recognize his family. I don't know what's really going on

http://robscholtemuseum.nl/before-its-news-dave-chappelles-cousin-says-he-was-killed-and-cloned-speaks-out-for-first-time-fritz-springmeier-clones-synthetics-organic-robotoids-and-doubles/

Islam › Re: ...... by Empiree: 8:53pm On Apr 19, 2018

ikupakuti:
@empiree

Now, thats thought provoking! We Muslims tend to pretend alot.

It is either we all go down together, charged with SHIRK in respect to the verdict of that hadith or we look for the real reason behind it.

Today, we muslims dont do istikhara to know BP, Pregnancy, weather, sex & DOD, diagnose diseases, life expectancy etc we rely on a system that doesnt do istikhara also but uses calculations (same as geomancy), but we want to condemn one & pretend about the other.

The type of damage control that sheikh gave up there is what make atheists laugh at religionists. Now someone is saying gender is not part of ones destiny in other to “defend“ GOD ?

Very soon, technological advancement will get to a stage where spirits will be created & infused into a body & will function like a real human. Watch how muslims will start re-twisting verses of the QURAN to accommodate the new developement & “defend“ GOD. Many will lost their faith. Imagine defending someone you call GOD everytime those we call KUFAR show us how to use our brains!

And GOD is GLORIFIED above all blemishes! His words & attributes are perfect! We will only endup defending our faulty understanding of his words & not him.

THE BANE OF WE MUSLIMS IS PURITANICAL PRETENSIONS

If a muslim today should develope a computation system from the letters of the verses of the QURAN, for prediction & divination, you will see how ULAMA all over the world will be issuing FATWAs condemning the practice, asking for daleel from hadith or from practices of the salafs in utilizing the QURAN for such! They will continue running him down, while the KUFAR whites will court him, learn from him, enhance it & use it to enslave the muslims the more & those muslims will start patronizing such system from the KUFARS without questioning its source.

WE ARE A VERY BIG LAUGH!

Islam › Re: ...... by Empiree: 8:45pm On Apr 19, 2018

LadunaI:
^^^
I believe matter of faith is very subtle, and great care has to be taking at such. The prophet (saw) prohibiting sahaba from visiting graves initially has to do with protection of their FAITH so to say as you rightfully pointed out earlier. And any form of similarities drawn from Prophets telling people about fortune does not necessarily have INHERENT DANGER that would arise if sought from other means.

Seeking means to know the future of man destiny(fortune Telling) by any other means EXCEPT through Prophets, and RUYA sadiqa (through prayer or istikhara) would always present the DANGER of falling to shirk, hence ISLAM advent enshew any other methods employ in accessing such knowledge even there were some elements of their efficacies or precedents.

This bring us to the LOFTY STATION of TAWAQUL in which man see nothing other than ALLAH as the sole AGENCY for any means, hence the need to approach HIM only through prayers. And this exactly what the
Holy Prophet (saw) demonstrated during his life time. So, in my opinion this has to do essentially about training us for higher IDEALS,(by negating or "forbidden" us other means e.g geomancy etc in this age), so that we can become such a thorough BELIEVER that will bring the REAL FORTUNE of entering JANAT without any form QUESTIONING or ACCOUNTABILITY on the day of judgement. Reserved for MUTAWAKAL.

Like one sahaba said that holy Prophet (saw) used to teched them ISTIKHARA or to perform istikhara in ALL matters as he(saw) used to tech them chapters of holy Qur'an. So, by very nature we are hasty and curious to know what future holds for everyone of us, and the sure UNADULTERATED MEANS to ACCESS such now should be through prayers NOT by any other means. If perhaps time has ripe for such same would have been approved by holy Prophet (saw) like the way he did for visiting graves. Allahu Alam.

Thanks.

Islam › Re: ...... by Empiree: 8:34pm On Apr 19, 2018

ikupakuti:
The hadith reads :

¤Whoever approaches a fortuneteller & believes what he says, he has disbelieved in what has been revealed to Muhammad (saw)¤

Now, the Qs :

1-: What is fortunetelling in this context ? What does it entails ?

2-: Who is a fortuneteller ?

3-: What is it that a fortuneteller would say that when one believes it, will annul ones faith ?

4-: In Q5:90 GOD forbade MU‘MINS from drawing/casting lots but in Q3:44 same GOD recounted how NABI ZAKARIYYA (as) drew lottery with his fellow sages on whos gonna train MARY (as), is that a contradiction ? Again in Q37:141 NABI YUNUS (as) participated in lottery which didnt favour him, so whats happening ?

5-: The NABI (saw) in many hadiths told fortunes, NABI YUSUF, YA‘QUB (as) told fortunes, inshort every NABI is a fortuneteller but ironically disbelieving in their fortunetelling is KUFR so whats happening ?

These are the question that those WAHABI MUFASSIRUNA used to avoid, they will deny something & wont tender any tangible or credible refutal.

If anyone tells you geomancy/fortunetelling is haram, let him answer this Qs, then we‘ll know what class he belongs to among those 3.

Coz if you dont put them on the hot seat their hypocrisy wont come out

Islam › Re: ...... by Empiree: 8:09pm On Apr 19, 2018

ikupakuti:
^^^

The ‘soothsayers‘ refered to by the NABI (saw) @ that time, are idolaters, whose line of divination is inspired by the SHAYATEEN. Believing in them is believing in the SHAYATEEN & that automatically translates to disbelive in GOD.

The NABI(saw) wasnt codemning divination in that hadith but those its gotten from (since ISTIKHARA is also a form of divination).

#Divination exists in various forms. Using computerized programmes & highly sophisticated devices to forecast weather conditions, X-raying, Scanning, ailment diagnosis, exploration geophysics, radiocaborn dating are all some sort of divinations, its only the method that differ.

#They all involve revealing some hidden infos about a matter, whether past, present or futuristic.

#All what these newage methods are employed for would have been refered to the soothsayers in the days of old or through ISTIKHARA. The only downside of the method of the soothsayers is that, they rely on the DEVILS who are sworn enemies of GOD & thus cannot be trusted.

#Now should one go to a soothsayer for a weather forecast & believe him, the condition stated in that hadith will fall on him.

#Mind you, the SHAYATEEN can also or may also utilize these newage methods for divination but still, that wont change the verdict in that hadith. Since its not really about divination or the method of divination but the diviner.

INTERPRETATION OF DREAMS IS ALSO A FORM OF DIVINATION. Meaning a soothsayer will still rely on the devils for its interpretation & the verdict of that hadith will also apply.

Islam › Re: ...... by Empiree: 8:09pm On Apr 19, 2018

Empiree:
Interesting. When Sheikh Daud Alfa Nla was asked by his student about similar issue (iyepe tite) he said, 'we can say it is partly haram and halal' conforming with underlined.

Now how do we reconcile this with hadith which says visiting soothsayer deprives of one's salat (from being accepted) for 40 days?. Soothsayer by general meaning according to the hadith doesn't characterize

Islam › Re: ...... by Empiree: 8:09pm On Apr 19, 2018

ikupakuti:
Ofcourse, shes right on it being a mathematical (binary) system. But her submission that ifa (geomancy) originated from the yoruba was wrong. It has always been primordial.

Geomancy is rooted in astrology. The original concept of astrology is divine (scriptural). The planets & stars are only a replica of the real deal. You dont need to trail the stars/planet to study it like many people think.

Every NABI is taught the original concept of mystical astrology coz its one of the 46 fractals of prophetism.

But its a knowledge reserved for the elites. Those who inherit the scriptures & failed to measure up were forced to make do with the exoteric aspect of it, and as its is with every divinely revealed knowledge (all the devil needs to get to destroy anything good, is time), it deteriorated with time, with every community individualizing their own line of it according to custom & tradition & thats how fetishism & idolatry crept into it. Reason while the NABI (saw) didnt condemn it entirely even though the one practiced by the arabs at that time is idolatrous.

But one can always see the identical concept in all the present versions from all over the world.

M. A as a scientific & mathematical system is so powerful that the esoterics of religion is almost useless without it.

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