₦airaland Forum

Crescentholm:
Surah Al-Mursalat, Verse 25& 26
أَلَمْ نَجْعَلِ الْأَرْضَ كِفَاتًا
أَحْيَاءً وَأَمْوَاتًا
Have We not made the earth (as a place) to draw together for the living and the dead,

Surah Aal-e-Imran, Verse 55:
إِذْ قَالَ اللَّهُ يَا عِيسَىٰ إِنِّي مُتَوَفِّيكَ وَرَافِعُكَ إِلَيَّ وَمُطَهِّرُكَ مِنَ الَّذِينَ كَفَرُوا وَجَاعِلُ الَّذِينَ اتَّبَعُوكَ فَوْقَ الَّذِينَ كَفَرُوا إِلَىٰ يَوْمِ الْقِيَامَةِ ثُمَّ إِلَيَّ مَرْجِعُكُمْ فَأَحْكُمُ بَيْنَكُمْ فِيمَا كُنتُمْ فِيهِ تَخْتَلِفُونَ

Lo! God said: "O Jesus! Verily, I shall cause thee to die, and shall exalt thee unto Me, and cleanse thee of [the presence of] those who are bent on denying the truth; and I shall place those who follow thee [far] above those who are bent on denying the truth, unto the Day of Resurrection. Then, unto Me will be the return..”

**In the above, Allah promised to KILL HIM FIRST BEFORE EXALTING HIM (i.e raising the soul as expected of every dead person). He didn’t say I’ll raise you before killing!!!

Again, you did not address the issue of his "soulless" body. Quran says the people were confused and followed nothing but conjecture. If his body was down there and the soul alone was taken up, his soulless body would be evidence and there would have been no conjecture with them. Again, where was his body?. Do you have islamic reference of historical account of his lifeless body since you claimed only his soul was taken up?.

Crescentholm:
Surah An-Nisa, Verse 158:
بَل رَّفَعَهُ اللَّهُ إِلَيْهِ وَكَانَ اللَّهُ عَزِيزًا حَكِيمًا
nay, God exalted him unto Himself - and God is indeed almighty, wise.

RAFA'A (EXALT or ASCENSION?)

According to the English lexicon, “Exalt” is
From Old French exalter, from Latin exaltare
1- (transitive) TO HONOR; TO HOLD IN HIGH ESTEEM.
They exalted their queen.
2- TO RAISE IN RANK, STATUS ., to elevate.
The man was exalted from a humble carpenter to a minister.

We have always understood EXALT to mean "raise his rank"

Crescentholm:
ASCENSION.

Where is Allah?

For scholars who believe in his a.s bodily ascent because the question then arises as to where was God when He raised Jesus(as) to Himself? Was He not present where Jesus(as) was? Does God not occupy the entire universe? Was God not above Jesus(as), below Jesus(as), to the right of him and to the left of him? It is a fact that nobody can move to God as God is not a body. Bodies can only move in the direction of bodies. This is an inviolable law.

You have no problem interpreting Dajjal to mean metaphoric and symbolic, why do you have problem with this?. Why did you choose literal interpretation of this?.

Now read this, when nabi Muhammad(saw) went through isra and miraj, he was close to Allah. Would you say Allah is body in this context as well?. Unless you don't believe in isral and miraj, that will be a whole different.

AlBaqir:
# Dont let us drag ourselves back again. We have clearly established lots of Sunni sahih ahadith reaching Ibn Abbas, Ibn Mas'ud, Ubai Ibn Kaab, best of Sunni Qur'anic reciter and Mufassir among the sahabah. And its so serious that these sahabah's mushaf reads the ayah with, "for a specific period" which is not in the present Qur'an. There's no running away from the fact that Q.4:24 established Mut'ah. Here's another to initial evidences I have posted before:


Source: Abu Ja’far Muḥammad b. Ya’qub b. Ishaq al-Kulayni al-Razi, al-Furu’ min al-Kafi (Tehran: Dar al-Kutub al-Islamiyyah) [annotator: ‘Alī Akbar al-Ghiffari], vol. 5, p. 449, # 4

"Rule Of Thumb" applies here. The same rule that applies to issue of rajam blemishing Qur'an of a "missing verse". Therefore, no matter who said what, it is irrelevant bcus only Allah and His messenger have the right to say such, that, a verse of mut'a is not in present Qur'an. That's forgery. It is the same claim as ghost "verse of rajm". It doesn't matter if it in Sunni books. The claim is invalid without authority of the messanger(saw).



But if they said "we understood ayah 24 of surah nisa was revealed about mut'ah", this would have been more acceptable. Therefore, i dismiss so called "ayah of mut'ah" in the Qur'an. However, until Sunnis remove the "evidences" you cited, they gonna have hard time proving mut'ah wrong. So i am free from both sides of this topic.

^
I have said there are symbolical characteristics of Dajjal. You can't refute that due to obvious and physical evidences. But there are also physical characteristics (human features) as well which you can not refute either until his khuruj. So all his symbolic characters will manifest before our eyes except for those who take them literally.


However you need to clarify you stance whether you believe in Dajjal itself (not as human, not by symbolic features either). Just Dajjal a agent of fitna?. If you believe that, it is no longer matter whether is characteristics are literal or symbolic.

Crescentholm:
The prophet pbuh was giving an analogy to his companions on DAJJAL just like a human, as it's a practice, even in the Quran also where prophecies are related using animals or inanimate objects as analogy.
An example, is where Allah severally likens believers to a person with sight while a disbeliever to a blind. DOES THAT MEAN ALL DISBELIEVERS ARE BLIND?
or where Allah likens a sincere good deeds to a farmer growing on a fertile land while an hypocrite deeds is just like a farmer planting on a rocky surface which washes off when wind blows or during the rain. IS THE DEEDS OF A BELIEVER A FARM OR IT PRODUCE?
In such scenario, Muhammad pbuh likened DAJJAL to a human with a blind right eye, while his left is open (meaning, things/ideology/practices that ignores the good and up take the evil practices). The word DAJJAL is gotten from the Arabic word "DAJALA", Meaning: "DECEPTION". So any practice or ideology that is against the good practices (as enjoined in the Quran and Sunnah) no doubt is deception and it metaphorically closes it's eye at the good and open it toward evil.

I am not argueing this. I know about Dajjal symbolism. That's not my point. There are SPECIFIC descriptions suggesting human attributes

Crescentholm:
As for DAJJAL, It's an idea, never a being.

Now, this look like "idea" to you?.



Sahih Muslim > The Book Pertaining to the Turmoil and Portents of the Last Hour :-


In the lengthy hadeeth narrated by al-Nawwaas ibn Sam’aan (may Allaah be pleased with him) it says: the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) mentioned the Dajjaal one morning. Sometimes he described him as insignificant and sometimes he described him as so significant that we thought that he was in the cluster of date-palm trees…” One of the features of the Dajjaal that he described was: “He will be a young man with very curly hair, with his eye floating. It is as if he looks like ‘Abd al-‘Uzza ibn Qatan.”


(Muslim English reference : Book 41, Hadith 7015;Muslim Arabic reference : Book 55, Hadith 7559)


Highlighted is not tawil. They are literal unlike other features.

AlBaqir:
# Jesus returning back?! As what? A prophet? For what purpose exactly?Nabi Muhammad is the last Prophet and Messenger sent to mankind. Islam and its teachings which is to remain till end of days is enough to protect mankind from whatever evil that will come at akhir zaman (last days)

Since mission of Dajjal is to impersonate him(as), it was necessary for his return.

AlBaqir:
# @underlined, first I do not believe in the so-called Dajjal and its characteristics. However, if the alleged beast do come, is it the responsibility of Nabi Isa to save mankind from it? Now that seems to me the theory of those who believe in the alleged purpose of Nabi Isa on his "second coming". These people placed so much emphasis on Nabi Isa's alleged second coming that they totally forgot about Imam al-Mahdi. Hadith on the later is widely reported (Mutawattir) and more reasonable and more aligned with Islamic beliefs than the former.

Dajjal, both nabi Isa and Mahdi(as) are mutawatir. Majority muslims believe both. They only give credence more to Isa(as). And their functions are different but identical. Imam Mahdi is political leader while nabi Isa(as) is spiritual leader. This is proper way to put it.


This hadith has been narrated on the authority of Abu Hurairah that I heard the Prophet said:: 'What will be your condition when the son of Mary will come down to you and your Imam will be from amongst you'


I am quite aware that appearance of Imam Mahdi(as) is given priority over nabi Isa(as). That's irrelevant. The reason we gave priority to nabi Isa is bcus he acount is detailed in the Qur'an. So we turned to Quran first. Besides, Imam Mahdi appearance comes first.

AlBaqir:
# Interestingly, some of those ahadith and athar clearly introduced Imam al-Mahdi as "sahibu zaman - master of the age" that even Nabi Isa will have to take commands from him. So, why all the fuss about Nabi Isa and not al-Mahdi?

It is about Quran versus hadith. Quran sits in judgment.

Crescentholm:
AS MUSLIMS, WE'RE TO BELIEVE IN ALL HEAVENLY BOOKS.

THE BIBLE CLEARLY STATES that he a.s was put on the cross in the 6th hour and was put down in the 9th because of the Sabath day (which was the following day. No one must hang till the Sabath).

It further stated that due to inspiration of God to Pontias Pilate's wife of Jesus pbuh innocence, Pilate well planned the crucifiction to save Jesus pbuh.

At the 9th hour, when he a.s was brought down with the other thieves, HIS A.S SIDE WAS PIERCED WITH A SPEAR AND "BLOOD AND WATER GUSHED FORTH" (which according to science / cardiologist shows he a.s was still alive, because the heart stops pumping and circulating blood as soon as the person dies).

To hasten death during crucifiction, the limbs are usually broken, but the limb of the 2 other person crucified with him a.s was broken except his. Afterwards, he a.s was handed to someone to take to a secret tomb, WHERE OINTMENT AND OTHER THINGS THAT WILL HELP HIM a.s HEAL FAST WAS APPLIED TO HIS WOUND.

The quran says "THEY KILL HIM NOT NOR CRUCIFY HIM..."

To Kill someone is usually applied to ONLY HUMAN TO HUMAN RELATION. When the death of someone comes about either deliberately or not, by another person. If it's purely natural, it's better said that Allah took his soul.

Allah already said they intend to kill him (because it's the tradition of the wicked to seek to persecute and kill their prophets), BUT ALLAH ALREADY PROMISED ISA a.s that He WILL BRING ABOUT HIS DEATH HIMSELF ("...inni mutawafeeka warafiuka illaiya..."


So the plot of killing Isa a.s didn't work out because HE A.S WAS BROUGHT DOWN ALIVE.
BACK TO CRUCIFIXION.

According to the dictionary, it MEANS TO KILL SOMEONE ON THE CROSS.
So if the person was nailed BUT DIDN'T DIE, CRUCIFIXION IS NOT ACHIEVED.

An example is a person who was hit by a car. If he dies immediately, IT IS SAID HE DIED OF ACCIDENT. BUT if he survived and later die years later peacefully, IT CAN NEVER BE SAID HE DIED OF ACCIDENT.


*** IF ISA A.S DIDN'T DIE ON THE CROSS (i.e CRUCIFIXION) AND WASN'T KILLED BY THE JEWS, CAN'T HE DIE PEACEFUL AS ALLAH ALREADY PROMISED HIM? (Because Allah never in the Quran promised to take him a.s. bodily to heaven.

interesting as you are expressing your view. I have heard this before. But your view is not clear. If i understood you right, you are saying that he survived crucifixion and was brought down?. Fine.


The problem is with that theory is, if indeed he was nailed but was brought down and he later died, if the people present at the event are confused about whereabout of his soul, are they also confused about his wounded body?. Where is the body? . If he was buried, archeologists could have unearthed him by now.


Many attempts were made but only to later tell us it was not his remains. So far your position is inclear. Far as i am concerned, when Quran says balrafaAllahu ilai this is understood to mean he was airlifted by Allah (body and soul). That's where their conjectures come in. They shouldn't be confused about his whereabout after been brought down. That's where I told you Quran is silent on exactly how it happened but you insist Quran isn't silent. If Quran isn't silent, why then you had to bring Biblical account info this? .


Silence of Quran only meant for Muslims to exercise our intellect. So again, flaw in your theory is that his body's whereabout is questionable. If you can not specify what happened to his body, then my position that he was air lifted (body and soul) is the correct understanding.

Crescentholm:
It is absurd to think that one who is neither killed, nor put to death by putting on the Cross has necessarily ascended bodily to heaven.

• Besides, the Arabic words "MAA SALABOOHO" do not deny the fact of Hadhrat Jesus'AS being nailed to the but deny his having died on it as is clear from Arabic lexicon.
Furthermore, the ENGLISH DICTIONARY DEFINE CRUCIFIXION as to EXECUTE (OR KILL) A PERSON by NAILING HIM ON A CROSS.

For example, SALABAL LISSA means, HE CRUCIFIED THE THIEF, i.e., HE PUT HIM TO DEATH IN A CERTAIN WELL-KNOWN MANNER (Lane & Aqrab). In crucifixion one was nailed to a framework made in the form of a cross and, being kept without food and drink, slowly died of pain, hunger, fatigue, and exposure. If the person nailed didn’t die on the cross, he can never be referred to as crucified.

• The words Wa Laakin Shubbiha Lahum in verse 4:158 as claimed that the likeness of Hadhrat Jesus a.s was cast upon another person--Judas or somebody else who was then crucified in place of Hazrat Jesus a.s.
?

I dont get the point you are trying to raise in your write here. Clarify yourself please. @bold, i no longer believe in the theory of substitution.

Crescentholm:
Since you claimed I seem to be getting it wrong, can you sincerely state your view on the above.

Are the quotations correct or wrong?

Is the message also ambiguous?

No, you do quote correct references but i am afraid that you misplaced tafsir with wrong ayat of Qur'an.



Now let me make few things clear. I understand that muslims from the time of immemorial have ikhtilaf on the issue of the "death" and "return" of nabi Isa (alayhi salam). However, death they attributed to him(as) was that it was Allah who took his soul. This is line of disagreement bcus Quran is silent on how it actually happened. Both pros and cons only come up with theories and evidences at their disposal. Therefore, a muslim should not make takfir of another muslim who believe Isa(as) died i:e Allah took his soul. It is not kufr to say this. But if a muslim believes or makes it part of his aqeeda that nabi Isa's enemies actually crucified and killed him, this is enough to make takfir of kufr bcus the ayah iterate with CERTAINTY that they did not kill him nor crucify him. Even Quraniyoon don't believe he(as) was crucified.



So you need to make your stand clear on this first. It will be timeless efforts that will get us nowhere if we are to continue arguing whether Allah took his soul or not. Scholars differ on it. But the reason later's opinion is stronger is bcus of overwhelming ahadith which is quite difficult to dismiss. Isn't strange that you avoided those ahadith or you simply don't believe them?.. Also, even without hadith, the ayah of Quran which you avoided hints us of nabi Isa's return. The ayah is located in sura zukhruf 61. Let's hear your view of the ayah.



What's even strange to me is that, many of those who don't believe in the eventual return of nabi Isa(as), believe in appearance of Dajjal. This makes me wonder where exactly is their stance?. We all know Dajjal is 100% evil. When he finally arrives in human form, he would terrorize believers to the point of forcing people to worship him. But his traits precedes his خارجي [khuruj]. My question to those who reject the return of Jesus is, are we gonna be in that damnation and age of fitan forever without divine intervention?.. If Dajjal is to come the implication is their will definitely be divine intervention which is Nabi Isa Ibn Mary'am (alaih salaam).


So the belief that he did not die and will return in the end time is stronger with clear backings from ahadith. That's what I subscribed to.

Let's just say sino's position, which majority sunni hold up, including myself, is to be on the "safe side" which i quite agree with. But i am not gonna agree with parallel drawn btw mut'ah, wine and pork. Also, one notices that it is easy to condemn mut'ah from afar as many of us sunni do without scrutiny not knowing that mut'ah is much more deeper than that. It is better to go through it academically as we have done so far than simply rubbishing it. That makes no sense


The actual act of zina is much prevalent than mut'ah itself. It seems I and lanrexlan are actually on the same page here. He sees what i see. I have just one step toward agreeing with Shi'a on mut'ah ONLY IF they can establish undiluted proof(s) that Nisa ayah 24 was revealed about mut'ah and there should be isnad reaching some sahaba. This thread is encyclopedia on its own.

Crescentholm:
The greatest honour conferred on him pbuh is the SEAL OF PROPHETHOOD as its explained in one of the Hadith that he pbuh was reported to have said he's pbuh is just like a brick missing in between a wall, which if not fixed, the wall crumbles. If fixed, it grants /and confers rigidity, beauty, strength and perfection to the wall (pbuh).

It's no doubt because of this perfect attribute that Allah and His angels invoke blessings on his blessed nature and also instructed that "sollu allaihi wasalim teslima"

That indeed is a great honour in this life and the next Insha'Allah.

So what's the point of all your arguments if indeed you acknowledged here that he, nabi Muhammad(saw), was the SEAL OF PROPHETHOOD?.

That's the point of arguments before the issue of nabi isa (as) back and forth since.


Definition of Seal. Seal is verb in that sentence

Crescentholm:
Starting from the statement that Allah is not bound by His laws, Remember, He is "AL-HAQ", (the truthful) and the controller. The fact that He's stable, not changing and as well keep changing in His practice of stability when He's unable to change the scenario of His being is a blasphemy against His supremacy.

WHY BREAK THE RULE AT FIRST?
Let's give a scenario of Muhammad pbuh, who lost his supportive wife (Khadija r.a) and Uncle at a very crucial time. He and his followers werr faced with almost overwhelming persecution for 13years, pelted with stones, boycotted to extent that they had to take shelter and run away from their property and home for fear of being killed and in response to the instructions of their Lord. Is that not inline with Q2: 214:
...do you think that you shall enter the Garden (of bliss) without such (trials) as came to those who passed away before you? THEY ENCOUNTERED SUFFERING AND ADVERSITY, and were so SHAKEN IN SPIRIT that even the Messenger and those of faith who were with him CRIED: "WHEN (WILL COME) THE HELP OF ALLAH?" Ah! Verily, the help of Allah is (always) near!


Prophet Suleiman a.s faced his trial when his look was interchanged. Ayuba a.s faced Ilness, Musa a.s faced several trials before he was successful, Ibrahim a.s also faced his just like other prophet of Allah and they all completed their missions. Why was the reverse the case for Isa a.s?

Even if anyone deserves a special treatment, it would have been the master of Man, Muhammad Mustapha wa Mujtaba. How unfortunate you belittle his standard.

Allah (astagfurullah) was afraid Isa a.s will be killed, so he just took him off to heaven to save the day while other prophets are left to their own fate is nothing but a pre-planned fiction and Injustice (whereas, Allah is the just).

I understand what you are trying to prove but unfortunately you don't seem to get it. Don't get me wrong, you did raise good point. You are not the first to reject the return of nabi Isa(as), and this is not just Ahmadiyah alone. There are among the sunnis who reject it as well like Allama Dr. Muhammad Iqbal(ra), and we dont call them kafir bcus of this. We simply say they either misguided on the subject or used the wrong methodology.

Now, unless you want to condemn ALL ahadith on this subject, then, i can understand your standpoint. The case of nabi Isa is slightly different bcus he simply did not complete his mission before he was cut off. Didn't Allah inform him of ascension before the actual event took place?. He did. That mission he didnt finish, he will return to accomplish it. In sūrat l-zukhruf 61, Allah informs us briefly of his handsome return. The ayah does not need interpretation. It is muhkam (decisive) and only need tafsir.



As for "special treatment", you mean the special 'treatment' you didnt even give him(saw) since you have been posting?. I barely see you call nabi or prophet muhammad not even sallallahu alai wa sallam Anyways, Allah already honored nabi muhammad(saw) in several places, like no where did Allah call him(saw) by name without some sort of prefix or suffix. Like Muhammad followed by rasulullah, mokana muhammad aba rijala, and the list goes on. But he never really gave this much respect for other prophets. He called them by name straight up

Reference


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=404TmGSzFhs&t=1s

Besides, the greatest honor conferred on him(saw) is in barzakh and on Qiyama which nabi Isa does not have

Crescentholm:
Seems you mentioned "..in another samawat (heaven)..." ( correct me if it's a misinterpretation please).

But remember that Of the creation of Allah s.w.t, human is bond to remain in the universe as any other location of existence for human is debunked by Allah Himself in the verse below. Allah can never tell a lie or contradict Himself. I’ll appreciate you can quote any contrary location for human from the Quran.

i wanted to give you detail references from Quran what it means by "samawat", but i rather not inundate you with epistle. It is your opinion to translate samawat to "heaven". I won't argue on gramma. So let's keep it simple. Will give you example of Dajjal

Dajjal according to various ahadith is alive, nabi (saw) described his human attributes which suggests his is human being. But right now, we can't see him but he lives. Why we can't see him if he is human?. The reason is bcus he is in another samawat but we will be able to see him with our material eyes ONLY when he is in dimension of time and space.


Example #2, Jinkind and Angels are in another samawat is the reason we can't see them. When you are in the masjid praying with other muslims, or you are with your family eating at the dinner table, or in lecture room with other students, Jinn and Angels are there with you right?. But you can not see them. Why bcus they are in different samawat (another dimension of space and time).



Example #3, a devout muslim, usually musin, waliy or whatever you call them, who is drunk in dhikr like salat for instance, your attention is no longer in the environment. You are gone to different samawat. example is S. Ali and S.Umar(ra). This can be proven from hadith where Jibril(as) appeared to nabi and his companions.


Nabi Muhammad(saw) was taken up in miraj, how did he survive if not by Allah's permission?.


In the same way, nabi Isa(as) is in another samawat i:e, in another dimension of space and time. He is longer in our material universe.

Crescentholm:
*** The second clarification I need from you brother is from the ayah that Allah says to Adam a.s that:
"... fiha ta yahunaha, fiha tamutunna, wamin ha tuhrajun"
Meaning:
"..on the Earth you emerge (created), on it shall you die, and on it shall you be risen (for judgement).”

This ayah is only meant to establish proof that humans are created for earth. Is has little or nothing to do with this. And Isa and every one of us will emerge from us earth later bcus Isa (as) himself will be buried according to authentic hadith unless you can prove to us where is qabr is

Crescentholm:
Q3. Did Allah contradict Himself by breaking his law and take Isa a.s to heaven?

I guess explanation above clears the air. And yes, Allah is not bound by his Laws. He(azal wajal) is fahalmoyurid

Crescentholm:
4. Was there any need for breaking the law at the first place, after all prophet are meant to face hardship as Allah promised below:
Surah Al-Baqara, Verse 214:
أَمْ حَسِبْتُمْ أَن تَدْخُلُوا الْجَنَّةَ وَلَمَّا يَأْتِكُم مَّثَلُ الَّذِينَ خَلَوْا مِن قَبْلِكُم مَّسَّتْهُمُ الْبَأْسَاءُ وَالضَّرَّاءُ وَزُلْزِلُوا حَتَّىٰ يَقُولَ الرَّسُولُ وَالَّذِينَ آمَنُوا مَعَهُ مَتَىٰ نَصْرُ اللَّهِ أَلَا إِنَّ نَصْرَ اللَّهِ قَرِيبٌ

Or do you think that you shall enter the Garden (of bliss) without such (trials) as came to those who passed away before you? they encountered suffering and adversity, and were so shaken in spirit that even the Messenger and those of faith who were with him cried: "When (will come) the help of Allah?" Ah! Verily, the help of Allah is (always) near!

Why is Isa a.s an exception?

When Allah made Ashab kahf slept for 300years, without their body decomposed, that's breaking the law of nature. When Allah took nabi Muhammad(saw) with his body and soul through journey of isra and miraj, did he contradict Himself because, according to "law of nature", human cannot survive in that samawat the prophet went


The reason i don't want to inundate you with epistle is, it would require me to talk exclusively about number of years bcus Quran says 1 day in the sight of Allah can be 1000yrs, 50,000 respectively, just to be give an example. So only Allah can do all these. He is not bound by His Laws.

Crescentholm:
Where is he?

The possible and reasonable answer is what i gave earlier and that is, he is not in our dimension of space and time. He is in another samawat.

How do you know you are in another samawat?

Crescentholm:
Doing what?

the reasonable answer is, worshipping Allah. That's the reasonable answer far as i am concerned

Crescentholm:
Of course it's a simple topic that need clarification so, to avoid contradiction or unnecessary confusion, I will appreciate your answers to the simple questions pushed to you please brother.

1. Is Isa a.s in a state of sleep?

2. If yes, where is he having the sleep?

Smh akhi, the ayah i gave was simply analogy....to tell you that when Allah mentioned "maut" is not always denotes complete total death bcus there is another meaning for "maut" which i cited earlier. Only Allah knows the current state of nabi Isa (as). What we know is, he is not dead yet. He will taste maut (when soul will not return to his body) AFTER his mission is accomplished at his second return.


Right now, nabi Isa(as) is not in our dimension of space and time. He is in another samawat, which means you can not say he is sleeping. That's very wrong sir.

Crescentholm:
If according to your last paragraph, presence of a divine book signifies prophethood, then which was the law of Nuh, Suleiman, Ibrahim and Ismael?

They shouldn't be names a prophet since no book/law to show for it.

Secondly, on the death of Jesus on whom be peace,
before I talk about "Rafa'a", please permit me to mention few law from the Quran.

*Allah says "Qulu nafsi zaiqatul maut"
Meaning:
Each soul that is giving birth to must also die.

However, death (maut) was in used in 2 different scenario in the Quran as you mentioned, vis-a-vis:
*Sleep and *Death.

Unfortunately, the verse you quoted clearly states that "Allah takes a soul at it's appointed time (death), but for those whose time isn't exhausted, he takes it at sleep and return it when it's time to rise (that means sleep is likened to A TEMPORARY DEATH).

**Should we say Isa is in a state of sleep since more than 2000 years ago? (to me it doesn't appeal to common sense).

*** Where is he having this sleep please?

Why did you choose to complicate yourself over a very simple topic?

Rilwayne001:
One Hausa man just called me, I told him it's wrong number, he called me back asking me if I know the correct number. Just cant stop laughing

Friendng, I hope that wasn't you

Lol, tell him to dial toll free number of his wireless carrier nau.....they should be of help

The Smartest People On The Planet

Crescentholm:
So, since Jesus a.s is to come back to perform same mission as a prophet of Allah (because He's acting under Allah's instructions), the word "KHATAMAN NABIYYIN" is best to be translated as "SEAL / BEST /MOST PERFECT of prophets" not last, because after a last, there can never be another last in any form whatsoever.

Your problem is, you are taking "KHATAMAN NABIYYIN" to mean a lone ayah whereas, when you out together other ayat and ahadith, it is a s clear as daylight that nabi Muhammad (saw) was the last prophet..


Read this


Prophet MUhammad(saw) said:


# "You (Hazrat Ali) are related to me as Aaron was related to Moses (pbuh). But no Apostle will come after me." (Bukhari, Muslim Musnad recorded a similar hadith ending in 'Behold there is no prophethood after me.')



# We are the last (ummah) but will precede all on the Day of Resurrection except that the Book was given to them before us. (Bukhari, Muslim)



# The tribe of Israel was guided by prophets. When a prophet passed away, another prophet succeeded him. But no prophet will come after me; only caliphs will succeed me. (Bukhari)



# I am the last in line of the prophets of God and my Masjid is the last Masjid. (Muslim)



# The chain of Messengers and Prophets has come to an end. There shall be no Messenger nor Prophet after me. (Tirmidhi, Musnad Ahmad, Anas bin Malik)




# There will arise thirty impostors in my Ummah and each one of them will pronounce to the world that he is a prophet, but I am the last in the line of the Prophets of God and no Prophet will come after me. (Abu Dawood, Tirmizi)




See the last one ^ that's where some who claimed to be prophets fall in to like Elijah Muhammad of USA and Mr. Gulam




# Allah will send no Apostle after me, but only Mubashshirat (Good vision or pious vision).n(Musnad Ahmad, Abu Tufail, Nasa'i, Abu Dawud)


If these don't wake you up i don't know what will. The return of Isa(as) is not to bring about "new Ummah" not to confirm nabi Muhammad(saw) either (he already did in his Injil) but unveil the hijab from Yahud(who rejected him) and nasar (who called him God and son of God). And finally, to crush impostor, Dajjal

WHO AGREES WITH HER?




*THIS WAS ESTABLISHED BY MRS MARTHA DE PURENEZ, WHO DIED AT THE AGE OF 104, AND SHE SPENT 82 YEARS IN MARRIAGE, AND SHE SAID THIS.*



"I know that young ladies will never agree with me, but whoever will implement this shall be the happiest of all and shall make a nice home; unless otherwise."



ITEMS


1. The husband is always right



2. The husband is always the master of the family even if he has no job and NO MONEY



3. The wife must ask for permission from the husband before going to bed if the husband isn't yet in bed, as well as before turning her face away from him on the bed. The husband is still the master and has full control on all the operations even in bed



4. If there is a quarrel with the husband and then a visitor comes, the wife should smile as if nothing happened



5. Anytime the wife thinks she is right in a matter, she should refer herself to Article number 1



6. A good wife must go to bed in her nightdress with no panties or bra, (except during your monthly flow, which he must know about) to allow the husband access to her at any time he feels like (NOTE: *All women should note that this is a man's greatest desire in marriage* - especially if he loves the woman)



7. A woman MUST NEVER refuse her husband's romance expect on the grounds of health and prayers. *Even in such cases she must POLITELY and LOVINGLY explain to him*



8. When the husband is shouting, the wife keeps quiet and that is the time to apologize for whatever has upset him. (NOTE: *Apologizing to him after you have shouted back and insulted him DOES NOT WORK!)*



10. The wife should always seek the husband's permission before making any decision except where he has previously granted you the permission on that particular issue








10. A wife should always excuse the husband to the children if he comes home late.


11. Even on a personal matter a wife waits for her husband with her ideas but must take those of her husband when he is back home


12. The wife must never use work in the day as excuse to deny him at night. Let him be the one to say, "Oh, you must be tired after all the stress of the day!" It is best that way.


13. The wife never goes to sit down in her husband's office unless in an urgent case or an emergency. A good husband too will not come and sit in your office.


14. A good wife does not embark on any kind of expenses without consulting the husband *even if it is your own money*. A good husband too will not control your money.


15. The best way to settle misunderstandings is in the bedroom. If a misunderstanding lingers and he does not make a move in bed, *a good wife should make the move*


16. The wife never refuses to prepare his meals, even if he is refusing to eat due to annoyance. *When he has refused 2 meals, prepare his favorite, with tempting treats*


17. The wife has no orders to give to her husband, but she receives orders from him


18. *The wife must always respect the husband*. Next to freedom of access to his wife's body, this is a man's most important concern


19. The wife has to control her jealousy and never show it in public


20. The good wife pays visits to her parents as well as to her in-laws *only* with the permission of the husband. And under normal circumstances, accompanied by the husband


21. A good wife never entertains guests in her home without the husband's knowledge and consent. *Not even your own relations*.

22. NEVER ENTERTAIN *ANY MALE GUEST* WITHOUT HIS KNOWLEDGE. *Not even his own blood brother* He may not talk or complain about some, but be sure he has counted it against you.


23. The wife *never* goes out anywhere without permission from her husband


*NB:* My dear fellow woman, I want you to know that *THE POWER OF A GOOD WIFE IS IN HER WEAKNESS*. Please, as stupid as this may sound to you, use it and watch your husband become your lover once again. This is my secret recipe for a happy marriage and full control of my home. *I did all the above and I was the one running the home; NOT MY HUSBAND!* His love and respect for me was second to none. And I know that's why God has also granted us long life to enjoy each other the more.

Also forward this to your female friends, *especially the married ones*, this will help them a lot.
#Copied

sino:
@ bold, you would have to tell that to Ibn Abbas (ra)...

O ya akh lanrexlan, go dig up his qabr

Crescentholm:
Jazzakumullahu khairan for the submission you resulted to.

Since I'll only be right if Isa a.s is to return with new law, According to an Hadith, just as Isa a.s is to Musa a.s, same will be t any other acclaimed apostle or the Mahdi on when he arrives. Because Allah has declared that the religion is complete.

So Isa will continue to be a prophet of Allah.

How's Jesus a.s to Moses a.s?
Jesus a.s is just a reformer / Messiah, to remind them teachings of Moses a.s.
Jesus himself testifies to it when he said that " he haven't come to destroy/ abolish the law of Moses a.s neither did he come with a new law, but to perfect the law.

From this verse Allah promises followers of Muhammad 4 ranks of honour and the first and highest is to attain prophethood down to an ordinary righteous Muslim.

Any re appearance of prophethood must be a reflection of the light of Muhammad s.a.w prophethood not an independent one.

Just as the Quran and Bible testifies clearly to the death of Jesus and his return, though in another form or appearance but with the same message as the person he's testifying against, when asked about his 2nd coming, seen below:

But instead of Elijah himself coming, John the Baptist was sent in the spirit of Elijah *(Luke 1:17,Mathew 17:10-13)

Also in support, the Quran makes it clearer that the dead can never return back to this earth *(21:96 and 23:100-101)*

So his re-appearance will remain a prophet as he's mission is to deliver Allah's message.

Let's justly review Ghulam Ahmad of Qadian, did he give a claim to any new law or book or theory outside the Quran (which is the basis of shariah)?

If yes, with sincerity and delicate proof, then we can jointly claim he's going against the tenet of Islam

Bro, i don't know where you studied while you were growing up. You just got many things wrong. First the ayat of Quran you *(21:96 and 23:100-101)* referenced do not correlate with the subject.

So i am just gonna address the issue of the "death of Jesus" you alleged. Quran does speak about maut(death). Maut is when the soul is taken but is not returned to the body. The same word maut is used in sura 39:42 which describes a "twin" death. This is more appropriate incident that happened to Isa(as) because Allah raised him. He didnt say Isa is dead. So it is crystal clear from the hadith the return of Isa(as) indicates he is not dead yet.

Everything else you said up there is only understood by you. I wont even bother myself over that. If you believe Isa(as) is not coming back with a new shari'ah or new Divine Book, then, his second appearance is not prove of a new prophethood but to unveil the Jews and the christians.

So, since Jesus a.s is to come back to perform same mission as a prophet of Allah (because He's acting under Allah's instructions), the word "KHATAMAN NABIYYIN" is best to be translated as "SEAL / BEST /MOST PERFECT of prophets" not last, because after a last, there can never be another last in any form whatsoever.

Sir, you got the wrong interpretation. Your old car is no longer new. It is still your first car even if you repaired and painted it and changed the engine, you will tell people it is your oldest car but you took it away to fix it. If you can't' tell people that your old Toyota car is your second car, then, Jesus's first appearance at birth was his right position. You have the wrong interpretation of Khataman nabiyyin. You are trying to bring bogus tawil and create confusion for yourself.

However, this doesn't make you kafir. It is just your misunderstanding. For as long as there is no NEW DIVINE BOOK AFTER QUR'AN, then, there is no prophet after nabi Muhammad. But if you claim there is, kindly show us "divine book" of such. Divine Book of Jesus (Injil) already came. So your claim is voided sir.

Crescentholm:
Thanks for your analogy and permit me to respond to it.

Alhamdulillah you said the car is still in my possession, when I gained possession of the second.


You claimed He's not on Earth, so that makes his second appearance a new one after the previous.

This is because if I have a car previously, I gave it out, got another, when the person I gave noticed​ my recent car is not in good condition and decided to give it back, it becomes my most recent car not my first.


Muhammad pbuh clearly states in the Quran that Isa a.s re-appearance is nabiyullah (that's as a prophet)

But where did you claim Jesus a.s was when Muhammad pbuh made the claim of Khataman nabiyyin?

you will only be right if Nabi Isa (as) is coming with a new Shariah. Since he's coming to abide by shariah of Nabi muhammad (s a w), he's not bringing a new Law.



Besides, his mission is limited. He's only returning for clarification Sura nisai 159 i:e to remove the veil from the eyes of Jews and Christians. He's not coming with a new religion or a new Book. Get the point? . That's why your old car is not returning from mechanic to perform the function of a new car. It will forever remain your first and oldest car.

Crescentholm:
will your acclaimed return of Jesus strip him of his title of prophet hood?

Isn't that cancelling your acclaimed last prophet?

Allow me to give you analogy. Let's say you bought your first Toyota Camry car in year 2000. That's 17 yr ago. In January 2015, this first car of yours was faulty and you took it to mechanic. It spent months at the mechanic until you bought your second car in December 2015 which is Jeep grand cherokee.

Your first car at the mechanic's repair was completed and you brought it home. Question is, is Toyota second car?

hummm interesting topic but old

lanrexlan:
Drinking of wine was widespread among the Arabs even before the advent of the Prophethood of Muhammed (Peace upon him and his household) and they were cases of Sahaabahs who were drinking. So that's why Allah made the prohibitions in stages. Allah NEVER gave anyone the permission to drink to wine (except for necessity) rather wine consumption was one of the vices rampant among Arabs then.

So I am afraid mut'ah doesn't fit in cos it seems to be a 'new legislation' which was allowed at least on two occasions.

You grabbed my point. This is what i was telling him all along based on evidences presented Hence, it can not zina by definition standard.

lanrexlan:

not even tea but beans loun loun

I won't even remember to brush my teeth, needless to use deodorant. Just me and my uniform.....Ere eee


I won't allow village people to 'do me'

AbdelKabir:
Won't you need "shia" view on this?

Why are you looking for trouble that sleeps jejeli, ehen?

Descendants Of Slaves Worshippers Of Mangod The Lady Hit The Nail On The Head.

These Are Slaves Below


plainbibletruth AlBHAGDADI Parisbookaddict Malvisguy212 Emusan Analice107

Sheikh Kamaldeen(ra) speaking on Iran-Iraq War, Compromise of Hijaz.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=67j9R29kphE

Who put you in this nonsense bondage before?. Did God give you permission of celibacy?


"Then, in their wake, We followed them up with (others of) Our messengers: We sent after them Jesus the son of Mary, and bestowed on him the Gospel; and We ordained in the hearts of those who followed him Compassion and Mercy. But the Monasticism which they invented for themselves, We did not prescribe for them: (We commanded) only the seeking for the Good Pleasure of Allah; but that they did not foster as they should have done. Yet We bestowed, on those among them who believed, their (due) reward, but many of them are rebellious transgressors". {Qur'an 57:27}