₦airaland Forum

timbros:


In zonal marking?

Zonal marking is a defensive strategy where defenders cover an area of the pitch rather than marking a specific opponent. If an opponent moves into the area a defender is covering, the defender marks the opponent

nitrogen:
No, Cleverley played the same role very well under Fergie. Hardwork, speed, quick ball release, no creativity.

The point is Henderson is kind of lucky

Pogba, Kante, and so many midfielders are below average this season....
He doesnt have much competition for the best midfielder role....

nitrogen:
Because Henderson doesn't hold ball for long. It's the system. The midfielders are supposed to recover the ball and release it quickly to the defenders.

Yes.
And release to the defenders ( Arnold and Robertson) playing more like a winger/wing back and also the attackers, .....this is the correct statement.....

Should I tell you the amount of through balls, played by Henderson in EPL this season??. So not just close and short passes.

pkasso:
Don't misinterpret what i said. You definitely need a proper football brain to play in midfield for Liverpool. Do Lingard and Perreira possess the same level of technical ability and tactical intelligence as Henderson and Wijnaldum? Do you think they just run around like headless chickens with no attention to team shape and structure?

Henderson has bn dispossessed just 4 times in 25 games...... Fabinho just 5 times in 20 games.

Lingard and Perrera can loose the ball 10 times in 30 minutes....

pkasso:
I don't think you fully understand the work those guys put in. They win balls, keep possession and also cover plenty of ground, something that doesn't get mentioned often enough.

In Klopp's first two seasons at Liverpool, the team was a neutral's delight. Their games were always open and chaotic. End to end stuff. You could always bet on them scoring and conceding. I still remember Liverpool winning a 9-goal thriller at Carrow Road. The team was playing good but there was no balance.

Klopp then decided to tweak the system. The departure of Coutinho to Barca and constant injuries to Lallana and Oxlade-Chamberlain meant there were no creative influence in midfield. So he made changes. Henderson and Wijnaldum took on deeper roles and Fabinho was bought.

Their style of play is simply down to tactical instructions. Fabinho used to chip in goals from midfield during his time at Monaco. Wijnaldum scores goals for fun when playing for Holland and we all know Henderson isn't afraid to shoot. Remember that stunner against Chelsea some seasons back?

The truth is Man utd fans ( biased one) are the one down-playing Henderson....they are surprised that he could turn out, this good....

Henderson is not good, ... And he is the first name in England (assistant captain) and Liverpool (captain) midfield.....

Without Alison, ....Liverpool won all their matches...

Without Mane and Salah... Origi and Shaqiri played and they won...

Liverpool with Henderson =87% win rate(highest in the team)
Liverpool without Henderosn = 53% win rate.

Agenda must agend


Keita stuggle when playing in Liverpool midfield, ....lingard and Perreira wil shine

ChristineC:
this was LvG's default and it was almost never dominated. scratch that, it was never dominated and Fellaini was a huge part of it.

compare Fellaini and Henderson. this is Henderson's best season, by ............. far. at least Big Fella was a consistent menace. for the British press to even push Henderson's name forward is an embarrassment to all past winners of the award.

So you are saying, 2014/2015 season, Phil jones was better than Degea, Smalling and Herrera (judging by this ratings)

ChristineC:
check the image i attached so you wouldn't think Son is replacement for Kane again.
the same BBC stashed in Henderson level with Son.
so it's either you are wrong or BBC is confused. if BBC is confused, why are we debating their epl team of the year in the first place? let's wait for the official one ei.

You are using BBC 11 to determine a player's position

Why not use what you watch on TV, spurs line up and south korea

timbros:
Chelsea is suffering from set piece this season because of Lampard using zonal marking frequently instead of Man marking.

I'm sure you know how zonal marking system works.

Put Terry, Cahill and Ivanovic with this same zonal marking.......... lets see if the problem will still be there

Zouma that will always jump before ball..............Rudiger will loose the player he is suppose to mark

thorrvik55:
How about ur almighty David De Gea that cannot comfortably command his area during set piece even if his life depended on it??
Is commanding ur area during set pieces not a dfault characteristic of every goalkeeper?

Dont mind them abeg....

They are saying default, as if all defenders are good in the air.

As a goalkeeper, you train on set peice each training session, still yet, De gea is still bad at it.

ChristineC:
is Son a striker?

He never played as 9 @ spurs when kane was injured??

Which position does he play for South-korea??

Check the image attached, so you wont compare Henderson and Son again.

ChristineC:
[img]http://media1./images/6eca215ed94f6fcd665e3748060ed5b8/tenor.gif[/img]

You are comparing Son with Henderson,.... if i allow you to continue, you might compare him with Kane and Aguero.

Lets wait for EPL verdict.

Iniesta, Xavi and Busquet were tackling,intercepting and recovering ( they are not the main part of the possession play) the ball for Pique, Puyol, Abidal, Alves and the attackers to play the possession football

You will always learn tactics on nairaland

ChristineC:
is this my handwriting? or defensive midfielders and attacking midfielders are not allowed in the midfield of toty?

Let me help you....

ChristineC:
don't be too sure you'll find 3 midfielders clearly better than Fletcher that year without checking. i can put it to the test now and you'll fail flat.

next i'll hear is some of these guys below are strikers

Son = Forward

Ndidi = Defensive midfielder

Madison = Attacking midfielder

Try again...... but i will still compare there statistics...... wait for it

ChristineC:
for emphasis, this is his passing comparison with other players who had high output in passing stats for that season.
no propaganda machinery was rolled out behind him.

I can bring out 3 midfielders who had better statistics than Fletcher in 2009/2010.......

Bring out 3 midfielders who have better statistics than Henderson this season.

We are not comparing Henderson and Fletcher, but Henderson and other midfielders this season.....difference is clear

nitrogen:
Hehe, I am not a bush god, you already told me what I need to hear. See my initial post below:



See what your response was:



I just proved to you that Liverpool's midfield is the weakest of the three departments.

Liverpool midfield that outplay/dominate/outrun all midfield in EPL

Liverpool midfield that support Arnold and Robertson defensively ( they are both average defensively)

This same Henderson have more tackles than Van dijk, Arnold, Robertson and the rest defenders.

If you dnt know, Liverpool midifeld is their engine room...... They can still win games without Salah or Mane by using Shaqiri and Origi,.... Let them bench those first choice midfielders and play

nitrogen:
You are confusing yourself, the thing is this, if an opponent sits deep, then it gives your midfielders the chance to be more involved. Reason Barca and City midfielders pass the ball around a lot (and not just the defenders).

Klopp has always tried to bypass the midfield. What happens most times is that the defenders have more touches than midfielders because he thinks they are just there to help with ball recovery, they are not technical enough for the type of possession football that Barca and City plays.

Anyway, you are back to my point that you can have high possession by having your defenders do a lot on the ball. And to your last point, there are few technical midfielders in the EPL, also, the style is quite different, dont be suprised if you see midfielders dominate the list of passes in other leagues.

You have changed the topic so many times

1. From comparing Henderson to Fabinho and Wilnajdum................... I did, you moved to

2. Midfielders shud have the highest passes in a team like Man city ( just this season, that is still yet to end)............. i prove you wrong with Man city best passers from the past 2 seasons and current best passers in EPL...................... you jump to

3. You dnt need top midfielders to be a possesion team,...

Mention just 1 possesion based team with shitty midfielders and i will mention 5 different possesion teams with shitty defenders

Herbiedeen:
A certain Arsenal with Santos, Mertesacker, Jekinson, Djourou

Your defenders dnt need to be top class.....

Arsenal defence then wasnt top class

Barcelona defence wasnt top class, even till now

Man city defence is rubbish,,,,

I told him ooo, you just need good midfielders,

nitrogen:
Do you want to start turning Amala like Dayo niii? Why did you post top 5 for a year and top 6 for another? Also, 2017/2018 season says something different. Otamendi was number one, the next there were midfielders.

Anyway, my point is, you can still have high possession with shitty midfielders, just get your defenders to do most of the passing, crossing, and even play through balls to attackers. That is exactly what Liverpool has been doing in the last 2 years. Check their 2018-2019 stats.

1. Liverpool play is different from Barcelona, Arsenal and Man city possession game,.......Theirs is coupled with intense HIGH - PRESSING

2. Defenders can have the highest pass in the team in a Possession team,.... because opponent sit deeper, giving defenders chance to pass the ball around, without any real pressure from opponent....... there are some games, Ederson (Man city goalkeeper) do have more touches than opponent players.

3. Maybe you should mention a team that played possession game, with shitty midfielders.......

This same season,... 5 defenders are in top 6 highest passers in EPL

nitrogen:
Maybe you still dont get my point. See City's stats below. The midfielders lead in terms of number of passes, how come it's not the same for Liverpool?

Essentially, depending on the style, you can have high possession by having your defenders hold the ball and pass around for a long time.

Maybe you will understand with a full complete season, when Man city are playing at the top of their game.

Defenders had the highest pass for them in 2017/18 and 2018/19 seasons

He even had more Tackles, Interception, Blocks and Clearance than the so called Defensive midfielder...Fabinho

Fabinho no even follow,....Henderson beat him hands down in every single department

nitrogen:
Wait, dont you know that you can easily have lots of possession in games with less involvement of the midfield? Your defenders can always pass the ball around for several minutes before releasing it to the midfield or even the attackers. See the picture below for Liverpool players with their number of passes this season.


Meanwhile, can you show us 19/20 statistics for each midfielder at Liverpool (Wijnaldum vs Henderson vs Fabinho)?

You cant have a possession based team without good midfielders,.... go check out the midfield of Arsenal then, Barcelona and Man city....

If not for the midfielders, you would have notice how liverpool backline is not that strong like you think ( Arnold especially)

Check the statistics attached.....Henderson played less than Wilnadum, but still manage to hv better records

raumdeuter:
Rank Liverpool players by their importance to the team this season

Alisson. 7/10
Trent 8/10
VVD 8/10
Robertson 8/10
Mane 8/10
Salah 8/10
Henderson 8/10

Henderson is the most improved player among them, ..and also had major impact both in Defence, Midfield and Attack.....no other player had same impact, on all areas on the field.... Without him, they struggle.

raumdeuter:
Every player on the field is important but some are more important than others
No one said Liverpool has bad midfielders Fabinho and Wijnaldum are great. even in the Liverpool 3 midfielders, i think Henderson is the least

Henderson got better statistics than Fabinho and Wijnadum this season.

He is the first name on Liverpool and England midfield...this is not the same Henderson you know.

Wetin be this

raumdeuter:
Rank liverpool players by their importance to the team

All of them are important in their positions....

Liverpool dominated 98% of teams they played btw last season and this season.... You can't dominate teams with bad midfielders.

eph12:
Apparently they're not contributing enough to lfc success.

He is not good, he is not good....

--Henderson is the no one name in England and Liverpool midfield, Southgate and Klopp dnt have sense.
---Emre Can had to leave, after serious benching
-- Milner and Keita cant bench him.

Liverpool

Touches= 2nd in EPL

Passes = 2nd in EPL

Through-balls= 5th

Clean sheet= 1st

Possession = 2nd

21 goals conceded so far

And the midfielders (Henderson and co ) are not good.... Analyst full nairaland

timbros:
Quote the mistake please.

I just want to correct that your statement......... "there is notin special in a defender winning aerial balls"

timbros:
I was expecting you to quote where I said what you claimed above. Obviously you couldn't.

Dnt take it serious,

You made a mistake in that your statement.....its all good now

What is special, when a striker score goals?? he is trained to score naturally

what is special, when a defender tackle, intercept and block?? he is trained to do that naturally

What is special when a Goalkeeper mk a save?? he is trained to do that naturally

Nothing is special in football