₦airaland Forum

@ post.
I feel that alot of men while masking the traditional, Nigerian structure as the most "peaceful" way of keeping a family,
really mean "easier". It's "easier" to allow your ego to control your actions, It's "easier" to pretend that every woman
should be satisfied with what ever little you are willing to give her. I suggest that these ones( and the women that let them get away with it) grow some backbone and decide to do what is right instead of what is easy.
Both women and men are changing, and in the end we to will not be exempt from these changes
no matter how much be try.

I think family structure is focused on happiness; or, at least it was until some women began nagging. Unhappy women concerned with gender are the ones whinning about changing its structure.

It was based on happiness, mostly the happiness of men who were carrying the title of "head".
After all, if women were so "happy" then why would they "nag"?
LOL @ the "unhappy women" comment!
Men seem to enjoy passing off women's objections as "whining", "nagging", or "bitching" in or to make our opinions seem worthless.

@ crazylegs

Queen is awesome!
even though they have 39578945098437509847 songs, they all rock!

@ HCH3COO aw, I knew you missed me LOL

These same people constitute the public. They are the same ones going to church soaking in those religions taught to them. It determines their public attitude.

Which is one of the problems that I do have with any kind of formal religion, I see no problem with people's personal faith and see no harm in it, but when both those who do and don't [/i]follow a certain doctrine are effected by it's influence then it not only becomes an inconvenience but also hinders natural sociocultural progress.

So, with the ratio of men to women being approximately 50:50, what/who do you suppose is responsible for the misinformation that women are the weaker sex if not they themselves? I justify this with the rationale that if women can succumb so easily to the brainwash that they are not as intelligent, strong, or as good as men, aren't they their own villains? Those of you, or those educated among us, who now fight to erase that false impression are responsible for suppressing that stereotype

Ah, that part in bold is the real question, isn't it? In fact there is actually are very few feminists that are willing to ponder this question ( hence, why I know little to no other feminists LOL), seeing it as a "distraction" ( or whatever else they can pass it off as), but I have pondered this question personally and what I've come to think is that people in general are very "sheep-like", very few are born with (or able to develop) the ability to truly think for themselves, to question why they themselves do the things they do. Then there are the few of us that are willing to ask questions, such as the ones I ask and the one you just asked me. I do think that the majority of women have a sort of, passivity that can serve as both a weapon and a wound. It allows women to "pick their battles" so to speak, more precisely than most men, but then it leads to never wanting to fight for anything at all, or never seeing the point in it, it's this attitude that I think has carried most of the weight for holding us back for so long. I will also agree that the majority of men seem to have a certain thirst for authority or dominance whether or not it is actually deserved or appropriate. Humans may technically be animals, but just because something "feels" right doesn't always means it is. Humans have also been proven to follow more than lead, its obvious in the way that trends, advertising, fear, etc works so well in society. I think that naturally men and women will be able to shrug off these roles with time, in the form of natural sociocultural evolution. I mean lets be honest, in the 1910's would you have ever thought a woman could drive a car or a man could babysit his kids for even once? I mean, you're talking about sitting with the kids and and acknowledging that your wife may be "too tired to cook"?The idea was unheard of! ( American wives in colonial times would sometimes come from working in the fields and be made to make dinner in a "bitch i want chicken!" style LOL) The roles as slowly loosened up over time and I think that with time they will just "evaporate" with time. As for those of us that would like the shrug off that stereotype ( and truthfully, I do think that a lot of women are just [i]not thinking, especially to how fast they bend to men's, the economy and other womens wills and expectations), may be whats "coming next" (Note to self: find a way to sound more like a pompous asshole, come on! you can do it, ) I mean, more educated, more thoughtful and opinionated, etc; and in a country where that is not usually taken well from women, it does (naturally) arouse some anger , I think that if society as a whole could accept women like this as individuals and not as a bunch of stuck up brats who don't know "their place", then we can surely have harmony. AND due to the fact that men have obviously made some great changes over time as well, I amjust more encouraged to think that it will all happen on its own, with the right people and at the right time.

Yes, it is relatively new but you must remember that many Nigerian women are not as civilized as their Western others. Not everyone has a chance at an education which not only builds their mind, but sharpens their logic. Furthermore, they live in a country where tradition/religion actually dictates what governs the people. Those teaching them at the schools are feeding them nonsense. Since a lot of them live at/below poverty line and cannot afford the education to train their thoughts, they have no choice but to adapt to what has been in practice. Is it fair? No, but do you have a solution for it?

I agree with this entirely. and it is one the the greatest tragedies of our nation, that in out own country we can not excersise our minds to our full potentials, but abroad Nigerians are usually marveled at (labeled with ) for their intelligence. Again, I do think that it is something that we will have to do for ourselves, their are people that

So you suggest they find other alternatives? There are many jobs around, correct?

Well I can only truthfully speak for my area, but the job market round here is reaaaaaaaaaaalllllly tightening up, since high school graduates/college students are now competing for jobs with adults over 30 that didn't go to college, this fact is turning me into an "ageist" I do think that people will just have to manage here in US till things get better and people get smarter.

I agree with you - the part in bold - 500% . But I am still by no means promoting the idea that those who can cook should starve those who can't, because they feel cooking is a sign of weakness. That sort of punishment is cruel, especially when done to a person you love.

Yea I agree with that a lot! Infact, LOL, my mom taught me that when i tried to send my sister to bed without eating cause she didn't rake the leaves (or something just as dumb, hey i was petty when i was 13, sue me ), she said "You never, ever, EVER punish people with food!, EVER *common naija slap*" Which is true, I mean, thats just sinister!

LOL funny you say that. I saw an article recently which showed that far many years ago the products favored McFattening. Funny how things change, huh ?

Ugh, are you serious? Maybe Freud was right about people and their "Death Wish", but not with me, I'm one of the "freaks" *stirs pot of egusi soup*
I think the reluctance that most people have to eat healthy foods (when they are available) is just another part of people's "sheep-like" traits, I mean, so what if it is modern, easy to get and advertised everywhere? It makes you sick!

Yeah, but as a man who prefers some of the olden techniques of family structure, I would like to keep some of those intact because I believe it will work better in my house. What's more important to me is a happy family. If that can be done with me being a bread winner and my wife a housewife, I will gladly accept. If it requires me to help more around the house while my wife also works to support the family, that's fine too. If it includes asking my wife to take up the responsibilities of handling more of the household/motherhood duties while I work more, she shouldn't view that as me negating from her humanity. I can help around the house, help take care of my kids, etc . . . . . no problem. This does not make the women who take charge of the responsibilities of being a sort of "housewife" inferior to me.

I agree with all of this to , It all depends on who you are and what will work for you as an individual and the most important thing is that you and you're family are happy with the life you have chosen. This is another reason why I don't agree with many feminists on the whole"family structure" idea, I want to have kids, love to cook, have to be sure my house is clean (tidyness calms me ) and why i want to be heavily involved in my work I would most likely slow it down after a few children and to some feminists this equals "brainwashed", i mean honestly, the whole point of "feminism" to me is women and men getting the most out of each other, I mean we can't just push each other onto separate islands, or [i]can [/i]we? *evil scientist cackle*

The part in bold . . . what if the life you have, as a result of the place you live, doesn't give you too much lee-way?
Believe me, only a worthless man with no shame would wait for his wife to come home from work to feed him and still not help around the house. I do not wish that for any woman. I don't know if men like that exist because I am yet to run into them, or hear about them. Even traditional families that dump the title of "housewives" on women strongly expect the man to work hard and take charge of the family's upkeep.

you are right, and again I can't go around shoving pamphlets in peoples faces at the village, or [i]can [/i]I? But I will sit back and let nature take it course, there will always be people that see to be a bit "behind".
On the second part, I also agree and will admit that my perspective is limited on that, since the I rarely see families like the one you just described, what I usually see is; men, who may act out towards their working wives in fear of losing authority, which is sad to me.

In short, find someone you are compatible with who shares similar views as yours; otherwise, if you get stuck with a man whose brain is sewn in reverse there is no chance of you ever getting him to understand that you're "too tired to do laundry for the night". Grin

HAHAHAHAHAHA @ the part in bold! Yea, that really all there is to it, find what works for you, I'm just tired of seeing people let outside opinions and ideas control their actions in personal relationships, but then again a lot of people just aren't very independent in their thinking.

Are there husbands who wish to be househusbands? Maybe 1 in 10000?

Yep, they are there! But I'm not sure if we are at the point where we can "name" them yet so *Shhhhhhhhhh!*

Ok! My turn!

Hmmm growing up I actually didn't have many friends, but I was drawn to the punk scene, I loved the high energy music, the casting off of mainstream beauty standards, basically just the rebellion from society in general

My parents put a huge emphasis on the importance of education, but I was always reading things way higher than my grade level, which diminished my interest in my grade school work, till i got to college that is and was able to work around that .

I think my parents were more protective since the few friends that I had were into the punk/goth/alt scene as well and they didn't know much about it, it wasn't till they realized that I'm actually a good person that they eventually loosened up

The few people that I invited over to eat loved the food me and my mom prepared, usually asking me to bring it to school LOL!

My mom makes african wears for living and we were always decked out in african clothes, I remember all of our neighbors staring at us the first Sunday we were going to church, I thought a fly was going to enter their mouths !!!

I did have a lot of white friends during high school but as I got older I slowly began to opt for fewer more meaningful friends, most of which are african Americans who are into various things, I , for one, still have a bit of "punk rock" edge to my style, even though I usually just wear anything I can find.

There was a clash between alot of the Nigerians here and back home, but I don't really bother with the ones here (unless they seem to be worth the effort) and back home I just stick to my family (which is a whole 'nother set of differences).

I do hope to eventually befriend and even travel with some Nigerian-Americans, since the few I know that are in the alt scene seem to share alot in common with me. I also met some on the site www.afropunk.ning.com

I'm not sure I would.
I'm afraid they would end up on vh1 like the
other ones that don't know when to quit

Yeah, whats so special about nigerian music? I don't like nmost. They are usually copy cats and do a terrible job at it. For example P-Squared who copy Usher proudly or on of these girls that rap like Eve, whats that her name sef? But there are a few originals like Asa, T Y Bello, Infinity, Rooftop MCs, Sound Sultan and Lagbaja. Maybe few others i don't remember now. Naija artistes should be more creative and original.
MOst Naija music i must confess SUCK.

Yea, I have noticed alot of the current stuff sounding like bad american music, but i'm not a fan of most mainstream music in America ( i find it to be soulless and pointless) either so maybe I'm just an old crone . I'm a huge lyric freak though, so while I may like the beat or instrumentals of the song, if the lyrics are bad then I just see the song as bad entirely. I know and love some of those artists that you mentioned, you may want to check out my post on older Nigerian music, you may even own that "Nigerian Rock Special" I featured.

White Stripes
The Misfits
The Dirtbombs
Le Tigre
Betty Davis ( I thinks shes rock!! )

For those of us that were born abroad, how do you think this effected you and your relationships with natives of that country, your country and your loved ones?
How did your enviornment affect your parents? Were they more protective? Busier?
How about your friends? Were you ever questioned of your family's "strange" behavior/food/clothing?

@ post

As an American born Nigerian, I can tell you this:

even we, that are born here, are treated differently since we are Africans
even if you don't see it they do, it's all on how they take it.

eg: My mother's friend's son was with some America friends when they we were pulled over and searched, on of his friends had a car that was eventually linked to a robbery that had happend a week before, of course they all initially went to jail and when the court date came all of the american boys insisted that it was "that african kid's" gun, no lie. Only through more testing and interrogation was he proven innocent.

That's not all, I live in a small state but even here the stories of Nigerian boys being arrested, killed, etc due to actions that are not their own and the whole "gang up" in court thing is quite common

I hate to say it, but thank goodness I had a "crazy african mother" who could always scout out the "bad ones" before I could and gave me a curfew of 6 o'clock, I now a "sixth sense" when it comes to trouble LOL, but I think that most american born nigerians may have been raised this way, am i right?

I agree with the original post, I think that monogamy is not for everyone, and has proven (with humans ever-so-prominent promiscuity) not to be. The idea that a spouse or partner doesn't "love" someone if they wish to have other sexual partners, to me, sounds silly, sex is an action that is done not just to reproduce or to show affection, but (let's be honest) to "get off". It's a pleasurable, animal act and many relationships are suffering because while they may be linked to someone in every aspect, there are sexual desires that are yet to filled, which can cause a whole other set of problems. Some people find that "swinging" , having an open relationship, adding another wife/husband, etc; tightens their bond and actually raises trust.
Monogamy is achievable and right for some couples but it takes a conscious effort that usually has be be enforced with something other than a promise made to your partner ( personal beliefs/morality ,religion, etc). There are people that enjoy a "closed" or "private" relationship including the effort it takes to keep such a relationship as is.

A man has earned his right to be the breadwinner of the household as dictated, in our country, by our religious beliefs. The man has been ordained as the one responsible for managing the finances which is why he spends his days working. He is also obligated to provide the authority and emotional strength when the family needs somebody to look up to.

This would be fine if it were limited to their own personal household, but people, Nigerians in particular, have not yet learned how to separate their own religious beliefs and interpretations from the public, there have been women who have been denied jobs or higher positions in their workplace because the one in charge assumed that as women, they either weren't capable, deserving or entitled to the job, I will admit that sometimes between a man and a woman, the man has proven himself to be the better one for that particular job, but I think denying that women are looked upon by society as the "weaker sex" is unrealistic, not just because of religious views but because of history.
I would understand that this could work in a family that actually wanted this, but in Nigeria, I find that women are not taken as seriously in the job market, this may be due to the fact that the idea is still pretty new ( American women were also treated with some resentment when they first entered the job market), and this contributes to the amount of women that have decent jobs, or were even encouraged to look for a job other than a nurse or a teacher. This is changing though, but I see so many Nigerian women with master degrees and no jobs, because they feel it is "not their place" to work or afraid that people, like the poster, will not see them as "suitable" wives, they are limiting their own progress more so out of fear than actual preference.



Quote

Why are the women not filing lawsuits in court against it, or why do they not go elsewhere to look for jobs which pay them what they feel they deserve? The law clearly states equality for all, so that's a problem with the company structure, not with the men working there.
The part in bold is just your biased perspective at work again.

Actually, there have been quite a few lawsuits over the matter, I'm not sure where you live but in America, lawsuits can be VERY pricey, especially when against a corporation or a business, and alot of these women can't afford it, for obvious reasons.

If a man wants to make his food he can go ahead and do that, no one is telling him not to. There are men who cannot make their own food because they were not even interested in cooking, so if the wife can cook why shouldn't she? you know that most men are naturally not brought up in the kitchen, but are outside instead doing works requiring more physical strength. Would you rather starve the family because you feel it's inferior to cook for your husband, even after all the work he has done?
If you are working more as the wife, find a way to reach a compromise with your husband. He should be the one working those heavy hours instead.

There are men that could not make their own food due to lack of interest, or being told that as a man they would not have to cause they wife was supposed to do it, and some women cannot cook due to their previous lifestyle or just never having interest in it. Honestly i think that everyone should learn how to cook , it always comes in handy, and its the only way you can have real control over what you and (possibly) your family eat in this McDiet of a world. I can acknowledge that most Nigerian men just aren't taught how to cook, through no fault of their own and most Nigerian girls are, but the way we were raised is only a part of who we are, some men could make the effort to learn and yes, it may be hard but I see it as progress, I think both men and women need to know that helping around the house does not make you inferior, you're just being helpful.

If I had a husband that worked or worked more hours than me, then of course I would feel responsible for keeping up the house and feeding the children,it would be my part as the "at home partner" and i would expect that if it was reversed he would understand that it's his duty to help with that instead , (I think that some women think that doing so makes you inferior, because the two ideas have been linked for so long) you should mold yourself to the life you have, no matter what your gender is.

I don't think that men should always be the ones working outside of the house more than women, like I said before, times are changing, but we are all entitled to our opinions; After all, I have met african women that got a degree with NO plans of ever working, simply because its what they wanted, they love to cook, keep a tidy house and want to have a bird's eye view of their children growing up, it had nothing to do with what society wanted or expected from them, they just didn't like the idea of being away from home and realized that the only way to maintain such a lifestyle was to find a partner that could support it. But some women love their children and families just as much, but find their passion lies in the workforce and may find themselves discontented if not working, since they will obviously putting a lot of time into their work, then who else would be expected to help with the housework/feeding but her spouse? That's just the way I see it.




I

f they can find him they can go for it, but we both know the chances are slim. If you do find him, tell him I said he's a lazy man who needs to get his a$s to work.

Ok, honestly? some men (and women) are lazy, usually the type that run from job to job, never do housework, also asking his/her spouses parent's for money, that kind of thing. But since I find that being a housewife is just as hard, if not harder, than being a part of the workforce, I would not consider a man that wishes to be a househusband "lazy".

@ post

Wow. that has be enraging, I mean, i almost slapped a girl that accused me of taking her barrette once
If you are being truthful, I surely do wish you the best, theres nothing worse than being accused and punished for something you did not do.

I think the thing that my mom says that just irks me is when I really want to do/have something that she doesn't want me to do/have and
i insist upon it and she says:

"we shall see"


ARGHHHHHHHHH! i would pay money to have her not say that anymore! I think the worst part is that it looms over me before i'm going to get/do that thing and sometimes forces me to chicken out, LOL!!!

permit me 2 answer,

u look him striaght in the eye and tell him that u[b] have just tested positive 2 HIV[/b]. let him do d maths

HAHAHAHAHA! OMG that is sinister!!

@ OP
No offense but how old are you? I'm guessing you're probably around 2 to 3 hrs old, that's why this comes as a shock to you. It also explains why you think only Nigerian men kill their wives. . . yes, they are all over the news like

Scott Adebayo Peterson killed his wife Laci Tutu Peterson.
Charles Jide Stuart shot his wife Carol Banke Stuart.
David Chike Magraw strangled his wife Nancy Adanna Magraw
Joseph Sule Romano killed and dismembered his wife Katherine Hajara Romano

Seriously, are you ok. . . I suggest you go take a nap, babies need all the sleep they can get.

BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

My fave was "David Chike Macgraw" It's true! We are not in the news that much so when we are it is quite a shock and it is always made out to be more than it is, like "oh golly, what are those savages doing in our peaceful land now?"

But i do always freak out with glee when I see a Nigerian name on tv, (reporters, journalists, models, etc)
"OMG! OMFG! she's igbo/Yoruba/etc" LOL

I do understand where a misunderstanding may occur between Nigerian women and Nigerian men, due to out of date expectations and social evolution, to me this is proof that we are all suffering from gender roles in our country, what could work then can't always work now and we need to stop trying to make it work in a time where these roles don't always apply. I wonder if its harder for African men to adapt to new ideas on family structure because the past one placed them at the "head" so to speak, and they may feel like they should have what their father's had or see it as a threat to their self-worth or power. Our women are thinking outside their boxes, they are doing new things and we should try to embrace them and African women should understand that men in our country are changing to and not to pass them all off as assholes (except for when they are LOL ), their are non-conventional Nigerian men that have had the benefit of seeing both sides of the coin and are willing to accommodate new ideas on balance, gender roles, etc and then there are those that are just waiting for someone to teach them , this applies to African women as well, since I can't tell you them number of times I've heard an african man say " I can't date african women, I need someone with opinions and boldness, blah blah blah". All african women are not stupid or weak (some are just as some white/asian/hispanic/etc women are) and not every African man is ignorant and unchanging.

" he came to me and said "I read 'Things Fall Apart' and I think it's tragic that african men are heartless tyrants" I turned to him and said "I read 'American Psycho' and I think its tragic that white men are all serial killers, "

- Chimamanda Ngozi Adichie

that link didn't work

what kind of "indecent" do you mean? You mean clothes that are shorter/tighter than usual? If so please remember that you are actually comparing african women to the European standards of "decency" which were brought to Nigeria with colonization. While Europeans were were wearing khakis and petticoats, we were dressed according to our surroundings in well, less. The human body was something that we never feared until whites told us to, this standard of "decency" is an obvious reminder of the effects colonization still has on us today

Please!!! People of all nationalities kill their wives all the time, I think that Nigerian/African men get much more focus while abroad because of the stigma against african men in general as domineering tyrants, which other men are also capable of being and isn't always true . Another thing i have noticed is that people assume african women that migrate here as "spoiled" back home, I do admit that leaving your home to go ANYWHERE will force you to widen your perspective and take on new ideas, but just because something is different does not mean that it is wrong, we have to learn how to grow beyond our own walls. This may have been the cause of the poor woman's death : built up frustrations in a man that couldn't or did not want to understand new ideas.

Structure in relationships should not be focused on gender.
If, maintaining the upkeep of the home doesn't "take away" or make you "inferior"
then why are so many men reluctant to do it? I think that its men that should realize this more than anyone,
women had been put in the box of "homemaker" for so long that I think most of us know that by now.

I honestly do not understand what you meant by "YOU PUT IT SO BAD" Could you please come down to my lay~man level?

And if you are making reference to my single parenting escapade in America, such is life here in America. Most Nigerians in Nigeria would wonder how anyone becomes a single parent because the cultural setups in Nigeria frowns against women bearing children out of wedlock. A woman would rather abort a child in Nigeria to protect her religious or cultural status.

This is very true, I wonder why women suffer more of the consequences of such events since it is obvious that we are not getting ourselves pregnant. It also pains me to notice that while abortion is illegal in Nigeria, there are no laws that require a man to support children that are conceived unintentionally, in fact there is not much enforcement of laws that are (usually) geared toward women's safety or rights (rape, domestic abuse, abortion, etc)

WOW! Thanks so much!