Na wa... how can a driver a high speed molest u and push u out of the car at the same time. How can a man dtiving at full speed even molest u?

spencekat:
That guy is not a true Pastor.

You are judging him. Do u want God to punish u?

How did u know he is not a true pastor? Are u God? Do u think God will not instruct the pastor to act like that if he thinks the womans problems lies underneath her panties?

Because u have reservations for a womans underwears and privates does not mean God will not do his work.

U better repent for judging?

If i may ask... what makes Oyedepo a man of God?

budaatum:
Kovah, I am unfortunately pivoted on the side of western superiority over Nigeria, a side most Nigerians would shirk from holding because it would seem like denigrating my own. Unfortunately, sentiment aside, history is there to observe who had the advantage. It would depend which periods one is considering, of course, for a like for like comparison.

One indicator is history. The more developed a nation was in the past, the more historical records there are showing that development. Go and search for written history about Africa, and you'd find we hardly kept any. How could we have been as developed as nations that kept more detailed and older historical records?

Writing, another indicator, was non-existent in Nigeria until the arrival of Islam and Arabic. It is why our alphabet had to be created by westerners, and along western lines.

Now consider art. Western art had advanced way further than art had in Nigeria by the 1500s, and even our Nok art, which could be called sculptures, had been significantly superseded by the time we were making that art. The reason the Westerner stole ours was not because it was superior, but because, in their opinion, we had never been able to produce such things, and because they were in a superior position so as to steal it without us being able to do anything about it!

Religion, is another indicator of social advancement . Our religions, by the time the westerners arrived, were disjointed, and in Yorubaland, even the worship of the same gods was not universal across neighbouring societies. What Ogun and Sango requested of it's adherents in one community was not necessarily what Ogun and Sango requested in a neighbouring community, whereas, by about 1000AD, Yahweh, was pretty much supreme in most of Western Europe. They had abandoned the equivalent archaic gods of Zeus and Aphrodite, to name a couple, years before and long after some still clung on to Ogun and Sango and still do in current Nigeria! It is Yahweh's superiority that has overwhelmed our gods and turned them into what most refer to as demons today, sadly. If our gods had united and united us, Yahweh would have easily been repelled.

And in case you do not know, Islam had been invading western Nigeria long before the arrival of the westerner. Some have claimed that trans-sahara slavery, a consequence of those invasions, resulted in more people enslaved than those enslaved in the trans-atlantic slave trade!

Then look at philosophy. While Egypt, an African nation, was very well advanced in this by the beginning of the first millennium, albeit couched behind the veil of the gods Osiris et al, Europe was having much more involved discourse about philosophical ideas while Nigeria wasn't.

Now fast forward to the 16th Century. The Western European was travelling the world in very large vessels and covering distances we never imagined existed. They were using ideas and technology we knew nothing of and were able to exploit the void in our knowledge. While they were staring at the moon and planets and writing thesis about them, we were afraid to enter the forests in our backyards least gbomogbomo takes us away and sell us as slaves.

Then consider today. Yes, they impose their ideas and technology on us, but it must be noted that they do not exactly have to over exert themselves for us to accept it. And our acceptance is not out of ignorance but out of acknowledgment of the superiority of what they produce compared to what we produce. Or who amongst us would chose to purchase a made in Nigeria car or phone if they can afford a second hand western made and already used to death one? Do we even make any of these things? Even our said cars are run on imported petrol, and in a country that is amongst the top ten producers of the raw product from which that petrol is made!

And for your information, oil was first discovered at the Oloibiri Oilfield on Sunday 15 January 1956 by Shell Darcy after a lot of exploration by many other western companies. The westerners did let you go after it was discovered though as you wrongly claim, and, they kept their grubby fingers on that oil until we kicked them out with various Indigenisation Bills starting in the early 70s.

I mention all this because of the consequence of not realising as a nation, how far we have developed compared to other nations. Japan, the Land of the Rising Sun, too thought they were superior until the might of the west showed them they weren't, which propelled them to do something about it. China, the most populous nation on earth, realised how far backward they had gotten, and have done a great leap forward to rectify the situation. The Arab world took one look at the objective reality, and while they claim Allah is superior, they accept that a thatched hut in the desert can not be said to be superior to the magnificent stone buildings built in the west. They have been doing quite a lot to rectify the situation . But we Nigerians imagine a glorious past where we were superior and so do nothing to move us forward, while the reality is that we recede further backward compared to the more developing nations.

While the West base their progress on objective reality and build institutions of technology, we seem to think miracles would prevail and build temples in which to pray to gods we create with our imaginations, an ideology the west abandoned centuries ago when they realised it was taking them into darkness which we are in now!

There is a consequence to building up subjective imaginary realities in our heads and refusing to face the objective facts, and it's like believing one can survive in a room that the oxygen has been sucked out of! I think we agreed what the end of that folly is.

Wow... nicely written.

Butterflyleo:


You seem lost in your own argument. Science cannot prove or disprove God yet you keep asking for VERIFIABLE EVIDENCE for Gods existence. God has already proven himself to man. Something you and the entire league of scientists who are atheists have been trying forever to disprove. I wonder why?

How did God prove himself to man?

He already has revealed himself to you which is why you are without excuse and that was why I quoted Romans 1:20 to you

God did not reveal himself to me.. how dis he reveal himself to me?

You seem lost. There can be no inferred meaning if there was no physical action to link it to.

Everything in life comes with a reward. This reality of life is independent of the mind. Our mind does not control it because it just is that way.

In otherword... ur mind has no power?
What has rewards got to do with this?
The pwer of the mind i meant in my first statement only implies how man assumed God exists and believe he speaks, talk and will reward him aftet life. All these are all made up. No God has been seen, heard or felt... how then can he reward u after life. This is the power of the mind.

I know God exists and if you do not know or are not sure then why do you say He does not exist based on this ignorance? Science cannot prove God to you but can infer this to those who examine the evidence sincerely. But for those who wish not to then they are indeed without excuse.

So if i have no prove of God i should accept ur statement that God exists without prove? If ur arguement was that God created only u, trust me, u will not get a single arguement from me.

Butterflyleo:


You brought in science and scientists here when you spoke about facts and facts and facts are defined as a statement that is consistent with reality or can be proven with evidence

Last time I checked, that is science for you. If you say scientists are not the authority to prove God then why are you asking for VERIFIABLE EVIDENCE for God. Or do you not even know what you are saying when you ask for such?

I nevet had science in mind but if u think what i said automatically means i was talking about science, u can still answer the question... is it the duty of scientists to prove to man or is it the duty of God to prove himself to man?

Again you bring in the word FACT. Yet you want me not to link this to science. God never left you to decide if he exists or not. He exists ...simple. You are the one who chose to disbelieve that despite the many NATURAL proof of his creation.

Are u saying his existence or not is inconsequential? If God never left me to decide what exactly did he do? Is it necessary to him or not if i believe he exists or not?
How can i choose not to believe if he has revealed himself to me? How did u come to that conclusion?

Its not the power of any mind but a harsh reality in every day life.

Why do u just like arguing for the sake of it? Power of the mind is one thing and harsh reality of life is another. Why are u arguing like we are comparing both? Cant the harsh reality of life make the mind act in a particular way?
What do u understand by the power of the mind?

Yet it is the duty of atheists to disprove the existence of God right and also to disprove that God created the world? Why did you take up the task if you felt there was really no need for that, going by your comment above? If you have no idea how the world was created then why do you go ahead and say God does not exist despite not being sure? Confused?

This is how u argue round and round without saying anything...
God has been heard... how?
God has been seen ... where?
God has been felt... how
I am telling u God does not exist because u who also does not know God exists is telling me he exists? Are u seriously unaware of this?
I am tellling u because i doubt ur assumptive statement which lacks evidence.

From my observation he is also waxing strong in your mind too for you to be always so desperate to disprove his existence even to yourself. Adds credence to God being hardwired into your DNA

Is this what makes ur God relevant? Because i argue that he does not exist? Is this how petty ur God is? Ur so call almigthy everything relies on my arguement to exist? What nonsense is this pls?

I am also talking to you an atheist to show the falsehood in your disbelief. Also the fact that you keep talking about a God you claim does not exist shows how subconsciously real he still is to you.

Of course i know why u are talking to me... it only amazes me why u think if i respond back with my argument, it means i believe he exists.. that sounds childish to me. But then... i am not surprised at ur thinking.

The above statement was made long ago and shows that your likes have been around long before now yet with nothing to show nor lack any ability to make God disappear.

Ok... it sha proves nothing

[/quote author=Butterflyleo post=67038588]

The existence of God is not a mind game and even scientists know this which is why several of them are still trying to rationalise existence outside God and also trying to understand all of nature (which they met and did not create) by pushing forward theories, hypothesis and such like it so as to give a physical explanation to God but have been largely unsuccessful.

Scientists know what? Is it the duty of scientists to discover God? Or is it the duty of God to reveal himself? Why bring in scientists here? Are scientists the authorities assigned to prove Gods existence?

There are no facts that exist against the concept of God because facts are based on empiricism which is simply scientific. And it is well known that science cannot prove or disprove God.

This is not about science, its about the fact that there is not single evidence of Gods existence... i am not talking about ur usual assumptions of the necessity of God because the world must have a creator. GOD should not leave us to decide if he exists or argue if he exists.... he should show us he exists.

That's not the power of the mind. That is actually a reality in all facets of life. We always get rewarded for everything we do be it good or bad. Reward is an unbreakable part of life.

Its the power of the mind but then... i agree with u.

You are born. Reward for this is death.
You die. Reward for this is life.
You work, Reward for this is wages
You are lazy. Reward for this is hunger
Etc.

Every damn thing comes with a reward.

Ya.. and thats how our mind got so much entangled with this unseen God idea

God speaks, God is seen, God is felt, God is loved and is love and loves. All the physical things needed to be done has been done and a majority of his creation attest to this. If I can give birth to a child who looks like me and talks like me and walks like me then its only common sense to know that something else brought me here. Creation resonates God and only the self deceivers would keep denying it such as you are doing.

God speaks? How
God is seen? Where
God is felt? How?
No creation attests to anything? If someone comes to tell u that everything on earth attest to the existence of a three headed spiritual monster will u accept?
If ur enstranged son who has never seen u is living in uk...we only conclude that he is born of a man because we know how humans come into the world... but seeing him without seeing his father cannot tell us the kind of person his father is neither can it tell us the way his father looks. He cant even go around talking about his father because he has never met him.
We have no idea how a world is created... we cannot conclude it is God that created this world because we don't even know if the duty of Gods is to create worlds.

Many who tried to disprove the existence of God have lived on this earth and died and have been long forgotten but God has waxed stronger. People who have embraced him have increased and will keep doing so. Man cannot let go of God entirely because he is hardwired into our DNA.

A God that waxes only in tge mind of those who believe in him is sure not the God that creates everyone. God is not wired in my dna.. perhaps he is not the one that created me.

When you say MAN you obviously mean you and the 7% world atheist population. The remaining 93% say you are a joker and a liar. If you say its not the duty of man to prove the existence of God then why have you been asking theists to prove the existence of God to you? God has already made his existence obvious and he did it with ease. However, the atheist 7% minority have been having an extremely hard time with making God disappear. So if I am to say who is finding things "too hard to do", its you the atheist minority for God has in such a simple manner proven himself.

I am asking theists only to show the falsehood of their believe. Also tge fact that i am asking theists instead of God really shows how unreal God is.

Romans 1:20

20 For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse

cc muttleylaff am I offtrack?

Who made the above statement? How does it prove anything

Geofavor:

Basically, above natural; not physical; of sth or a being that the laws of science do not apply to. E.g, demons.

Do u believe an 'above natural being' exist? If yes why do u believe? If u believe can u also say u know for certainty that a demon exist? What is the importance of this knowledge how does it change anything? What can we use this knowledge to achieve?
Do u think this beings have a hand in the progress man has made to better his living conditions? Hw does the presence of this beong affect the life of those who dont believe?

The believe in the existence of God is purly a mind game. It is one of the human psychological innovations that that makes man feel good about being here on earth.

This whole idea about God is not really about God, its about man himself. This is why some people will hold unto it no matter the facts against the idea.

Over the years man has been so comfortable with the God idea that he feels he can speak to it, kill for it and live for it... he has Gone ahead to even expect a reward from it.

Thats the power of the mind.

But where really is this God? Why does he not appear? Why does he not speak? Why does he not do some obvious physical things that can leave all his creation in a position of certainty?

Many have lived in this earth and died... life has gone from the stone age to the age of information but man has refused to let go of this idea...

Does God exist? This is not for man to prove... it is simply Gods duty to make his existence obvious to his creation. If this is a task too hard for God, then man can comfortably say GOD DOES NOT EXIST without having to apologize.

Butterflyleo:


You are beginning to drift.

Your OP says religious gods do not exist.
And I just showed you that they exist. If they are dead or not is inconsequential. They existed before and still exist in the minds of their followers as gods.

Religion is defined thus



And the list I gave you are worshipped and personal gods.

So they exist.

Lol... if @bold is what u have always meant by God is real.. then please accept my apologies for ever arguing tye ezistence of God with u. I never knewwe have always been on the same page on the existence of God.

Butterflyleo:


Even you know you are lying

Yahweh has caged you at home.

Ok

Butterflyleo:


Story story ........stooorrryy!



If this were true and not a fabrication it would not take you 2 days to say it.

Even you know you are lying

Lol... she is on my chest as i am chatting with u now... u no go go marry...

danvon:
This is precisely what I'm complaining about

you just felt like quoting me for quoting sake?

What did Jesus Believe in...edited by anonymous

Battling hypocrisy
Believe in God
Love your neighbor
Pure pacifism
Believe in Heaven
Believe in repentance

You believe Jesus is a great guy why don't you believe the things he believed

That's like a thief saying he loves the law but he wants to keep on stealing

There are so many great muslims that i dont believe in what theu believe in.

Actually i dont know if Jesus actually existed but stories about him shows he was a cool guy who wasnt a trouble maker. A lot of people are like that...

That will not make me believe he is God? Especially as i cant even confirm his existence

Butterflyleo:


Lmao yet you said you love your wife as a christian, atheist or pagan so how come you now lie that you have changed her to an atheist?

Are these not your words?



This was 6:57 am TODAY. So when did you change her?

The point i was only trying to make is thay religion has no role to play in my family... it is not even a point of discussion.

She was never a die hard christian and always has expressed her dissapointment with christians around her.
Right now i cant remember the last time she went ro church and we have so much to talk about whwn we are together that we hardly remember religion exists

Anas09:

Who happens to be a Christian like your wife.

Ur God does not exist... deal with it.

That my point in this forum.

danvon:


Being a Christian is all about emulating Jesus Christ

You believe your friend's grand father was a wonderful man won't you make him your role model and try your best to be like him?

Actually thats what being Christian is... but it also means no Christian exists

Butterflyleo:


Which Jesus do you want to face squarely? You have not even been able to face your Christian wife squarely and tell her what you think of Jesus and you are here forming superfrank

Can you face her?

I have changed my wife to a complete athiest...

Which one is can i face my wife? How dumb can u even get? Whats really ur point

hopefulLandlord:
Who is taking his sweet time to like each posts though? I have a feeling one or both are using alts to like their own posts

Lol... someone is actually having fun liking nonsense. Butterfly is actually dragging me to the mud... i am even tired of this nonsense.

Now i can face jesus squarely. He is actually the one who started this nonsense

Lol... this is serious

Butterflyleo:


Its rubbish now yeah? I asked valid logical questions while he went off to the left wing and In your usual hypocritical self you say we are both liable. I guess the mods disagreed with you because they banned his moniker and he had to resurface with another.

Guy leave that thing... we will get to the root of the problem of that foolish woman u call mother.

Leave the banning... i will accept and handle it.

Butterflyleo:


Have you been able to muster the boldness to tell your christian wife she is crazy?

She as a Christian has gotten you an atheist wrapped around her little finger

Do you often suggest to her to take drugs for her hallucinations?

Have u been able to help ir mum out of her craziness?

Butterflyleo:


Childish response.

I am still waiting for you to answer my rather detailed questions.

You will not deter my line of questioning if you like curse my own twin brother or father or best aunty

Sha answer my question.

Have ur mum taken her drugs? How are u dealing wth her craziness

Butterflyleo:


And yet secretly detest your wife when you call Christians insane and their God imaginary

Its either you are a sadist or you are a huge pretender inside and outside.

Awww.... when yahweh fails u u start talking rubbiaj. How have u helped ur mun in all hwr craziness

Butterflyleo:


Call me names all you want but you cannot beat my logical approach.

1) you are married to a christian wife

2) you are an atheist who comes on nairaland (a faceless forum) to bash Christians and their beliefs and call their God imaginary

3) so I asked you, do you also bash your wife at home for being a christian since you do so on nairaland against Christians

4) What do you do when she asks you to pray as the man of the house? Do you oblige her and pray to this same God whom you say is imaginary? When you do pray, how do you do it? You are an atheist remember?

5) how do you react when she prays? Or when she goes to church? Do you berate her as you do to Christians on nairaland?

6) Do you tell her to her face that her God is imaginary and that she is insane for worshipping an imagination?

In response you told me you cannot tell her because you do not want her to divorce you and that you really love her (You forget you hate Christians on nairaland so how can you in the same voice claim to love your CHRISTIAN wife)?

So I said, if you cannot confront or change your wife who is directly in your home and prays to God right in your face, what right have you got to attack Christians on nairaland?

This is called hypocrisy. You want to eat your cake and have it.

You want to ruin other people while maintaining your home in hypocrisy. Ruin your home first then you can be bold to ruin others. That is HONESTY.

How market na... is ur mum receiving her treatment?

I heard ur dad is a fraudster... ur family is alreafy ruined

Anas09:

But, don't you know that you are by extension discussing your wife who happens to be a Christian if you discuss other Christians? Your wife is my Sister and she is married to an enemy of the family.

Well, i am only interested in his sick mum

Anas09:

why can't you just answer his questions and get it done with?

I am not here ro discuss my wife.. he is veey atupid doe askinf me such question. His mum obviously instilled her craziness in him

Butterflyleo:


I couldn't care less about your wife. Your shameless hypocrisy is my problem.

I could care much about ur mum... afterall i hace ur full permission to insult her

Butterflyleo:


If your inability to get your wife in line is not my business then the beliefs of Christians here on nairaland should not be your business as well

You cannot eat your cake and have it

Well... my wife can freely become ur business while u mum becomes mine.. thats cool

Butterflyleo:


You already started

Please don't stop now

Ohh.. ok

Butterflyleo:


Ogbeni what belief nonsense are you talking about? Do atheist not say atheism is not a belief?

Stop doing what you cannot directly do to your Christian wife at home PERIOD.

keep doing it and I will keep talking.

I am teaching you how not to be a hypocrite.

What i do with my wife is not ur business... u are getting personal with me

Butterflyleo:


Have you told your wife her God does not exist? After all she and I both serve the same God

I am going to say this so you can see your hypocrisy. Do not attack Christians or their beliefs on nairaland if you cannot directly attack your wife and her beliefs since she is also a christian.

I can see u are itching to get ur mum thoroughly blasted... u will get what u want.

Butterflyleo:


Its called LOGICAL REASONING!

I can ask you questions based on you constant attacks on Christians by asking about how you handle your Christian wife at home? I wish to better understand you

I also wish to see how much of a dedicated atheist you are.

Do you deny this is a logical position to have?

I am not being personal with you. You are the one seeing it that way.

Challenging my beliefs is not my problem. However, do you also challenge your wife's beliefs since she is also a christian

How do i constantly attack christians? Do u know how many christians challenge me every day? So i know how many people that call me out and question my belief everyday? So i call it attack?

I now question ur belief and u say i attack u? How do i attack. I express my unbelief and u say i attack u? Do u reason at all?