₦airaland Forum

redsun:
Over six million white british adults can't write or speak what you call queens english,yet they are not crying,meanwhile people that english is their second language seems to bother more.English language is an international communication tool,because they made it so,it is about superiority, it is about attraction,it is about indoctrination,it is about loosing the fundamentals,when you loose your language,all you need is to understand the the basics of the language and relate in the game of survival,Language evolve and changes with time,it could be chinese or swahili tomorrow,like it has been egyptian,latin,greek,roman,name it.What is your own language that people will like to emulate?

Look at this, you can't even make the distinction between "loose" and "lose". You see? It's just sad.

And nobody said a WORD about the "Queen's English." There's a standard in English that the UK, America, Austrailia and other developed Anglophone countries use.

As I said, if English is to continue as the official language of Nigeria, it is a shame that her citizens cannot manage to speak and write the language clearly and intelligently.

Throughout this thread people make excuses for pidgin and grasp at straws that "it's our language." No, it's not. It's a watered-down version of a European language, probably started by some illiterates who couldn't grasp English properly. The true Nigerian languages are Igbo, Yoruba, Hausa etc. Not that pidgin crap. It's a farce.

naijaking1:
Importance of a standard grammatically correct English cannot be overemphasized in formal settings, but the role of pidgin as naija quasi lingua franca also deserves a special mention.

Thank God for pidgin; the Yoruba can talk to Igbo, to Hausa, Tiv, Ijaw, Fulani, Igbira, Ibibio, and vice versa. Until we evolve a national language, I beg make una leave pidgin alone-o-o-o.

But English can serve as the lingua franca, which was the whole point of installing it as the official language. Just as it connects the Nigerian, to the Ghanaian, the Gambian, the Zimbabwean, the South African and so on and on.

Pidgin was born out of illiteracy, miscommunication and uneducation. Now Naija wants to put that on a pedestal and beats its chest? Shame.

Game over:
in as much as i will agree that English is In a terrible state in ( the just concluded GUS 4 testifies to that) i will also like to add that it (English) suffers a worse fate in China, Japan and even some European countries; Sweden , Macedonia, even Germany and France. Most of these nationals can not even write their name in English.[/QUOTE]
Big difference here. English is the official language of Nigeria. It is NOT the official language of Germany, France, China, Japan or Sweden. So really, if they even can speak English, that's a testament to their desire to learn.

Nigerians however are taught English in school from the beginning and their laws are in English.
[QUOTE]
for me I still believe Pigin English is very intresting, if we become proud of it we can even make it an international language afterall it is not worse than Jamaican version of the English (Jah raster fara. respet muan)
I will also disagree with those who say that pigin affects our English speaking ability negative; people like RMD speak good English, or at least not too bad English, but if u see where this bobo dey blow grama for country man language you go fear naa.

so its just a matter of knowing the distinction

The problem is, MANY people cannot make that distinction and the pidgin spills over into the regular English. And even though Jamaicans have their Patois, they still haven't replaced English as the country's official language. You don't hear Americans talking about spreading Ebonics and making it an international language. What nonsense.

Lord have mercy. This is why Naija won't go forward.

People clap and hoot when someone says "Why you no go gree" and actually consider it to be a cultural accomplishment. So sad, so tragic.

What on earth? You're not even fat.

Just do some light exercise and slow down on the fufu.

Patience Ozokwor doesn't have a site?

I too think it's sad.

I think pidgin is terrible, but some people seem to love it.

What is pile?

But dr chic, did you not see the study I posted that said that circumcised women are less likely than uncircumcised women to get HIV? Isn't that a "benefit"?

Also, to be fair, female circumcision has not been investigated and studied all that much to determine any advantages. And we also need to remember there are several different types of female circumcision. I don't think anyone can argue that infibulation has any advantages, but removal of the female prepuce and labia could.

What blame did I shift from the Europeans?

It's true that those lands were conquered and colonized by the Romans. It is also true that the cultures and languages that existed pre-Roman occupation were lost forever.

I pointed it out to show that even if cultures and languages from the past are lost, it doesn't mean that the people themselves cannot adopt a new one and move forward.

If Nigerians today, stood together and decided "We want Yoruba to be our official language" then that would be the end of it. But we all know that wouldn't happen because there are too many ethnic groups who would feel insulted and inferior if such a proclamation were to be made.

PTH:
Mother tongue does not "exist" in most african "countries" for the simple reasons that those countries themselves do not exist. We are simply living in unviable contraptions bequeathed to us by Europeans who themselves understand the power in a homogenous society.

This is true as well.

So what do you suggest? Should countries be redrawn according to ethnic groups? (My, the countries would begin to be very small)

And Europeans may understand the power in a homogenous society, but many of the various ethnic groups in Europe had to assimilate and sacrifice their sub-cultures and sub-languages in order to do so. For example, in Italy shortly after unification, the country set about standardizing Italian, and they chose a dialect of Italian from Tuscany. Today that dialect is the standard and although other dialects exists, the "mother tongue" of the country is Italian.

And it's important to remember, that even though the French, Spanish, and Portuguese have their own languages, they are all born out of the conquest and colonization of their lands by the Romans, who imposed Latin as the language of their empire. The languages that existed pre-Roman civilization have been lost forever.

Octupus:
Fufu King,
Please before I sign out,could u teach me step by step,how to cut portions of other people's contribution and paste them in a boxed form in your own discussion.Like u did for ThiefOf Hearts.

I will surely appreciate this favour.

Many thanks

No problem.

When you hit reply, scroll down and look at the topic summary. Look at the message you want to quote, and then look to the right and click on the "Insert Quote" link.

Then it will insert the quote for you.

Or, if you want to do it manually, just use the code [QU*OTE] [/QU*OTE] (Without the asteriks)

You put the original posters message in between the two codes like this

[QU*OTE] Your mother sells coconuts on the street [/QU*OTE]

PTH:
Let us not belabour the issue. We have over 50 languages in Nigeria alone but by sheer size Yoruba, Igbo and Hausa are our primary languages which is why English was adopted as the lingua franca to avoid the problem of federal character.

Come to think of it, is it any coincidence that ALL the worlds most powerful and most developed nations have only ONE language including the most stable nations of africa?

But talking about the multitude of languages is absolutely part of the problem! It cannot be ignored.

We cannot talk about Nigeria or most African countries having a "mother tongue" because that DOESN'T exist. Ethnic groups have mother tongues, but not the majority of the countries. The Hausa cannot understand Yoruba and the Igbo cannot understand Yoruba.

Igbo, Hausa, and Yoruba are the largest groups in Nigeria, but what makes you think that the other ethnic groups consider those languages to be their "mother tongue"? It is precisely because of this conflict that many African nations chose to keep the European language as the official language.

It allowed no one ethnic group to claim superority over the rest.

[QUOTE]Only colonial backward thinking African nations adopted foreign languages as lingua franca to the detriment of our mother tongue. English is not the major language of the Spanish, Germans, Russians, Chinese, Japanese, Dutch. [/QUOTE]

PTH, what exactly is the mother tongue of Nigeria?

Last time I checked, there are more than 50 languages in Nigeria alone.

The Germans, Russians, Japanese and Dutch have ONE language. There aren't any African countries with one language, except the northern African countries that exclusively speak Arabic.

[quote author=pilgrim.1 link=topic=1483.msg1437528#msg1437528 date=1188244876]I'm not so sure if this inference holds solid grounds.

Take, for instance, the situation with Spain. Actually, Spain speaks more languages than ONE! The most widely recognized language may be Spanish; but there are also other languages such as Euskera (spoken in the northern central area), Castilian (which we know as 'Spanish' and is the official language), Catalan (spoken in some areas of Aragon and Murcia, and is mother-tongue to about 6 million people), and Galician.

The point is not whether Nigeria speaks many languages or not. Rather, it's about promoting our own indigenous languages. This may be difficult if there are no strong enough reasons to do so. But I doubt if anyone would applaud the extinction of their own language.[/quote]Ah, you're correct on Spain. I forgot about their situation.

But what about other European countries like England, Portugal, France, and Italy. These other countries don't have the multilingual issues. Well, the UK has Scottish, but even then almost all Scots HAVE to be fluent in English in order to function in the UK society, so they end up being bilingual anyway.

The same is true of Spain. Even though you have those other languages, such as Galician, Catalan and Euskara, EVERYONE in the whole country can speak Castillian. And they can speak it as a mother tongue.

ThiefOfHearts:
No, I'm not.

teach me sah.

Well, you're acting as if you don't know.

LOL where can I hear it? I'm not in Naija.

ThiefOfHearts:
still talking about males in a thread about femle circumcision.

If you boys have/had a problem with yours, why don't you start a crusade or help line like the others?

Are you unfamiliar with comparison as a technique of argument and persuasion?

Because that is why male circumcision is being brought up.

We are saying if it is okay to cut males, why is it not okay to cut females? That is a valid technique of making an argument.

Are you unfamiliar with comparision?

champredd:
Research have shown that circumcision can reduce HIV prevalence among males.

I also posted a study that showed a lower incidence of HIV in circumcised females.

Should we advocate that ladies go under the knife for this so-called benefit? If the answer is no, then it's not a valid reason for cutting boys.

champredd:
Circumcisions done after birth is more safer than when the boy is older, so South Africans should stop that kind of culture, or better still, it should be done in a hospital and by a registered practitioner. It's not only South Africans, some West Africans also do the same.

This is false.

Circumcisions done at any age are risky.

In a hospital setting, I'd argue that they're safer when the boy is older. An older boy will get anesthesia and pain medicine. Many infants get nothing more than a rag soaked in a sugar solution. Also, as an infant, the baby is in a diaper and he urinates and defecates on an OPEN WOUND, which often leads to meatal stenosis, because the foreskin isn't there to protect the glans.

Also read the links I posted, most of the boys who died were babies and the boy who had the head of his penis chopped off was a baby.

And even when done by medical practicioners, things go wrong and complications occur! All of the stories I posted, except the South African one, were circumcisions done by experienced doctors.

Seun:
Personally, I think men should be allowed to make the decision to be circumcised or not.
But it's hard to convince parents not to do it because the bible makes it seem compulsory.
So it's a battle I'd rather not fight since I'm yet to hear of one case that ended badly.

The best way to settle this issue is to ask a qualified medical doctor to circumcise your baby.
If it's a boy, he will do it. If it's a girl, he will definitely now do it because he knows it's wrong.

Well, good. At least your arguments are consistent. That's good.

As for never hearing of circumcisions gone bad, allow me to expand your horizons:

-Glans of baby boy's penis amputated
http://www.wbbm780.com/pages/695147.php?contentType=4&contentId=700283

-Canadian baby dies after complications from circumcision
http://www.canada.com/cityguides/ottawa/story.html?id=cb3b8281-4134-46ba-85d3-b076072bda75&k=25810

-Pakistani baby dies during circumcision
http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=2007%5C07%5C02%5Cstory_2-7-2007_pg11_7

-South African boy found dead after botched circumcision
http://www.sabcnews.com/south_africa/crime1justice/0,2172,151431,00.html

And I'd like to point out, that much like female circumcision, many cases of injury and death related to circumcision go unreported.

Patience had a music career?!


LOL! Na wa o!

Anyone know what Patience's latest projects are?

Seun:
Some things (like murder, pedophilia, and genital mutilation) cannot be discussed 'rationally'.
If someone is pointing a gun at your baby, how do you discuss it 'rationally'?

Just because your privates have been destroyed, you want to share the pain with others.
Bring your vagina and let me cut it for you. Nonsense. Let me mutilate you 'rationally'.

On a more rational note: when the girls grow up, let them decide on whether they want it.

So am I to presume that you are against circumcising infant baby boys?

That's the double-standard that Octopus and I are talking about. To denounce the practice of female circumcision and its harmful effects and the lack of consent of the girl, only to turn around and circumcise your 7-day-old son is hypocritical. If you are anti-female circumcision because it can result in disfiguration and is done without the child's permission, that same protection should be afforded to little boys.

Let men and women both decide when they are older if they want to be circumcised.

Octupus:
dr chic,
What about the facts pointing out the MALE genital cutting as harmful? Are they not clear enough for you to advocate its ban? Logic demands that since both practices can be harmful,the campaign should be all encompassing and not preferential.That's the point,my dear.Its shear hypocrisy to campaign against one and leave the other.

Secondly,what do you think is the incidence of complications in FGC in Nigeria? I tell you it is less than one in a hundred.That is,for every complicated case,there would have been 99 others done complication free.

Octupus,

They don't want to go down this argument because they know that the evidence is not in their favor.

They also want to ignore the fact that there are many circumcised women who LIKE being circumcised and are happy to have been. Much like many circumcised men say the same thing. But they are only interested in launching personal insults against you, rather than intellectually and truly debating the topic.

Africa is difficult because of the numerous ethnic languages. People keep comparing the French, the Spanish and the German but the situation is not analogical because those countries have ONE language. If Nigeria, or any other African country, had one language, there would be no debate.

Also, to the Belgian posting, multilingual countries have their own issues as well. How can a country unite when not all of its citizens can communicate with one another? What does it mean to be Belgian, if Belgians cannot all communicate with each other? The national anthem, the constitution and laws have to be in three languages. That sucks. And Canada is facing that issue right now, with the French-speaking provinces wanting independence because they feel like outsiders in the majority English-speaking Canadian government.

I think there are two solutions, either continue with English as the main and official language of Nigeria, or adopt an African tongue, standardize it, and make that the primary and official language. I'm thinking of Swahili for example. It makes no sense to have 20 different official or national languages.

Now that's not to say that I don't think people should not speak their ethnic languages, but there needs to be one language everyone understands. Oh, and I think Nigerians should stop speaking pidgin! It's terrible! It really worsens some people's ability to learn standard English.

EEiiii!

Patience! That's my girl.

She kills it in almost all her movies.

https://nm.onlinenigeria.com/articlefiles/7240-patience.jpg

Can someone tell me what the latest and greatest Patience movies are? What has she been up to lately?

Thanks for posting the article.

BABEELOVE:
Present sir!!! No one lak Mama "Gee" in Nollywood!

"Fishers of Men" was a Killer!!!!

My all time favorite "Love After Love" starring Patience Ozokwor and Justus Esiri!

I haven't seen those flicks! Are they old? I'll definitely have to check them out.

Um, I don't understand the anger?

Nigeria is NO picnic basket.

They didn't DISS the Nigerian people themselves. They said that the country wasn't in a good state.

Hmm, what's that old proverb, a hit dog will yell. I guess they hit the spot!

You guys should not diss the French colonies just because they speak French.

Ghana is not SO great, trust me. Plenty of people graduate from school and they have no jobs waiting for them. People are dying to get out of Ghana all the time.

You compare Ghana to Ivory Coast, but what about Senegal? Senegal is a French-speaking country and they are doing quite well for themselves.

Anglophone countries don't get into a pissing match of trying to consider yourselves "more African". And don't tell me that Anglophone African countries "hate" their colonized past, when I see Naija women running to buy bleaching cream and put blonde wigs on their heads.