₦airaland Forum

dare2think:
According to God's PR Man,Mr Chris;

', its got nothing to do with God, Its all about you and your Body'

According to Mr Chris' PR man,  Mr Jo.

'It is an unclean habit . But it is not a sin against God.'

The confusion in these statements is beyond any manner of expression.

diluminati:
Please dont run away. christian visitors are depending on you to explain why it is not a sin from the bible view point. or do you want them to listen to me? do you want me to lead them astray?
its just a simple Q&A session. i wont be rude and all my questions will be very polite, if you just humble yourself. ok?

Only what you do and has a bad effect or is harmful to your body or others is bad. Is mastur.bation harmful to the body or others? NO! So how can it be a sin?

@Mabel had already started a thread with this exact question and we addressed and rested the issue, so why bring it up again?

Anyway just so u know, in those days only male children were named as heirs so there is hardly any mention of female children. Go and read Genesis chapters 4, 9 & 10, only the male children were mentioned laving out the female children.
So even though the Bible only made mention of Cain and Abel (even though Gen 4:25 states that Adam and Eve had another child after Cain was banished whose name was Seth), there could have been - and must have been - other female children born to Adam and Eve but there was no mention of them due to my earlier explanation.

So this puts this question to rest - permanently!

Ogboraph:
[b]
@FXKING in as much as i do scalping most time i always remember my trading plan as a trend follower i follow the trend on 1HR & 15Min

I, on the hand, go against the trend on 5mins and 15mins based on psychological barrier.
In my many years of trading, one thing I've come to understand is that there are many good trading systems out there but the real problem is in being disciplined enough not to deviate from the strategy.
I dont scalp though, itz too much of a gamble for me.

@dare2think, I understand your point of view and you have a very strong reason to be skeptical. But I must say that it is not possible for the churche to meet the need of all the poor people in our society, even no govt in the world with all its vast resources can meet the needs of all the poor people in its territory. Even the Bible says the poor we will always have amongst us.

I am not ignorant of the fact that so many big churches have been reaching out to the poor in some ways. I can tell you of Synagogue and Harvesters International Christian Church (HICC) which allocate a certain amount of their funds to feeding the poor every week. This happens every single week.
I'm sure many other churches do this even if we are unaware of it. So it may not be right to condemn all these churches without having the full facts with us.

I may be tempted to sell eur/usd at 1.3300 area cos that area poses a very strong psychological barrier. I just love this market!

I've closed my buy eur/usd with 55pips profit and I'm done for today.
Over-trading is always the nemesis of the forex trader so I avoid it like a plague. Remember to be stingy with your profit; avoid losing it to the market.

Wish u all still in the market the best.

Ogboraph:
ALERT ALERT ALERT BUT GBPUSD NOW buy NOW @1.5866 for 80 pips profit FXKing what do you see on this? GBPUSD

I've noticed a rather disturbing trend in your trade set-up. You dont use SL and truthfully I find this very very disturbing. Why is this so if I may ask?

Sorry I no dey see GBPUSD, my relationship is only with eur/usd. I'm the very faithful type so I stay loyal to my partner as long as my partner is very faithful to me. EUR/USD has proven to be more than faithful to me, so I stay faithful to it (lol).

Ogboraph:
i told you guys that am taking the bulls by the Horns

It's always a pity when one tells these guys the message given me by the pair and still they do otherwise. Congrats bro, chop knuckle. We suppose pop Champagne together one of these days.

991:
@FXking2012
An organization that has CEO, secretary, commander in chief, board of trustee, treasurer, sub-committees, hundreds of paid worker, security men, legal representatives/solicitors, branches nationwide, thousands of plots nationwide, billboards on roads and streets, regular advert on state and national televisions, etc,  ohh common they should be taxed,

How did Jesus pay tax? He sent Peter, who happened to be a fisherman by profession, to go to the river, cast his net and open the mouth of the first fish that is caught. Now this tells me that the business was taxed, not the ministry.
Remember the ministry had money of it's own which was under the care of Judas Iscariot (which the Bible records that Judas usually steals from), yet Jesus did not dip His hand into it to pay the tax, instead He sent Peter who was a professional fisherman to use his fishing boat and fishing tools to fish and get the money for the tax.

So churches should not be taxed, only their businesses should be taxed.

Ogboraph:
and that was why i bought IMM because i know you are right FXman see money with 2.00lots on 200 leverage

Welcome and thank you!

Ogboraph:
i will be taking first profit @1.3238 and wait for it to drop and buy again

I'm thinking of going for 100pips profit.

methodman:
@ Odiaero,   We are almost there, BEARS all the way,

odiaero:
Who said buy when am on sell with heavy lots now?, see pips, ready to scalp jor

Sorry bro, wish u had listened.

dare2think:
Thanks for your reply,

Judging by your previous posts, I believe you are against any form of Tithing, it seems you agree that Christians are required to pay tithes.

But most of these, men you ascribe to be MOGs collect tithes in their churches.

How do you relate both then?

Yes I blv tithing does not apply to us today but there are also hundreds of millions (if not billions) of Christians out there who blv in tithing. People are not forced to pay tithes, it's a decision u make based on your believe.
A pastor who preaches tithing is not necessarily bad cos it is in the old testament and some people blv the old testament still applies to us.

FXKing2012:
Buy eur/usd now at 1.3210 with SL at 1.3160

When I say buy eur/usd, you buy with no questions asked. Not that the pair listens to me; I'm only a messenger out to deliver the message given me by the pair.

nomorename:
Yes, like other businesses.

goshen360:
Without mincing word, CAPITAL YES!

LeoMax:
Unequivocal Yes

buJu-234:
not only tax; but they should b force to have Pension fund for the full time staff,

because at the end of the day; the G.O will tell the other pastor under him that they are working for God
and should expect reward 4rm God; meanwhile he has built a business empire for his children`s children,

ogogoromaster:
I have seriously advocated that all religious body pay tax.

With the incessant proliferation of religious bodies in Nigeria,I think there should even be a regulatory body.

991:
these guys hide under the umbrella of religion and extort cash from their followers , they collect offerings, special offerings, tithe, vows. if you invite a MOG you have to pay into his account and lodge him in a nice hotel. at police check-point they go free  without searching their cars, they have unquestioned access to peoples wives in the name of special prayers. am not jealous of them but to say the truth these guys should be paying all due taxes in accordance with the law.

But a religious organisation is not a business. Do NGOs pay tax? The money raised by religious organisations are by way of gifts, do u then say all gifts collected should be taxed?

I say any religious organisation that owns a business should have the business taxed, but not the religious organization itself cos any money the organisation receives is only by way of gifts and u cant tax gifts.

dare2think:
fXking2012,

I humbly bring myself to you and I'm confused about something I noticed.

Pls, Do you believe these men are MOG within your heart?

There is a reason why I asked, I'll tell you in your response.

Thanks.

It depends on how u choose to judge them but deep within me I'm absolutely certain many of them are in deed MOG. Now that is not to say we dont have false prophets out there, even the Bible made it clear that there are false prophets.

stagger:
You are very silly for that statement you made. HIGHLY silly!

And having said that, I would advocate churches pay tax on revenue sources to support the maintenance of amenities that are used such as roads.

But then, how many of the tax advocates here pay tax, especially the drunken ogogoro man who made that silly post above?

You must be the silly thing high on ogogoro. You came here to talk thrash when u have absolutely no point to make. You are obviously incapable of an intellectual discourse and u know it, so pls just shut it stupid!

PA1982:
The poster who wrote that must be blinded by their brainwashing.
Doesn't the poster see the significance of the BBC link's content?
Very sad.

You have a way of picking arguments that suit you and leave out the ones you know you cant win. I will put it to your face again and I challenge you to debunk these claims:

Let me make this very clear to you, all conflicts involving Christians have clear-cut political agendas so u cant even call such religious conflicts; they are more of civil wars or military uprisings. I can mention the likes of IRA in Ireland, ETA in Spain, etc
Unfortunately such cant be said of Muslim conflicts where a Sunni man may just wake up, wear his suicide bomb suite and go to a market to blow up Shiite Muslims (mostly women and children) for no reason at all.

1) Christians in Egypt, Iran, Pakistan are persecuted and killed all the time yet you dont hear of the Christians taking up arms to fight the Muslim-led governments;

2) Muslims in northern Nigeria have been killing Christians but u dont hear of reprisal attacks by Christians in the south;

3) More Muslims have been killed by fellow Muslims than the entire Muslims killed by the US: the Taliban have killed thousands of fellow Muslims in Afghanistan, Sunni Muslims have killed countless number of Shiite Muslims in Iraq and Pakistan;

4) Muslims in Christian majority countries go about their daily activities without any fear of harassment, however this is not the case with Christians living in Muslim majority countries such as Iran and Egypt.

5) If you convert to another religion in a Muslim country you are bound to be killed or jailed (this is common in Iran and Saudi Arabia); if you convert from Christianity to any other religion, the only harassment you'll get will be from your family;

6) Out of 24 religion-related conflicts that happened recently posted by Olasesi (a strong Muslim himself), only 4 involved Christians while 20 involved Muslims fighting with members of other religions/govts.

I'm not saying Christians have not had issues in the past (such as the Spanish Inquisition) but these happened a very long time ago, you dont hear of such things anymore. Civilization has changed all that.

And yes, any scientific endeavor that promotes evolution or the existence of extraterrestrial life is an attempt to disprove the existence of God. And again you can only decipher this only if you are able to see the big picture and not just their hypothesis, theories and conclusions. Question is are u capable of seeing the big picture?

dekung:
Ooook! Oyedepo's God waited until winners was bombed before he asked him to make a pronouncement, Oyaks God is also waiting, very soon he to will be asked to make his own. How laughable. Their God had to wait for hundreds of people to be killed before he wakes up to inform His men to curse. Maybe your God needed to see people die first. He is probably a blood thirsty God as have been expressly described in the bible. That means there is a collabo btw your God and BHs God

Still basking in ignorance and full of blasphemous language.

It seems LagosShia and Olasesi have gone mute. I dont blame them though, you go mute when u know you've been knocked out and have absolutely no way of debunking glaring facts.

dekung:
Why am I not surprised that you would say that there were no casualties. And why has your Jerry curled pastor Chris not said anything about Boko Haram or are the people being killed not human beings? Oh ok, I know why, they haven't attacked his business centre. Now that they have sent a message to him, maybe he would make his own mindless empty pronouncement. You claimed pastor chris' pronouncement would mark the end of the sect, does that mean Oyedepo's is not potent enough such that it took several months and the help of police, army and SSS to make it work? Lets see what would unfold in few days time, maybe pastor Oyakiole would shout or he would pretend that he is waiting for them to repent.

What you dont understand is that pastors are led by God before making pronouncements, they dont just wake up and make pronouncements as led by their flesh or human sense cos such pronouncements will amount to nothing.
But of course I dont expect you to understand this cos u are a man of the flesh who only respond to your sensory stimuli, you have absolutely no understanding of spiritual things.
You expect a MOG to rise up and make pronouncements anytime there is a social ill, is that how our Lord Jesus was making pronouncements at every social ill in those days? You have to be led to make such - stop basking in ignorance.

Does that those who believe church tax tithe is required should keep paying it while those who think otherwise should follow their thoughts?

diluminati:
fxking still spewing trash as usual.

diluminati still spewing nothing as usual.

I'm noticing a rather disturbing trend here: people are so eager and quick to attack churches on this issue of tax, what about mosques and temples? Why is no one attacking them?
This shows people are not objective in their analysis and thoughts, they are just out to spew so much hate on churches and MOG.

donedy:
Not only should they pay tax, they should also pay tax on the remaining revenue that is left . What kind of nonsense is this? Infact, they should be made to donate 60 percent of their revenue after taxation to charities

Why are u spewing hate? Even corporate organisations that are out for the sole purpose of making profit are not made to donate 60% of their revenue after taxation to charities as suggested by you.

Buy eur/usd now at 1.3210 with SL at 1.3160

dekung:
www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-874533.0.html
FXKing, the above link is for you. Boko Haram hit Suleja again today, attacking another charlatan organisation, Christ Embassy church. Now is the curse still working? You know you make me laugh everytime you post a reply.

And are u aware there were no fatalities? Do u even know why?

If pastor Chris Oyakhilome should put forth a word against BH, that will definitely mark the immediate end of the organization. Those guys made a huge mistake bombing Christ Embassy and I'm sure by now they've realized it when nobody died in the church.

dekung:
FXKing,
Do you know why myself and a lot of other people are attacking you? Its because you, like every other apologist, have a superstitious mindset. As a result, everything that happens to BH is because your lying cowardly Bishop prayed (Notice I don't fail to say something negative about him, it because am waiting for his god to unleash his wrath on me like you people have been warning and till date nothing has happened). This is what rational thinking is all about, not some dillusional thinking that some daddy in the sky is responding to cries and has come to deliver. According to your bible, when men tried to build the tower of Babel, God came down to confuse their Language, was He on vacation when men built Burjh Khalifa and Has He relocated to Galaxy Andromeda since the Hubble Telescope was launched.

Cant even reply directly to your post cos it's full of blasphemies against my God - so pathetic,

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/us-supports-idea-imf-loan-greece-geithner-215849222.html

This may signal for strength for the eur

Ogboraph:
 ohhh wat is this? there has been a big jump up on EURUSD EURJPY UP UP we go am happy all those who sold am sorry

It is never advisable to leave trades over the weekend cos doing so only amounts to gambling. Anything can happen over the weekend which may change the complexion of the entire thing.
This does not apply to mid-term and long term traders though.

Eur/usd is currently at 1.3200

diluminati:
Go through this classic https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-166499.0.html, then come back and rephrase your question. ok?

I've gone thru it and I consider the poster to be an extremist with the singular purpose of giving our MOG bad names. Not all rich pastors are there for the money, many of them started with the aim of saving souls or becos they were called but with the job comes the money.
I am not for one moment in support of pastors who live in opulence while church members live in abject poverty, but at the same time I will never condemn them cos it's not for me to judge them.
It is only God who sees the heart of men and He alone can judge.

@PA1982, you wrote so many things yet made no point. You were so busy trying to discredit my points and yet u failed woefully.

Let me make this very clear to you, all conflicts involving Christians have clear-cut political agendas so u cant even call such religious conflicts; they are more of civil wars or military uprisings. I can mention the likes of IRA in Ireland, ETA in Spain, etc
Unfortunately such cant be said of Muslim conflicts where a Sunni man may just wake up and decide to go to a market to blow up Shiite Muslims for no reason at all.

Before supporting the Muslims read this:

1) Christians in Egypt, Iran, Pakistan are persecuted and killed all the time yet you dont hear of the Christians taking up arms to fight the Muslim-led governments;

2) Muslims in northern Nigeria have been killing Christians but u dont hear of reprisal attacks by Christians in the south;

3) More Muslims have been killed by fellow Muslims than the entire Muslims killed by the US: the Taliban have killed thousands of fellow Muslims in Afghanistan, Sunni Muslims have killed countless number of Shiite Muslims in Iraq and Pakistan;

4) Muslims in Christian majority countries go about their daily activities without any fear of harassment, however this is not the case with Christians living in Muslim majority countries such as Iran and Egypt.

5) If you convert to another religion in a Muslim country you are bound to be killed or jailed (this is common in Iran and Saudi Arabia); if you convert from Christianity to any other religion, the only harassment you'll get will be from your family;

6) Out of 24 religion-related conflicts that happened recently posted by Olasesi (a strong Muslim himself), only 4 involved Christians while 20 involved Muslims fighting with members of other religions/govts.

I'm not saying Christians have not had issues in the past (such as the Spanish Inquisition) but these happened a very long time ago, you dont hear of such things anymore. Civilization has changed all that.

Your BBC link talks about BH storming a prison to release prisoners. But are u aware that most of those prisoners have been recaptured? Or u chose to ignore that.

And yes, any scientific endeavor that promotes evolution or the existence of extraterrestrial life is an attempt to disprove the existence of God. And again you can only decipher this only if you are able to see the big picture and not just their hypothesis, theories and conclusions. Question is are u capable of seeing the big picture?

olasesi:
but not all muslims are suicide bombers,
and it is worth knowing that the first suicide act were not carried out by muslims
read below,


Judges 16: 28

28 Then Samson prayed to the LORD, "O Sovereign LORD, remember me. O God, please strengthen me just once more, and let me with one blow get revenge on the Philistines for my two eyes."

Judges 16:29-30

29 Then Samson reached toward the two central pillars on which the temple stood. Bracing himself against them, his right hand on the one and his left hand on the other, 30 Samson said, "Let me DIE with the Philistines!" Then he pushed with all his might, and down came the temple on the rulers and all the people in it. Thus he KILLED many more when he died than while he lived.

and dont u dare say that it was taken out of context or that i need the holy spirit to understand this ENGLISH words.


The first recorded suicide bombing came from Christian soldiers during the Crusades to free The Holy City of Jerusalem from the control of Muslim armies.During the Crusades, the Knights Templar destroyed one of their own ships with 140 Christians on board in order to kill 10 times as many Muslims in the opposing fleet.

try google to confirm,

so u see, not all suicide bombers are muslims,
it is worth noting that clashes like these fall into two categories
**Riots,** where casualties are present on both parties,  at least that's why it is called RIOT or CLASHES
e.g the jos monthly crisis some of which are even ethnic, and in cases like these, only the very unreasonable will say MUSLIMS always start the riots FIRST
then the second is the
**suicide bombings**
the bombers av been muslims and it only recently started in nigeria.
i know that doesnt prove anything,
but i hate the above statement of the OP that says " Muslims have been fighting with Christians in Nigeria,"
BOKO HARAM has been killing nigerians(muslims and non-muslims) b4 the madalla bombing and they av also continued after it.
so the only onslaught on xtians by muslim xtremists was the xmas day bombing, the rest were riots( I KILL U, U KILL YOUR OWN BACK)
   
the cases av majorly been riots and clashes and once again only the shallow minded will say MUSLIMS start it FIRST.
it is also quite surprising to know that more than 90% of the 94 million population are Christians and 5%-10% are muslims
so do the maths and see if it can be said that MUSLIMS are always the OPPRESSORS  or TROUBLEMAKERS in philippines


below is an excerpt from wikipedia

Some of the most violent events in recent times took place during the Gujarat riots in 2002, where it is estimated one thousand people were killed, most allegedly Muslim. Some sources claim there were approximately 2,000 Muslim deaths.[94] There were also allegations made of state involvement.[95][96] The riots were in retaliation to the Godhra Train Burning in which 50 Hindus pilgrims returning from the disputed site of the Babri Mosque, were burnt alive in a train fire at the Godhra railway station. Gujarat police claimed that the incident was a planned act carried out by extremist Muslims in the region against the Hindu pilgrims. The Bannerjee commission appointed to investigate this finding declared that the fire was an accident.[97] In 2006 the High Court decided the constitution of such a committee was illegal as another inquiry headed by Justice Nanavati Shah was still investigating the matter.[98]

enter "islam in india" into wikipedia to read more
clashes like these are cant be non-existent in regions where we av considerable number of people with different faiths, so it only shows how most bias the OP was in accusing that non except muslims av always been involved.
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the first on that list was a war btw xtians and buddhists,


it's not one of its tenets.
if it trully is,i bet u
not most of us will be left behind.
all other muslims will join in the fight.

Thank you very much for your input, but allow me to dissect your point of view.

First you talked about acts of terrorism commited in the Bible then u mentioned Samson. Let me ask you, was Samson a Christian? It's so amusing when non-Christians make reference to the Bible as if they understand the contents.
Samson was not a Christian, he was not even a man of God in the Bible. Samson was only a man who was born with a special gift which he misused several times. Are u aware Samson slept with LovePeddlers (strange women)? He was a very wayward kid growing up. He had a gift which he misused and it led to his demise.
Think of it this way: a man born with the gift of running, this man can run so fast that no man alive can even compete with him. Now does the fact that he has this special gift of running make him a man of God? Yes, it's a gift from God but it does not mean the person is a man of God or is serving God faithfully. And if such a gift is misused can even lead to the person's destruction (as was the case with Samson).

You said the first suicide bombers were Christians by mentioning the Knight Templars. I find this really funny cos u obviously dont know your history. The Knights Templars were not Christians, it was a cult. And that is why they were fought and destroyed by the Catholic church. The order to hang their leader came from the Pope as well as king of France at the time, and others were jailed. They were never Christians but a secret society.
Pls go back to your history book to know who the Knight Templars really were.

In your post about all the recent religious conflicts, did you notice that only 4 had the involvement of Christians while 20 involved Muslims fighting with members of other religions. Can u explain why this is so?
Can u explain why Muslims find it hard to live peaceably with others and why they are always involved in the "riots"?

@LagosShia, first I would like to to thank you for taking time to tackle every point made in the post without using abusive language. I respect that.

Now regarding your post, I would like to say that it was quite defensive. You were simply out to defend the violent actions of Muslims by either claiming they are not real Muslims or they are being sponsored by the west. It's like me coming out to say all the crimes committed by Christians during the Spanish Inquisition were committed by people who only claimed to be Christians, but that they were not real Christians. Who would I be deceiving by making such a comment - myself!

Again I will make my points very clear and pls dont even tell me the perpetrators are not real Muslims or that they are being sponsored. And even if u say they are being sponsored, why would it be so easy to sponsor Muslims to commit acts of violence?

1) Christians in Egypt, Iran, Pakistan are persecuted and killed all the time yet you dont hear of the Christians taking up arms to fight the Muslim-led governments;

2) Muslims in northern Nigeria have been killing Christians but u dont hear of reprisal attacks by Christians in the south;

3) More Muslims have been killed by fellow Muslims than the entire Muslims killed by the US: the Taliban have killed thousands of fellow Muslims in Afghanistan, Sunni Muslims have killed countless number of Shiite Muslims in Iraq and Pakistan;

4) Muslims in Christian majority countries go about their daily activities without any fear of harassment, however this is not the case with Christians living in Muslim majority countries such as Iran and Egypt.

5) If you convert to another religion in a Muslim country you are bound to be killed or jailed (this is common in Iran and Saudi Arabia); if you convert from Christianity to any other religion, the only harassment you'll get will be from your family;

6) Out of 24 religion-related conflicts that happened recently posted by Olasesi (a strong Muslim himself), only 4 involved Christians while 20 involved Muslims fighting with members of other religions/govts.

I'm not saying Christians have not had issues in the past (such as the Spanish Inquisition I mentioned earlier) but these happened a very long time ago, you dont hear of such things anymore. Civilization has changed all that.

And all the wars you listed that Christians started really made me laugh. Do you know the difference between a civil war and a religious war/conflict? All those conflicts you listed are purely civil wars, coups and military uprisings with very clear-cut political agendas; they are by no means religious wars/conflicts.
I wonder why you didnt even list the Nigerian civil war amongst your list since the war was started by the Igbos who are mostly Christians (lol).