₦airaland Forum

ijawkid: Jesus was given the authority....didn't u read it??

And what you should be asking is how Jesus was able to"" take it up""??

Ask and answers would be given.....

Scriptures are all over the place to help you....

How was Jesus able to"" take it up"" if He was just a man??

frosbel: I just responded, did you not read my comments ?

Paul and Peter's testimony is good enough for me.

You say you are not a catholic but you hold unto their belief system , how can this be ?

Is Jesus testimony also good for you? Actually none of them is good for you. Its either all is good for you or none is good for you. They all stand or fall together you are not allowed to choose which you want to go with, and which you want to reject.

frosbel: Trust me , you will leave the catholic church like I did a few years ago, and you will find the REAL JESUS !!

Answer my question, How can Jesus have "authority to take it up again" if Jesus is not God but just a mere man? Please to answer that question.

I am not a Roman Catholic, they are false. Roman Catholic is an oxymoron you can't be Roman (local) and catholic (universal) at the sametime.

ijawkid: Lmao....

And I need just a scripture for this hoax u just wrote......

Open the scriptures and stop explaining what is not within the walls of the bible.....

Open the bible and prove what you just said......

Open open open!!!!!!!

I and others have done that in many past posts to you all, and you all just ignore them all.

frosbel: "No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down and authority to take it up again. This command I received from my Father." - John 10:18

Also the Apostles disagree with you .

"But the one whom God raised from the dead did not see decay. - Acts 13:37"
- PAUL


"You killed the author of life, but God raised him from the dead. We are witnesses of this. - Acts 3:15 "
- PETER


By his power God raised the Lord from the dead, and he will raise us also - 1 Corinthians 6:14 "
- PAUL

How can Jesus have "authority to take it up again" if Jesus is not God but just a mere man? Please to answer that question.

TroGunn: All three men who met Abraham were angels, my friend. Of course, Yahweh had not appeared in the flesh to Abraham. (Exodus 33:20 - "But He said, "You cannot see My face, for no man can see Me and live!""

And it's not the first time an angel speaks as though God is speaking directly. Or humans speak to angels (Yahweh's representatives) as if speaking to Yahweh.

Examples:

Genesis 16:7-13 : Darby Translation (DARBY)

7 And the Angel of Jehovah found her by a spring of water in the wilderness, by the spring on the way to Shur.

8 And he said, Hagar, Sarai's maidservant, whence comest thou? and whither art thou going? And she said, I am fleeing from the face of my mistress Sarai.

9 And the Angel of Jehovah said to her, Return to thy mistress, and submit thyself under her hands.

10 And the Angel of Jehovah said to her, I will multiply thy seed exceedingly, that it shall not be numbered for multitude.

11 And the Angel of Jehovah said to her, Behold, thou art with child, and shalt bear a son, and shalt call his name Ishmael, because Jehovah hath hearkened to thy affliction.

12 And he will be a wild-ass of a man, his hand against every man, and every man's hand against him; and he shall dwell before the face of all his brethren.

13 And she called the name of Jehovah who spoke to her, Thou art the ùGod who reveals himself, for she said, Also here have I seen after he has revealed himself.

Another one:

Judges 6:12-16:12 And the Angel of Jehovah appeared to him, and said to him, Jehovah is with thee, thou mighty man of valour.

13 And Gideon said to him, Ah my Lord, if Jehovah be with us, why then is all this befallen us? and where are all his miracles that our fathers told us of, saying, Did not Jehovah bring us up from Egypt? And now Jehovah hath cast us off, and given us into the hand of Midian.

14 And Jehovah looked upon him, and said, Go in this thy might, and thou shalt save Israel from the hand of Midian. Have not I sent thee?

15 And he said to him, Ah Lord, wherewith shall I save Israel? behold, my thousand is the poorest in Manasseh, and I am the least in my father's house.

16 And Jehovah said to him, I will certainly be with thee; and thou shalt smite Midian as one man.


Now Gen 19:1 shows only two angels went into Sodom - "The two angels arrived at Sodom in the evening, and Lot was sitting in the gateway of the city. When he saw them, he got up to meet them and bowed down with his face to the ground."

Why did God send 3 angels to Abraham and only 2 to Sodom? Because a very important message was being delievered that will change history - they'll have a son, through whose lineage Jesus would be born. Using three persons firmly established the message. - "A matter must be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses". God opted to do three.(Deuteronomy 19:15; 1 Timothy 5:19)

Genesis (New International Version) 18:1-2, 13-14, 26-33;'The Lord appeared to Abraham near the great trees of Mamre while he was sitting at the entrance to his tent in the heat of the day. 2 Abraham looked up and saw three men standing nearby. When he saw them, he hurried from the entrance of his tent to meet them and bowed low to the ground. 13 Then the Lord said to Abraham, “Why did Sarah laugh and say, ‘Will I really have a child, now that I am old?’ 14 Is anything too hard for the Lord? I will return to you at the appointed time next year, and Sarah will have a son.” 16 When the men got up to leave, they looked down toward Sodom, and Abraham walked along with them to see them on their way. 17 Then the Lord said, “Shall I hide from Abraham what I am about to do? 18 Abraham will surely become a great and powerful nation, and all nations on earth will be blessed through him.[c] 19 For I have chosen him, so that he will direct his children and his household after him to keep the way of the Lord by doing what is right and just, so that the Lord will bring about for Abraham what he has promised him.”

20 Then the Lord said, “The outcry against Sodom and Gomorrah is so great and their sin so grievous 21 that I will go down and see if what they have done is as bad as the outcry that has reached me. If not, I will know.”

22 The men turned away and went toward Sodom, but Abraham remained standing before the Lord.[d] 23 Then Abraham approached him and said: “Will you sweep away the righteous with the wicked? 24 What if there are fifty righteous people in the city? Will you really sweep it away and not spare[e] the place for the sake of the fifty righteous people in it? 25 Far be it from you to do such a thing—to kill the righteous with the wicked, treating the righteous and the wicked alike. Far be it from you! Will not the Judge of all the earth do right?”

26 The Lord said, “If I find fifty righteous people in the city of Sodom, I will spare the whole place for their sake.”

27 Then Abraham spoke up again: “Now that I have been so bold as to speak to the Lord, though I am nothing but dust and ashes, 28 what if the number of the righteous is five less than fifty? Will you destroy the whole city for lack of five people?”

“If I find forty-five there,” he said, “I will not destroy it.”

29 Once again he spoke to him, “What if only forty are found there?”

He said, “For the sake of forty, I will not do it.”

30 Then he said, “May the Lord not be angry, but let me speak. What if only thirty can be found there?”

He answered, “I will not do it if I find thirty there.”

31 Abraham said, “Now that I have been so bold as to speak to the Lord, what if only twenty can be found there?”

He said, “For the sake of twenty, I will not destroy it.”

32 Then he said, “May the Lord not be angry, but let me speak just once more. What if only ten can be found there?”

He answered, “For the sake of ten, I will not destroy it.”

33 When the Lord had finished speaking with Abraham, he left, and Abraham returned home.

Genesis 19:24, 29 "Then the Lord rained down burning sulfur on Sodom and Gomorrah—from the Lord out of the heavens. 29 So when God destroyed the cities of the plain, he remembered Abraham, and he brought Lot out of the catastrophe that overthrew the cities where Lot had lived."

So one of the angels was God, The Angel that talked to Abraham on earth, that's why "the Lord rained down burning sulfur on Sodom and Gomorrah—from the Lord out of the heavens."

OLD TESTAMENT SAYINGS
Who Is the Angel of the Lord? (Judg 6:22-23)

IF GIDEON ONLY SAW AN ANGEL, WHY DID HE FEAR THAT HE MIGHT DIE? Many interpreters believe that an angel takes God's place and acts as his representative. However, others do not feel this explanation fits all the data. Who, then, is this "angel of the LORD"?

The angel of the Lord first appears in Genesis 16:7 and then intermittently throughout the early Old Testament books. In other passages an individual manifesting himself in human form is frequently called "the LORD" (Gen 12:7; 17:1; 18:1). If this angel actually were God, why is he called an angel? Since the root meaning of angel is "messenger" or "one who is sent," we must determine from context whether the word refers to the office of the sent one or to the nature of created angels as finite beings.

Initially, some contexts of the term "angel of the LORD" appear to refer to nothing more than any other angel (as in Judg 6:11). But as the narrative progresses, that angel soon transcends the angelic category and is described in terms suited only to a member of the Trinity. Thus in the Judges 6 episode, we are startled when verse 14 has the Lord speaking to Gideon, when previously only the angel of the Lord had been talking.

Many Old Testament passages state that this angel is God. Thus, after being told that Hagar had been speaking with the angel of the Lord (four times in Gen 16:7, 9-11), Genesis 16:13 informs us that Hagar "gave this name to the LORD who spoke to her: `You are the God who sees me.'" Jacob's testimony in Genesis 48:15-16 is even more striking. He identifies the God in whose presence his fathers Abraham and Isaac had lived as "the God who has been my shepherd all my life to this day, the Angel who has delivered me from all harm."

This angel spoke to Jacob earlier in a dream and identified himself by saying, "I am the God of Bethel, where you anointed a pillar and where you made a vow to me" (Gen 31:11, 13).

Likewise in Exodus 3:2-6 the phrase "the angel of the LORD" is used interchangeably with "the LORD." In fact the angel claims, "I am the God of your father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac and the God of Jacob" (Ex 3:6).

The passage, however, that really clinches this remarkable identification is Exodus 23:20-23. There God promises to send his angel ahead of the children of Israel as they go through the desert. The Israelites were warned that they must obey and not rebel against this angel. The reason was a stunning one: "Since my Name is in him." God would never share his memorial name with anyone else, for Isaiah 42:8 advised that he would never share his glory with another. Thus the name of God stands for himself. And when a person is said to have the name of God in him, that person is God!

This angel has divine qualities, prerogatives and authority. He has the power to give life (Gen 16:10) and to see and know all (Gen 16:13; Ex 3:7). Only God can forgive sin, yet this angel did the same in Exodus 23:21. The angel performed miracles such as keeping a burning bush from being consumed (Ex 3:2), smiting Egypt with plagues (Ex 3:20), calling forth fire on the rock to consume the meal set for him (Judg 6:21) and ascending the flame of the altar (Judg 13:20).

Finally, this angel commanded and received worship from Moses (Ex 3:5) and Joshua (Josh 5:14). Angels were not to receive worship. When John attempted to worship an angel in Revelation 19:10; 22:8-9, he was corrected quickly and told not to do it.

It is clear from this abundance of evidence that the angel of the Lord in the Old Testament was a preincarnate form of our Lord Jesus Christ, who would later permanently take on flesh when he came as a babe in Bethlehem. But mark it well: the one who came after John had already been before--he was that angel of the Lord. His full deity was always observed and yet he presented the same mystery of the Trinity that would later be observed in "I and the Father are one" (Jn 10:30) and "my other witness is the Father, who sent me" (Jn 8:18). It is that word sent that ties together the angel, messenger or sent one into an Old Testament theology of christophanies, appearances of God in human form.

See also comment on GENESIS 32:23-33; EXODUS 24:9-11; 33:18-23.

http://www.ivpress.com/title/exc/1423-8c.php

ijawkid: And where was his God nature that you claimed was with him right from the time he was in marys womb till his death??

You said he was 100 percent man and GOD on earth....

Did you forget??

Now you are clinging to his human nature alone to escape reality.....

His God nature was everywhere as God. God is everywhere.

frosbel: sorry this is just plain nonsense.

You either die or you do not die.

So if his Human part died , why did his God part not raise him from the dead, why did God the father have to raise his SON through his Spirit from the dead.

Surely Jesus is GOD , so his God nature should have left after death and raised him up , no ?

Also if he did not DIE 100% , then Jesus was playing pretend and the resurrection was a joke.

You Catholics are so so deceived and lost , repent from your blasphemies to avoid sharing the lake of fire with all the popes starting from emperor Constantine.

Jesus also said that He will raised Himself up from the dead, John 2:19,21 (New International Version) "Jesus answered them, “Destroy this temple, and I will raise it again in three days.” 21 But the temple he had spoken of was his body."

ijawkid: So how many parts of Jesus preached to the spirits in prison??

And please when did Jesus go preach to the spirits in heaven??before his death or after ressurection??

And please if it was Jesus' human nature that dies while his God nature ran somewhere else,which part of Jesus was ressurected??

His human nature or his God nature??

And please use the bible.....

It was His human nature that died, and it was His same human nature that was ressurected.

frosbel: So 1/3 of God appeared as a Man while the other 3/4 remained as 2 distinct persons ?

Friend you are disgracing your Trinitarian theologians and making this become a joke.

You err because you don't know the scriptures, Satan has fooled you. You are totally blind to the truth. You don't want to see the truth at all.

frosbel: So Jesus had already interacted with his people as a man in the past , but when he came through Mary he came as a real MAN , lol.

Did I not say you guys and your trinity idol are steeped into total confusion !!!

He only took on the appearance of a man in the Old Testament, He was not actually a man in the Old Testament.

ijawkid: So which God has no one seen??

Oya talk....

God The Father no one has seen, so The God Almighty people saw in the Old Testament could not of being The Father but The Son - Jesus. How else it this truth be logically explained?

ijawkid: And you keep getting blind......

How does it differ from solomon summoning elders to king solomon??




SMH!!!!!!.....

And once again you are ending up been deluded by your trinity dogma and your trinitarian scholars.....

Now how does your shaky stance ryhme with deuteronomy 6;4 that says Yahweh is 1 Yahweh not two.....??

You are on a long thing my bro......

Keep been dulled......

And again no man can see Yahweh....that's a reminder...

I'm through with you...

I can do something to myself but I can't do something from myself. Logical and simple.

TroGunn: Darby Bible Translation
"And Jehovah rained on Sodom and Gomorrah brimstone and fire from Jehovah out of heaven".

Do you really think this refers to two persons or you are arguing for the sake of arguing?

And what's the meaning of "Yahweh on earth", which you inserted and is not part of the Blble text? Is that supposed to be Jesus? Was Jesus on earth at time? Na waooo

One of the men who spoke to Abraham on earth and who went into Sodom and Gomorrah was God according to the bible.

Yes, it referrs to two persons only that make sense.

John 1:1-4, 14, 18 (New International Version) In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was with God in the beginning. 3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. 4 In him was life, and that life was the light of all mankind. 14 The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth. 18 No one has ever seen God, but the one and only Son, who is himself God and is in closest relationship with the Father, has made him known.

This passage says The Word was God and the Word Jesus. And verses 18 also says He was God.

ijawkid: Hahahahahahahaha......

And please point out the mistake.....

In that 1 kings 8:1 it says that :::

""Solomon"" summoned the judges and elders to ""king solomon""....

An exact similar expression moses used when he said ""Yahweh made it rain fire and sulphur from Yahweh...""

When I say read your bible completely u won't...

U rather go around to cherry pick verses that you never let the bible explain..instead you allow the trinity dogma dull you to the extent that any scripture u just see u want to use.....

And that is because after quoting deuteronomy 6:4 that says Yahweh is 1 Yahweh and also Jesus reiterating @ mark 12:29 that Yahweh is one Yahweh too,you and your colleagues chose to avoid that but childishly clung to genesis 19:24 which doesn't even for one bit prove the trinity or that Yahweh is more that one person....

Genesis 19:24 (English Standard Version (©2001))

"Then the LORD (Yahweh on earth) rained on Sodom and Gomorrah sulfur and fire from the LORD out of heaven."

Two persons are called Yahweh the one on earth, and the one in heaven.

How can a person do something from themself, for example can you take something from yourself? The preposition "from" shows there are two persons otherwise the statement don't make any sense at all.

This is the point that you missed big time, and thus you erred because you don't know the scriptures.

Wesley's Notes

19:24 Then the Lord rained - from the Lord - God the Son, from God the Father, for the Father has committed all judgment to the Son. He that is the Saviour will be the destroyer of those that reject the salvation.

http://bible.cc/genesis/19-24.htm

ijawkid: Thanks for calling us satan and everything.....

But please have u checked up the link I posted that exposes your stance on genesis 19:24 which u said there is more than 1 Yahweh....

You guys are so desperate to prove a doctrine that has no biblical basis by cherry picking.......

I read it, and saw your very big mistake thats why I make the comment.

frosbel: The oneness doctrine is no different from the Trinity, all confusion in action !!

Wesley's Notes
9:6 For - Having spoken of the glorious light, and joy, and victory of God's people, he now proceeds to shew the ground of it. Us - Unto us Jews, of whom Christ was born, and to whom he was primarily sent. A child - The Messiah by the consent of interpreters, not only Christian, but Jewish: for so the ancient Hebrew doctors understood the place, and particularly the Chaldee paraphrast; although the latter Jews, out of opposition to Christ, wrest it to Hezekiah. Which extravagant conceit, as it hath no foundation in this or any other text of scripture, so it is fully confuted by the following titles, which are such as cannot without blasphemy and nonsense be ascribed to Hezekiah, nor indeed to any mere mortal man, as we shall see. Is born - Or, shall be born, as the prophets generally speak. The government - Of God's people, to whom he is given. Shoulders - Upon him, or in his hands. He mentions shoulders, because great burdens are commonly laid upon men's shoulders. His name - This is not to be taken for a description of his name, but of his glorious nature and qualities. Wonderful counsellor - And so Christ is, because he hath been the counsellor of his church in all ages, and the author and giver of all those excellent counsels delivered not only by the apostles, but also by the prophets, and hath gathered and enlarged, and preserved his church, by admirable counsels and methods of his providence, and, in a word, hath in him all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge, Col 2:3. Mighty God - This title can agree to no man but Christ, who was God as well as man, to whom the title of God or Jehovah is given, both in the Old and New Testament. And it is a true observation, that this Hebrew word El is never used in the singular number, of any creature, but only of the almighty God. The father - The father of eternity. Who, though as man he was then unborn, yet was and is from everlasting to everlasting.

http://bible.cc/isaiah/9-6.htm

frosbel: The oneness doctrine is no different from the Trinity, all confusion in action !!

Wesley's Notes
9:6 For - Having spoken of the glorious light, and joy, and victory of God's people, he now proceeds to shew the ground of it. Us - Unto us Jews, of whom Christ was born, and to whom he was primarily sent. A child - The Messiah by the consent of interpreters, not only Christian, but Jewish: for so the ancient Hebrew doctors understood the place, and particularly the Chaldee paraphrast; although the latter Jews, out of opposition to Christ, wrest it to Hezekiah. Which extravagant conceit, as it hath no foundation in this or any other text of scripture, so it is fully confuted by the following titles, which are such as cannot without blasphemy and nonsense be ascribed to Hezekiah, nor indeed to any mere mortal man, as we shall see. Is born - Or, shall be born, as the prophets generally speak. The government - Of God's people, to whom he is given. Shoulders - Upon him, or in his hands. He mentions shoulders, because great burdens are commonly laid upon men's shoulders. His name - This is not to be taken for a description of his name, but of his glorious nature and qualities. Wonderful counsellor - And so Christ is, because he hath been the counsellor of his church in all ages, and the author and giver of all those excellent counsels delivered not only by the apostles, but also by the prophets, and hath gathered and enlarged, and preserved his church, by admirable counsels and methods of his providence, and, in a word, hath in him all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge, Col 2:3. Mighty God - This title can agree to no man but Christ, who was God as well as man, to whom the title of God or Jehovah is given, both in the Old and New Testament. And it is a true observation, that this Hebrew word El is never used in the singular number, of any creature, but only of the almighty God. The father - The father of eternity. Who, though as man he was then unborn, yet was and is from everlasting to everlasting.

http://bible.cc/isaiah/9-6.htm

TroGunn: But the meaning is Eternal Father, refering to living forever, not without beginning. Dig your Hebrew further. It's the reason most translators use Eternal or Everlasting Father because that's the English meaning. I know you are desperate to find even one place in the Bible to support Trinity, but sorry, nothing here to help you.

[ Question:

Isaiah 9:6, it is said that "everlasting Father" can or should be "Father of eternity" and that Father in this sense does not connect Jesus to being God "the Father" but rather means he is the possessor of eternity (Ab-raham Father of many, Ab being the hebrew word for Father).

Response:

Concerning Isaiah 9:6, it is true that we could "literally" read this as "Father of Eternity." However, this is the way you would say "Eternal Father" in Hebrew. In comparison with English, the Hebrew language is deficient in adjectives. Instead, they would use constructions like this to do what our language does with adjectives. A noun following another noun in construct form can function this way. The word "eternity" is in a genitve construct with the word "Father." It is used in the same way in Hab. 3:6, where "everlasting mountains" is literally "mountains of eternity." The point is clear that he means "mountains which last forever." In 1 Chr. 29:2, "marble stones" is literally "stones of marble." As I said, this is how you would say "Eternal Father" in Hebrew and is why it not translated "Father of Eternity" in any major translation. Even the Theological Wordbook of the Old Testament gives the meaning "Father forever" for this passage. ]

- http://www.onenesspentecostal.com/eternalfather.htm

Isaiah 9:6, Is Jesus the Everlasting Father?



"For a child will be born to us, a son will be given to us; And the government will rest on His shoulders; And His name will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Eternal Father, Prince of Peace," (Isaiah 9:6).

Oneness Pentecostal believers deny the Trinity and teach that Jesus, the Father, and the Holy Spirit are all one person. They sometimes quote Isaiah 9:6 in their attempt to prove their position. However, Isaiah 9:6 cannot be used to disprove the Trinity nor bolster their Oneness doctrine.

When Isaiah 9:6 says that Jesus' name will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Eternal Father, etc., it is not saying that Jesus is the eternal Father, but that he has the characteristics of God. In other words, Jesus has all the attributes of God, including eternality.

In the ancient Jewish culture, names had meanings. We can better understand this by noting American Indian names such as "Running wolf" or "Fighting Bear." The same with Jewish names. They had meanings. Isaac, for example, means "laughter." Noah means "rest" or "peace." So, when Isaiah is speaking of the name of the coming Messiah and says his name will be Mighty God, Eternal Father, etc., it is telling us about the characteristics of the Messiah to come in a prophetic manner.

If Jesus' name is "Eternal Father", then why don't we call Jesus "Eternal Father"? For that matter, why don't we call his name "Wonderful Counselor," or "Mighty God," or "Prince of Peace"? The text speaks of a name, yet has four things revealed in the name. Again, this shows us that it is the characteristics of the then-coming Messiah. The fact that the Messiah would be divine is verified in Heb. 1:3, when it says, "And He [Jesus] is the radiance of His [God] glory and the exact representation of His nature, and upholds all things by the word of His power..." This also explains why Jesus said, "...He who has seen Me has seen the Father," (John 14:9). It was because Jesus so precisely represented God the Father as His prophesied name reveals.

Furthermore, the Oneness Pentecostal people assert that God's name is really "Jesus." But, if that is true, and if Jesus is the Eternal Father as they claim, then why don't they call Jesus "The Eternal Father" as His name? Does it also mean that the mode that God is in right now is that of the Father since His name is "Eternal Father" implying He is always the Father? If that is taken literally, then God is the Eternal Father, and the true person of the Godhead is the Father, not the Son as the Oneness people assert.

The Oneness Pentecostal theology is incorrect and improperly describes the true and living God.

http://carm.org/everlasting-father

Wesley's Notes
9:6 For - Having spoken of the glorious light, and joy, and victory of God's people, he now proceeds to shew the ground of it. Us - Unto us Jews, of whom Christ was born, and to whom he was primarily sent. A child - The Messiah by the consent of interpreters, not only Christian, but Jewish: for so the ancient Hebrew doctors understood the place, and particularly the Chaldee paraphrast; although the latter Jews, out of opposition to Christ, wrest it to Hezekiah. Which extravagant conceit, as it hath no foundation in this or any other text of scripture, so it is fully confuted by the following titles, which are such as cannot without blasphemy and nonsense be ascribed to Hezekiah, nor indeed to any mere mortal man, as we shall see. Is born - Or, shall be born, as the prophets generally speak. The government - Of God's people, to whom he is given. Shoulders - Upon him, or in his hands. He mentions shoulders, because great burdens are commonly laid upon men's shoulders. His name - This is not to be taken for a description of his name, but of his glorious nature and qualities. Wonderful counsellor - And so Christ is, because he hath been the counsellor of his church in all ages, and the author and giver of all those excellent counsels delivered not only by the apostles, but also by the prophets, and hath gathered and enlarged, and preserved his church, by admirable counsels and methods of his providence, and, in a word, hath in him all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge, Col 2:3. Mighty God - This title can agree to no man but Christ, who was God as well as man, to whom the title of God or Jehovah is given, both in the Old and New Testament. And it is a true observation, that this Hebrew word El is never used in the singular number, of any creature, but only of the almighty God. The father - The father of eternity. Who, though as man he was then unborn, yet was and is from everlasting to everlasting.

http://bible.cc/isaiah/9-6.htm

frosbel: Whatever worship means , who asked HIS angels to worship WHO ?

If you say GOD asked his angels to worship GOD , then you need urgent help , honestly !!

Stop beating around the bush.

Clue : "And again, when God brings his firstborn into the world, he says, "Let all God's angels worship him." - Hebrews 1:6

In an above post you were bellyaching about people insulting you now you are talking about "then you need urgent help , honestly !!" you can insult but others can't.

Yes, GOD commanded his angels to worship GOD.

ijawkid: Did you read the other translations I put up to explain my point??....

Douay-Rheims Bible
And again, when he bringeth in the first
begotten into the world, he saith: And
let all
the angels of God"" adore"" him.
........
Young's Literal Translation
and when again He may bring in the
first-born
to the world, He saith, 'And let them""
bow
before"" him -

ADORE and BOW down were used by those translations....

It answers your question...

But as usual you are still stubborn....

The two translations you mentioned have not accurately translated the greek here strong enough because in a religious context the word means worship , and it is a religious context here in Heaven. They most likely meant ADORE and BOW in worship, in their translations because it is a religious context.

ijawkid: And ihedinobi is not Jesus who said no man has see God....

So tell ihedinobi that he failed woefully as well....

So ihedinobi is now ur bible abi??

Next!!!!!......

In that context Jesus meant no one has seen The Father, John 1:18; (New International Version) "No one has ever seen God, but the one and only Son, who is himself God and is in closest relationship with the Father, has made him known." Here again Jesus is called God you all can't deal with these verses, you all just have to ingnore them, and pretent they ain't there you ant-triniterians.

John 6:46 (New International Version) "No one has seen the Father except the one who is from God; only he has seen the Father."

ijawkid: Let me give you an example...


Compare these translations on how they make use of that greek word in matthew
18:26
.......
Aramaic Bible in Plain English (©2010)
And falling down, that servant"" worshiped"" him,
and he said, “My Lord, be patient with me, and
I shall pay you everything.”

King James 2000 Bible (©2003)
The servant therefore fell down, and
""worshiped"" him, saying, Lord, have patience with
me, and I will pay you all.

American King James Version
The servant therefore fell down, and
""worshipped"" him, saying, Lord, have patience
with me, and I will pay you all.
......
American Standard Version
The servant therefore fell down and
""worshipped"" him, saying, Lord, have patience
with me, and I will pay thee all


........

Compare them with these translations...

New American Standard Bible (©1995)
"So the slave fell to the ground and
""prostrated"" himself before him, saying, 'Have
patience with me and I will repay you
everything.'

........

English Standard Version (©2001)
So the servant"" fell on his knees"", imploring him,
‘Have patience with me, and I will pay you
everything.’...

..............

Darby Bible Translation
The bondman therefore falling down did him
""homage"", saying, Lord, have patience with me
and I will pay thee all.....

..........


Can you spot out the way the translations differ??

Some translated the word ""pro·sky·ne′o" as worship others as paying homage,bending down showing honor to a king,bowing down,prostrating..........

Now would you tell me that that slave literally"" worshipped"" the king he was begging??

Need I remind you that it is exactly this same greek word used here in matthew 18:26 that was still used in hebrews 1:6.......

Now the truth is being a trinitarian you would be fast to conclude that Jesus was worshipped in the sense of Jesus being the God of the angels...

,but if you had believed that Jesus is not the almighty God and that Jesus has a God who is over Him and who does not share his worship,then you would know the right way to render that word ""pro·sky·ne′o"" in hebrews 1:6.....

Now try connecting Jesus' perfect response to satan in matthew 4:8 and hebrews 1:6......

And please see how this translation renders and uses the greek word ""pro·sky·ne′o"" in hebrew§ 1:6

.........
Douay-Rheims Bible
And again, when he bringeth in the first
begotten into the world, he saith: And let all
the angels of God"" adore"" him.
........
Young's Literal Translation
and when again He may bring in the first-born
to the world, He saith, 'And let them"" bow
before"" him -- all messengers of God;'
.....

My freind do you now get the gist.........

if you will acknowledge Christ isn't the almighty God and that Yahweh alone is the one we must fully worship,you wouldn't have this problems....

What is done in matthew 18:26, the slave coming before his master was not in a religious context so therefore the slave was not worshipping is master. Hebrews 1:6 is in a religious context in Heaven therefore it is worship, whatever goes on in Heaven is happening in a religious context and thus it is worship, for example in verses 3-4 we are told some of the reason why it is a religious context and thus why they worship Him for example "The Son is the radiance of God’s glory and the exact representation of his being", "After he had provided purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty in heaven" meaning among other things His work of atonement is completed. These are the reasons why "So he became as much superior to the angels as the name he has inherited is superior to theirs." Plain and simple. If this and the rest of Hebrews does show that it is all a religious context and in that religious context that they worship Him then there is no such thing as worship.
I quoted the New International Version.

seriallink: All knowing? But, how come he doesn't know when the end will come He said only the Father knows! How do you explain that verse and a lot others?

If the Holy Spirit is God, why didn't he know the time of Christ's return?


Matthew 24:36; Mark 13:32
1."But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father alone," (Matt. 24:36).
2."But of that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but the Father alone," (Mark 13:32).

There are two possible answers here. First, Jesus is both God and man (John 1:1,14; 20:28; Col. 2:9) and during His ministry in Jerusalem, He was cooperating with the limitations of being a man. As a man, Jesus walked and talked. As God He was worshipped (Matt. 14:33; 28:9; Heb. 1:6), prayed to (Zech. 13:9; 1 Cor. 1:2), etc. This is called the Hypostatic Union.

Since he was operating as a man, under the law (Gal. 4:4), it might very well be that Jesus was referencing the Father as the proper sovereign as only as a good Jew would have done.

Second, cultural context is very important. This passage is about Jesus' return which included getting the bride, the church and then the wedding feast would occur.


"Let us rejoice and be glad and give the glory to Him, for the marriage of the Lamb has come and His bride has made herself ready,8 And it was given to her to clothe herself in fine linen, bright and clean; for the fine linen is the righteous acts of the saints. 9 And he *said to me, "Write, ‘Blessed are those who are invited to the marriage supper of the Lamb," (Rev. 19:7-9).

If we were to look at the cultural context, we can get a much better understanding of what was Jesus may have been alluding to when he said that only the Father knows.

In that historical and cultural context when a man was going to marry a woman, it was usually prearranged. The bridegroom would be living with his family and he would begin to build an addition onto his father's house where he and his future wife would live. It was the custom for the father of the home to be the one who designated when the addition was finished. This meant that only the father knew when the son would be told to go get the bride. But, does this mean that the son would not know when he had to go to get the bride? Not necessarily, and this is why.

A wedding was a community affair where many many people would be invited. This required advance notice so that people could allot the necessary time to attend the wedding and wedding feast. This means that some would have to put their animals away for the day, not work in the field that day, not have business dealings that day, et cetera. In a culture where there is no Internet, phone, or radio, things were done well in advance so that people could plan ahead.

Furthermore, a wedding feast also meant that large amounts of food would have to be prepared in order for all the guests to have something to eat. These kinds of arrangements were not done on the spur of the moment. The arrangements were done weeks, sometimes months in advance. Therefore, to alleviate anyone missing the wedding feast due to a spontaneous invitation that they could not attend, arrangements were made well in advance.

But, in order to maintain the respect and dignity of the father's place in the home, it would naturally be said "that only the father knows" when it would be time for the son to go get the bride. This did not necessitate that the son did not know because the community would have to know within a reasonable degree of accuracy when the wedding would occur. Therefore, Jesus may have been alluding to the phraseology housed in the wedding and wedding feast culture that did not necessarily mean he did not know or the Holy Spirit did not know the time of his return.

http://carm.org/bible-difficulties/matthew-mark/if-holy-spirit-god-why-didnt-he-know-time-christs-return


Does Jesus now know when he is coming back? Or is this still only God's knowledge as stated in Matt. 24:36 and Mark 13:32?


Thanks for your question. I think it’s a good one, and a very important one to answer correctly, especially in the light of some current false teaching, which claims that even God doesn't know all things in the future.

The critical issue, I think, is this: If Jesus is fully God as well as fully human, then how is it that He can be ignorant of anything, since God is omniscient or all-knowing? One might conclude that Jesus did not know all at the time of His birth, and during His childhood. I find the translation of Luke 2:40 in the NET Bible insightful, for it reads:


40 And the child grew and became strong, filled with wisdom, and the favor of God was upon him.


Later on in Luke chapter 2 we read,

Luke 2:46-47


46 After three days they found him in the temple courts, sitting among the teachers, listening to them and asking them questions. 47 And all who heard Jesus were astonished at his understanding and his answers.


This translation avoids the suggestion that Jesus was not all-knowing. The question you have raised is a bit different: "Are there things that God the Father knows, but of which the Son is ignorant?" I found this answer from the Bible Knowledge Commentary (on Matthew 24:36) less than satisfactory:


"The precise moment of the Lord’s return cannot be calculated by anyone. When the Lord spoke these words, that information was said to be known by only the Father. Christ was obviously speaking from the vantage of His human knowledge (cf. Luke 2:52), not from the standpoint of His divine omniscience." [Walvoord, John F., and Zuck, Roy B., The Bible Knowledge Commentary, (Wheaton, Illinois: Scripture Press Publications, Inc.) 1983, 1985.]


The same explanation is given for Mark 13:32:


"This openly expressed limitation on Jesus' knowledge affirms His humanity. In His Incarnation Jesus voluntarily accepted human limitations, including this one (cf. Acts 1:7), in submission to the Father’s will (cf. John 4:34)."[Walvoord, John F., and Zuck, Roy B., The Bible Knowledge Commentary, (Wheaton, Illinois: Scripture Press Publications, Inc.) 1983, 1985.]


If you find this explanation satisfactory, then you need not look further. I find the explanation somewhat less than compelling. It suggests that Jesus is somehow a divided person, with a human side and with a divine side. In the New Testament I see Him as one person, both divine and human. How, then, can we say that Jesus knew the day and hour on his divine side, but not on his human side? Too many times in the New Testament we read of Jesus "knowing" things that only God could know (See John 6:64; Matthew 12:25; Luke 6:8; 11:17).

In context of Matthew's gospel, the Lord's disciples were taken with the splendor of the temple (24:1), but Jesus told them, in effect, not to get too attached to them, because they would all be destroyed (24:2). The disciples then asked Jesus to tell them when these things would happen, and when the end of the age would come (24:3). Jesus did not shrug His shoulders and say, "I don’t know." Instead, Jesus gave many details concerning the last times (24:4ff.). Jesus did not want His disciples to be ignorant of the last times, either, lest they be deceived. While Jesus did not reveal the precise time of His return to His disciples, He did make it clear (not just here, but elsewhere in the gospels and Acts 1) that the end would not come immediately. He described many of the signs that would precede His return to the earth. If the disciples of our Lord listened carefully to the words of the Master, they would know the "season" of His coming. My point in all of this is that if Jesus was ignorant (in the dark) about the end times, how could He be so specific in giving so many details? The point of His teaching in Matthew 24 was to "be ready." Because they did not to know the precise time of the Lord's return they were to be watchful and attentive.

The specific day of His return was not made known to the apostles, nor to the angels. The wise servant is the one who is watching for the Master's return, and who is working for his Master when He returns.

In what sense, then, does the Son not "know" about the "hour" of the Lord's return? In the Gospel of John, Jesus repeatedly states that He will not act independently of the Father. As in His temptation, Jesus refuses to act independently of the Father. This is a part of His submission to the Father (see, for example, John 8:28; 12:49-50; 14:31). Jesus speaks and acts only as the Father has directed and instructed Him.

Now let us consider the term rendered "know" in Matthew 24:36 and Mark 13:32. In the Septuagint -- the Greek translation of the Old Testament -- the same Greek word oida is used to translate the Hebrew word for "know" in Genesis 18:19:

Genesis 18:19


19 "I have chosen [literally "known"] him, so that he may command his children and his household after him to keep the way of the Lord by doing what is right and just. Then the Lord will give to Abraham what he promised him."


In Jeremiah 1:5 God's choice of Jeremiah while still in the womb is described by the same Hebrew word for "know," although the Greek word used in the Septuagint is different than oida.

One may also wish to consider the use of oida in Matthew 25:12:

Matthew 25:12


12 But he replied, 'I tell you the truth, I do not know you!' The NET Bible


Surely this means something more like, "You are not one of my guests" (i.e. you are not one of my chosen guests), rather than, "I don't have any idea who you are, I've never seen or heard of you before."

It is my opinion that Jesus is using this word "to know" in two different ways in Matthew and Mark. Jesus is saying, on the one hand, that His disciples cannot, should not, and will not "know" the precise day or hour of His coming. On the other hand, Jesus is using the same word (to know) with reference to His submission to the Father in regard to the timing of His return. He is saying, I believe, "It is not my place as the Son to determine or to announce the time of my coming " that is an aspect of My Father's role in the Trinity, as the Father." The bottom line is that the disciples have a fixation on knowing the exact time of our Lord's return. Jesus is saying, in effect, "It is none of your business, and in a sense it is not mine to tell you, either. I will come when it is the Father's time for Me to come. For me to announce the time of my coming in advance is to steal the Father's thunder." It is not that He does not know, or cannot know this day, but that this is not consistent with His role as the Son.

I am sure that some may differ with me on this explanation, but I find it within the boundaries of the use of the term, and within the boundaries of biblical theology.

I think that it is dangerous to conclude that God knows something that the Son does not, when both are God, and both are omniscient.

http://bible.org/question/does-jesus-now-know-when-he-coming-back-or-still-only-gods-knowledge-stated-matt-2436-and-m

ijawkid: The context there is that Jesus has been exalted over the angels and has been designated by Yahweh as king of Yahwehs kingdom......

The angels do not see Jesus as there God they render exclusive devotion to....

Yahweh is the one person who deserves all the worship....

Jesus himself has given you a perfect reply there in matthew...

So your duty is to find out what the bible means when it says the angels should worship Jesus....

Phillipians explains it better by using the word ""bow down""......

So therefore it is a religious context in Heaven and thus it is worship of Jesus. You can't get away from that - the religious context that it is in Heaven.

What historical evidence do you all ant-trninitarians have to show that the Trinity doctrine is pagan. Because it is a lie of Satan to say that it is pagan. The bible teaches The Trinity but Satan the father lies say that it is pagan and you ant-trninitarians are all fooled by Satan.

ijawkid: SMH!!!!!!.........

And quote just 1 scripture to prove it....

We are waiting.......

Then when Jesus was ressurected which part of Him was ressurected??

You anti-Trinitarians have failed to deal with scriptures the we put forth to you all that show that Jesus is God, you all just ignored them as if they don't exist, you all are very dishonest. For example John 20:28 (New International Version (©1984)) "Thomas said to him, "My Lord and my God!", Thomas correctly called Jesus God.
John 5:18 (New International Version (©1984)) "For this reason the Jews tried all the harder to kill him; not only was he breaking the Sabbath, but he was even calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God." Jesus revealed to the Jews that He was equal to God, and they understood that.

If everything that was created and made were all created and made by Jesus then how could Jesus have being created unless He created Himself which is nonsense, Colossians 1:16 and John 1:3? Therefore He is Yahweh God Almighty.

If Jesus is not God then what is the name that Matthew 28:19 speak of that is shared by all three persons in the Godhead?

How do you explain 2 Peter 1:1 (New International Version) "Simon Peter, a servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who through the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ have received a faith as precious as ours", and Titus 2:13 (New International Version) "while we wait for the blessed hope—the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ"?

All these passages above show that Jesus is God, and God is all knowing therefore Jesus is all knowing. Simple and logical but in your all dishonesty you all just ignore all these passages and the others as well.

Genesis 19:24 (English Standard Version (©2001)) "Then the LORD (Yahweh) rained on Sodom and Gomorrah sulfur and fire from the LORD (Yahweh) out of heaven." If Jesus in His preexistance is not one of the two persons that is referred to as Yahweh here in this passage then tell me who are the two persons here that are referred to as Yahweh? And remember Yahweh knows every thing therefore Jesus as Yahweh knows everything, simple and logical. If A = B, and B = C, then A = C. Plain and simple logic.

John 21:17 also says Jesus knows everything.

If someone tells me something to tell someone else how does that prove that I don't already know of that thing that I am told to tell someone else? Explain that to me. Haven't anyone ever told you anything that you didn't already know of or about (and to tell someone else of or about it)? Where is your all logic?

1 corinthians 15:24-28 is in harmony with what we Trinitarians are saying of The Son's subjection to The Father.

Obediant children are all subject to their parents yet the children and parents all have the same human nature. The Trinity is one "what" (Yahweh God Almighty) and three "whos" (three persons).

Like always you all are going to ignore all of the above in your all dishonesty.

It was His human nature that was ressurected, that is what died.

ijawkid: When the scriptures use the greek word "" pro·sky·ne′o"" if not used in the right context we would contradict the bible and its truth....

That greek word means all these::::
worship,obeisance.bow down,prostrate...etc

When Yahweh says let the angels "" pro·sky·ne′o"" Jesus,Yahweh was only telling the angels to bow down and show honor and respect to his exalted Son.......not to worship Jesus as there GOD....the GOd of the angels and Jesus is Yahweh......

We can't possibly worship 2 GODs,.....

That will go against the whole scriptures.....

It is Yahweh alone we are to worship.....Jesus was 100% correct when he gave satan that perfect rebuttal that it is Yahweh only we must worship.......

And please have u followed up that link I pasted??

It gives u a perfect exegesis on what genesis 19:24 meant....

When such is done in a religious context it is worshp. They did it in a religious context to Jesus so it is worship of Jesus. Outside of a religious context it can be obeisance, respect, and so on, but the context here is religious in nature which make it worship in nature of Jesus.

seriallink: Where is the above written in the Bible

Jesus calling God His Father by nature and right is saying that He is equal to The Father in nature and essence, John 5:18.
When I say such a person is my father by nature I am saying we have the same human nature.

frosbel: for eternity and not from eternity !

He shall be called everlasting father.

shall be is future tense, he was not then the everlasting father of the new age or new kingdom to come.

Get the English right and you will never make another mistake.

How can He in the future be called "Father of Eternity", if He is not without begining or end - eternal - which is what the hebrew idiom means.