ijawkid:

So Jesus human nature was what died,not his God nature...

Please can you kindly open just one verse to prove this heresy!!!!!...

Please we'll appreciate it....

Open the scripture where it says it is a part of Jesus that died not the whole of Jesus.....

Make u no dey talk lie because of trinity o....

Was there Jesus somewhere else,when he was in the grave for 3 good days??

Oboy this your LIE na wa o....

Jesus was both God and man, since God can't die that means it was His human nature that died. Plain and simple.

ijawkid:

Please viisit this thread....

Gensis 19:24 was explained and the trinity debunked....
www.nairaland.com/1063938/perfect-rebuttal-ubenidictus-genesis-19

And please why should the Son be subjected to the Father??

It seems you guys don't understand the implication of the word ""CO - EQUAL""

You guys coined the word but the bible keeps debunking the fraud ""trinity""

""CO - EQUAL"" in nature and essence only not in authority and role in The Trinity.

You forgot one thing at your other thread, in Genesis 19:24 (English Standard Version) "Then the Lord (Yahweh on the earth) rained on Sodom and Gomorrah sulfur and fire from the Lord (Yahweh) out of heaven." So therefore its two persons been spoken of as Yahweh. That's the part you forgot (earth and heaven).

Wesley's Notes
19:24 Then the Lord rained - from the Lord - God the Son, from God the Father, for the Father has committed all judgment to the Son. He that is the Saviour will be the destroyer of those that reject the salvation.

http://bible.cc/genesis/19-24.htm

ijawkid:

You are still on the Yahweh made it rain fire from Yahweh??

I had opened a thread as a rebuttal to your low understanding of genesis 19:24 but you ran away........


And please how should I worship Jesus??the same way you worship mary ??

Right??

Matthew 4:10 say we should only worship God yet Jesus approvingly received worship from angels and men, therefore He is God.

Boomark: Certainly the END of this DILEMMA!

@ijawkid
You didnt quote 27 and 28. This where it ended na. Some of them might have lost their bible.

1 Corinthians 15:27-28
New International Version (NIV)
27 For he “has put everything
under his feet.”[a] Now when it
says that “everything” has been put
under him, it is clear that this does
not include God himself, who put
everything under Christ. 28 When
he has done this, then the Son
himself will be made subject to him
who put everything under him, so
that God may be all in all.

This is just a summary of all the things we have been reading in the bible mainly with respect to our Lord Jesus Christ and His God, the Father.
But i still have concerns. It seems this verse is spiritually hidden from them in this forum.

Please if you can see this post hit LIKE. For trinitarians, if you don't like it disprove it. Unless you don't see it.

1 Corinthians 15:27
For he hath put all things under his feet
This is a reason proving that all enemies, and death itself, shall be put under the feet of Christ, and is taken out of ( Psalms 8:6 ) which is spoken of one that is styled man, and the son of man; and is to be understood not of Adam in a state of innocence; for the word there used signifies a frail mortal man, which he then was not, nor could he be called the son of man; and though the earth was subdued and subject to him, and he had dominion over the fish of the sea, the fowls of the air, and every living thing that moveth on the earth, yet all creatures were not subject to him in this large sense, in which it is here and elsewhere explained by the apostle; and much less of man in his fallen state, who instead of having all things under his feet, is become like the beasts that perish; many of them: are unsubdued to him, and he is even in fear of them, and he himself is subject to corruption and vanity: but of the man Christ Jesus, who took and bore all the sinless infirmities of human nature; is often called the son of man; of whom God was mindful, and whom lie visited in his state of humiliation, at the time of his death, resurrection, and exaltation; who was made through sufferings of death a little lower, or a little while lower than the angels, but now crowned with glory and honour; in whose days God ordained strength and praise out of the mouths of babes and sucklings, to the confusion of his enemies; and has put all things under his feet, which may elude all things animate and inanimate, the whole creation and universe of things, the world and its fulness, the earth and all that is therein, the beasts of the forest, and the cattle of a thousand hills; he is heir of the world, and has a right to it, and to dispose of it, not merely as the Creator, but as Mediator; it is put in subjection to him to make use of, and what is in it to subserve his mediatorial kingdom and his glory; when his ends are answered by it, the earth and all that is therein shall be burnt up, and a new earth arise out of it, in which Christ and his people will dwell: the air and all that is therein are under him; the fowls of it are at his dispose; he it was that rained feathered fowls as the sand of the sea, about the camp of the Israelites in the wilderness, and commanded the ravens to feed Elijah in distress; and who holds the winds in his fist, lets them loose, calls them in, and commands them at pleasure; as he also does the sea, and the boisterous waves of it, and has dominion over the fishes in it; one of those supplied him with money, to pay his tribute; and multitudes of them, more than once, were gathered together, and taken up by his order and direction; and at the last day, the sea at his command will give up the dead that are in it; yea, this may extend to all rational creatures, angels and men, friends or foes: good angels, principalities and powers, are subject to him, as appears by their attendance on him: at his incarnation, ascension, and second coming; by their ministration to him in the wilderness, and in the garden; by their employment under him, for the good of the heirs of salvation; by their dependence on him, as their Creator and head, and by their adoration of him as their Lord and God. Evil angels, the devils, are also put under his feet, as is evident from his overcoming Satan, and baffling all his temptations; by his dispossessing the devils out of the bodies of men, and giving his disciples also power over them; by his spoiling them at death, and triumphing over them in his ascension; by delivering his people out of their hands, and power, in conversion; and by his binding of Satan during the thousand years, and by casting him and his angels into everlasting fire prepared for them. Elect men are made subject to him, by the power of his grace upon them; and yet their subjection to him, to his Gospel ordinances, and the sceptre of his kingdom; is voluntary and from their hearts; it proceeds from a principle of love to him; and is universal, being a regard unto, and a compliance with all his precepts; and evil men are also under his dominion and control; he rules them with a rod of iron; he disappoints their counsels, restrains their wrath, overrules their evil designs and actions against his people for good; and will one day gather them all before him, pass the righteous sentence on them, and send them into everlasting punishment. Moreover, this may reach to everything that is for the glory of Christ as Mediator, and for the good of his church, and to every enemy of his or theirs, as the world, sin, Satan, and the last enemy, death; to prove the subjection of all which to Christ, this testimony is produced: and respects Christ as Mediator, and the Father's delivering all things into his hands, and giving him all power in heaven and in earth, and rule over all creatures and things;
but when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that
he is excepted, which did put all things under him;
that is, when David, or the Holy Spirit by him, said the above words, in ( Psalms 8:6 ) nothing is more clear and evident, than that God the Father, who made all things subject to Christ as Mediator, is himself not subjected to him; since his power as such must be greater than his: this exception is made to secure the government, power, and honour of the Father; for though he has made his firstborn higher than the kings of the earth, yet not higher than himself; and though he has set him his King over his holy hill of Zion, yet not over himself; and though it is his will that all men should honour the Son, as they honour the Father, yet not above him, or more than he; nor has he quitted the government, either in the world or in the church, by subjecting all things to Christ: and this exception is also made to confirm the universal power and empire of Christ, for an exception to a general rule does but the more establish it; and since the Father is only excepted, it is a clear case, that he has left nothing that is not put under him; see ( Hebrews 2:8 ) but it must be observed, that though the Holy Spirit is not mentioned, yet he is equally excepted; since he is the one God with the Father, and was jointly concerned in the mission, unction, and installation of Christ, as Mediator; nor can he be reckoned among the all things put in subjection to Christ, for they regard only creatures, and many of these enemies, with neither of which the Spirit of God can be numbered; and though the gifts and graces of the Spirit are put into Christ's hands, and are at his dispose, yet the person of the Spirit can never be thought to be put under his feet.

http://www.biblestudytools.com/commentaries/gills-exposition-of-the-bible/1-corinthians-15-27.html

And when all things shall be subdued unto him
For all things as yet are not put under him in fact; though in right God the Father has given to him an authoritative power over all things, and a right to dispose of them at his pleasure; but all things are not actually and in their full extent subject to him, yet they will be when the last enemy is destroyed: and

then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all
things under him;
which must be interpreted and understood with great care and caution; not in the Sabellian sense, of refunding of the characters of the Son, and so of the Father unto God; when they suppose these characters, which they imagine to be merely nominal, bare names, will be no more, and God shall be all; but as the Father will always remain a father, so the Son will remain a son; for, as the Son of the Highest, he will reign over his people for ever, and he the Son, as a priest, is consecrated for ever, more: nor in the Eutychian sense, of the change of the human mature into the divine, in which they fancy it will be swallowed up, and God will be all; but Christ will always continue as a man; he went up to heaven as such, and he will return as a man, and be visible to all in the human nature, and in that be the object of the wonderful vision of the saints to all eternity: nor in the Arian sense, according to the divine nature, as if he was in that inferior to the Father, when he is equal with him, has all the perfections he has, and the whole fulness of the Godhead dwelling in him; it is much better and safer to understand it as it commonly is of him, as man; though in this sense, he was always subject to his Father, ever since he was incarnate, whereas this seems to respect something peculiar at this time. Others therefore think, that the church, the mystical body of Christ, is here meant, which in all its members, and these both in soul and body, will be presented and delivered up to God; but the words are spoken of him under whom all things are put, which is not true of the church; and though that is sometimes called Christ, yet never the Son; and besides, the church has been always subject to God, though indeed, it will not be in all its members, and in every respect subject until this time: it is best, therefore to understand it of the Son's giving up the account of his mediatorial kingdom and concerns to his Father; when it will appear that he has in the whole of his conduct and administration been subject to him; that he has in all things acted in his name, done all by his power, and to his honour and glory; and now having accomplished all he undertook and was intrusted with, gives in his account, delivers up his charge, and resigns his office; all which will be plain proofs of his subjection: when I say he will resign or lay aside his office as Mediator, my meaning is not that he will cease to be God-man and Mediator; but that he will cease to administer that office as under God, in the manner he now does: he will be the prophet of the church, but he will not teach by his Spirit, and word, and ordinances as now, but will himself be the immediate light of the saints, he will be a priest for ever, the virtue of his sacrifice and intercession will always remain, but he will not plead and intercede as he now does; he will also reign for ever over and among his saints, but his kingdom will not be a vicarious one, or administered as it now is; nor be only in his hands as Mediator, but with God, Father, Son, and Spirit:

http://www.biblestudytools.com/commentaries/gills-exposition-of-the-bible/1-corinthians-15-28.html

TroGunn:

About Jesus being called " father of Eternity". Most translations render it "everlasting Father", a few "the Father of the world to come". This does not mean that he usurps the authority and position of Yahweh, who is “God our Father.” (2 Corinthians 1:2) The title “Eternal Father” refers to Christ's kingly power and authority to give humans the prospect of eternal life on earth. (John 11:25, 26) The legacy of our first parent, Adam, was death. Jesus, the last Adam, “became a life-giving spirit.” (1 Corinthians 15:22, 45; Romans 5:12, 18) Just as Jesus, the Eternal Father, will live forever, so obedient humans will enjoy the benefits of his fatherhood eternally.

And it is in the future tense. Jesus was not called "eternal" when Isaiah wrote, but in the future he "will be called" "Mighty God" and "Eternal father." One could never say that Yahweh "will be called” Mighty God or Eternal Father since he already is.

Who exalted Jesus to this position of Eternal Father? It is GOD (Yahweh) - "God exalted him to his own right hand as Prince and Savior that he might give repentance and forgiveness " Ac.5:31 -33). Christ could not give "life" to others as a "father" until his God "granted" him the power - "For as the Father has life in himself, so he has granted the Son to have life in himself" - John 5:26; 6:57). No one would have to grant Almighty God this power (Ps 36:9; Ac 17:25-28). Almighty God "by nature" has always been Eternal Father and Savior. But, according to the Scriptures, Jesus had to be "exalted" to that position by his God, Yahweh.



You really need to read the Bible more and stop this drivel. Clearly Jesus is a different personality from Yahweh. Knowing the truth about BOTH personalities and acting on such knowledge is the basis for salvation - "Now this is eternal life: that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent". (John 17:3)

Enough points have been made in this thread to show the untruth about the Trinity teaching and it's pagan roots. There's nothing much more to be said.

http://www.ucg.org/booklet/god-trinity/greek-philosophys-influence-trinity-doctrine/

http://www.ucg.org/booklet/god-trinity/how-ancient-trinitarian-gods-influenced-adoption-trinity/

The hebrew literally says "Father of Eternity", eternity has no begining or end so if Jesus is or will be called "Father of Eternity" that means in the hebrew language He has no begining or end. In the bible in the hebrew culture names are given to tell or reveal something about the thing or person so named, the name reveal or tells the information on the thing or person especially when given by God Himself. So as The "Father of Eternity", Jesus has no begining or end, therefore He is Yahweh God.

ijawkid:

Because he is GOD......

That is one intrinsic Ñature of the almighty.....

He can't be seen.....its an impossibilty........

No flesh can contain the almighty...that is who he is...........no man can see GOD.....that's who GOD is....

And for your info........when Je§us died,everything about Jesus died(100%) for 3days........

Both Je§us' human and divine nature were in that grave for 3 good days.....

Don't mis-Ínterprete the scriptures with your human nature and God nature analogy.....

The bible says 100% Jesus died for 3days,not a part of JÉsus........shikena....

You still haven't answered my questions you are just arguing in circles.

All that mean is that God in His God nature can't die, but you still have not explain why can't God enter into His creation take on mortal human flesh in addition to His God nature have His human nature to die but His God nature not to die which will not in anyway violate Numbers 23:19 because as far as where His God nature is concern He never died? Why can't it happened? What prevents Him from doing such?

Where in the bible did you get your "100% Jesus died for 3days"? It was His human nature that died not His God nature.

ijawkid:

SMH!!!!.....

I just need a scripture that will say Jesus is all knowing now that he is in the heavens.....

I already showed you revelations 1:1 to add to my arsenal of Jesus not all-knowing......

exactly the same thing Jesus told his apostles is still want is going on in heaven....

Jesus can't do a single thing on his own originality,except what the Father tells Him......

JÉsus many times has said ""what I hear is what I speak""

It has nothing to do with his humanity.....Jesus has always been learning fro his Father b4 the universe was created....that Is what you and your colleagues fail to understand.....


Yahweh who is the all knowing God still supplies knowledge and revelations to his son and servant right down till today as we speak.........

And Yahweh would be the one to give the go ahead for Jesus to come squash satans system....

Why??

Because Yahweh is the almighty....

Jesus is like an army general waiting for the ""go ahead"" command to strike........

It is Yahweh who exalted Jesus and gave Jesus kingdoms and power.....so Jesus must act under Yahwehs instructions and directions........

Read 1 corinthians 15:24-28.........

Jesus is not all knowing.........

You are yet to use a scripture to prove that............

The bible has so much verses to prove
That Jesus is not all-knowing.....but you have being using the ""his humanity limited his knowledge"" excuse.........but you are the same person who says Jesus is 100 percent God and man.....contradiction!!!!!!!!!........

You anti-Trinitarians have failed to deal with scriptures the we put forth to you all that show that Jesus is God, you all just ignored them as if they don't exist, you all are very dishonest. For example John 20:28 (New International Version (©1984)) "Thomas said to him, "My Lord and my God!", Thomas correctly called Jesus God.
John 5:18 (New International Version (©1984)) "For this reason the Jews tried all the harder to kill him; not only was he breaking the Sabbath, but he was even calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God." Jesus revealed to the Jews that He was equal to God, and they understood that.

If everything that was created and made were all created and made by Jesus then how could Jesus have being created unless He created Himself which is nonsense, Colossians 1:16 and John 1:3? Therefore He is Yahweh God Almighty.

If Jesus is not God then what is the name that Matthew 28:19 speak of that is shared by all three persons in the Godhead?

How do you explain 2 Peter 1:1 (New International Version) "Simon Peter, a servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who through the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ have received a faith as precious as ours", and Titus 2:13 (New International Version) "while we wait for the blessed hope—the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ"?

All these passages above show that Jesus is God, and God is all knowing therefore Jesus is all knowing. Simple and logical but in your all dishonesty you all just ignore all these passages and the others as well.

Genesis 19:24 (English Standard Version (©2001)) "Then the LORD (Yahweh) rained on Sodom and Gomorrah sulfur and fire from the LORD (Yahweh) out of heaven." If Jesus in His preexistance is not one of the two persons that is referred to as Yahweh here in this passage then tell me who are the two persons here that are referred to as Yahweh? And remember Yahweh knows every thing therefore Jesus as Yahweh knows everything, simple and logical. If A = B, and B = C, then A = C. Plain and simple logic.

John 21:17 also says Jesus knows everything.

If someone tells me something to tell someone else how does that prove that I don't already know of that thing that I am told to tell someone else? Explain that to me. Haven't anyone ever told you anything that you didn't already know of or about (and to tell someone else of or about it)? Where is your all logic?

1 corinthians 15:24-28 is in harmony with what we Trinitarians are saying of The Son's subjection to The Father.

Obediant children are all subject to their parents yet the children and parents all have the same human nature. The Trinity is one "what" (Yahweh God Almighty) and three "whos" (three persons).

Like always you all are going to ignore all of the above in your all dishonesty.

ijawkid:

Another hogwash.....

I need you to quote scriptures to back up this thing you wrote.......

Jesus mentioned the angels along with him as not knowing when the end will come except the Father....

How come the angels who were real persons part of the gist ,but the holy spirit who is purported to be a person and the 3rd person in the trinity not be in that discussion??I smell confusion and absurdity..!!!!!.......

How come were the angels involved??

My bro you got no way to explain this.......

Does the holy spirit if its a person know when the end will come??

If Yes,open just one scripture to prove it.....we already know Jesus doesn't know...

If the Holy Spirit is God, why didn't he know the time of Christ's return?


Matthew 24:36; Mark 13:32
1."But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father alone," (Matt. 24:36).
2."But of that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but the Father alone," (Mark 13:32).

There are two possible answers here. First, Jesus is both God and man (John 1:1,14; 20:28; Col. 2:9) and during His ministry in Jerusalem, He was cooperating with the limitations of being a man. As a man, Jesus walked and talked. As God He was worshipped (Matt. 14:33; 28:9; Heb. 1:6), prayed to (Zech. 13:9; 1 Cor. 1:2), etc. This is called the Hypostatic Union.

Since he was operating as a man, under the law (Gal. 4:4), it might very well be that Jesus was referencing the Father as the proper sovereign as only as a good Jew would have done.

Second, cultural context is very important. This passage is about Jesus' return which included getting the bride, the church and then the wedding feast would occur.


"Let us rejoice and be glad and give the glory to Him, for the marriage of the Lamb has come and His bride has made herself ready,8 And it was given to her to clothe herself in fine linen, bright and clean; for the fine linen is the righteous acts of the saints. 9 And he *said to me, "Write, ‘Blessed are those who are invited to the marriage supper of the Lamb," (Rev. 19:7-9).

If we were to look at the cultural context, we can get a much better understanding of what was Jesus may have been alluding to when he said that only the Father knows.

In that historical and cultural context when a man was going to marry a woman, it was usually prearranged. The bridegroom would be living with his family and he would begin to build an addition onto his father's house where he and his future wife would live. It was the custom for the father of the home to be the one who designated when the addition was finished. This meant that only the father knew when the son would be told to go get the bride. But, does this mean that the son would not know when he had to go to get the bride? Not necessarily, and this is why.

A wedding was a community affair where many many people would be invited. This required advance notice so that people could allot the necessary time to attend the wedding and wedding feast. This means that some would have to put their animals away for the day, not work in the field that day, not have business dealings that day, et cetera. In a culture where there is no Internet, phone, or radio, things were done well in advance so that people could plan ahead.

Furthermore, a wedding feast also meant that large amounts of food would have to be prepared in order for all the guests to have something to eat. These kinds of arrangements were not done on the spur of the moment. The arrangements were done weeks, sometimes months in advance. Therefore, to alleviate anyone missing the wedding feast due to a spontaneous invitation that they could not attend, arrangements were made well in advance.

But, in order to maintain the respect and dignity of the father's place in the home, it would naturally be said "that only the father knows" when it would be time for the son to go get the bride. This did not necessitate that the son did not know because the community would have to know within a reasonable degree of accuracy when the wedding would occur. Therefore, Jesus may have been alluding to the phraseology housed in the wedding and wedding feast culture that did not necessarily mean he did not know or the Holy Spirit did not know the time of his return.

http://carm.org/bible-difficulties/matthew-mark/if-holy-spirit-god-why-didnt-he-know-time-christs-return


Does Jesus now know when he is coming back? Or is this still only God's knowledge as stated in Matt. 24:36 and Mark 13:32?


Thanks for your question. I think it’s a good one, and a very important one to answer correctly, especially in the light of some current false teaching, which claims that even God doesn't know all things in the future.

The critical issue, I think, is this: If Jesus is fully God as well as fully human, then how is it that He can be ignorant of anything, since God is omniscient or all-knowing? One might conclude that Jesus did not know all at the time of His birth, and during His childhood. I find the translation of Luke 2:40 in the NET Bible insightful, for it reads:


40 And the child grew and became strong, filled with wisdom, and the favor of God was upon him.


Later on in Luke chapter 2 we read,

Luke 2:46-47


46 After three days they found him in the temple courts, sitting among the teachers, listening to them and asking them questions. 47 And all who heard Jesus were astonished at his understanding and his answers.


This translation avoids the suggestion that Jesus was not all-knowing. The question you have raised is a bit different: "Are there things that God the Father knows, but of which the Son is ignorant?" I found this answer from the Bible Knowledge Commentary (on Matthew 24:36) less than satisfactory:


"The precise moment of the Lord’s return cannot be calculated by anyone. When the Lord spoke these words, that information was said to be known by only the Father. Christ was obviously speaking from the vantage of His human knowledge (cf. Luke 2:52), not from the standpoint of His divine omniscience." [Walvoord, John F., and Zuck, Roy B., The Bible Knowledge Commentary, (Wheaton, Illinois: Scripture Press Publications, Inc.) 1983, 1985.]


The same explanation is given for Mark 13:32:


"This openly expressed limitation on Jesus' knowledge affirms His humanity. In His Incarnation Jesus voluntarily accepted human limitations, including this one (cf. Acts 1:7), in submission to the Father’s will (cf. John 4:34)."[Walvoord, John F., and Zuck, Roy B., The Bible Knowledge Commentary, (Wheaton, Illinois: Scripture Press Publications, Inc.) 1983, 1985.]


If you find this explanation satisfactory, then you need not look further. I find the explanation somewhat less than compelling. It suggests that Jesus is somehow a divided person, with a human side and with a divine side. In the New Testament I see Him as one person, both divine and human. How, then, can we say that Jesus knew the day and hour on his divine side, but not on his human side? Too many times in the New Testament we read of Jesus "knowing" things that only God could know (See John 6:64; Matthew 12:25; Luke 6:8; 11:17).

In context of Matthew's gospel, the Lord's disciples were taken with the splendor of the temple (24:1), but Jesus told them, in effect, not to get too attached to them, because they would all be destroyed (24:2). The disciples then asked Jesus to tell them when these things would happen, and when the end of the age would come (24:3). Jesus did not shrug His shoulders and say, "I don’t know." Instead, Jesus gave many details concerning the last times (24:4ff.). Jesus did not want His disciples to be ignorant of the last times, either, lest they be deceived. While Jesus did not reveal the precise time of His return to His disciples, He did make it clear (not just here, but elsewhere in the gospels and Acts 1) that the end would not come immediately. He described many of the signs that would precede His return to the earth. If the disciples of our Lord listened carefully to the words of the Master, they would know the "season" of His coming. My point in all of this is that if Jesus was ignorant (in the dark) about the end times, how could He be so specific in giving so many details? The point of His teaching in Matthew 24 was to "be ready." Because they did not to know the precise time of the Lord's return they were to be watchful and attentive.

The specific day of His return was not made known to the apostles, nor to the angels. The wise servant is the one who is watching for the Master's return, and who is working for his Master when He returns.

In what sense, then, does the Son not "know" about the "hour" of the Lord's return? In the Gospel of John, Jesus repeatedly states that He will not act independently of the Father. As in His temptation, Jesus refuses to act independently of the Father. This is a part of His submission to the Father (see, for example, John 8:28; 12:49-50; 14:31). Jesus speaks and acts only as the Father has directed and instructed Him.

Now let us consider the term rendered "know" in Matthew 24:36 and Mark 13:32. In the Septuagint -- the Greek translation of the Old Testament -- the same Greek word oida is used to translate the Hebrew word for "know" in Genesis 18:19:

Genesis 18:19


19 "I have chosen [literally "known"] him, so that he may command his children and his household after him to keep the way of the Lord by doing what is right and just. Then the Lord will give to Abraham what he promised him."


In Jeremiah 1:5 God's choice of Jeremiah while still in the womb is described by the same Hebrew word for "know," although the Greek word used in the Septuagint is different than oida.

One may also wish to consider the use of oida in Matthew 25:12:

Matthew 25:12


12 But he replied, 'I tell you the truth, I do not know you!' The NET Bible


Surely this means something more like, "You are not one of my guests" (i.e. you are not one of my chosen guests), rather than, "I don't have any idea who you are, I've never seen or heard of you before."

It is my opinion that Jesus is using this word "to know" in two different ways in Matthew and Mark. Jesus is saying, on the one hand, that His disciples cannot, should not, and will not "know" the precise day or hour of His coming. On the other hand, Jesus is using the same word (to know) with reference to His submission to the Father in regard to the timing of His return. He is saying, I believe, "It is not my place as the Son to determine or to announce the time of my coming " that is an aspect of My Father's role in the Trinity, as the Father." The bottom line is that the disciples have a fixation on knowing the exact time of our Lord's return. Jesus is saying, in effect, "It is none of your business, and in a sense it is not mine to tell you, either. I will come when it is the Father's time for Me to come. For me to announce the time of my coming in advance is to steal the Father's thunder." It is not that He does not know, or cannot know this day, but that this is not consistent with His role as the Son.

I am sure that some may differ with me on this explanation, but I find it within the boundaries of the use of the term, and within the boundaries of biblical theology.

I think that it is dangerous to conclude that God knows something that the Son does not, when both are God, and both are omniscient.

http://bible.org/question/does-jesus-now-know-when-he-coming-back-or-still-only-gods-knowledge-stated-matt-2436-and-m

ijawkid:

What??....

What do you mean??

Unlike you anti-trinitarians when I am wrong I admit openly that I am wrong, and adopt that which is right.

frosbel:


[size=13pt]God is not a man[/size], that he should lie,[size=13pt]nor a son of man[/size], that he should change his mind. Does he speak and then not act? Does he promise and not fulfill? - Numbers 23:19

All that mean is that God in His God nature can't die, but you still have not explain why can't God enter into His creation take on mortal human flesh in addition to His God nature have His human nature to die but His God nature not to die which will not in anyway violate Numbers 23:19 because as far as where His God nature is concern He never died? Why can't it happened? What prevents Him from doing such?

TroGunn:

There is only one Almighty God, Yahweh, the Most High (Ps 83:18). Jesus is not the Almighty God.

Now about Zech 12:10 "They will look on me, the one they have pierced". Obviously they did not literally pierce God, who was in heaven and whom Jesus spoke to when he was dying. (Matt. 27:46 - "About the ninth hour Jesus cried out in a loud voice, "Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani?"--which means, "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?""; Luke 23:46 - "Jesus called out with a loud voice, "Father, into your hands I commit my spirit." When he had said this, he breathed his last." ) God could not die, and then resurrect himself. (Ps. 90:2 - "Before the mountains were born or you brought forth the earth and the world, from everlasting to everlasting you are God." )
Yet as Jesus Christ was Yahweh’s representative, in piercing Jesus they could be said to be piercing Yahweh. When sending out his disciples to preach Jesus said: “The one who receives you receives me, and the one who receives me receives the one who sent me.” - Matt. 10:40.This shows that in receiving Jesus we receive Yahweh who sent him. In like manner, to pierce Jesus is to pierce Yahweh who sent him. It does not prove Jesus and Jehovah are one, any more than it proves Jesus and his disciples are literally one.

In a different case God showed that to reject his representative (Samuel) is to reject Him - “They have not rejected thee, but they have rejected me.” (1 Sam. 8:4-7) In rejecting God's representative they rejected God, in effect; but this did not make Samuel one with Yahweh in a trinity.

You guys need to make up your mind on how to explain your Trinity mystery. When it suits you, Jesus and Yahweh are distinct and different personalities. When it doesn't they are one and the same person.

Is Jesus a distinct personality from Yahweh?

A better translation of the hebrew of Isaiah 9:6 is (Young's Literal Translation) "For a Child hath been born to us, A Son hath been given to us, And the princely power is on his shoulder, And He doth call his name Wonderful, Counsellor, Mighty God, Father of Eternity, Prince of Peace." Jesus is call "Father of Eternity" which is a hebrew idiom for saying that Jesus is eternal. You have not dealt with that. Why?

The Father is Yahweh, The Son is Yahweh, The Spirit is Yahweh, yet there is only one Yahweh not three.

frosbel:


[size=13pt]God is not a man[/size], that he should lie,[size=13pt]nor a son of man[/size], that he should change his mind. Does he speak and then not act? Does he promise and not fulfill? - Numbers 23:19

All that mean is that God in His God nature can't die, but you still have not explain why can't God enter into His creation take on mortal human flesh in addition to His God nature have His human nature to die but His God nature not to die which will not in anyway violate Numbers 23:19 because as far as where His God nature is concern He never died? Why can't it happened? What prevents Him from doing such?

ijawkid:

And Yahweh is not Jesus......

Ok learn from this...

Let us review some
major translations
translated by Trinitarian
Greek scholars:

1...they shall look on him
whom they have thrust
through, and they shall
mourn for him (NAB)

2...they will look at the one
whom they stabbed to
death (TEV: Todays
English Version)

3....they will look at the one
whom they have pierced
(The Jerusalem Bible)

4...they shall look on him
whom they stabbed
(Moffatt)

5...they shall look at him
whom they have stabbed
(American Translation,
Goodspeed)

6...when they look on him
whom they have pierced,
they shall mourn for him
(RSV/NRSV)

Do you spot the difference from the NIV you quoted from??

Also let's look at how the apostle John referenced zecharia 12:10...

And again another
Scripture says, "They
shall look to him whom
they pierced." (John
19:37).
The reading of Zechariah
12:10 which John knows is
not "they shall look upon ME"
but "they shall look upon
HIM." (or more literally, "to
whom they pierced.".
Indeed, the reading
"him" (or "whom" instead of
"me" also appears in some
Hebrew manuscripts (F.F.
Bruce, History of the Bible
in English, pages 199, 200,
Lutterworth Press, 1979,
third edition). If one takes
the position that the Holy
Spirit inspired each and
every word which John
wrote, then one also must
insist that the Holy Spirit is
confirming to us which
reading of Zechariah 12:10 is
the correct reading.
Otherwise, one must then
conclude the Holy Spirit
inspired John to quote a
mistaken reading of
Zechariah 12:10.
Even further to the point,
John quotes Psalm 34:20,
"not a bone of his will be
broken." This is a reference
to a human being and John
quotes this verse along with
Zechariah 12:10. It is plainly
evident that John had
humanity, not divinity, in
mind when he quotes these
two verses. In other words,
John quoted both of these
passages in reference to
Jesus as a man. John 19:36
strongly suggests that there
is no possibility that John
himself perceived Zechariah
12:10 as referring to Jesus
as Yahweh in any respect.

Upon further research of Zechariah 12:10 I must say that you are correct, and I am wrong.

ijawkid:

This is one big hogwash..

Can you back what you just said with the bible??

Hw can one be subordinate to his equal??

According to you the Father and the Son are co-equal........

How come do we now have the issue of one being subordinate to the other??

How??

How does that ratify co-equality??

how can an all knowing (Jesus) still be recieveing revelations??I thought they were already stuck in his all knowingness.....

and may I ask::::

Does the holy spirit know when the end will come??it seems Jesus forgot to say anything about the holy spirit when he was telling his apostles that only the Father knew when the end will come........

Does the holy spirit know when d end will come??........

A father and his son are equal as touching their human nature but the son is subordinate to his father in authority and role where the family is concern.
The Holy Spirit as God knows everything Jesus said only The Father knows because in the context of the discussion the conversation it was about Him and The Father only so in context of the discussion about Him and The Father only, in relation to Jesus only, as far as where His human nature is concern, only The Father who is God knows. You have to go with the context of the discussion. He did not forgot The Spirit, The Spirit was not apart of the discussion so there was no need to mention The Spirit plain and simple. Context, Context, Context.

frosbel:

1. It was never in prophetic scripture that God will one day die

2. God is immortal and by definition immortal means :

- immunity to death. God has been living forever and will live forever, he alone is immortal , self-existence and ALMIGHTY !

3. A Man, a real MAN had do die to redeem MAN from the curse of SIN.

4. This MAN will be born by a virgin with the Power of the Spirit of GOD as prophesied in scripture

5. He will come from the loins of David

6. To suggest that a part of GOD died while the other part of HIM was alive is insanity gone totally riot and the height of blasphemy.

Why can't God enter into His creation take on mortal human flesh in addition to His God nature have His human nature to die but His God nature not to die? Why can't it happened? What prevents Him from doing such?
In Zechariah 12:1,10 Yahweh prophesied that He will be fatally pierced, Revelation 1:7 says it was Jesus, so Yahweh of Zechariah 12:1,10 and Jesus of Revelation 1:7 are one and the same person.

frosbel:





Sorry this scripture clearly shows that Jesus acknowledges GOD as his father and GOD, please what is your point ?

frosbel remember John 20:28 (New International Version (©1984)) "Thomas said to him, "My Lord and my God!", Thomas correctly called Jesus God.
John 5:18 (New International Version (©1984)) "For this reason the Jews tried all the harder to kill him; not only was he breaking the Sabbath, but he was even calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God." Jesus revealed to the Jews that He was equal to God, and they understood that.

[quote author=frosbel][/quote]

A better translation of the hebrew of Isaiah 9:6 is (Young's Literal Translation) "For a Child hath been born to us, A Son hath been given to us, And the princely power is on his shoulder, And He doth call his name Wonderful, Counsellor, Mighty God, Father of Eternity, Prince of Peace." Jesus is call "Father of Eternity" which is a hebrew idiom for saying that Jesus is eternal.

In Zechariah 12:1 Yahweh is speaking and Yahweh say concerning His scond coming in verse 10 "They will look on me, the one they have pierced", Revelation 1:7 (New International Version) "Look, he is coming with the clouds,”
and “every eye will see him,
even those who pierced him”;
and all peoples on earth “will mourn because of him.”
So shall it be! Amen."
If Yahweh here is not Jesus then explain how that is not so.

So frosbel, you now believe in more than one god, The Father is a god and The Son is a god, Since The Father called Jesus God does that mean Jesus is truly God? Satan is a false god.

ijawkid:

Because as the Boss of all boss Yahweh has servants and messangers he sends.....

Starting from Jesus to the angels and to the rest of us.......

We are all servants of Yahweh........

And also if Yahweh comes to the earth we will all die...because no flesh can see God and yet live....how many times do I have to tell you??

Yahweh is the most High...he can't be seen...

You still have not explained, why can't The Almighty enter into His creation, and take on a human nature, and become a man or be made a man,You still have not explained why can't The Almighty enter into His creation, and take on a human nature, and become a man or be made a man, have humans to see Him as a man, and they not die for seeing Him as a man, and The Almighty dying as far as where His human nature is concerned? Why? why? Why? What prevents the Almighty from do just that? Why can't God come as well?
Didn't people in the Old Testament saw God and did not die, didn't Abraham, Moses, Gideon, Samson's parents all saw God and did not die? They did saw God and not die because God veiled His glory to their eyes. Its is no one can see God in His full glory and live.

ijawkid:

Are you suffering from amnesia??

You just said Jesus was fully God and fully man...that infact Jesus was God the almighty in human flesh.......

My freind you either choose Jesus was a 100 percent perfect man when on earth and not God,or u choose he was fully God and man and also contradict yourself....

Jesus didn't say his god nature knew when the end will come while is earthly nature didn't know,... 100 percent Jesus said he didn't know,but only the Father knows.......

Jesus isn't all knowing.....read revelations 1:1.....and see where Jesus still recieves revelations from the Father.....


That is the reason why Jesus told his listeners back then that what ever he sees the Father ,so he does....

Jesus learns from his Father...

An all knowing being does not learn .........

Why can't Jesus be fully 100% God, and fully 100% man
Rev. 1:1 doesn't mean Jesus doesn't know everything because Jesus recieved revelations from the Father. Jesus didn't receive revelation from The Father because He didn't know everything. He received it to give to His servants showing that in The Trinity He is subordinate as The Son to The Father read the passage properly.

ijawkid:

Oh adam was before eve,but u disagree Yahweh was b4 Jesus.....you and your cohorts claim Jesus existed simulteneously the same time with his God and Father (Yahweh)...

You see yourself??

Jesus in His God nature as God existed simulteneously with The Father, so whats the problem with that?

ijawkid:

It seems u have forgotten that the almighty cannot be seen and cannot die.....did it escape your thoughts??

Did it??

The almighty does not need to come in human form because he is the almighty.....

No man can see the almighty and yet live...that is why the almighty sends his representatives.......

Now can you explain why the almighty who came to the earth didn't knw when the end will come??did he suffer from amnesia??

Jesus didn't create himself,he was created by Yahweh his God........

That is why Jesus is the image of Yahweh just as you and I are........

You still have not explained, why can't The Almighty enter into His creation, and take on a human nature, and become a man or be made a man, have humans to see Him as a man and they not die for seeing Him as a man, and The Almighty dying as far as where His human nature is concerned? Why? why? Why? What prevents the Almighty from do just that?

Jesus as far as where His human nature is concern did not know everything including the time of His return. But in His God nature as God He knew everything including the time of His return

ijawkid:

It seems u have forgotten that the almighty cannot be seen and cannot die.....did it escape your thoughts??

Did it??

The almighty does not need to come in human form because he is the almighty.....

No man can see the almighty and yet live...that is why the almighty sends his representatives.......

Now can you explain why the almighty who came to the earth didn't knw when the end will come??did he suffer from amnesia??

Jesus didn't create himself,he was created by Yahweh his God........

That is why Jesus is the image of Yahweh just as you and I are........

You still have not explained, why can't The Almighty enter into His creation, and take on a human nature, and become a man or be made a man,You still have not explained why can't The Almighty enter into His creation, and take on a human nature, and become a man or be made a man, have humans to see Him as a man, and they not die for seeing Him as a man, and The Almighty dying as far as where His human nature is concerned? Why? why? Why? What prevents the Almighty from do just that?

Jesus as far as where His human nature is concern did not know everything including the time of His return. But in His God nature as God He knew everything including the time of His return.

[quote author=frosbel][/quote]

When you can't defeat something or prove it to be wrong you just simple call it "absolute gibberish !!!!" that will do the sleight of hand trick non-argument. Frosbel you have mastered the sleight of hand trick non-argument art.

ijawkid:

But adam was before eve....right??

And adam was greater than eve......

Did your brain not remind you of that??

and when adam and eve are said to be one flesh what does it mean??

Start explaining...fast!!!!!

Go to page 9 at 4:05pm On Oct 10, and you will see where I address the meaning of one flesh. Adam was before Eve, and in authority he was greater than Eve.

ijawkid:

Jesus was begotten in every way as far as Yahweh is concerned.......

Can the almighty be a man or be made a man??

Better go read your bible bro.....

How can God not know when the end will come but another God knew.......??

Better start thinking....

If everything that was created and made were all created and made by Jesus then how could Jesus have being created unless He created Himself which is nonsense, Colossians 1:16 and John 1:3?

If Jesus is not God then what is the name that Matthew 28:19 speak of, and how do you explain 2 Peter 1:1 (New International Version) "Simon Peter, a servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who through the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ have received a faith as precious as ours", and Titus 2:13 (New International Version) "while we wait for the blessed hope—the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ"?

Why can't The Almighty enter into His creation and take on a human nature, and become a man or be made a man? Why? why? Why?

Jesus as far as where His human nature is concern did not know everything including the time of His return. But in His God nature as God He knew everything including the time of His return.

frosbel:

olodo rapata, so according to your logic, God begat GOD ?

As far as where the human Jesus is concern, Yes God begat God because Jesus was both God and man.
I don't have any logic, logic is from God.

tidytim:


So ADAM + EVE = 1 Personality ?

Dullard !!!

ADAM + EVE = 1 flesh.

Why something so simple is so hard for you all antitrinitarians to understand.

tidytim: The Trinity is a Brainwashometer

The trinity is therefore a 'Brainwashometer'. If the victim is prepared to believe that one is three and that a father is his own son and that a son is uncreated, then he is prepared to believe anything at all and so he is fully brainwashed. Once he is in this condition, his logic is removed, his objectivity has gone, he is mentally defenceless, so he or his family can be pumped for money, sex, status, worship, whatever the priest wants.

So by making the trinity doctrine the central doctrine of the Roman Catholic faith, that church was auto selecting brainwashed people. The control freak only wants brainwashed people. He cannot permit free thinkers to enter the congregation, they might see through his little game and liberate his brainwashed victims. It is a pleasure to be able to reveal the truth behind this despicable mind game that the Roman Catholic Church has relied on for 1700 years.

http://www.biblecodeintro.com/intro39.html

You are so dreaming, and so deceived by Satan himself.

ijawkid:

Jesus was begotten...
Does that word mean anything to you??

Jesus is the image of the invincible GOD(of which Jesus is not that GOD)....

Any one who is the image of Yahweh is a creation of Yahweh....the same with you and me and adam and all humans that are the image of God(Yahweh)

I know it might sound hard for you to gulp but these are truths that the trinity dogma has made many not accept even when the scripture says so......

When you check out the greek it doesn't say Jesus was begotten. And remember as a human being He was begotten, and in the image of God. But as for His God nature He was, and is God.

ijawkid:

Oh sory bro.....kudos to you.....

It really is madness believing in d trinity

Yet you can't disprove the madness or show it to be wrong.

tidytim:

Do you really believe in the nonsense you just wrote

That God x Father x Son = 1

Foolishness in action !

The nonsense is still away above you, fool.

Its God x God x God = God.

The Father + The Son + The Spirit = 1 God.

Adam + Eve = 1 flesh.

TroGunn:

Not according to your creed : "The Father uncreated; the Son uncreated; and the Holy Ghost uncreated. The Father unlimited; the Son unlimited; and the Holy Ghost unlimited. The Father eternal; the Son eternal; and the Holy Ghost eternal. And yet they are not three eternals; but one eternal. As also there are not three uncreated; nor three infinites, but one uncreated; and one infinite. So likewise the Father is Almighty; the Son Almighty; and the Holy Ghost Almighty. And yet they are not three Almighties; but one Almighty. So the Father is God; the Son is God; and the Holy Ghost is God. And yet they are not three Gods; but one God. So likewise the Father is Lord; the Son Lord; and the Holy Ghost Lord. And yet not three Lords; but one Lord".

From you creed, your Trinity is 1Person/God/Lord/unlimited/Almighty/etc + 1Person/God/Lord/unlimited/Almighty/etc + 1Person/God/Lord/unlimited/Almighty/etc = 1God/Lord/unlimited/Almighty/etc.

The creed is saying The Father, The Son, and The Spirit are one God, one Lord, one Eternal, one Uncreated, one Infinite, one Almighty, and not three that's a triune and not a triplex. Read it again. Remember Adam + Eve (two persons) = one flesh.