₦airaland Forum

Eddygourdo:
hahahahahaha I will keep laughing at you. I can't be found out to have exchanged all this time to a boy beneath me. I dey brag abi. Please send ur full name in a pm to me and let's prove the potency of my bragging. Do it today so you learn a lesson at most by tomorrow. Please ensure its the same on face book to enable people match the pictures in the crime and barbaric section of Nairaland to you. Even better still post ur pic and full name here. It would give a better exposure of my bragging. At least there o evidence I warned you to desist and stop mentioning ur betters on issues beyond ur reasoning.

I just dropped the gauntlet, pick it up

Smh...... My friend will you shut up your dirty mouth dia..! Look at this demented sewer rat. Ol boy, you dropped what was left of your brain.

Garbage in garage out.....

Eddygourdo:
that should not bother you kiddo. I never defined the light nor will I give you such preserve knowledge meant for more evolved beings. You defined the light from your limited knowledge. You are a buffon. Wat makes your case a terrible one is that you don't realise you a stupidd person. You keep prancing all about nairaland disgracing urself. If you have any pity for ur future self. Change like apc

And the sewer rat continues.......

Eddygourdo:
remember they are mere tools, common mediums of expression so technically should not be potent. You dat is a devil pikin. If I put the rosary on you, you won't catch fire as I hope. Why is that so but if I can see you in real life and I touch you with small omengo. You won't be senile for the next 30years. Hahahahahaha small pikin feeling funky.

The idiot that said he saw the "light" still messing around with what he termed was for illiterates... Smh..

Your stupidity knows no bound..

Eddygourdo:
ha simply cos of wat I wrote you no longer asking that stupid question about my african religion.

Its illiteracy mbok, cos the potency it possess I can tell you how it all comes about. But won't do so lest more penury is added to ur existence.

So from Wat I wrote it was in support of ur point of view? See if you have finished from any school, return ur certificate and use Nepa bill in future. You are a tablarasa

It one of two things. Either you're telling a lie. Hence your agreeing that its the spiritual connotation that is the diety not the artifacts without knowing it . Did the diety seize to perform for its adherents after the artifacts were stolen..? Answer that and see the folly in your assumptions.

But I'm not one to call one a liar without proof. But i will call you a sewer rat cos I have proof. Your post.

People wey sabi no dey brag. Only empty barrel make the loudest noise.

Eddygourdo:
hahahahahaha this boy still hasn't learned. Listen the religious artifacts in ur shrine bear different semblance according to their spiritual connotation. And historical use.

Thus virtually interchangeable. Thus why you regard them as mere tools. Before you suckled any breasts, I saw, I did and I performed. Today I do no such folly no more and I tell you. Ogugu exists in the diet it represents, agwu exists I the deity it represents. If them born you well please, walk into a agwu shrine with slippers and wonder if you wouldn't come out raging mad. My wisdom of today has told me Wat the African religion is all about and thus I abandoned it for illiterates like you.
I follow the light now and thus I also will tell you. Symbolism is very important to who accorded it. The idols where mere art to the colonialists and thus was so and represented nothing else. The idols were god-form to the Africans and they performed as required.

You are a small boy, a baby, thus I don't wanna go I to details of issues beyond you. But Yo prove the strength of ur african worship.

Please go snap ur symbolic tool with ur phone and come show us here on nairaland. If you find that easy to do, then pm me with an apology for ur idiocy you nincompoop and then I will introduce you to a potent african practice. That the thought of snapping it alone should make you a raving mad. Talk less of actually doing so.

Wat is, is not and what appears not be be, is.

Ponder on that and if you grab any sense from it? Would help ur ignorance in future

Lmao...!!!!!...!! Running from pillar to post. Where did I challenge the potency of any diety... Where!?

We're talking about the artifacts no being the actual diety. And here you are still supporting my statement in regards to their symbolic spiritual connotations With your rants.

Clearly I now know that you're suffering from post traumatic colonial syndrome. Linking illiteracy to the same thing you just testified of its potency.

My friend, you're a demented sewer rat for life!!!

Eddygourdo:
what I quoted is exactly what we can all see. Abi I no read well ni. Didn't you say so? Instead of covering ur head in shame ur still asking me. If I mention my ancestral religion of what use is it to proving my earlier assertions. Mr man to not know something nor be interested in knowing is no crime, but to be deluded to think you actually know is a crime and I believe you should be in jail.

Please ur idols are mere tools and tools are interchangeable abi. I have a idol I just molded fitted with WiFi and Bluetooth for quick communication with the gods. Please come and buy it to replace the old " tools" in ur shrine.

Be deceiving urself That the idols in ur shrine aren't more symbolic than mere tools of communication and reference. In the African context they are gods. Oracles, ditties, representations of the different parts of chi.
You are making me waste knowledge on you and I hate doing that

You are trying to hard to actually tell yourself that you're not a dummy. Hence your weak attempts to challenge my intellect.

I gave you specifics of how a traditional artifacts of worship is retired. You still continue to regurgitate classical european rubbish. How can a symbol of a diety becomes the diety. You well so? I asked you, did you practice? If you did not practice/experience any rites or observe then everything you are regurgitating you got from a book or Wikipedia. But to save face, you turn to accusations of me not knowing. Clearly shows your desperation.

The same idiot that said I don't know how his own ancestoral God is worship is eager to throw out "African context" that all worship artifacts are the actual diety..smh

When i called you a demented sewer rat you take offense. But I only speak the truth. And the evidence is in all your post.

Eddygourdo:
black mother and child? Lmao. Ritual only during transition? Lmao., that u have sense? Lmao. Hahahahahaha. You are a case

It's not my fault that you cannot read and comprehend. Keep dodging. There's evidence for all to see...

Eddygourdo:
Why did you stop with the rat reference. I got to ya abi... . You go suffer

Stop deluding yourself. Who did not reply my last reference... It's up there for all to see...

Eddygourdo:
I really had to quote you again. Young man you are trying too hard to appear intelligent. And you are really really not. It's not a bad thing though. Just read ur last paragraph and don't hang urself in shame at such monstrosity. Just learn never to spew such nonsense in public again

Throwing different dodge tactics to save face. You're a complete slowpoke.

Eddygourdo:
hahahahahaha holy moses. Look at me thinking I was talking to a person. Please read the nonsense you streamed together as words. Resend it to me again in a way humans can understand. Black mother and child? My friend are you chatting from Mars or did your spaceship just land? Plus ritual rites are only performed when a priest passes away and a new priest comes on board? Oh my, I just have to say it. You are a stupid fellow. Please before you become afflicted for claiming a religion you k ow absolutely nothing about. I suggest really zip it for ur own good.

Face you studies. Leave matters beyond you for your betters. I have told you this earlier yet you keep mentioning me.

What have you said in this your gibberish you replied with. Dodging the question asked. You Cannot debunk my statement. Instead you give me more gibberish.

My friend will you Sharrap dia!

Eddygourdo:
have you seen a sewer rat before? If you haven't, look closely at a mirror and smile. That's how they look like exactly. Carbon copy
For the demented part. Read ur posts to me for clarification on that definition

And the demented sewer rat continues...

Eddygourdo:
and traditional african practise is universal in conduct abi. Aren't you ashamed of urself. You don't know where I am from but u assume my traditional religious practise has same practise with urs. Please since ur practice tells you that ur idols are mere tools, it should be good practise to wash the clothes on one, to change the idol once in a while to a newer more modern one equipped with WiFi. If you are scared shitless to do that to a common idol in ur traditional shrine, them you must be nuts to call it a mere tool. The reverence you give to it has made it transcend a mere tool to a diety or God in itself. When a Catholic feels his rosary is old, he discards it and purchases a new one. Do you do same to ur idols oh you traditional idiot

Then mention your ancestoral mode of worship or shut up. If you don't know you ask. A ritual rites occurs if no other priest can carry the legacy left behind by the previous preist. Nothing is discarded. History is preserved within the shrine or relocated. It serves as a point of reference for preist to do other inquiries.

If a Catholic decides to throw away his old rosary. That's makes it worthless from the beginning. Even the muslims will burn an old Koran to ashes. They just don't discard it.

When was the last time a Catholic washed his clothes in front of the image of the black mother and child. Are they scared shitless? My friend stop exposing your enormous stu.pidity here.

Eddygourdo:
and after telling you the God I worship how will that improve ur mental capacity to grasp where I am coming from. I have explained in the simplest a primary school pupil can understand, yet you fail to grasp meaning from it. I can't break ur head and put it inside na. So go read my earlier posts. Even the answer to the question you posited is there.

You simply dodge the question.

Simple question, which ancestoral mode of worship did you practice. If you did not practice. Then it's settled that the knowledge you have of ancestoral God's is from books not from practice. That in it self exposes your folly on the subject matter.

It's a simple fact... A traditionalist will never call the medium he uses to connect to the forces of nature as his Actual God. Only mentally inept colonial monkeys do.

Eddygourdo:
hahahahahaha e pain am. Only the immature type as you did above when they can't match intellectually in a discourse

Says the demented sewer rat...

Eddygourdo:
you this kid, you really dull. If you couldn't understand what was written in primary school format. Then you need to face ur books lest poverty ruins ur future. Don't argue with ur betters

See this demented sewer rat Feeling funky. I don't need to know you before I know that you're beneath me.

Eddygourdo:
laughs, the couple of books hurt ur poor ego I see. Listen kiddo go and educate urself. Broaden ur horizon beyond Wikipedia and gobbling down stories the colonialists fed you in outdated books. If you learn to think for urself you would understand the folly you posted

I asked you to mention the name of the traditional God you personally worshiped through/observe their mode of worship so I can deduct if you're speaking from experience or regurgitating garbage from the books you read. Stop dodging the question.

I don't need books or Wikipedia. I adhere to traditional mode of worship growing up/observe festivals and rites. "Akuebe" to be precise in warri Nigeria.

Motherfuvker! Which did you practice. Fuvk what you read is what ancestoral mode of worship did you practice.? If you've never practice then whose ego is deflated in what they read and regurgitate.

Let's see who is stuck on colonial mentality. That's depicts his ancestoral mode of worship as idol worshipping...

I dey wait....

Eddygourdo:
that is one scenario that explains some stolen artifacts, others would probably have been stolen from other kingdoms asides the bini Kingdom, others were likely taken from shrines and lastly from the home of commoners. Art and artefact abound. Many of little importance and some of high value. The Cockerell is questions cannot be proven to a fact you have been from the story you just gave and thus could have come from somewhere else. Many artifacts where gotten from archealogical excavations of burial sites of Kings. Kings where known to have been buried with their treasures. Even great warriors and wrestlers of the time were buried with artifacts.

This points out my earlier comment. Why did the artisans make the artifacts. For prized possession? For worship? Or for aesthetics. Being that powerful men where buried with their idols in those days. Is it thus surprising their graves where filled with artifacts eg their gods?

Story story STORY... Present your evidence of colonialist ravaging the homes of commoners and taking great treasures. Or forever remain daft.

Eddygourdo:
now I will explain to you in simple terms you can understand. The rosary when I the market place, is simply an object to be bought and sold. When a Catholic buys it. He uses it for prayers. But first he blesses it by the priest. By virtue of using it for prayers, it's a mere tool. Then after prayers thus same Catholic is about to fornicate. He ensures he removes this rosary from his neck in order not to offend God, the symbolism of his action is that God lives in that rosary, this same Catholic decides to travel or retire for bed at night. And before he does that he ensures he wears this so called rosary for protection. He would argue that evil spirits cannot hate hi so far he is wearing it. The symbolism of that means God is in the rosary and would protect him. Thus the rosary has been considered a tool and a diety all by the same person in different scenarios that suit his wants. Therefore the symbolism of that rosary to the wearer is that God is with him.

This is very much the same as the common idol in the shrine, it's a tool bearing semblance with a chi and also symbolises the presence of god. Thus from the moment of its use it is treated as a god, sacrifices offered up it in symbolism with offerings to their god, plus the abode of the idol treated sacred in reference to their god.

Young man in african religion there are many parts of the chi. Thus many parts are represented by distinct idol form which represent their identity with their chi and most times this images show conformity in different climes in Africa.

I hope this is simple enough to understand

Clearly you are regurgitating...

Your initial statement was terming the artifacts as the "Gods". I corrected you that it's not a God, but a medium of worship. And a medium can be used anyhow the practitioners sees fit. Giving sacrifice to the Gods via the artifacts does not make the artifacts a God. An outsider cannot come and tell you how to manage your affairs.

People light candles in front of statues in churches. Does that mode of sacrifice make the statue their God. The adherents of the Koran have killed people who desecrate a Koran does that make the book their God.

So it's settled. Your initial post was daft. It clearly shows that you don't understand or know the purpose of the artifacts in relation to actual worship. You were simply running your mouth because you read a couple of books.

Bollinger:
I assume the "original" s.tupid owners in you post are the colonialists, right?

No! Go back and read the post I was replying.

How can the original owners be colonialist '!?

Bollinger:
Almost every human being is born with some form of disadvantage or the other. Our job as human beings is to rise above those difficulties. Your post can be akin to a thief who blames his profession to the lack of education he had, or the that he wants to feed his kids. That is the thought process of lazy people who never take responsibility for their actions or the the lack of it.

Kindly clarify. I don't understand your post... I hope you read the post I was replying.

Chief S.O. Alonge – History of Benin
Home | History of Benin | Early Photography in Nigeria | S.O. Alonge: The Early Years | Ideal Studio, Benin City | Picturing a New Society | Ideal Studio Portraits | Ideal Studio Setting | Royal Court Photography | Commemorative Objects

The kingdom of Benin, home of the Edo-speaking peoples, is located in the tropical rain forest region of what is now Nigeria. An oba, or king, and his court have, from around 1300 C.E., governed the kingdom from Benin City, the capital. Within the kingdom, specialized artists belonged to guilds with hereditary membership and worked solely for the oba. Today, the current oba, Oba Erediauwa I, retains a court and employs royal artists to produce the courtly arts of bronze casting and ivory carvings.

Archaeological excavations, oral histories kept by court and guild officials, narratives, and trade records from European travelers—as well as thousands of works of art—reveal the ancient history of Benin. In the early 1600s, Dutch geographer Olfert Dapper described the royal palace of the Benin court as having “beautiful and long square galleries about as big as the exchange at Amsterdam, some bigger than others, resting on wooden pillars, covered from top to bottom with cast copper, on which deeds of war and battle scenes are carved.” Later travelers’ accounts did not mention the plaques; the British, however, found them in a storehouse when they sacked the palace in 1897 during the Benin punitive expedition.

Commemorative head of a king
Edo artist, Benin kingdom court style, Nigeria
Commemorative head of a king
19th century
Copper alloy
38.1 x 24.4 x 27 cm (15 x 9 5/8 x 10 5/8 in.)
Gift of Joseph H. Hirshhorn to the Smithsonian Institution in 1966, 85-19-7

An emphasis on elaborate regalia is typical of 19th-century Benin art. Cast objects are often large and heavy as well. Symbols of royal power and sacrifice—kola nuts, elephant trunks, leopards, and mythical fish—decorate the base of the head.
Bell
Edo artist, Benin kingdom court style, Nigeria
Bell
18th century
Copper alloy, iron
21.6 x 12.1 x 12.1 cm (8 1/2 x 4 3/4 x 4 3/4 in.)
Gift of Joseph H. Hirshhorn to the Smithsonian Institution in 1979, 85-19-22

This type of bell, identified by its distinctive four-sided, flat-topped shape, was once placed on an ancestral altar in the royal palace. Its shape is thought to resemble the palace roof turrets. Benin warriors wore smaller versions of these bells on their chests, as can be seen on the plaques that formerly covered the piers in the palace courtyard. The sound of the bells identified Benin warriors in battle, served as a sign of the spiritual protection of the king, and spread terror among the enemy.
Royal Plaques of the Benin Kingdom
This corpus of reliefs represents the most impressive and unique art treasure from the continent of Africa. Each plaque is individually modeled and cast. Some plaques depict scenes, such as battles, hunts, or court ceremonies. Most have one or two male figures in court regalia. Today, over 900 plaques reside in public and private collections.

British Punitive Expedition of 1897
Over the centuries, Benin had years of greatness and suffered times of turmoil, but a single event divides ancient from modern Benin. James Phillips, a British official in the Niger Coast Protectorate, led an unarmed expedition to Benin City in January 1897 to enforce trade agreements and a ban on reported human sacrifice. To prevent the British party from interfering with annual royal rituals, some chiefs ordered, against Oba Ovonramwen’s wishes, warriors to attack the expedition. Six British officials and almost 200 African porters were killed.

England responded immediately, mounting a “punitive expedition” to capture Benin City. The palace was burned and looted in February 1897, and the oba was exiled to Old Calabar. To break the power of the monarchy and to end ritual practices, the British confiscated all of the royal art treasures, giving some to individual officers but taking most to auction in London to pay for the cost of the expedition.

Plaque
Edo artist, Benin kingdom court style, Nigeria
Plaque
Mid-16th to 17th century
Copper alloy
45.6 x 35 x 8.9 cm (17 15/16 x 13 3/4 x 3 1/2 in.)
Purchased with funds provided by the Smithsonian Collections Acquisition Program, 82-5-3

Musicians and a court page holding a fanlike sword (eben) flank a high-ranking warrior, possibly a war chief or the oba. The half figures depict Portuguese soldiers or traders.

Eddygourdo:
and you have evidences that linked all stolen art to homes of Kings and not commoners? Nigerian education is very limited as it makes people not to think for themselves. Please Mr man. Thousands of art abound from different ages. And diverse climes. The art is the key and it was stolen from wherever they were found. It's not surprising most were found in Kings palaces or in ransacked shrines. Well my mention of the shrine retaliates my earlier post on gods

1897
Over the centuries, Benin had years of greatness and suffered times of turmoil, but a single event divides ancient from modern Benin. James Phillips, a British official in the Niger Coast Protectorate, led an unarmed expedition to Benin City in January 1897 to enforce trade agreements and a ban on reported human sacrifice. To prevent the British party from interfering with annual royal rituals, some chiefs ordered, against Oba Ovonramwen’s wishes, warriors to attack the expedition. Six British officials and almost 200 African porters were killed.

England responded immediately, mounting a “punitive expedition” to capture Benin City. The palace was burned and looted in February 1897, and the oba was exiled to Old Calabar. To break the power of the monarchy and to end ritual practices, the British confiscated all of the royal art treasures, giving some to individual officers but taking most to auction in London to pay for the cost of the expedition.

Now I agree one has to think from a critical perspective. But could you kindly present your own evidence of Bristish troop ransacking homes of commoners..

Eddygourdo:
and the igboukwu art was found in the home of a king abi. Mr man whatever is housed and it's home revered with a belief that it represents a diety, has superceded a mere medium of expression of that diety. That the molded idols are mere tools so is everything. What matters is Wat is attributed to them. In the African context it's the chi. Man's attempt in creating a semblance with the chi he worships. So oga majority of artifacts with respect to african tradition were gods. To an ignoramus like you, they were mere tools of expression because you feel you have read two or three books, but to the African of the age, that was god.

The Benin masks tell a story people attributed to it, but nevertheless of what purpose was it crafted by the artisans. To tell stories, as a thing of worth to a possible owner, for aesthetic or for worship.

The age was an age of the arts and great men gave gifts of arts to Kings. Thus may have prompted many arts works. But generally the biggest market was the African religion of worshipping idols.

Please young man, that u read two books, learnt think inductively while considering ur reasoning in both objective and subjective contexts. It will help you

This is just pitiful..

If that be the case (african of that age)then you must agree that the image of Christ, the cross and the bible is idol worshipping. The kabal is idol worshipping. Because both parties would be upset if you desecrate this object.

Kindly tell me which african God or idol you worship. So I can deduct if you're speaking from experience or just regurgitating some rubbish you read in a book.

Eddygourdo:
really, look at Wat you typed above. Read it and tell me you aren't ashamed. The artisans of old made artitefacts specifically for what purpose? The time period of the time would suggest an aesthetic use, worship and most importantly source of exchange (barter system). Most of those great artifacts where mainly between two categories which are the second and third I mentioned. Thus my assertions that they are or were gods is not moot young man. Many artifacts transcended between periods of worship, periods of barter and as of today aesthetic as depicted I the Cockerell above.

Now your initial nonsense was about the art been the Gods. Clearly, you're inept of what the art represent in traditional mode of worship. The art is a tool, a medium of worship. The art is not worshipped. This is how daft you sound. It's like saying a rosary is Gods of the Catholic or the statues in the Vatican are worshipped.

Then you went over board with barter...!! Try looking up on a Benin masks and see if it does not tell a story. Mind you the Royal palace was ransacked. Not the homes of commoners.

IndianBwoy:
Bad idea returning it 2 Nigeria. I heard dey destroy shrines n stuffs.

Exactly..!! The destroyers of shrine are the children of Abraham who the same Bristish have brainwashed with self hate....the real owners can maintain it, as long as the zoo keepers give them resources to carry on..

Eddygourdo:
please teach us Wat there were in Africa at the time of their abduction. Defend ur statement

Clearly nollywood has thought you about traditional artifacts. If this was a gift from a royalty to another. Tell me wetin consign Gods inside.

Furthermore, most african artifacts tell a story or serves as a narrative tool for oral historical teachings s. From trade, to travel, riots or everyday activities. History was taught orally but the artifacts give a physical roadmap. Try and educate yourself on your history..

ritababe:
don't want to go into argument now, but know this, that cockerel would have been destroyed now if it was with us.

Did we destroy the ones left in the Oba's palace.

The only people that would have destroyed it would have been the brainwash religious bigot. Not the real owners.

AlienStar:
Let's face the truth, if that cockerel had been here it must have been destroyed and long forgotten.

Really.... Just like the ones in the Oba's collection. Let's not be misled. This art work was not stolen from a farmer or a fisherman.

Bollinger:
For the sake of continuity, it might be better to leave it where it is. If that statue had been in Nigeria, it would have being either lost, stolen, sold, or vandalized.

And all that would have happened because the original owners are stupid or the zoo the thieves created has run amok.

Sijo01:
Funny enough, I just told my dad same thing. Am even of the opinion that if there's a way Nigeria government can arrange with them to be sending part of the proceeds generated from tourist visits to the cockerel down to naija.

I believe the cockerel will even attract more tourist in its present location than it will in Nigeria.

I understand that nigeria is a zoo. But that does not equate celebrating weakness. People like you built that!!

I beg you. Have respect for your heritage. Your forebears were not inept of ideas. Evidence: the whiteman came and stole their work of art.

AlienStar:
Need it for what? They can't take good care of their zoo animals buh are insisting on a lifeless statue that they certainly can't take care of. #leave.it.to.the britains.that.knows.the. value

What does that tell you. Those who built it had a civilization that could maintain it. The British came in and destroyed it. Now it's a zoo. And the descendant of those who built it are so far mentally weak to appreciate a work of art... Now the thieves are now the ones that appreciate it's value..

Eddygourdo:
Finally a bini god can return home from exile in the home of his abductors. ...... Our gods were kidnapped by the colonial masters.

Is this post suppose to be a joke...? if you know what artifacts are in traditional settings. Then you'll understand the folly of your statement.