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Programming › Re: Simple Code Challenge: C#, Java, C, C++ by GreyBeard: 1:55pm On Feb 05, 2012

Beaf:
Which of the examples are you pointing out? The two winning ones don't have that problem (except I'm mistaken).

OK, here's what I mean. In this solution:

PatternSearch(patternArray, searchArray3);
PatternSearch(patternArray, searchArray1);
PatternSearch(patternArray, searchArray2);

private void PatternSearch(int[] patternArray, int[] searchArray)
    {
        int foundPos = -1;
        int foundPosExtendedMode = -1;
        int currSearchElementPos = 0;//current index of searchArray being tested
        int currExtendedModeSearchElementPos = 0;//current index of searchArray being tested in extended mode
        int maxExtendedCycles = 0;
        int patternArrayLength = patternArray.Length;
        bool isLoopInExtendedMode = false;

        for (int i = 0; i < searchArray.Length; i++)
        { ,  }
  }

the method containing the for loop - PatternSearch - is called 3 times. So the same for loop is essentially called 3 times. My question was, can this still count as valid? - Or am I missing something?

Christianity Etc › Re: Is Rhapsody Of Realities Really A Scam? by GreyBeard(op): 11:56am On Feb 05, 2012

Joagbaje:
If church runs a pure water business , shoukd it be sold free? What is the sense there?

And what's wrong with the church providing clean drinking water to poorer people who cannot afford it? To those who constantly get sick and sometimes die of diseases caused by drinking unclean water? What's wrong with that?

If a church runs a restaurant and provide service , should it be free?

And why not? What is wrong with feeding the poor and the hungry? Did Jesus charge when he fed the 5000?

Catholic church has hospital , people pay.

And why can't CEC show some true Christian values and provide free healthcare to those who can't afford it? Go and see what Faith Alive is doing in Nigeria (http://www.faithalivenigeria.org/) and you'll see true Christian values at work.

The trouble with Pastors like you is that you see everything the church does as a business.

1 Like

Christianity Etc › Re: Is Rhapsody Of Realities Really A Scam? by GreyBeard(op): 11:30am On Feb 05, 2012

Joagbaje:
Do you get your bibles free. Even the Gideon free bibles have to be paid for to make it free. Nobody publish free. Ink is not free .Somebody must pay somewhere. Hope you get my point.

Besides rhapsody is not free . We pay for some copies to make it free. There are several devotional in the world. Our daily bread used to be my favorite . I paid to buy them. Why should CEC matter be exceptional. Is it because it's oyakhilome?

We are not talking about church,we are talking about publication . Do you get your bibles free? Do you buy christian books? Do you visit christian bookshops? If you do ,that's hypocrisy .don't you think so? Rules change when it's CEC

The temple was meant for prayer. We are not talking about church building here but book sales. Rhapsody is a universal book. Not only a CEC material .

No printing isnt free and costs more when the owner Pst Chris uses it as a personal business. You mentioned Daily Bread, well they go strictly by donations. You can choose to donate or not but you'll still get it for free. This isn't a personal attack on CEC or Pst Chris - this is just an account of what the ROR is all about. The point is that is has already been paid for once by the members and they are charged yet again. People are paying twice for something that CEC calls free.

Although I think the ROR contents are just about ok, Martian put it best

Martian:
First he takes your money in the form of tithes and offerings, publishes jargon with the money, then sells it back to you. Hilarious.

1 Like

Christianity Etc › Re: Is Rhapsody Of Realities Really A Scam? by GreyBeard(op): 11:57pm On Feb 04, 2012

Pastor Jo, it is relevant because if the author of this FREE material that is supposed to be for winning new souls and encouraging christian life is also running the printing AND selling of it as a BUSINESS then there is something very, very wrong there.
Church is not a business. The church does not exist to profit from its members and neither should its Pastors.
I'm sure you remember what Jesus did to the business men he found operating in the temple, profiting from the congregation.

My point is since CE publish ROR with monies obtained from their members collectively, they should at that point distribute it for free. Asking the same members to pay for it again so that it can recoup the expenses paid to the printer who also happens to be the author who also happens to be the head of the same church and who is undoubtably making a profit himself - is really just a plain old scam and nothing to do with Christian values.

2 Likes

Christianity Etc › Re: Is Rhapsody Of Realities Really A Scam? by GreyBeard(op): 11:18pm On Feb 04, 2012

@Joagbaje
You are sounding more defensive than usual there my friend. Did I hit on a raw nerve? I hope so cool

OK, firstly with the Finance Minister thing I think u probably got me mixed up with someone else. So no harm - no foul.

I asked you how is the printing of millions of RORs per month funded and you said:

Joagbaje:
It's not anybody's business , publishing ministry has been triving for decade before rhapsody was born. Either it's from profit or bank loan ,it's not anybodys buinessness .

I take that to mean that you don't know. So again I put it to you that the cash is money the church has coming in from its members as tithes, offerings, first fruits, seeds etc.
BUT even if they are using the profits from the publishing of other ministry material, isn't it the same members who buy these books that are supplying the profit? So undoubtably the money comes in one way or another from the members.

My second question was whether or not members pay for the RORs they give out for free. Your answer was:

People either pay or the copies they buy or the copies the give out.

So that means YES they do. Good.

And my final question was who owns the printing press. And you answered:

Publishing arm had been on for decade before printing press was built.

Hmmm, has anyone ever told u that you would make a good politician? Because you know who to give crooked answers to direct questions. Please if you honestly don't know just say you don't know because my source claimed to know his facts on very good authority. So let me ask you again in a different way -

The printing press used to publish RORs is owned by whom (please choose only one answer):
a. An outside business
b. The church itself
c. Pst Chris himself (as my source claims)
d. An outside business owned by Pst Chris (just to avoid any ambiguity)

1 Like

Programming › Re: Simple Code Challenge: C#, Java, C, C++ by GreyBeard: 8:08pm On Feb 04, 2012

I just came across this thread and I'm loving the coding entries.

@Beaf - Since your original post said the solution should be done in a single for loop, do the Java and C# entries qualify since they are all calling a for loop from a seperate method up to 3 times. So in actual fact, the for loop gets called 3 times and not once. Just saying

Christianity Etc › Re: Giving My Firstfruit This Sunday - So Exciting! by GreyBeard: 7:13pm On Feb 04, 2012

bishopz:
Honour the Lord with thy substance and with the FIRST FRUITS of all thine increase. (proverbs 3:9) whatever is not of faith is sin.

This is very true. But Joagbaje And co. would have us believe that it is right to pay your first months salary even though you haven't had any increase or pay rise.

Christianity Etc › Re: Giving My Firstfruit This Sunday - So Exciting! by GreyBeard: 6:31pm On Feb 04, 2012

Joagbaje:
@graybeard

It's based faith of individuals. For example ,What is FIRST fruit to a taxi driver? Income from His FIRST passenger? . His FIRST day entire income? His entire income for the FIRST week, or for the month? . It's based on individual relationship and faith. A pastor can only teach what principles in the bible . It's left for individuals to believe and act on it.

If a pastor teaches on alms giving to the poor he wont force anybody to give alms . Even if he says everybody should come tomorrow with money to take to the poor after service tomorrow . Some people will still not give. Everything is based on individual revelation .

Pastor Jo! You know how to dodge giving a direct answer. That's a real skill you have my brother wink

Ok. Let me put it like this. Assuming I am an office worker and my only source of income is my salary which is paid monthly. How would you advise me to pay my first fruits?

Christianity Etc › Re: Giving My Firstfruit This Sunday - So Exciting! by GreyBeard: 11:32am On Feb 04, 2012

bulksms247:
I will try to be explaintory here but before then, some read Exodus 23:16. God does not lie.

First fruit is hard to do and many pastors don't teach for fear of losing their members but frm what my pastor taught me about it I will try to explain here.

First fruit is the first money that comes into your hand from your business on the first business day of the year, all your profits that day is your first fruit.

For non working people like students, your own first fruit is the first money that entered into your hand as a gift in a year.

For salary earners; your first fruit is your first salary after you might have removed your expenses from the salary, what ever remains is your first fruit, that is the bitter truth.

For people that do farming, your first fruits is first harvest u got from ur farm or the first gain you made from selling the first harvest from ur farm in a year.

Same applies to all endeavours of life.

Just like exodus 23:16.

Thanks

I hear you. But many churches now preach that the first fruit for a working man or woman is 100% of your Janurary salary as security for good finances for the rest of the year. That is 100%. Without deductions for expenses, rent, food etc.

Pastor Joagbaje is this not true?

Christianity Etc › Re: Is Rhapsody Of Realities Really A Scam? by GreyBeard(op): 11:11am On Feb 04, 2012

Joagbaje:
The so called ~~fact~~ is false . And I'm disappointed at you. If you claim to be a christian and a finance minister or so. You can speak so carnally about offerings made to God in such irreverent manner.

The publishing ministry has nothing to do with tithes and offerings. It's independent . Every aspect of the ministry is independent. Prison ministry,children , motherless, tv, Internet, satellite and on and on.

I'm happy to disappoint you because to be honest Joagbaje I value the banana in my fruit salad more than I value your opinion of my good self. And I don't know where or when I claimed to be a Finance Minister shocked

but if that is one of your predictions for the future of Grey Beard and it comes true then perhaps I'll start to value what you say a little more than the fruit in my salad. But only a little more cool

Anyway, lets not digress. You say the facts are false? OK. Which part?

How does the publishing ministry get the funds to initially print ROR?
Do the members have to pay for RORs before it is distrubuted for free?
Is the printing press owned by an outside business, the publishing ministry or Pst Chris himself?

3 Likes

Christianity Etc › Re: Giving My Firstfruit This Sunday - So Exciting! by GreyBeard: 10:56am On Feb 04, 2012

For the record, a lot of churches now encourage the giving of first fruit. That is 100% of your salary on the first month of the year. EVERY year.

OmoPastor:
am signing my check for my firstfruit this sunday and am very excited about it already.

have been doing this for the past 5 yrs and have never regretted it and have never suffered after doing it.

it may appear difficult but its worth it and you cannot out-give God anyway!

my year is secured financially and monies are locating me by free course unhindered, glory to God!

My guy, give all you want to but if you are going to give then give for the sake of giving - and not for the sake of receiving. God is not a money-doubler!

Christianity Etc › Re: Is Rhapsody Of Realities Really A Scam? by GreyBeard(op): 10:44am On Feb 04, 2012

Gentlemen, Lets keep it straight shall we.

FXKing2012:
All of you posting rumours and rubbish wt no facts [/b]about the church and men of God had better STOP IT NOW!, you are heaping curses upon yourselves. Be wise!

I presented [b]facts as I saw them in my original post. Perhaps you should read it again. If this business about how ROR works is wrong then please enlighten us as to how it actually is.

@Joagbaje, I heard you are a strong Believer in Loveworld. Can you tell us whether the facts I have been given regarding ROR are true or false?

Christianity Etc › Re: Is Rhapsody Of Realities Really A Scam? by GreyBeard(op): 2:55pm On Feb 02, 2012

@Zikkyy
The beneficiaries from the proceeds of sales of ROR are ultimately Psts Chris and Anita because they author it AND publish it - which means they will set the price.

It's possible the church policy is not to use regular collections (tithe & offerings) for such publications, so whatever is made from the sales goes to replace (or seen as a refund) the church fund used for printing

Good point! So why make the church members pay for it again when it was their money that was used to publish it in the first place? If it is their policy to re-coup the money spent then they should just sell it. If they must give it free then give it free. But when church members pay for it again that means the church have re-couped their money AND Psts Chris and Anita have also made a profit on the sales.

It's also possible that church expenses exceed takings in tithes & offerings (the case fore a good umber of churches).

I wouldn't believe that the cost of publishing ROR exceeds the total takings in tithes and offerings of an organisation the size of Believers Loveworld (aka Christ Embassy). However, if it did then they would just print less copies.

Christianity Etc › Re: Is Rhapsody Of Realities Really A Scam? by GreyBeard(op): 3:00am On Feb 02, 2012

jacobscros:
Gosh!!! Is it a sin to be business minded and enterprising in the house of God. Do u want the church to go bankrupt. They need to get funding from somewhere geez!!

I understand business minded. Business minded is creating a product and selling it for a profit. Creating a product and then getting your spiritual followers to pay for it TWICE over is not business minded, it's 419!

Besides, when did a House of God turn into a House of Business? No one can serve two masters.

2 Likes

Christianity Etc › Is Rhapsody Of Realities Really A Scam? by GreyBeard(op): 5:43pm On Feb 01, 2012

Let me be very clear. I have no interest in launching attacks against any particular church or any particular man of God however I have no doubt that some zealots may consider this post as such, Be that as it may, what I am seeking to understand is the system that Rhapsody of Realities (ROR) operates in and I am willing to stand corrected if the information I have been given is wrong.

Now here is my perception of what happens in the ROR world from my conversations with some committed Christ Embassy members:

(1) RORs are written by Psts Chris and Anita monthly
(2) RORs are published/printed
(3) Each ROR is paid for in cash by church members
(4) The church members who bought them distribute them for free.

Now what is wrong with this picture? Well lets break it down further:

Each month, the actual printing of the RORs are paid for by the church. The church gets its money from its members in the form of offers, tithes etc. So in other words, the church members collectively pay for printing this material.
The newly printed RORs are now sold back to the same members for more of their cash. The justification for this is that printing isn't free. But its been paid for already by the church using money given to it by the members. So in other words, the church members are paying for the RORs TWICE - before giving it out for free.

But that's not all,

One of the church members I spoke to insisted that Pastor Chris himself owns the publishing company that the church pays to publish and print the ROR. If this is true (and I hope it's not) then it means that he will be making a personal profit on each copy of ROR sold. Also, Psts Chris and Anita are the sole authors so they will by law personally own all royalties and other authoring rights of the ROR into perpetuity.

So if we put this all together what we get is Psts Chris and Anita authoring and publishing material which they (strongly) encourage their church members to pay for TWICE (once indirectly in tithes, offerings etc and once directly to the publishers - Psts Chris & Anita themselves) before any one sees it for free.

Now to me, if it looks like a scam and it smells like a scam, then what is it. . . ?

2 Likes

Webmasters › Re: Making A Web Link Open Up In A New Browser Window by GreyBeard: 1:10pm On Feb 01, 2012

Fayimora:
target="_blank" opens in a new TAB not window.

That's probably because your web browser has been set to open these up in new tabs instead of new windows.

Christianity Etc › Re: Are women afterthought of God according to the bible? by GreyBeard: 3:56pm On Jan 13, 2012

Women where NOT an afterthought. If u read the creation story you will see that God create a male and female image of himself.

    Genesis 26 Then God said, “Let us make mankind in our image, in our likeness, so that they may rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky, over the livestock and all the wild animals,[a] and over all the creatures that move along the ground.”

27 So God created mankind in his own image,
   in the image of God he created them;
   male and female he created them.

28 God blessed them and said to them, “Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky and over every living creature that moves on the ground.”

Christianity Etc › Re: A Sensible Religion. . . by GreyBeard: 8:58pm On May 04, 2011

Deep Sight:
Faith arose within my opening article based on the question - Is it necessary for a Religion to be sensible at all? In pursuing that question I noted that many religious people will use the argument of faith to rebut the supposition that religion must make sense. To them, faith is just faith, and it needn't be reasonable.

I think we can agree that Faith and Religion are not the same and in the context of your original post I think using the two terms inter-changeably is mis-leading.
A faith doesn't have to be a religion but a religion includes faith at its centre and is completed by a number of other components. So in my view a religion can make sense without requiring it's core faith to make sense.

However, if someone says that their faith demands they kill others in order to enter paradise then I think you'll find that they have been misled by others looking to use faith for their own ends.

Deep Sight:
It was in that specific context that I approached the question of faith: examining the tenability of the position that faith needn't be reasonable. The summary of the argument in the opening article is that religious faith ought to be reasonable. And surely, if religious faith is deployed according to reason, then all these which you mentioned -

- Aztec Human Sacrifice
- The Christian Crusades
- The Islamic Jihads
- The Spanish Inquisition
- The Trans-Atlantic Slave-Trade etc

- - - - Would certainly be avoided.

There is nothing wrong with the faiths or religions used to justify these events in history. The faiths are beautiful and and religions honourable. What caused these event to occur were the people who exploited those religions to their own ends. If you properly examine all the religions today (apart for Judaism which is more of a culture than a religion) you'll see they are all reasonable and seek to provide mankind with a good moral compass. But what makes them seem senseless in some cases is when they are manipulated by unscrupulous individuals who seek to use the nature of faith itself to justify their acts.

The reality of the matter is that even if somehow all religion and all faith was eliminated from this world, it will not change the nature of some men willing to do anything for power. Religion is just a tool they use and if it is no longer there or changed to make it impossible for them to use it, they will simply use some other means to achieve their goals. As long as there is Power, there will be evil. And as long as there are human beings, there will be power.

Christianity Etc › Re: A Sensible Religion. . . by GreyBeard: 9:11pm On May 03, 2011

Insightful post!

Deep Sight:
This is a successful application of the argument of the extremes, and it shows us that faith alone is not sufficient to serve as a justification for any belief or practice which the common conscience of mankind may sense to be inherently and intrinsically unreasonable or reprehensible.

I agree. Faith by itself is insufficient to constitute a religion or indeed justify any practises thereof. However faith (that unshakable belief in something that is impossible to prove) is intrinsic to religion and when looked at under the microscope of the "argument of the extremes" has incalculable benefits to mankind.
For example, you wrote:

Deep Sight:
Well the result would be clear. The human sacrifices of the Aztec would be justified by faith. All manner of violent behavior inspired by religious inclinations and defended by scriptural authority would be justified by faith. Worship by pagans of graven images and idols would be justified by faith. The gender apartheid against women in many societies would be justified by faith. Child marriage would be justified by faith.

However, if you look at the other extreme, you'll find that faith can Move Mountains, Heal the Sick, Give Sight to the Blind, Cause the Lame to Walk, Raise the Dead - in other words, Make the Impossible Possible. With "extreme faith" you can do literally anything on this earth.

Regarding the Aztec human sacrifices, I would question whether those things were Acts of Faith or merely Practises of Religion or Culture that emunated from an overall belief system. Another way of looking at it would be - when a Christian takes Holy Communion, is he/she committing an Act of Faith or a Religious Practise? I seriously doubt whether any Christian believes that the bread entering their mouth is literally the flesh of Jesus or the red wine his actual blood. But the practise continues as part of their overall Faith in Jesus. The point is, the Faith part is Jesus dying and resurrecting (an impossibilty made possible) and the religious practise part is the taking of bread and wine.

To me, Faith in its essential form is believing in the (seemingly) impossible - so strongly that it eventually manifests itself. This of course can have good and bad consequences depending on what a person believes so strongly in. But overall, a world filled to the brim with extreme Faith is a glorious thing where magical, impossible things will happen everyday and would be achievable by everyone and anyone. Poverty would not exist except by choice because extreme Faith would allow anyone to literally Move Mountains.

But just imagine a world completely devoid of Faith. cry

The strong would enslave the weak and the empowered would be free to enact all sorts of wickedness on everyone else. It would be a lot like the world is today - Only worse.

I don't see Faith as the problem here. The problem is man's hijacking of a faith or a belief to justify their own ends - usually for money but more often for power.

- Aztec Human Sacrifice
- The Christian Crusades
- The Islamic Jihads
- The Spanish Inquisition
- The Trans-Atlantic Slave-Trade etc

These have all being carried out in the past under the guise of one faith or another to grossly enrich and empower a group of human beings. But by blaming Faith itself, we stand the risk of throwing the baby out with the bath-water.

Christianity Etc › Re: Miracle Pastors - All Their Tricks Exposed - Channel 4 - UK by GreyBeard: 8:40pm On Apr 30, 2011

Joagbaje:
Yes you're right. Have you ever cast out a devil.? . If you have,you will never criticise a miracle. Jesus us the same forever.

@joagbaje - Have you seen the programme? Do you really think there are no fake miracle healers in this world?? If you do, then you are seriously deluded. The only people making caricature of the gifts of the spirit are these obviously fake liars who use well established circus tricks in the name of the Lord.

Go and watch the programme and then tell me if it doesn't show charlatans at work. Open your eyes man, there is A LOT of falsehood and deception in the faith healing industry. If you don't believe this simple fact then perhaps you need a man of God to heal you of your self-inflicted blindness.

1 Like

Christianity Etc › Re: Miracle Pastors - All Their Tricks Exposed - Channel 4 - UK by GreyBeard: 10:47am On Apr 30, 2011

Joagbaje:
You are happy they make caricature of the gift of the spirit. And you call it superb. . You guys are something else

@joagbaje
There is no one blinder than he who refuses to see.

1 Like

Christianity Etc › Re: Miracle Pastors - All Their Tricks Exposed - Channel 4 - UK by GreyBeard: 8:59pm On Apr 29, 2011

Very good documentary. I liked the way they took a common man from the streets and taught him all the tricks of healing pastors so that when he performed, people actually believed he has a gifted pastor himself.

Superb stuff.

1 Like

Christianity Etc › Re: Pastors And Body Guards. by GreyBeard: 12:03pm On Apr 26, 2011

Joagbaje:
I agree . But Why did Jesus ask those of them without swords to go and buy?

Well lets look at the passage:

Luke 22 (King James Version)

1Now the feast of unleavened bread drew nigh, which is called the Passover. . . .

14And when the hour was come, he sat down, and the twelve apostles with him. . . .

31And the Lord said, Simon, Simon, behold, Satan hath desired to have you, that he may sift you as wheat:

32But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren.

33And he said unto him, Lord, I am ready to go with thee, both into prison, and to death.

34And he said, I tell thee, Peter, the cock shall not crow this day, before that thou shalt thrice deny that thou knowest me.

35And he said unto them, When I sent you without purse, and scrip, and shoes, lacked ye any thing? And they said, Nothing.

36Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.

37For I say unto you, that this that is written must yet be accomplished in me, And he was reckoned among the transgressors: for the things concerning me have an end.

38And they said, Lord, behold, here are two swords. And he said unto them, It is enough.

Now looking at the above passages, a number of things become very clear.
(1) This scene was taking place during the feast of the passover and Jesus was about to be betrayed. In other words, He had now reached the ending of His mission on earth.

(2) Simon Peter - arguably his chief diciple, was about to be manipulated by satan. Jesus has prayed on his behalf but Simon's faith was not yet strong enough to successfully counter all the plans of satan for him at this period AND strengthen the other diciples. Which is why Jesus said:

"But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren."

(3) Jesus knew that during this time He would be treated like a dangerous criminal (And he was reckoned among the transgressors) and His diciples would also be in extreme danger themselves. He also knew they didn't have enough spiritual faith to meet those dangers so would require physical protection for themselves at this time since He would be taken away from them.

(4) So He asked them to buy swords at the END of His mission not DURING His mission. The swords where not for His protection but for their own as they obviously lacked the faith to deal with the forthcoming situation.

(5) This was obviously NOT a mandate that all subsequent MOG should carry security for themselves but simply a precaution against the immediate danger for his diciples whose faith Jesus predicted would fail them.
But afterwards ("when thou art converted") - then Simon would be strong enough even to strengthen others.

Jesus did not need security during His lifetime and never requested it for Himself but only for those who He knew didn't have enough faith to face a pending danger. So if some MOG today need "two swords" (bodyguards), then their faith must also be failing them in the face of danger and like Simon need to be "converted" to have enough faith to strenghten themselves and their flock.

Christianity Etc › Re: Pastors And Body Guards. by GreyBeard: 9:25am On Apr 25, 2011

^^ Yes, you are absolutely right!

It is a choice for mogs to enjoy private jets obtained from monies from their congregations some of whom cannot afford 3 square meals in a day.

It is a choice for them to emotionally coerce their congregations into regularly buying their books and dvds and bring in yet more money for them.

It is a choice for them to build universities with money obtained from their congregations most of whom cannot afford to send their children there.

It is a choice to build businesses - also from congregation money and plough the profits back into the church without the original sponsors (the congregations) seeing a kobo from that profit.

It is also a choice to charge people for "gate entry" into special services.

It is a choice for them to charge different amounts of money for different kinds of prayers.

It is a choice to preach to the poor, desperate and vulnerable that in order to come out of their condition, the only choice that they have in God's eyes is to part with money.

It is a choice to preach that you can successfully serve God and Mommon.

And of course it is a choice to use bodyguards.

However, this thread isn't about choices. It is about opinions. Opinons on whether those choices are RIGHT or WRONG. It is about justifying these opinions and that is why I asked you earlier if you had anything extra to add to the thread since the "diciples where Jesus' bodyguard" argument has been blown out of the water.

Christianity Etc › Re: Pastors And Body Guards. by GreyBeard: 11:52pm On Apr 24, 2011

newmi:
So what is your point is there any difference in our own day

Do u know any fishermen who carry weapons around with them?
What is YOUR point? huh

Please, I was responding to a particular question on that sub-topic. There is no point trying to side-track the issue.

Christianity Etc › Re: Pastors And Body Guards. by GreyBeard: 11:45pm On Apr 24, 2011

Azibalua:
Remember

Romans 14:4
4 They are God's servants, not yours. They are responsible to him, not to you. Let him tell them whether they are right or wrong. And God is able to make them do as they should.

Azi bBy. That is precisely the whole point of this thread. If they are indeed Gods servants then they would NOT need bodyguards. Do u have anything extra to contribute or do u just enjoy sucking up to pastor Joe

Christianity Etc › Re: Pastors And Body Guards. by GreyBeard: 7:31pm On Apr 24, 2011

Azibalua:
So carrying of arms are solely for cultural purposes?
How naive!
It's no ones business if any body decides to have guards,
If Jesus can hide himself,so can any other person, that was wisdom at that point,
We all function at different levels,and so if I am comfortable with guards fine if am not fine,it's a thing of choice

@ Azibalua. So according to you,
It's no ones business if any body decides to have guards. even your MOG?
Now who is being naive??

Besides it is a fact that the time of Jesus was one of political upheaval and it was very common for the common man (like fishermen etc) to carry swords.

Christianity Etc › Re: Pastors And Body Guards. by GreyBeard: 1:31pm On Apr 24, 2011

I would have to agree with nuclearboy here. The swords were a cultural aspect at the time. I would also like to stress an important point here that Jesus did not employ or commission any of his disciples for His security. They were his disciples who at times reacted when they thought their teacher and master was in danger.
Today's pastors on the other hand commission certain individuals to act solely as their personal bodyguards. Jesus never did this and there is a very clear distinction between friends trying to protect you and employing bodyguards.

Christianity Etc › Re: If Christianity Is About Wealth, why did Jesus not make any poor person rich ? by GreyBeard: 3:39am On Apr 24, 2011

By the way, I did read yr entire post and I understand what u r saying. Yes Jesus healed people who can to Him and He also went to people to heal them. Then He gave believers the power to do the same. However, these pastors who claim this power only seem capable of utilising half this. They can only heal those who come to them. Why is this?

Christianity Etc › Re: If Christianity Is About Wealth, why did Jesus not make any poor person rich ? by GreyBeard: 3:30am On Apr 24, 2011

@Natasha - You r missing the point here. The scripture I quoted didn't say Jesus went about healing those who had enough faith to be healed. It said He went about healing ALL manner of sicknesses and diseases. The scriptures also claim that believers can do the same in His name and miracle working pastors claim this as their source of healing powers. But the question is Why do the sick have to come to them to be healed if they have the power of healing that Jesus gave them?

And to have power to heal sicknesses, and to cast out devils:
Mark 3:15

And don't say it's about faith becos Jesus never said He could not heal becos of lack of faith from the recipient.

Christianity Etc › Re: If Christianity Is About Wealth, why did Jesus not make any poor person rich ? by GreyBeard: 10:08pm On Apr 23, 2011

^^ So what r u saying exactly? That Pastors today have only limited healing powers? That only Jesus can go about healing people in the streets and pastors are restricted to healing people who come to them?

And Jesus went about all Galilee, teaching in their synagogues, and preaching the gospel of the kingdom, and healing all manner of sickness and all manner of disease among the people. Matt 4:23

If that is what you r saying then there is something very wrong with that.

Christianity Etc › Re: If Christianity Is About Wealth, why did Jesus not make any poor person rich ? by GreyBeard: 8:27pm On Apr 23, 2011

Richvkunt:
Secondly coming to the Pastors who perform magic and call them miracles,why must they wait for the lame and blind to come to them? Why can they not go out like Jesus did and heal all the blind and lame people we have on the streets if they are so blessed with powers?

Very good question! Can anyone answer this?

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