₦airaland Forum

A STATEMENT ON THE PROSPERITY GOSPEL
Lausanne Theology Working Group

From the Africa Chapter - Lausanne Theology Working Group
At its consultations in Akropong, Ghana, 8-9 October, 2008 and 1-4 September 2009

NOTE:  This is a statement, offered as a discussion starter for further reflection (theological, ethical, pastoral and missiological, socio-political and economic) on the phenomenal rise of prosperity teaching around the world at large and Africa in particular. The points below are a digest of many points made in the course of the discussion of three papers at the Oct. 2008 and ten papers at the Sept 2009 consultations.

We define prosperity gospel as the teaching that believers have a right to the blessings of health and wealth and that they can obtain these blessings through positive confessions of faith and the “sowing of seeds” through the faithful payments of tithes and offerings. We recognize that prosperity teaching is a phenomenon that cuts across denominational barriers. Prosperity teaching can be found in varying degrees in mainstream Protestant, Pentecostal as well as Charismatic Churches. It is the phenomenon of prosperity teaching that is being addressed here not any particular denomination or tradition.

We further recognize that there are some dimensions of prosperity teaching that have roots in the Bible, and we affirm such elements of truth below. We do not wish to be exclusively negative, and we recognize the appalling social realities within which this teaching flourishes and the measure of hope it holds out to desperate people.  However, while acknowledging such positive features, it is our overall view that the teachings of those who most vigorously promote the ‘prosperity gospel’ are false and gravely distorting of the Bible, that their practice is often unethical and unChristlike, and that the impact on many churches is pastorally damaging, spiritually unhealthy, and not only offers no lasting hope, but may even deflect people from the message and means of eternal salvation. In such dimensions, it can be soberly described as a false gospel.

We call for further reflection on these matters within the Christian Church, and request the Lausanne movement to be willing to make a very clear statement rejecting the excesses of prosperity teaching as incompatible with evangelical biblical Christianity.

We affirm the miraculous grace and power of God, and welcome the growth of churches and ministries that demonstrate them and that lead people to exercise expectant faith in the living God and his supernatural power. We believe in the power of the Holy Spirit.

However, we reject as unbiblical the notion that God’s miraculous power can be treated as automatic, or at the disposal of human techniques, or manipulated by human words, actions or rituals.

We affirm that there is a biblical vision of human prospering, and that the Bible includes material welfare (both health and wealth) within its teaching about the blessing of God.  This needs further study and explanation across the whole Bible in both Testaments.  We must not dichotomize the material and the spiritual in unbiblical dualism.

However, we reject the unbiblical notion that spiritual welfare can be measured in terms of material welfare, or that wealth is always a sign of God’s blessing  (since it can be obtained by oppression, deceit or corruption), or that poverty or illness or early death, is always a sign of God’s curse, or lack of faith, or human curses  (since the Bible explicitly denies that it is always so)

We affirm the biblical teaching on the importance of hard work, and the positive use of all the resources that God has given us – abilities, gifts, the earth, education, wisdom, skills, wealth, etc.  And to the extent that some Prosperity teaching encourages these things, it can have a positive effect on people’s lives. We do not believe in an unbiblical ascetism that rejects such things, or an unbiblical fatalism that sees poverty as a fate that cannot be fought against.

However, we reject as dangerously contradictory to the sovereign grace of God, the notion that success in life is entirely due to our own striving, wrestling, negotiation, or cleverness.  We reject those elements of Prosperity Teaching that are virtually identical to ‘positive thinking’ and other kinds of ‘self-help’ techniques. 

We are also grieved to observe that Prosperity Teaching has stressed individual wealth and success, without the need for community accountability, and has thus actually damaged a traditional feature of African society, which was commitment to care within the extended family and wider social community.

We recognize that Prosperity Teaching flourishes in contexts of terrible poverty, and that for many people, it presents their only hope, in the face of constant frustration, the failure of politicians and NGOs, etc.,  for a better future, or even for a more bearable present.  We are angry that such poverty persists and we affirm the Bible’s view that it also angers God and that it is not his will that people should live in abject poverty. We acknowledge and confess that in many situations the Church has lost its prophetic voice in the public arena.

However, we do not believe that Prosperity Teaching provides a helpful or biblical response to the poverty of the people among whom it flourishes. And we observe that much of this teaching has come from North American sources where people are not materially poor in the same way.

It vastly enriches those who preach it, but leaves multitudes no better off than before, with the added burden of disappointed hopes
While emphasizing various alleged spiritual or demonic causes of poverty, it gives little or no attention to those causes that are economic and political, including injustice, exploitation, unfair international trade practices, etc. 
It thus tends to victimize the poor by making them feel that their poverty is their own fault (which the Bible does not do), while failing to address and denounce those whose greed inflicts poverty on others  (which the Bible does repeatedly).
Some prosperity teaching is not really about helping the poor at all, and provides no sustainable answer to the real causes of poverty.

We accept that some prosperity teachers sincerely seek to use the Bible in explaining and promoting their teachings.

However, we are distressed that much use of the Bible is seriously distorted, selective, and manipulative.  We call for a more careful exegesis of texts,  and a more holistic biblical hermeneutic, and we denounce the way that many texts are twisted out of context and used in ways that contradict some very plain Bible teaching.

And especially, we deplore the fact that in many churches where Prosperity Teaching is dominant, the Bible is rarely preached in any careful or explanatory way, and the way of salvation, including repentance from sin and saving faith in Christ for forgiveness of sin, and the hope of eternal life, is misrepresented and substituted with material wellbeing.

We rejoice in the phenomenal growth of the numbers of professing Christians in many countries where churches that have adopted prosperity teachings and practice are very popular.

However, numerical growth or mega-statistics may not necessarily demonstrate the truth of the message that accompanies it, or the belief system behind it. Popularity is no proof of truth;  and people can be deceived in great numbers.

We are pleased to observe that many churches and leaders are critical and in some cases overtly renounce and cut the links with specific aspects of African primal or traditional religion and its practices, where these can be seen to be in conflict with the biblical revelation and worldview.

Yet it seems clear that there are many aspects of Prosperity Teaching that have their roots in that soil.  We therefore wonder if much popular Christianity is a syncretised super-structure on an underlying worldview that has not been radically transformed by the biblical gospel. We also wonder whether the popularity and attraction of Prosperity Teaching is an indication of the failure of contextualization of the Gospel in Africa.

We observe that many people testify to the way Prosperity Teaching has in fact impacted their lives for the better – encouraging them to have greater faith, to seek to improve their education, or working lives.  We rejoice in this.  There is great power in such testimony, and we thank God when any of his children enjoy his blessing.

However, we observe equally that many people have been duped by such teaching into false faith and false expectations, and when these are not satisfied, they ‘give up on God’,  or lose their faith altogether and leave the church.  This is tragic, and must be very grievous to God.

We accept that many prosperity teachers mostly have their roots in evangelical churches and traditions, or were brought up under the influence of evangelical parachurch ministries. 

But we deplore the clear evidence that many of them have in practice moved away from key and fundamental tenets of evangelical faith, including the authority and priority of the Bible as the Word of God, and the centrality of the cross of Christ.

We know that God sometimes puts leaders in positions of significant public fame and influence.

However, there are aspects of the lifestyle and behaviour of many preachers of Prosperity Teaching that we find deplorable, unethical, and frankly idolatrous (to the god of Mammon), and in some of these respects we may be called upon to identify and reject such things as the marks of false prophets, according to the standards of the Bible.  These include:
Flamboyant and excessive wealth and extravagant lifestyles
Unethical and manipulative techniques
Constant emphasis on money, as if it were a supreme good – which is mammon
Replacing the traditional call to repentance and faith with a call to give money
Covetousness which is idolatry
Living and behaving in ways that are utterly inconsistent with either the example of Jesus or the pattern of discipleship that he taught.
Ignoring or contradicting the strong New Testament teaching on the dangers of wealth and the idolatrous sin of greed
Failure to preach the word of God in a way that feeds the flock of Christ
Failure to preach the whole gospel message of sin, repentance, faith and eternal hope.
Failure to preach the whole counsel of God, but replacing it with what people want to hear.
Replacing time for evangelism with fund raising events and appeals
 

First Draft by Rev. Dr. Chris Wright (Chair, Lausanne Theology Working Group)

Edited by Rev. Dr. John Azumah (Member, Lausanne Theology Working Group) In collaboration with Rev. Prof. Kwabena Asamoah-Gyadu, Chair of the Akropong consultations.

This is a collated digest of points made by many contributors, through the written papers and the following discussions.

Joagbaje:
If its good for them why not? Parents do make children eat.

It's carnal mind that sees it like manipulation. Every man who God has given insight has responsibility to make men have it. That's part of the call. But a carnal minded man sees it as business.

Paul had revelations into truth and he ensured he made the church in his time read them. That is sense of responsibility.

Colossians 4:16
And when this epistle is read among you, cause that it be read also in the church of the Laodiceans; and that ye likewise read the epistle from Laodicea.

Ephesians 3:4
4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)

Joagbaje, so you are not denying that it happens then? Good! 

@omopastor
I challenged you to prove me wrong on these points and you have been unable to. Just like your pastor joagbaje you too in your lengthy string  of verbal abuses cannot actually deny that this really happens can you?

We know what you are on this forum. I know your game. You are what we call a religious thug. Your strategy is simply to attack, abuse and basically try and intimidate ANYONE who speaks the truth about this farce called the prosperity gospel. But when it comes down to it, you don't have any substance at all. At least Joagbaje has the integrity to back up his opinions with biblical verses. Your own is just to abuse, abuse, abuse.

OmoPastor! Grow Up!

Joagbaje:
@Grey Beard

The temptation of Christ was inside as well. It is at the thought realm. The devil didn't carry Jesus to the pinnacle of the temple. Remember he stayed in the wilderness for 40 days

So you agree that it tempatation is not just internal like you said in your earlier post. Good.

Joagbaje: Mark 1:13
13 And he was there in the wilderness forty days, tempted of Satan; and was with the wild beasts; and the angels ministered unto him.

Question :How did he get to the temple ? Answer = in his mind. The devil was suggesting thoughts into his mind.

Temple? What Temple?? Are we talking about the same thing here

Joagbaje: The church will teach propper dressing and modesty, but the church cannot turn people back from church because of theor attire. It's Indiscipline that is the issue with  some men. Temptation is not what someone wears. You will meet skimpy dress in school, in the bus , in the supermarket.

The skimper needs renewal of mind. Bros also needs renewal of mind and not blaming his carnal thought on someone else.

What should a doctor do handling a woman sensitive part ? Discipline. That's what bros need.

In your earlier post you sanctimoniously laid the blame for tempatation on the person being tempted but now you are admitting that it works both ways.
And it does. Yes both are to blame. But does your church teach proper dressing and modesty? I think not.

Also, you'll agree that if Jesus Christ can be tempted then all men from the ordinary to the most spritually can also be tempted. Jesus set an example by not giving in to the temptation that the devil presented. But in churches there are man of different levels of spiritual growth and obviously some will give in to temptation easier than others. You may go out to work and see many lustful temptations but that is the last thing that anyone should expect to encounter in the church from other church goers - especially when the church should be amoungst other things an athmosphere for spiritual growth.

I'm not suggesting churches start turning people away who dress inappropriately but if pastors laid half as much emphasis on this problem as they do on selling their wares then I guarantee it would disappear overnight.

@omopastor
Can you prove me wrong?? If you can then that is what this thread is for. I would love for you to explain to me how the 'Book Review' really works at CE. I challenge you to step up and do so.

Joagbaje:
If a pastor make people buy books ,he has done a good job. It's for their good to study.

No pastor should make a person buy their books.

Yes, encouraging reading is good, but using worldly tactics to sell your books to your congregation on a regular basis is wrong. If it isn't then show me where the Bible says it is right.

elsirich:
@poster, u just open ur mouth and u start vomitting rubbish. If u don't have anything to say can't you just read other posts and get out the the blog or the the people buying it with ur money or complaining to you?
Honestly u just acted like a low life, God forsaken, frustrated and if am not mistaken cursed individual , who can not see beyond the point where u are presently.
Learn to keep quiet if u don't have anything reasonable to say.

And this is you leading by example is it? So tell us elsirich, what is reasonable about anything you've just said??  

Akwenuke marho:
THEY BELIEVE IN THE MYTH OF A VIRGIN MAN, WHO WAS BORN BY A VIRGIN AND WHO DIED A VIRGIN, THAT HE WAS THE SON OF GOD AND THAT HE DIED FOR THEIR SINS, CHRISTIANS ARE THE CAUSE OF ALL THE PROBLEMS IN THE WORLD TODAY FROM THE DARK AGES TILL NOW THEY STILL FIND A WAY TO BE HYPOCRITICAL OF EVERYTHING

So you are obviously not a follower of Christ. And I can respect that. But do you think to shock people out of their faith by posting such a ridiculous picture? Surely you must see that posting what you believe to be a picture of Jesus as a living zombie with a blood stained mouth is highly disrespectful to the beliefs of many on this thread. Especially since it isn't fact-based but purely an emotional cheap shot.
Yes I agree that throughout hsitory evil men have used Christianity to further their own wicked ambitions but you can't blame Jesus Christ for that. If you know what He stood for you'll see that.
And besides, if there was no Christianlty evil men would still find other ways to further their ambitions of power and greed. So be wise and understand the reality of things. The Christian faith is a personal thing. Either you have it or you don't. And to have it you need to take a leap of faith. If you want to find out more all you have to do is get hold of a Bible and just read (in either Matthew, Mark, Luke or John) about the life of the Man that we are following and you'll get why we call Him (amoungst other things) The King of Love.

@musKeeto - Never mind these brain-washed pastor zombies like Nwapst. Their pastor has instilled so much fear in them with nonsense about how God will condemn anyone who speaks out against these practises. What Nwapst doesn't realise is that not everyone is carrying around the spirit of fear like he (or she) is.

Nwapst:
Grey Beard, am certain that one day, u will attract a course from the spirit, since u cant think of anything gud to do with ur life than criticise Men of God. I wish u best of luck though! just continue

@Nwapst - The Holy Spirit does not issue the spirit of fear so if you are afraid that speaking out like this will bring some punishment from the spirit then I feel sorry for you. Is this Bible based? It is precisely this kind of brain-washing that keeps you as part of the money machine that many churches have become. My advise to you is to pray to God directly for REAL revelation and have the courage to truly follow His ways.

ekpriobong:
Am so happy that NLs are beginning to understand the nature of person that you are. You started gradually and now you have loose your fame here. Your inputs would not be regarded anymore by any rational human no matter how the construction may sound great. And  I still repeat that your Gross Mental Output and Attitude [GMOaA] is erroneously low. You waste most of your time thinking and writing bullshit. Imagine the time you wasted to come up with this poo. Is this growth at all? The last time I told you if you don't apology and leave men of God alone if you cannot say anything good about them your future is seal and you took it as a threat but it beginning to happen. The large support you used to enjoyed whenever you drop poo here is waning and very soon you won't even be useful anymore to even yourself if you don't realize what you have done and make amends. A word they say is enough for the wise. It all left for you!

Are you one of these 'pastors' who is eating from your congregation? It sounds like you are. And the truth hurts doesn't it. Well this post is exposing useless fraudsters like you! Be Warned! Bit by bit your type will be purged from our society. Ole!

stillme:
Salvation may be free but not cheap.

That is without a doubt the MOST ignorant statement I have ever heard! Do u actually know what it means to think for yourself? You really are a Pastor's Zombie.

OmoPastor:
@ op

why have you chosen to display your ignorance publicly and embarrassing yourself?

my advise to you is very simple: since you are of the opinion that many pastors are falling short (according to you) of running the ministry the way they are expected to, you should show them the right way by starting a ministry and writing books that you will give out freely to everyone and lets see how far you will go in life.

if you are not ready to carry out this simple instruction then shut your bucal cavity up, seems you a running mouth disease.  

grand rubbish  

So going by your reasoning, the only way I can justify critising some wrong that the governor of my state is doing is to become the governor? Ode! Is it my fault your father did not train you well? My advise to you is to keep quiet so people will think you might have sense rather than opening your mouth and confirming that you don't.

tithe:
Dummy talk,

If you cannot invest in spiritual things don't discourage others from doing so, Spend your time in better things and stop impugning men of God.

@tithe - Judging from your user name and the judgemental statement you made above I don't believe I could even have an intelligent exchange with you even if I wanted to  

pek:
What is the meaning of MOGs? Does it in any way mean Men of Gods?

@pek - Consider me duly corrected 

Shalomdee:
Every author is entitled to recieve reward for the effort he or she put into his or her book. There is nothing wrong if men of God sell their books. Even the Bible is sold for money is it not?

@Shalomdee - Have you ever paid for a copy of the Gideons Bible? Besides, it's wrong to compare the Bible with any text written by a MOG today whatever the basis.

Gsmxpert:
There will be no perbutation amongs church members as long as what they pay for is advantageous.
even if an MOG spits into a handtowel and place it on sale many people will accept it with alarcrity, believing
It has an advantage.

So if I understand you correctly, it's the Faith many would pay for. Agreed! But is it right to [b]Profit [/b]from this? I think not.

There are many methods MOGs use to coerce their members into purchasing their material and it is very important that they do so. This is because in the majority of Pentecostal Churches, the proceeds from the sale of books and dvds goes [b]directly [/b]to the authors - that is the MOG who wrote it. The church does not see a penny of that money unless the author decides to donate a portion of it to the church. This is also the same for most daily devotionals.

So just like a musical singer makes direct income from any concerts they do, MOGs make direct income through the sales of their books and dvds. Now I would like to talk about one very effective devise used to get members to regularly purchase books that is used by some Pentecostal churches including one that claims to have Embassys for Christ in different cities in Nigeria and other countries.

Now the head of the church (or MOGs) publishes a new book called say "A New Walk With God" and needs to sell this. He has a meeting with his senior pastors and asks them to implement a Review [/b]of the book over a two week period throughout the church. And here's how the "review" method works:

- On Sunday morning in every single branch of the church the branch Pastor will announce that today the church is starting a 2 week Book Review of "A New Walk With God".

- The branch pastor will stand on the pulpit for between 10 - 20 minutes and literally "Sell" this book. He (or She) will hammer on about the spiritual and physical merits of the book and mention numerous testimonies on how the book has helped not only people he knows but also himself personally. Now bear in mind that this is happening in all the church branches at the same time.

- Next the branch pastor will announce that all the sermons for the upcoming services in the next two weeks will be based on areas with the book "A New Walk With God" and tells members that they [b]NEED to pick themselves up a copy of the book not only to gain from the words personally but to also follow the upcoming services properly. He explains that if they do not have this book then they will be missing out on many revelations and blessing. Now bear in mind that the pastor speaking has unquestionable authority in the minds on the "committed members". So by him saying this, he has ensured that this batch of committed members will purchase the book as soon as possible.

- The pastor directs the members to the "bookshop" where enough copies of "A New Walk With God" have been stocked in anticipation of the upcoming sales.

- After the service, the pastor informs the heads of the cell groups that all individual cell meetings for the next two weeks will be based on specific chapters from the book. This guarantees that all cell group heads purchase a copy of the book.

- During the week, the cell group heads pass on the message to their members and "strongly encourage them" to buy the book so that they can contribute during the cell meetings.

- At the next church service, the pastor will openly ask the congregation to indicate by a show of hands who has a copy of "A New Walk With God" in their possession. Those who have bought the book happily wave their copies in the air and those who have not are publically shamed into buying their own copy at their earliest opportunity. Again, the thing to remember here is that this is happening in all the church branches - at the same time.

- As promised, the church services and cell meetings focus on chapters in the book and those who do not yet have a copy feel more and more compelled into taking a trip to the church bookshop where copies of "A New Walk With God" are steadily stocked up. This continues for two weeks until the "Book Review" comes to an end and just like that "A New Walk with God" may have sold over 100,000 copies world-wide - in just two weeks!

- Some churches (including the one with Embassies for Christ) can organise "Book Reviews" up to 7 or 8 times a year.  Nice! 

Personally, I'm not a Playa Hater. Whatever one wants to do with his/her money is their business. However, I believe people should be aware enough to make informed choices about what they are spending their hard earned cash on and more importantly - why.

The question I have is, is it right to try to influence people in this way? Do the ends really justify the means?

Joagbaje:
temptation is not external its internal. as much as its importsnt to dress modetstrly to Gods glory but. its not about temptation. a man lusting after a lady in skimpy dress will still lust after a woman in wrapper.

Jam 1:14
14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
� KJVStrongs

Temptation certainly IS external. Consider the verses below:

Mat 4:1 - Then Jesus was led by the Spirit into the desert to be tempted by the devil.
1 Thes 3:5 - For this reason,  I [Paul] sent to find out about your faith. I was afraid that in some way the tempter might have tempted you and our efforts might have been useless.

The devil also uses people to tempt and distract others and girls wearing revealing in church is an example of this.

Churches must begin to create more awareness of the distraction and temptation certain modes of attire cause amoungst the congregation and advise girls that God will not judge them lightly if they continue allowing themselves to act as the devil's tool.

Goshen seems to successfully apply the messages in the bible by using his own revelations and I respect that.

Joagbaje on the other hand seems to follow the messages and intepretations of another man. BUT, if it is true that Joagbaje is a CE Pastor then no-one should expect anything less. Because only a fool would bite the hand that feeds him.

So if you ask me who expresses God's Word more independently - Goshen has my vote.
However, when it comes to who I would listen to - it's neither because the Word of God is sufficient for my spirit and sometimes that Word can come from either one of these guys. Even Joagbaje believe it or not - although I find that occurs very rarely 

Joagbaje:
Keep your money, it's your soul that is Gods primary concern.

Is that what you tell your congregation pastor? I should not pay tithes, pay first fruit, pay partnership, buy ROR? I don't think so 

Besides you did not answer my question.

Since printing is not free can I charge for the ROR I buy from CE?
If the church expects me to give money out of my own pocket should it not do the same?
I know the church is not a charity but does that mean its members should be?

Show some spine Joabage and answer these questions truthfully.

@
If I join your church can I sell the ROR that I buy (sorry, pay for)?

Afterall, it costs money to print right? So if CE are making back the money they spent then shouldn't I be able to do so too? Or is it that I should give out of my own cash while the church itself does not?

So Kool!

ekpriobong:
Mr. Grey Beard, it appears there is nobody to address your issue well but  to me I think the issue you are bringing up for discussion here is bigger than you and is capable of destroying you.

Wow! I must be very close to the truth then if you feel intimidated enough to issue threats.

I'm really glad you guys are posting all this stuff about ROR because it keeps this thread on the first page and others get to read the whole thing and realise some home truths.
So keep up the good work guys 

To me it looks like a Personality Cult. And the personality is Pastor Christ.

nelojay:
i need help pls. i get these error message wen compiling with command prompt. "cannot find symbol" and "package does not exist"
i will be gratfull if we can talk on phone . if i get ur mobile my email is chineduchinaka@yahoo.com

Can you post the code you are trying to compile here.

THE TOP TEN BESTSELLERS ON EARTH
=============================
1. The Holy Bible
2. Quotations from Chairman Mao (The Little Red Book)
3. The Qur'an
4. Xinhua Dictionary (primary editor: Wei Jiangong) - 400 millioin
5. The Lord of The Rings
6. The Book of Mormon
7. Harry Potter and the Philosophers Stone
8. And Then There Were None - Agatha Christie
9. The Da Vinci Code - Dan Brown
10. Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince

Source: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/07/30/the-15-biggest-bestseller_n_664029.html#s115965&title=Quotations_from_Chairman

These are compiled by the number "PUBLISHED" as many Bibles, Qur'ans and Mormon Books are distributed for free.
ROR is published - but isn't on the list. So if you think the list is wrong then please take the issue up with The Huffington Post who compiled it.

Now let's move because this fruitless boosting about RORs circulation achieves nothing for Believers Loveworld or anyone else for that matter.

I normally don't reply to the likes of olakunlex, princejude, mabell and other diciples of Pastor Joagbaje but this quote below by olakunlex was just too funny 

hmmm, d agrument whether a church shld run as/or a business model, All ideas in this world that are successful are from God.And God has revealed it to his children.that is d same way great inventors like einsten are christians.Go do ur findings.who gave Joseph the success formula tht made Egypt wat it is 2day.

Now for the record, Albert Einsten was NOT a Christian. He was NOT a follower of Jesus Christ. He was Jewish by birth and believed in a "universal God" of sorts. But saying he was a Christian is pure fantasy.

Secondly, you said Joseph was responsible for making Egypt what it is TODAY?? 
And what is Egypt today I ask you but a country on the brink of civil unrest still trying to free itself from the shackles of an oppressive Mubarak/Western regime collaboration?

I don't think if Joseph was still alive today would want to be blamed for all the ills of that country 

dare2think:
@Grey beard,

The statement below from a fellow nairalander sums up everything;

'You ask people simple questions and suddenly they become deaf, dumb and blind. They refuse to answer and when they do they respond to everything except what you asked. Or they gang up and "scatter" the thread so that issues are obfuscated. Then they paste long daft epistles. Finally, they go self-righteous pointing out your anger and quoting scripture out of place in an attempt to make you look bad. '


It's about the only truth you will get on this thread and it's deeply sad.

(More sad is the fact that these are people who claim to win souls for Jesus. How ironic.)

Very true. Unfortunately, this happens all too often here.

How to recognise a false church

Does the church ask you to to give money while the only time the church gives money is through even more of your own giving i.e. partnerships?

^^^
LOL! Nice 1 Jo. So it suddenly becomes a 'foolish' question when you cannot answer it truthfully? But you can't deny it happens then can you? Well I know its the way CE works because my source is pretty high up in the organisation. Tell us Jo, what is your Church's quota for ROR this month? Or is that another question you would conveniently call foolish? Please!!

I know CE members are blessed in many ways by going to church but everyone should be well informed when they are making their choices. Especially when it has to do with things of this nature.

Pastor Jo and disciples - I can see that your ROR quota includes the Internet. Well I can only admire your tenacity.

Anyway, what is your response to the information below?

Grey Beard:
Is the method of selling ROR the only "questionable" practice carried out in CE? Well it seems not. There is more.

Let me provide you with some context. I work for a Business organisation whose aim is to maximise income and profits for the owners. The primary method of doing this is through their sales people who are given monthly quotas of how much of the product they need to shift at a certain price.

At the end of every year, we hold a big party and the top selling sales people are given awards and other rewards as way of saying thank you for all the money they made for the owners.

So what has this got to do with ROR and CE? Well, my very reliable "sources" have confirmed to me (and I believe them) that each CE church has a quota of RORs that they have to sell to their members every month.

CE churches likewise place a ROR quota on each of their cells and "strongly" encourage the members of each sell to buy up all the copies in their quota for that month in order for the church to meet its own quota.
Obviously the selling point is the fact that "millions" are being touched by this "word" etc, etc, etc - however, each church is under a unique pressure to shift all the RORs allocated to it as its quota.

Now, every year CE hold a massive party called the International Pastors and Partnership Conference(IPPC) and at this conference Pst Chris gives out Awards to individuals, cells and churchs that have distinquished themselves that year. The interesting thing is, I am told that the majority of Awards are for those who have contributed the most amount financially to CE for instance - There are Awards for those who bought (or partnered) the most ROR that year or for those who gave the highest financially that year. But there isn't a single Award for those who have won the most souls that year.

Now, there is something very wrong about a Church operating a Business model because it makes any intelligent person wonder if it is actually a Business operating a Church model.

As always, if this information is wrong and you can disprove it then I'll be happy to stand corrected when facts are presented.

Remember, The Fear of God is the Beginning of Wisdom. The Fear of Man is the height of stupidity.

Is this true or false (remember u r a Christian so no lying on making up stuff this time please).

Yes. Saint Maurice was an indigenous African.

Is the method of selling ROR the only "questionable" practice carried out in CE? Well it seems not. There is more.

Let me provide you with some context. I work for a Business organisation whose aim is to maximise income and profits for the owners. The primary method of doing this is through their sales people who are given monthly quotas of how much of the product they need to shift at a certain price.

At the end of every year, we hold a big party and the top selling sales people are given awards and other rewards as way of saying thank you for all the money they made for the owners.

So what has this got to do with ROR and CE? Well, my very reliable "sources" have confirmed to me (and I believe them) that each CE church has a quota of RORs that they have to sell to their members every month.

CE churches likewise place a ROR quota on each of their cells and "strongly" encourage the members of each sell to buy up all the copies in their quota for that month in order for the church to meet its own quota.
Obviously the selling point is the fact that "millions" are being touched by this "word" etc, etc, etc - however, each church is under a unique pressure to shift all the RORs allocated to it as its quota.

Now, every year CE hold a massive party called the International Pastors and Partnership Conference(IPPC) and at this conference Pst Chris gives out Awards to individuals, cells and churchs that have distinquished themselves that year. The interesting thing is, I am told that the majority of Awards are for those who have contributed the most amount financially to CE for instance - There are Awards for those who bought (or partnered) the most ROR that year or for those who gave the highest financially that year. But there isn't a single Award for those who have won the most souls that year.

Now, there is something very wrong about a Church operating a Business model because it makes any intelligent person wonder if it is actually a Business operating a Church model.

As always, if this information is wrong and you can disprove it then I'll be happy to stand corrected when facts are presented.

Remember, The Fear of God is the Beginning of Wisdom. The Fear of Man is the height of stupidity.

mba emeka:
^^^^in a nut shell!!!!!


Thats is the morale of the story- traffic into the site. Pastor Chris talked about the Mimshach anointing and he said it works (should work) in the life of every christian. It is the anointing for increase and expansion. He explained how satan had and still has the anointing (which gives credence to the reason "useless and junk satan inspired movies and music proliferate and thrive". Then he said something astounding, it works also in the life of the christian.

It works in his life (Pastor chris' ) it also works in his ministry and by extension it works in my life.

Mba_Emeka, there is another argument to the Mimshach theory. Here it is. One should study the Bible and make up ones own mind.

First of all, let us discuss what the “mimshach” annointing is.  Proponents of the word harken back to Ezekiel 28:14 and say that it was the same blessing bestowed upon Lucifer.  However, Lucifer (Satan) has corrupted it.  We, as Christians, are also able to access that same blessing and use it for our own increase and expansion.

There are a couple of problems with this.  First, it relies on the misinterpretation of Ezekiel 28 as being directed at Satan.  It was, in fact, directed to Tyre and Sidon, and a cursory glance at the text will prove that it could not possibly refer to Satan, as it refers to this entity as being destroyed.  Well, Satan has not been destroyed yet, so it could not even begin to reference him.  The closest reference is to look at the passage and realize that, like Satan, Tyre and Sidon fell because of their pride and licentiousness.

As for the “mimshach” annointing, I would steer clear for a couple of reasons.  First, it relies on gross misinterpretation of the scripture.  Secondly, it requires us to essentially be chasing after many of the same things that the cities who originally were corrupted and fell were chasing for, namely expansion, increase, and gain.  As Christians, we must be ever mindful that, rather than chase after an annointing, we have a gift already that is more precious than any “annointing,” and that is the original baptism of the Holy Spirit that we have already received.  In walking in the Spirit, there is more connection and power than we could ever have in a misinterpreted scripture.

FXKing2012:
Fact is CEC has helped so many people and has saved so many souls, that is a major achievement and I wonder why nobody is talking about that

I wonder why too? Would you care to enlighten us?

why focus only on money.

Why not? That's what this thread is about. Ask yourself how long you can afford to pretend that it is not happening?

Very Interesting story! Thanks for posting this.

Good point March Man!

Joagbaje:
CEC does many charity work and I personally do many charity work.

So it seems that the charity work CEC is doing is not even funded by the church but by seperate, specific payments from the members. That's very naughty.

WWJD - What would Jesus do?
WWJS??