₦airaland Forum

Martinez39s:
_{NB: this is a summary and paraphrase of someone's arguments.}

"An amputee asking god to heal him is stupid and an idiot... A human is no different than a chicken..."

bigname23:
I don't dispute there are other powers in oder religions ...I know sum guys who used traditonal powers to blow..but d Koko b say God dey..

hoopernikao:
Does he determine what happened to him afterwards, dies he determine whether he dies or not? His action (shoot the gun) is the only thing he determines still based on influence.

The consequence (from his mind is death) but you just said now that he has options to still live. That means he cant determine his end. He presume his end.

hoopernikao:
You are funny o. You will never see a free thinker commit suicide .

Suicide doesn't have a religion or tribe. At the base of the actions of suicide is the influence of this world. No legislation, rules, human knowledge can satisfy human's desire nor eradicate humans challenge.

At the base of all humans challenges are influences that control us.

So, whenever you point to crimes, sins, personal destruction don't ever clarify by human type or knowledge. If our actions are truly free, crime as small as simple as stealing would have been eradicated by now. Even with the best minds in the world coming together, no legislation or rules or scientific discovery has been able to eradicate this. WHY? Man is subjected to influences and travail in subjection to mortality of the flesh.

Legislation can only punish, persecute, destroy but can never eradicate the crime because no legislation can get to the root of the influence on humanity, only God can.

hoopernikao:
Bro, like I told you. Consequences of human actions aren't placed within their limits. Anyway you want to look at it. This is a reality of life. Man only works with what his mind can comprehend but their are more to life than humans mind can comprehend. That is how man was made.

bigname23:
Bros na ur own b dat from ...my own personal experience though I b hustler ...but nor b me hustle pass, sum of my guys wey hustle pass me never still live life pass me ..Grace has been the defining factor in my life...in words of Victor ad ...nor be who hustle pass dey carry first oh, na ur grace I take dey live oluwa

bigname23:
but it doesn't change the fact he is still giving me in dis messed up country..not just d country self ...from a rough background in a poor country ...infact dat gives me more reasons to b grateful to him

bigname23:
dey dere dey wait for miracle for immortality..my own is God is blessing me with d things I need in life...wen d time cums for me to go and b United with him..den I will go ...nd if nor b oluwa men for don fall for d street ...oluwa thank u oh ...in d words of 2baba..d breath of life na ur own.

hoopernikao:
All you said are still within the limit of choices. And such consequences aren't determined by you. Presumption is not same as realities. You must accept what is true and reconsider your principles.

hoopernikao:
Firstly, what I wrote isn't free but subjected.

Secondly, no atheist is objective in thinking, leave those lyrics. Objectivity is relative.

Whatever an atheist holds is still based on influence he is exposed to. What he calls right are based on what he knows.

I haven't seen any atheist critical in thinking that doesn't accept the truth of the scriptures but only just want to hold his stand for personal reasons.

What you called critical from an atheist is dogmatic that you accuse the church people for too.

Most atheist, firstly are standing on a ground of false teaching they were exposed to before rejecting the religion. The limit of their decision is based on what they were exposed to.

From my survey 98% of atheist I have seen, know nothing about the teaching of the scriptures, yet they claim they know it more than those who preaches it.

Even on literal level of the scriptures not even inspiration of the writing, an atheist usually suspend his thinking and objectivity.

You are a product of your past, present influence, hence a man exposed to wrong doctrine cannot determine a true doctrine because he never knew any.

bigname23:
Bros u smoke? ..or did I say anything about being immortal there?...guy abeg mind ur biz evening oh.

hoopernikao:
You are only hiding behind your thoughts.

The list I gave you there is also subject to influence and knowledge I am exposed to. Situation can arise within this scenario that my mind couldn't captured.

What I did isn't even critical thinking talkless of no existing free thinking.

Consequences of your decisions aren't left in your hands bro. Take that to the bank.

We have seen the best of students with the best for opportunities become a street beggar. We have seen the son of king beg for bread. We have seen the a powerful nation subdued by a common people.

You must look at life intently not on surface of thinking.

I told you that thinking through is not same as rightness. That alone should informed you that consequences aren't determined or known by our thoughts.

hoopernikao:


I said they don't determine the consequences, that means they don't know. See consequences alone can be a lot of chain of actions you never thought of.

A man decided to go into 419 believing the consequences is he will be arrested and jailed since he is not an armed robber.

He was caught and handed over to a drunk police. Along the way the police parked and shot him dead.

Did he determines his final consequences? No. What led to his death? 419.

In his widest dream, what does he think his consequence is? Jailed
Life handles our consequences Sir.

You could see that in all these, at the end of the day man is truly not in control of anything but under influences of his limited choices and his undetermined consequences afterwards.

hoopernikao:
Well, you definitely can prove color, but that prove is influenced by your surrounding, and subject to what your mind is exposed to.

hoopernikao:
I have explained this to you in two different ways.

See again below.

Idea situation: Jump from skyscraper means death.

Real Situation:
We have seen people jump from skyscraper and survive.

We have seen people not jump from skyscraper even though it is one of the options available to them in such situations. But we have seen situations where the jumping is neglected yet the man still died via alternative route.

We have seen situations where a man jump and got held up by pole via his cloth or other things

This should let you know that there is different between consequences from legal, ideal, or rule. Real consequences is determined external to the person involved. You will determine it, you can presume it, but until it happened, you can't ascertian consequences.

Hermes119:
What am I missing ?

Christians are claiming Atheism is a religion and at the same time are saying Christianity is not a religion,I don't understand what is religion ?

bigname23:
bros it takes faith to get answers from God, my advice for u will be to get materials (books,tapes) that will build ur faith..but personally from experience I can tell u God exists ..if nor b God men like us for nor dey alive 2day..based on wetin we don see for dis life..we nor 2 day pray like dat but we dey experience grace on a constant

Dtruthspeaker:
Tueh! I do no shit called religion. Religion is a Fraud and a Lie!

hoopernikao:
Like I said, we all don't determine the consequences of our actions. It is a limit on humanity which I am part.

hoopernikao:
Well, as wide as they can go, the consequence of such actions aren't determined my their wildness. And the intelligence of their mind isn't determined by name changes or calling.

hoopernikao:
You are finding a side way out.

What makes him not jumping from the skyscraper right? The situation and scenario will determine that 1st, then the consequence of the actions will put a final decision on it.

You can decide not to jump and get shot by the untamed killer in the same building, you can decided to jump and still survive whichever way. Like I said, we have seen Plane Crash survival even at high speed which to human mind should be direct death.

You must take this well o

1. Life places your actions within limit bro, that is influence

2. Thinking alone is not evident of a right decision. Don't overate it.

3. Right decision is likely determine my what influence you have exposed yourself to all along. This also is influence.

hoopernikao:
Your last paragraph is a big misconception common among those who don't believe in church.

Sadly, we all follow our influence whether you like it on not.

1. I never said you weren't responsible for your actions. It is your actions, your choice but they were determined within options and influence you are exposed to.

2. Your decisions though are yours, they are controlled within the subset of limited choices. That in itself limit your thinking.

3. Because you think before taking an action doesn't mean the actions is best or right and because you just follow without thinking doesn't determine the actions as wrong.

There are people who think unto destruction, there are people who follow unto life.

Don't ever feel critical thinking always leads to the right decision. Man's influence ends up determining how right you can be.

hoopernikao:
Is there a place I mentioned I don't believe in a critical thinking?

Read through through all my posts.

My issue is that the word critical thinking is so overused these days that it's already losing its meaning. For example, you can imagine you using critical thinking for free thinking. Nothing is free.

Note also that critical thinking isn't a freedom from influence but making the choice that seems right to you.

Sadly, I have seen the least people with the lowest critical thinking on NL claiming they are critical thinkers, especially our atheist brothers.

That word seems like a slogan now. I have seen the best of dullness displayed on NL by the presumed "critical thinking folks" than from those they always abuse of not thinking. Many claim atheist today to identify that he is thinking but dont know that becoming an atheist doesn't make you a wise person. Wisdom is learned and given. It must be deliberate or endowed.

I will leave this for another day.

hoopernikao:
He cant determined ahead of time what his consequences will be. He can't know and he can't choose his consequences.

hoopernikao:
GRIMMJOE

And it's very important to point this out to you. That

The one who claim to be an atheist
The one who serves Jesus
The one who claimed otherwise
The one who serves himself or
The one who think his thinking is free...

Are all influenced and working within the choices of life available to them. There decisions are based on influences available to them.

But note, every of this decisions have consequences and it's not determined by any of them or us.

You must always remember this. That your decisions even though are your decisions, they truly aren't as per influence.

Likewise the consequences at the end of the day won't be determined by you.

That is the limit placed on humanity.

hoopernikao:
No man can determine the consequences of his actions. You only presume the consequences based on legality and rules and studies.

But life has shown us that people receive consequences absolutely independent of their expectations.

You can determine your actions subject to the limit given you but you can't determine its consequences. Never.

The consequences I gave you wasn't determined by the accuser (the man in issue) but by the judges and circumstances. Don't let me starting giving you life scenario. You will fully understand that man truly is not in control of anything. I mean anything. It's just a deception to say you are in control. We are in a world of influence. What influences you determines how you see life.

hoopernikao:
I already answered you. See below.

Do you have choice more than (GO and DONT GO?) in your scenario?

Whatever your thoughts and decision, the outcome is already decided as choices for you. Do you get. That will limit your research, study and thinking. You won't think beyond making decisions between going and not going. Why? Those are the ONLY options available to you

Of the thinking is truly free, it will not be subjected to choices.

I belief in critical thinking, if that is what you want to say. But calling yourself a freethinker is an illusion at best. Let such word stay with the dictionary not in reality.

hoopernikao:

hoopernikao:
You determined non of that Sir.

People have survived plane tickets crash at high-speed

People have harassed soldier and get pardon by situations around it. Something as simple as the superior finding out you are from his village has delivered many, while others have not only been beaten but killed just for slapping.

People have lied in court and had 3 weeks of community service, while some have had 3 years jail, likewise others lifetime.

You don't determine consequences my friend. The limitations of your mind let you feel you can determine or know consequences, but sadly, the way the affairs of mankind is run, you have no input in determining your consequences.

I hope this is clear.