₦airaland Forum

spartan117:
Hmm, you've raised valid points. I feel their pain but I know that they have the ability to understand God's Word and gain knowledge (epignosis) once they are properly taught the word of God. But I'm more concerned about you because you lack this ability, what you need now is the salvation of your soul time is running out.

what ability? Ability to lie to myself?

doyinbaby:
don't Christians wear glasses.,go to hospital for treatment,take antibiotics so how is IVF different

why shld christians be wearing glasses? Did any of the disciples wear glasses? Did abraham wear glasses? Why wear glasses now?

spartan117:
Young man like I always tell you, you lack the requisite ability to grasp the epignosis of God's word. What you need now in your life is the salvation of your soul.

old man, you have nothing sensible to contribute. What you need is proper education. I opened a thread to discuss ivf and faith, you had nothing to say but to preach to me. Thousands of christians are searching of answers if not millions. They are childless and dont know if they should go for ivf and this is all you can say? You think this is about me? Shut up if you have nothing to contribute and stop trying to sound smart without substance to show for it

doyinbaby:
Yes......if after 5yrs of trying to have a child and no success do IVF..,...... Christian couples should be advised to adopt.if they have done everything possible to have children and still no success..... I hate seeing Christians in their sixties childless

was abraham not 100years old? Yet he never lost his faith. Tho he tried to help God. Dont try and help god. Without faith no one can please God. Start reading your bible and stop being a half baked christian

spartan117:
I would have loved to explain something about faith and putting faith to work on this thread. But seeing that this thread wasn't created as an Avenue to seek higher knowledge and given that most participants of this thread lack the requisite ability to grasp the knowledge (epignosis) of God's word I'll give you just what you need considering your current state:

Belief in Jesus christ and confess his finished work on calvary that you might be saved.

just say you realise you dont have a good argument. Stop being lofty as if you know anything special, if you do you would share it to help those who would open this thread. Varmoos if you have nothing to say about ivf. We aint here to talk about salvation

bloodofthelamb:
It is all about your faith and how knowledgeable you are in the promises of God. Like I always say, "hospitals is not meant for the new creation."

The new creation have a sound health policy in Christ. If you know and believe it, you will walk in it

if only christians know how devilish ivf is. They think all technology is from god. Ivf is the first step, now scientists are already growing full organisms in the laboratory, editing the genes of embryo. And yet christians are pallying with this demonic creation of children in the laboratory

awesomeJ:
When there are more informed friends and mentors the Christians take their influence from, who says hardmirror's opinion for anything?

that is why you have been unable to tell us what your christian mentors think about ivf

wildimagination:
I think Christian shouldnt board a plane when travelling, they should just walk on water,
Christians shouldnt even work, they should just get one burger or pizza from burger kings or McDonald's and make it multiply to a couple of thousand to eat for the next ten years..
Heck!!!! Why don't we just go to war with slight shots like david.
Look, using acetaminophen or sulphodoxamine for ur headaches or fever respectively doesn't mean u doubt God..or God never answered ur prayers... At the end of the day, we all channel our faiths differently...
Some pple go around with annointing oil, and chlothes prayer they call mantle. it's just a channel of faith.

oils don't heal, neither do mantles...the rod of Moses never did wonders,It's just a channel... Channel ur faith which Eva way u like...and if u are one of those that think we are no different from dogs, goats, salmonella and E.coli...and u wanna live ur life on chance as each day comes. That's still fine...because at the end of the day...the sun will still shine on both the righteous and unrighteous...

irrelevant. Children have life and life should be from god not a laboratory process. Do you know what scientists are doing now? It all starts with ivf, then gene editting then mass producing humans in laboratories. Seems you are out of touch with latest developments. Christians doing ivf are abusing the santity of life. Why is it just difficult to trust God and let him give you children. Or has it become too difficult of him that we now have to be helping God? Think and be honest with yourself. Since when has it become difficult for god to give children and yet ivf works when u cant pray anymore

CAPSLOCKED:

CHRISTIANS SHOULDN'T DO IVF MAN.. THEY SHOULD HAVE FAITH AND ALLOW THE WILL OF GOD IN THEIR LIVES.



OR EVEN IF THEY DO.. THEY SHOULD BE HONEST ABOUT IT AND ENCOURAGE OTHERS. CHURCHES CAN AT LEAST -ONCE IN A WHILE- SPONSOR COUPLES WHO CANNOT AFFORD IT.

THEY KNOW HOW TO DO THESE THINGS, THEY JUST PREFER TO BE CRIMINALS, LIARS, AND HYPOCRITES.

seun i think this is a good advice. They should be honest about it. It would help cut a lot of risk they go through covering up. Eg false prophets milking them, prophets sleeping with the desperate wives etc.

Royalroy, seun lalasticlala please lets have a wider opinion on this. Answers have not been comprehensive enough. Christians could be on a collision course with God by using ivf instead of trusting him to answer their prayers. This is a topic many families are battling with. Perhaps we can get enough scriptural backings for ivf and encourage those who are afraid to use this option and save their families

wildimagination:
I would have love to go into a constructive discussion with u about the acts of God and the reason behind it.but I'm just a man, I don't claim to know it all, and I will never reason what happened supernaturally with a logical mind.. I am a man of science , and I can tell without a single doubt that all our achievement and study and technological advancment came on template, we never brought anything out of thing air, we studied nature copied and manipulated, anyways that's story for another day..
And u are probably an atheist or something close to it, most of the time my conversation with ur kind at the end of the day is usually a show of insulting capabilities and a list of negatives going on the world..and that's not a proof of God's existence or non-existence
we all have our choices as men at the end of the day, and those choices have led to so many wrongs in life. but the sun still shines on the righteous and the unrighteous...like I said that statement has alot of meaning, until u grasp the understanding a tiny spec of God could become unraveled to u.

talk about faith here. Going for ivf is simply an act of unbelief. Why should a christian who reads about abraham refuse to endure and be patient with God. Ivf is an act of helping God. If why keep doing things to help God then we would keep eroding the place of God in our daily struggles and soon we would make God irrelevant. Some things MUST remain sacred and conception is one of those things. God is the giver of children, we should stop trying to help him and be giving excuses. God that allows a woman to give birth to a deformed child had a purpose for it, why should we now use surgery to correct it? Have you forgotten what Jesus said about that blind man? Using science to help God is making God lose his place.


Now honestly should christians use ivf?

sassysure:
Very self explanatory

no it is not.

sassysure:
Israeli doctors are among the best ivf doctors in the world.

what is your point?

Femsyn:
I hope we understand the relatively low success rate in IVF?

Being successful with IVF takes grace and faith in God. With God, we move mountains. IVF is not evil!

read my last comment. So why does Ivf work for muslims, hindus etc? I guess they also serve gods that moves mountains. Undergoing ivf is an act of lack of faith. It is same as helping god just like abraham that could not wait. Cant you be like abraham and not allow your faith to waiver because of small delay? And yet you want to claim to trust god? Abraham trusted god even till he was 100years old but christians of today dont know god has a reason for the delay and they prefer to take shortcuts. No wonder they never tell the truth while giving testimony in church.

This is a serious issue and it is time to exam ourselves if we are truely faithful to god.

Cc. Seun, mynd44 lalasticlala, obinoscope

wildimagination:
Please ..... Ur statement is a slap to prayer and total dis akcnowledgement of God..what exactly do u mean by prayer is not working? And decided to try IVF...

I am a die hard fan of God..my slogan with him is "i die here" wateva I get, so far I didn't do evil or sin to get it, for that is one thing God hates....oga, na God do am....

I am of the school of thought that God works in diverse ways...David brought golaith to the ground with stones but never again did he kill any of his enemies with stones in all his battles as skillful as he was with a sling shot.

some pple like classify some occurrence as God's doing and another not od God just because it didn't go exactly as u planned or prayed.

If u are a reader of the word...math5v45: He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous.that verse has a lot of meaning if u have the understanding..At the end of the day, all na God......

haven't u heard people do IVF and it doesn't still work out....someone prayed to God for normal delivery but eventually had to do the C-section...u now say it's not God..

I pity you...many pple didn't make out of normal delivery....
In my aunty's case, the doctor said her baby was really huge, thank God her BP spiked all of a sudden few hrs before going into labour making the doctor's decide to go for a surgery, for a first time mother a baby that huge will make normal delivery extremely difficult...
Humans are involved in all these process of life and that's error waiting to happen with humans..God see's all the angles, he knows the best...

2016, my bro applied for a scholarship and MSc in uk..he got admitted but never got the scholarship...it was as if prayer didn't work like u would say...but how his tuition and cost of living was paid shocked the whole family it was more than a miracle because the scholarship he was praying for didn't even cover his cost of living it's just a full tuition waiver...

He fed his prophet with birds from the sky, at another time he took him to d widow of zeraphat. why? Only him can answer that question...perhaps he wanted to bless the widow. Really, I don't know...but thats God for you...
That means u would easily say, if God want to bless someone, he should just rain down money from the sky, why use the certificate in the person's hand to favour him a job with Exxon Mobil...and then I realiaed, he could have just told Moses to stretched his hand to do wonders...but he still asked moses..whats that in ur hand?

lol. You mean God has to depend on scientists to give fruit of the womb? Dont forget that it is not only christians who benefit from ivf. Dont also forget God would allow some children to be born with deformities, if not for science that has made it possible for such deformities to be corrected, no prayer would have corrected the deformity. Eg. Cleft lips, conjoined twins etc. What then is the use of prayer? Why then do christians think God is the giver of life. Before we hurry in justifying anything here. Are you absolutely sure your are not tampering with the will of God by doing IVF, cant you just pray and trust God? Afterall sex should be the way to have a pregnancy not ivf where we are making the babies in the test tube. The egg can even be frozen and used after many months, the embrayo can even be frozen. This is like playing God. Do you know now the baby can grow and develop entirely outside the mother? Infuture how far would this go? Are you sure god approves of these? Cos very soon there would be baby factories and people wont carry the pregnancy again and this is totally unnatural. To be honest i think you are a bad christian that would give excuses for anything because you know you cant get God to answer you or you simply cant trust God to have his way.

You are no different from abraham who decided to help God rather than wait for him. If indeed you are a christian, you shld know the story of abraham. Why not keep praying and trust God than trying to help God. Why didnt God teach the people of the bible how to do IVF all these medical advancements has nothing to do with God. They are the creations of man, that is why it does not need the permission of god to work. It would work on anybody of any religion. If God's will mattered they should not be working. But you are too hypocritical to admit the truth

guccimilan:
There is nothing wrong with IVF .It is a scientific wisdom of God to mankind. It doesn't nullify prayers at all.
You still need prayer for it to work. It's just like other advance medical treatment like in cancer and so on.
It's just the level of your faith.

happy new month sir. May the month be one of exceeding blessings for you. Back to the Op. Do you mean people who dont pray would have an unsuccessful ivf procedure? How about hindus and the other many religions, does ivf not work for them? Any way why is it right to do ivf when it is totally not natural and is an act of playing God?

Burgerlomo:
Just prepare your mind for the worst to avoid a sudden heart attack

best advice. Lol.

crackhaus:
This one will probably cheat on you when she's in a bad mood...just a matter of time, she's getting there.

possible she is already

Getting a child is a big issue in Nigeria, and it is not uncommon to see christians most especially make a big deal of this issue.

Many christian families have been rescued through IVF and somehow they are most of the times not proud of it. They dont admit when giving testimonies in church that they had IVF to be able to conceive. Why is it that christians seem shy about talking about IVF? Do they feel God disapprove of it?
If so, why do they still do it?

Considering that it is natural for christians to pray for the fruit of the womb, do you think it is lack of faith to go through the IVF procedure?

Matured comments please

AtYourCervix:


thought I was the only one who noticed

even on like page 10 of a thread you'd see 3 likes and 2 shares as soon as he posts

lol. It is unfortunate we lack intelligent christians on nairaland to trash issues with. We have to endure the intellectual assault inflicted on us by these market women

themonk:
That was obviously a parody but you will refuse to see it.

Why not address the issues he raised.

they aint educated enough to know that.

Butterflyleo:
Eeeyah now the likes are tormenting you too?

Of course you have been monitoring this thread like a hawk to see those who come to read it and who like posts.

See how pathetic you sound. Your life is beyond empty and you can only fill it with a "non existent" God.

the likes are tormenting me seriously o. Lol. Try and open more accounts so u can torment me more.
By the way, if you dont mention me, i wont have to check who mentioned and reply.

Butterflyleo:
Wow

This is coming so confidently from a guy who is so sure God does not exist yet this non existent God is suddenly mentally unstable.

All this over a "non existent" entity.

I did say they reminded me of this fellow

i wonder why all your post almost always have 2likes almost immediately you post. Lol. You lack so much self worth you have to like your own posts? This happens almost every time you comment, visible to the blind what you are doing and shows how lonely your life must be

princfred:
Let conduct a live experiment, challenge and bet:-

The next ten barbaric terrorism in Nigeria will be done by muslims.

I can bet 3:1 odd to that.

it is their turn. Have you ever tot of moses and joshua as terrorist?

If there would be peace in this world, we have to start being honest with ourselves and deal with issues from the root. Is islam the root? Or religion? Or man's ability to claim God speaks to him and we refusing to question these claims. If we can excuse moses and the rest and believe God asked them to kill, why do we doubt others? Let us deal with issues from the root. Islam is not the problem

KratosCorp:


Mr. Pope, the real foolishness is your failure to grasp the difference between "what is" and "what should be".

Your abstract opinion of "what religion should be" has absolutely zero effect on what Islam is.

By the way, another manifestation of the foolishness from you is your pathetic failure to grasp that Islam is NOT a religion but a system of government that's totally opposed to and can never cohabit with western civilization. A senior bishop like you was once in control of the old Turkish territories until Islam terrorized everyone there into submission.

Just know that the world will loathe your memory if, in your nauseating PC, the future of Rome ever translates into today's Istanbul.

learn to respect other religions as yours. We all have people who have killed for our God so why are you hating on muslims?

flamingREED:
A layman armed with the scriptures
Is greater than the Pope of Rome!

Same bible i cited examples from above?

frank317:
Lol... see this kid


If u think when i say God i actually think he exists, then u think when i say God is mentally unstable, he acually is mentally unstable

Well, ur God is either mentally unstable or does not exist... pick one.
As for, i wish i can pick the two

nice one there. But i doubt he is intelligent enough to understand your point

https://www.nairaland.com/4532861/equating-islam-terrorism-foolish-pope was a thread that graced the front page of nairaland and flayed a lot of nerves especially that of christians who think the pope was being stingy with the truth.
Any reasonable and well versed christian would agree with the pope. Islam is a religion and one that is there to enlighten humanity, terrorism is not an islamic thing, it is a religion thing.
We busy ourselves pointing fingers to terrorists who in the name of their God spread the campaign of their religion on through the command of their god, a God that cannot be faulted.
If god is without sin, why should we call the revival of the fear of God terrorism?
Are we so quick to forget our Patriarchs? Have we so quickly forgotten Moses? A great man of God who destroyed and killed millions, wiping out whole cities under the command of God? Moses was not a terrorist, he was a servant of God, so why do we now call Muslims terrorists? Oh and after Moses came another Great man of God, joshua who continued the good work his master started. David and many kings of isreal served God faithfully in this capacity.

We christians must accept our bothers in arms and know they are not evil just like our beloved moses, joshua, caleb, saul, david etc. These are men of peace, men of God.

Islam is a religion of peace. Blessed be the prophet of Allah, peace unto him and all prophets before him.

Allah has shown us the light and we must stop being enemies of ourselves. The commands to kill is to cleanse the land of sin.

Islam remains a religion of peace, dont be fooled by the lies and propagandas that are just political.

Ramadan Kareem.

Butterflyleo:
Lmao I am actually laughing at you. First you say I went quiet and now you are responding to me. How ridiculously silly to say the least.

How odd that you cannot critically analyze yourself and see how insane this supposed "non existent" God has made you all to the extent of wanting to provoke him to act despite your premise already declaring he does not exist.

Anyway I know there must still be room left in Yaba psychiatric home in Lagos sha

give us some new jokes and stop all the noise. No one is fighting here. Better dont die young with all this high bp you are giving yourself, even the village clown contributes to the village. Just try and update your jokes thats all i am saying. Before you begin foam for mouth as if i dey compete with you

Butterflyleo:
Lmao you simply are too far gone in blindness to see your terrible mental state

See your words "We are only trying to provoke God to act"

You mean you are trying to provoke a God you say does not exist? Lmao

This is serious insanity on world wide web. Chai!!!

yawns* boring. Got any new joke this is already redundant

dalaman:
I disagree with Hinduism. It's just as crazy if not worse that the Abrahamic religions. African traditional religions are too crude and primitive. They seriously need to be refined.

they are better because they are not claiming to serve an all loving god that sends people to hell for not accepting that he died for their sins. The all lovingness and hell is a total deal breaker. Makes hindus better even if they are also stvpid

0temSapien:
while all names you mentioned, with the addition of Anas09, belong to the same caliber of people, the following monikers belong to JUST ONE PERSON:-

Damogul, butterflylion(leo, l1on),*naijadeyhia, bbfever and 4evergod, Availableisme all belong to the same criminal whose real name is Samuel Chinedum Ekwueme, wife's name is Lucy Ekwueme and son's name is Raphael Akachukwu Ekwueme while father's name is Samuel Onyemaechi Ekwueme. He belongs to Umudu town, Olokoro, Umuajata, Umuahia in Abia state. He once lived in Thomas Estate, off Addo Badore road, Ajah, Lagos. Currently he is on the run from FSARS whom his victim called Ubachi reported him to. We have his pictures, those of his wife and child. He will be 42 years this year 2018. We also have his account number which he used for duping his victims of 6million naira.

all of a sudden the butterfly is quiet. Lol