₦airaland Forum

Kobojunkie:
According to the Gospel of John, believing has nothing to do with confessing it in the way you are likely taught to think of it in your churches.
Demons do believe and yes, if you remember some of the encounters Jesus Christ has with demons on the gospels, you will also recall that said demons they acknowlegde who He, Jesus Christ, is. Believing is simply accepting the truth of a thing, or in this case, the person of Jesus Christ. And no, demons don't have the Spirit of God.
Please do not miscontrue Paul's message in Romans 8.

According to the gospels, believing in Jesus Christ is not guarantee that one would have the spirit of God. The only guarantee given those who believe is that they have eternal life. Eternal life does not come with a guarantee of the Spirit of God. No! Only those who believe, and then become followers of Jesus Christ i.e. they submit to obeying Jesus Christ's commandments are promised the Spirit of God i.e. become worthy or born again.

What was the role of the Spirit of God? To serve as substitute for Jesus Christ, is it not? While He, Jesus Christ, was alive, there was no need for a substitute for His person since He was there as their Master/Teacher/guide/counsellor/comforter/helper etc.
The Spirit of God was in Jesus Christ throughout His journey with them and so they had no need for any substitutes. He, Jesus Christ was there with His followers all the way so they did not have to worry about having the Spirit of God living inside of them i.e. become born of the Spirit of God. He anointed them all so they were His and He was there as there Master in the flesh.

After He departed, then His followers, whom He promised He would not leave as orphans, received the very Spirit of Jesus Christ(the Spirit of Truth) as substitute for Jesus Christ.
So? That does not change anything about their being His followers though and He being their Master. That they doubted does not mean they did not believe in Him. I am not sure what you are getting at here.
John 3 does not tell you of those who will end up in Hell. It only tells you of those who will receive eternal life. If you want to learn of those who will end up in Hell ETERNALLY, you would have to visit Jesus Christ's teachings on those who will be pushed into Hell. Be sure to note that those who will burn in Hell, will do so ETERNALLY.. meaning they have eternal life for them to burn in Hell for eternity.

This is all wrong boss. Let me state it to you in simple terms. The eternal life we have is the spirit of Christ in us. You can never become born again without the spirit of God.

Acts 2:3-4
[3]And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.
[4]And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

Anyone who believes in Christ truly has the spirit of God.

Acts 2:38-39
[38]Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
[39]For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

Kobojunkie:
According to the Gospel of John, those who believe in Jesus Christ, have eternal life, not the Spirit of God.

Everyone who believes in Him will have eternal life and will be raised on the last day, according to Jesus Christ. But we also know that not all those with eternal life will enter into Heaven, so believing can't be the criteria. I mean even Judas Iscariot believed and yet, according to Jesus Christ, he was of the devil. And I remember the apostle James did warn us that even the demons believe.

So unless we are to accept here and now that the demons who believe in Him also have the Spirit of God as their counsellor and guide, I think we might benefit better from using a different word, don't you think?
Perfection, as described by Jesus Christ Himself, is that we love our enemies(praying for them and not against them), and our neighbours, even as we love our own selves. Any other kind of perfection would not work since it is not according to the commandments of Jesus Christ.

Yes, Peter denied Jesus Christ 3X and they went back to fishing after Jesus left them but that does not mean, in any way, that they stopped being followers of Jesus Christ/born again to live following in the footsteps of Jesus Christ. They had already become worthy of being followers of Jesus Christ, hence were born again, even though the Spirit of God did not show up until some months after Jesus Christ left the planet.

Not all those with eternal life will enter into heaven?

Was Jesus lying here?

John 10:28-29
[28]And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
[29]My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

sonmvayina:
I am 100% sure you don't know anything about it. Genesis was NOT written by moses,it was written be Ezra. It was Ezra that created Judaism as the national religion of the Jews..
God is not a man or Hunan being ..God is the universal consciousness..
So there is no message there that remotely support a case for jesus.

The scriptures are what I believe. God became a man and died for man and rose on the third day. Believe this and you'll be saved.

Dtruthspeaker:
You are the one to Obey The Commandments for The Holy Spirit Comes to make it Easier and Better for you to Obey, By Giving you the Understanding of how to Obey and the Reason Why you Must Obey it.

Which commandments? You're talking from a works based standpoint. Relying on your efforts instead of the holy spirit.

Kobojunkie:
As I stated before, there are about 7 commandments that anyone who wants to become a follower of Jesus Christ .i.e. be born of Jesus Christ's Spirit, have to obey before qualifying. But none of the seven requirements includes what you stated above i.e. submitting under spiritual authority(church). That idea of submitting to a world-bound authority, such as the church of men, has absolutely nothing to do with any of what Jesus Christ commanded.

The only authority for all those who are followers of Jesus Christ is Jesus Christ and Jesus Christ alone(through His Spirit which He installs in His followers to take His place). And the only Teacher for those who are followers of Jesus Christ is, again, Jesus Christ, and Jesus Christ alone(through the Spirit of Truth installed in those who belong to Him). Jesus Christ and Jesus Christ alone is the only Master/Teacher/counsellor/comforter/guide/Helper in the life of those who follow Him. Any substitute is not according to His commandment and hence not according to the Will of God.

It'd do you a lot of good if you read the scriptures carefully. The church is an authority over believers. Jesus commanded the disciples to preach and make disciples. The church is not world bound, it's the body of Christ.

Acts 20:28
[28]Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.

You need to read more of the epistles and the book of acts. God has set people in the church as teachers and leaders.

Kobojunkie:
According to the Gospel of John, those who believe in Jesus Christ, have eternal life, not the Spirit of God.

Everyone who believes in Him will have eternal life and will be raised on the last day, according to Jesus Christ. But we also know that not all those with eternal life will enter into Heaven, so believing can't be the criteria. I mean even Judas Iscariot believed and yet, according to Jesus Christ, he was of the devil. And I remember the apostle James did warn us that even the demons believe.

So unless we are to accept here and now that the demons who believe in Him also have the Spirit of God as their counsellor and guide, I think we might benefit better from using a different word, don't you think?
Perfection, as described by Jesus Christ Himself, is that we love our enemies(praying for them and not against them), and our neighbours, even as we love our own selves. Any other kind of perfection would not work since it is not according to the commandments of Jesus Christ.

Yes, Peter denied Jesus Christ 3X and they went back to fishing after Jesus left them but that does not mean, in any way, that they stopped being followers of Jesus Christ/born again to live following in the footsteps of Jesus Christ. They had already become worthy of being followers of Jesus Christ, hence were born again, even though the Spirit of God did not show up until some months after Jesus Christ left the planet.

Do demons confess Jesus is Lord? Do they believe he is their savior. Anyone who believes in Jesus already has the holy spirit.

Romans 8:9
[9]But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

Again,none of Jesus' disciples were born again until he died, resurrected, and the received the holy spirit. If you look at it logically, why would it make sense for Jesus to die again if they could be born again before he even died and resurrected.

As for the disciples, most of them didn't even believe Jesus was raised from the dead until he appeared to them. Also, no one with eternal life is going to hell. It's not biblical.

John 3:15-16
[15]That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
[16]For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

[quote author=Kobojunkie post=95186573[/quote]We still have a slight difference. Those who believe in Jesus already have him as their comforter, guide, counselor, in form of the Holy Spirit. We can't talk about the disciples like they were perfect before Jesus died. Peter denied Jesus three times and the rest tried to go back to fishing. After Jesus' resurrection, you can't be a true follower without being born again. The spirit of God equips you to be a follower though you still have to play your own part.

Kobojunkie:
He was trying to become a disciple? Aren't we all trying to become disciples of Jesus Christ, when we obey His commandments in order to becoming worthy of Him?
The young man wanted to become a follower of Jesus Christ, which is what everyone who obeys Jesus Christ becomes, so I don't see how that is a wrong example to cite. After all, Jesus Christ had several followers who were not among the 12 even before His death... we know of about 60 of them.
While none of them had the Spirit of God descend upon them as He did on Jesus Christ during His baptism, that is not to say that the Spirit of God was not with them even while Jesus Christ was on earth. Jesus Christ did "anoint" His disciples, so God was with them, and this was revealed by Jesus Christ Himself on at least one occasion.
Not according to Jesus Christ Himself! Jesus Christ presented at least 7 commands to be obeyed by anyone who wanted to become His follower. All of those commandments apply today even as they did while He was alive on earth. So I am not certain what you are trying to suggest here.
I like to remind people that the letters that Paul wrote were written to those who were already followers of Jesus Christ(those who already passed the hurdles set by Jesus Christ for everyone wishing to become His followers) and not to those who are planning or trying to become followers of Jesus Christ(born again). After all, it is those who have passed the hurdle that become followers of Jesus Christ, according to Jesus Christ Himself, and not those who have not.

Becoming a follower isn't the same as being born again. You can be born again without being a follower. Following means being a disciple. Some of Paul's letters were written to people who haven't believed. Romans 10:8 is an example. Though I agree with some of your points. For example, to become a disciple after being born again, you must place following Jesus before family, money, etc. Once you submit yourself under a spiritual authority(church) where you learn the word and you go to preach the gospel, you're a disciple. Discipleship follows after salvation

Martian:
White-washed jew bastard can crawl back up virgin cunt he purportedly crawled out of. Love deez nuts.

But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart” (that is, the word of faith that we preach),

Because if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes and thus has righteousness and with the mouth one confesses and thus has salvation.

For the scripture says, “Everyone who believes in him will not be put to shame.”
Romans 10:8-11

Kobojunkie:
But one first needs to obey the commandments that Jesus Christ stipulated for to become worthy of being His follower before the Spirit of God then steps in to take over and guide one through the rest.

According to Jesus Christ, one first needs to prove oneself worthy of being His follower through obedience to about 7 commandments He stipulated before the Spirit of God then comes in to lessen the load.

Remember the story of the rich young man who had just one more commandment to complete in order to become worthy of being a follower of Jesus Christ? He has just one more hurdle... one more command to obey before he would qualify as a follower of Jesus Christ i.e. become Born again i.e. be born of the Spirit of God, but he could not get past that last hurdle and so did not qualify!

This is wrong.You can't cite the example of the rich young ruler. He was only trying to become a disciple. Keep it in mind that none of them were born again. None of the followers of Jesus were born again until he died and resurrected. As a believer, all you have to do is yield to the spirit and maintain fellowship with God.

Philippians 2:13
[13]For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

Martian:
No, your god as described in the book is indeed a psychopath. Did god become a woman and died for her to save her from the eternal judgement on sin too? Maybe "man" means humanity, but knowing that your god and your book regard women as little more than chattel, the question is valid.

On that same not, what happened to God the Mother? You have God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Ghost but no female representation. They'd rather have a ghost god than recognize the equality of women. Clowns.

Jesus loves you regardless ✌�

davidinchrist:
The problem is a strong lack of emphasis on "obedience" to Jesus' Words in the new testament. Take Matthew chap. 5, 6 and 7 for instance, then check how many preach "practical obedience" to the words there.

Peace with you.

The holy spirit enables us to obey Jesus' words. You can't walk in love without yielding to the spirit

shadeyinka:
The title should have been about the perils of those who believe in the "gospel of licence to sin through grace"!
The true gospel is the gospel of grace!

Exactly.

shadeyinka:
Did I write anything contrary to what you've just said above especially the @bolded

If there is any objection I have, it's about labelling the justification of sin by "Christians" as adherents of "Gospel of the gospel Grace". The justification of sin by "Christians" isn't the gospel of grace but a gospel of deception. How can a person claim he is born again without a CHANGE in nature? How can a person claim he is of Christ yet justifying SIN? How can a new creature exhibit old CHARACTERS?

Indeed, the bottom line is that the LORD knows those who are His.

A true disciple is known by continuing in the words of Christ. Anyone who turns back has never known Christ.

John 8:31:
"Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If you continue in my word, then are you my disciples indeed;"

1Jn 2:19:
"They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us."

So bro, I argue Not with you. I only stated what the TRUE gospel of grace mean. It is certainly NOT a licence to sin. It is a knowing that Christ died to save whoever will receive Him. It is the work done by Christ not me. I am not saved by my effort as it was Christ who died for an unworthy fellow like me and gave me His spirit by which I am transformed into a NEW creature who is NOT comfortable with SIN and who lives to please Him who paid the most costly price to purchase my soul.

Anyone who claims to be of Christ yet justifying sin and immorality is an agent of satan!

I've never seen any body preaching the gospel of grace justify sin. A born again person already has a new nature. He is now instructed to walk in the spirit so he does not fulfill the desire of the flesh. Funny enough, people who don't preach the gospel of grace still walk in sin.

Martian:
I love your self righteous depravity that makes you confidently proclaim that people will perish. A belief in a god that they claim loves people but will torture them after death for infinite time. Your religion is a joke.

God is not a psychopath that tortures people in hell. God became a man and died for him to save him from the eternal judgement on sin.

The Lord is not slow concerning his promise, as some regard slowness, but is being patient toward you, because he does not wish for any to perish but for all to come to repentance.
2 Peter 3:9

Martian:
Yeah, yeah,yeah. Everyone of y’all call unbelievers fools.

na mam duskrtino mudhah prapadyante naradhamah mayayapahrta jnana asuram bhavam asritah

“Those miscreants who are grossly foolish, lowest among mankind, whose knowledge is stolen by illusion, and who partake of the atheistic nature of demons, do not surrender unto Me.” (Bhagavad Gita 7:15)

Bro, calm down and read carefully. It says the message is foolishness. It means it looks stupid to those who don't believe. Nowhere does it call any man a fool

davidinchrist:
Okay, sorry to have troubled you: goodbye.

In passing:


1 Corinthians 6:9-10 KJV
Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,

[10] Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

Some of you once lived this way. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.
1 Corinthians 6:11

davidinchrist:
Friend, did you really get the main point or you just wanted to argue?

The thing is the gospel of Grace without Truth (obedience to the Words of Jesus) is a great deception of many a great Pastor and Church, leading millions to hell. That's the point.

I never said grace was out of it.

Hence:
*The Gospel = Grace + Truth (obedience) John 1:14,17

A Gospel without Truth but grace = Worldly Christianity

A Gospel without grace but truth = Legalism, Phariseesism (life under the law).

THE TWO MUST GO TOGETHER to be Balanced or Perfect, not otherwise.

Peace with you.


Harshirama: I think you might need to see this too; if not, just ignore. Thanks.

This is your idea is somehow. First there's nothing like wordly christianity. That's joining two opposites together. Christianity already means being like Christ. Maybe the right term to use is carnal.
Lastly, what leads men to hell is unbelief in the gospel. A

Martian:
Easter Friday to Easter Sunday do not make three days. A religion so asinine, they can't even do simple math. Thank god for ignorance and stupidity.

For the message about the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.
1 Corinthians 1:18

Martian:
Please, take note of how easy it is to discard with muslim assertions because "I don't believe in it" aka "Sounds like bullshit". People who don't believe in your god discard it with the same ease, "Sounds like bullshit" because like Zeus, Shiva, Obatala, and Xenu, YHWHm Moses, and Jesus are bullshit.

Rabbinical Judaism calculated a lifespan of Moses corresponding to 1391–1271 BCE;[6] Jerome suggested 1592 BCE,[7] and James Ussher suggested 1571 BCE as his birth year.[8][note 2] Scholarly consensus sees Moses as a legendary figure, while retaining the possibility that a Moses-like figure existed.[11][12][13][14]

Shango's existence does not mean that his legend is true. Moses possible existence does not mean he parted the red sea or spoke to a god on a mountain, or "wrote Genesis".



https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2014/12/10/was-moses-real/

Yet, outside of biblical scripture, there is next to no evidence in the archaeological and historical record of Moses's existence. There is no exact time frame for when the events of Exodus may have occurred -- with scholarly conjecture spanning more than half a millennium. Nor do we know the identity of the villainous Pharaoh in the Bible, cast in films repeatedly as Ramesses II. That pharaoh is famed for his conquests and building projects. But in their digs and readings of inscriptions and papyrus, historians have found no trace of Moses under Ramesses's reign.

That's what you believe. I believe Jesus died and God raised him up the third day.

So then they said to him, “What must we do to accomplish the deeds God requires?” Jesus replied, “This is the deed God requires – to believe in the one whom he sent.”
John 6:28-29

The message of the gospel is grace itself. Righteousness by faith through Jesus. Any other thing is not the gospel.

But they are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus.
Romans 3:24

For sin will have no mastery over you, because you are not under law but under grace.
Romans 6:14

Martian:
We didn't descend from apes; we are apes . Great apes (gorillas, bonobos, chimpanzees and orangutans) and lesser apes (gibbons and siamangs) are our closest relatives on the evolutionary tree of common ancestry.
The scientific method is absolutely the most reliable method for acquiring knowledge because it is an intellectual and practical activity based on observation and testing.

Now, back to our regularly scheduled programming.

Moses didn't exist? Btw, I'm not a muslim so I don't believe in it.

Martian:
We didn't descend from apes; we are apes . Great apes (gorillas, bonobos, chimpanzees and orangutans) and lesser apes (gibbons and siamangs) are our closest relatives on the evolutionary tree of common ancestry.
The scientific method is absolutely the most reliable method for acquiring knowledge because it is an intellectual and practical activity based on observation and testing.

Now, back to our regularly scheduled programming.

Science hasn't been able to explain or unravel consciousness. Science keeps changing but you think it's absolute

Martian:
Are you sure Moses even existed talkless of him writing anything?

What’s so special about Jews that makes Genesis and the rest of the Old Testament (Tanakh) nothing more than myth and legends? Sure, there are some historicity underlying some of the places and people but the fact that Shango existed does not make his legend true. Even if Moses existed, why should any disinterested person believe the far fetched stories about him? Please, don’t refer to the book to support the book.

Do you believe that some despondent Arab named Mohammed spoke to an angel in a cave?

Do you believe that a 19th century American white boy spoke to an angel who gave him golden plates of scripture?

Do you believe we descended from apes, do you believe science is absolute?

sonmvayina:
Guy,I understand the whole of Genesis,there is nothing in it ,to suggest any case for the jesus character..He is just a roman/Greek creation..just accept you have been lied to ..turn around and seek knowledge..

The age of believing is over, we are in the age of knowing .

Lmao, the problem with you people is you refuse to learn. Genesis wasn't written by Moses as a purely historical book. Read in-between the lines or listen to messages and you'll understand what it's about

sonmvayina:
You do the comparison and post t here..

Or are you telling me, jesus is just a personification of light..well then, the story won't be real...but a myth..

Check it out if you're willing to learn

sonmvayina:
So which of those passages shows the need for God to have a son ? Or refers to jesus ?.

All of them. The message of the gospel starts right from genesis one. Compare Genesis 1 and John 1.

sonmvayina:
Give me three instances where it was prophesied in the old testament...please..

Isaiah 53:4-6
[4]Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.
[5]But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.
[6]All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.


Genesis 1:1-3
[1]In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
[2]And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
[3]And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.


Genesis 22:8,17
[8]And Abraham said, My son, God will provide himself a lamb for a burnt offering: so they went both of them together.
[17]That in blessing I will bless thee, and in multiplying I will multiply thy seed as the stars of the heaven, and as the sand which is upon the sea shore; and thy seed shall possess the gate of his enemies;

Psalms 16:9-10
[9]Therefore my heart is glad, and my glory rejoiceth: my flesh also shall rest in hope.
[10]For thou wilt not leave my soul in hell; neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.

Martian:
Bhagavad Gita 10:2
Those who know me as unborn and beginningless, and as the Supreme Lord of the universe, they among mortals are free from illusion and released from all evils.

Bhagavad Gita 10:12 -13
Arjun said: You are the Supreme Divine Personality, the Supreme Abode, the Supreme Purifier, the Eternal God, the Primal Being, the Unborn, and the Greatest. The great sages, like Narad, Asit, Deval, and Vyas, proclaimed this, and now you are declaring it to me yourself.

1 Timothy 2:5
[5]For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

Martian:
I once heard a Rabbi say, “ Our holy book did not end with To be Continued....” . The Greek (New) testament did not fulfill any prophecies according to the original authors and owners of the Tanakh (Old Testament)

YHWH did not rape a teenager in order to give birth to Superman. Randy gods having sex with mortals is the province of the Greeks that created your Iesus Christos.

Deuteronomy 18:15
[15]The LORD thy God will raise up unto thee a Prophet from the midst of thee, of thy brethren, like unto me; unto him ye shall hearken;

John 5:46
[46]For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me.

sonmvayina:
How can God be the creator of heaven and earth and still be part of earth?.is it just like saying Steve jobs the creator of the iPhone is also part of the iPhone....make you think am nah..

Are you comparing Steve jobs to God. Can't God have the power to come as man? It has been prophesied in many instances in the old testament, even right from genesis

sonmvayina:
Why does God need a son?

God became a man and that is Jesus. The invisible God became visible to man in the form of Jesus. Jesus is the accurate representation of the Father. To answer your question, Jesus as the son of God is the accurate representation of God to man. Jesus as God surrendered himself to the wickedness of man by dying on the cross. God didn't kill his son, humans did.